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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Scripts  ›  Your Golden Years Await Moderators: bert
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  Author    Your Golden Years Await  (currently 10420 views)
Don
Posted: May 31st, 2009, 2:01pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Your Golden Years Await by Howard Jensen (ColKurtz - Short - Jim is just one day from retirement...(11 pages) - pdf, format


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Astrid
Posted: May 31st, 2009, 3:39pm Report to Moderator
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SPOILERS, always spoilers................
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This is really well written, but maybe over-written? You go into a lot of detail, especially describing the store and condition it's in. Not a big deal, it just felt like more than 12 pages.

I read it twice, thinking maybe i missed something. It seems simple enough. A man's retiring, looking forward to his golden years, but then his wife, confronted by the robbers, has a heart attack. Eariler you thu in a little misdirection w. the medication.  That piece, along w. returning to the golf clubs and news paper just kind of fell flat. It didnt have the impact I think you wanted it to. Maybe i did miss somethin?

It is well written, but i didnt feel any connection to Jim or his wife, so her dying was just kind of a 'oh well' moment for me. Maybe if Jim's retirement was made to mean more to both of them, to bring them back together after some kind of problem, their being robbed of that opportunity would've had more of an impact.  

I also didnt get the book that was given to him. I understand it on the surface, but am missing some subtext somewhere maybe.  I do hope I've misunderstood something. One problem that I am certain of is the robbers dialogue. It was very cliche, cheesey. Otherwise it's well written and i wanna like it.
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Andrew
Posted: May 31st, 2009, 4:06pm Report to Moderator
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Col,

You always make such an effort in reading others' scripts, so I felt compelled to read yours - and I am glad I did.

Well, this script is an example of how the same story can divide opinion. I read Astrid's comments above, and where she feels no connection with Jim and Nora, I felt involved in what they were doing. The essence of the story is not original, however, that barely matters. You have written this one very well, and I like how you reversed expectations; I - and I think others may - was expecting that Jim would be the victim, and we were led to believe this was happening, and then on page 10, I saw exactly where you were going with it, which was nicely done. Regards the actual heart attack, I would personally propose a more dramatic ending for Nora. It just felt a little too understated.

Some of the descriptions were maybe a little extended, yet they felt very deliberate, and in tune with what - I think - you were attempting to achieve.

I can see where Astrid is coming from re: a lack of 'punch', but that's exactly what I liked. This was a very understated, sparse script and the small town imagery that you depicted felt right for the story being told.

The scene between Mary and Jim was done in such a powerful manner, and that stood out for me.

I think you did a great job, however, I think this one is suited to people who like something a little understated, IMO. Therefore, it may be a bit of a niche script... maybe. I hope not, 'cos I think this one deserves a lot of credit.

Andrew


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sniper
Posted: May 31st, 2009, 4:17pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Colonel,

What a fantastic reversal in the end. I totally saw the "other" ending coming - not this one.  Bravo. Was it over-written? When reading the first five pages, yes, but the more I read the more weight all those extra words in the beginning started to carry. I really felt for Jim, and I was definitely fearing that he would die on his last day at work. That's the benefit of a somewhat long opening that, luckily, pays off in the end.

Also, nice symbolism with the book - Jim ending up alone, shipwrecked so to speak.

I really liked this one Col, much better than the other you mailed me.

Keep it up.

Cheers
Rob

Oh, and, on the first page, "CALANDER" is usually spelled "CALENDER"


Down in the hole / Jesus tries to crack a smile / Beneath another shovel load

Revision History (1 edits)
sniper  -  May 31st, 2009, 4:32pm
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Astrid
Posted: May 31st, 2009, 4:51pm Report to Moderator
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I must rly be cold cuz the woman's death didn't effect me at all. Maybe this says more about me than it does the script? Scary! There is tho a lot to like about this script. It's well wriiten n it's obvious that a lot of time and effort was put into it. I also understand the book thing better now, so thx Sniper!
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n7
Posted: May 31st, 2009, 7:26pm Report to Moderator
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Hey,
The pacing and Jim's character were what really worked here.  I immediately had an image in my mind of who Jim reminded me of and I think most people who read this will have their own. He's a very relatable, everyday guy that you can't help but root for.
The pacing of the first few pages set up things well, from the feel and look of the town to Jim's everyday life. Too often scripts plop you down in the middle of everything too soon without setting up the story world, but this built it gradually and it helped in the long run.

The junkies were introduced early, everyone will see what's coming, but it doesn't hurt the story at all. Only small bit of advice would be to spice up the logline a tad.
A really good old fashioned intriguing read, with a somber ending that wasn't rushed at all. Nicely done!
Nate
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stevie
Posted: May 31st, 2009, 9:25pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Col, great to read a new short by you. I enjoyed this, it was very carefully crafted and thought through. Was it inspired by people in the area you live? It had that very definite English street type of feel.
I did think the opening scenes are over detailed a bit. This could put some readers off. You could perhaps just go from bedroom to kitchen then outside fairly quickly?
The shop scenes were set up nicely and I agree with Andrew; the dialogue with Mary was superb. It really enriched things and was easy to picture. Nora having the heart attack was a good twist. I didn't catch the reference at first with the book, but someone above pointed it out. Over all top job.

A couple of grammar observations: twice you had Tom instead of Jim at the shop. And also I noticed you start words with a capital after an ellipse; i'm pretty sure you should stay lowercase. Cheers buddy.



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tonkatough
Posted: June 1st, 2009, 2:42am Report to Moderator
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I enjoyed your last short I read so I was keen to give this a go.

Straight off, the one thing that really impressed me with your short is how exploitive and manipulative your story is at getting our sympathy for your characters.

The overabundance of small details with the first few pages is a deliberate attempt of setting up Jim’s “happy ever after” retirement to give your tragic ending more punch.


Plus, what an amazing observation by Sniper in regards to the book. I would never read that much into a script. Was Sniper right? Is that why you picked that specific book?


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Trojan
Posted: June 1st, 2009, 11:25am Report to Moderator
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Hey Col, I enjoyed the story of this one. Like others, I thought I could see the ending coming but you gave a nice little twist there.

I noticed the same things as Stevie. When I read the name Tom a couple of timee I had to go back and check to make sure I hadn't missed a character. Also with using capitals after ellipses and dashes, it may be a small thing but it was enough for me to get distracted from the story. Couple of typos and things as well but those are easily fixed.

Overall good job, nice story.

Cheers,
Tim.
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Toby_E
Posted: June 1st, 2009, 2:36pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Col,

I was halfway through reviewing this one earlier when my piece of 5hit laptop crashed... Just read it again and I've got to say that I really did like this one man, very little for me to actually say. There are very few scripts I enjoy reading the second time as much as I did the first, but this is one of them.

I didn't have any problems with your descriptions, in fact I actually liked them. Sure, you describe things in lots of detail, but you managed to paint a very vivid image of the settings in my head. You really nailed the small town British feel. Have you ever been to the Isle of Wight? The locations really reminded me of a few towns there.

One thing I noticed: You say that all the books cost 3.50 euros which kind of threw me off location wise, as I guessed it was set in England. But then the junkie's use "quid" in relation to Jim's earnings, which is an English phrase. Nothing too big, but as an English lad, it confused me a little.

But yeah, this was a very good script man. The junkie robbery was a little predictable, but I didn't predict the actual ending of the script, so congrats there. The pacing of the script was also superb. It was perfect length; You didn't rush along, which allowed you to create real empathy for Jim.

So yeah, congrats here. This is easily my favourite script of yours. Keep up the good work.

Toby


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JamminGirl
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It was a decent read. I didn't see the twist the other folks were referring to though. he's still going along with the trip despite his wife's death? I don't see a major problem with this. Some folks might want to get away from the memories and in truth, it's really a new life awaiting him.


Family Picnic 10 pages.

After the Trade 3 pages

by T. Jasmine Hylton
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Colkurtz8
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First off, thanks to everybody who has taken the time and effort to read and feed this, both positive and negative, its all very much appreciated. A friend gave me some excellent ideas when knocking this into shape so he must take some of the credit. I’ll try and answer your queries, problems and suggestions the best I can and hopefully clear up a few issues one or two may have with it.

Astrid

Although you didn’t particularly like it, its great to hear your comments, thank you.

Yeah, you could say it is a little overwritten in parts but as Sniper pointed it out as it was my intention to give added weight to these details, to build Jim’s character, emphasise his morning routine, the dilapidated shop, etc.

Sorry you didn’t feel anything for Jim when his wife died. Or the different symbols of a supposed enjoyable retirement lying in wait for them. The reason why I showed the paper with his shop in the for sale section was to suggest that he might yet take the store off the market now that Nora isn’t around to enjoy his retirement with or at least give the impression that he still has an opportunity to do so. I tried to give the impression during the piece (especially with Mary’s scene) that Jim, even though is looking forward to his “Golden Years” will still miss the shop. He is doing it primarily for Nora so he can look after her properly given her poor state of health. Of course, age and lack of business are also contributing factors in him reaching this decision.

“Maybe if Jim's retirement was made to mean more to both of them, to bring them back together after some kind of problem, their being robbed of that opportunity would've had more of an impact.” – As I explained above, Jim is looking to the retirement as a time where he can look after his ailing wife properly, spend more time together and of course take her on that cruise…which he never gets a chance to even tell her.

One problem that I am certain of is the robbers dialogue. It was very cliche, cheesey. Otherwise it's well written and i wanna like it – Maybe the co-operation line could go. I was going for a smash and grab type robbery. They’re junkies after all, which means more than likely part time petty thieves, desperate for their next fix, so its desperation stakes, a quick in and out. I kept their dialogue to a minimum for the very pitfall you’ve mentioned. I mean what do a couple of suffering dope fiends say to one another when planning to hit a place?

Again thanks for your comments, a pity in didn’t work for you but that’s the thing, it’ll work for some and not for others. I resigned myself long ago to the fact that you simply can’t please them all in this business.

Andrew, Sniper, Nate.

Thanks for the positive comments, fellas. You all seem to get what I was going for in different ways, which I’m pleased about. What I’m most encouraged by is that you all liked the slow build up and recognised why I chose to go that way with it.

Andrew - “Regards the actual heart attack, I would personally propose a more dramatic ending for Nora. It just felt a little too understated.” – A fair point, I did struggle with that inter cutting of scenes in trying to create some drama, I’ll give it another look.

Sniper - “Also, nice symbolism with the book - Jim ending up alone, shipwrecked so to speak.” – Bang on, my friend.

The cruise they had intended on going on too was also to give the impression that they were embarking on an adventure of their own, unfortunately its not going to happen now.

Also Robinson Crusoe is generally accepted as the first printed book in English for mass distrbution. It could hold a special place in an avid reader’s collection, the original print especially. Not a valuable collectors item or anything, one can probably get it on amazon for a normal price nowadays, it’s just the novelty of it I suppose. It’s a cool cover too, probably the most descriptive one you’ll ever see, practically a first page! Check it out.

Good catch, its actually spelt “calendar” though not "Calander" as I spelt it or "Calender as you suggested. It went undetected on Word cause it’s all in capitals.

Nate - “Only small bit of advice would be to spice up the logline a tad.” – Like most will say, loglines are not my strongest aspect. I didn’t want to give too much away so I went down the short and sweet route.  


Steve, Trojen, Tonka


Thanks for the read, lads, glad you liked it.

Steve - No it’s not based on anybody in particular, but I think most people will know a Jim type character, or have come across one in their life.

I was actually thinking more along the lines of an small Irish town but an English one would do too, whichever feels right for the reader.

“I did think the opening scenes are over detailed a bit. This could put some readers off. You could perhaps just go from bedroom to kitchen then outside fairly quickly?” – No I’ll be leaving that as it is, and I’ve explained above my reasoning to do so. If people can’t hold concentration for only a couple of pages while I try and build up a character and situation then I must be in the wrong game here.

Yeah, his name used to be Tom, but I changed it at the last minute (I know, another boring name)

I spotted one when Peter watches him leave the sign out, can you tell me where the other one(s) are, please.

“And also I noticed you start words with a capital after an ellipse; i'm pretty sure you should stay lowercase.” – I think it depends, if there is a gap between one sentence and the next, it should be capitalised, right? Now if it’s a word that’s spaced at the end of a sentence, or wherever within the line, then it will be lower case which is what I abide by. I’ll check it out. If anyone knows the exact rules here, let us know, cheers.

Tonka - “Is that why you picked that specific book?” – Yeah, in part…Not much gets past the Dane, eh! I explained the other significance’s of the book above.

Trojen - “Also with using capitals after ellipses and dashes, it may be a small thing but it was enough for me to get distracted from the story”
-- Yeah the ellipses I addressed with Steve above, not so sure on the dashes, again if someone knows the protocol here, grace us with your knowledge, thanks.

“Couple of typos and things as well but those are easily fixed.” -- Besides the Tom mix up and calendar spelling, did you find many others??

Toby, Pia and JamminGirl

Thanks for taking the time, ladies and gent.

Toby - Yeah, a small English or Irish (that’s why I went for the Euro currency) town is what I was aiming for. No, I’ve never been to the Isle of Wight, just scene the footage from the festivals there.

quid" in relation to Jim's earnings, which is an English phrase – “Quid” is used extensively in Ireland too, and carries the same meaning.

