2911.12 by Mark Lyons (rc1107) - Short - A down-and-out squatter seeks refuge in an abandoned house. 14 pages - pdf, format

Mark,

Overall, I thought this was a good, uplifting story.  I guess it's just the way my mind works but I kept expecting some nasty twist at the end.  Probably for the best that it didn't happen.

At 18 pages, this runs a bit long for what it accomplishes.  I think you probably could have made it just as compelling, maybe more so, if you pared it down to 12 pages or so.

Teddy's VO at the end runs for about two pages, which starts to get a little ponderous.

Not a good title, and I don't really understand its significance.

The final flashback left me confused.   We see Teddy pouring the beer down the drain as we hear his VO.  Is this really happening in the past?  I thought this was a shot of him in the near future, after he's conquered his personal demons.

Forgot "Out" after "Fade" at the end there.

I liked the script.  Moved right along, dialogue sounded natural, for the most part.  Just felt a bit padded, as I said.  But overall a good job.

Ryan

Hey Ryan,

Thank you very much for taking a look at this one for me.  This story kind of popped into my head when I was sitting on my front porch and actually counted all the houses in the neighborhood and realized more than half of them were empty.

As kind of a funny aside to the story, the house I actually used for Teddy to stay in was torn down about a week after I wrote this.  A weird coincidence I thought.

Quoted from Ryan1 I thought this was a good, uplifting story.  I guess it's just the way my mind works but I kept expecting some nasty twist at the end.

Lol.  Yeah, I have a couple of those nasty twists hanging around here and there.  I wanted to give a sense of redemption for this story, eventhough Teddy still ends up arrested at the end.  I have a part I cut out showing that Jonathan was a plasterer and has hocks and trowels and lathe and wire cutters to defend himself, but didn't want to push that too far.

Quoted from Ryan1 At 18 pages, this runs a bit long for what it accomplishes.  I think you probably could have made it just as compelling, maybe more so, if you pared it down to 12 pages or so

Yeah, I wanted to make this shorter, but couldn't really find anything to cut out without losing any of Jonathan's or Teddy's character or personality.  I figured out a compensation in that since most of this script is dialogue, it would probably cut the actual running time of this if it was actually filmed to around 13 or 14 minutes.  Hopefully it would, anyway.

Quoted from Ryan1 Not a good title, and I don't really understand its significance.

Damn you!  I love this title!  But I understand what you're saying, though.  It is a rather oblique reference.  Two-nine-eleven-point-two-one is Ohio's code for criminal trespassing.

Quoted from Ryan1 The final flashback left me confused.   We see Teddy pouring the beer down the drain as we hear his VO.  Is this really happening in the past?  I thought this was a shot of him in the near future, after he's conquered his personal demons.

Yeah, that's a flashback of what Teddy did the night he spent over Jonathan's.  He realized what he was going to do wasn't right and decided to change then and there.  Teddy won't be getting out of jail for awhile, actually.  Even with the redeemable note, true, Jonathan would've dropped the charges, but the state of Ohio would've picked them up and made it stick to get more money out of the situation and fines.  I had a scene showing where that happened, but decided to cut that at the risk of having a twenty-five pager.

Quoted from Ryan1 I liked the script.  Moved right along, dialogue sounded natural, for the most part.

thank you.  I'm glad you liked it.  I hate this, though.  I wrote this a couple months ago and went through the dialogue over and over and decided I liked it.  But now, I just went through the dialogue again and found a good amount of stuff I'd like to change.

But thank you again for checking this out for me.  I'll be seeing you around.

- Mark

Mark,

Kinda slow paced, but good.  Your dialogue spacing also looks a little off.  What program are you writing in?

Honestly I was expecting some hardcore thriller with shootings, stabbings, sex, blood, and profanity laced tirades.  What I got instead was, well, a nice story about forgiveness and a calm ending that I think delivered a good message.  

It did read slow, though.  Part of it is the description that I think could be tightened up in a lot of areas and some of the dialogue felt fluffy, like Teddy's final VO.  While I don't recommend necessarily chiseling down on that, I would go back and find ways to cut down on the surrounding action which, I think, inflates the page number.  

My shorts usually go long too, so I have that same problem ha-ha.  

But overall this was a nice story.  Good job.

Greg

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Don't pour it down the drain!!!!!!!!

But seriously Mark, a very nice little story...other than the wasted beer. The V.O. at then end worked for me, but could probably be shortened by a few lines. Once we got the point, we got the point.

I was confused by the names: both last names are Riley. a typo?

As script readers, we're all on the lookout for that final twist, but you certainly don't need them, especially if you're just trying to capture something quick, like in a short. You have your main plot turn, that was plenty. Good work.

Hey Mark, what up, man?  Just read this.

Powerful shit here, my friend, powerful shit!  Really liked the story, and have to say, it moved me.  20 minutes later, and I'm a bit teary eyed, which is rather rare for me.

As a script, it has problems, which I think you can easily fix.

As the 2 others noted, at 18 pages, it's long for a short.  But, IMO, that's based on 18 pages, cause this isn't 18 minutes of film...not even close.  It's overwritten, it's written more like a novel, or in this case, a short story.  As written, it's probably no more than 13 or 14 minutes, but it really should be no more than 12, as IMO, that's kind of the limit most have for both a read and a watch, of a short, filmed version.

You're providing too much detail in pretty much every scene.  You've got a bunch of orphans.  You've got alot of wasted time with Miss Lydia, who has no business being here, other than to show us that Jon's a god guy, but you could do that in a few lines, very easily.

