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Don
Posted: May 16th, 2013, 2:15pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Need by Curtis Rainey (ambitioniskey - Short, Drama - A young woman craves love, but as her story plays out from present to past, tragic events warp her view of what the word really means. 11 pages - pdf, format


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Revision History (3 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Don  -  May 11th, 2014, 1:23pm
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DustinBowcot
Posted: May 16th, 2013, 3:15pm Report to Moderator
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Brought a tear to my eye. Thanks for sharing.
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Oney.Mendoza
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Hi Curtis,

I really liked this.  Crisp writing, interesting characters - I found the present to past a fascinating choice of narrative.  Not much to critique on but man, what a depressing read.

One thing – I thought this line sounded a bit funny:
KRIS
I thought her car was broke?

I did see Mark having an affair coming – I was thinking for an alternative that he could possibly die, making the love of her life vanish from her life that way, but then again – that’s not the direction you were going for with the other interwoven back-stories of Francine’s life.

Nice short, Curtis.


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stevemiles
Posted: May 17th, 2013, 4:34am Report to Moderator
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Curtis,

I like your writing style, very smooth and visual.  While I don’t think this is overwritten, I’d say there’s some room to trim without losing the core of the story (which if anything could make this a little easier to film).

Some of the ‘walking in on the affair’ on p.3 could be shortened. The dialogue here was a tad stock “...this isn’t what it looks like...”.  You might not even have to open the bedroom door. The scattered clothes, giggles behind a closed door etc. -- Francine’s reaction here could tell us all we need to know.

p.6 - I wouldn’t use RETURN TO SCENE here.  A mini-slug to show Mark’s location should do.  Maybe even stay in the playground and just have him intervene -- that would keep the scene flowing and save the move in location altogether.  Again, think about trimming the fight scene -- a simple punch from Mark could get the point across just as well.

A few lines that stood out:

p.4 - ‘Kris comes to a haul...’  &  p.6 - ‘ACROSS ON A THE STREET’

Not entirely sure what a ‘Hollywood wannabe’ would look like.  

p.8 ‘Lester walks in, looks over his shoulder, before he closes
the bedroom door as gently as he can.’ - Read awkwardly to me.

Not sure about the ending.  Feels like something of a disconnect between the set-up and pay-off with the sudden leap forward and assertion that it all just happened to work out. The last time we left Francine she was a damaged, drunken prostitute without any hope.

Francine’s playground reference to what she’d like to name her daughter goes some way towards this; but I’m left wondering how Abby came into the picture, how Francine died and who was the man, after all she went through, that finally gave her hope?

Hope this is of some help.  At ten pages I’ve no issue with the length, just think the story could be tightened here and there. Good luck with it.

Steve.


My short scripts can be found here on my new & improved budget website:


http://stevemiles80.wixsite.com/sjmilesscripts
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AmbitionIsKey
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@Dustin

Thanks, man,  glad to hear it.  I hope that wasn't sarcasm, it didn't seem like sarcasm.  You see, I'm Sheldon Cooper when it comes to stuff like this.  But I'm sure you meant it seriously, so I'm real happy about that.

@Oney

Hey, dude.  Thanks for the feedback.  Glad you liked the short.  Yeah, this was my first screenplay (short) where I've written not in chronological order.  I thought it'd be an interesting way to lay the story out.  I thought the ending offered a little bit of hope, I didn't mean for it to be so depressing.  The message I wanted to present that no matter how bad life is, there is always hope.  

SPOILERS

And in this story, the hope Francine found was a child.

Yeah, Mark dying wasn't the way I wanted to go with this.  I thought it would be more tragic to have him sleep with Francine's best friend and her witness the love of her life, after all she's been through, throw it away.

Glad you enjoyed it overall, though. . I wrote this in thirty minutes last week.

@Steve

SPOILERS

Hey Steve, glad you liked the writing.

I agree that the affair thing could be shortened.  I actually love your idea of Francine hearing everyone beyond the door.  It could save time, but still have the same effect, if not be more emotional.  I shall really consider this when doing rewrites.

I see what you're saying about the ending, too.

I wanted to leave it up to the reader to decide how Francine died.  I also wanted to leave it up to the reader to decide who the man was.  I wanted people to get the impression that maybe it was Lester, or maybe Francince found love with another man.

Thanks for the read.

-- Curt

PS: Oh, and thanks to Gary (hawkeye) for putting me on the right path with the log-line.  Cheers!


"No matter what you do, your job is to tell your story..."

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spesh2k
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Hey Curt,

So, I had a few issues with the story as well as the writing.

Now, overall, it wasn't too bad. Depressing? Yes. Very. But I didn't feel that was much of a problem.

