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  Author    Soulshadows II: Riches  (currently 5358 views)
Don
Posted: October 12th, 2009, 5:16pm Report to Moderator
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Soulshadows II: Riches by Stephen Brown (stebrown) (Tanis by Robert Newcomer) - Series, Supernatural - Charlie Bloom vowed never to gamble again after taking the money from the family's savings account but when a mysterious coin comes into his possession can he stick to his word? - pdf, format

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Don  -  October 12th, 2009, 6:39pm
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 12th, 2009, 7:40pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Ste, long time, bud, hope all is well.

I started reading this and immediately got the feeling that I’d read it before.  When I finished, I checked my deleted E-mails and found that you did indeed send me a synopsis and scene listing, so I kind of laughed and was happy that I wasn’t losing it completely.  I also read my comments I gave you back in July, and I still feel the same way, basically.

I think the main issues here, IMO, are twofold:  story/premise is underdeveloped, and characters are also underdeveloped.  At 25 pages, I wasn’t sure at first how either could be, but I think I’ve got it figured out now.  Here’s what I think…

It’s basically ½ way into the script before we even get into the story, and that means you’ve only got about 11 pages after that to work your story and characters.  I don’t think it’s enough in this case.

A bigger issue is the way you chose to “write” this.  You used an awful lot of 1 line passages, meaning there are an awful lot of blank lines after only 1 line of text.  Also a lot of passages that barely spilled onto the next line, meaning they’re basically 1 line passages that actually take up 2 lines, and then a blank line. It read really fast, but I think that’s because there’s not a lot of actual text.

I didn’t feel like I knew much about anyone and because of that, I really didn’t feel connected to any of them, nor was I routing for them, or overly concerned with their demise.  No one felt overly unique or even interesting, and that’s an issue for sure.

As I said originally, I think that the coin’s “curse” doesn’t really tie into its winning ways.  What I mean is that in order for the premise to work, I think every time the coin’s owner wins with it, something bad has to happen almost immediately, so we “see” that there are consequences when the owner “uses” it.  Bad things seem to happen rather randomly, and not all the time, and for me, that’s an issue, as I don’t even think that Charlie, or anyone else, would even tie the death of his friend or the fire to the coin and it’s abilities.

Another issue was with the setup, It appears that Charlie lost all this money and was basically kicked out of the house.  I would have to assume that means he lost quite a bit of cash for it to be such an issue.  Although he could easily win any amount back, based on the coin, but by just handing over a wad of cash to Em, it doesn’t seem possible that it could be that much money.  And on top of this, it would imply that Charlie has been gambling quite a bit and winning every time, which ties back into what I said about the consequences, which don’t seem to be occurring on a regular basis.

It would be far more interesting a script if we saw what happened each time he won.  Maybe start off slowly with small things going wrong after a win, and then increase the consequences each time.  That way, it would be a struggle for Charlie, and he’d have to make a choice…is it worth it to “win” a bet?  How much do you “pay” to gain riches?  What is the level of acceptability, and where do you draw the line?

As I said originally, I do like the idea here and feel it could be a strong and compelling script.  It’s not a new idea and feels like a modern day retelling of “The Monkey’s Paw”, or any of the hundred or so spinoffs of that theme.  I’m not saying that’s such a bad thing, but based on the way it’s handled here, I just don’t think it works the way it could…or should.

Hope that helps, Mate, and sorry for not being more positive.  I do think this could be something special though…I just think it needs some more work to get there.
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steven8
Posted: October 13th, 2009, 3:09am Report to Moderator
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Hi Ste,

I remember reading an early draft of yours for this (or maybe a rough idea), and it opened in a cemetery, where our lead character received the coin.  If I recall right, that opening made him aware that the coin both gave and took away from it's users.  I think that is what's lacking in this version.  I believe it would draw the viewers in more if it were made clear up front to Charlie that this coin is to be used at great risk, and he STILL made the decision to do it.

Perhaps something as simple as having the drunk say that the coin had not only given him everything he wanted, but taken away everything he loved.

Charlie could put that off as the raving of a drunken man, then find him dead with the picture in his hands, and plant the seed of fear in the back of his mind.  it would be there, right below the surface as he weighed the idea of fighting his gambling urge, and need to win back his son and wife, against the the drunk said.