You've got some Slug issues early on, and glaring ones, when Teddy gets into Jon's car, cause we're still in an EXT scene. These need major tightening up and attention.  Slugs should be your friends, cause they can give so much info in a single line and the way you're using them here, isn't working, IMO.

The stuff near the end with Teddy pissing is over detailed, confusing, and IMO, not necessary not all.

The VO with the note great, powerful, and the meat here, but again, just too long and drawn out.

Finally, you need to label the Flashback at the end...if you truly want it, and I don't think it adds anything at all, personally.

The title doesn't work, as no one will get it and IMO, it really doesn't even mean anything to the story.

You've got to cut this down to 12-13 pages, max, and IMO, you can easily do it.  You've got a wonderful, powerful story and message here.  It works and it comes off as something that could easily be taken to the next level.  Do that, and see where it goes.

Hope this helps.

Hey rc1107

Read this piece last night.

Good job IMO. Easy read and was able to visualize this pretty well.

Kind of expected some sort of major twist at the end. Not there and thats just fine.

Pretty straight forward story and well executed. Good job.

I thought this was a good story, though it did drag on a bit.  I disagree with Hugh about the twist at the end; I thought that the truth about Teddy was surprising and interesting enough.

I found your characters to be very realistic and developed, without being over the top.  They worked for me very well.

I think your dialog was a little on-the-nose after the cops were introduced.  You just started explaining everything in too much detail.

Oh, and the title doesn't work at all.  Most police departments use ten-codes, so people won't begin to imagine what your title means.

Hope this helps.


Phil

Hey Mark,

Good to see you getting some sage advice from seasoned veterans.
I like the story, it's got that slow burn narrative tug most struggle to achieve.
It sets its own pace and unfolds with quiet confidence, that's good drama.

You've got the power in place, but there's some things dulling its strength.
Miss Lydia goes on too long, you can get her point across much sooner.

I don't get the title, at all. A good title can crystallize a theme for the reader.
Perhaps something about the night watch on guard duty or something.
Tie that into the surveillance that Teddy does on Johnathan.
Watching your enemy from a far, you think you know them, but you don't.
No matter what you read about them, it's not who that individual is.
But you still have to shoot, because it's what you've been trained to do.
Utilize that military subtext and I think it will help tighten the story.
Something like that will increase the power of your story tenfold.

Overall, this can be shorter. Or, rewrite dialogue using the aforementioned suggestion.
When I go back and reread it, Teddy doesn't seem to be firing on all cylinders.
He's not asking all the right questions to feel out this person he hates.
Setting up that subtext will make this sparkle.

Once again, you go for the resolution where no one gets to share in the revelation.
It seems to be a recurring theme in your stories that I've read.
Here, it's less obtrusive and more appropriate.
Biggest dialogue complaint is all the on the nose business with the cop.
Maybe the cop and Johnathan are friends.
The cop takes his buddy to Teddy's place, let us discover it with your protag.
Reveal the daggers earlier for sure, but everything else comes at the end.
You don't need the surveillance stuff in the middle.
It somewhat detracts from the synergy Teddy and Johnathan have.

Hope this helps, I like this story, very solid work.
Keep writing and rewriting!

Regards,
E.D.

Thanks everybody for taking a look at this.  Sorry I didn't have time this morning to leave any replies.  I got a lot of making up to do now.

Quoted from Greg Your dialogue spacing also looks a little off.  What program are you writing in?

Lol.  Actually Microsoft Word Processor right now.  I'm going to be downloading one of the software programs offline, though.  Hopefully it'll fix some stuff up because there's been a couple mentions now of spacing being off.

Quoted from Greg Honestly I was expecting some hardcore thriller with shootings, stabbings, sex, blood, and profanity laced tirades.

You've been reading my other stories on SS, haven't you?  :-)

Quoted from Greg the description that I think could be tightened up in a lot of areas

I do a lot of prose stories and I'm still trying to find that line between prose writing and screenwriting.  I realize the main difference is that in screenwriting, you have to trust your audience to get the image in their head for themselves, while in prose, your audience expects you to get them inside the characters' heads.

That's going to take a lot of discipline for me to get used to that.

Quoted from Greg a nice story about forgiveness and a calm ending that I think delivered a good message.

Thank you again for taking a look through this.  I'm glad you liked it.

Hey Kevin.

Quoted from leitskev Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Don't pour it down the drain!!!!!!!!

Heartwrenching, ain't it?  Most depressing thing I've ever written.  :-)  You know I was truly in my character's head because I would never think of doing anything as messed up as that.

But I got through it, because even though I just said 'cheap' beer in the description, it was Schaeffer's in my head, (which is like dumping just water down the drain anyway.)

Quoted from leitskev I was confused by the names: both last names are Riley. a typo?

Shoot!  Son of a Bee!  Yeah, I missed that.  It's supposed to be Jonathan Riley and Teddy Oliver, then we see that Jonathan had killed Katie Oliver in a DUI accident years and years ago.


Thanks, Kev, for taking a look at this one.  I'm really happy to see the concensus is that everybody seems to be enjoying this one.  (I don't know if 'concensus' is spelled right, and I have too many windows open right now to check dictionary.com, but I promise I'll check and edit later.)  Glad you liked it.

I drank Schaeffer all through college. It was a dollar more a case than the cheapest, which was Red White and Blue. I never could afford a case of Budweiser until I started bartending. So...I have a warm spot for Schaeffer!

Hey Jeff.

Nothing too much up here in my part of the woods.  How's yours been doing?
Sorry, I was trying to get to your post lastnight, but I've been working some open to closes and had to hit the hay early.

Quoted from dreamscale Powerful shit here, my friend, powerful shit!  Really liked the story, and have to say, it moved me.  20 minutes later, and I'm a bit teary eyed, which is rather rare for me.