“The junkie robbery was a little predictable” – As I said, I was going for a rushed smash and grab operation. I mean, its 2 young twenty something’s against a man in his late 60’s, was it ever going to go any other way? I do see your point though and Andrew made a similar comment so I might reconsider it.

Pia – Always good to hear your thoughts, I’m happy you enjoyed it.

“Who’s Tom” – As highlighted above, it was a previous name I had for Jim. One or two slipped under the radar during the proof reads.

“I guess the book title was good. Going on a cruise, ending up all alone, stranded...” – Yep, like Sniper you made the right connection.

JamminGirl – To be honest I’m not sure what you're getting at in your analysis here.

Firstly, “didn't see the twist the other folks were referring to though” – I sequenced it in such a way at the beginning that we think the medication is for Jim. Thus there is an impending doom hanging over the day that something horrible is going to happen to him…but in reality they are Nora’s tablets, which is revealed in the closing scene, the bottle on her bedside press. The glass tumbler beside it that Jim had filled that morning was for his wife not him as we were led to believe.

“he's still going along with the trip despite his wife's death?” – I seriously doubt that.

“I don't see a major problem with this. Some folks might want to get away from the memories and in truth, it's really a new life awaiting him.” – True, a new life does await him, except he thought he’d be spending it with his wife, instead of alone.

That’s why I have the advert on the paper at the end detailing that the shop is still for sale, maybe he could re-open it sometime in the future. After all, it was for his wife’s welfare that he initially gave it up…among other things.


Much respect again for the reads, people. Its why I put stuff up here, makes it all worthwhile to hear intelligent and thoughtful remarks like these, good, bad or indifferent.

Keep them coming, thank you.

Col.


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grademan
Posted: June 2nd, 2009, 10:17am Report to Moderator
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Great set up and description. I was a little less emotionally involved with Nora's tragedy but I did feel the effect on Jim which I suppose was the point. Oh, "The place is quite" should be "...quiet."  Nothing more to add to the thoughtful reviews above.

Gary
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harrietb
Posted: June 2nd, 2009, 11:16am Report to Moderator
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I found this to be well written and touching. We didn't get to see much of Nora and Jim together yet know that their relationship was close by little details, such as her making the sale sign to help him, and the ladies’ greeting to Jim, showing that Nora talked eagerly of spending time with Jim on his retirement. Then, of course, his plans, the surprise cruise that Nora she was sadly unaware of. Very nice indeed. The build-up to the big day was such that it's really very moving at the end to see Jim return home without her. All those plans and all those days in the calendar now in front of him? Heartbreaking.


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sniper
Posted: June 2nd, 2009, 11:19am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Colkurtz8
Good catch, its actually spelt "calendar" though not "Calander" as I spelt it or "Calender as you suggested. It went undetected on Word cause it's all in capitals.

Jeez, that's embarrassing - I couldn't even correct you right  


Down in the hole / Jesus tries to crack a smile / Beneath another shovel load
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JamminGirl
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I didn't analyze. I just commented. The pills for his wife still didn't make it a twist, for me. It just explained why she could've died like that. I see the tale is a sorrowful one. It was a decent read.


Family Picnic 10 pages.

After the Trade 3 pages

by T. Jasmine Hylton
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rendevous
Posted: June 2nd, 2009, 11:47am Report to Moderator
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This was enjoyable. The tone was right thoughout, an almost novelistic style which I found refreshing. I felt the characters were well sketched, the dialogue was good.


*** SPOILERS ***


The only gripe is the junkies were a bit too predictable IMHO. I hoped one of them might do or say something to surprise. Not a big deal but it's the only thing I could see that could improve.

I liked the ending a lot. The Everything Must Go bit worked well too. I could hear that Manics song as I read.


Out Of Character - updated


New Used Car

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michel
Posted: June 2nd, 2009, 3:39pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Col,

A nice and sad story. But I had to thank you twice about it:

The first thank is about the story. It was touching and you made a great script.

The second one is you gave me an idea for another script and I bow before you for that. You even gave me the title: "The firsrt day day of the rest of my life" and please, believe me, there is no question of plagiarism.  

Hope you don't mind.

Thank you anyway. It was a great moment.

Sorry, one last thing. On page 2 It shouldn't be "€3:50" but "3€50".

Michel


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jayrex
Posted: June 2nd, 2009, 4:01pm Report to Moderator
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Hello Col,

An interesting story.  I must admit I almost never got the ending.  I didn't know much of the story of Robinson Crusoe.  Plus, without Sniper's comment, I probably would've ended up ignorant.  I now see what you were getting at.

I'd watch the 'is' & 'are' words.  Makes for a slow read.  And drop the repeated INT. bit of the slugs.  One room after another still makes it internally.

All the best,


Javier


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Astrid
Posted: June 2nd, 2009, 4:10pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text

Again thanks for your comments, a pity in didn't work for you but that's the thing, it'll work for some and not for others. I resigned myself long ago to the fact that you simply can't please them all in this business.


colkurtz8,

It didn't work for me becuase of me, not because of it. After reading everone's reviews I see that I didn't bring all teh little details, the subtle things that gave the characters and story meaning, together. So for that i am sorry. I did want to like it. There was something about it that I liked. I just didn't get it. I do now.  
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Colkurtz8
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Grademan

Thanks for the read. Good catch with "quite" too, rather dumb on my part its fair to say.

Harrietb -- Lovely little passage, I'm humbled, thank you. You hit the nail on the head in your summation of their relationship. I'm delighted you understand the various subtle, unsaid connections between them, cheers.

Sniper -- Its cool, bud, you brought it to my attention as it was incorrect anyway, thanks.

JamminGirl - "I didn't analyze. I just commented. The pills for his wife still didn't make it a twist, for me. It just explained why she could've died like that. I see the tale is a sorrowful one. It was a decent read."

-- Sorry I misinterpreted you. However I don't understand how the pills being for Nora instead of Jim didn't come as a surprise to you, as I gave the impression in the opening scenes that the medication was for him (Picking up the bottle and filling the tumbler with water) So the audience is expecting him to kick the bucket.

Glad you enjoyed it all the same, I appreciate you taking the time to read and comment on it.

Rendez-Vous - I appreciate your comments, yeah a few are saying that about the break in, alright. I'm actually in the process of completing a new draft with that part altered, Ill be putting it up in a few days, take a look if you get a chance.

If you have anything done yourself on here let me know I'll be more than happy to give it a read.

Michel - Great to hear your comments, glad to be of service. Of course I don't mind if you use that line, its not exactly original anyway. It has been knocked around for generations by people like me trying their utmost to sound intelligent I look forward to seeing what you do with it.

Good catch with the money I actually spotted it yesterday when finishing the new draft. I assume its a typo on your part as it should be €3.50 instead of the time I had written down "€3:50". Thanks again, Michel.

Jayrex - I admire your terse, direct style as I'm constantly trying to pair down my own writing,(like everyone else) so your advice is much appreciated and more importantly taken on board, cheers.

Astrid - Thats great, I'm happy you understand it now, thanks for expressing your thoughts. You did made some interesting points in your original post all the same.

Thanks again for the reads and perceptive comments, everyone. Mucho respecto


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rendevous
Posted: June 4th, 2009, 11:03am Report to Moderator
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Col, you're welcome. Stop spelling my name correctly! I'll keep an eye out for the new draft. I can imagine someone picking this up to film. A small cast, a few locations and a good plot.
I thought if the junkie(s) had an unexpected characteristic it would add to it. Perhaps something thought would catch him or them out, if you follow my idea. Maybe not.
I've submitted a piece so it'll be in the pipeline. A read from you would be greatly appreciated.


Out Of Character - updated


New Used Car

Green

Right Back

The Deuce - OWC - now on STS

Other scripts here
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James R
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Hey, Col. How are things?

A sweet and sad story, a real tear-jerker. And a great twist with Jim and Mary.

P.1 Why would Jim glance at his watch if he had just turned off his alarm clock? Wouldn't he know what time his alarm was set for?

p.3 Tom appears from nowhere (supposed to be Jim?) and again on p.4.

Well done, good pace. A quick read but very effective. This could be filmed very inexpensively, I expect you might hear from somebody on it.

James



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Colkurtz8
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James

Whats up, man. Thanks for the read, glad you enjoyed it.

Your dead right about the alarm and watch, its changed.

Yeah, Jim's name was originally Tom (till I realized the main character of "Clubcard" was Thomas) Sloppy proof reading on my part.

I'm posting a new draft of this in the coming days with the error/typo's fixed (I hope). The break in scene is significantly revised too, so if you get a chance you might take a look

I see from your sig that you've got two scripts in production, well done, best of luck with them.

Cheers

Col.


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Cam17
Posted: June 6th, 2009, 10:57pm Report to Moderator
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Col.,

This was a good read.  For a 12 pager, it had a full, rich feel to it.  I don't think you overwrote in those first five pages.  I think the details were necessary for us to get a feel of Jim's life in this little English town.  You had a real command of the story in the first ten pages as you set up the inevitable confrontation with the robbers.  It was a good idea to show those two early in the script so we at least get a little idea of who they were--instead of it just being some random act of violence.

Along with most of the other posters, I was expecting Jim to get shot or stabbed in the end, so well done on throwing a curveball there.  My only problem with the script was the way in which the wife died.  It just felt a bit contrived how the co-worker sees the robbers coming out of the store and then it just happens to be Jim's wife in the car that stops short.  Maybe if the wife unexpectedly walks into the shop during the robbery, then goes into heart attack.  That might be a little more organic.  Also, I would have liked to had a scene at the hospital, perhaps just after the wife is pronounced dead and Jim is staring at her body under the sheet.  I think that would give your final scene at the home more punch.

BTW, I also liked your use of the phrase "Everything Must Go" throughout the script.  It takes on different meanings by the time it's all over.  Wouldn't make a bad title for this script either.

Cam


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FDiogo
Posted: June 8th, 2009, 5:15pm Report to Moderator
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A very well writen interesting drama


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Colkurtz8
Posted: June 20th, 2009, 7:01pm Report to Moderator
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Cam

Thanks for the read, I'm happy people like yourself are perceptive enough to understand why I did put that extra bit of detail into describing Jim's home, routine, place of work, etc. Sometimes various details require more weight for emphasise and character protrayal, even if it doesn't make for the most gripping, edge-of-your-seat reading.

Since Nora is expected to arrive on the scene to pick up Jim, I hoped it wouldn't be all too coincidental as it was one of the things I did fear. Good suggestion with her walking in as I'm working perfecting a new draft at the moment which has a greatly altered break in scene (albeit, not the changes you're looking for) but still, always good to hear other ideas.

Good suggestion with the title change too I'll give it some consideration.

Thanks again for taking the time, much appreciated.


FDiogo

Cheers for reading, glad you liked it.

Col.


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jwent6688
Posted: June 21st, 2009, 11:52am Report to Moderator
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Col, very well written. A powerful piece. Didn't see the ending coming. Thought he was a goner for sure. Seemed a little redundant that he seemed to be having a heart attack, but recovered (Usually doesn't happen with those ol' timers) And then she died of one.

Maybe Nora crashes through a store front trying to avoid the junkies. he neck is badly cut. Jim tries in vain to contain the bleeding as they wait for help. They have a powerful moment with him begging her not to go?

Even if she dies of a heart attack i think there's a great opportunity for a last scene between the two. Felt like it needed it. All in all, great work though. James


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stevie
Posted: June 21st, 2009, 8:17pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Col, just read the newer version you sent me. Yeah, still a good read. the changes are subtle but overall i could tell it was different. Saying that, i think I liked the originalbetter? No reason exactly, maybe just the flow was better in the first draft.
Um, there's still a 'Tom' lurking in there! when the junkies come into the shop...
And also there's a time discrepancy: its 545 when Nora finishes cooking and leaves the house...minutes later at the shop it's 650. Sorry to be picky but i tend to notice those things. must be the OCD in me.
ok will go and review Rid now. cheers buddy.



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Colkurtz8
Posted: June 22nd, 2009, 4:13pm Report to Moderator
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Steve

Cheers for the read mate, your always good for a comment or two. Sorry you didn't prefer it to the old draft, personally I think its a lot stronger, but hey its all just opinion and I'm always grateful for yours.

You're dead right about the mistakes too, my proof reading sucks.

Col.


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Dreamscale
Posted: June 22nd, 2009, 6:21pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Col, this is based on the updated draft you E-Mailed me today.  Since you requested a detailed look at this, that’s exactly what I’m going to give you.  I took page by page notes as I read, and will post them separately below.

I’ve read all the feedback after I finished the script.  You’ve received a lot of great comments…great in both good stuff to think about,  and solid, positive feedback.  I realize that a lot of the stuff I’m going to bring up is nit picky, and rather different from what others tend to focus on, when reading and reviewing scripts, but I guess it’s just the way I am, and some will think I’m a complete jackass, while others may say to themselves, “Hmmm, I didn’t think about that”.  I seem to see things differently than most, and I guess that can be both a good thing and a bad thing, depending on how you look at it.