I believe it would add so much more to the tail.  

It is written just fine.  Pretty clear and concise, with natural dialog.  The exchanges with his wife and son were very good.  The pacing was fine, but it lacked in the tension department.  I think you were trying to build that with the line by line description on the fruit machine segment, but without the seed of doubt in the back of his mind, and some sweat on his brow, I think it didn't carry the weight that you hoped.


...in no particular order

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steven8  -  October 13th, 2009, 3:39am
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stebrown
Posted: October 14th, 2009, 6:08pm Report to Moderator
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First off, thanks to Don, Michael and the people at IScript. I thought they did really well with it. Secondly, thanks to Bert for Tanis.

Jeff

Thanks for the read and your advice.


Quoted from Dreamscale


A bigger issue is the way you chose to �write� this.  You used an awful lot of 1 line passages, meaning there are an awful lot of blank lines after only 1 line of text.  Also a lot of passages that barely spilled onto the next line, meaning they�re basically 1 line passages that actually take up 2 lines, and then a blank line. It read really fast, but I think that�s because there�s not a lot of actual text.



I don't really follow you about this. A screenplay is supposed to be as bare bones as possible, yeah?
I don't see how it can be a problem that some descriptions are only 1 or 2 lines. If the description is one shot it should be one paragraph. I haven't changed anything really to do with how I wrote this so I'm not too sure what you mean.


Quoted from Dreamscale


As I said originally, I think that the coin�s �curse� doesn�t really tie into its winning ways.  What I mean is that in order for the premise to work, I think every time the coin�s owner wins with it, something bad has to happen almost immediately, so we �see� that there are consequences when the owner �uses� it.  Bad things seem to happen rather randomly, and not all the time, and for me, that�s an issue, as I don�t even think that Charlie, or anyone else, would even tie the death of his friend or the fire to the coin and it�s abilities.



Totally agree with you there. Originally, I was going to have bad things happening every time he wins a bet. The problems I had with that though was thinking of bad things and people for those bad things to happen to. I was trying to think of an accident involving Emily after Charlie wins on the bandit but couldn't think of anything that seemed realistic. Also, I was going to throw in a sick mother who would die, maybe another character too, but for any of that to matter I would have to develop those characters. For a 25 page script I was worried about having too many characters.


Quoted from Dreamscale


Hope that helps, Mate, and sorry for not being more positive.



No worries fella, you're just giving your opinion and I appreciate it.

Thanks again.


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stebrown
Posted: October 14th, 2009, 6:14pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the read Steven.


Quoted from steven8


Perhaps something as simple as having the drunk say that the coin had not only given him everything he wanted, but taken away everything he loved.



That was one of my main doubts about the scipt. Should I make Charlie aware of the dangers from the start. I decided to go for the option of allowing the audience/reader to know the dangers but Charlie being ignorant of them. Therefore setting Charlie up for a fall that we all see coming. I'm still unsure as to which would work better but I take your opinion on board.

Cheers for checking it out.


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Dreamscale
Posted: October 14th, 2009, 6:51pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Ste, for some reason, I'm unable to open your script up now, so I can't verify anything, but I wanted to try and explain what I meant about there not being much text...

I was referring to why I felt that the characters and story were undeveloped.  You've got roughly 25 pages here I think, and only 5 real characters, meaning that one would think you've got more than enough room to fully develop the characters and story.

I'm not saying in any way that what you've done is incorrect or wrong, but I bet if you do a word count, you'll find that you're average is quite low, on a page by page basis, meaning that although it's 25 pages, it reads and plays out more like it's 20 or so. And with the Tanis parts, it's probably closer to 15 or so.

I agree 100% that scripts should be bare bones, etc., but in a short, you've got to utilize your pages as efficiently as possible, because you only have so many to work with.

Obviously, word count varies greatly, based on writing style, amount of action/description lines, dialogue (especially how long the dialogue lines are), and many other things.  I doubt there’s a “norm” out there, but I think you should probably average around 200 words per page, when you look at the entire script.  I did a quick check and looked at a few scripts, and found word counts per page from a low of 165 to a high of 320, but the majority fell into the 175-225 range.