I liked how we kind of backtrack 7-8 years at a time, though it may be hard to convey the changes in years unless you include a SUPER each time we jump back. Between ages 18 and 30, appearance doesn't change too much, so it could be difficult to show the lapses in time without the SUPER.

My main problem was with the ending. After the final, heartbreaking flashback (when Francine is a little girl being molested), we are brought to what seems like the future when Francine is dead.

Now, her daughter Abbey -- was she a product of Lester? Or was she a product of Mark?

And the grave stone reads WIFE and MOTHER - though at age 25, I believe she's engaged to be married - she throws her ring on the floor after catching Mark with a girl, so we assume that relationship was over.

I guess I was a bit lost. How did Francine die exactly? Did she commit suicide?

We start the story in the present (her at a street corner tricking) and then we go back 3 times (7-8 years back each time) and then we cut to her grave. I felt like there was a LOT missing here.

I get that her sense of hope was her daughter, but the daughter comes so far out of left field, it feels really forced. Even with the necklace on her neck.

The ending kind of messed up the flow of the story. It felt so abrupt and forced. We are left, as an audience, to assume too much information. I'm not saying to beat us over the head with the story in a super obvious way, but provide us with some info. Maybe even have a visual of Francine with Lester lying in some cheap motel bed (after all the flashbacks in time) and have both of them dead (maybe the scotch was poisoned, I don't know, just spitballing). Then cut to the cemetery.

And also, if her daughter was a sense of hope (I can't help but assume Francine killed herself) then why would she be dead (or why would she kill herself if she had a daughter).

And the father at the end (Abby's father) - he's obscured here, we don't know who the father is. A reason behind that? Sorry, I was just thrown off by the ending and confused.

Now, onto the writing. I noticed that you CAPITALIZE a lot of things that shouldn't be. I guess you can capitalize some things to draw emphasis, but they were just random objects or actions that don't really have any significance to the overall story (I can see capitalizing the necklace at the beginning, but everything else I'm not so sure).

Also, you have way too many one-sentence paragraphs. I'm not sure why they're separated the way they are. Unless one sentence takes us to a whole another visual (or camera shot) or action, then the sentences should be together in a two to three sentence paragraph.

And if there is a beat in the action, then just use a period or a comma. You don't need to take us to another paragraph. Here's a few random notes, a few of them will show some examples of what I'm talking about.

Page 1: No need for the LATER mini slug. Intro her as she walks into the streetlight, sipping scotch, her eyes puffy from crying. Suddenly, that half of the page becomes a paragraph or two without changing a thing.

Lester's description is over written. I'm not against prose in description, but it sounds like you're trying to be too clever with the prose (which should play second fiddle to the actual story). And the prose in his description about the chins comes off as comedic, when your story is anything but. I know it's only description, but it affects the tone when reading it.

You could have just written:

The window rolls down.

LESTER (50) peeks his head out. Not exactly well put together to say the least.

Or something like that. The fact that he's picking up Francine and paying for sex all ready tells us enough.

Page 2 (top):

FRANCINE: After a few of these, we won't care. Everything will be numb.

It reads awkward. Maybe just "drink this" would say the same thing. We get that she's depressed - she's been crying and she's roaming the streets with a scotch bottle. Though with that "numb" comment, she's speaking about herself, it's not needed.

EXT. BRIDAL SHOP

Once again, no need to separate each sentence into a paragraph. And no need to CAP her name again. She's all ready been introduced. Just mention five years earlier somehow (maybe in a SUPER).

Here's what you have:

EXT. BRIDAL SHOP - DAY

FRANCINE (now 25) - exits a grimy bridal shop.

She looks much better here. Younger. Happy.

She walks down the street with a bouncy stride.

Nothing can ruin her day.


Far too much white space. There doesn't seem to be a purpose to separating these sentences into their own paragraphs. Here's how I would write it:

EXT. BRIDAL SHOP

Francine (25) exits with a smile on her face. Younger. Happier. A bounce to her step.

It's not necessary to say "nothing can ruin her day". We see she's happier. And it's just as heartbreaking when she goes from happier to catching her fiance cheating on her.

Also, no need to mention BRIDAL SHOP when it's mentioned in the SLUG. As for the "grimy" description, I'm not sure how one would picture that.

More of the same here:

INT. HOUSE - HALLWAY - CONTINUOUS

Francine enters the house.

She slips off her jacket.

She looks into a nearby mirror which hangs on a wall.

With a quick shake of the head, Francine fixes her hair.

Then, in the B.G, her eyes spot something on the stairs --

A pair of jeans...