Story-wise, I think this is a little flat and cliché, even with the twist ending.  It’s a bit heavy handed in the fore shadowing and once Peter and Eddie are intro’d, it’s pretty clear that we’re not going to have a very happy ending.  Your twist is OK, but as a few others stated, it seems to lack a punch, based on what you chose to show, in terms of the ending.

I definitely liked Jim as a character.  I felt for him and worried about him throughout, so that’s a big plus!  You did a good job of portraying his everyday life, which is most likely very habitual and mundane.  I do have a few issues that I want to bring up involving this, though.

As I stated below in my page by page notes, I couldn’t ever get a good visual of the setting, locale, etc. here.  I’m not from the UK, nor have I spent time there, so maybe it’s just my ignorance.  It seems that Jim and Nora live within a short walk of his shop.  It also seems that Jim is a creature of habit and most likely walks to work each and every day.  Why then, would Nora come to pick him up after work on his last day?  Also, why would Jim agree to meet Chris out at a bar later that night, knowing he was having a big dinner with his wife?

I don’t know about exact details of the economic situation in the UK (or wherever this takes place…cause we don’t know where this takes place), but it struck me a little odd that Jim could make a living with a small bookstore, pay a full time employee (Chris), and afford to not only retire in his 60’s, but also take a 3 month cruise.  If he’s selling books for $3.50 a pop (or even $10), he’s going to have to be selling a shitload of books, and I don’t see that as reality in this time and age, or in a small town (like Mary mentioned with the online sellers being so prevalent).  Again, I realize how nit picky this is, but it really stood out in my mind.

Same sort of issue with the 2 junkies.  Again, maybe things are quite different in the UK, but the way they came in and attempted to rob Jim, it just didn’t ring true.  It sounds like Jim has been doing this forever…everyone knows him, likes him, etc.  What are these thugs doing in this idyllic little town, and how do they think they’re going to get away with this crime?

The 2 thugs dialogue wasn’t very good, IMO.  It came off as really cheesy and unrealistic, as others have commented.  It’s a big issue because this takes place in a very intense scene(s).

Overall, I guess I liked this for what it is, but that’s about it.  I did feel bad for Jim (and Nora), and that’s a credit to your writing, characterization, and setup.  You know I enjoy slow builds, so I didn’t have any issues with the first 5 or so pages being slow, but they were a bit overwritten as others have pointed out.  The payoff was worth it, but (as others have said again), I don’t think you quite nailed the ending the way you could have.  Nora’s death is the issue here.  I think it would have been more powerful to show Jim’s reaction immediately. It would be a very powerful and intense scene, as apposed to Jim and Chris driving in a car.  I liked the ending, showing Jim on his own, and could really feel for him.  As for the little twist with the meds, it went over my head, and thus didn’t have much of an effect on me.

So, in closing, I think you did a good job here overall.  Any time you get so many rave reviews, you know you’re doing something right.  I’d recommend cleaning up the dialogue of the thugs, and adding some punch to Nora’s demise.  I’d also make it a bit more clear where this is taking place, as Americans aren’t going to have the same ability that UK’ers do, to visualize the setting.  I’d also have some dialogue involving Jim’s financial situation, and how he could afford retirement, and a 3 month cruise.

Nice work Col.  It was an easy and for the most part, enjoyable read.
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Dreamscale
Posted: June 22nd, 2009, 6:24pm Report to Moderator
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Page by page notes

Page 1 – Opening slug – I always recommend being very exact in your slugs.  If you have another “home” in the script, this slug will not be detailed enough.  (Jim and Nora’s Home, maybe?)

Not sure about your use of “- - and then a new sentence with a cap.  Kind of not completing the previous sentence with a period feels off, a bit.

“am” should most likely be capped.

IMO, you’re capping too many words that probably don’t need to be.

“A bottle of MEDICATION is on the dresser, “Cardio Core”. – I always suggest not using “is” as a verb in a script.  I’d recommend “sits” or the like.  Also, not sure about the use of a comma and then the name of the meds…it reads a bit odd.

“Life begins gradually with the start of a new day. The pale, morning sun casts shadows and light over the town.  Some townsfolk are already up, walking about.” – This first sentence here is pretty much a waste, as it doesn’t tell us anything.  The last line tells me you are intending this “scene” to basically show some people walking around this town.  I don’t think it’s really telling or showing us anything important, but let’s see where it goes…

The rest of these slugs inside the home should probably have the same word(s) that the first slug has, to show it’s the same place.  Yeah, I know, I’m being picky here, and it probably won’t even come into play here, but you know I am a stickler for details in slugs, unless you’re going for an abbreviated slug, which many prefer in SS.

Last line – “Jim’s” should be “Jim”.

Page 2 – Opening slug should probably read “EXT.  Jim and Nora’s Home” (or whatever you choose for the “home”.

“They smile brightly back at him, one calls out.” – I don’t think the comma is used correctly here.

This whole scene doesn’t ring true to me…Jim leaves his house and starts walking, and he’s suddenly at a Travel Agency.  Does he really live within a very short walk of a Travel Agency?

OK, listen, you’ve got 3 scenes in a row now (within a ½ page) that all read exactly the same – “Street – Minutes Later”.  I don’t like when I see this sort of thing. It’s another example of me being a stickler with slug headings.  I can’t get much of a visual of where he is and what the actual setting is.  I think you could write this more detailed very easily, and it would help a lot. – OK, the 3rd slug should read “EXT.  THE LITERARY CIRCLE” (IMO).  Just too much of this “street” stuff.

Don’t like “1/3” in the prose.  It sticks out like a sore thumb.

Page 3 – “;” and “…” do not require a capital letter following them.

Don’t like the “Junkies” title of Peter and Eddie – would we know they’re junkies at first glimpse? I doubt it, unless this isn’t quite the idyllic little town that I see in my head, but again, based on the descriptions, I really have no clue.

Page 4 – Slug near the bottom with “LATER” – again, this doesn’t really help us out as readers here.  What does “later” mean?  I think I know just based on what’s going down here, but it sure doesn’t help anyone who may be trying to get the lighting right, or the like.  Know what I mean?  I’d just use “EVENING”, or “LATE AFTERNOON” or the like.  It would simplify things for sure.

Page 5 – 3 wrylies in a row – too many.  You know, you could use a wrylie in every single piece of dialogue, but less is more for wrylies.  Only use them when they really make a difference…here, I don’t think they do.

Page 7 – “I’d to do a bit…” – doesn’t sound right, but since it’s speech, you can do anything you want…but it sure sounds odd.

“Jim’s” should be “Jim”.

“Chris is about to leave.” – Not a good sentence.  Should be something more like, “Chris stands at the front door.”

Page 8 – 2 more wrylies that just aren’t necessary.

Page 9 - “Chris stops dead when he sees the two, Eddie with the knife to Jim’s cheek, Peter a few feet back, stuffing the money into his pocket, they freeze also.” – Awkward sentence…and too long.  It doesn’t read well – rewrite it.

I don’t like Peter’s dialogue near the bottom of the page – it doesn’t sound real for this guy.

Page 10 – “He goes to say something - -“ – Unnecessary line.

“Nora eyes go wide with the fright as she watches the two land hard on the street.” – “Nora” should be “Nora’s”.  Take out “the” before “fright”.

“Jim” should be “Jim’s”.

“Chris” should be “Chris’s”.

“EXT./INT. STREET/CAR – CONTINUOUS” – Not sure why you’re using EXT. and INT. and Street and Car.  Probably should be an intercut or the like.

Page 11 – “elbowing” should be “elbows”

I don’t like Peter’s dialogue again here…it doesn’t sound realistic at all.

This whole scene is mislabeled, as I said earlier.  I think it needs to be rethought, as you have a number of different scenes actually (Nora’s car – INT and EXT, as well as EXT Shop, or whatever).  Give it another look and read and see what you think.

Page 12 – Need “INT.” in the slug.

“stand” should be “stands”.
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Colkurtz8
Posted: June 27th, 2009, 4:45pm Report to Moderator
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Jeff

As always I really appreciate the painstaking effort and time you put in to your in-depth reviews regardless of what you thought of the piece, good or bad.

I'll try to answer some of your queries, criticisms, opinions etc

I'm disappointed you found the story "flat and cliché" yes I agree it is a simple story and yes, it has been done before a thousand times (like 90% of the scripts you will read) which is why I worked the twist with Nora, added the subtext of the book and (what I tried to do anyway) formulate a powerful and satisfying conclusion. This I thought would give the otherwise basic concept and theme the edge or turn it needed to pay off the reader.

Honestly, I don't see how the build up is too heavy handed for it to be a talking point. Sure I added some detail at the beginning during Jim's morning routine but its all there to serve a purpose in defining character and his working environment, two very pivotal parts of the story.

As you've said you enjoy slow build ups. A case in point being your own "Fade To white"  where you took approximately 30 pages of a 112 page script to build your story and characters (something which I loved about the piece by the way). That's around the same proportion of the story I took with this script to introduce Jim, his home life and his place of work (3 to 4 pages of a 12 pager)

Glad you liked and empathised with Jim and Nora. I see what you mean about lack of clarity in the setting, I tend to be very sparing in that department as with character descriptions. I was presumptuous in only considering people who would be familiar with such a town of this nature which are dotted all over the UK and Ireland, naturally Americans wouldn't pick this up so easy.

"It seems that Jim and Nora live within a short walk of his shop. It also seems that Jim is a creature of habit and most likely walks to work each and every day."

-- Yes, it is within walking distance, which is why Jim walks to work. Its less than a ten minute drive, as shown near the end when Nora check her watch at 5:45, then Jim check the clock in the shop at 5:50 before the break in sequence till Nora's arrival plays out over 2 pages.

Why then, would Nora come to pick him up after work on his last day?

-- Is it not understandable for Nora to want to see the shop one last time before Jim closes the doors for good? Its been a big part of both their lives not just his, the least she can do is pick him up on his last ever day of business. Maybe they had planned to spend a few minutes in there, to say goodbye.

As I said this is a milestone for both of them, end of an old way of life which was hopefully going to spark the beginning of a new one, their "Golden Years"

The economic situation is pretty bad (worse in Ireland which is where I was visualising this to be set in) But you must remember, Jim has had the bookshop for decades. Over time he could have been putting money away bit by bit. As he says "We haven’t been away in so long. It’ll be nice to treat her for once..." so who knows when was the last time they treated themselves.

Having said that, a 3 month cruise would be expensive, a tad ambitious but it’s not beyond impossible that two people of this age, with a business foR this length could not afford one. It can always be shortened to a month or whatever.

Also employing one other employee isn't going to break the bank. Its unskilled work so Chris would only be on minimum wage, nothing too burdening on the shop's accounts. Plus, how do you know he is full time? This takes place over 1 day remember.

Its a series of circumstances that is resulting in Jim getting out of the business - His advancing years, the slowing down of trade and of course to growing obligation to look after  his ailing wife. I attempted to give the impression that Jim was "quitting while ahead" as they say, getting out before he did start losing money. He says "Ah, I got more than my share of good years out of it," so he has done ok for himself over the years. Nowadays things aren't so good for businesses, especially small, privately owned one like Jim's. One hears it on the news everyday of the week, practically all over the developed world.

"Same sort of issue with the 2 junkies.  Again, maybe things are quite different in the UK, but the way they came in and attempted to rob Jim, it just didn’t ring true."

--Again I'm sorry this didn't work for you, I tried to create an exciting situation with the two guys breaking in, Chris's unexpected interference and subsequent tragic death of Nora. It worked for some, not for others. I can live with that.

It sounds like Jim has been doing this forever…everyone knows him, likes him, etc. -- I'm not sure what you mean by this, could you explain?  

"What are these thugs doing in this idyllic little town" -- As thugs/junkies/wasters whatever you want to call them, they could be any number of reasons why there are passing through the town.

I've actually re-included a line from Peter which was in the script before but omitted in the draft I gave you "I dunno...I’m not going back to the city for awhile anyway, that’s for sure." This tells us that they are more transients than anything as junkies tend to be when all they care about is where their next fix is coming from, all else takes a backseat.

In this case, its getting the money to score some drugs or the flip side could be to get away from the scene they've fallen into. But yeah, I agree with you, they don't fit the seemling pleasant fabric of the town, that above line is included on the draft posted here.

"and how do they think they’re going to get away with this crime?" -- As junkies this isn't going to be a priority with them, or at least something they would be overly concerned with which would stop them going through their plans. This was meant to a simple "smash & grab" operation, a quick in and out. Get the money, get out, get fixed up.

They seen Jim in the window, an old man, on his last day, they figure it'll be an easy score. One might argue that of all places to rob, a bookstore wouldn't be top of the list, again these are drug addled human beings...clear thinking isn't going to be the order of the day.

"The 2 thugs dialogue wasn’t very good, IMO.  It came off as really cheesy and unrealistic, as others have commented.  It’s a big issue because this takes place in a very intense scene(s)." -- Can you specify which dialogue in particular, I'll see can I explain myself or change it accordingly.