Check yours out and see if I’m right.  Maybe I’m way off base here.  Should be interesting at least.

See ya.
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stebrown
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Cheers Jeff.

Just taken another look at the script and worked out the average word count per page and it's just over 181.


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Dreamscale
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That's cool, Ste, Guess it's not as low as I thought, which kinda blows my theory, huh?

Not sure what the deal is then.  Maybe it's just that the opening scene played too long and took up too much room.

Take care.
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alffy
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Hey Ste, got to this tonight as the misses is watching X-factor lol.

I've got to second Jeff's thoughts sbout the slow beginning.  If this were a feature I'd see no problem but set up is tadge long for a short.  I liked the opening and shortening it could take away from Charlie's 'down on his luck' background, touch one really.

There was a real chemistry between Charlie and his son and the pain of not being there for him came across.

I thought Charlies decision to make the ulimate sacrifice was made a little too quickly.

Overall, I liked the story but I think it suffered from the page limit.  Charlie was a believable character and his remorse for his wrong doings seemed genuine, I thought there might have been a bit more about the background of the coin but again I think there wasn't really time for this.  I did like the ending, a little chilling thought that Daniel was now in possesion of the coin.

Oh and noticed you dropped in the Newcastle shirt, nice touch lol.


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Niles_Crane
Posted: October 18th, 2009, 2:35am Report to Moderator
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Hi Ste

As promised...

#I felt that the intro was a little too long - I know that the format demands an intro by Tanis, but it seems to take ages to get to the point! We have a page of her tossing a coin - so over a minute of screen time probably!

# Tire is the US spelling.

# The opening scene in the car with Daniel and Charlie is very Hollywood - even down to the hair ruffling!

# I didn't get any sense of where we are. America? Newcastle? While I know some writers dislike being too specific as it may all get rewritten/relocated anyway, I felt that this was set no where - it's not just the fact that you don't describe your locations much - the speech patterns are bland, and don't sound like they are from anywhere! The use of "Mam" in this respect jarred - it sounds very Northern, and yet nothing else suggested this.

# Having now reached page seven, I am wondering when the story will begin. As a horror/supernatural story, this needs to move a bit faster. There is no sense that this is anything other than a domestic drama. This may be intentional, as obviously, it will help ground the supernatural element later, but it also risks losing the interest of the viewer.

Cutting to the house during the pub scene seemed particularly pointless here. I realise it is so you can return to the pub at a different time. A better way to have done this would have been to have a close up of the TV football game, and a time dissolve - indicated by the scoreline.

# The drunk sobered up pretty quickly - maybe it would have been better if he had not been quite so smashed in the earlier scene, as it didn't seem likely he'd even be conscious by the end of the day let alone able to talk like this!

# Wouldn't this pub have some other staff other than just Charlie? It struck me as odd that he closed up on his own.

# I couldn't see a Policeman smiling at Charlie, given the circumstances. Maybe bored indifference would have worked better! Or have him a youngster who has never done it before, and is nervous?

# Having him find the pound coin on the floor just confused things for me - I had to re-read it to understand that he wasn't putting the magic coin in the machine. This scene is probably a bit too over described all round actually.

# There's a bit at the scene at Newcastle FC that confused me too - it seems to suggest, the way it is written, that there is a bookies in the ground! I assume that it is on the corner, near the stadium?

The use of EXT here is a problem all round - technically, although they are outside while sitting in the ground, it is still an INT I think (I may be wrong) - using EXT suggests to me that they are outside the ground altogether! Perhaps INT/EXT?

# The way the coin works is inconsistent. When Charlie won on the slot machine he didn't get any comeback, when he won on the horses, Sam is run over almost immediately (which I assumed to be karma for the win?), when he won on the game, again nothing seemed to happen. The next time we have the linked payback is when the coin works in the Casino. Really, some kind of karma is needed everytime or it just seems odd.

# Why does the Dealer smile to himself when Charlie wins? And why does Charlie have a "lewd" expression on his face?!

# The scene with the Nurse and her reaction seemed out of place - what was it's purpose?

I felt that, overall, this was an interesting - if not new - idea. But the script needed tightening up, as it takes too long to get going, and some inconsistencies need addressing.

