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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Scripts  ›  Soulshadows II: Key To My Heart Moderators: bert
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  Author    Soulshadows II: Key To My Heart  (currently 15212 views)
Zack
Posted: January 18th, 2010, 11:37pm Report to Moderator
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I meant no offense, Cornetto. I just don't think it is necessary is all. The title page should simply state...

                          SOUL SHADOWS II
                                Presents
                           Key To My Heart

What if someone new to screenwriting comes across this script, or any of the others, and assumes that a title page must also act as a Cover Art for the script? That could start a bad and annoying trend. But hey, if it hasn't been a problem so far then I guess you guys are fine. It just bothered me.

~Zack~
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mcornetto
Posted: January 18th, 2010, 11:38pm Report to Moderator
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I understood what you meant and I didn't take any offence - I just explained to you why it is there.
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Trojan
Posted: January 20th, 2010, 11:37am Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff, this is the first of the Soulshadows scripts I have read and horror is not really my genre so not sure how useful my review will be. I have browsed through a few of the other comments but not read them all so I hope I'm not repeating anything that's already been covered.

Style wise the formatting and everything was fine, very easy to read.

I don't know a great deal about the NFL but I've always assumed Packers fans to be probably the most diehard supporters in the league. But I was wondering what they were doing in the parking lot of a K-Mart...is this a ritual that happens before every home game or something?

I didn't have an issue with Logan calling himself Tyler, I figured he is just giving the girls a fake name. If anything though it gives away the fact that he is planning to harm them, but due to the genre and nature of the story I would have assumed that anyway. So I think it's fine the way it is.

Yeah the dialogue was cheesy in places but it fit in with the cheesehead theme and you mentioned it so it worked in that sense.

I also thought it was unlikely that Emma would head off with this guy that she just met, or more specifically, that her friends would let her go off with him. Girls always seem to be concerned about their friends' safety so it's not something that would likely happen. But horror films seem to be filled with people making dumb choices and putting themselves in dangerous situations, it is a staple of the genre. So I bought it simply because I expect characters to make bad decisions in these sort of stories.

On page 16, you have 'Let's let them puppies out...what'd ya say?' To me this reads as 'what did you say' and I think it should be 'what d'ya say'. And another instance of this again on page 24.

On page 17 Logan says 'you weren't kidding when you said we had alot in common...'. It should be 'a lot'.

I didn't have a problem with the graphic descriptions, if I was actually seeing it on screen though then it might be another matter.

Overall I thought the story was good and it was well written, and was a quick read. I would have liked to have some clue as to why Logan was the psychotic killer that he was and what his motivation was. Otherwise I think it all worked pretty well and I liked the way you used the key and the heart visually to tie everything together. Good job.

Cheers,
Tim.
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Andrew
Posted: January 22nd, 2010, 7:18pm Report to Moderator
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Mr. Bush, hope you are well.

This is the first SS script I have read, and it was down to the fact you are very active in supporting others, and it deserves quid pro quo.

The horror/college kid/beer drinking thing is all I've read from you, and it really seems to nip your writing growth in the bud. This script is fine per se, but it felt like I could see the equations as it developed (that is to say, hit certain checkpoints); for example, we have two girls talking beer (really? it's akin to two straight guys talking flower arrangement at the start of a script - and no, I'm not being provocative on gender roles here) and it just feels so 'frat'. As a reader, it's kinda obvious it's mindless chit-chat to segue us into something else, which is, of course, Logan's entry.

The girls being so on the nose with appreciation of Logan felt unnatural - flirting is more powerful in what's not being said, and what we have here comes across as desperation, but also a quick way to move along the story - the point, it's simply not organic. The belch felt like 'Wolf Creek' (I know a small gripe) inc. the chatty-chatty stuff and is what the real problem with the script is - a lack of originality. We also have the Billy from 'Scream' hair-brushing-back-thing/chat. Jeffrey, come on! Emma's attack was a carbon copy of one in 'Fade'! Now, that's all well and good if it's a light-hearted parody, but this is serious material and instead frames you as unimaginative, which I don't believe to be the case.

Emma and Logan on page 7 is too twee, and took me back to the same problem I had with your 'Fade' script. I wouldn't have such a problem with it if we had more foreshadowing of Emma being vulnerable and liable to such absurd 14-year-old dreams of romance. I'm not advocating paperthin characters in lieu of extra pages, but rather more focused writing. I know you're a huge fan of 'Hostel' and it comes across in your own writing, but the reason it soared is 'cos it was fresh, the violence was justifiable 'cos it tapped into the deeper psychology with the pay-to-kill vibe - it didn't feel reactive, which is why I believe the second one killed off the series. It's a bit like 'Captivity' where the 'torture' category now just feels crusty and stale.

