Yeah, I know someone else commented that this felt a little too busy, with too many twists going on. But just the title of the script alludes to that, and I didn't think it overly so. Like you said, I think it would play out extremely well on screen.

Steve

Quoted from SAC Yeah, I know someone else commented that this felt a little too busy, with too many twists going on. But just the title of the script alludes to that, and I didn't think it overly so. Like you said, I think it would play out extremely well on screen.

Yeah, that has been the main criticism from others and as they say, if multiple people take issue with the same thing then it needs changing. I guess I'm just stubborn because I've always felt that an extra twist(s) were required on top of just paralleling both scenes which a lot of people think is enough.

That's too slight and simplistic in my opinion, hinging it purely on that somewhat gimmicky device. Its meant to be farcical and convoluted, like a mini whodunit chamber piece in which everybody is double crossing/betraying/working an angle, etc on someone else.

Anyway, thanks for the encouraging words

Regards

Col.

Hi Col,

I didn't read any of the comments so I apolgise if I rehash something.

I like the Oxford comma, and think one should go in your title. Not a big deal at all.

I'm not personally a fan of capping objects, mainly because of how it looks in the action blocks, and I feel it adds little value to the final produced film. I also find it tends to mess with the flow of the read a bit. I will generally do it only for sound effects and character introductions.

The script is absolutely litered with ellipses. I feel almost every one should be replaced with either a period or comma in the action blocks. I personally use them sparcely and when I do it's for one of their intended purposes; to show trailing thoughs or hesitation in dialogue. I'm not sure what their intended purpose is in your action blocks. It may very well be a stylistic choice you've decided on, but I think it would read much better if they were taken out.

I don't think SAME and CONTINUOUS are particullaly nessesary, if you gave us the mini slug and didn't put same, how would we know this is the case visually on screen anyway? The same goes for continuos. We automatically assume the scene after continues on from the other scene. I think it only becomes nessesary to explain what it happing with the time frame if it is something out of the ordinary or if it wont be abundantly clear in the writing. I don't believe that's the case here. The viewer wouldn't see the words same or continuos so it would make no difference. It will be filmed in the order you write it.

Just at the top of page two and we already have 8 named characters, I'm hoping it doesn't become too confusing. I find the more people I intro the harder I make it for myself to give them all an individual voice. Will see how we go though.

Personally I would turn the character CONT'D's off in your software. They aren't required.

Okay, just gone up to 9 characters and I'm still on page 2.

All your slugs thus far have been bolded, but the one at the top of page 3 isn't. Probably just missed it, but if it was by choice I'd definitely recommend staying consistant.

Another unbolded slug on page 3.

I would definitely recommend having a read on the usage of ellises in general and in screenplays.

Quoted Text Meg  picks  up  a  BEER  MAT,  picks  off  pieces,  all  very   casual.

I can't picture what youre going for here.

Quoted Text “healthy”

If you have a particular look in mind, I would describe that. What you, me, or the filmmaker thinks constitutes a healthy build may be completely different.

Quoted Text STEPHANIE   You’re  like  the  eighth  person  he’s   caught  with  that  this  week.  That’s   why  he  has  that  sort  of  cash  on   him...If  it’s  any  consolation.   BOB   Not  really...And  I  see  you  were   bustin’  your  ass  to  try  and  warn  us   an  all,  thanks.   STEPHANIE   He  gives  me  a  cut  to  keep  my  mouth   shut.

This section of dialogue is quite OTN. The same with Kathy's litte monologue.

I feel like this should have ended shortly after the intercut and, I felt like I got lost on the details after it.

The writing for the most part is really good, other than the things I already mentioned, but again a lot of it might be stylistic choices or personal preference type stuff.

The story was well told and built to a slightly unbelievable, yet still satisfying climax. Well done for that.

Then there is everything that happens after the intercut which I personally think can go as it doesn't add a whole lot to the story you've already told. Okay maybe the fact that it doesn't add something isn't quite right. I should probably say that it doesn't add anything that adds to the story in a positive or entertaining way. Others may disagree.

I'd be lying if I said I could distinguish some of the characters from the others but on screen this wouldn't be an issue.

It's definitely an enjoyable read.

Very well done.

Warren

Thanks for taking the time to check this out, much appreciated.

Quoted from Warren I didn't read any of the comments so I apolgise if I rehash something.

- I always read blind too, it’s the purest way so no problem if you repeat stuff.

Quoted from Warren I'm not personally a fan of capping objects, mainly because of how it looks in the action blocks, and I feel it adds little value to the final produced film. I also find it tends to mess with the flow of the read a bit. I will generally do it only for sound effects and character introductions.

