Marble Town by Alex Sarris (alex_212) - Short - A fun game of turns out to be more than Billy Carder bargained for. - pdf, format

Hey Alex,

Sorry if I come off as rude with this one, but I think it needs a lot of work.  The writing seems a bit stiff, both action and dialogue, and there's a lack of punctuation throughout, mostly the absence of commas.

For the writing, I'd say go back and make it as visual as possible.  Right now it's stilted and isn't very fun to read.  Instead of just saying that the men "get each other" with the laser, describe the way that the laser gets them; add atmosphere.  I want the SOUNDS of them running and hiding, the lone streaks of red laser sweeping their perimeter.

As for the story, well, there's not much to it.  I saw the twist coming a mile away, the very second that Billy met Anthony.  Maybe try to go a different route?  I also find it a little weird that these college kids are playing such a game.

Sorry if I came off as rude before, but this wasn't my favorite of your work (and I do believe you have talent).

Gage

Thanks Gage,

Thanks for the read, I may have been a bit STIFF when I wrote this, Maybe I should have downed a few CIDERS beforehand to relax me. Hee Hee.

I have done a couple of rewrites on this one and will need to look over the wording once again.

If I was in a cold cemetery at night not sure how I would talk. I may be a bit stiff, pardon the pun.

I will have another look at what I do with Anthony.

Thanks for reading

Alex

Read this on a whim... Just came off of writing a few scenes tonight and wanted to read something short and to the point.   So, here I am...

The premise, while pretty decent, isn't working for me at its current state... Why?  Well, because these are grown ass men, playing tag-you're it, in the middle of a cemetery at night -- Regardless of the money angle, it's still a wacky ass thing to suspend over my head.  And probably 90% of anyone out there with some time under their belts.

But moving on:

It's just not written tight enough.  I could end it there, and probably should because I'm pressed for time -- But I'm going to elaborate a bit on what I'm talking about.  See, the thing I'm seeing more and more is people's dialogue being overloaded with filler words, clutter and no substance or diversity.  There is a difference between drab filler and colorful filler.  Drab makes everything diluted.  Color filler makes everything come alive and seem like each person has their own voice.

But the bleed over onto page 2 is pretty painful if you sit and think about what you've wrote as a moving frame with actors saying these lines and acting out this scenario.  Why?  Well, it's too stiff.  It's also a bit cold and too punched in.  Curtis simply nodding to someone saying that their parents are dead, regardless of just meeting him, is a bit unrealistic.  Even if he didn't want to be his friend, he'd still have something to say other than "I KNOW."

So I'm gonna re-work a bit of the 1st page for ya and you can take it or leave it...

CURTIS
Hey, you're in my Structures class.

Billy lifts his head, eyeballs Curtis.

BILLY
What?

CURTIS
My structures class, you're in it.

BILLY
Maybe...

CURTIS
Name's Curtis.

He extends his hand, Billy reaches up and returns the gesture.

BILLY
Billy, Billy Carder.

CURTIS
Yeah, thought so... So how you makin' out with all of it?

BILLY
Struggling.  Between school and work I'm tapped.

A devious smirk cuts across Curtis' face.

CURTIS
So quit your job, focus on school.

BILLY
Can't afford to.

CURTIS
Sponge off your parents for while, that's what I do -- And it ain't like the money you make's real anyway.  It's all printed.

BILLY
I live with my granny... My parents, they -- They're dead.  They died.

Curtis trails off, his stare deep and focused.  

CURTIS
Bummer, dude... Sorry to hear that.  Accident or some shit?

BILLY
It was awhile ago.  I'm starting to--

CURTIS
--There is one thing you could do, might make you a little extra scratch if you're up for it.


What this does is give personality to Curtis and Billy...  We can establish that for one, Billy is probably a decent guy with a stormy past and we can establish that Curtis, regardless if you wanted him to be or not, is now more of an opportunistic prick.  The way he brushes off Billy's news and goes into his plan shows us he

A) Might really want Billy to come along and be friends with him and have a shot at winning some money.

or

B)  He could just be trying to get him to go along so there's more money in the pot for him to potentially win.

But even still, the potential is here - but with these people being so damn old I just ain't buying "NIGHT GAMES".  I'd maybe bump them down to high school.

I also was a bit puzzled by how new the Ghost was.  He basically just died... I think there should be more to it here.  Maybe, and this is just me, maybe have a group of Ghost playing the same game and these kids come in and play it on "THEIR" turf.  There is potential with this story here, but some things will need to be altered.

Anyways, g'luck with it.

Hey Alex,

SPOILERS

Had a read but wasn't able to take notes, so here are a few after thoughts;

1) the set up needs some work. At the moment he goes for the money but it's not really a good reason. Also, why include facts that down really add eg parent are dead. It doen't seem to play any part. Surely he could just be trapped for money if you play that line.

2) the game. There is a lot of set up and rules which for a short could be tightened. Why have a group in the cemetory, rather than one on one! I like the idea of a game of hunt, in the dark, but this is described as hide and seek, something my five year old girl plays. Why not have a single hunter rather them as a group, with bigger stakes.

