Quoted from Sniper Goddamn, Mark, this is definitely not for the squeamish. This is really a great little revenge story

Whew.  I was happy when I saw that.  At least when I see stuff like that I know I'm not going to get bashed too bad.

Thanks for the good words.  I'm glad that you liked it so much.

Quoted from Sniper   The writing was very provocative and I'll give you serious props for that. It was definitely an eye opener. Actually I can't think of another script I've read that have both that and an excellent story.

Yeah, that definately makes me feel good.  I knew writing it that it was going to be edgy and most likely controversial, but I'm glad to see that people are also focusing on the story and, most of all, enjoying it and focusing on that it's a good story.

Quoted from Sniper   But it also might just be the script's biggest downside, and by that I mean you'll probably have some trouble finding someone willing to produce it as is.

Yeah, I doubt even that SWK chick would be willing to do anything with it.

This is actually a short story that I wrote, so I didn't have a film audience in mind.  But when I was turning it into a script, I did start thinking about if anybody would want to see this.  I think that yes, people would like seeing it.  Then I thought about if anybody would want to film this.  And I decided that no, nobody would want to film this.  So I didn't write the script version of this with any intention of it being filmed or trying to get it filmed.  Sometimes a story just screams to be told and I think that this was one of them, which is why I think I had as much fun with it as I did.

I can't wait to start film school, though.  I'd be daring enough to take it on.

Quoted from Sniper   In the hospital, Ellie asked Jenna who had raped her. I found it a little hard to believe that she didn't ask before. I mean, why wait for 9 months?

Cause Ellie was too busy with her work out of town, dipwad.  Don't f*ck with my flow.  :-)  Just kidding.  That was one of those things I had just never thought about.  I really liked the transition from Ellie asking what his name was back to her straining her neck to read his name off the server's floor plan at the hostess stand and I never thought about that little detail too much.  I guess maybe a cheap way around it would be to have Ellie ask "Just out of curiosity... What was his name again?"

Quoted from Sniper   What exactly is it that stops Ellie from killing Vito? Since she kisses her wedding at that moment, I'm thinking it's either her love for her husband (the fear of losing him when she goes to prison). Or is it something else, something deeper?

Yeah, it was her thinking about her husband and the consequences of what she was about to do.  At that point in an earlier draft, where she's looking at her ring, I have her flashing to her husband and then the time that she's going to miss with her brand new nephew.  The times around her family.  I opted to leave those images out because at the time, a lot of people seemed to be getting confused by them, so I was hoping that her poring over her ring might get the image across that she's smart enough to think about the consequences.

Quoted from Sniper   Why do Vito go into the bathroom to put on the condom? Why not just have Ellie put it on him?

Lol.  You're talking to a fish out of water, brother.  I've never used a condom before.  (The bitches I sleep with take it in the mouth or they don't get it at all.  Afterall, your mouth can't get pregnant.)  From what I've seen of guys, they seem a little shy and reluctant to buy condoms in a store, so I'm figuring if it's their first time with a girl, it'd be a personal thing to slide an uncomfortable piece of slimy rubber over their chub, something they'd like to do in private.  I'm probably totally wrong, but at least it's a problem I'll never have to deal with.  Any other ideas to get him into the bathroom suddenly without getting too far off the subject of the story?

Well, that was a fun little conversation we had.  Thanks again for taking a look at this and I'm really really glad you liked it.  'Captivating...'  I like that word.  Thanks for making me feel like I'm at least accomplishing something in my writing.

See ya around, Rob

- Mark

Quoted from rc1107 The bitches I sleep with take it in the mouth or they don't get it at all.

Smartass

Quoted from Grandma Bear Character wise I didn't see anything that made me believe he was a rapist.

Though I'm no expert on the subject, Pia, but don't date-rapers come across exactly like that?

Holy crap!  Is that who I think it is?!  Pia!  I haven't seen you in forever!  (I know I've been away for a little while), but I thought you had left the site.  It's nice to see you again!

Okay, right off the bat...   The rapists name is Vito and he's Italian.  How can you not hate him just by that alone?  

I have talked to a couple people who have been raped (my ex-wife included), so I agree that I am quick to side with the girl and against the guy.  That may be why I didn't really express Vito enough as a villain and Jenna not as sympathetic as I should have.  I guess I was just taking for granted that people would automatically view Vito as the villain that he is and side with the sister.