There's really no purpose to separating these into separate paragraphs. As I've mentioned, if there's a beat in the action, a period or comma will suffice. And the action of focus doesn't seem to change enough to take us to a new paragraph.

And you don't need to tell write "She enters the house" if we all ready know we're in a house through the SLUG - INT. HOUSE - HALLWAY - CONTINUOUS. Once again, it's redundant.

Here's what I would have written:

INT. HOUSE - HALLWAY - CONTINUOUS

Francine enters and slips off her jacket. She glimpses into a nearby mirror and fixes her hair with a quick shake of the head.

But she stiffens, something catching her eye through the mirror. She turns and spots something on the stairs - a pair of jeans.

I'm not quite sure why you CAPITALIZE the word BLANKETS or THE DOOR OPENS. You draw enough emphasis on it just by writing it. Now, if the DOOR CREAKS OPEN or makes a noise, then you can CAPITALIZE it (it's kind of a rule to CAP all noises not human, eg. objects).

And then you CAP verbs like SHOVES and PULLS. I don't see the significance here.

Page 4: Not sure about the Hollywood wannabe line of description. It's not general enough to paint a clear picture IMO.

Page 5: Why cap GRABS?

Page 6: Why cap KNEES and PUNCHES?

Page 8: Again, the one sentence paragraphs.

KITCHEN

Where she pours herself some more Scotch.

Francine watches, decides its best she leaves.

So, she hops off the sofa and exits the living room.

As she walks away, her arms sway back and forth.

They’re riddled with bruises...


No sense in keeping these separated. And when Francine leaves the couch, she is in the act of deciding to leave. So there's no need to tell us "Francine watches, decides it's best she leaves" - and then you take us to a new paragraph which is only a continuation of her action.

KITCHEN

She refills her glass with Scotch.

Francine watches and grows uncomfortable. She hops off the sofa and leaves. Black and blue bruises marking her arms.

See, when the action changes or we are focusing on something else THEN move onto the next paragraph.

INT. FRANCINE’S PARENTS HOUSE - FRANCINE’S ROOM - CONTINUOUS

Francine’s room is tiny and less than basic.

Just a bed and a TV and a box filled with clothes.


No need to say "Francine's room". We know we're in there.

Tiny. Nearly empty. A bed, TV and a box filled overflowing with clothes.

Francine is asleep in bed when THE DOOR OPENS.

Lester walks in, looks over his shoulder, before he closes the bedroom door as gently as he can.

He takes off his coat, it falls to the floor.

He stumbles across to Francine’s bed. He takes a seat at the edge.


Francine lies sound asleep.

A sliver of light peeks in as the DOOR CREAKS OPEN - Lester sneaks in and quietly shuts the door behind him.

He removes his coat and drops it to the floor as he tiptoes to the bed. He plops down onto the edge, beside Francine.

Overall, it wasn't bad, though I felt the writing could improve and the story needed more answers to things. The ending feels so random and unearned.

Looking forward to checking out a re-write as I think the story is strong enough to merit a rewrite.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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AmbitionIsKey
Posted: May 17th, 2013, 8:55pm Report to Moderator
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Hey there, Michael.  I'm ONLY just after commenting on your most recent short, and you did on mine?!  It was fate, fate I 'tell 'ye!  Or maybe just my Irish luck or something or, yea... lol.

I'm glad you didn't mind the read was depressing.  I, too, don't mind it.  

I personally believe that between the ages of 18 and 30 appearance changes a lot.  People gain weight, they change their appearance themselves... I didn't want to "SUPER" all this information of jumping backwards.  I, personally, like it when a writer leaves it up to a reader to decide certain things.  You mentioned, I think, that I left to many things open.

Maybe I need to work on that.  Work on leaving things up to the reader to interpret too much, it's just something I do.

SPOILERS

Okay.  The ending.  This is the way I wrote the ending.  I wrote the ending, purposefully, to be ambiguous.  I wanted people to get two vibes.

The 1st) Francine found love again with someone new.  She had a daughter.  Gave the daughter her dream name.  And eventually died.

The 2nd) Abby was the product of rape from Lester.  Lester was the "voice" off-screen.  And even though Francine found hope from Abby, she still could not bring herself to live in a world attached to Lester.

That was how I imagined it.  That is how I interpret it.  In one of those ways.  Maybe it was too silly or selfish of me to expect an audience to make those assumptions regarding the story.  I don't know.  I value your opinion, though.

I shall fix the CAPS thing.  I tend to CAPS things that I would want a camera to focus on, if this were to be shot.  There's no need for it.  So, I shall work on it.