3) Ghost, can't remember his name. What's his role? Purpose etc? He pops up, helps out a bit, disappears. So what. I feel you need more meaning, connection and bigger reason for the twist. Eg the boy doesn't want to take part because he brother was shot dead by a hunter and the memory lives on but he's desperate for the money. If you beat the hunter you win big bucks, but there is a time limit, like running man. During this the boy talks about his fears to a grave, muttering to himself so to speak, and following that a dead solider appears as the ghost. Respects the boys courage despite fear etc in short many options but needs a tighter pull.

A bit like Balt has shown above the boy needs more character for us to feel the tension, the motives etc

All the best

Hey Alex

Good read, nice and easy.

I have to disagree with RD on some things. I think this is a good opening, it's only a short and you establish an issue from the past, death of parents (which adds more fear when he finds out he's visiting a cemetery), and a current problem he needs money which is good reason. Any reason is better than no reason.

Horror genre usually has rules, and you combine that with game aspect and give us the primary rules upfront and throughout.

There's a clear desire line, which works in that you can focus on the action. Of course with every decision it's give and take

All the players are potential allies or opponents.

Now, I figured that only thing you could do or what I would do if I opened like this is make whoever Billy partners was a ghost, which you ended up doing.

This is a straight forward piece, for only 12 pages, I like you're writing. The story is OK, it's simple.

BLB

Thanks all for your comments.

BLB until your post I was starting to doubt myself, you seem to be thinking along the same wavelength as me.
I felt that the money for a student was enough incentive and that the death of Anthony's parents added to the feel.

I tried to keep it simple and straight forward, that way a producer can take it on and put his own thoughts into the overall script.

AJ and Baltis thanks for your comments, I will take them into account in a rewrite and see what needs changing.

Thanks for reading.

Alex

Other than the fact I couldn't buy into adult men playing hide and seek....I thought this was a cute, fast read. I think you should rethink your characters age...maybe make them teens playing laser tag or something. Hardly anyone plays hide and seek anymore...do they? That game was so scary to me!

Hey Alex- If people feel that it would be strange for grownups to play a laser game in the cemetary than have the characters get drunk first. Everything seems to be fun when your drunk. Just saying. I liked the story. Good job-

Thanks PY and DV44.

I dont think it would be exactly a game of hide and seek as it would be totally different since there is a cemetery involved. To be honest if I had to play this I would probably S H I T myself.

I do agree with dropping the ages of the participants and making them younger, maybe 1st year at university at around 18yo. They still need to drive a car.

Thanks for the read and glad you enjoyed it.

Alex

Hey Alex,

Quoted from Alex_212 I was starting to doubt myself

What you doubting, buddy?

I read this before posting so you know my thoughts about this little tale and it seems some readers agreed.

These guys playing hide and seek... well I also brought that up but nothing a name change couldn't solve if you keep the ages the same.

The dialogue does feel very forced, especially that opening scene which felt so unnatural.

And of the course the twist which was so obvious you might as well called Anthony "Casper" and be done with it.  

All in all though, it's a massive improvement in the writing department although like I said over the e-mail, you really need to calm down on the parentheticals.

Good work.

Steve

P.S Congrats with "Serial Killer" I watched the trailer the other day and it gave me a smile. Excellent work my friend.

Thanks Steve,

I will be doing an edit on this shortly, taking into account all the comments.

I have also just signed away a second "Serial Killer" so I will be looking forward to 2 versions though I feel they will both be excellent.

Thanks for the read and previous comments on this one.

Alex

Hey Alex, I'm trying to read some stuff from people I've seen active, so here's my thoughts on this...

I'm a bit confused by the conversation between Curtis and Billy.  Billy says his parents are dead and Curtis says he knows, Billy is surprised then Curtis talks about the Night Games?  It's like a piece of dialogue is missing.  Then Billy virtually invites himself to play but Curtis accepts this without question?  Also it's a pretty long conversation, perhaps you could break it up with a few little actions?  It's not the only one either, page 4 is almost entirely dialogue.

page 7, Billy has two dialogues in a row without action or Anthony's dialogue between.

You include some things in parentheticals that should be in action.

I've just read over a few previous posts and agree that it seems odd that 20+ year old students play hide and seek, even for money.  I think it would feel better if they were much younger.  I also think Billy saying his parents are dead was forced to play on why Billy can maybe see a ghost.

I think this is a decent enough premise but needs to be tightened.  Some things are too forced and feel unnatural.  I think the page length is a little long for the story too.

Hi guys,

I have just done a rewrite on this one as well as a bundle of changes in order to make it less predictable.

I thought I would add a twist within the twist just to catch you all by surprise.

Please let me know what you think.

Regards Alex

Hey Alex,

Just gave this one another read.
Before I start off, I have a weird little remark... upon reading the PDF, the letter C looks weird to me, like a different font.  Maybe the PDF just screwed it up, I dunno.

Onto the read:

I noticed that you lowered the characters' ages just a bit.  I still think you could make them lower; it just doesn't seem natural for nearly grown men to be playing this kind of game.  You said earlier you chose high ages because they needed to drive, but just make the cemetary walking distance (and lower the winnings a bit) and it could work.  Just my two cents.

On page 5, you have moonlight "reflecting off gravestones".  I think moonlight "illuminating the gravestones" may be better, seeing as gravestones aren't very reflective.

Page 8, you split Billy's dialogue, but there's no action in-between.