I do believe, however, that I was right to assume that.  I'm sure a lot of people who've read the script right away despised Vito.  I know a lot of people right away despised Ellie thinking that she was nothing but a slut in the opening scene, so I'm almost positive people were quick to see Vito as a brute.

But then again, I can see it going the other way, too.  I can clearly see how easy it is for a girl to scream 'rape' and the guy is automatically the bad guy.  I should think of something to try and balance the story out.

I was a little worried about how long it was, but I went a little LifeTime-y with the sisters' scene, so that added some pages to it.  I guess I'm a sucker for a little bit of a slow build-up.  I've noticed lately my shorts (most of them not posted yet) have been getting into the 20-30 page area.  Honestly, besides the sisters' scene, I was hoping this story would seem to race by.  I do have only a ten page draft of this I recently did for a director with a time restriction.  I'd like to post that once I see if it's going to be filmed or not, just to see if it gets a more smooth response.

Anyhow, sorry to leave so fast.  Thanks for the read, Pia, and I'll talk to you in a bit.

- Mark

Shouldn't really hijack a thread about your script but thought I would say Hi, glad to see you back around the place Mark. Hope everything is going well. Look forward to reading some new stuff.

The message was too big for one post, so...

Part I

It looks like you originally posted this one a while ago, but have since uploaded rewrites.  Assuming you are still interested in feedback on this one, here goes...

I found there to be a lot of story problems here.  Too many for me to really be able to go along for the ride.  Much of what bothered me were small details, but they added up to a large obstacle that prevented me from suspending my disbelief.

I’ll start with the big picture.  You’ve got a revenge story here.  When done right, these can be some of the most visceral and cathartic types of stories we can tell.  But there are several things that need to be in place for this to work as well as it could.  The first element is the crime – the thing that prompts the drive for revenge.  The crime here was not committed against the hero, Ellie, but against her sister.  It occurred long before the beginning of the story (9 months earlier to be exact).  All we have that this was, in fact, a crime is Jenna’s word.  This is good enough for Ellie, but I am always suspicious of the drunken date rape claim.  I’m sure it really happens more often than not, but there have been enough cases where the girl has lied to raise a nagging shadow of a doubt for me.  Further, Jenna didn’t suffer any lasting physical injury.  She has suffered psychological damage and lost her job, but aside from initially not being able to look at her baby at the birth, we don’t see any serious consequences from either of these demonstrated in the context of this story.  And the ultimate outcome from the crime?  A beautiful, healthy, baby boy.

Any one of these wouldn’t pose much of a problem.  But each one opens the distance between the crime and our outrage over that crime.  Rape is a horrible, painful, life-altering experience, but it is at such a distance from our hero, and therefore us, that it makes it difficult to feel it at a gut level.  I’m not at the edge of my seat, chomping at the bit for this bastard to pay.  See what you can do to make the offense worse, and bring Ellie (and us) closer to it.  For example, if Jenna were to die of complications during the birth, something like this would bring the injustice into more immediate focus and heighten the drama.

Once the course for revenge is set, we next go to the planning and pursuit phase.  Pursuit isn’t an issue here since she knows right where the target is, so this leaves the plan.  Ellie’s plan is to go get her father’s gun (I presume), put a handful of loose bullets in her purse, get a wig, go to the restaurant, hopefully be able to get a seat in Vito’s section, hopefully get a chance to get him alone in the men’s room so she can come on to him, depend on him to give up his job for sex with her, go back to his place, hope that he leaves her alone long enough so she can load the gun, drop her wig to the floor, then shoot Vito when he comes back, and walk away scott free.  So many issues.

What you are essentially telling us is that Ellie is an idiot, or so blinded with rage that she’s acting like an idiot.  The gun would be registered to her father.  If found it would lead straight back to her.  Why wouldn’t she load the gun before putting the plan in motion?  What if Vito’s section is full?  What if Vito never goes to the men’s room?  What if the men’s room isn’t empty?  What if Vito isn’t willing to give up his job for a one-nighter with a stranger?  What if the rapist doesn't put on the condom and just rapes her?  What if he doesn’t leave her alone to load the gun, or leave her alone long enough?  Why leave the wig as evidence (which will contain strands of her hair)?  Does she want to get caught for this?  Without the wig, and after a gunshot (or many gunshots), someone is bound to see her leaving the building – without a disguise.  This is an awful plan.  And honestly, Vito just doesn’t seem like that bad of a guy.  He may have taken advantage of Jenna at a drunken party (maybe he was even drunk, too), but does this punishment match the crime?  She doesn’t go through with it, so this does help us maintain some empathy for Ellie.  