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Colkurtz8
Posted: June 27th, 2009, 4:45pm Report to Moderator
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Continued -

"I don’t think you quite nailed the ending the way you could have.  Nora’s death is the issue here.  I think it would have been more powerful to show Jim’s reaction immediately. It would be a very powerful and intense scene, as opposed to Jim and Chris driving in a car. "

-- Funny you should mention this, a valid point and cause of much thought and revision. I passed this to a friend of mine and we discussed the story at length especially that sequence. I had a short scene in the car between Nora and Jim but was convinced to remove it in favour of fading out on the "Everything must go" sign.

I don't know, I'm not so sure a big, grandiose last gasp scene between Jim and Nora could work, I felt it would borders too severely on the cheddar factor. Yeah, the way I have it maybe a it cold and abrupt, some might say a little too much but this was the further this theme of pure misfortune, the fact that Jim doesn't even get a chance to say goodbye to his wife.

I feel the consequence of Nora locking the doors to prevent the junkies from entering which in turn stops Jim from getting into the car to help her is a powerful (if bleak) denouement.

As I've said on a number of occasions on the thread, its this tragedy of an initially good intentioned action resulting in a completely adverse, disastrous outcome that I explored in this piece. The sign that Nora makes up which Jim leaves out just as the junkies pass thus attracting their attention is another example.

If she hadn't made it up (with the best intentions of course) Jim wouldn't have had to display it on the window meaning Peter and Eddie wouldn't have seen it so they wouldn't have been encouraged to raid the shop. The fact that Jim doesn't even want the sign up in the first place, he says - "Oh, Nora got one of her brainwaves during the week to make it up...I don’t know...didn’t think it was really necessary", "Anybody who cares, knows already." reinforces the tragedy of its consequences.

"As for the little twist with the meds, it went over my head, and thus didn’t have much of an effect on me."

-- Again these are all merely my attempts and I’m by no means stating I achieved it...but in the opening scene, I wrote it in such a way that the reader is led to believe that the medication is for Jim, thus we are expecting him to keel or get into difficulty when the junkies invite themselves into his shop. To prevent a confrontation kicking off between Chris and the two, he fakes a heart attack to get the them out which in itself has a cruel irony to it as that results in the guys running into Nora, the real sufferer of the heart condition.

It's only at the end that Nora's name is revealed on the prescription, which gives reason as to why she croaked when faced with the frightening situation of Peter and Eddie trying to jack her car...most seemed to get this.

In terms of your page by page commentary and technical notes, typos etc you’re always on the money with these, I’ve altered and included them in the new draft just posted up here. Bless your perceptive eye, some of the catches I couldn’t believe I missed, it’s amazing what faults a second pair of blinkers can unearth.

On just a couple of points you made:

“This whole scene doesn’t ring true to me…Jim leaves his house and starts walking, and he’s suddenly at a Travel Agency.  Does he really live within a very short walk of a Travel Agency?”

--I don’t see how this is a problem, I do say that Jim lives in a terrace house (this is a British term for an urban dwelling, not sure if Americans know it) so he is within the town limits, in his walk to work.

“Don’t like the “Junkies” title of Peter and Eddie” – Yeah, I know it’s a crass term to use but it pretty much sums up the two guys for the reader, I mean you get the idea from that one word what kinda of people these two are gonna be . As I mentioned already I don’t spend too much time describing physical details of characters, just enough so the reader has an idea of their persona.

would we know they’re junkies at first glimpse?  - Is that not the costume departments job? As I say, the reader needs words to help paint the character for them. I’m not going to waste space detailing their attire unless it had some bearing on the story. That is why I used “Junkies” to inform the reader in the least amount of words possible who these people are, their attitudes, outlook, motivations etc.


“I’d to do a bit…” --  I see how you would find this an odd turn of phrase, not so in my vernacular however. It’s just another example of the British/American difference.

The same goes for the type of town this is set in. You had difficulty imagining it, but if you read some comments on the thread a number of people were able to picture the town in their head no problem. Naturally, most of these were probably from my side of the world and they either in one or near one...again it’s just a cultural thing.

Page 9 - “Chris stops dead when he sees the two, Eddie with the knife to Jim’s cheek, Peter a few feet back, stuffing the money into his pocket, they freeze also.” – Awkward sentence…and too long.  It doesn’t read well – rewrite it.

–- Correct, I actually left out some of that in the particular draft I sent you, good catch.

“I don’t like Peter’s dialogue near the bottom of the page – it doesn’t sound real for this guy.” –- Why? How would you put it?

Really appreciate the time you put into this, Jeff. I wasn’t expecting such an insightful and thoughtful response, I’m extremely grateful for it. You’ve given me a lot to think about and work on.

I’m surprised you never touched upon the book reference and that the medication reveal at the end didn’t do anything for you. One can't please them all I guess

Anyway great review and page by page notes, cheers.

Col.



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Colkurtz8  -  July 22nd, 2009, 11:44am
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Dreamscale
Posted: July 8th, 2009, 9:04pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Col, sorry for not responding to your response.  Here you go…

Maybe “flat and cliché” wasn’t the right choice of words.  It’s just that there really wasn’t much going on, and I found the 2 punks to be very cliché, and other than the “twist”, things were pretty predictable.  As I mentioned earlier, the book subtext went right over my head.

You’re perfectly correct in what you say here about your buildup vs. my buildup.  The difference being that you only have 12 pages, and used about 4 of them to build things up.  Based on this, I “knew” where we were going right from the get go, and with only 8 more pages, there wasn’t much room for much else.  As I said earlier, I didn’t have anything against your buildup.  I called it heavy handed, because for me, again, I knew what was going to take place…and I think you intended that, but wanted your twist to work as a shock or surprise in the end.

So, if it’s a 10 minute drive, it would be quite a walk, actually.  For instance, I drive 10 minutes to my gym, but if I were to walk it, it would easily be 45 minutes or more.  Yeah, it’s understandable for Nora to pick him up, but it kinda felt like it was written in to serve the plot. Maybe if Jim just said something to Chris about Nora coming in to get him that evening early on.

OK, the financial situation.  Again, since I can’t really visualize what this town is like, I may be off, but whether or not Jim has owned this place for decades, doesn’t matter IMO.  The bottom line is that a small book store in a small town isn’t going to generate much income (profit) on an annual basis.  Ebay and Amazon, and all the other online sellers have been around for awhile now.  Small book stores are a thing of the past (at least in America).  I don’t see how he could have saved up anything, based on sales of books.  I mean is it even possible that he’s selling more than 10 books/day?  I highly doubt it, and at that rate, there’s not much available for even basic living expenses, let alone retirement and a 3 month cruise.  It just struck me as unrealistic, but again, I could be way off.  One more thing to keep in mind, with owning his own place, there’s no retirement plan in effect for him…no pension, no nothing.  It all comes down to savings, and I don’t see how he’d have any.

Chris is on his 30’s, and is described as Jim’s assistant, which means to me, he’s a full time employee.  Whatever he’s making, in theory, it needs to be enough for Chris to live on, as he’s not some young kid.  Let’s say he’s making only $100/day ($25,000/year).  That would require right there 10 books being sold each day, at $10 a pop.  Again, I doubt Jim could even sell 10 books a day, and it sounds like they’re going for a lot less than $10.  Maybe I’m reading too much into this here?

With the 2 punks, it just didn’t come off as realistic for me, Col.  It was set up so obviously, that it just didn’t do much for me.  I liked how Jim feigned illness…that was well done.   I also liked how you set up Chris’ return by showing the sweater slip down on the chair. But based on that line, I wasn’t surprised when he came back, because it was kind of a give away (to me).

My comment about Jim doing this forever, means that it’s quite convenient that he’s never had a problem before, and on his last day, these 2 thugs decide to rob his store, of all places in this town.

My comments about the 2 thugs are based on what I believe to be an unrealistic situation.  They don’t seem to fit in, based on what I’m visualizing, but again, my visuals for this place aren’t too good.  If you were set in an inner city, no problem at all, but this just doesn’t come off as anything like that.  I think they’d stick out like a sore thumb and any cops in the area would kick their asses out.  Also, they’re on foot, so I don’t know how they’re going to get away…the whole thing just doesn’t add up for me.  Like where are they going to “score” these drugs anyway?  Is this a drug dealing, thug oriented little town? It doesn’t seem to be.

Col, I didn’t like any of the thugs dialogue, but I’d say the worst line had to be the one about “Listen hero, there’s 2 of us…”  They just didn’t come off as real thugs IMO.

I can see your point about the ending.  For me, I needed more. I did like the sign part, but I would have liked to see some kind of sorrow from Jim and maybe even some exchange between them, before she dies.

I didn’t really get the anything about the sign being a cause for the break in, but you make a valid point.  Problem is that that is all in retrospect, because at the time, we don’t have any fear fro Nora.  It reminds me of something in my Fade, which no one got (if you’re interested, I’ll PM you with the details).  Of all the places to rob, an old closing book store is a pretty poor choice…even for idiot junkies.

Yeah, I agree about the meds and twist, but it just didn’t register for me, but in retrospect again, you did a good job with this!

I’ve commented on the walk issue, and it still seems strange, but I just can’t picture it.

The description of “junkies” kind of gave away too much for me.  I knew what was going to happen, based on this, and that is a problem for me.

I no longer have the draft you sent, so I don’t know what dialogue you’re referring to in regard to Peter.

Yeah, the book thing went over my head, as did the meds thing.  It make sense now, but at the time, it didn’t do anything for me.

As I said, all in all, I did like this and think you did a good job with the genre and you take on it.  Jim was a great sympathetic character…I felt for him the entire way through.

Hope this helps and clears some things up.
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Colkurtz8
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Jeff

I too have been grossly procrastinating my reply, apologies.

First off ,thanks for your detailed post. I think with most of your points it’s just a difference of taste between us. I can understand how you might find some of my turns of phrase a little off or strange, a colloquial thing, different slang, articulation and that. Since television is dominated by America I get to see and learn your mannerisms, speech patterns, expressions as well as the locales, while you might not be as familiar with mine. It’s just the way things are.

I see your point about the predictability but that was to lure the reader in, make them think they’ve got the story sussed before hitting them with the twist at the end. For the first 10 pages or so things do unfold the way the average reader would forecast, with the introduction of Jim, his situation and the junkies  but that’s where the last section of the story comes in, turning everything on its head. The fact that the reader believes they have the plot down before the rug is pulled from underneath them. At least this was the effect I was going for, it’s going to work on some, not on others.

I still stand by the build up, in my opinion it supplements the story and characters without over indulging itself. It’s cool with me if not everybody agrees with this.
“Yeah, it’s understandable for Nora to pick him up, but it kinda felt like it was written in to serve the plot. Maybe if Jim just said something to Chris about Nora coming in to get him that evening early on.”

Besides it being plausible for his wife to come collect him on his last day regardless of how far the shop is from his home. Jim does refer to Nora coming as Chris is leaving on page 8:

JIM (CONT’D)
You can leave the latch off, Nora
should be here any second.

Also the tragedy associated with this is if Chris hadn’t left the door open, Peter and Eddie wouldn’t have been able to gain entry to the shop. This is just another example of the misfortunate chain of events which culminate in the disastrous conclusion.
  
Plus Nora taking 7-8 minutes to drive there could be down to her getting caught in traffic. Sure it’s a small town but the time is just before 6PM when the streets would be at their busiest. Also she is a women behind the wheel of a car, so let’s face it, they’re simply not as equipped with the skills like we are to navigate through such an urban environment.

Good points with the financial situation, I’ve changed it to 1 month cruise since your last post. But who to say Nora didn’t work until ill health demanded her to give up her job and take it easy. Small book stores as you correctly pointed out wouldn’t generate much income and are a dying trade which is why Jim is retiring. But I can believe, given the nature of his location and the length of time he’s owned it that he would have had some good years out of it. As I said, in my local town, the primary book shop owner has made a very good living out of it...that’s to say “has” maybe not so much nowadays.

Good point too about Chris the assistant, again its past earnings when times were more fruitful that serves as Jim’s financial basis. You’ve  argued the viability of this employment and are probably right that he can’t afford one. I’m thinking Jim is too nice to let him go and since he is packing up the business anyway for other reasons including money, he may as well keep him on for the remainder of his time as owner.

Also, I don’t know if I’ve already said it but Nora and Jim have had no children, (or at least I didn’t give the impression they had) so they have only ever had themselves to look after, this would surely help in building a sizable nest egg for their latter years.

“With the 2 punks, it just didn’t come off as realistic for me, Col.  It was set up so obviously, that it just didn’t do much for me.“

This was my intention. I never hid the fact that the junkies were planning on robbing the shop. I made suggestive hints in the descriptive instead of that because that’s not what this story is about. I didn’t intend for Peter and Eddie entrance at the end to be a big shock, that was inevitable given the earlier scene. The crux of the piece is the consequence of certain choices made by the characters, Jim leaving out the sign, asking Chris to leave the door open, Chris returning, Jim faking the heart attack, Nora locking the car doors. These factors assist each other in creating the unfortunate ending. The two guys robbing the store is just another event within the plot to create drama, it’s significant yes, but not meant to be a big “oh my god” revelation, I thought that was clear in how obvious I made their intention when they are first introduced. They have one plan and one plan only, I never indicated otherwise.

“My comment about Jim doing this forever, means that it’s quite convenient that he’s never had a problem before, and on his last day, these 2 thugs decide to rob his store, of all places in this town.”