If there is a karmic payback everytime Charlie wins, then it would reinforce the point of the story. And if Charlie doesn't care when it happens to others, and then it happens to his family he realises the price the coin requires, that would work better, I think.

I'd also suggest that Emily should die and Daniel alone be fighting for his life (I'd also drop the burns magically healing). If the coin dropped unnoticed, and then Charlie kills himself, out of guilt, the Nurse whose appearance is so out of place, could serve a purpose by finding the coin and placing it beside the now recovering Daniel!

As I say, this is a nice little idea, but I just felt that it needed some work to make it come across better. Oh, and I would have put in a lot more local colour too - don't be afraid to use Geordie dialect and mention Newcastle FC by name!

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stebrown
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Thanks for the reads Alffy and Niles.

Alffy.

Yeah, I think this needs to be extended really. As I said earlier to Jeff, I was really wanting to have some more characters, pretty much so there can be a consequence every time Charlie wins. I think the only way to get that right is to extend this by at least 10 pages and if I then tightened it up a bit too I should have enough room to work around.

Niles

I'll just go through each point in turn.

Tanis is written by Bert, hence the american spelling of tire. Personally, I like the format of the introduction then summary.

I know what you mean about the scene in the car and I made several notes myself that I didn't get round to amending the script from. One of the notes was to sort out some of the dialogue between Charlie and Dan in the car.

I probably should have made this more local but I'm always a bit wary of using local slang and specific locations. 'Mam' stood out for me when listening to the IScript as sounding odd and out of place. The dialogue itself, with good actors, can be brought to life and would allow them to put in their accents etc.

I was intentionally going for a slowish start that would speed up once he gets the coin. I agree though that, unless I'm extending this, I need to get into the story a little earlier.

Cutting to the house was another of my notes. Originally I had it so I could go back later, after Charlie wins on the fruit machine, to show an accident that it caused. I couldn't think of an accident so I didn't use it in the end. I still kept it in just to show the inside of the house and to show time passing.

The drunk had a particular voice and way of speaking in my head. He is still smashed by the end, but the kind of smashed where you've drank yourself sober.

A few of my friends have worked in pubs and they work alone most weekdays, simply because it's quiet. Might be a location thing, but it's quite common to only have one member of staff in a bar.

Yeah, maybe there shouldn't have been a smile. Was just supposed to suggest that the policeman was a bit embarrased about giving Charlie the card.

Yeah, noted, the fruit machine scene is overwritten a bit. The fact that he finds the pound coin is the start of the luck, but yeah I can see how it could be confusing.

There are bookies in football stadiums. At St James Park, it is right in front of the turnstile that I go through. The INT/EXT thing was something I was wondering about too. Wonder if anyone has any examples of other scripts that take place in a football stadium to compare. I presumed EXT simply because it was outside.

The dealer smiles to himself because I imagine it is very rare for anyone to bet on zero, even rarer for that person to win. The lewd expression is because he's getting drunker and drunker and he's testing his 'luck', kind of like testing whatever it is that's controlling it. He wants to lose.

The scene with the nurse was to make Charlie drop the coin. I was pretty stuck with thinking of a reason for Charlie to simply take the coin out of his pocket and look at it. Being disturbed and getting his handkerchief was what I decided on.

This was a difficult script to write to be honest. Firstly, because I haven't really written anything for a while. Secondly, the premise was a little muddy. I think if I come back to this after these suggestions I should have a clearer idea of what works and what doesn't.

Thanks again.



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Niles_Crane
Posted: October 18th, 2009, 4:10am Report to Moderator
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bookies in football stadiums!

You learn something new every day!

In another SoulShadows I discovered that Americans apparently bury people minus their kecks!

You may possibly guess that I am not a footie fan - and I am also teetotal (and have been all my life), so my experience of pubs is limited too!

I would stand by my comments regarding the Tanis opening, but apologies as I didn't realise you didn't write this bit.
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alffy
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I was going to mention the INT/EXT stadium thing but I wasn't sure which was right?  As for writing in local accents, I think it's fine and would be beneficial as the story is set in Newcastle...isn't it?  It would make it more realistic.