As for the twist within a twist at the end... eh, there's a major plot hole there.  Why didn't Billy recognize his own dad?  I mean, I'm assuming that Anthony looks the same in the afterlife, and he even tells Billy his name is Anthony...

Overall, it's gotten better, but the ending still needs work.  I didn't see the twist coming this time, but that's because it doesn't make much sense.  Keep working, Alex!

Gage

Thanks Gage

Some good comments here.

I will look at the split dialouge and good suggestion for the illuminating of the gravestones.

I guess Billy never met his dad as he died before Billy was born, over and above that, Anthony is 18yo the same age as Billy, so chances are, he may have never seen a photo of Anthony when he was young or around that age ??

There are probably many people out there who have never seen their dad or even a photo of them.

Thanks for reading.

Alex

Hey Alex,

Took another look and I admire you for thinking up new ideas/solutions for trying to make your twist work but to me it still isn’t there yet.

There is tons of white space on the page which is a good thing and if anybody remembers your first script and how over-written that was, it’s even more impressive.

But like before, the story just doesn’t work for me and like Gage quite rightly said, there are now a few plot holes which need patching.

Also spotted a typo on page 11 “where” should be “were” and flashlight is one word. And your page numbers still seem to be centered? Check your software.

These are a few questions/things that jumped out at me.

1.     “dad died before I was born” please clarify this line… change it to something like “dad died when I was one/young/baby”  All this reminded me of was a funny scene from “Only Fools and Horses” where Trigger is asked the question “what about your dad?” and his response was “Oh, he died a couple of years before I was born” Funny but not what you were going for here. Always good to be clear.

2.     Now with his mother only just recently dying, it would make sense that he’s visited his dad’s grave at some point to show his respects with her. Hence, wouldn’t he feel strange about playing a game in a cemetery where his father is buried? There are never any fears of this from Billy.

3.     I don’t know if I asked this question before but it was something I was curious about in the first reading. What is with the shadow that Billy moves out of the way from? I mean for starters, do shadows run? And why does Billy move if it’s a shadow? I’m guessing it’s important but it never comes into play.

4.     The ghost of Anthony/dad is 18 yet he’s 35 when he died? What does this mean? Why is he 18 and not 35? Seems odd to me, normally ghosts I’ve seen in movies are the age in which they died…obviously I haven’t seen very ghost movie so it could of happened somewhere.

5.     That ending is so comedic to me, this is what it reminded me of: Replace Khan with Dad.



So still a bit of work to be done for me I’m afraid but keep going…your commitment to improve is here for everyone to see so good on you.

Good luck and keep writing.

Steve

Hey Alex- Noticed you changed the characters ages. That's good, more believable that young adults would play the game and not guys in their mid twenties. I agree with Coop in that the ghost of Anthony would be the age he died, 35, not 18. All in all you made some changes for the better. I did like the twist at the end.

Hey Alex

Not read the other comments so forgive any repeats.

Noticed Billy has two dialogues in a row on page 8.

When Billy says 'times nearly up' perhaps a quick glance at his watch?

typo on page 11, 'where' should be 'were'.

Not sure about the 'dad' ending.  I think this causes a few issues, like why is Anthony 18 when he would have been much older when he died?

No problems with the read, it was quick and easy.  I know you're aiming for a shock/surprise ending but I think you leave a lot of questions with the one you plumped for.  People will ask why his dad turned up and said nothing to him?  Did Anthony know he was Billy's dad?  Why was Anthony 18? and so on.

I think this is a good improvement on the previous draft; younger ages of the guys is much better for starters.  Still could do with a little tweaking but better, and good to see you took on board some of the feedback from your reviews.

Thanks Guys for your comments,

I will work through tham and make a few changes.

I just felt if Anthony was the age when he passed then there may have been more chance that Billy would have recognised him, this way he is none the wiser. Do ghosts all retain the age when they die ???? After all the ghost is really only the spirit of the person !!!! Not sure?

Steve, good point whether Anthony knew who Billy was?? Not sure at the stage if I should add a few remarks by Anthony that may give a hint of this just to make the audience aware that Anthony knew ???????

Quoted from CoopBazinga dad died before I was born please clarify this line change it to something like dad died when I was one/young/baby

Maybe i should expand the dialouge in relation to Anthony dying before Billy was born, thanks mate.

Quoted from alffy and good to see you took on board some of the feedback from your reviews.

Thanks alffy, thats what SS is about. If I didnt want your feedback I would not be here. I know there are a few people on SS who post screenplays then rip into those that comment, IMO they are hypocrites. Why have a resource like SS and not take advantage of all the expertise.

Also IMO the screenplays on SS are a joint effort between the writers and the posters. Well done guys.

Regards Alex

Here are some minor notes I took along the new read Alex:

Names Curtis  --Should be name's

Billy turns his head and looks into the darkness across the road.
BILLY What’s across the road?
CURTIS A cemetery

Right here...you should show him SEE the cemetery instead of looking across the road and then rehashing it again in dialogue. I'm a big fan of less dialogue is better ….especially in a short.

Deep in thought, Billy nervously bites his nails

Right here...you don't need deep in tought and nervously bites his nails. All you have to say is Billy bites his nails. We all know that biting nails is a sign of nervousness. I'm guilty of using too many words that often say the same thing...so this is one of those sentences that can be trimmed and still show everything you wanted to show.