- Yeah, it’s a style thing, I used to only capitalise character intros and sounds as well but when I seen it used in other scripts to emphasise key objects within a given frame, or things a character is interacting with it made sense so I adopted it to my own writing. If used right, I find it helps quicken the read, as you can get an idea of what is happening visually at a glance. I’m generally more concerned about the practicality of technique than the aesthetics of it. This applies to my use of ellipses, CONT’D and bolded slugline as well. I don’t expect it to add value to the final produced film, it’s solely got to do with the reading experience. I appreciate as well though that it won’t work for some.

Quoted from Warren The script is absolutely litered with ellipses. I feel almost every one should be replaced with either a period or comma in the action blocks. I personally use them sparcely and when I do it's for one of their intended purposes; to show trailing thoughs or hesitation in dialogue. I'm not sure what their intended purpose is in your action blocks. It may very well be a stylistic choice you've decided on, but I think it would read much better if they were taken out.

- I use them to illustrate phrasing in the dialogue, how a line is delivered, and to convey the flow of action in the prose. Also, in prose, I use them to separate actions without having to go to a new line. Again, it’s a style thing. I’ve seen it used a lot in scripts and liked it so started doing it myself. This is the approach I take to all rules. If they make sense to me, I use them, if not I don’t.

Quoted from Warren I don't think SAME and CONTINUOUS are particullaly nessesary, if you gave us the mini slug and didn't put same, how would we know this is the case visually on screen anyway? The same goes for continuos. We automatically assume the scene after continues on from the other scene. I think it only becomes nessesary to explain what it happing with the time frame if it is something out of the ordinary or if it wont be abundantly clear in the writing. I don't believe that's the case here. The viewer wouldn't see the words same or continuos so it would make no difference. It will be filmed in the order you write it.

- Yeah, this is another debateable point. Some people just have DAY or NIGHT, I want to be specific. Sure, it won’t matter onscreen but again, it’s for the reader, so they know exactly where they are. It’s more information so I don’t see the harm. I like to have timelines precisely worked out and clearly defined.

Quoted from Warren Just at the top of page two and we already have 8 named characters, I'm hoping it doesn't become too confusing. I find the more people I intro the harder I make it for myself to give them all an individual voice. Will see how we go though.

- That’s a legitimate concern but hopefully you would’ve learned why I had so many characters. Richie needs a few punters to make the bet worthwhile while Derek needs to have three woman on the go to mirror the trick shot. Also, on screen I don’t think it would be a problem.

Quoted from Warren Personally I would turn the character CONT'D's off in your software. They aren't required.

- I’ve always used them and don’t see the problem . Whether it’s a scene with two characters or many they are a quick indicator that someone has continued talking. I miss them in other scripts when they’re not used but I understand they have become passé. I’m waiting for them to become fashionable again

Quoted from Warren   All your slugs thus far have been bolded, but the one at the top of page 3 isn't. Probably just missed it, but if it was by choice I'd definitely recommend staying consistant.   Another unbolded slug on page 3.

- Good catch, nice one. Yep, consistency is important, I just missed those.

Quoted from Warren   I can't picture what youre going for here.

- It's like when someone busies their hands in an absent minded or casual way, such as twiddling your thumbs or picking your nails. Here, Meg uses a beer mat. She is doing it to give the impression she’s calm and collected while telling Derek how she’s caught him playing around. I liked that contrasting juxtaposition of a relaxed demeanour with biting words. Of course, her ripping up of the beer mat, even though its done casually, can be seen as foreshadowing what's in store of Derek.

Quoted from Warren   If you have a particular look in mind, I would describe that. What you, me, or the filmmaker thinks constitutes a healthy build may be completely different.

- True, I could be more specific here. Where I’m from it would be shorthand for plump or well fed. The inverted commas were to suggest its euphemistic connotations. I’ll add something for clarity.

Quoted from Warren   This section of dialogue is quite OTN. The same with Kathy's litte monologue.

- I don’t agree with the quoted part but each to their own. In regards Kathy’s monologue, it was intentionally flowery and righteous. I imagined she has been thinking about it for a while, working out exactly what’s she’s going to say and relishes it when given the chance.

Quoted from Warren   I feel like this should have ended shortly after the intercut and, I felt like I got lost on the details after it.

- Yeah, some others have said this and my original version did just that but I felt it needed more to connect the parallel stories together. If I end right after the intercut it all feels a little gimmicky. Just a smart ass idea of matching the trick shot with the cheating Derek.