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Niles_Crane
Posted: October 18th, 2009, 5:12am Report to Moderator
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Anyone know where we can pick up some sports scripts and see how they write stadium scenes!
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tonkatough
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Hmm. This one felt way to domestic for a Soulshadow entry.

Nicely written and like a lot of your works Stebrown it was played out low key with out any real dramatic flare, thrills and spills or intensity.

Even the supernatural ending was just a rehash of the Jesus/Saviour sacrafice element.

But as a drama about the perils of gambling and how it ruins marriages, I thought this was very well done and realistic.


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stebrown
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Quoted from tonkatough


Nicely written and like a lot of your works Stebrown it was played out low key with out any real dramatic flare, thrills and spills or intensity.



That doesn't sound very good...

I know it's a bit more domestic based than other episodes but it is still a supernatural premise.

Thanks for the read though matey.


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Niles_Crane
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I am pretty sure that this sentence contradicts itself!

If your scripts lacks dramatic flare, thrills, spills or intensity, then it can't also be nicely written!

I would say that I do not see why a script has to have "thrills and spills" anyway - it would be different if this were meant to be an action film, but it is perfectly acceptable for this genre to be low key.

Although, as I said, I felt the script needed work, I would also add that it makes a refreshing change to have a supernatural story set amongst the pubs and football grounds of a real place rather than gothic old houses! I would even encourage you to make it more grounded in reality by naming your locals and presenting real places.

(In this respect, I'd point to Rendezvous's scripts with their Manchester settings).
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Dreamscale
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Hey guys, if the scene is "inside" a stadium, whether or not that stadium is "open" or "closed", it's an "INT shot (as far as I'm concerned.  The camera and the action is inside the stadium.

Sorry I didn't catch that, Ste.
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bert
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Quoted from Niles_Crane
I know that the format demands an intro by Tanis, but it seems to take ages to get to the point! We have a page of her tossing a coin - so over a minute of screen time probably!


Hmm....I must disagree with you here, Niles.

The entire segment occurs over 1.5 pages, and I am very cognizant of screen time.

As for the coin flipping itself -- even with the most liberal of interpretations -- let's say 5 flips -- which is more than intended -- those actions would consume about 20 seconds of screen time, tops. (Try it.)

Not trying to be defensive, really -- and thank you for taking the time to comment on Tanis, Niles -- as she seldom receives comments -- but I do think it is important to correct (what I perceive as) misperceptions when they arise, lest others become confused.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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Niles_Crane
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Oh. hi Bert. No worries - as the writer, it is your God given right to defend and explain your work! And, indeed, to tell us to bugger off if you don't like what we say!

But...

I would still say that even 20 seconds watching someone flip a coin is likely to seem very long indeed! In any case, the dialogue would make the scene longer.

I much preferred the Tanis intro for Grave Messages - do you write them all?
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bert
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Quoted from Niles_Crane
- do you write them all?


Yes -- and truth be told -- her character has already gone far beyond her originally-intended lifespan haha.

I would have never confined her to a cave had I known we would be approaching 20 episodes, all-told.

But specific to this episode -- as she flips her coin -- 2-3 times, probably -- the camera is entering the alcove, looking about, and approaching Tanis.

The image is not static -- but also not spelled out explicitly, as much as it is implied by the previous segments.

Thanks for giving me an opportunity to discuss -- which happens quite seldom for this character, who is much harder to compose than she looks.

I am getting very eager to post her own episode, the season finale, which improves (to me) each time I open the file and tweak it.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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tonkatough
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No, no,  no, no Niles. I'm not contradicting myself. Don't be silly.

This isn't just any short, this is Soulshadows. Expectations have to be met.

Soulshadows is all about  people globe trotting around the world to find the ulitmate ferris wheel ride, and psycho cats who will scratch up a man's penis when they are pissed and other such bump in the night thrills and spills.

But as a suburban yarn about a families plight caused by gambling I would say- yes, this is well written.  



      


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stebrown...

Like all the others, I thought you did a good job here.  Your action lines were crisp and to the point. You didn't have any of the as I call it, "flower scented stuff.".

I thought the pacing was okay.  It was a very quick read for 26 pages as well.

As usually Bert Tanis was good.

Almost makes me want to write one for the series later down the road if it goes to a third part.