Lets head that way. Should be “let's”

Now as far as the twist at the end...I was confused why it'd be his Dad. I think it was fine with him just being a ghost. That was a big enough twist for me. If you go the angle Dad thing, you need to state something early on that's more understandable ...cuz he doesn't recognize his Dad and that seemed weird. I dunno...I think the twist before was good enough.

Some of your dialogue you may have to work on a tad...read it out loud to someone else and make sure it sounds like it would the way people speak.

I love the little story. It's cute. It would be super low budget to film(I think).

Thanks PY,

I am between a rock and a hard place with respect to Anthony being his dad. Previous posts stated that the ghost part was predictable so I thought it may not have been enough.

Maybe I'll rethink it.

It will be a low budget film and I think it will be effective, I had a producer keen though the changed their mind and decided to do a 4-5 page script instead. Easy come easy go. Hee Hee

Thanks for the read.

Alex

Hey Alex,

I stand by what I originally said in my email to you about this one... I like it. Personally, I see nothing unrealistic about a couple of teenagers playing a version of 'Hide-and-Seek' for a little extra money. It's certainly something I wouldn't hesitate to do for a little extra cash.

As for your writing, some huge improvements since the first script of yours I read. I still think some of your dialogue needs work, especially that opening scene with Curtis and Billy. For me, it's just a tad un-natural. Dialogue is a tricky thing and we all have problems from time-to-time.

The new twist you've added definitely adds a little more to the story. I just think that maybe Billy may have recognized the cemetry that his father was buried in before going in. Maybe his parents didn't get along, so he never knew where his dad was buried or something along those lines. A little more back-story could improve that hole in the plot.

Otherwise, some great work. Seeing some very promising stuff from you. Good to see you taking on board the feedback you have been receiving. I feel like I can review any script of yours, knowing it wont go to waste.

Let me know if you need anything else...

Daniel

Read it... Much better.  Your writting has come up a smidge -- but your still missing a chance to bring your characters to life by adding more personality.  Smart charcters speak from the hip... Not the fingertip.

Pm me... I wanna give you a few tips you have to pay an arm and leg for when it comes to dialouge, scene structure and word usage -- You'll thank me on your next script if you follow the advice.

Thanks Dan,

When you get bombarded with different opinions it is always hard to decide what path you take, I am going to do a full read and see what I change with the screenplay.

Definetely the dialouge needs work as this is currently my weakest area.

The story line I believe is good though it does leave a few unanswered questions at the end. Should these questions be answered or remain buried? Parden the pun. Not sure !!!!

How would he recognise his dad !!! Especially since he never met him and all the photos may have been around the time his dad died and not at Billy's age.
If Anthony  was 39 and playing the game then it would be strange, so he does have to be Billy's age.

Thanks Dan for the read and advice, your the Man !!!!!

Regards Alex

Quoted from Alex_212 How would he recognise his dad !!! Especially since he never met him and all the photos may have been around the time his dad died and not at Billy's age. If Anthony  was 39 and playing the game then it would be strange, so he does have to be Billy's age.

Fair enough. I can see why he didn't recognise his dad, but what about his burial spot? Has he never visited it before? I don't know, it just seems to me that he'd recognise the place that he's in, unless of course, his mother never took him there... At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. I'm just being a little too picky to be honest.

Still a solid effort, mate

Thanks Dan

I did think of this though maybe Billy never went to the cemetery with his mum ???

You are right it probably doesn't matter and has no impact on the story.

I will follow my avatar and keep banging my head.

Regards Alex

Quoted from Alex_212 I will follow my avatar and keep banging my head. Regards Alex

Try not to damage that creative brain

I will PM you some very useful stuff you're not gonna find in a book for sale or on a website -- But I wanted to establish a few things here first.  What I'm going to address for you here will help you understand what I'm going to tell you later though...

The entire 1st scene isn't playing out to your advantage... In turn, the readers advantage.  I'm not telling you this will never be made into a short -- It very well could tomorrow, should the right person stumble upon it.

What I'm trying to do is help you down the road, and you'll understand that.

1.  Your 1st scene is trash... Don't even bother.

Something I want you to do.  Go back and read that 1st scene for me... Page one to page 3.  Do it.

Finished yet.........?  Now delete it.  What you must be asking.  Why?  Right?  Here's why.  Because it's worthless to your story as it is.   Not only that, it can be said much more subtly throughout the story...

You have to remember, Alex, this is a "SHORT" -- We have very little time to get things established on off the ground.

I'm going to do a quick run through of what you should do -- It's not gonna be buttoned up and beautiful, but it'll give you an idea/option.  I'm not going to describe these characters for you, that's your job -- But it needs to be done.

---
EXT. CURTIS' HOUSE - NIGHT
A sedan spits and sputters into the driveway.  BILLY CARDER, 18, steps out and approaches a small group.

CURTIS,19, stands in the drive, a fistful of laser pens in his hand and a clipboard in the other -- STEVE, 16, and ROGER,18, loom behind him.

CURTIS
(to billy)
Didn't think you'd show -- Billy, this is Steve and this slop dong here's Roger.

Billy offers his hand to the two.  Steve returns the gesture, Roger nods.

ROGER
Sup, dude?

STEVE
You nervous yet?  You look a little nervous.