Post intercut, I wanted an over the top, almost farcical layering of double-crossings and deceptions to give it more dimension and humour. Derek cheats on the women, Richie cheats the group out of money, the bartender took money to keep quiet, so did Bob and Richie is carrying on with Kathy behind it all. It’s completely ridiculous and over the top but in keeping with the tone of the piece I think.

Quoted from Warren   The story was well told and built to a slightly unbelievable, yet still satisfying climax. Well done for that.

- Yeah, it’s all very contrived and reliant on coincidence, that was the point. Not to be taken too seriously.

Again, thanks for the read, glad you got a couple of kicks out of it anyway. Few things to look at during the rewrite too. Cheers.

Col.

Good Morning

I really want this comment to be helpful, I fear it won't be. I'll just write down my thoughts and feelings I had when I read through it - Take from it what you will  

I had to read the opening description of the trick shot set up a few times before I got it - I don't know how or if it can be clearer - Could have just been me being tired and not getting it.

A lot of characters kept making me go back to check who they were and what they had been doing - Don't think it's too much of an issue - it trips up the read somewhat, but this is a script, after all, seeing the characters wouldn't be nearly as confusing as reading them. But the count could easily be cut down without losing anything

The pool table scene seems to get too much screen time, the same back and forth of "will I/Won't I bet" - I beleive it could be cut down without losing anything - It would also naturally shorten if you cut some of the superfluous characters.

Your dialogue is very authentic - You probably know that already, just wanted to pay a compliment on it lol

I love the match cut imagery of the pool balls and the drama in the next room - I did wonder why you capped the colour of their clothes, to tell is it is important. Cleverly done

Quoted Text Derek turns around. Meg and Shelley step aside. Kathy brandishes a balled fist, a large WEDDING RING evident. The red and blue balls separate...allowing the black to drop down into the path of the incoming white ball..

The above seems out of order, personally, I would have shown the 2 balls separating first, then show the two characters moving - probably because the order before this was - we see the white ball moving, then we see Kathy moving.

The way I pictured it in my head was seeing Kathy's fist flying towards him - cut to the white ball smashing into the black - So not seeing the actual punch. I know if it was written this way, people would tell me I'm trying to direct the shot - that's the way I saw it anyway.

Like I say - very good and very clever - I particularly liked the cheers as the trick shot worked, which echoes the feeling of cheer the audience would feel seeing Derek get what he deserves

It kinda falls a bit after this - I didn't like the Kathy speech telling me about the bribe. Personally, I would have used flashbacks to show these things. Again, some people don't like flashbacks - but would be better visually I think - especially if it follows the flow of the �20

flashback to Bob bribing Kathy for �20 - cut to the �20 being placed on the pool table - cut to Ritchie taking the �20 winnings and handing it to Kathy as they pass - something like that.

This would tell us, the audience, about the deception and bribe - but I don't think Derek needs to know about it - It kinda vindicated him a little bit "this guy is a jerk, but, he has just been betrayed by his brother so I feel a bit for him in that regard" - There could be a way to hint it to him, so it ends with the brothers arguing about what this "deal" was - I dunno, spitballing lol

I like the twist that Kathy is also unfaithful - could have been clearer I thought, but again, could just be me being tired and not getting it straight away.

That's all I have - sorry if it's not helpful. I also haven't read the other comments so apologies if any of this has already come up and you have responded to it.

All the best

Matt

Mathew

Thanks for taking the time to check this out.

Quoted from Matthew Taylor I really want this comment to be helpful, I fear it won't be. I'll just write down my thoughts and feelings I had when I read through it - Take from it what you will

That’s all good and all I can ask for in a review.

Quoted from Matthew Taylor I had to read the opening description of the trick shot set up a few times before I got it - I don't know how or if it can be clearer - Could have just been me being tired and not getting it.

Yeah, there is quite a bit of visual description to get across. I tried to do it as succinctly and clearly as possible.

Quoted from Matthew Taylor A lot of characters kept making me go back to check who they were and what they had been doing - Don't think it's too much of an issue - it trips up the read somewhat, but this is a script, after all, seeing the characters wouldn't be nearly as confusing as reading them. But the count could easily be cut down without losing anything

The number of characters has been an issue for some people but yes I agree that it wouldn’t be as much of a problem on screen. The reason for having so many around the pool table was to increase the stakes. The possibility that Richie can get one over on a few people rather than just one stooge. It's more amusing too. You don’t really have to remember each one, they are purely functional in order to accumulate the wager.

Quoted from Matthew Taylor The pool table scene seems to get too much screen time, the same back and forth of "will I/Won't I bet" - I beleive it could be cut down without losing anything - It would also naturally shorten if you cut some of the superfluous characters.