Good Job

Ghostwriter 22


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mcornetto
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Ste,

I thought you did a wonderful job with this. It was very much written "your" style and that is entirely what Soulshadows is about. It isn't about cookie-cutter molds that template the way your script has to be.  It's an anthology of writings by authors and even the most bizzarre would be welcome.  So don't be taken aback by the people that said it didn't fit.  There is no fit.

Well done, another excellent addition to the Soulshadows series.

Michael
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grademan
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Ste, I liked this. Good job. Only, one question: Why is the coin shown on the title page a Nazi coin? It wasn't referenced in the story.

Gary
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stebrown
Posted: October 26th, 2009, 10:41am Report to Moderator
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Thanks Michael and Gary for the reads. Pleased you enjoyed it.

Gary, the nazi coin had a bit of a back-story with who first had the coin. I decided to leave it out of the script because it didn't really do anything for this particular story and I was running out of room. For the purposes of this script, the image doesn't have a lot of relevance to be honest.


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jayrex
Posted: October 26th, 2009, 4:18pm Report to Moderator
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Hello Ste,

I thought you wrote a good quick and easy script to read, and for what it was it was good.  But feel that the supernatural stuff was a little thin.  I have to side with Dreamscale with the timing of the odd stuff that came from having the coin in Charlie's possession.

I think if you shortened the beginning and added more odd stuff for every win something bad happens then it would add to the supernatural atmosphere.

Tanis was as good as ever, which makes me want to read her story ever more.

Overall, a fairly good edition to the Soulshadow series.


Javier


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stebrown
Posted: October 29th, 2009, 12:12pm Report to Moderator
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Cheers Javier,

I think this script may need to be extended for it to work to full effect. Like I've said above, if more stuff was to happen to his loved ones then we would need more characters in the script. I couldn't really do that with the page length.

At the moment I'm working on extending an earlier short to send off to the BBC's writers room, but after that I may come back to this one.

Thanks for the read mate.

Ste


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Colkurtz8
Posted: November 4th, 2009, 4:00pm Report to Moderator
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Ste

Just listened to this in iscript format on the way home from work. I must say first and foremost, I really enjoyed the writing of this. I realise that a lot can get lost in the delivery via the iscript but the sharpness and clarity of your descriptive in particular transcended that potential problem. Plus I got a great kick out of the narrator pronouncing such british (or at least non-American) terms like "pint", "Mam", "bovril" and best off all "arse!" had me laughing in traffic to the queer look of other drivers

But as I said the writing was extremely crisp, concise "a cute, young
woman but good-looks hidden under years of hard graft" with the occasional dark witticism in places like comparing Charlie's average looks to the rhythm of his finger tapping. I dug the Shearer reference too, perhaps a bit obvious but what can I say, a true legend of the game.

For me, the story is what stops this from being great. The set up and idea was decent, even if it had a little I've-seen-it-all-before feel to it. I like how the story developed, the torn marriage, Charlie's gambling problem and the grizzly encounter with the drunk in the bar triggering the whole chain of events but in my opinion it never fully realised itself. In that, it all became formulaic once we were made aware of he powers possesed by the coin. With the risk of sounding like a know it all I could see the ending coming two thirds through and unfortunately things unfolded pretty much how I had forecasted. Nice twist ending all the same though with the son finding the coin in a cool closing shot.

What happened to Sam? The last we heard he was in a "not looking good" coma but we never got any closure. Is it because Charlie was so consumed with his habit that he merely forgot? Funny cos I just watched Rosemary's Baby last night and there is a similar sub-plot where Rosemary's former landlord falls ill and she never goes to see him until she is told he has passed away, presumably because she is embroiled in rather "distracting" troubles of her own by this time of the story. In fact this had some similar themes to that film in regards an unseen malevolent forces inflicting hardships in trade for glory and riches for those who want it bad enough.

Overall, as superbly written piece with a story I though felt flat and failed to really grab, engage or catch me by surprise. I dunno, maybe if you had stretched it out longer in order to accomodate for a greater arc, really delving into Charlie's growing dependancy on the coin till it completly takes over his life. I don't know if there is a page limit to the series, is there?

Col.