BILLY
Sort of, I guess.  Hey, who do I give this to?

He pulls a twenty from his jacket pocket.

CURTIS
That'd be me.

He takes the money and gives Billy one of the laser pens.

BILLY
Should I be nervous?

ROGER
Only if you're a puss like Steve here.  See, game's across the street and little stevie doesn't like it over there.

Billy turns his head, squints into the darkness.

BILLY
What's across the street?

CURTIS
Splinters Mound...

BILLY
What's Splinters Mound?

STEVE
A cemetery... A scary ass one, too.

BILLY
shit, are we allowed over there at night?

CURTIS
We do this all the time, man.  It'll be cool

Billy contemplates and chews on his nail with a nervous tinge.
---

With this, you are now free to pepper the rest of your script with "SUBTLE" and I mean "SUBTLE" back story... This, again, is a short -- Don't overdue it.  We are in, we are set... we will know the rules as it goes.  Do not over explain and make sure you get us out as fast as you got us in.

If I were to write this story, I'd have it done in 8 pages flat... Maybe even seven.

Anyways, I'll give you a PM in a bit.  But remember, this is a story... Story's unfold onto you -- They do not unload onto you.

ok, it's a funny one. The writing style's really easy to get into, makes for pleasant reading. And the premise is sound, a nice little short thriller stylee without overcooking the complications...

...but (lol) ... yeah, I can see why previous posters have been puzzled. I'd describe it as a lack of flavour - there's a good idea, and you've worked hard to get the plot structure right but sacrificed a little bit of bite in the unique details. At the moment, character motivations are an issue (eg "go in there we'll start in ten" ... "ok" ) but it's more the way they speak than what they say - I guess what Baltis was saying. We need to believe them as people... quick examples - Curtis might always talk over Billy, force of personality stuff (so there' d be lots of Billy's objections being unterrupted and talked over the top of) or he might be a wheedler who gets Billy to go along just to shut him up. Dunno - I'm worse than anyone at this sort of stuff... hope you know what I mean.

I don't think it'll a problem at all to the final piece because it definitely has a unity of purpose right through, so if I was going to suggest anything it'd be to go back over each scene and describe/have characters say the same stuff, but in a snappier way.

edit - just read the above post (was looking at baltis ' original) and yes, I'd agree. It could do with condensing into the essentials.. but this will force you to speed up explaining character and plot, which will really sharpen them up naturally..

Thanks Baltis and Marriott,

Baltis, what can I say but wow, I am now looking at the entire screenplay differently.

I have always been great at stories and have an amazing imagination. It is my writing that really lets me down. I am learning heaps from you guys and with all this great advice being hammered into me, I have gone far in a matter of a few months.
If only we teamed up and used my ideas and your writing abilities we can create a blockbuster. (and I'm not kidding)

Going away from Night Games here. Sorry.

I have read a few screenwriting books and let me say most where crap. People writing books on how to screenwrite, seem like people who preach because they can't do. The real knowledge comes from the guys on the front lines like you. I bow my head to you. No brown nosing intended.

I am finding shorts a whole different kettle of fish compared to my features, the ones I struggle to finish that is.
I want to get credits so when my feature is complete, I have a name even though my feature may be released under an alias, for safety reasons. "silence of the lambs stuff" but more psychological and more unique.
One day I will get there.

I will do a rewrite of Night Games, and make it shorter and sharper as per your comment.

Thanks for your help, much, much, much appreciated.

Alex from downunder.

lol - i think everyone hates their own writing.

personally, i think your writing is a great strength - it's clear, it communicates your 'vision' effectively into my head (I think at least!), it's got pace and rhythm.

...and even though yeah some of the dialogue feels like "filler" in places I think of those lines like imperfect building blocks, you need to put something there for the time being to hold the wall up, but later you go back and see the bricks that don't quite fit, and change them for better shaped bricks. The wall itself is sound.

(most of my stuff starts 100% filler, and gets edited into what i hope is distinctive) ...

Quoted from Alex_212 Thanks Baltis and Marriott, Baltis, what can I say but wow, I am now looking at the entire screenplay differently. I have always been great at stories and have an amazing imagination. It is my writing that really lets me down. I am learning heaps from you guys and with all this great advice being hammered into me, I have gone far in a matter of a few months. If only we teamed up and used my ideas and your writing abilities we can create a blockbuster. (and I'm not kidding) Going away from Night Games here. Sorry. I have read a few screenwriting books and let me say most where crap. People writing books on how to screenwrite, seem like people who preach because they can't do. The real knowledge comes from the guys on the front lines like you. I bow my head to you. No brown nosing intended. I am finding shorts a whole different kettle of fish compared to my features, the ones I struggle to finish that is. I want to get credits so when my feature is complete, I have a name even though my feature may be released under an alias, for safety reasons. "silence of the lambs stuff" but more psychological and more unique. One day I will get there. I will do a rewrite of Night Games, and make it shorter and sharper as per your comment. Thanks for your help, much, much, much appreciated. Alex from downunder.

Don't walk away from it -- Fix it.  Never put too much on your plate or juggle more balls than your hands can hold.  I'm piecing together some info for you, some notes you can actually use, that have certainly done me a world of good -- And, no, they're not in store bought books.  The most important information comes from Analyst and Consultant... You're paying them good money to learn what they know and, believe me, I've learned plenty over the years.