I don’t know what to say to this except, that is the nature of drama and storytelling. I mean, you chronicle exceptional, extraordinary circumstances, tell of things that might not normally happen, you know, in order to stir up some interest and intrigue for the reader/viewer. You see how boring real life is when you turn on that mindless, brain numbing sh?t they call “reality” television. That is why fiction was born, to break from the monotony of everyday life.

And whose to know he’s never had this problem before? Robbing a book shop isn’t the first place on a burglars list for sure but because these are disorientated, drug addled individuals they just see an easy score, not caring for the size of the take,  just enough to cover their next fix.

I agree with you about them seeming out of place but there is a line by Peter:

PETER
I dunno...I’m not going back to
the city for awhile anyway, that’s
for sure.

Which mustn’t have been in the draft I sent you but on the one posted on SS. It’s not much but goes some way to explain their presence in this town. That something may have went wrong in the city so they’ve come out here to get away. Maybe they had problem with a dealer, or a friend kicked the bucket, who knows. It’s pretty vague I know but it gives the impression that the two are merely passing thru and are not actually from the town.

” Col, I didn’t like any of the thugs dialogue, but I’d say the worst line had to be the one about “Listen hero, there’s 2 of us…”  They just didn’t come off as real thugs IMO.”

That’s fine if it didn’t work for you, it is your honest opinion and I completely respect it, more than most I must say. However, I do notice you continually refer to Peter and Eddie as “thugs” or “punks” which is inaccurate. These are drug dependant “junkies”. As I conceded before this may be a crass term but you get the idea of who these people are. “Thug” and “punk” have more sinister, tougher connotations with it while “Junkies” (to me) is more pathetic or pitiful if anything. These people have a seriously debilitating addiction, sometimes rendering them as mere shells of people.  This might explain their less then convincing stance in front of the “well built” fearless Chris. He wasn’t part of the plan and isn’t intimidated by them, seeing their appearance and body language.

“Of all the places to rob, an old closing book store is a pretty poor choice…even for idiot junkies.”

That’s exactly it, they’re idiots, stupid, desperate and not thinking right. But also they are only looking for enough to see them through, not a big score.
“The description of “junkies” kind of gave away too much for me.  I knew what was going to happen, based on this, and that is a problem for me.”

I could change it but it summed up what I saw them to be. It’s a universal term which saved me from going into detail. I think anybody who reads it will know what I’m talking about. Call it laziness, but I prefer to focus more on characters through what they say and do as opposed to their specific appearance, to me it tells you a lot more about them. What they said and done didn’t work for you either so I’ll have to admit defeat to you in that respect.

“Yeah, the book thing went over my head, as did the meds thing.  It make sense now, but at the time, it didn’t do anything for me”

Ok, the book isn’t too important, it’s merely another nuance of the story and Jim’s situation. It doesn’t have much sway over the story as a whole. However... if you didn’t get the “meds thing” no wonder you thought the story was “flat” and “cliche” as therein lies the essential twist of the script. The fact that we were led to believe it was Jim who had the heart trouble. Without perceiving this you must have thought “oh, so Nora dies instead of Jim, so what, unlucky for her, shit happens”. But since the medication was hers from the beginning it gives greater reasoning as to why she should die. The bitter irony of Jim feigning his heart attack is given greater resonance too, considering how things turned out.

Once again, Jeff, thanks so much for going into detail here and explaining truthfully what you really thought about the script. I take your comments very seriously which is why I requested a review from you in the first place, and you didn’t disappoint. You’ve given me lots to take on board and think about, should I go and revise this. Cheers.

Take care.

Col.


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Dreamscale
Posted: July 22nd, 2009, 2:06pm Report to Moderator
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Sounds good and makes sense.

Looking forward to your next script.
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rendevous
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Apologies for butting in here lads - The junkies were the bit of the story that was the weakest for me. Compared to the rest of the script they seemed too out of place and a bit too obvious. Up until that point in the story I wasn't sure what was going to happen.


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Colkurtz8
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Rendevous

No problem, thanks for your input, all appreciated and duly noted. I've posted a newer draft since you read it though so if you ever get the time. It's changed significantly from the first draft.


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rendevous
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I'll have a look at the weekend. Be interesting for me to see the changes. You can owe me a read!


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craig cooper-flintstone
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A great read, I Loved the double-barrelled twist at the end, It reminded me of one of the classic 'tales of the unexpected' from the early eighties.

Good work


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Colkurtz8
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Craig

Thanks for the read. I'm happy you liked it and appreciated the twist.

If you have anything of a similar length I would be more than happy to read and feed for you.

Col.


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rendevous
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Colonel,

I gave it a read as promised.

A small arsy point - but you don't need a page number on your first page.
Another - I'm not sure you need all these moments later, minutes later slug endings are necessary. I understand they're more for the reader but they'd be difficult to show on film.
I've been reading up on it. I'm just sticking with LATER for now. At least until I hear different from someone wiser than I.


Quoted from YGYA
Jim lifts up the set of shutters to his shop, “The Literary
Circle”


You told us the name in the slug, you don't need to repeat it here.

Euros. Are we in Ireland?

"Classic 1930’s jazz plays lightly overhead" - I like the music choice, very fitting, not sure the 'overhead' is necessary.

I note you're sticking with the original plot. Fair enough. I'd have preffered not to have know what Pete & Eddie were. I thought a bit of mystery for them would have been better IMH. Especially of their dialogue had been more ambiguous.

I did think the rest of the script was better than the previous draft.

Only one niggle with it - wouldn't the guys in the shop notice the incident that happens just up the road? Maybe not. I'd have preferred it to be clearer though. In a small town such as this any little news travels almost as fast as light.

Another small point. I'd have clarified what the "“Everything Must Go" in the car near the end actually was. I got it, but I think some would miss it.


Quoted from YGYA
LIVING ROOM - SAME


I can't recall seeing a slug ending with same before. Please elaborate.

I apologise if you've heard all this before.

Overall I think it's improved. I do the ending. The whole thing feels a bit stronger.


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Kaycee
Posted: July 27th, 2009, 8:43am Report to Moderator
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Hi Howard,

I was going to read this one based on the good reviews, but for some reason the link isn't working for me? I'm not sure if it's just my computer or the link.

Anyone else havong problems opening this one?

If anything I'll try again later.
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jayrex
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The link appears to be fine.


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Yeah, the link seems fine.

Btw, Colonel, have you thought about changing the title of the script to something maybe a little more catchy? The script is great but the title lacks a little imo. I have no idea what a new title could be, just wondering if it has crossed your mind.


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Kaycee
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Thanks guys for checking.

Just tried again and it seems to be working fine now.
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Colkurtz8
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Rendevous

Thanks for taking the time to re-read, much appreciated. I'm glad you found the new draft an improvement over the previous one.

Just to touch on some of the points you made:

"A small arsy point - but you don't need a page number on your first page."

-- Maybe I'm misreading you here, just to clarify; Are you referring to the title page as being the first page or the first page of the actual script/story itself?

In any case my understanding is that the title page is not numbered (which it isn't) and the opening page of the actual script does (which it does) I think you may have been thrown off by the fact that the logline on this discussion board says (11 pages) which was the length of the original draft. However, the new draft is a page longer.

"Another - I'm not sure you need all these moments later, minutes later slug endings are necessary. I understand they're more for the reader but they'd be difficult to show on film.
I've been reading up on it. I'm just sticking with LATER for now. At least until I hear different from someone wiser than I."

-- By all means, stick to what works for you. True, the "minutes later" slugs can't be conveyed on screen all of the time, its just personally I like to let the reader of the script know where they are chronologically during any given sequence of scenes. It's not essential just a preference of mine. I used to only use "Day", "Night" and "Later" before but I found them too vague and unspecific for my tastes. Also, for a script like "Golden Years" which takes place over the course of one day, I deemed it helpful, if not exactly necessary to let the reader know what part of the day a certain scene is taking place in relation to the ones before and after it. Again, something like this down to personal choice.

"You told us the name in the slug, you don't need to repeat it here."

-- True, I'll probably change the slugline to "Shop", as oppose the changing the line of descriptive you quoted. So to give the impression the title of the shop is revealed just as Jim raises the shutters.

"Euros. Are we in Ireland?" -- It can be, whatever works for you. I envisaged any number of small traditional European towns could be associated to this particular place. That's why I tend to leave locale (and character) descriptions open, just the bare essentials, so not to be restricting ones vision of interpretation when imagining the location. I understand the need to have a certain amount of detail sometimes, especially if it has a significant influence over the script, this is both the case with  physical character and location information, not the case here i feel.

I've noticed that most who have read this (that’s most mind you, not all) have their on idea of what this town is like or know of a place like it and can apply Jim's habitat to it, and tha’ts perfectly fine with me, in fact I encourage it.

"Classic 1930’s jazz plays lightly overhead" - I like the music choice, very fitting, not sure the 'overhead' is necessary."

-- Yeah, I could phrase this it differently, I was trying to indicate that it was playing on the shop's stereo and not some overdubbed score cue.

"I note you're sticking with the original plot. Fair enough. I'd have preffered not to have know what Pete & Eddie were. I thought a bit of mystery for them would have been better IMH. Especially of their dialogue had been more ambiguous."

-- Jeff (Dreamscale) had the same complaint, which I explained to him the best I could in one of the above posts. I see your point all the same, I decided to go with them as straight forward, up to no good trouble makers. As I said in a previous post, the mystery and revelation lies elsewhere in the script, not in the two guys. Their intentions are clear from the outset, I didn't want to mislead the reader in any way with them. It’s the consequences of their actions among others that results in the dramatic and unforeseen conclusion, I attempted to conjure.

"Only one niggle with it - wouldn't the guys in the shop notice the incident that happens just up the road?"

-- I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean by this. What incident up the road are you talking about??

"Another small point. I'd have clarified what the "“Everything Must Go" in the car near the end actually was. I got it, but I think some would miss it."

-- Correct, the word "sign" is missing after "Everything Must Go", well spotted.

"I can't recall seeing a slug ending with same before. Please elaborate."

-- I've seen it used a number of times. It basically indicates the two scenes are running concurrently with one another. Again, this cannot be always effectively conveyed on screen but I include it assist the reader. It may work for some, not for others.

Thanks again for your comments, suggestion, questions and criticisms, all taken on board, cheers.


Sniper

I agree with you on this, Robert. I’ve given it some thought in the past but decided to leave it since the title quotes the caption written on the calendar by Nora. In terms of a caption I think it works fine, so on that basis I left it as it is. I could always change somewhere down the line in the midst of revisions/rewrites and that. Thank you for the suggestion.


Kaycee

Thanks for expressing interest in this. Yeah, the link works fine for me too. Sometimes, it depends on what computer you're working on, the link might need to be saved before being opened.

Either way, if you get around to reading it, I hope you enjoy it, take care.

Col.












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Colkurtz8  -  July 28th, 2009, 1:50pm
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Dreamscale
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Col, Rendevous is correct.  You don't want to number your first page.  Sure it counts as page 1, but you don't start your numbering until page 2.

Funny, Rendevous and I had a similar discussion about slugs a few days ago.  Glad you are on board with slugs that contain as much info as possible to help the reader along.  We may be two of the last of a dying breed.

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Colkurtz8
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A big fat "oh!" out of me in regard to this issue. I never knew that about the numbering, seems a little odd. Do you know why that is the case?

Yeah I see informative slugs as been the way to go both with the location and time...all within reason of course.


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Quoted from Dreamscale
You don't want to number your first page.  Sure it counts as page 1, but you don't start your numbering until page 2.


Quoted from Colkurtz8
A big fat "oh!" out of me here on this issue. I never knew that about the numbering, seems a little odd. Do you know why this is the case?

Yeah, I never heard of that before either. Why wouldn't you want to number page 1 (not the title page)?

Please don't say "because that's what The Screenwriter's Bible says".


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Dreamscale
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Not sure about the why's exactly, but page 1 is so obvious, it doesn't need to be numbered...not that that's a reason or anything.  I think you'll find this "rule" on just about any screenwriting info page.

Keep the slugs full, brother!!!  It may be up to you and I at this point.  Never surrender...never say die...UP THE IRONS!!!!!!
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Not sure about the why's exactly, but page 1 is so obvious, it doesn't need to be numbered...not that that's a reason or anything.  I think you'll find this "rule" on just about any screenwriting info page.

But isn't page 2 also pretty obvious?  

It's definitely a rule I'll be breaking with a smile on my face.



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Dreamscale
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No, page 2 is not as obvious, as page 1 is the only page in the script that won't have a number in the top right corner.

Sniper, you rebel, you!  Damn, man, you may just be worse than me, even.  Do you over-ride your sfotware to put "Page 1" in your script?

You know of the rule about what you have to do on page 54, if you have the phrase "splendidly unsplendid", anywhere on teh page, right?
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Quoted from Dreamscale
You know of the rule about what you have to do on page 54, if you have the phrase "splendidly unsplendid", anywhere on teh page, right?

That I should stop writing, like, forever? Cos' clearly I wouldn't be any good at it.