The reaction to the gore I think was more down to the fact it's gratititous, and less the severity of it. There's no discernible reason for it. Logan kills, he has a split personality and the girls are merely vessels to this. Again, the scene with the decomposing bodies felt lifted from 'Wolf Creek', yet there, there was biting realism in the dialouge and a simply perfect portrayal of a psychotic 'outbacker' - it tapped into the backpacker murder thing, and all of those things gave the scene extra gravity; however, your version felt limp, IMHO.

The writing here is decent enough, but the story is the real weakness. Apologies for such a negative set of comments, Jeff, but this this felt like something off 'Tales from the Crypt' and it really sunk for me. Judging from your own reviews, I know you will take this in the spirit it's intended, and yet, it is those reviews which give me higher expectations of your work!

My number one recommendation is to get off this torture vibe and apply your own paint onto the canvas.

Andrew


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Dreamscale
Posted: January 22nd, 2010, 11:43pm Report to Moderator
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Sorry everyone...I've been out...no internet...no anything.  Hard times.  I'll get back to each and everyone, starting with Mr. Dec.  I'm back online, and I'm on it.

Thanks to everyone for their reads AND FEEDBACK!
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stebrown
Posted: January 24th, 2010, 10:30am Report to Moderator
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Hi Jeff, I've just finished your episode and overall, I thought you did a really good job with it. Writing, formatting etc were all spot on. A very quick, easy read.

****SPOILERS BELOW*********



The story itself was pretty predictable, in that Logan/Tyler was going to be the killer. The whole too good to be true angle and even making him a horror writer, y'know? I was even thinking that you were deliberately making it obvious so that you could have a twist and make it so someone else was the killer... maybe even Emma?

The fake name part confused me a little. I didn't actually notice as I read through that he said his name was Tyler under the character title of Logan. That would be cleared up if this was on screen though, so I don't have a big problem with it. It did harm the read for me though for two reasons. One, it kind of gives the game away even more than my above reasons. Two, it's a bit confusing for the reader. I don't see any problem with having Tyler as his character title until the reveal and then simply putting Tyler/Logan, or something like that. I'm sure there are plenty of scripts knocking about that have a similar shift.

The re-start reminded me of Death Proof. The structure of the whole script is quite similar to that film actually - which, for me, isn't a bad thing as I quite liked it. I liked the almost mocking nature of Maia that sort of foreshadowed the eventual turn the script took.

The end itself was a bit of a dissapointment for me. Can't say exactly why but I was just expecting something a bit more shocking or more of a twist.

All in all though, a fun, enjoyable script with loads of blood and stuff. Good stuff mate!

Ste


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Dreamscale
Posted: January 25th, 2010, 1:11pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Dec, thanks for the read and comments.  Sorry it took me so long to reply.

Thanks for the compliments.  Glad there were some things that worked for you.

Still very surprised about all the comments about people not believing Emma would go with Logan, etc.  Dec, I’m confused with you saying that it doesn’t make sense to “argue” the believability or reality of a script situation by pointing to real life examples.  I just don’t get this at all.  First of all, stuff happens in movies all the time that doesn’t, couldn’t, and wouldn’t happen in real life.  It’s a movie…we have to suspend our disbelief at the door and go with what we’re given.  Here, however, we’re dealing with stuff that does happen in real life…happens all the time, actually.  If that’s indeed the case, which it is, how can you say that’s a poor “excuse”?  What am I missing here?

Why is it difficult to believe that someone would be smitten by someone else very quickly and make a poor decision, based on alcohol and sex appeal?  Logan is very attractive, very smart, very manipulative, well spoken, well educated, and most importantly, knows how to play the game.  Emma is new to Wisconsin.  She wants to meet new people, make new friends.  Wisconsin is known for its friendly, laid back people.  Skonsinites are trustworthy folks for the most part.  They’re also a bit too trustworthy and naive.

I think my style involves a heavy dose of dialogue.  Guess it’s just how I am and how I like my movies.  I tend to like to write at least 2 different movies in each script.  When Emma is chained up, I wanted the dialogue to be the disturbing part.  I wanted to invoke some scares through what’s being said and how it’s being said.  I don’t know, maybe I’m just weird.

