If I read a book and I don't understand the word or place, I'll look it up to see what the author means/intends. Just to make things clearer. If I'm doing that every ten pages or so, sure I'll drop out of it because it's probably a book that is beyond my intelligence level.

As for the Lovecraft entry, I don't think you need to know Lovecraft to enjoy it. There are obvious hidden nods for Lovecraft readers, but the gist of it is on the page. You complained about not knowing what the hell R'lyeh was, but one of those quick "google" searches is enough for anyone to get it.

Character motivations, the clearer the better of course. But again, going back to the Lovecraft entry, I feel like you're asking WAY too much for a OWC entry.

"What infection? What caused it, why now, who is the ancient one? What is going on???"

His sister has gils, she obviously didn't before. Francis is mutating as well. They are infected with something, but this is just a character saying this, this is his interpretation of it. Why now? Is that really a question, you can say that about literally any story ever written. A boat went somewhere it wasn't suppose to and another went looking for it. Simple enough to me.

Ancient One...again, if you googled R'lyeh, the answer I think is right there.

Enough on that entry though...

The doppelganger entry is one that I think fits the bill as to what the hell is going on. Needs to be fleshed out more with why? Who? When How?  etc.

Quoted from TheUsualSuspect The doppelganger entry is one that I think fits the bill as to what the hell is going on. Needs to be fleshed out more with why? Who? When How?  etc.

Gonna throw Protocol 25 in there as well. It could certainly use a bit of exposition/motivation.

Quoted from TheUsualSuspect If I read a book and I don't understand the word or place, I'll look it up to see what the author means/intends. Just to make things clearer. If I'm doing that every ten pages or so, sure I'll drop out of it because it's probably a book that is beyond my intelligence level. As for the Lovecraft entry, I don't think you need to know Lovecraft to enjoy it. There are obvious hidden nods for Lovecraft readers, but the gist of it is on the page. You complained about not knowing what the hell R'lyeh was, but one of those quick "google" searches is enough for anyone to get it. Character motivations, the clearer the better of course. But again, going back to the Lovecraft entry, I feel like you're asking WAY too much for a OWC entry. "What infection? What caused it, why now, who is the ancient one? What is going on???" His sister has gils, she obviously didn't before. Francis is mutating as well. They are infected with something, but this is just a character saying this, this is his interpretation of it. Why now? Is that really a question, you can say that about literally any story ever written. A boat went somewhere it wasn't suppose to and another went looking for it. Simple enough to me. Ancient One...again, if you googled R'lyeh, the answer I think is right there. Enough on that entry though... The doppelganger entry is one that I think fits the bill as to what the hell is going on. Needs to be fleshed out more with why? Who? When How?  etc.

Very well put and spot on.

I can't wait till Warren addresses this, but my bet is that he doesn't...because he knows he can't.

Quoted from Zack Gonna throw Protocol 25 in there as well. It could certainly use a bit of exposition/motivation.

Yep, right on again!

Quoted from TheUsualSuspect If I read a book and I don't understand the word or place, I'll look it up to see what the author means/intends. Just to make things clearer. If I'm doing that every ten pages or so, sure I'll drop out of it because it's probably a book that is beyond my intelligence level.

Just to reiterate, this has nothing to do with a word.

Quoted from TheUsualSuspect As for the Lovecraft entry, I don't think you need to know Lovecraft to enjoy it. There are obvious hidden nods for Lovecraft readers, but the gist of it is on the page. You complained about not knowing what the hell R'lyeh was, but one of those quick "google" searches is enough for anyone to get it.

So the enjoyment part is subjective and a personal preference thing, so yes I completely agree. For me however not havening an understanding made it less enjoyable. Again it’s not my job to google what that is.

Quoted from TheUsualSuspect Character motivations, the clearer the better of course. But again, going back to the Lovecraft entry, I feel like you're asking WAY too much for a OWC entry.

Maybe, or the writer could have picked a different topic? One in which the whole audience would understand without google. The writer consciously chose a subject that some wouldn’t get, my only point is that it’s not my problem if I don’t understand it, and not my job to look into it. It also can’t just be assumed that I will get it the way you or the writer gets it.

Quoted from TheUsualSuspect "What infection? What caused it, why now, who is the ancient one? What is going on???" His sister has gils, she obviously didn't before. Francis is mutating as well. They are infected with something, but this is just a character saying this, this is his interpretation of it. Why now? Is that really a question, you can say that about literally any story ever written. A boat went somewhere it wasn't suppose to and another went looking for it. Simple enough to me. Ancient One...again, if you googled R'lyeh, the answer I think is right there. Enough on that entry though... [quote=TheUsualSuspect]The doppelganger entry is one that I think fits the bill as to what the hell is going on. Needs to be fleshed out more with why? Who? When How?  etc.

So who decides what is fleshed out enough or not, seems like a personal issue? I think this addresses all your comments on my questions about the Lovecraft script.

Quoted from Dreamscale Very well put and spot on. I can't wait till Warren addresses this, but my bet is that he doesn't...because he knows he can't.

All addressed.

Quoted from Zack Gonna throw Protocol 25 in there as well. It could certainly use a bit of exposition/motivation.

So can can happily say this but when I say I don't understand the Lovecraft one that is an issue? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

If you have enough prior knowledge of the subject matter to make it work or are happy just to go along that's completely fine. I've only ever said that that same expectation can't be put on anyone else, and if the writer fails to get their intentions across that is not the reader's problem.