Thank you very much for reading this, and the kind words.  Really, you'd be surprised how much that lifted my day.

Quoted from dreamscale at 18 pages, it's long for a short   ....   You're providing too much detail in pretty much every scene.  You've got a bunch of orphans.  You've got alot of wasted time with Miss Lydia, who has no business being here, other than to show us that Jon's a god guy.

Yeah, I'm still trying to pare my writing down.  I'm so used to writing prose and trying to convey visuals...  I have to just get the idea in my head that a street's just a street, and not use flowery words to describe that it's fall and stuff like that.  If I write a story straight into screenplay form, I don't seem to have that problem too much, but when I work turning a prose story into a screenplay, I get insecure about losing textured descriptions.

I should've seen before that Miss Lydia could've been cut, or just have a shot of her looking out her window noticing Teddy.  I only used her as a catalyst for Jonathan to get Teddy out of the vacant house as quick as possible, but all she really did was add clutter to the first page.

Quoted from dreamscale You've got some Slug issues early on, and glaring ones

I'm going to have to go back and dust off some old books to learn about slugs, cause I've gotten a couple 'heads-ups' that my slugs are off.  I've never really paid attention to them honestly (even when I read, I don't even examine them too well.)  So I think I'm missing something really important about them that could probably make my screenwriting a lot smoother.

Quoted from dreamscale The stuff near the end with Teddy pissing is over detailed, confusing, and IMO, not necessary not all.

That was a quick little thing I added in at the last minute because in the moment, I kind of wanted something to make it seem like, 'all right, Teddy's about to make his move.'  Just add some suspense really.  I should've analyzed it a lot more than I did.

Quoted from dreamscale Finally, you need to label the Flashback at the end...if you truly want it, and I don't think it adds anything at all, personally.

It is labeled as a flashback.  Did you mean that I formatted for the flashback wrong, though?  I think I've formatted my flashbacks differently in every script I've written, just trying to get a feel for what works best for me in how to label them.  (I don't like using flashbacks in the first place, unless I think they can be utilized in a unique way).

I wasn't too sure exactly how (or where) to end the story.  The short story kind of trails on a little bit longer and tells more about what exactly happens to Teddy, but writing the screenplay, I wanted the story to end with that image of Teddy pouring the alcohol down the sink.  (Kind of a sign that even though shit's happened, he's still going to move on in life with a positive attitude.)

Quoted from JC Cleveland The title doesn't work, as no one will get it and IMO, it really doesn't even mean anything to the story.

Truth is, I totally racked my brain for a week or two after I wrote this trying to think of a title, and I came up with squat.  Literally, an early prose version of this was titled 'Squat'.  Well, I didn't want anybody to think this was one of my disgusting torture porn ventures about scat or anything, so I ditched that title.  'Thanksgiving' crossed my mind briefly, but I tossed it aside because I already have a feature called that and I plan on rewriting it pretty soon (If I can find it.  I only had a paper version of it and I think it got tossed out.)

Then, somebody broke into the abandoned house next to me and I heard the cop refer to that code.  I had to look it up.

Honestly, after I heard him say that and I looked it up, it seemed like magic hit me and I was like 'There it is!  The perfect title!'.  It's amazing how great we think an idea can be, but how wrong we actually are.


Well thank you again, Jeff, for taking the time to break this one down for me.  It's much appreciated and I'm really glad you liked it.  I'll be seeing you around.  I haven't been able to do much reading this past week or two besides the challenges, but I got some time off coming and I should be able to do a lot of reading this week.  So I'll be seeing you around.

- Mark

Hey Mr. Hoyland,

Quoted from Hugh Hoyland Good job IMO. Easy read and was able to visualize this pretty well. Kind of expected some sort of major twist at the end. Not there and thats just fine. Pretty straight forward story and well executed. Good job.

Thank you for taking a read through this.  Glad you saw it playing out clearly in your mind.  I do admit I'm a huge culprit of overwriting, but I still smile when I hear people say they visualize everything pretty easily.  Thanks again.

Hey Phil,

I have a poker tournament coming up next week I won my way into, so hopefully I'll be able to send something over to help 'Bad Penguin' get made.  (Considering I've bombed the tournament the past eight times I've played in it, don't expect too much, though.)  But my thoughts and sentiments are there nonetheless.

Quoted from dogglebe I thought this was a good story, though it did drag on a bit.

Yeah, I wasn't too sure exactly where I wanted to end this one.  There were more scenes I had written for it but knew that it was getting unacceptable and decided to cut it there, and I can see where I can cut it throughout the story, also, to help the pacing.

Quoted from dogglebe I disagree with Hugh about the twist at the end; I thought that the truth about Teddy was surprising and interesting enough.

Thank you.  I think that because there was so much of an expectation of a showdown between Jonathan and Teddy, that if they did go at it, then that wouldn't have been a twist at all, because everyone expected the story to go there.  That would've been just a straightforward ending in my eyes.

Quoted from dogglebe I found your characters to be very realistic and developed, without being over the top.  They worked for me very well.

One thing I was really worried about, besides them being over the top or melodramatic, was I didn't want them to sound the same.  I think while I was writing, I realized I was putting myself too much in both their shoes and they had both gotten a little bit too much like I would talk myself and I wasn't separating their voices clearly enough.  I went back and reworked it, so I'm really happy to see that you think they were realistic.

Quoted from dogglebe I think your dialog was a little on-the-nose after the cops were introduced.  You just started explaining everything in too much detail.