Perhaps. I wanted to include some back and forth there to increase the drama. I could easily pair it down to a simpler conversation but where is the fun in that? I feel the most enjoyment is derived from seeing how the bet comes to pass, at least for me it was when writing it. Maybe I’m being too indulgent.

Quoted from Matthew Taylor Your dialogue is very authentic - You probably know that already, just wanted to pay a compliment on it lol I love the match cut imagery of the pool balls and the drama in the next room - I did wonder why you capped the colour of their clothes, to tell is it is important. Cleverly done

Thanks

Quoted from Matthew Taylor The above seems out of order, personally, I would have shown the 2 balls separating first, then show the two characters moving - probably because the order before this was - we see the white ball moving, then we see Kathy moving. The way I pictured it in my head was seeing Kathy's fist flying towards him - cut to the white ball smashing into the black - So not seeing the actual punch. I know if it was written this way, people would tell me I'm trying to direct the shot - that's the way I saw it anyway.

Yeah, either way will work I think. Its effectiveness would depend a lot on the editing here. I mean, it could alternate multiple times within this very moment.

Quoted from Matthew Taylor It kinda falls a bit after this - I didn't like the Kathy speech telling me about the bribe. Personally, I would have used flashbacks to show these things. Again, some people don't like flashbacks - but would be better visually I think - especially if it follows the flow of the �20

Yeah, the coda has been an issue for some people. Kathy’s speech is a bit long winded and I don’t have a problem with flashbacks but I wanted to remain present in the scene. I think it has more impact on screen to see Bob/Derek’s reactions to her revelations.

Quoted from Matthew Taylor flashback to Bob bribing Kathy for �20 - cut to the �20 being placed on the pool table - cut to Ritchie taking the �20 winnings and handing it to Kathy as they pass - something like that.

I do like this visual matching though. Nice idea. Thanks.

Quoted from Matthew Taylor This would tell us, the audience, about the deception and bribe - but I don't think Derek needs to know about it - It kinda vindicated him a little bit "this guy is a jerk, but, he has just been betrayed by his brother so I feel a bit for him in that regard" - There could be a way to hint it to him, so it ends with the brothers arguing about what this "deal" was - I dunno, spitballing lol

Some people have suggested I finish it after the trick shot/punch moment, that the correlation between them is enough. That could work but I liked the idea of mounting one double-cross/betrayal after another so it enters an almost farcical realm. This pub is just a cesspool of deceit, sleaze and petty avarice.

Quoted from Matthew Taylor I like the twist that Kathy is also unfaithful - could have been clearer I thought, but again, could just be me being tired and not getting it straight away.

Yeah, I enjoyed including that little tag at the end too for the reasons just stated.

Quoted from Matthew Taylor That's all I have - sorry if it's not helpful. I also haven't read the other comments so apologies if any of this has already come up and you have responded to it.

No worries, you gave me some good suggestions, cheers. I wouldn’t fret about repeating what others have said because, firstly, I’d never expect you to trawl through other comments, secondly, I prefer someone to read a script totally blindsided and thirdly, if you repeat something others have said (positive or negative) then it’s a note worth paying attention to.

Let me know if you want to do another exchange.

Thanks again

Col.

Quoted Text Some people have suggested I finish it after the trick shot/punch moment, that the correlation between them is enough. That could work but I liked the idea of mounting one double-cross/betrayal after another so it enters an almost farcical realm. This pub is just a cesspool of deceit, sleaze and petty avarice.

Nah - I liked the interwoven deceit and lies - without it then it's just two separate stories linked only by visuals - I think the point I was trying to make was I would have liked it to have been more visual rather than the info coming from a monologue.

Quoted Text Let me know if you want to do another exchange.

More than happy for another exchange - I think all of the scripts I have up on here are now out of date lol. I'll drop you a message when I got some new versions up  

Quoted from Matthew Taylor Nah - I liked the interwoven deceit and lies - without it then it's just two separate stories linked only by visuals - I think the point I was trying to make was I would have liked it to have been more visual rather than the info coming from a monologue.

Yeah, a flashback is definitely something that could be inserted there to make it more cinematic.

Quoted from Matthew Taylor More than happy for another exchange - I think all of the scripts I have up on here are now out of date lol. I'll drop you a message when I got some new versions up

Cool. Let me know.

Hi Col

I've finally got some new versions of stuff on here - let me know if your up for another exchange.

Matt

Quoted from Matthew Taylor I've finally got some new versions of stuff on here - let me know if your up for another exchange.

Yep, I just sent you a private message.