As I said, don't walk away from this one.  There is room here and it has massive potential for a good hook and a nice, small, tale -- Something you'd see on a Tales From The Crypt or  Twilight Zone.  

HEY BALTIS

When i said going away from Night Games here I meant I was blabbering on, off the topic, not that I was going to drop it. Sorry for not explaining myself better.

Thanks for all your advise and I look forward to your PM with the information you mentioned.

Regards Alex

Quoted from Baltis. I'm piecing together some info for you, some notes you can actually use, that have certainly done me a world of good -- And, no, they're not in store bought books.  The most important information comes from Analyst and Consultant... You're paying them good money to learn what they know and, believe me, I've learned plenty over the years.

Not to derail Alec's thread, but I'd be interested in hearing this "important information" you speak of.   Maybe you could post it publicly or even on a separate thread?

Thanks M.Alexander

It is Baltis's information and what he sends to me will remain with me, I would not forward anything on, unless Baltis wanted others to have it.

If he doesnt, then you may be putting him on the spot after all it is his own stuff.

Regards Alex

PS On top of all that you have not even read Night Games or posted here regarding Night Games so it would be hard to take in what they are referring to above ????

Quoted from Alex_212 Thanks M.Alexander It is Baltis's information and what he sends to me will remain with me, I would not forward anything on, unless Baltis wanted others to have it. If he doesnt, then you may be putting him on the spot after all it is his own stuff. Regards Alex PS On top of all that you have not even read Night Games or posted here regarding Night Games so it would be hard to take in what they are referring to above ????

Actually I was directing my question to Baltis.   I'm definitely putting him on the spot.   And I hate to say it, because you're a nice guy and a very active member, but I did read Night games and didn't care for it.  I opted to keep my comments to myself because I didn't want to discourage you.   Looks like that cat's out of the bag.  Sorry.

EDIT:

Ok, let me rephrase.  First time I read it I only got a few pages into it.  I was turned off by what I perceived to be grammatical and format errors.   Not to mention the title page.  Lose the revision count.  No need for it lest you're an industry pro.  

Also, first time I read it the "C" in Curtis' name was offset.   Looked weird.  Reeked of ametuer writing.  Apparently it's been fixed since the last time I looked at this script.  

1st page; Maths class.  Shouldn't it be math class or iss that an Aussie thing?

Also, some of the writing seems clunky to me, but I think that might just be a cultural thing.   For example, you write:

EXT. UNIVERSITY GROUNDS - DAY

Students sit on the grass and bench seats.

BILLY CARDER (18 ) sorts through his bag. He forces a cheese sandwich into his mouth.

CURTIS SANDS (19) sits nearby and watches Billy closely.

Personally I'd just write it like this:

EXT.  COLLEGE CAMPUS - DAY

An assortment of STUDENTS linger about.

BILLY CARDER, 18, sits on the grass eating a sandwich.

CURTIS SANDS, 19,  sits nearby watching him.

I wrote that on the fly, but I think you get my point.  It's a matter of personal preference.  On a positive note, I like the ending.  It did provoke an emotional response.   Good job for that.

Hopefully Baltis will give you better feedback than I can.   Good luck and best wishes.

Quoted from M.Alexander Actually I was directing my question to Baltis.   I'm definitely putting him on the spot.   And I hate to say it, because you're a nice guy and a very active member, but I did read Night games and didn't care for it.  I opted to keep my comments to myself because I didn't want to discourage you.   Looks like that cat's out of the bag.  Sorry.

That's an easy one to walk away from... I don't have to disclose anything I've paid for over the years with anyone in public forum.  I've had extensive coverage, contact and services from two of the top, most well respected consultants/analyst working on a rotating basis over the last 4 years.

Take this to PM and leave this guys thread be if you've nothing to contribute.  I'm sure  Don and Bert would both agree...

Quoted from Baltis. That's an easy one to walk away from... I don't have to disclose anything I've paid for over the years with anyone in public forum.  I've had extensive coverage, contact and services from two of the top, most well respected consultants/analyst working on a rotating basis over the last 4 years. Take this to PM and leave this guys thread be if you've nothing to contribute.  I'm sure  Don and Bert would both agree...

Did I say you have to disclose anything?  It was a simple question.

As for the rest of your response -- pffft.

Hey Alex,

SPOILERS!  

First time reader. Wow. Liked this. This reminded me of an episode in Are you afraid of the dark?. The good old days. lol.

suggestions:

Change Anthony's age on the gravestone. Doesn't correlate well when he appears to Billy.

Explain the rules of the game like how do they know someone's going to play fairly.

Anthony should scare the shit out Mark when Mark threatens to beat up Billy.

Other than that, it was a great read. Has a lot of potential.

Gabe

Alex,

Here's a few other examples of what I consider clunky writing and format errors.

Quoted from Night Games, pg 4 CURTIS There’s more to it. CURTIS (CONT’D) The mausoleum is a safe house, you can’t die there or within fifty metres.

Fix it.

Quoted from Night Games, pg 1 A devious smirk cuts across Curtis’s face.

Curtis smirks deviously.   Much more simple.  Or better yet, just remove it, IMO.