If you’re referring to standard plotlines and “crisis being King”, when you say don’t fix what ain’t broken, I guess it comes down to personal choice as to whether it needs fixing or not.  I don’t like standard, normal things. They’re too predictable, too cookie cutter.  I want to be different and I want what I write to be different.  IMO, it’s not that different, it’s just a different philosophy or mindset.  I didn’t try and just omit these tension builders, etc.  I just tried to do it a different way.  If it doesn’t work for you, based on that, then I understand.  I think it does work the way it is, and I don’t think it’s at all more predictable because of it.

Yes, you are correct…I love a slow build.  Not sure why you’re saying it’s so obvious that Emma is going to be killed.  In my original draft, she actually remains alive and is saved by Maia.  Original readers were happy she survived.  I didn’t like that.  I wanted this to be grim, dark, and mean spirited, thus, I killed Em off, but I did it O.S., meaning that you don’t know whether or not she made it until we get back to Logan’s basement.

Sorry Maia didn’t work for you.  I do not agree with having to foreshadow everything.  Maia could have just been another potential victim.  I wanted some revenge for what Logan has been doing, and I also wanted a supernatural element.  The original plot concept followed along exactly, except I wasn’t sure about how and why the final protag would survive and flip things.  I obviously wasn’t going for laughs here, Dec, so I guess it’s obvious this didn’t work for you at all.  Why do you have problems with the logic here?  Maia says to Logan that she doesn’t always make it on time, but God knows she sure tries.  Again, in an earlier draft, Maia did make it on time to save Emma.  In this final version, she didn’t.  Maia can’t save everyone, all the time.  She does what she can, when she can.  I really didn’t want to develop her anymore than I did.

I get that damn Deus Ex Machina thing thrown at me a lot.  I don’t agree with it, but maybe that’s just me.  It’s supposed to be dark, dirty, and cold.  That’s exactly what I was after.  I don’t think it goes so far as to not having any humanity.   There’s always more story everywhere, but this is the story I wanted to tell.  These are the scenes I wanted to show.

I wasn’t looking to be mysterious here.  I wasn’t implying that “key to my heart” had anything to do with opening his heart, or releasing him.  No angels in this tale and no beauty in death.  Death is ugly and I wanted to make it as ugly and disturbing as possible.  Obviously, this will not appeal to everyone (actually, it seems it’s not appealing to much of anyone!).

I can’t say I agree with opening this on page 12.  I really like the first 11 pages.  Again, it’s the story I was after here and my take on this genre.  

OK Dec, that about does it.  I appreciate your feedback very much.  I don’t mean to argue with you over any of this, as IMO, it’s all a matter of personal choice.  Some people love Hostel and think it’s ground breaking, while others literally hate it and think it’s a pile of shit.  To each is own when it all comes down.

Thanks again!!!
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Dreamscale
Posted: January 25th, 2010, 1:27pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Shelton!  Thanks for the read and feedback.

I’m surprised you say this doesn’t seem like a Soul Shadows script.  You’re not the first to say this.  I wanted to make it unique and definitely different than the other SS scripts.  AS far as I could tell, SS scripts really needed only 2 things…an object in Tannis’ possession that plays into the story, and a supernatural element.  I do see the Masters of Horror similarities for sure.

I definitely went for disturbing, graphic violence, and I wanted it to come across as different.  I realize the key didn’t come into play too much, but it was what Logan used to reel his victims in.  In earlier drafts, it played a bigger part, but I decided to cut those scenes out.

Glad you seemed to like it, and thanks for the time!


Hey Gary, thanks for your feedback.

Cool, glad you picked up on the accuracy of things.  I did a fair amount of research and my parents do live in Door County, also.

As is usually the case with my scripts, there is definitely at least 2 different stories going on.  Do they fit together?  IMO they do, but I can easily see where some may not agree.  Glad you didn’t predict the last half, as I wanted it to come as a shock or surprise when Maia reveals her true self.

I have a habit of introing characters in the latter stages of the script.  I’ve touched on the Deux Ex Machina thing already.

Thanks Gary!
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: January 25th, 2010, 3:18pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Hey Dec, thanks for the read and comments.  Sorry it took me so long to reply.

Thanks for the compliments.  Glad there were some things that worked for you.