I am never bringing cops or the law into any of my stories ever again!  I have a real problem writing cops for some reason, and I use them so boringly and they're just there for filler to explain stuff and because logically, they have to be there.  It's been like that in a few of my stories.  The story just stales with them in it because I use them so exact, and I just can't shake that staleness out of them for some reason.

Quoted from dogglebe Oh, and the title doesn't work at all.  Most police departments use ten-codes, so people won't begin to imagine what your title means.

Yeah, I was telling Jeff about it earlier, I was having a real hard time trying to come up with a title for this, and nothing I was coming up with sounded remotely good.  Then, I heard the reference to the criminal charge for it and honestly, I thought it was great.  I was so offput by not coming up with a title, that it felt like lightning when it hit.  (Ahh, the delusions of grandeur.)


Thank you again very much for reading this one for me, Phil.  I appreciate it greatly and I'm glad it worked for you.

I'll be seeing you around.

- Mark

Hey Brett, what's up?

Quoted from electric dreamer Miss Lydia goes on too long, you can get her point across much sooner.

Yeah, I see how to make that first page read better now, and only really have her look out her window or something like that.  Taking her out will make a much less clunky opening page.

Although, I must admit, I lose one of my favorite lines about her saying 'I can't wait til God gets His chance to tell them how wrong they are.'  I actually heard somebody say that before and I was looking for a chance to use it in one of my stories.  (They weren't referring to somebody trespassing, but it was just as minor an offense.)  And the first thing that popped into my head was the bible story and prayer that says God forgives those who forgive those that sin against them.  

(I'm not a bible person in the slightest, but I went to a Catholic school and I love hearing the hypocrisy in people's voices sometimes.  Makes me laugh.)

Quoted from electric dreamer I don't get the title, at all. A good title can crystallize a theme for the reader.

Lol.  I was saying above I couldn't come up for a title to this one at all.  Usually, I never have a problem with titles and have gotten a lot of compliments on them and I've kind of come to pride myself on them.  But a lot of people don't like this title.  Actually, I don't think anybody so far.

It sucks because I was proud of myself when this title hit me, too.  (It's Ohio's charge for criminal trespassing.)  Obscure, I know, and I didn't expect anybody to take the time and Google or Dogpile it.  (I like dogpile better than google, for some reason.), but I was hoping somebody would mention that it was at least a LITTLE clever.  (Lol.  I don't expect that now.)

Quoted from electric dreamer Overall, this can be shorter.

Yeah, I had cut and clipped the story down, but I see even more parts I can do without now.  (It's 17 pages in screenplay form, (with heavy dialogue).  It was originally twenty-six pages in prose form.  Putting this into a screenplay version, though, has helped me see things in the prose and I whittled that down to twenty pages.)

Quoted from electric dreamer Teddy doesn't seem to be firing on all cylinders.

Lol.  I don't think you meant that as a compliment, but I'm going to take it as one.  :-)  And I say that because I actually wanted there to be something 'off' about Teddy.  He really wasn't truly quite right in the head.  (He wasn't too far gone to be saved, he just needed to be guided in the right direction and had to grow up a little.)

I think what you meant by not firing on all cylinders was he didn't come off as the sleek military type.  (Buzz cut, very intelligent and sharp, very learned in fighting ways because of their training.  Very responsible.)  But I meant for Teddy to be more of a traumatized veteran.  Someone who can't get a grip on their emotions.  Someone who really isn't the type to go into the army in the firstplace and didn't get from it what he should have.  (He was based on somebody I've actually met before.)

Quoted from electric dreamer Biggest dialogue complaint is all the on the nose business with the cop.

Yeah, you know I have huge difficulties with writing cops.  We've talked before about it.  I hate having to write those fuckers into my stories.  They're just there to tie up loose ends for me and I really have to find a way to utilize them and make them unique.


Thank you once again, Brett, for reading my stuff.  All of your posts have been big help to me and I appreciate it a lot.

- Mark

Quoted from rc1107 Although, I must admit, I lose one of my favorite lines about her saying 'I can't wait til God gets His chance to tell them how wrong they are.'  I actually heard somebody say that before and I was looking for a chance to use it in one of my stories.  (They weren't referring to somebody trespassing, but it was just as minor an offense.)  And the first thing that popped into my head was the bible story and prayer that says God forgives those who forgive those that sin against them.

Hey Mark,

It's a good line, I'm sure you can find a way to keep it in there. :P

Quoted from rc1107 Lol.  I don't think you meant that as a compliment, but I'm going to take it as one.  :-)  And I say that because I actually wanted there to be something 'off' about Teddy.  He really wasn't truly quite right in the head.  (He wasn't too far gone to be saved, he just needed to be guided in the right direction and had to grow up a little.) I think what you meant by not firing on all cylinders was he didn't come off as the sleek military type.  (Buzz cut, very intelligent and sharp, very learned in fighting ways because of their training.  Very responsible.)  But I meant for Teddy to be more of a traumatized veteran.  Someone who can't get a grip on their emotions.  Someone who really isn't the type to go into the army in the firstplace and didn't get from it what he should have.  (He was based on somebody I've actually met before.)

Sorry for not being clearer on this before.
What I meant was is that Teddy doesn't seem to be asking the right questions.
Teddy has pursued someone he hates and must try to not blow his cover.
I don't get the sense that he's struggling with his desires much.
He wants this guy dead, but his nature makes him get closer.
It may start out that Teddy wants Jonathan to know why he's going to die.
But them Teddy internally grows as he gets to know Johnathan.
When I read it the second time, the motivators didn't quite line up.
When I re-watched "The Sixth Sense", it's like watching a new movie.
There should be a similar authenticity here when I go back through things.
Seeming innocuous questions have a different connotation, etc.