But, if she had gone through with it, the police check on Vito, find that nine months ago there was a rape complaint against him, put two and two together, and Ellie’s in prison.  She is willing to give up her life, give up her husband, all for that sake of revenge on Vito the waiter?  Her motivation has to be much, much stronger for me to buy that she is willing to make this sacrifice.  Vito is no longer a threat.  Jenna is struggling, but she seems like she will be able to deal with it.  And nothing about Ellie indicates that she’s being driven to such extremes.

The final act of the revenge story – the revenge.  Trouble here, too, brotha.  She abandons her murder plan, and (by happenstance) sticks her finger on the sharpened paper clip.  Checks Vito’s toy box and just happens to find a pocket pussy.  She rigs the toy, leaves, and Vito pricks his prick.  She never knows if her booby trap worked.  He never knows why she did it.  He’s in some pain for a little while, and has lost his crummy job.  Just not very satisfying on any meaningful level.  If this was just a jokey, jilted lover revenge scheme this might work, but you’ve layered your story with some serious elements that don’t match with the final outcome.

Threaded through all this is the fundamental problem that your characters are being pushed around by the demands of your plot (not from a true character motivation).  You sacrifice a great deal of logic and credibility for things to work out exactly as they do.  Ellie has to play with the paper clip at the hospital, then put it into her purse.  Why does she do this?  This is just so odd and is only done to explain why she has a paperclip in her purse.  Why does Vito go to the bathroom to put on the condom?  Is he shy?  He doesn’t want the woman, who just said he could do anything he wants to her, to see his naked wee wee?  No, this is contrived so she can play with the gun and set her trap without him in the room.  Why does she ask if he has any toys?  How is this part of her original plan?  It’s not, it’s just a way to set up her backup plan, which she hasn’t formulated yet.

Why doesn’t she load the gun ahead of time?  So she can stick her finger and be reminded that the paper clip is in her purse, not because it makes sense.  And how does she know there’s going to be a fake vagina in the box?  There just has to be, otherwise the plot won’t work.  You see how all these plot requirements are forcing your characters to act in ways that simply aren’t logical?  The cumulative effect is that it becomes impossible to believe any of this could actually happen, which saps the energy and emotion right out of the whole story, leaving you to rely on the “cringe” factor to elicit a reaction from your audience.  You can easily do this in three pages, no back story required.

Okay, sorry if that all seemed harsh.  These kinds of stories can be very difficult in the details, but if you want to make this work, it can be done.  Like I said, if it’s just for the shock value, then don’t bother with all the extraneous stuff, just cut to the chase.  But, if you want this to connect with people on a primal level, it’ll take some serious, and considered, story construction and character building.