Still very surprised about all the comments about people not believing Emma would go with Logan, etc.  Dec, I�m confused with you saying that it doesn�t make sense to �argue� the believability or reality of a script situation by pointing to real life examples.  I just don�t get this at all.  First of all, stuff happens in movies all the time that doesn�t, couldn�t, and wouldn�t happen in real life.  It�s a movie�we have to suspend our disbelief at the door and go with what we�re given.  Here, however, we�re dealing with stuff that does happen in real life�happens all the time, actually.  If that�s indeed the case, which it is, how can you say that�s a poor �excuse�?  What am I missing here?

Why is it difficult to believe that someone would be smitten by someone else very quickly and make a poor decision, based on alcohol and sex appeal?  Logan is very attractive, very smart, very manipulative, well spoken, well educated, and most importantly, knows how to play the game.  Emma is new to Wisconsin.  She wants to meet new people, make new friends.  Wisconsin is known for its friendly, laid back people.  Skonsinites are trustworthy folks for the most part.  They�re also a bit too trustworthy and naive.


I think my style involves a heavy dose of dialogue.  Guess it�s just how I am and how I like my movies.  I tend to like to write at least 2 different movies in each script.  When Emma is chained up, I wanted the dialogue to be the disturbing part.  I wanted to invoke some scares through what�s being said and how it�s being said.  I don�t know, maybe I�m just weird.

If you�re referring to standard plotlines and �crisis being King�, when you say don�t fix what ain�t broken, I guess it comes down to personal choice as to whether it needs fixing or not.  I don�t like standard, normal things. They�re too predictable, too cookie cutter.  I want to be different and I want what I write to be different.  IMO, it�s not that different, it�s just a different philosophy or mindset.  I didn�t try and just omit these tension builders, etc.  I just tried to do it a different way.  If it doesn�t work for you, based on that, then I understand.  I think it does work the way it is, and I don�t think it�s at all more predictable because of it.

Yes, you are correct�I love a slow build.  Not sure why you�re saying it�s so obvious that Emma is going to be killed.  In my original draft, she actually remains alive and is saved by Maia.  Original readers were happy she survived.  I didn�t like that.  I wanted this to be grim, dark, and mean spirited, thus, I killed Em off, but I did it O.S., meaning that you don�t know whether or not she made it until we get back to Logan�s basement.

Sorry Maia didn�t work for you.  I do not agree with having to foreshadow everything.  Maia could have just been another potential victim.  I wanted some revenge for what Logan has been doing, and I also wanted a supernatural element.  The original plot concept followed along exactly, except I wasn�t sure about how and why the final protag would survive and flip things.  I obviously wasn�t going for laughs here, Dec, so I guess it�s obvious this didn�t work for you at all.  Why do you have problems with the logic here?  Maia says to Logan that she doesn�t always make it on time, but God knows she sure tries.  Again, in an earlier draft, Maia did make it on time to save Emma.  In this final version, she didn�t.  Maia can�t save everyone, all the time.  She does what she can, when she can.  I really didn�t want to develop her anymore than I did.

I get that damn Deus Ex Machina thing thrown at me a lot.  I don�t agree with it, but maybe that�s just me.  It�s supposed to be dark, dirty, and cold.  That�s exactly what I was after.  I don�t think it goes so far as to not having any humanity.   There�s always more story everywhere, but this is the story I wanted to tell.  These are the scenes I wanted to show.

I wasn�t looking to be mysterious here.  I wasn�t implying that �key to my heart� had anything to do with opening his heart, or releasing him.  No angels in this tale and no beauty in death.  Death is ugly and I wanted to make it as ugly and disturbing as possible.  Obviously, this will not appeal to everyone (actually, it seems it�s not appealing to much of anyone!).

I can�t say I agree with opening this on page 12.  I really like the first 11 pages.  Again, it�s the story I was after here and my take on this genre.  

OK Dec, that about does it.  I appreciate your feedback very much.  I don�t mean to argue with you over any of this, as IMO, it�s all a matter of personal choice.  Some people love Hostel and think it�s ground breaking, while others literally hate it and think it�s a pile of shit.  To each is own when it all comes down.

Thanks again!!!


It's simple. You make the rules in your script. The audience suspends disbelief to a certain extent, but they BELIEVE what the writer tells them.

You tell us up front that there is a serial killer on the loose. 1 major, logical,  reason why a girl wouldn't go off on her own.

You introduce her to us as a girl new to the area who needs protection.

So you introduce two very compelling reasons why she wouldn't go off on her own.

You basically write yourself into a corner and the only way out of it is to make Logan so attractive that he makes her fall in love with him straight away.