Quoted from rc1107 Thank you once again, Brett, for reading my stuff.  All of your posts have been big help to me and I appreciate it a lot. - Mark

It's my pleasure Mark, you're sitting on some strong talent there.
You can write compelling drama without forcing it out on the page.
I haven't run into too often here.
Hope your other story is shaping up nicely.

Keep writing and rewriting!

Regards,
E.D.

Hi Mark

Just read this as I'm finishing my shift at work - good to read something new from you.

The pacing of the script is pretty slow but I think that matches the mood you're trying to set. I could picture the avenues and abandoned houses clearly.

I think the strongest points of the script are the dialogue and the message that's behind it all. Also, there doesn't seem to be many wasted words - as in all the dialogue and actions have a meaning by the end of the script.

One thing I would suggest is to make Jonathan more religious. You hint that he believes in God during his conversation with Miss Lydia but he doesn't mention God or religion again. Maybe just something as simple as a crucifix around his neck or something pinned on the fridge by the clipping. Not a big thing but could create another angle for the script.

Liked this a lot and pleased you took it in a different way than I was expecting.

Ste

Quoted from E.D. There should be a similar authenticity here when I go back through things. Seeming innocuous questions have a different connotation, etc.

Ahh, I got what you're talking about.  I'm going to have to go back and see what I can come up with, make the story work on other levels.

Thanks again.


What's been up, Ste?

Quoted from stebrown I could picture the avenues and abandoned houses clearly

Woohoo!  Chalk up one point for the overwriters!  That is one thing that I focus on a lot when I write is to paint a clear picture of everything, but without it being obtrusive to the story.

Quoted from stebrown I think the strongest points of the script are the dialogue and the message that's behind it all

Thank you.  The message was my main aim to get across, of what it means to give of yourself and help others.  I'm glad that point seems to stand out with most people in the script.

Quoted from stebrown One thing I would suggest is to make Jonathan more religious. You hint that he believes in God during his conversation with Miss Lydia but he doesn't mention God or religion again. Maybe just something as simple as a crucifix around his neck or something pinned on the fridge by the clipping. Not a big thing but could create another angle for the script.

Actually, I wanted to steer people away that Jonathan was doing good for any religious reason.  I wanted him to do it because it was the right thing to do, not because a book or scriptures tells a person to do it.  The religion was Miss Lydia's thing and he was just trying nicely to point out that she was being a hypocrite.  Going back and reading it again, I can see how it can be construed that Jonathan was being religious.  I'll have to go back in the script and clear that up.

Anyway, Ste, thank you very much for the read.  Glad you liked it and thank you for letting me know that the message was coming across.

I'll be seeing ya around.

- Mark

Revenge is a theme you turn to often in your work, although this script plays out a little differently from where you usually take your stories, and I like that this one is trying to be about something larger than the story itself.  At the risk of sounding stuffy, I would even call it a maturation of your former work.

The scene where Jonathan meets Teddy is the highlight for me.  It is here that the dialogue flows the best, with small twists that still feel natural somehow, and nice revelations about these characters without feeling too talky.  The line about pride is particularly good, and telling.

I think your description of "loud thuds on wood" -- which you use several times -- is unintentionally confusing.  It takes several moments to realize that you are talking about somebody pounding on the door.  We all know what that sounds like, so no need to be coy.  I would change that to state explicitly that he awakens to someone pounding on his front door.

Teddy's note is simply too long.  The talk of apologies and forgiveness is too repetitive, and he says different forms of the same thing several times over.  This segment would be all the more powerful if you were to trim it up, and have Teddy deliver his message in simple sentences.  It would not be too hard, and to start I would lay a ground-rule that you could only use the words "apologize" and "forgive" one time each.

The final flashback seems to be misplaced.  I would have placed it a few seconds earlier, myself.  You are telling Jonathan's story here, and it really seems that you should end on Jonathan.

So while I am not fond of the title, I did like the piece.  A powerful story with potential, a small cast, and cheaply accomplished.  Give this thing a worthy title and perhaps it might attract a little attention.

Quoted from bert I would even call it a maturation of your former work.

Crap.  You give me such a nice compliment like that and then I have to go write a story like the one I wrote earlier today.  Can you do me a favor and (if you ever plan on reading it), just skip the next story I submit so you don't have to retract that 'maturity' statement?

Yeah, in the collection of short stories I've been trying to put together lately, a lot of the themes have to do with either revenge or redemption.

Thank you very much for the compliments.  It's really nice to hear people describing this as powerful and that the dialogue is realistic.

Quoted from bert I think your description of "loud thuds on wood" -- which you use several times -- is unintentionally confusing.  It takes several moments to realize that you are talking about somebody pounding on the door.  We all know what that sounds like, so no need to be coy.

Hmm.  Yeah, that was definately unintentional.  I never really even thought too much about that.  Writing that part in my head was just more of a transitional thing and I never gave that too much thought.  I'll have to go back and take a look at it, clear it up.

Quoted from bert Teddy's note is simply too long.  The talk of apologies and forgiveness is too repetitive,  ....  The final flashback seems to be misplaced

Wow.  Guess I do drag out the forgiveness thing, huh?  I wanted Jonathan and Teddy to interact more so Teddy could tell Jonathan about his feelings face to face, but at the same time, I really didn't want to have a thirty-forty page melodrama in my hands, so I thought a note, almost a journal entry, might get those extreme feelings across.  I see what you mean that needs toned down.

Quoted from bert So while I am not fond of the title, I did like the piece.  A powerful story with potential, a small cast, and cheaply accomplished.  Give this thing a worthy title...