Ah -- lines and paragraphs.  See, this is where style of writing comes into play.  For the short few years I've been interested in a career in screenwriting (I'm only 16) I have somehow developed this thing where I write in lines, rather than squish things into paragraphs of block writing.

I don't know.  The three users before you who commented didn't pass comment on the lines being out on there own.  I guess, it's just something I am so USED to doing.  I have been writing like that for ages, and it's something I can't shake.  I'm not sure though, whether it is incorrect formatting/layout in the world of screenwriting.  We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one, it's just the way I write.  If this gets more reads, and more people point it out, then maybe I'll have to rethink my whole style of lay-out/writing when it comes to writing screenplays.

I agree that some of what you pointed out can be shortened and there are some redundant lines that would be cut, so if I do rewrite this (which won't be anytime soon because of school exams and work and other stuff) I shall deffo consider everything you've pointed out in the review.

Hope I've replied to everything, and glad you didn't hate it.  Thanks for the review!

-- Curt


"No matter what you do, your job is to tell your story..."

Short scripts

GONE
(6 pages, drama/thriller)
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spesh2k
Posted: May 17th, 2013, 9:21pm Report to Moderator
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You're only 16! Wow, kudos to you, buddy, when I was 16, I was high on who knows what lying in a pile of my own filth while playing video games I was working on scripts here and there, but you're light years ahead of where I was at. Good for you, dude!

I'm not saying what you've written needs to be written the way I would do it, but I just feel the way a script is written and formatted (down to minor details such as the one's I have mentioned) need to have some kind of purpose.

I, myself, hate big chunks of action blocks, but one sentence paragraphs provide too much white space for personal taste. I get what you're saying with seeing things as a film, a series of shots (I like to write my action like that too, but differently obviously)... but yeah, agree to disagree I suppose.

I've been through so many phases as a writer over the years, especially with writing action. After writing for a few producers who wanted me to write more prose and be more descriptive, I sort of adapted that style for awhile... and then some other producers told me that I wrote too much prose and it makes for a longer read (which is a no-no when a busy producer/investor with a short attention span gets a hold of your script).

IMO there is a basic set of rules, but everything else is flexible depending on a writer's style or what is requested by a producer/director/investor. So, I'm not saying your way is completely wrong, but I do however respectfully disagree with it.

Thankfully, you're not a habitual over-writer (though some things are redundant and can be trimmed) which makes for an easy read.

Cheers buddy.

-- Michael


THE SUICIDE THEORY (Amazon Prime, 79% Rotten Tomatoes) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2517300/?ref_=nm_knf_i1
RAGE (Coming Feb. 2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8874764/?ref_=nm_knf_i2

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AmbitionIsKey
Posted: May 17th, 2013, 9:38pm Report to Moderator
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Yeah, you should have seen me at 13/14!  I was writing Scream and Friday the 13th fan-fiction on Microsoft Word, hadn't got the slightest clue about writing screenplays, lol.  

I understand what you're saying.  I agree that the way a script is written and formatted need to have purpose.  Hopefully I learned more as I read and grow.

I also hate big chunks of writing, too.  Maybe that is also where my line writing stems from?  I don't know, I personally don't see a big problem with the white and the way it's laid out, so I guess maybe it does come down to person opinion on that matter.

Ah, that must be hell!  I used to write screenplays filled with metaphors and, basically, like novels or something.  But yea, more basic now, haha!  I agree also that every bit of space on the page is valuable to a producer and there's no point wasting it with lots of prose.)

I respect that your respectfully disagree with it, at least we have a merry understanding!

I used to be a habitual over-writer, but then I found this site, and I've learned from it.

"Cheers to 'ye too 'lad" as we would say here

-- Curt


"No matter what you do, your job is to tell your story..."

Short scripts

GONE
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Quoted from AmbitionIsKey
Yeah, you should have seen me at 13/14!  I was writing Scream and Friday the 13th fan-fiction on Microsoft Word, hadn't got the slightest clue about writing screenplays, lol.  


That is so funny.  I was the same way.

I won the Halloween: 25 Years of Terror DVD in a fan-fic screenwriting contest. haha

I also read "A Perfect Day" a while back and remember liking it, despite some flaws.

I opened this yesterday and browsed through it just to check out how it looked writing wise.  Looked clean, but I think I totally glanced over your name as the author and maybe that's why I neglected to actually read it in the first place.

I'll have to look at this soon.  Going out to shoot some pool for now....


Later.
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stevemiles
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Curt,

a part of what worked for me with this story is your ability to draw us into Francine’s world and in doing so make us care about her, and her future.  In some respects, leaving the audience to decide kind of robs us of the moment Francine 'discovers' that hope and turns her life around.  Feel like I was left with questions in place of closure.  