Part II

Format/Mechanical Notes:
General: You don’t need (cont.) when a character’s dialogue is broken by an action line.
General: You use “towards” way too much.  See where you can cut these, or mix it up some.
Pg. 1: You mention twice that her purse is “earth-toned” but I couldn’t detect the significance of this.  If it isn’t important, you should drop it.  If it is, you might want to make it clearer why this matters.
Pg. 2: I don’t think merlot or sauvignon should be capitalized.
Pg. 2: “worth my wild” should be “worth my while” (unless you meant for her to say it wrong).
Pg. 3: Is all the wine stuff necessary?  It doesn’t seem to be doing anything for the story.
Pg. 3: “large sip” is an awkward oxymoron.  To sip means to drink a small quantity.  Also, “lightly dabs” is redundant.  A dab is a light touch.
Pg. 3: When they go into the men’s room you need a scene change.
Pg. 4: The V.O. at the end of the page isn’t going to work.  Since you’ve cut to black it will seem that she’s saying this to Vito, we’ll have no way to tell this is directed at us, so it won’t make sense.
Pg. 5: “with every step” is unnecessary
Pg. 5: “sees her mother” should be “sees her MOTHER” (first appearance on screen)
Pg. 5: You need to adjust your timing.  If Jenna went into labor 30 minutes ago, she’s got many, many hours to go before she’s ready to deliver.  
Pg. 5: Who’s Angela, and why don’t we see her in the delivery room?  Why is she even mentioned?  And why isn’t Mom in there instead of this Angela person?
Pg. 6: Why more than one doctor?  Probably would only be one, unless there was some kind of serious complication.
Pg. 6: “A doctor pulls a small form from between Jenna’s spread legs and wraps it in a small blanket.”  This line is all kinds of awkward.  How about “newborn” instead of “small form”?  Is this doctor an octopus?  How does he hold the slippery infant AND wrap it in a blanket?  And do we need to be told it’s a SMALL blanket?  “With one final push Jenna delivers the baby.  The Doctor hands the screaming pink newborn off to the Nurse standing by with a receiving blanket.”
Do your research and get these little details right if you don’t want to alienate a female audience.
Pg. 6: The fact that you mention at the bottom of the page “little sister” alerted me to the fact that the viewers would still have no idea what the relationship between Ellie and Jenna is at this stage.  Are they friends, cousins, lesbian lovers?  See if you can sneak this detail in earlier.
Pg. 9: “dad” should be “Dad” (when being used in place of a proper name)
Pg. 10: Make sure we know Kyle is the baby’s name to avoid confusion at this point.
Pg. 11: “rubbernecks her head towards the hostess stand”  yikes!  “glances at the seating chart”
Pg. 12: “they gnash their teeth” doesn’t sound right at all.
Pg. 13: What does “almost brand new” mean, and how can we tell this, and is it important?
Pg. 14/15: A lot of location changes (bathroom, bedroom, living room, hallway) without slugs.
Pg. 16: Her dad would really have been proud of what she did?  Strange guy.

Again, sorry if this is overwhelming.  I think there is a spark of something good here, but you need to decide what direction you want to take this (if any).  It can be salvaged as a serious story, or trimmed back and made into a dark comedy.  I don’t know that you’ll find someone willing to film something this graphic, but that might not be your goal.  

Thanks for sharing your work, and keep writing!

Thank you Don for posting this final draft up for me.

Since I first posted this almost four years ago (wow.  that long ago.  really?), I've gone through three different computers and lost the flash drive I had the first draft stored on.  I wish I could go back and compare what the first and final draft looked like.

I don't think I've ever been able to say that before about a script of mine, that this IS the last time I will ever work on this story again.  But for this particular piece, this is how I want it to stand.

(That is, until somebody reads it now and comes up with a great and unique change that makes the story even better.  To them I'll say 'thank you' very politely while under my breath I'll be saying 'Asshole.  I was finished with this.  Thanks, prick.')

I hope everybody enjoys this one.

Hi Mark,

I'm going to read it later but have you read The Unconquered by Somerset Maugham? -it's a great short story, just great... Your logline reminded me of that short. It's not extremely short though, don't remember the exact page count. It's about Nazis and a french girl. Read it if you haven't!

I thought it's very good for a revenge story.
The only thing -  and she did all that for her sister...
But possible, you know. I wouldn't, but people are different.
One other thing - she will get away with it, right? Otherwise the wig tripped me, what if he phones police etc. On the other hand it's an embarrassing situation to have on file so - this might be your thought.

The last two pages were a slight bit confusing. I don't know how to "unconfuse" it though - I wouldn't suggest to make it linear because non-linear adds edge.

few minor notes (just what I picked up, these don;t stand on the way of reading for me at all):
p1 there's two instances of "table" in one paragraph and then the dialog have "table" again.
p2 "server'll" - a tongue twister for me.
p10 "work wouldn't get rid of him" - I understood it only later.
Somehow I didn't get that Jenny and him both work at Sully's at the very beginning.

That was a good revenge story. Thanks for sharing.

Hey Khamanna, how are you doing?

Lol.  It's funny you read this.  I actually downloaded 'The Homeschooled Boy' a couple days ago and finally got around to reading it this afternoon.  I haven't had a chance to reply to it yet because I had no internet connection where I was.  I'll leave it as soon as I finish here.

Thank you for taking a look at this for me.

Quoted from khamanna have you read The Unconquered by Somerset Maugham?

No, actually, I've never came across it.  You've piqued my interest in it, though, so I checked my library's website.  They didn't have it, but another branch did so they're going to send it over to the branch closer to me.  I should be reading it in a couple days.  (I'm always looking for something different to read.)  Thank you for referring that.

Quoted from khamanna The only thing -  and she did all that for her sister... But possible, you know. I wouldn't, but people are different.