You people don't know what you're talking about.  You guys wouldn't know a great title if it smacked you in the forehead.  I'm done with this crap.

:-)  All right. All right.  I'm getting everybody's subtle hints that this needs a new title.  I think I already told you about the trouble I had titling this one.  I think I'm going to take a day this week and devote it strictly to deciding a new name for this one.

Thank you again very much for reading this one, bert, and double thanks for all your thoughts and advice on it.

And I was just kidding about the story I just finished today, it's really not as bad as I was making it out to be.

Thanks again.

- Mark

Mark,

Good stuff here my Youngstown friend. Very moving. I will agree a little with others that this ran a bit long. Just a tad though. I think a good filmaker would really pace this thing slowly as you did with it as a script.

Its tough to think of things that would punch up a story like this as a short piece of film. My suggestions...

You need to villafy Jonathan a bit. I think he should be drunk when he kills teddy's sister. You have two good guys here. You need to show reason for one to want to kill the other. Even if Jonathan was texting while driving, at least show us something that it wasn't a complete fluke accident. I really believe this piece begs for that. Then, when Teddy meets him, He can see Jonathan has devoted his life to helping others less fortunate for him because of his guilt.

The very last V.O. line in the flashback fell flat for me.

TEDDY (V.O.)
I know now that there's a lot more
to life than just struggling to
get by yourself.

I think you need to set this up better or rewrite it. As many have said, this has a slow pace. One way to pick it up would to be the flashback of Teddy pouring out all his beers in Jonathans sink to start. Then give him a good (V.O.) line. We wouldn't know its Jonathan's sink at this point.

Tell your story...

Then, when Jonathan sees the empties in his sink at the end... We hear Teddy's (V.O.) line again. As an audience, we will get it. And, to me, it would have more power. Good luck with it. I think this is a very filmable short. Best I've read here in awhile.

James

What's up, James?  How's things been?  Congrats on the writer's challenge, by the way.  Good job.

Much thanks for checking this one out.  Really glad you liked it.

Quoted from jwent You need to villafy Jonathan a bit. I think he should be drunk when he kills teddy's sister.

Actually, he was.  I did have him come out and say in dialogue directly to the cop that he was drunk-driving when he crashed into Katie Oliver, but reviewing it, it sounded cliche and didn't flow off the tongue for me, so I axed that line.  There's subtle hints about it, though, that I was hoping would stand as to why Jonathan doesn't drink and why he wants to help others so bad.  That's why when Teddy asks him if he wants a beer, he says "No, I don't drink."  and Teddy looks shocked at that.  Then later on, when Teddy declares 'Well, you kicked your drinking problem...' and Jonathan replies "I never told you I had a drinking problem..."  I was hoping those parts represented Jonathan's alcohol problems in the past and hope people would get that he killed her in a drunk driving accident.

I'll have to go back and see if I can make that part a little bit clearer.

Quoted from jwent the flashback of Teddy pouring out all his beers in Jonathans sink to start. Then give him a good (V.O.) line. We wouldn't know its Jonathan's sink at this point. Tell your story... Then, when Jonathan sees the empties in his sink at the end... We hear Teddy's (V.O.) line again.

That could work very well, actually.  I was a little bit unsure as to how (and where) to end this.  When I wrote this as a prose short story, I knew exactly how I wanted it to end because the prose version is mostly an internal story.  It got a little tricky for me to do the screenplay because I have to show everything out that happens, instead of just saying what Jonathan's thinking.  I was really confused where to put that image of Teddy pouring out the beer and I think you just fixed it for me.

Pretty good idea, James.  Thank you for that.  You've brought up some very good points and ideas in a couple other of my stories, too.  I appreciate that a lot.

Once again, really happy to hear you liked it, and good luck to you on your next challenge.  I don't know if anybody threw their hat into the ring yet for the next one.  I was thinking about it the other night, have a little Battle of the Rust Belt, but I have a lot of doubles coming up that I have to work and wasn't too sure if I'd have the time.

Anyway, thanks again.  I'll be seeing you around.

- Mark

Hey Mark,

This is much more like it. While I wasn't a fan overall of the last script, this more than makes up for it. I'd argue you're writing much more from the heart and in your own voice here. This is a fantastic little script, make no doubt about it. You're dealing with themes of redemption, forgiveness and wrapping them up in contemporary issues. And you do it so well.

I agree that the title needs changing and that you can knock a few pages off to create a leaner script. A rewrite tidying things up would achieve that - in my mind, it doesn't require fundamental changes. In turn, you'd make this much more attractive to produce as a 10 minute max short - that said, this could be filmed as it is under 18 minutes for sure. I'd imagine you're getting more than a few requests (and justifiably so) from people looking to produce this script. I'd argue you should hold out for a team who will bring some real value to it. Done properly, this could be a terrific short film. Not something to be wasted for a low value production.

My only problem was the incongruous "Southside Niggaz". It read uncomfortable and played no real significance. Not sure how others feel about it, but it stuck with me for all the wrong reasons.

Really good work and best of luck with this one.

Hey Andrew.

Glad to see this one hit a much better note with you.  Redemption and forgiveness is a big thing on my agenda these days, personally.  And yeah, my own voice (and even my actions, like the work with the mission) are in both of these characters.  (Jonathan being the person I am now, and Teddy the person I used to be, though I never thought about killing anybody, I'm talking about Teddy's personality and his realizations.)  That's why I had to watch myself writing it, they were starting to sound too much alike at certain points.

Yuck.  The title.  Don't remind me.  It's been like 7 months since I wrote this now (in short story form), and still a replacement title hasn't popped in my head.  And I'm definately going to be looking into shaving this one down to make it more page count friendly.  I see where there's a lot of extraneous stuff now.