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Exactly!  Or, it could mean to immediately press "DELETE" and start over.
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Colkurtz8
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Yep, its definitely one of the strangest "rules" I've come across yet. Blatant numerical boycotting I say, of page 1s across the screenplay world!

They should take Field, Mckee and any other other format nazi's out there and have them up in court for counts of opening page hate crimes, discrimination and downight negligence.

They introduce the reader to the story, they can make or break a script, set the tone, the mood, contain the pretentious, ponderous attention grabbing, self indulgent, 40,000 extras required opening shot for christ sake!

To all abandoned, numberless page 1s out there, this is call to arms, revolt!


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rendevous
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Colonel,

I did say is was a small arsy point. We can always revolt, number our first page as 12 then just pick random numbers for all the other pages.

That teach them Hollywood basterds  

The incident I meant was the car incident with the junkies. Just a thought that occured at the time. Anyways, enjoyable script, with our without that '1'.



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Rendevous

"The incident I meant was the car incident with the junkies"

Yes, but Chris and Jim do react and come out of the shop, however its too late, Peter and Eddie are already halfway up the street. They can't pursue them as Nora is in obvious difficulty. The preceding sequence with Nora, Peter and Eddie happens in a matter of seconds, plus Jim keeps up the act of having a heart attack for a bit after the two Leave the shop just in case they were to come back.

In my head it seems to work out sequentially, the timing and that but I'll have another look at it, I may not have written it clearly enough for the reader.


And yeah, fu?k the passing over of page 1. Like Sniper, I'm gonna give it the credit it deserves...a number on the top right it can call its very own! [insert Braveheart-esque war crying smiley here]

Thanks again for your input.

Col.


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Dreamscale
Posted: July 28th, 2009, 7:26pm Report to Moderator
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C'mon you rebels.  No reason to over-ride your software, just to have a "1" in your upper right hand corner of page 1.  Just obey the rule and don't include it.

Col, doesn't your software automatically skip page 1?  I'm surprised if it odesn't or at least give you that option.
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Just obey the rule and don't include it.

Yeah, cos' some script reader in Hollywood's gonna open up the script and go --
"OHMYFUCKINGGOD! HE PUT A 1 ON PAGE ONE! CALL THE COPS! CALL SOMEBODY! I CAN'T FUCKING HANDLE THIS! AAAARGHH MY EYES, MY BEAUTIFUL EYES, THEY HURT"
-- and bin it (or something like that)  


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Colkurtz8
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Jeff

No, I use software that works in conjunction with word so it doesn't do it automatically. I have Celtx but never bothered to get the grips with it as my current program works fine. Maybe now is the time to take the leap.

But yeah, having said that, my sentiments echo Robert's above: So what, fu?k em.


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rendevous
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Frankly, I'm appalled.
Numbering your first page is just ridiculous and rather irresponsible.

Next thing you know you'll be looking both ways before crossing the road, blowing your noses in tissues (the very thought) and apologising after burping.



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Dreamscale
Posted: July 29th, 2009, 10:58am Report to Moderator
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Oh my God...next...maybe they'll throw some color onto their title page...there's nothing wrong with that...right?

How about a really big, wierd looking font in the middle of the script?

Or even better yet, what about the complete lyrics to a song, printed out, right after teh initail FADE IN?

Yes!  That's it.  Do all of the above, combined.  All these things combined equals nothing.
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Not to get away from the riveting discussion on page numbering, but i have a few non-numerical suggestions.  (I didn't quite read all the comments so sorry if i'm repeating)
The grammar is wrong with the wife in the second sentence.  Does she lie beside him? Or snore beside him?  There's no verb other than is.
page 4 'peter eyes on her purse'.  Should be 'eyes her purse' or 'Peter's eyes are on her purse'.
Does nora potter or putter at the bottom of page 4?
P7 'I'd to do'  I don't think you canor should contract 'I had' in this case.
P9 its open should be it?s open.  Also days should be day's
Other than the couple typos a pretty solid story.  Well written, and I did enjoy the descriptions.  I'm assuming the way your visualing it the camera would spend some time checking out the bookstore and such, so it works to use some space in the script.
I do agree with Astrid that there is a lack of punch though.  I think the first moment I was particularly interested in the old man was once he faked a heart attack.  That kind of using the junkies (and our) perception of him works great and shows an interesting character.  Up until then he just seemed like a boring old man.  Same problem with the wive I thought.  If you could spend some time showing their relationship, and whats at stake if one dies.  He's about to retire so they can go off on a cruise, they must be excited and remembering what it was like to be younger and such.  I always find it interesting to see an old couple and know that at some point they must have been madly in love.  Maybe show us some of that.
Def a good start, I would just develop all the characters a little more so we really care when something happens.


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Colkurtz8
Posted: August 16th, 2009, 3:58pm Report to Moderator
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Jack

Thanks for the read, comments and most importantly getting away from that formatting discussion.

"The grammar is wrong with the wife in the second sentence.  Does she lie beside him? Or snore beside him?  There's no verb other than is."

-- A fair point, although I try to cut out the use of "is" and "are" in my work where possible. Basically Nora is beside him in bed snoring. I thought I had enough there to suggest this, it can always be changed.

"page 4 'peter eyes on her purse'.  Should be 'eyes her purse' or 'Peter's eyes are on her purse'."

-- Correct, I meant to say "eyes her purse". I actually had that changed since I posted this.

"Does nora potter or putter at the bottom of page 4?"

-- Putter. Ha, I always thought it was potter, thanks for the education on that one. I can't help thinking now how many times I've used that in conversation and nobody checked me up over it.

P7 'I'd to do' I don't think you canor should contract 'I had' in this case.

-- True, but this is just a colloquial thing, as it describes how I would imagine her saying it. Take the Coen Bros script for "Fargo", it has lots of examples of this. Not correct spelling or grammar but its how the people spoke, so its pragmatic to write it that way.

"P9 its open should be it?s open.  Also days should be day's"

-- I'm always a little unsure concerning the application of "its" and "It's". As when I put in "It's" in this case Microsoft Word underlines it with green and tells me to write it as "Its" which is why I left it like that. I'm of the belief the apostrophe denotes the ownership of something, such as "David's car" or in this case "day's earnings", good call again on your part with that one, cheers.

I see what you’re saying about developing the relationship between Nora and Jim, you're not the first to say that. However I wanted to quantify their relationship between one another gradually over the course of story until the final reveal when we find out the medication is in fact for Nora, not Jim, thus really driving home the dependency and reliance in their marriage.

Instead of having a scene between the two in the morning, showing some kind of bond I tried to convey the value and state of their relationship through Jim's last day at work and his interactions with other people, like Chris and Mary, whilst cutting back to the house to show Nora making a special retirement dinner for her husband. Between Nora making the sign, Jim's surprise to take her away on a cruise and Mary talking about the times when she was babysat by Nora I attempted to conjure up this idea of a long, happy, fulfilling marriage. I find it less direct, less obvious but hopefully still getting the point across. I see it worked for some but not for others.

Also, the fact that Nora and Jim actually don’t have a speaking scene together further emphasises the tragedy that these two will never get a chance to speak to one another ever again. It’s the pain and regret of those things left unsaid between two loved ones, the planned cruise being an example, which Jim won’t get a chance to tell her about now, least of all actually go on it together.

Because it’s Nora who has the health troubles, I had her stay in bed at the start. Its Jim who is the sole provider, he is the one who has to put in the early mornings and work the hours. The extended morning scenes of Jim by himself going about his routine were to highlight this.

Thanks again for your remarks, Jack. If you have anything on here, let me know, I’d (there it is again) love to take a look.

Cheers

Col.


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Niles_Crane
Posted: September 15th, 2009, 12:34pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Col

As you have been good enough to read my work, I thought I'd respond in kind. This appears to have been your most recently posted work - and it is fantastic. A real gem of a story.

Now, from the start, I knew someone was going to die. It's a taken that when someone says "I'm going to do this or that when I retire" they ain't going to make it - but I loved the way you played with this expectation, so that when Jim seems to have a heart attack, the reader will think they're assumptions will be proven correct - only for you then to pull a double bluff on us and catch us with this ending.

Really great work.
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Inquiringmind
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It doesn't make sense to number the first page. The focus should be on the story but just for the record, some books, scripts etc number the first page.

It's a personal/publisher's choice. Yet it goes without saying that no reader will throw out your script just because you numbered the first page.

I have had this problem with my script. I couldn't figure out how to start numbering on the second page.

BTW I haven't read your script yet, I will tonight. Based on the reviews it should be good.
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 15th, 2009, 2:35pm Report to Moderator
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You should number every single page in GIANT red font.  Every 10th page should have a row of yellow stars on the top and bottom margins.  And of course, don't forget to have a picture of a Polar Bear cub somewhere inside your script.
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rendevous
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Do you really think that's gonna help? What about my beautiful eyes?

Sorry Col, still, bumps it back to the top of the portal so everyone wins.


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Inquiringmind
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Quoted from Dreamscale
You should number every single page in GIANT red font.  Every 10th page should have a row of yellow stars on the top and bottom margins.  And of course, don't forget to have a picture of a Polar Bear cub somewhere inside your script.
My title page is in giant red font! I'm not so sure about this Polar bear business but the yellow stars can stay.

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Colkurtz8
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Niles

Thanks for the read, man, happy you liked it. On the basis of the two pieces I read from you, I rank your opinion very highly. I'm glad you appreciated the significance and irony of Jim's feigned heart attack and the implications it ultimately bears in the end.

Thanks again for taking the time to read this.



Dreamscale, Rv, Inquiringmind

I see the page numbering issue has arisen once again.

I've actually made a point of looking at any new book I read and lo and behold!, the first page is not numbered. Even so, I'm not too pushed in fixing it in my scripts, as already mentioned, its not going to make or break your work getting picked up for production.

I'm liking the artistic flourishes at 10 page intervals though, DS, keep em coming.

Col.



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Colkurtz8  -  September 16th, 2009, 6:44pm
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Niles_Crane
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Funnily enough, I was talking today to a couple of Directors I know, and they expressed the opinion that, in general, they couldn't care less about minor formatting points such as page numbering, scene headers and so on. It's not what matters to them in a script - they are interested in the story and it's structure. Everything else is incidental to this.

I have read of Producers who will not read screenplays that have, for example, (CONTD) on the bottom of the page - but you have to ask yourself, if they are that stupid, that they'd possibly pass up the next "American Beauty" or "Fargo" because of a slight mistake in formatting, would you want them producing your movie anyway?
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Colkurtz8
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Yep, I completely concur with you on both points, Niles


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Dreamscale
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But let's keep in mind that rarely are these Directors the ones who are screening scripts from unproduced writers.  Directors come into the picture after an agency, ProdCo, Producer, or whatever entity it is, makes some decisions and forks over some dough.

Obviously, numbering or not numbering Page 1 of a script has nothing to do with the quality of the script or the writing in general.  But why buck the system for no reason?  Why not format your script exactly the way it's supposed to be?

My take on the whole thing is this...the better, more professional, and "correct" your script is, the more obvious it is that you know what you're doing and should be taken seriously.  That includes typos, spelling, grammar, formatting, passive verbiage, and use (hopefully non-use) of unfilmables.  Kind of like going on a job interview...you want to look your best and come across as professionally as you can.
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Niles_Crane
Posted: September 17th, 2009, 11:48am Report to Moderator
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Of course you are right - the more professional the script, the better, if only because it shows you take pride in your work and are serious about what you do. But it can be taken to extremes by some people - I have been told (not on SS, I should say) that if I don't do this, or that, my scripts will never be produced! I often get the impression that some people put form over content...

btw - one of the Directors I know owns her own Production company, and is currently reading my scripts - I've known her for a few years, and she always said that she would if I wrote again. We'll see where this leads!
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Dreamscale
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Sweet, Simon!  That's a great in.  Best of luck to you!

You're right as well...some people say this and that, while having no clue.  Scripts that are total pieces, and even written poorly get produced all the time.  You never know...
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Colkurtz8
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I hear what you're saying, Jeff. The interview process is an accurate analogy but I don't think numbering your first page ranks among the other "sins" of scriptwriting you categorized it with. But point taken all the same.

Oh, and nice one with that connexion too, Niles. Hopefully she can make something happen for you.


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Niles_Crane
Posted: September 17th, 2009, 3:08pm Report to Moderator
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Well, I would certainly say that anyone who reads this wonderful little script and then can only comment on something as minor as the numbering is clearly missing the point of writing!

Yes, I agree with Jeff - formatting can be important, making it look good and professional are obviously of high priority - but no one should spend their time thinking about this when they write. We are creative people - not typesetters!

To continue the interview comparison - yes, it is important to make a good impression when you enter the room - but let's not forget, you can wear an armani suit, but if you can't put a sentence together, you ain't going to get the job!

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I liked it. It started off a bit confusing for me, but as i moved on the script, i liked the way the story turned out. A nice read The ending was really good imo.
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Colkurtz8
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Alzidaney

Thanks for the read, mate, glad you liked it. What part confused you, if you don't mind my asking?