Quoted from Night Games, pg 3 EXT. CURTIS’S HOUSE - FRONT - NIGHT Billy parks his backfiring sedan and steps out

EXT.  CURTIS'S HOUSE - NIGHT

Billy parks his car and steps out.

Better to keep it simple, IMO.

Quoted from Night Games, pg 3 Billy nervously bites his nails.

Looks clunky.  Doesn't even need to be there, IMO.    

Quoted from Night Games, pg 6 The shape of a moonlit building in the distance.

Re-think that line.  

Quoted from Night Games, pg 8 As they walk out through the doorway, a dark shadow Moves through the doorway into the mausoleum. Billy steps to one side.

Fix "Moves".   Shouldn't have typos like that after 3 revisions.

Quoted from Night Games, pg 10, 11 They crawl parallel to Peter and eventually line up along the same isle. Anthony crawls in the isle parallel to Billy.

Aisle.

Hope this helps.

Thanks M.Alexander and Mr Ripley.

Wow this thread has taken of with many posts today. Its ashame i was away from my computer working.

Mr Ripley thanks for the read and glad you enjoyed it, I really need to  do a rewrite and sharpen it up in areas. Glad you liked the ending though i am considering whether I drop the Dad angle ??? ATM I fell like i should keep it as it opens a can of worms.

M Alexander, thanks for your comments and I will be sure to take them into account when i do a rewrite, as previously mentioned i am good at storyline though I suck on the technical side, though learning quickly from SS members.

Thanks for the read and hope you come back for the re-read when i update it.

Alex

Quoted from Alex_212 Thanks for the read and hope you come back for the re-read when i update it.

You're welcome.   I'll definitely be back for the reread.  

And you're gonna hate me for saying this but you might wanna consider a new title.  

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081228/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097971/

Thanks M.Alexander,

Is M.Alexander what you would like to be refered to or is it Mark or something else ????

Even though the name has been used, I still think "Night Games" is appropriate as it does describe the screenplay effectively.

There are not many names that have not been used in the past.

If it was a feature I may think differently though.

Thanks Alex

Hi All,

Just 2 let you know I have just completed a rewrite and have stripped the screenplay from 12 pages down to 8 pages so hopefully it should be an easy read.

Please let me know your thoughts.

I have also had comments to change the name from Night Games and are considering a change and calling it "Marble City" please let me know what you think.

Regards Alex

Alex,

You asked for another read. I am away at the moment so the notes I can take are a touch random.

Quite a few characters for the first para - if we are to follow one make his description more powerful.

Steve - I think all that line needed was, "Nervous?" nothing more, would have performed the same task
P2 extra comma after a full stop
Steve - re Ross. Now this line could be a joke or serious. Maybe one to clarify ie with chuckle. A wry smile etc
Like the name Mable town
One option as they go into the cemetery would be to use a mini slug;

As a another car pulls up the three boys cross the street into--

THE CEMETERY

--etc etc

Slightly more dynamic and connected

P3 instead of "A petrified Billy etc, since you have already described him in the line above, why not just start with "Petrified, he etc etc

P4 again as the scene is continuous better use a mini slug, like above for entering--

THE MAUSOLEUM

Anthony - could do with more reason to buddy up. I would also say at this point you took a lot of the rules away, since there was too much of that before, but to a new reader you may take taken too much.

Much prefer the ending, powerful twist etc however, it would work better if we knew he didn't have a dad, or the suggestion he looks after himself. To suddenly find your dads grave, just like that, could do with some foreshadowing.

All the best.

Thanks RD,

Some good points here, especially more info about his dad, this was in the first scene that I removed so may need to add some extra dialogue for it. Tks.

I did take the rules away and though the viewer will catch on as the film proceeds, I only kept the part RE the mausoleum as I felt it needed to be said.

Glad you liked the proposed name.

Alex

Alex, I prefer the title Marble Town.

The beginning is much better, the original always seemed a bit awkward.  This makes it a bit more of a mystery, although the dad ending is little out of the blue now.  I think before you had Billy saying his parents were dead?  I prefer this draft but maybe Anthony needs a bit more to him.  Maybe have him banter with Billy, now too long but just some personal questions that maybe Billy finds uncomfortable.  Then when he finds out Anthony is his dad, his interest would be clear.  Dunno, just a thought.

Getting better with every draft, Alex.  Nice work.

Thanks Anthony

I was thinking the same, I have added a couple of dialouge lines to cover Billy's past so it is clear that his dad has passed.

Glad you like the name as I feel it gives it a bit more mystery as well, the name alone makes me feel like I want to read it to see what Marble Town is.

I have also updated the title page to read Marble Town though the thread title remains unchanged FTM.

Thanks for the read.

Alex

Hey Alex,

As requested, gave this another read. I'm glad you got rid of that opening which felt so forced. My only problem with your opening now is that it literally reads word for word on what Baltis had in his feedback for you...no drama's I guess. I would have liked to see you take that valuable advice and put your own spin on it, this reads like a copy and paste job which somebody else wrote at the moment. Sorry but it does. And the line about his dad was on the nose for me, I know you had to get this in somehow but it comes out of the blue and hints at the ending.

The dialogue although better also feels somewhat different at times, it felt American but then an odd word like "arse" or "tenner" would throw me in the direction of British. Maybe I'm over thinking things again.