The problem is, what you wrote just doesn't make it believable. You have the cheesy line about the key and then you skip to where they are basically in love.

The way you described Logan in your post does not come across in the script. Nothing suggests he's that likeable, except for her reaction, but it's not enough.

It's not WHAT is happening that's the problem, it's the fact that it is not believable that this particular character Emma, is so in love with this particular character Logan. The evidence you present is not compelling enough.

Suspension of disbelief only goes so far. Coleridge (who coined the phrase) suggested that if a writer could infuse a "human interest and a semblance of truth" into a fantastic tale, the reader would suspend judgment concerning the implausibility of the narrative. He was specifically talking about stories about clearly unrealistic premises eg for the sake of argument, Alice in Wonderland.

It does not extend to suspending disbelief over human interaction in a seeming realistic portrayal of real life.

As for the predictability. I'll explain why it is predictable:

1. We know before the story starts it's about murder. Tanis told us.
2. We meet the girls, but automatically assume they are the victims, not the killer (it's the norm)
3. You tell us there is a serial killer who is killing women, so the assumption is it's a man.
4. You only introduce one guy to the story. There are no red herrings. It plays exactly as you would expect.

We expect that he's going to kill her because that's the way the story is structured.

It's unpredictable at the end, of course, because you just throw in a new character out of nowhere. It could just as easily have been an alien or a werewolf, a giant spider because it wasn't foreshadowed

As for the rest of the post, there's not much point discussing it further. You very strong opinions on how you want your work to be, and I can respect that. It basically means that there is no point in giving you feedback, because it's essentially redundant. I don't mean that in any way nastily.

As Mark Twain said, man knows no greater compunction than to edit other people's work.

The only thing I will say is that I believe that Hostel has a far too strong hold over you as a writer. I believe that your appreciation of that film is weakening your ability to construct scripts. I agree fully with what Andrew said above.

IMHO you have taken the wrong lesson from the success of Hostel and you are basing too much of your own scripts on what the majority found badly done about that film.

I have also seen you say that the "boring" part of Wolf Creek made you appreciate the second half more and so you try to emulate it. I have to admit to finding it highly ironic that you would try to emulate something you didn't really like. It's also highly ironic that you seem to have somewhat missed the point about why that part of the film worked so well for so many people. It was a brilliantly tense opening that subverted lots of horror cliches whilst using the geography and a series of events to inform the audience that something terrible was going to happen, whilst keeping us guessing as to what it was.

You say you don't like cookie cutter scripts, but you seem to have settled on your own structure that you adhere to rigidly. A slow build that is separated from the core of the story, followed by a sudden reveal that has not been foreshadowed in any way earlier in the script.

I also think it's funny that you changed the script to make it LESS likeable for the audience. That's a new one.... .

I'm sure this post seems quite nasty and it's not meant to. I am just concerned that in your attempt to break new ground, you're actually re-treading some very old ground indeed. You are deliberately introducing what I can only call school boy errors into your work.

Deus ex machina endings were ridiculed over two thousand years ago.


Quoted Text
A deus ex machina  literally, in Latin, "god from the machine") is a plot device where a previously intractable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved, usually with the contrived introduction of either characters, abilities, or objects not mentioned before within the storyline. It is generally considered to be a poor storytelling technique because it undermines the story's internal logic.


Doesn't the above exactly describe Maia?

Aristotle was taking the piss out of them before Jesus was born.


Quoted Text
In the characters too, exactly as in the structure of the incidents, [the poet] ought always to seek what is either necessary or probable, so that it is either necessary or probable that a person of such-and-such a sort say or do things of the same sort, and it is either necessary or probable that this [incident] happen after that one.

It is obvious that the solutions of plots too should come about as a result of the plot itself, and not from a contrivance, as in the Medea and in the passage about sailing home in the Iliad. A contrivance must be used for matters outside the drama�either previous events which are beyond human knowledge, or later ones that need to be foretold or announced. For we grant that the gods can see everything. There should be nothing improbable in the incidents; otherwise, it should be outside the tragedy, e.g. that in Sophocles� Oedipus.


I repeat, I'm not having a go at you here. It's all intended in the best of spirits. I've read two scripts from you now (Fade and this one), both have excellent premises with real potential. Killers working for the Devil and a vicious supernatural killer that protects women from predators.

In your desperation to subvert the rules, you've hidden both stories until the very end of the scripts and then rushed through them in a matter of seconds. What should be the key cornerstones of your work are being made into an afterthought.