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Grandma Bear
Posted: November 6th, 2009, 6:19pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Stephen,

I read this one loooong time ago. I can tell you this version was much improved. You did a great job on it. Nice writing style, nice story, characters that I cared for. Very good.

I'm not a grammar expert so I'm only asking out of curiosity, "as if the table were infinite", shouldn't that be was? If I'm wrong, please tell me the rule here so I might learn something.

Great description of Charlie. His rhythm is just like his appearance, below average. I felt sorry for him immediately!

On page 20 you have a montage. I could be wrong, but I think that's  a SERIES OF SHOTS:      A montage is more like a series of scenes. Longer and usually with some dialogue and stuff.

Great choice making the "evil" continue with Daniel having the coin.

Not much of a review perhaps, but I thought you did really well and I don't really have much to complain about.

Pia


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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: November 7th, 2009, 12:07am Report to Moderator
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As usual, I enjoyed Tanis' character. The premise is good and whenever I think of coins I think of superposition. I also think that if we had sheer luck, life would be very boring.

I feel that Emily comes off as a bit harsh, with her cigarette stomping etc. It just seems to me like she has no sympathy for Charlie at all. I'm just kind of wondering why. What was their relationship like before?

What I think that I'm getting is undeveloped and kind of stereotypical characters here, but I guess that's OK though because this series isn't so much about character development as it is the stereotypical character types that all have some kind of vice or other. Kind of like the vice becomes the character. Charlie's the gambler, but Emily is the poor victim wife.

***Note correction: I've been informed Soul Shadows is meant to be an anthology and thus, the individual works may necessarily vary.

For some reason, I feel like this particular script kind of loses itself.

To me, right around the time Charlie winds up going to the game with Daniel, that's the time I felt we're kind of in a bit of a nowhere land. It felt like the script was already over. I think it needs something to pzazz it up. Charlie's a gambler. We get it. But what's keeping us reading?

Why'd he buy something (that pie) that he thought his son wouldn't like?

Here:

>He climbs onto the wall of the bridge. Jumps.

This was supposed to be an IMPORTANT SCENE. Then why? Did you just write: Jumps.

I felt that this scene should have lingered. We should have been inside the mind of Charlie as he felt. Or something else. This was a sign to me that there's a bit missing. That sounds weird for me to say that because I feel like this script was too long for itself.

Well written, but for some reason you leave me wanting,

Sandra





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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: November 7th, 2009, 1:30am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Hey Ste, for some reason, I'm unable to open your script up now, so I can't verify anything, but I wanted to try and explain what I meant about there not being much text...

I was referring to why I felt that the characters and story were undeveloped.  You've got roughly 25 pages here I think, and only 5 real characters, meaning that one would think you've got more than enough room to fully develop the characters and story.

I'm not saying in any way that what you've done is incorrect or wrong, but I bet if you do a word count, you'll find that you're average is quite low, on a page by page basis, meaning that although it's 25 pages, it reads and plays out more like it's 20 or so. And with the Tanis parts, it's probably closer to 15 or so.

I agree 100% that scripts should be bare bones, etc., but in a short, you've got to utilize your pages as efficiently as possible, because you only have so many to work with.

Obviously, word count varies greatly, based on writing style, amount of action/description lines, dialogue (especially how long the dialogue lines are), and many other things.  I doubt there’s a “norm” out there, but I think you should probably average around 200 words per page, when you look at the entire script.  I did a quick check and looked at a few scripts, and found word counts per page from a low of 165 to a high of 320, but the majority fell into the 175-225 range.

Check yours out and see if I’m right.  Maybe I’m way off base here.  Should be interesting at least.

See ya.


Is there a formula here that we can employ? There is for novels. There must be one that you are using and I'm excited to learn it.

I'd appreciate it if you or someone else can work out what the count is in "Thief" right now.

I know that if I worked it, I could really trim, but add a lot of substance to it. The trouble with thief is that we're dealing with 8 characters. And I, by my green-nish developed too full of a character in all my mind towards all of them. ... Resulting in:

A complex problem: Where do we settle? We settle within the story itself. Gawdamn! The ring. Right? ...

Trouble is, that for me, it's not just the ring, but all of what the ring denotes. And that leads me into a heap of trouble because I can't think on a standard level.