As for the Southside Niggaz, I was just trying to slice in pieces of real life.  The house I had in mind while using this (which was demolished a week after I finished writing the short story prose version), actually had Southside Niggaz graffitied on it.  Almost every vacant house on my street has either graffiti from them (who I'm guessing are crips) or the Erie Street Bangers (who I'm guessing are bloods).  Yes, you guessed it.  I live in the ghetto.  It's a far cry from the farm I owned just three short years ago.

Quoted from Andrew I'd imagine you're getting more than a few requests (and justifiably so) from people looking to produce this script.

Actually, not a one.  And I'm guessing the page count has a lot to do with that, that's why I'm going to work it down.

Thank you very much Andrew, for doing the double feature tonight.  I'm glad that at least one of them were entertaining for you.  Thank you very much for all your opinions on them.

Talk to you later.

- Mark

Yo Mark 2

WTF with that title?

I figured I owe you a read and I dug this one out... I know the last one I read "Burnside" was about an alcoholic that lived in a neighborhood full of abandoned houses.

BURNSIDE
Oscar turns and looks back at his neighborhood.
Most of the houses are abandoned and in ruins.  The windows
broke and doors kicked in.


2911.21
Only half the houses are raked.  The others are empty and vacant
and graffitied.  Some of them, the windows are broken and doors
kicked in.


You should change it up, maybe kick the windows in next time and have the doors broken

Just messing

I gotta say, I enjoyed this "short". A little longer than average, but still, it kept me intrigued til the end. It had a nice bittersweet ending, it could all have been too easy for Ted to put a bullet in Jonathan's head. Realizing the good that Jonathan is doing with his life, helped saved his own.

As usual, it's well written from you and some of the dialogue was on the nose, but didn't spoil the read.

Good job

Mark jr(even though I'm older)

Hey other Mark.  (Man, people reading our posts to each other have to be confused.  :-)

Again, sorry for the late reply.

Lol.  '2911.21'.  This title got bashed on the boards by quite a few people.  I've liked the title, but agree, it is different.  It's actually Ohio's penal code for criminal trespassing.

Strange enough, this has been picked up to shoot (funding came through not too long ago) and the director said he liked the title and didn't want to change it.  Even though it'll be shot in New York, he's still going to keep the setting in Youngstown.

Quoted from Mark You should change it up, maybe kick the windows in next time and have the doors broken

Lol.  You noticed.  You weren't supposed to read 'Burnside' and '2911' back-to back.  This version of '2911.21' is the first draft.  That description got edited out of the final draft of '2911.21', but I loved it so much, I recycled it into the storyboard that I eventually worked into 'Burnside'.  A lot of my edits, (and even some stuff I don't edit) I love recycling into other works.

Can you tell Youngstown doesn't change much?

I think most of my shorts end up being between 12-20 pages long.  (The final draft of this story ended up 14 pages I think.)  I love stories that have a little more meat to them and get a little more involving.  I think that's why I've been lucky enough to work mainly with directors already attached to studios or production company's rather than student filmmakers.  They're more willing to put in extra work and able to get extra money here and there if they need it.

(Now all I'm hoping for is that all these stories I have in production will see the light of day soon.  I'm not liking the waiting game.)

As of lately, though, my shorts have been in the 6-12 page range to meet certain requirements and budgets.  I don't mind those stories, either.

Anyway, I'm glad this one worked for you, and I'm pretty sure I brushed up most of the on-the-nose dialogue by the final draft, but it's been so long since I've gone back to this one, I'm scared to look.  :-)

Thanks again, Mark.  I'm pretty sure you didn't owe me any reads, (in fact, I think I owe you), but I appreciate you taking a look and letting me know what you thought.

You'll be hearing from me soon.

- The Real Mark

Hey the lesser of  2 Marks

No probs on the read. Great news that it was picked up and the funds finally came through
Can't wait to see the end product.

Marky Mark with no funky bunch

Mark

Another solid piece here, man.

I consider myself a growing fan of your work particularly on the basis of this and Burnside.

Similar to Burnside, I liked the slow build. Once again you take great care to paint the picture in terms of location, setting up a clear and defined mood to proceedings without it feeling laborious or overwritten.

I wondered why Jonathan was so generous and accommodating to Teddy until you cleverly introduce the war veteran element, it helps ground their interactions with a certain earnestness while shaking of any claims of contrivance. The added revelation at the end with Jonathan’s own past justifies it even more.

I like how you planted the reveal of Teddy’s secret surveillance of Jonathan right after Jonathan has been so good to him and they’re about to share a house together for the night. Perfect timing to intrigue the reader and raise the tension of the upcoming scenes.

Up to this point I was on board, strapped in, totally immersed in the story. The dialogue flowed nicely, felt realistic and true to the well drawn, fleshed out characters…and in such few pages too. Once in Jonathan’s house, the interjection of wry humour between the two alleviated the tension somewhat…until it was cranked up again with Teddy occasionally letting his guard down before talking his way out of again. All finely balanced, culminating in the tense moments of Teddy pausing outside Jonathan’s room. So far so good…

Unfortunately, I think you dropped the ball to a certain degree when the cop talks to Jonathan and we find the true identity of Teddy and his motivations. In particular when Jonathan says.

JONATHAN
It was a long time ago. I was on my
way home after a Sadies Hawkins dance.
I killed a girl in another car.

Man, was this big reveal dropped so flippantly or what?! I had to re-read it to make sure I had picked it up correctly. Very little is given away in regards of reactions or demeanour in both the cop and Jonathan, it’s like he’s saying something completely innocuous and insignificant as opposed to a nugget of information which has essentially set this whole chain of events in motion. I think you need to play this up a bit more, rephrase it, dramatise it but without manipulation.