It's a real shame IMO. It really is.

Eli Roth has a lot to answer for.

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Scar Tissue Films  -  January 25th, 2010, 3:54pm
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Dreamscale
Posted: January 25th, 2010, 4:11pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Dec, don't worry, I honestly do appreciate all feedback...even if it sounds like I'm trying to argue my point.  I'm not, I'm just trying to explain where I'm coming from and why.

Your posts do not come across as nasty or that you're having a go at me.  I really like these sorts of back and forths.  It gives me great insight into how others think and feel...and why.

I do have very strong beliefs about how scripts/movies should be, and how they shouldn't be.  I'm a huge movie buff as well as a critic at heart.  IMO, the best of these bring about strong reactions, both negative and positive.  This is what I'm always after.  I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel, just trying to alter it a bit.

Did you read my Fade?  Did you give feedback?  I don't think you did, but I could be wrong (yes, even I am wrong quite frequently LOL!).  I'll have to check and see...if not, I would love to get some feedback from you on it.

I don't agree that Maia is Deus ex machina.  Since my script does not follow standard structure, I don’t feel Maia is even intro’d late.  Her intro follows the first half of the script very closely, but then things change.  They change because that’s why she’s here.  She’s different.  She could have been a regular old chick and somehow outwitted Logan and killed him in the process.  The fact that’s she’s not, doesn’t come across as Deus ex machina to me, but then again, I don’t really agree with the entire concept for the most part.  Sure, there are thousands of great examples of this throughout history, but I just don’t see it here.

As for Logan and Emma’s “relationship”, keep in mind that the vast majority of it takes place O.S. (a personal choice I made to skip what I found to be dull and not necessary to the script).  You know, if you really analyze things like this, you have to understand that you only get so much screen time to show what you want to show.  Other things take place O.S., and based on how characters act, or what happens, (I think) you have to read between the lines, so to speak, and read in what must have taken place O.S.  It’s a personal choice that most here don’t seem to agree with.

What I’m saying is this…the story that I wanted to tell (and show) was how Logan picked up his victims, what he did with them, and then how his latest potential victim turns the tables on him, and what she does to him.  Very simple, actually.  It is what it is.  The violence and language is what I wanted to use to get my points across.  I wasn’t looking to write a mystery here.  I wasn’t trying to write a character study.  I am not concerned with following a standard 3 act structure, nor am I concerned with following typical plotting and the like.  I do completely understand how you and many others can see that as a big problem.  I don’t though.  If you follow screen writing books and the like, you’re going to tend to stay within the lines, and that’s fine.  If you don’t however, you’re going to tend to not worry about these things.  I like to buck the system, but I try to do it in a way that makes sense, is easy to follow, and delivers on what it sets out to do.

I probably use the examples of Hostel and Wolf Creek too frequently.  They just come to mind often when I’m trying to make a point.  The thing about WC, about the first half being so dull that it made the 2nd half so powerful, probably doesn’t come out exactly as I intend it to.  What works best about it is how hard things hit, when they finally do.  It’s literally shocking and jarring right after the main protag wakes up, tied up.  Same can be said for Hostel.  The first half is so completely different than the 2nd half, that it’s even more shocking and powerful when we finally discover exactly what’s going on.  Both films have balls, are brutal, and pull no punches.  They aim to be different, they are different, and they both succeed with what they set out to accomplish.

OK, you know I could go on, but hopefully you understand what I’m saying and where I’m coming from.  This is not a feel good script, and it’s not supposed to be.  It’s supposed to be shocking.  It’s supposed to be ugly.  It’s supposed to be controversial.  It’s supposed to be brutal.  And most importantly, it’s supposed to be different…even though it’s a very simple premise that is well travelled, the end effect hopefully leaves you feeling like, whether you liked it or not, you’ll remember it, you’ll remember some images, maybe even some dialogue.

Again, Dec, I totally appreciate your feedback, advice, and thoughts in general.  I know that you know your shit, and it shows in what you say and how you say it.  Just because I don’t tend to agree with it all, does not make it come across as nasty in any way, or that I have a problem with it.

Thanks again for your time here.  It does help and I honestly mean that.  Take care!
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Dreamscale
Posted: January 25th, 2010, 4:52pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Zack, thanks for reading and your feedback.  I know you’re not a big reviewer type of guy, so your insight here is very much appreciated.