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alzidaney
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during my first read through, i didn't understand what it meant by "your golden years await". but its just me anw, i didnt know the terms they use for retirement and such. but as the story progressed i got to understand abit more why. and i think the title is really suiting though. its like, it adds to the emphasis that he has to be spending his "GOLDEN" years, but all alone.
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Colkurtz8
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Yeah, I understand what you mean. I've actually had reservations over the title myself, only for its so intrinsic to the story I probably would have changed it by now. Thanks for your input.


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Hey Col, I know I said I'd check this out at the weekend but I had some time.

I've not read over previous comments so sorry for any stupid questions.

You have a few short scenes with Jim early on, did you consider using a montage for these scenes?

You've had a lot of comments so I don't think you want to read a long drawn out review...or do you?

Anyway, I loved the way you flipped the ending.  I was sure Jim was going to pop his clogs on his final day so was surprised when it was his beloved wife, Nora.

Your descriptions are great and gave a good feel to the surroundings.  

Not sure about Peter and Eddie though, they seem to know about Jim but are then surprised that his book shop doesn't make a big profit, the till being almost empty.  Maybe I'm reading too much into their characters, junkies will do anything for a fix...so I'm told.

Anyway, I liked this, it was a nice story, well not nice as it was sad but you get what I mean.  I don't think this should warrant 12 pages, story wise but you make it work.  It didn't drag and despite the short page length, I felt for Jim and Nora.

Good work, thoroughly enjoyed it.


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Colkurtz8
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Alffy

Thanks for the read, bud, I'm happy you enjoyed it for the most part.

"You have a few short scenes with Jim early on, did you consider using a montage for these scenes?"

-- Not really, a filmmaker I was talking to about possibly developing the script did bring it up. Could be something worth doing, effective if done right but, no, it wasn't something I envisaged when writing it.

"You've had a lot of comments so I don't think you want to read a long drawn out review...or do you?"

-- No, man, your fine, was just looking to get your honest, overall opinion which is what you gave.

"Anyway, I loved the way you flipped the ending.  I was sure Jim was going to pop his clogs on his final day so was surprised when it was his beloved wife, Nora."

-- Yeah, that was revelation I attempted to spring on the audience without them ever expecting it. Thankfully it seemed to work for most readers.

"Not sure about Peter and Eddie though, they seem to know about Jim but are then surprised that his book shop doesn't make a big profit, the till being almost empty.  Maybe I'm reading too much into their characters, junkies will do anything for a fix...so I'm told."

-- A fair point, you're not the first to comment on it, but like you say "junkies will do anything for a fix..." This was the basis for me taking the script in the direction it went. You hear of stories like this all the time where a couple of...no-gooders we'll call them, (I find the term, even though I used it myself, "Junkies"  a bit crass) rob shops of all kinds for a few quid, typically smash and grab raids which is what these two were planning here.

It seems in most cases they go for the soft touch behind the counter, an old person or a women, rather then actually landing a big score. It just so happened that Jim's takings for his final day were particularly meagre.

Thanks again for taking the time to look at this and as I said, if you got anything you want me to read, don't hesitate to ask.

Col.


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Craiger6
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Hi Col,

Well this one certainly tugs on the heart strings doesn't it?  

From the get go, as a reader, I think you are waiting for the other shoe to drop from the start.  That said, i enjoyed the misdirection with Jim faking the heart attack only to see Nora eventually felled by one.  In fact I was waiting/hoping that this was some sort of family trick that they had planned in advance should they ever be attacked by a mugger.  That said, I appreciate that you didn't take the "happily ever after route".  This is much more effective.

My only other gripe which I think someone else touched on was the dialouge between the addicts.  I thought it was passable, but maybe too spot on.

Anyway, all in all I enjoyed this very much.

Thanks,
Craig


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Colkurtz8
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Craig

Thank you for the read. Yeah, my idea was to lead the reader into thinking that Jim is going to kick it, the medication (which you assume he's takin) and the introduction of the "addicts" spell big trouble on the horizon. It nice to hear the twist worked for you. Not so sure about the family trick thing but in a way, Chris is the intervening factor who diffuses the situation, saves the day even, until Nora arrives on the scene.

Yeah, you're not the first to comment of the two guy's dialogue, I'll look into it.

Once again, I appreciate you taking the time, cheers. Let me know if there is any of yours you would like me to look at.

Col.


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ajr
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Okay, we ADD people can't read through 87 comments...  

Col,

I liked this one. Definitely seems out of your wheelhouse - i.e., it's not a cool, hip, sharp little script, but I think it demonstrates your versatility as a writer...

The first few comments talked about this being over-written - was it? Perhaps, but then again, it's not meant to be READ. I think if everyone would go back and read the narrative and really SEE them, the scenes like Jim clutching his present leap to life. I can see it being filmed, and that's due to your enormous attention to detail, so well done there.

Should I say spoilers at this point? What an absolute heartbreaking last page! I felt Jim's pain. Again, it leapt off the page, so wonderful job there.

The only two questions I have are - one, are the drug addicts normally part of this neighborhood? You do have a line in there about them not wanting to go back to the city. And you are painstaking in painting an idyllic surroundings - the picket fence, the cute bookshop, etc. So they seemed out of place. In other words, if they were an expected danger from time to time, the neighborhood would not be so idyllic.

The only other thing I wondered about was Nora coming to pick Jim up - it seemed like they were going to go someplace after he closed up, yet she had set a nice table, etc.?

Again, great job -


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Colkurtz8
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Thanks fro the taking the time, man. Glad you liked it and connected with Jim’s tragedy on the final page.

You're right, it’s perhaps a tad overwritten but that was intended for pacing and build up rather then over indulgence. I've been rightfully accused of over writing many times before so it’s something I try to keep and handle on.

“The only two questions I have are - one, are the drug addicts normally part of this neighborhood? You do have a line in there about them not wanting to go back to the city.

-- No, they are just passing through. That line about wanting to get away from the city for awhile was to suggest they are laying low for the time being. Maybe a deal went bad, maybe they owe money, maybe they’re in trouble with the cops, who knows, I left it open for interpretation.


“And you are painstaking in painting an idyllic surroundings - the picket fence, the cute bookshop, etc. So they seemed out of place. In other words, if they were an expected danger from time to time, the neighborhood would not be so idyllic.””

-- Hopefully the first part answers this in that they are not part of the neighbourhood. Still, even if they were it doesn’t mean a place can’t look idyllic. There is every possibility that a nice town like this could harbour an mostly unseen, lurking criminal element. Every town has its dark secrets, its rough areas, it’s undesirable residence. Look at Blue Velvet for example, one of the central themes of the film (and something that Lynch has explored in other works) is this dismantling of a perceived, sleepy, harmless town by the presence of Booth and his cronies. How a typically, outwardly appearing, peaceful town (picket fence as standard as shown in the opening shots) can contain such a force of sheer violence and depravity within its streets and buildings.


The only other thing I wondered about was Nora coming to pick Jim up - it seemed like they were going to go someplace after he closed up, yet she had set a nice table, etc.?

-- An understandable question. The reason I had Nora pick up Jim is because it’s his last day, a momentous occasion in both their lives. Something she may want to share with him as he closes the doors for the last time, to be with him as he walks away from his lifelong livelihood forever. Also, to save the man having to walk home the day he closes his shop for good, even if it is only a short distance.

Thanks again for the read, Anthony. Much appreciated.

Cheers

Col.


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Electric Dreamer
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I just finished your most recent update, so thought I would check this out.
I like the story and the pacing, you got me with Jim faking a heart attack.
I felt bad about Nora and appreciate the symbolism of the book.
Bad things happen to good people, bummer, but well executed.
One typo really stood out, "potter", I think you meant, "putter around".


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Colkurtz8
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ED

Thanks again for the read, you're too kind.

Yep, bad things happen to good people and sometimes the best intentions can have the most tragic of consequences.

With regards the typo, that was pointed it out to me some time ago but well spotted nonetheless. This is an old draft; it has undergone a polish or two since then.

Thanks again for the read and once again let me know if you want me to return the favour. Feel free to PM me.

Cheers.

Col.


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KevinLenihan
Posted: July 11th, 2013, 9:23am Report to Moderator
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Nice touch of irony encapsulating a sentimental tale.

A fake heart attack prevents a confrontation at the door, allowing the bad guys to flee, but resulting in a situation outside which leads to his wife having a fatal heart attack.

The only part about the Robinson Crusoe idea that didn't work, maybe, was the fact that Jim loved his book shop.

Moving portrayal.
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Colkurtz8
Posted: July 12th, 2013, 6:46pm Report to Moderator
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Kevin

Thanks for checking this out, it’s been a while since I've gone back to this script.

Yeah, I thought the tragic irony of the fake heart attack worked rather nicely. The meds at the beginning were meant to throw the reader into assuming they were for Jim, only at the end do we see Nora’s name on the label.

The Robinson Crusoe reference was more because I read somewhere that it was the first novel ever published and of course it’s an adventure tale which I intended to mirror Jim's venture onto retirement and their impending holiday.

Yes, Jim is sad to see the shop go, understandably too but I tried to convey that there is also a part of him looking forward to his golden years. For my experience with folk of that vintage (i.e. my own father this year) entering retirement brings about mixed feelings for the individual.

Thanks again, man.

Col.


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MarkRenshaw
Posted: August 9th, 2014, 2:44pm Report to Moderator
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Wow! That was really good. I know I'm a bit late to the party but really enjoyed this. Touching characters I cared about, realistic dialogue, some nice touches of misdirection and it was powerful, sad.

I struggle to come up with any suggestions really, there's nothing wrong with the formatting and it read really well. It's a great story and looks cheap to produce.

My only thought was as I read through it I felt the tension could have been introduced sooner. My thoughts were 'Well this is nice, pleasent, a guy is retiring - but are we going to just be a fly on the wall for this trip?' It was only after about three minutes I realised something more was going to happen and then I got really interested. Not sure if you could introduce that menace a bit earlier but may be worth considering. Three minutes is nothing in a feature but in a short it can be a lifetime if the audience loses interest.

Just a suggestion though, that's a top script!


For more of my scripts, stories, produced movies and the ocassional blog, check out my new website. CLICK
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Colkurtz8
Posted: August 10th, 2014, 4:34am Report to Moderator
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Mark

Thanks for you comments, glad it worked for you.

I see what you mean about it taking its time to get going. I wanted to set the scene, familiarize the reader with the character so when things do pick up we will care about him and what eventually happens. Point taken though, you're not the first to mention it.

Thanks again for taking the time.

Col.


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JonP
Posted: February 5th, 2015, 5:28am Report to Moderator
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It's well-written which made for an enjoyable read.  Your formatting conventions are stronger than mine, so I have nothing to add there.  I would like to focus on the story itself.

I was confused about the setting.  Being an American, initially I assumed I was in an American small town (a bit of ethnocentrism I suppose), but some of the cues seemed off.  Then I saw the Euro symbol and realized I wasn't in Kansas anymore.  I never got a good sense of where I was, except that it was a small town.  Was that intentional?

The other thing I assumed was that the heart medication was Jim's.  I'm pretty certain that was intentional and it was a nice twist to learn it was Nora's.  The selection of Robinson Caruso was poignant.

What didn't work for me was the 2nd half of the climax with Nora.  She has the presence of mind to lock the doors, but not to drive off?  Doesn't ring true to me.  Either she's a small town naif and does neither, or she's a savvy city-dweller and does both.

Maybe she swerves to miss Peter and Eddie and hits something?  Now she's a bit dazed and can't easily drive off.  When she sees them coming at her, the natural thing would be to lock her doors.

Anyway, good job.


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Colkurtz8
Posted: February 6th, 2015, 8:52am Report to Moderator
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Jon

Thanks for digging this up, tis been knocking around for awhile.


Quoted from JonP
I was confused about the setting.  Being an American, initially I assumed I was in an American small town (a bit of ethnocentrism I suppose), but some of the cues seemed off.  Then I saw the Euro symbol and realized I wasn't in Kansas anymore.  I never got a good sense of where I was, except that it was a small town.  Was that intentional?


- Ha, yes indeed, you are not in the midwest any more! I'm Irish and this is set in a small Irish town. People from there would recognize it and the characters. Bloody Americans always assume it’s about them, center of the world and all that

Still, you're point about the lack of clarity in terms of knowing where its set is a valid one as I consciously try to keep my scripts as geographically neutral as possible. Unless it informs the story, I like to think they could just as easily be adapted to take place anywhere...within reason of course.


Quoted from JonP
The other thing I assumed was that the heart medication was Jim's.  I'm pretty certain that was intentional and it was a nice twist to learn it was Nora's.  The selection of Robinson Caruso was poignant.


- Yup, that was totally intentional. Showing the medication at the beginning (but not the label) then seeing Jim fill the tumbler with water was intended to give the impression it was for him when in fact he was doing it for Nora. Yeah, The Robinson Crusoe reference may be a little heavy handed, it ties in with the travelling motif (Jim and Nora's planned holiday) but I chose it primarily because it’s considered to be one the earliest novels to be published so it would hold a special place for a literary aficionado like Jim


Quoted from JonP
What didn't work for me was the 2nd half of the climax with Nora.  She has the presence of mind to lock the doors, but not to drive off?  Doesn't ring true to me.  Either she's a small town naif and does neither, or she's a savvy city-dweller and does both.