What's the standard level? I can't tell you. That's why I can't write on the standard level.

It's very interesting for me to work from a perspective where I try and fill in every conceivable response both internally and externally that a character might elicit ... AND at the same time, work on narrowing it down to its BARE BONES.

THAT, is reductionism at its finest. It's beauty at its height. It's pure and simple and good.

It's apparent to me that some of the best works have conjoined the simplicity with the complexity.  It's not easy to do although it sounds like it might be a breeze.

Anyways, back to the word counts:

Go for it and deduce this one further. I'd love to hear more!

Sandra



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Orange
Posted: November 8th, 2009, 2:55am Report to Moderator
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Ste,

Good Job on this one. I liked it and agreed that it felt realistic in terms of the relationship of the characters and how gambling has made it difficult for them to relate on the same level as they used to.

I do agree with a point mentioned earlier that the script feels like it starts a bit too late for such a short story, but I did like that you took the time to develop the relationships of the characters for the pay off in the end.

I wasn't too fond of the burn woulds healing up like that so fast at the end, I feel like it would have been a more powerful ending if they did have the wounds to show that this did happen. I also would have liked to have seen how Charlie died. Idk, that's just my preference. Even if it is just a quick scene where we are left to ASSUME that he had died until it was mentioned a page later.

I agree with Pia's statement about continuing the evil of the coin. A good choice indeed.

All in all though I think you did a good job with keeping with the idea of the problems the coin can cause, but also taking this character who used to think that gambling was bad and caused all his problems, to gambling being the answer to all his problems. I just wished there was more closure to Charlie's character, that's my only real criticism.
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Shelton
Posted: November 12th, 2009, 11:21am Report to Moderator
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I liked the story here, and agree with Tonka's post (which I just caught a glimpse of) that it's not as supernatural as some of the other entries.

For what it is though, I think it works.  Having read some of your other dramas, I can see that style here, and it helped to make for a good entry while straying a little bit from the path.

My one beef is that Daniel ended up with the coin.  I prefer to see things left in some random spot where it seems inevitable for Tanis to find it.  That's just a personal thing though.

Anyway, nice work.


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stebrown
Posted: November 16th, 2009, 4:24pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks everyone for reading or listening to this.

Over the past few months I've been struggling with my writing a little. Ideas aren't really coming naturally and everything's just a bit forced. If it wasn't for this series I probably wouldn't have written anything during that time, so for that at least I'm happy.

There's areas I'm happy with in this script but I just feel I had the premise right in my head but couldn't quite develop the story to make it work quite right.

Anyway, I appreciate the comments and agree with the critiques. I'm going to develop my other idea that I didn't feel fitted the series too much. Hopefully, without the constraints of Soulshadows I can get it sorted.

Ste


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James McClung
Posted: November 17th, 2009, 9:23pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Stephen. I'll keep this review brief as I'm sure you don't want to hear the whole same-old same-old. I enjoyed the general premise. Very classic. You did try to put your own spin on it with the gambling although that could easily have been done before. In fact, it probably was but I've never seen it and in any case, it's a good, natural theme for a story like this. I do think you could've gone further though. You don't necessarily have to get to the story sooner. I didn't mind the slow burn too much. Although the whole situation could've been more out there, more bizarre. It's a little too cut and dry at this point although highly realistic and pretty well developed. As for the end, I liked that Daniel got the coin. I would like to have seen him use it though just so you know he's got something coming to him. The way it ends now, he could easily have tossed it in a drawer and left it to collect dust.

Overall, a decent entry.


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The boy who could fly
Posted: November 21st, 2009, 2:32pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Stephen, I think you did a pretty good job with this entry, I think most of my thoughts have already been said other than I wish it were a few pages longer.  I would have liked to have seen a bit more of Charlie and his struggle with gambling before he gets ahold of the coin, even if it was little things like at the beginning with Daniel in the car listening to music, maybe if it were a sporting event of some sort that he wish he put money down on or something, just a thought.  I did think you did a good job with the story and like the others has a different tone and feel to it.  Good work.


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stebrown
Posted: November 22nd, 2009, 4:11pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the read folks.

Pleased you both enjoyed it.


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