I think you are missing quite a lot in regards to what Soul Shadows is all about.   It’s a series, much like Tales from the Crypt, and others like it.  Tannis is our crypt keeper, so to speak.  Tannis is written by Bert, and each episode has an intro and xtro with Tannis.  Each also has a title page showing the item in the story.  BTW, just about every single Tannis piece has words and phrases like “we…” and camera directions.  That’s just the way Bert decided to write her parts.  It may be distracting at first, but after awhile, it seems to work quite well, IMO.

I’m surprised you didn’t like the dialogue, but understand it’s a personal issue.  I tried to make it as “real” as possible.  If you listen to the iscript, I think you’ll find it works better than you may have initially thought.  I don’t think the reader hit all the marks with the dialogue, but he did a pretty good job for the most part.

There’re only 3 girls, so you shouldn’t really have that big of a problem keeping track of them.  Two of them are born and raised “Skonsinites”, so IMO, they should be pretty easy to tell apart.

You know, if you really think about it, there’s going to be some kind of nutcase on the loose just about everywhere, at any given time. People tend to “joke around” about things like this to make themselves feel more secure.  I think it’s just human nature, actually.

Logan’s dialogue is purposely written the way it is, as I’ve said numerous times before.  It’s his shtick.  It’s cheesy, it’s goofy even.  Would it work on anyone and everyone?  No, but it would work on some for sure.  He comes across as a good guy.  He’s nice, he’s polite, he’s helpful.  He seems like someone you can trust.  I guess the bottom line is that dialogue works in weird ways for people.  Some will get it and like it, others will find it odd and not like it.  Sorry it didn’t work for you.

Many others don’t see Em falling for a guy so fast.  But is it really “falling” for him?  It’s an attraction.  It’s chemistry.  It’s also alcohol and raw sexuality at play here in a setting that totally condones this stuff.  IMO, it doesn’t come off as unrealistic at all, but I guess I’m in the minority here.

HaHa!  You liked the first cheesy pun but not the 2nd or 3rd?  I can see what you’re saying.  I just tried to be consistent and make it obvious that this was a running gag.

Logan has a split personality, so to speak.  He uses “Tyler” as his name when he’s out and about, and “Logan” (his real name) when he’s getting down to his business.

You are correct about using “Tyler” incorrectly on page 12.  I’ll fix it.

Glad you like Logan’s unique way of binding his victims, as well as the self scalping.  I thought that was pretty cool, myself. It took awhile to conceive these ideas.  I wanted it to be unique and brutal.  Yeah, the nipple biting is quite brutal again.  Just wanted to include a little onscreen violence, cause up to here, most is O.S.

Yeah, I guess Death Proof is a good example here.  I like that movie very much and it kind of falls in line with how I like to structure my scripts.

I really didn’t want to turn this into a heavily character based story.  Just wanted to paint who and what everyone is and go from there.  I don’t think the power of this script lies in its characterization.

Yeah, the abduction scenes are basically word for word, other than a few subtle changes, but that was intentional.  I can see where some won’t appreciate it.

Others are in agreement that the last act plays too fast, and probably the first, plays too long.  I decided to set the stage with the long section and run through the violent end much quicker.  Personal choice here.  Sorry it came off as unsatisfying.

Zack, I’m very bummed that you are pretty disappointed with this.  I thought you’d dig it…I really did.  I won’t be doing a heavy rewrite.  I will make a few corrections and changes that will help, but otherwise, this is what it’s going to be.

Thanks for your honesty and feedback, Zack.  I totally appreciate it!
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Zack
Posted: January 25th, 2010, 5:08pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff,

I do think you're a great writer and you have a decent foundation here, but you really need to add to it. I have the same problem with nearly all of my scripts, so don't feel to bad. I honestly think adding 5-10 pages to the second half of the script would really help flesh this out.

I'll be sure to keep an eye out for more of your shorts.

~Zack~
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Dreamscale
Posted: January 25th, 2010, 5:11pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Tim, thanks so much for the read and review.  Your feedback is appreciated.

Yeah, the stuff about the tail gating is all true and real.  There are numerous “hot spots” around Lambeau Field where huge tail gating parties take place.  One of the most popular is in this K Mart parking lot.

I wasn’t trying to conceal that Logan was going to be our antag here.  I kind of wanted you to know right from the get go.

I agree with you about Emma and characters in general making bad, stupid decisions.  Others have issues with it, but I’m Ok with that.