I'm not saying your thinking is incorrect as far as being able to enjoy the story. I'm saying that you can't decide that if I don't get it or enjoy it that the issue lies solely with me.

Quoted from Warren So can can happily say this but when I say I don't understand the Lovecraft one that is an issue? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If you have enough prior knowledge of the subject matter to make it work or are happy just to go along that's completely fine. I've only ever said that that same expectation can't be put on anyone else, and if the writer fails to get their intentions across that is not the reader's problem. I'm not saying your thinking is incorrect as far as being able to enjoy the story. I'm saying that you can't decide that if I don't get it or enjoy it that the issue lies solely with me.

My knowledge of Lovecraft is extremely limited. It's basically zero. I think I played a Lovecraft video game on the Playstation 2 way back when I was a kid.

That said, I wasn't really "lost" when reading Beyond The Sea. I didn't understand everything, but I was able to more or less work it out. The big monster at the end is some sort of "God?" that the gilled creatures worship. Or at least I think that's what was going on. Could be WAY off, so take that with a grain of salt.

Protocol 25, however... the body-swapping came out of nowhere and there didn't seem to be any hints to foreshadow it. Again, maybe it's just me.

Quoted from Zack My knowledge of Lovecraft is extremely limited. It's basically zero. I think I played a Lovecraft video game on the Playstation 2 way back when I was a kid. That said, I wasn't really "lost" when reading Beyond The Sea. I didn't understand everything, but I was able to more or less work it out. The big monster at the end is some sort of "God?" that the gilled creatures worship. Or at least I think that's what was going on. Could be WAY off, so take that with a grain of salt. Protocol 25, however... the body-swapping came out of nowhere and there didn't seem to be any hints to foreshadow it. Again, maybe it's just me.

Not sure what I'm meant to do with this. You kind of just proved my point.

Quoted from Warren Not sure what I'm meant to do with this. You kind of just proved my point.

How so?

Despite me not having knowledge about Lovecraft, I more or less understood the story of Beyond the Sea.

But I don't see how anyone can fully understand Protocol 25. There's not enough information given.

Really not sure how any of this proves your point.

Quoted from Zack My knowledge of Lovecraft is extremely limited. It's basically zero. I think I played a Lovecraft video game on the Playstation 2 way back when I was a kid. That said, I wasn't really "lost" when reading Beyond The Sea. I didn't understand everything, but I was able to more or less work it out. The big monster at the end is some sort of "God?" that the gilled creatures worship. Or at least I think that's what was going on. Could be WAY off, so take that with a grain of salt. Protocol 25, however... the body-swapping came out of nowhere and there didn't seem to be any hints to foreshadow it. Again, maybe it's just me.

You are saying you don't know Lovecraft but are happy to go with the story because you understand it, but then you say you're not really sure if you do. "at least I think".

The body-swapping you don't understand either but you have decided that it needs clarification.

I'm saying you can think what ever you want about both those stories, but why are you happy to go with one but not the other when you clearly state "Or at least I think that's what was going on", for the Lovecraft one? Why can't you just make an assumption again?

Also why can't I decide that both don't fulfil my needs to tell an engaging story?

You seem to be telling me that because I didn't get it or at least buy into it that I'm somehow incorrect in my assessment of the story, sorry but that just isn't the case.

Quoted from Warren Also why can't I decide that both don't fulfil my needs to tell an engaging story? You seem to be telling me that because I didn't get it or at least buy into it that I'm somehow incorrect in my assessment of the story, sorry but that just isn't the case.

I'm confused. Are you trolling? Is this one of those internet troll traps I've been warned about?

I never once said you were incorrect for not understanding Beyond the Sea. I just stated that I have practically no knowledge of Lovecraft myself, and I was still able enjoy the story presented. I never really felt lost.

With Protocol 25, I feel like there should have been some sort of foreshadowing to hint at the body-swapping twist. It has nothing to do with me not understanding what body-swapping is. I've watched Jason Goes To Hell multiple times. The issue is that the body-swapping thing comes out of absolutely nowhere.

Quoted from Zack I'm personally not a fan of exposition-heavy stories. Sometimes leaving things up for interpretation is more fun.

Zack, here you say you are happy just to go along with things. My whole point is that I'm not and that it's not my issue if I don't want to or don't get it.

Maybe I'm still struggling to get your point, as you initially had no idea what we were talking about.

Quoted from Warren Maybe I'm still struggling to get your point, as you initially had no idea what we were talking about.

Oh, I think I understand now.

Quoted from Zack I'm confused. Are you trolling? Is this one of those internet troll traps I've been warned about? I never once said you were incorrect for not understanding Beyond the Sea. I just stated that I have practically no knowledge of Lovecraft myself, and I was still able enjoy the story presented. I never really felt lost. With Protocol 25, I feel like there should have been some sort of foreshadowing to hint at the body-swapping twist. It has nothing to do with me not understanding what body-swapping is. I've watched Jason Goes To Hell multiple times. The issue is that the body-swapping thing comes out of absolutely nowhere.

No need to call me a troll, I feel as a mod you should be above that. I'm clearly not, I've presented my points, and reiterated them several times.

I'm saying that I also have no knowledge of Lovecraft and because of that I didn't enjoy it.