It's good that you've cut some of the fat and made it shorter, it works better for it but on the whole not a lot happens and there never is really any tension in Billy's situation. He's scared and petrified but why? Is it the cemetery? Being hit with a laser? Also because some of the opening is missed we can't identify why he's doing this anymore, before it was money but now it's a mystery...he states to Anthony that all he wants to do is go home so you have to ask why he went in the first place?

Why does he have to be a wuss, can't he just be a competitive sod who wants to win this game and that's why he wants to team-up.

And the ending still doesn't work for me I'm afraid, for starters I still don't believe that you can immediately think it's your dad because I'm sure there are lots of Anthony Carder's out there but maybe I'm being picky on that one so I'll let it slide. Why wouldn't Billy know where his father is buried? Marble Town is a pretty unique name for a cemetery...I'd remember it. Why is the grave open if someone has been buried there since 1995? In fact why is it empty altogether? I think Billy and the crew should be worried if its empty because that means there is a zombie Anthony out there.

And the yelling, well I didn't like because it comes off comedic to me. It's supposed to be emotional so keep it that way. I'll throw something out, see what you think. Instead of saying anything, have Billy look at the grave but don't show us it yet, he drops to his knees staring at the grave, confused. Curtis picks up the flashlight and points it at the gravestone afterwards revealing the name and that's your final image right there...for me that would work a lot better. The reader should get it by the name hopefully...sometimes it's better to leave the audience to figure it out.

The writing is pretty solid although I think you use names too much in your action and the wrylies, well you know my thoughts on them.

Also watch out for repetitive word use in the same sentence, I only saw it once but it jumped out at me for some reason.

And check out your software, this dropbox looks really weird. Paragraphs sometimes look aligned wrong and the spacing of words change constantly...maybe this on my end as it's the work computer so not the best?

It's better but still has some issues which need to be resolved but this only my opinion.

Hope this helps buddy.

Hey Alex,

I gave this another read, as you requested.

The writing is solid. Your time on SS has paid off, when it comes to cleaning up that writing. I couldn't fault it, there.

Unfortunately, I don't think the changes you made at the start of the script really work that well yet, but they can with maybe one added line. I think it's a more confusing draft, mainly because you never explain what the teens are actually doing in the cemetery. It's all left for us to assume that they're playing a game of hide-and-seek. Having read this script a few times, I know what's going on, but the chances of a new reader picking this up and understanding what exactly is going on are quite slim. From what I remember, in the original draft, you had Curtis explain what the game is about, but we don't get that here. We also don't get an explanation of what they're playing for (e.g. the money). Maybe an added line, where Curtis reiterates the rules before Billy enters the cemetery?? Hope that made sense. Let me know if it didn't.

while reading this draft, I was able to pick up on something else, that has always been there but has only just started to not make sense. Here is an excerpt from page 6...

"Billy high fives Anthony then they take cover.

An angry Mark walks towards Billy, clenches his fist and makes a punching motion at Billy."

- I've always assumed that Anthony is a ghost that only Billy could see. So, surely when Billy high fives Anthony, Mark would only see a weirdo high fiving mid-air?

Don't get me wrong, Alex. The writing is good. I just think the story hasn't come together, just yet.

Cheers. Keep working at it

Dan

Hey Alex,

Read this as asked. This is tighter.

However, I think your focus in keeping this a 9 page short is hurting your story. This could be at least 20 pages. Break the confines and develop the story.  Give us more info about Billy and his family and then get us in the cemetery. I think it will give the ending a stronger impact.

Some stuff I noticed:

When Billy meets Anthony, wouldn't Billy try to laser him? They're in the game.

Also, like Coop, wouldn't Billy know the cemetery and it's significance?  

Also, i think the characters should be teenagers 13-17. Anything above is pushing it. It's like, would a college student be doing this? Maybe a frat initiation?

Hope this helps,
Gabe

Hey Alex - Just read the new version. Why did you change the name to Marble City? I liked the title Night Games. One thing, you obviously want to have a twist at the end with Anthony being discovered that he's the ghost dad of Billy. It still doesn't work for me because I agree with Coop in that I would think that Billy would have known that his dad was buried there. Also I would think that Billy would recogonize his dad even though he was 18. Maybe through old pictures his mother had or maybe Billy looks like his dad. If you're looking for a twist maybe consider Billy having to meet Curtis at Marble City, waiting for him. Teenagers approach Billy asking if he's here for the game. Billy plays a simple game of hide and seek or something else. Towards the end of the game maybe Curtis shows up and Billy says your too late I already won the game and Curtis could say that the game hasn't started yet. That's maybe when Billy looks closer to the tombstones and realizes he was playing with ghosts. Just a thought. Either way I enjoy your short stories. Best of luck- Dirk

I read this and I liked it, for the most part. It has a wholesome quality or ambiance to it--like American Graffiti. However, the ending was too trivial.

Warning-Spoiler--Warning Spoiler

Ghost dad helping his son win a few bucks lacks gravitas. It would have been better if he had helped his son accomplish something significant, meaningful--win the love of his life or pay off the mortgage on the family home, etc.

Best regards
rmaze

PS Night Games > Marble City

Hi all,

Just to let you know the thread has been updated and the name change from Night Games to Marble Town is now official. Thanks Don for updating the thread.

I feel the name does work better.

Alex