I agree with you about the “what’d ya say” line.  I’ve changed it (it actually appears in 2 places.  Good catch!

I always spell “a lot” as “alot”.  Saves a space and I truly believe it’s one of those things that can be fine either way.  I also believe that one of these days, it will be totally accepted…we’ll see.

Glad this seemed to work for you for the most part.  Thanks again!
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Dreamscale
Posted: January 25th, 2010, 5:36pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Andrew, wish I could tell you I am well and everything is rosy, but it’s not.  Tough times for this kid lately.  Rough waters ahead, but I’ll try and keep the boat afloat.  Thanks for reading and giving your thoughts.

I wouldn’t necessarily agree that all my scripts center around college kids and beer drinking, but I guess I hear what you’re saying.  No college kids here, but yes, beer drinking.  But they’re at a Packers game in WI, and that’s what goes down there.  WI girls do enjoy their Leinies…they really do!  The Miller Light stuff also provides Logan a perfect “in” so to speak.

Again, I don’t agree with you or the many others that felt like the intro’s and exchanges of Logan and the girls to be either on the nose or unnatural.  Maybe it’s a Midwestern or WI thing?  I don’t know, but I find it very natural and realistic, actually.  Call me crazy.

OK, let’s see…the belch came from WC?  What part?  I honestly don’t recall that.  Billy from Scream brushing back his hair?  Hmmm, not sure about that either, guess it didn’t stand out for me, cause I’ve seen Scream at least 100 times.  What carbon copy is Em’s attack in Fade?  I know that script pretty damn well, and nothing is coming to mind.  You mean that she is hit over the head while she isn’t expecting it?  Otherwise, I don’t see the similarities here at all.

I try to be as imaginative as I can be, and 1 thing people don’t usually label me with is being unimaginable.  Oh well, that’s cool.  Let’s move on…

“Twee” is not a word I’m familiar with.  I think you used it in your Fade review as well, and I think I questioned it then.  As I’ve said a number of times now, this is not a character study and I didn’t want to establish anyone anymore than I did. Sorry if it didn’t work for you.

Em’s “absurd 14 year old dreams of romance” are not really the issue here, IMO.  I wouldn’t even really call it romance.  It’s a situation where guys and girls get together, hook up, whatever happens from there, happens.  Em is new to WI.  Logan comes off as a great “opportunity”.  He’s well to do, he’s attractive, he’s nice, polite, etc.  Alcohol and chemistry took over.  Again, I hear what you’re saying, but I don’t personally agree.

Hostel 2 was great, IMO.  Captivity sucked!  We could discuss the hows and whys to both flicks for hours, but no reason to go there now.

What decomposing bodies in WC?  You mean at the very end where the dude is in that cave with the dogs?  I didn’t intentionally lift anything form anything else.  I really spent quite awhile coming up with everything in here, and IMO, it is quite different from anything else.  But that’s just my opinion.  Sorry this felt limp to you.  That bums me out for sure.

Yes, this is indeed a very negative review, but that’s OK.  I appreciate any and all reviews and definitely respect your opinion, Andrew.  It’s supposed to be something like Tales from the Crypt…exactly, actually.  That’s what Soul Shadows is all about, IMO.

I definitely take your review in the sprit intended, Andrew.  Hopefully, I can deliver on your higher expectations in the near future.  I don’t feel like I’m in a torture vibe at all, actually.  I don’t even see this as torture, to be honest.  That’s just me, I guess.
Thanks again, bud.  Take care.
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Dreamscale
Posted: January 25th, 2010, 5:56pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Ste, long time, bud, hope all is well!  Thanks for reading.

Glad this was a quick, easy read.

I really wasn’t trying to conceal Logan’s true character, but sometimes, when things seem so obvious, well, they’re not.  A good point.

Also a good point about Logan’s fake name.  I debated over this and how to show it, but ended up going this route.  It doesn’t work for everyone.

Someone else also thought about Death Proof.  I didn’t at the time, but I can see where you’re coming from.  Yeah, Maia was indeed mocking Logan, and I’m glad you did see a bit of foreshadowing as to what was going to go down.

Sorry the end didn’t live up to what you were hoping for.  I actually really like how it ends, but most do not.  Can’t please all of ‘em all the time (sometimes, I can’t please any of ‘em, any of the time!).

Thanks again, mate!  I appreciate your input very much.


OK, that's all of them!  I'm caught up.  Thanks again to all who have read and provided feedback.  It means alot to me and it's all taken in and processed.
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