Yeah, I know some of this pushes the logic a little bit, but I resigned myself to that and hopefully the story makes up for it.  I was hoping that the image of Ellie seeing her sister turn away and not even able to look at her baby would be the main catalyst as to why Ellie decides on punishing Vito.

Quoted from khamanna One other thing - she will get away with it, right? Otherwise the wig tripped me, what if he phones police etc.

Yeah, she'll get away with it because really, what can the police do?  She was invited into the apartment.  She had every right to be there.  Just like the police couldn't prove Vito raped her sister in the first place, they can't prove she was the one who put the paper clip in the 'you know what'.

Quoted from khamanna The last two pages were a slight bit confusing.

Sorry about that.  When I first wrote this, I was trying some things with timelines of stories and trying some non-linear experimentation.  I'm sorry if it was a little bit of a jumble to get through.  So far, I've had people tell me they understood exactly what was going on, then I've had people tell me they were confused, so I definately understand where you're coming from.


Thank you very much again for taking a look at this, Khamanna.  I'm glad you thought it was good.  I knew writing this that it was going to be a little offensive, but I'm glad to see that you looked through that and saw the story instead.  I appreciate that.

Now, I'm off to your 'Homeschooled Boy' thread to write down what I thought about it.

- Mark

Hey Mark,

Thought I'd give the new draft a read, having never read the previous incarnations.
I'm always up for a tale of revenge. Yum.
Heh, I'll try not to inspire you to want to rewrite something you want to put to bed.
Overall, I like the arc of your story, but the execution diminishes the effect.
This is similar to my issues with the end of "But You Can Learn to Play".
Ellie never reveals to Vito why, hence, he'll never know he's paying for his transgressions.
I understand she's protecting herself legally, but it's a disconnect for the reader.
The vengeance is not served point blank, almost in a cowardly fashion.
Ellie's a weaker character for making Vito suffer, but never telling him why.

You can tighten up this script and drop some pages from it.
There's some excess business not needed in most of the scenes.

An Oscar winning screenwriter said it best:
Get into a scene as late as you can and get out as soon as you can.
- William Goldman

Your structure and characters are pretty sound.
But not it's not firing on all cylinders and lacks tension.
It's like a bomb that never explodes, Vito is never confronted for his crimes.

Keep writing and rewriting! (but not this one )

Regards,
E.D.

Thanks, Don, for taking a look at this.

Aww.  I got excited.  I thought Don read one of my stories for me.  But, I'll take a read from you anytime, E.D.  Although, now thinking about it, whenever you change your avatar back, everybody reading this down the line is going to wonder why the hell post #46, is there.

Anyway, thanks for taking a gander at Pearl Dive.  It's on old story I wrote that I thought I'd give a technical clean up and post my updated e-mail, but the story's come a long way from what is was in the first draft.

Quoted from electric dreamer Ellie never reveals to Vito why, hence, he'll never know he's paying for his transgressions .... Vito is never confronted for his crimes

True, but also, what's really important in her eyes, was who knows how many more rapes she's prevented by what she's done.  This could be an Aesop's fable, with a very strong moral lesson:  Be careful what you stick your pee-pee into.  (I don't know how proud Aesop would be of that one.)  I think it's a great lesson in nowadays society.  :-)

Quoted from electric dreamer/ lacks tension

Hmm.  I'm going to have to go back and reread this one again.  From what I've got before from some other readers was that the tension was built up well.  I wonder if maybe when I was polishing, I accidently took out some things that I shouldn't've that got in the way of what was going on.

Anyway, thanks for taking a look at this and telling me your thoughts, Don... I mean, E.D.

Hope you have a good one.

- Mark

Quoted from rc1107 Aww.  I got excited.  I thought Don read one of my stories for me.  But, I'll take a read from you anytime, E.D.  Although, now thinking about it, whenever you change your avatar back, everybody reading this down the line is going to wonder why the hell post #46, is there.

D'oh! April fools. It wasn't my idea, I swear. ;)

Quoted from rc1107 True, but also, what's really important in her eyes, was who knows how many more rapes she's prevented by what she's done.  This could be an Aesop's fable, with a very strong moral lesson:  Be careful what you stick your pee-pee into.  (I don't know how proud Aesop would be of that one.)  I think it's a great lesson in nowadays society.  :-)

I see your point, I was just looking for more fireworks, I guess.
Just say no to unsanitary urethral sounding.  :X

E.D.