However, you finished strongly. Some may frown at the extensive VO but I reckon it would work well juxtaposed over the images you present; the tidiness of the room Teddy stayed in, Jonathan smelling the sink hole (as the unpleasant odour is duly explained in the letter) and Teddy’s discovery of the obituary clipping in the kitchen all flow beautifully while adding poignancy to the sentiments of the letter.

And it’s these sentiments underpinning the piece that elevate it to something special. Tackling a theme as heavy and riddled with mawkish sentimentality as forgiveness is a brave vocation to take on and it’s to your credit that you pull it off.

I take great heart in the idea of forgiveness being bestowed upon one lost soul to another amid the dour destitution all around them. The belief that the goodness in humanity can (sometimes) triumph over tragedy, loss and hopelessness, the belief in our ability to recognize someone’s genuine efforts to turn their life around and right a wrong and how this inspires the stricken one to make the right decision as a result cannot, and should not, be taken lightly. A powerful concept which I think you executed admirably in the closing pages and it’s this message I take away with me from the read, no better gift then that. Thank you.

Col.

P.S. I’m presuming that Teddy’s surname isn’t Riley as written on page 1. A typo, yeah? Get it sorted and repost it pronto as it threw me off momentarily when we get to the “answers” part of the script from page 12 onwards.

P.P.S. What does the title mean?

Hey Col.

Thanks for cracking this one open.  I actually went back and looked at the script (under this link) and realized I never did update the second draft to the board, so I'm sorry for the mistakes that are still here.  (Lol.  This was also written in Microsoft Works.  Yes, Works.  Not Word.  So that's why the margins are pretty off, also.)  I almost feel ashamed for having this draft up now, but don't know if it'd be worth uploading it again since it's already in production.  (That typo with Teddy RILEY really ticked me off when I saw it.  I don't know how I missed that!)

But thank you nevertheless for the very warm compliments.  They're very humbling coming from you and reading your well-analyzed critiques of stories over the years.

Quoted from Col Unfortunately, I think you dropped the ball to a certain degree when the cop talks to Jonathan

I agree with you there.  I did force that reveal into the cops' dialogue and remember that reading very on the nose and matter of fact.  In the other final draft I wrote, I think I toned the matter of factness down, but I do believe it is still delivered through their dialogue.  I wrote the second draft over a year and a half ago, so I don't remember if I corrected that exactly.

Quoted from Col And it’s these sentiments underpinning the piece that elevate it to something special. Tackling a theme as heavy and riddled with mawkish sentimentality as forgiveness is a brave vocation to take on and it’s to your credit that you pull it off. I take great heart in the idea of forgiveness being bestowed upon one lost soul to another amid the dour destitution all around them. The belief that the goodness in humanity can (sometimes) triumph over tragedy, loss and hopelessness, the belief in our ability to recognize someone’s genuine efforts to turn their life around and right a wrong and how this inspires the stricken one to make the right decision as a result cannot, and should not, be taken lightly. A powerful concept which I think you executed admirably in the closing pages and it’s this message I take away with me from the read, no better gift then that. Thank you.

Sorry to highlight those whole paragraphs from you, but I wanted to point out that I'm glad to see the story is getting people thinking on deeper levels than just shock and cuteness.  Hearing philosophies like that from you are the greatest compliments I think a story can get.  Again, thank you.

Forgiveness is an issue I've been dealing with, lately, not with just stories, but also in my real life.  I have two other stories just recently written that deal with forgiveness, though they steal need some work before I submit them to the boards.

I didn't do anything as horrid as taking anybody's life, but I've made decisions that I'm in no way proud of, and I never dealt with those decisions until just recently.  Now that I have, it's like breathing fresh air and now that all that's behind me, things have been working out great.

Except the girlfriend situation.  :-)  That's stilll crap.

As for the title '2911.21'... it's Ohio's penal code charge for criminal trespassing.  After I wrote this one, I had a very hard time trying to title it.  I thought about calling it 'Squat', but I already wrote a porn called that.  :-)  Finally, I decided to look up the charge code and decided to go with that.  I wasn't crazy about it at first, but I must admit, it's grown on me since.

Thank you again, Col, for the kind words and thoughts.

- Mark

I’m glad you could glean something from my ramblings.

With the risk of sounding glib it’s great that you’re fuelling your writing with the trials and tribulations of your own life, drawing from personal experience.  A sort of cathartic release through creating engaging stories with universal themes. Keep it up.  

I see this was posted 2011, but I read this short yesterday. Well done, save a few grammatical & formatting errors.

*possible spoilers*
I like that the ending is not what most would expect (revenge murder!)
Also, the part where things go from pretty normal to creepy, when we see Teddy has surveillance photos of the guy taped up on the wall. Wasn't expecting that. All sorts of crazy things ran through my mind. lol

Hey there,

This reads well and I like it for the most part. However, the story with Teddy's sister and how the cops get involved all of a sudden seems quite constructed. What a coincidence Teddy's being picked up by the cops at the same day he moves in with Jonathan, after squatting in a vacated house for quite a while. I'd say you'd have to make this a bit more believable.

I'm not sure the cops work well here at all. We know Johnathan is squatting himself, so the cops would probably ask unpleasant questions; or, as they don't, one would wonder what kind of pathetic cops they are if they don't even find out the house they are going to, belongs to the bank.

I don't think you need cops here. It's also obfuscating Teddy's transformation. He turned for the better, so he doesn't deserve to end up in a cell.

Just my thoughts.