Maybe she swerves to miss Peter and Eddie and hits something?  Now she's a bit dazed and can't easily drive off.  When she sees them coming at her, the natural thing would be to lock her doors.


- Sorry this part didn't work for you. My reasoning for Nora's reaction was that she locks the doors in her panic, that knee jerk reflex, but is then seized by her weak heart before she can do anything else. And of course locking the doors ends up working against her and makes it all the more tragic. Plus, the fact that Jim fakes a heart attack (at this time we still think it’s his medicine) to scare off Peter and Eddie which inadvertently sends them (literally) on a collision course with Nora. I liked playing with that kind of tragic irony, the knock on effects of actions and their consequences.

She could swerve and crash into something else but I figured her knocking Peter and Eddie down would carry the most visceral impact, both visually and to shock Nora into a heart attack. First she hits these two strangers before they pick themselves up to go attack her, knife in hand. That’s pretty traumatic sh?t right there!

Anyway, thanks for the read, really appreciate it. I see you have just posted a script. I will return the favour before the weekend is out.

Col.


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RichardR
Posted: February 7th, 2015, 9:05am Report to Moderator
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Col,

All comments should be taken with a dose of salt.  If they work, claim them.

Generally, I don't like stories that begin with an alarm clock ringing.  It's a personal thing.  For the most part, I think the opening is cliche and unnecessary.  This one is an exception for two reasons.  The calendar is a bookend for the story, and the heart medicine is a setup for the fake and real heart attacks later.

I think som of the stuff about the town is unnecessary.  The audience will infer that shops open, and people start moving.  Since most of it won't come back into play later, I don't see using it.  

The thugs are necessary, but a bit too on the nose for me.  

the rest is fine.  The reversals are nice.  The irony works for me.  Nice job.

Richard
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Colkurtz8
Posted: February 8th, 2015, 4:39am Report to Moderator
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Richard

Thanks for taking the time to read this.


Quoted from RichardR
Col,Generally, I don't like stories that begin with an alarm clock ringing.  It's a personal thing.  For the most part, I think the opening is cliche and unnecessary.  This one is an exception for two reasons.  The calendar is a bookend for the story, and the heart medicine is a setup for the fake and real heart attacks later.


- Ha, glad you were able to get past your aversion and see they were there for reasons other than merely signalling the beginning of a day.


Quoted from RichardR
I think som of the stuff about the town is unnecessary.  The audience will infer that shops open, and people start moving.  Since most of it won't come back into play later, I don't see using it.


- Really, that was a issue for you? Its only two lines. They are there to give a sense of place and atmosphere, to set the scene. I don't see a problem with dedicating some white space to that in your script. Not every line needs to be loaded with portent or to-be-revealed significance.


Quoted from RichardR
The thugs are necessary, but a bit too on the nose for me.


- True they are your classic desperate scumbags out to make a quick buck but like you say they were necessary for the story, to set the chain of events in motion. However, as influential as they are, they are a periphery part of what the script is about.


Quoted from RichardR
the rest is fine.  The reversals are nice.  The irony works for me.  Nice job.


- Thanks, I'm happy some of it worked for you. Thanks again for your thoughts.

Col.


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JonP
Posted: February 8th, 2015, 7:41am Report to Moderator
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Col,

I've been thinking about your short and it would make a good Act I for a feature.  Nora's death as the inciting incident.  Instead of going on a cruise, it could be plane tickets to some exotic locale, like Thailand.

You could show how helpless Jim is taking care of himself having not been a bachelor for decades.  Jim's friends encourage him to get off his butt and go on the trip anyway.  Maybe the sun and surf will do him good.  The house feels like it's closing in on him, so he agrees.

The place is nice-enough, but he can't really enjoy himself doing regular tourist activities.  Plus, the culture is so fascinating to him.  Instead of experiencing life outside his small town vicariously through a book, he finally has a chance to experience it directly.

So he wanders outside the vacation resort bubble and volunteers to read for the local children who want to learn English.  It rekindles something in him that he dearly misses.  He hasn't felt this alive in years.  He meets a single mom who's fond of him, but he feels guilty about returning her affection.  

He goes back home, but he just can't settle in.  He's too haunted.  His friends insist he needs to move on and not torture himself.  Nora would want him to.  So he sells the house and relocates there.

...Or something like that.  Plenty of directions you could take it in.


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Colkurtz8
Posted: February 9th, 2015, 7:56am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from JonP
I've been thinking about your short and it would make a good Act I for a feature.  Nora's death as the inciting incident.  Instead of going on a cruise, it could be plane tickets to some exotic locale, like Thailand.

You could show how helpless Jim is taking care of himself having not been a bachelor for decades.  Jim's friends encourage him to get off his butt and go on the trip anyway.  Maybe the sun and surf will do him good.  The house feels like it's closing in on him, so he agrees.

The place is nice-enough, but he can't really enjoy himself doing regular tourist activities.  Plus, the culture is so fascinating to him.  Instead of experiencing life outside his small town vicariously through a book, he finally has a chance to experience it directly.

So he wanders outside the vacation resort bubble and volunteers to read for the local children who want to learn English.  It rekindles something in him that he dearly misses.  He hasn't felt this alive in years.  He meets a single mom who's fond of him, but he feels guilty about returning her affection.  

He goes back home, but he just can't settle in.  He's too haunted.  His friends insist he needs to move on and not torture himself.  Nora would want him to.  So he sells the house and relocates there.

...Or something like that.  Plenty of directions you could take it in.


- Interesting ideas here, Jon, thanks for sharing. To be honest, I never thought about expanding this as I see it as a self contained story. That's not to say it couldn't be done either though.

What you suggest sounds something along the lines of About Schmidt, a film I love but I would need to inject some humour here, a lightness. As its written, the tone is too po-faced and serious for a story of Jim embarking on this second life of sorts. By that same token, I don't want it becoming some Eat Pray Love drivel or a retiree's Into the Wild. In other words, a film in which an over privileged, self-satisfied protagonist "find themselves". Nothing worse than following those kind of people around for two hours.

It could be a poignant and at times funny story to take on alright, I'm just not of the vintage yet to fully appreciate and understand that character and take them on such a journey. I do like the teaching English angle though as that's what I'm currently doing myself at the moment in Taiwan.

Thanks again for your suggestions.

Col.


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Colkurtz8
Posted: February 9th, 2015, 8:03am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from JonP
I've been thinking about your short and it would make a good Act I for a feature.  Nora's death as the inciting incident.  Instead of going on a cruise, it could be plane tickets to some exotic locale, like Thailand.

You could show how helpless Jim is taking care of himself having not been a bachelor for decades.  Jim's friends encourage him to get off his butt and go on the trip anyway.  Maybe the sun and surf will do him good.  The house feels like it's closing in on him, so he agrees.

The place is nice-enough, but he can't really enjoy himself doing regular tourist activities.  Plus, the culture is so fascinating to him.  Instead of experiencing life outside his small town vicariously through a book, he finally has a chance to experience it directly.

So he wanders outside the vacation resort bubble and volunteers to read for the local children who want to learn English.  It rekindles something in him that he dearly misses.  He hasn't felt this alive in years.  He meets a single mom who's fond of him, but he feels guilty about returning her affection.  

He goes back home, but he just can't settle in.  He's too haunted.  His friends insist he needs to move on and not torture himself.  Nora would want him to.  So he sells the house and relocates there.

...Or something like that.  Plenty of directions you could take it in.


- Interesting ideas here, Jon, thanks for sharing. To be honest, I never thought about expanding this as I see it as a self contained story. That's not to say it couldn't be done either though.

What you suggest sounds something along the lines of About Schmidt, a film I love but I would need to inject some humour here, a lightness. As its written, the tone is too po-faced and serious for a story of Jim embarking on this second life of sorts. By that same token, I don't want it becoming some Eat Pray Love drivel or a retiree's Into the Wild. In other words, a film in which an over privileged, self-satisfied protagonist "find themselves". Nothing worse than following those kind of people around for two hours.

It could be a poignant and at times funny story to take on alright, I'm just not of the vintage yet to fully appreciate and understand that character and take them on such a journey. I do like the teaching English angle though as that's what I'm currently doing myself at the moment in Taiwan and it would tie in nicely with his character.

Thanks again for your suggestions.

Col.


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JonP
Posted: February 12th, 2015, 5:54am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Colkurtz8


- Interesting ideas here, Jon, thanks for sharing. To be honest, I never thought about expanding this as I see it as a self contained story. That's not to say it couldn't be done either though.

What you suggest sounds something along the lines of About Schmidt, a film I love but I would need to inject some humour here, a lightness. As its written, the tone is too po-faced and serious for a story of Jim embarking on this second life of sorts. By that same token, I don't want it becoming some Eat Pray Love drivel or a retiree's Into the Wild. In other words, a film in which an over privileged, self-satisfied protagonist "find themselves". Nothing worse than following those kind of people around for two hours.

It could be a poignant and at times funny story to take on alright, I'm just not of the vintage yet to fully appreciate and understand that character and take them on such a journey. I do like the teaching English angle though as that's what I'm currently doing myself at the moment in Taiwan and it would tie in nicely with his character.

Thanks again for your suggestions.

Col.


Yes, I was thinking of a take on About Schmidt.  Yeah, I agree with the privileged finding-oneself annoyance, unless you make fun of them and their privileged ethnocentric sensibilities.

You may not be old yet, but that doesn't mean you can't write about old people.  Hell, you wrote the short, didn't you?  I'm not a woman or a vampire (I swear), but I wrote about them.


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Colkurtz8
Posted: February 12th, 2015, 7:48am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from JonP
You may not be old yet, but that doesn't mean you can't write about old people.  Hell, you wrote the short, didn't you?  I'm not a woman or a vampire (I swear), but I wrote about them.


Ha, true, a short is one thing though, a feature is a different beast. Of course if we all strictly wrote about "what we know" storytelling would be very dull indeed.



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Mr.Z
Posted: March 31st, 2015, 4:55pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Col,

Just finished this. And I think it was well written in the sense that it's exactly what you wanted it to be. A drama about likable characters with some touching moments and a sad ending. You had me with the fake heart attack and then the twist.

I don't have a problem with the ending being a downer, but I do have a nitpick about it. Personally, I like tragic endings that tie to an overarching theme somehow. Like, the character has a flaw he can't overcome so he meets a fatal fate, making the story a cautionary tale. Here (unless I missed something, which I do a lot, especially with dramas), the protagonist's fate seems to be the result of chance; a couple of junkies happened to rob his store that day. It's believable; that's life, this kind of shit happens everyday. My point is, the difference between a sad story and a sad event you read on the news is that the story usually makes a point (theme) with its tragic ending. And in this tale, while well written, that additional layer of the tragic outcome seems to be missing.

But hey, just one guy's opinion. Just throwing it out there in case it's useful. Well done, though. And best of luck with it.  


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Colkurtz8
Posted: April 3rd, 2015, 7:59am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Mr.Z
Hey Col,

Just finished this. And I think it was well written in the sense that it's exactly what you wanted it to be. A drama about likable characters with some touching moments and a sad ending. You had me with the fake heart attack and then the twist.

I don't have a problem with the ending being a downer, but I do have a nitpick about it. Personally, I like tragic endings that tie to an overarching theme somehow. Like, the character has a flaw he can't overcome so he meets a fatal fate, making the story a cautionary tale. Here (unless I missed something, which I do a lot, especially with dramas), the protagonist's fate seems to be the result of chance; a couple of junkies happened to rob his store that day. It's believable; that's life, this kind of shit happens everyday. My point is, the difference between a sad story and a sad event you read on the news is that the story usually makes a point (theme) with its tragic ending. And in this tale, while well written, that additional layer of the tragic outcome seems to be missing.

But hey, just one guy's opinion. Just throwing it out there in case it's useful. Well done, though. And best of luck with it.  


- Thanks for the taking the time, Matias.

You bring up a very valid point and I can't argue with it but yes I was going for the more straight tragic narrative. Good things happen to bad people, bad things happen to good people...plus the other two options

This was very much about a series of events, small moments, some well intention-ed, some misguided, some seemingly insignificance which when connected, ultimately lead to a tragic conclusion.

Jim deciding to put out the "Everything must go" sign which piques the interest of the two guys passing by, to Chris's jacket falling off the chair which makes him forget it so he ends up having to come back thus interrupting the robbery, to Jim faking a heart attack which inadvertently sends the two guys on a collision course with his weak-hearted wife.

It was all to give a sense of "sh?t happens" in the most unlikeliest ways but I hoped the reader would have enough invested in the characters to add weight to the nature of the tragedy. To let you see the process happen without it feeling contrived or mechanical as if its merely designed with the sole intent to depress you. It was all about striking that balance between random coincidences and a natural if somewhat disparate chain of occurrences. That you could believe something like this could happen.

I always wanted Jim to be an all around good guy who, like us all, is powerless to the indiscriminate wheel of chance. Inserting some character flaw to justify his ordeal would have betrayed what I was going for. However, like I said at the top, I totally see where you are coming from too.

So it probably won't surprise you that I don't believe in a grand cosmic design, an interventionist supreme being or karma. In my experience, what goes around certainly doesn't always come around. It often stays going

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Col.


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