Anyways, just to say, I hope it’s not Lester.  I really hope it’s not Lester...    

Steve.


My short scripts can be found here on my new & improved budget website:


http://stevemiles80.wixsite.com/sjmilesscripts
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AmbitionIsKey
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@Reaper

Wow.  Really?  As cheesy as it sounds I'd still be real proud of that!  My fan-fictions never won anything, lol.  But yea, I wrote a Scream 5 and then a sequel to that Scream 6 and then a Friday The 13th remake.  I never tackled Michael Myers, even though I've always wanted too.  I've always wanted to write a sequel to Resurrection making up for how crappy it was, lol.

Yea, APD had a few flaws, I appreciate the read, though.  Any feedback is good feedback, right?

Hope you enjoyed pool, and anticipate your thoughts.

@Steve

I'm glad you thought I was able to draw you into Francine's world.  I'm already thinking of a few, better, happier endings that are less obscure that I could go with.  

Personally, I don't think it's Lester too.  I believe she found her happiness, and died a happy woman.

-- Curt

EDIT: (Just whipped together a graphic for this, seeing as I had some spare time before studying.)



"No matter what you do, your job is to tell your story..."

Short scripts

GONE
(6 pages, drama/thriller)

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AmbitionIsKey  -  May 18th, 2013, 7:12am
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rc1107
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Hey Curt.

It's a really neat idea here. and another good drama with a powerful, albeit depraved, story you've come up with.  (Yes, I understand the irony that I'm bringing up the issue of depravity.)    ********SPOILERS********  It's sick that a molested young girl grows up to continue to bang her step-dad and fall in love with him and have his baby.  Yes, it's depraved, but still powerful and I'll even go a step further to say that this has probably happened in real life.  (INSERT WOODY ALLEN JOKE HERE.)

But, even though it's a very powerful story, it's not going to be able to be pulled off onscreen as it is, and it's because of the time jumps.

There's nothing wrong with going backwards.  In my script 'God's Empty Acre' which got filmed as 'Girl(s)', (the link's in my sig), I do the same thing.  I tell the story backwards.  I even used the baby's name as a cool device to play with the time jumps.  :-)  I loved that part by the way, Francine about to say A- and then her future daughter is named Abby.

In your screenplay, it'll work fine because we the reader can see the ages and do the math and everything'll add up nice and tidy.  (It even adds up that Lester is the father, even though you tried to disguise that at the end.)

But, on film, the audience won't have that same connection.  They'll get the idea that the story's going backwards, but they won't know that Francine is 30 in the first scene and 25 in the next and 18.  And those ages are important to know because of the date on her tombstone at the end.

Like I said, I'm of the opinion that the script reads fine, but when this gets filmed you will lose and confuse the audience and you'll lose a lot of the power of the story.  I'm not saying exactly to put Supers in there or anything, but something needs to be done to get those exact time jumps done ONSCREEN.

And I'm not speaking as someone who just disagrees with the story.  You know that's not the case because I said I liked it.  I'm speaking as someone who's gone through this EXACT thing with my backwards screenplay.

Now, in 'Girl(s)', everything comes together and the audience figures it out at the end.  But it is a bit confusing in the first couple scenes and from what I witnessed with the audience who saw it, they were confused and those first few scenes, which were powerful as hell, the power was lost because they were trying to figure out what was going on.

I'm just warning you with my own experience...  it looks great on paper, but it will get confusing onscreen and you will lose a lot of the power with the audience in the process.


I guess another issue I could bring up is leaving the story up to the reader to decide.  As you see, in my response to you, Lester ends up being the love of her life.  That's just how it is.  Lester IS the father and the love of her life.  That's how, with all the dates and everything, I came up with the ending.  If you didn't want me to have that idea, you should've ended it yourself, or put in another scene when she's 36 and with somebody else.

:-)  As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of when writers let the audience finish their story for them.

But I liked this one a lot, Curt, save the issues I brought up.  It's a powerful story, and hopefully you can come up with a way to get this onscreen without a lot of the emotion getting lost in the confusion.

- Mark


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AmbitionIsKey
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Hey Mark, thanks for checking this out man, really appreciate it.

Glad you found the story powerful.  I agree that because of the time jumps this would be very difficult to pull off on screen.  Though it'd be nice to have this filmed, this was not the intention.  I wrote this, like, within an hour and took a few minutes to clean it up just last week.

Yes, this was my first attempt at playing something backwards (even though that's scene is a huge jump forward), I just thought revering the order would turn it into something different, and I enjoyed the way I did it.  And glad you picked up on the Abby thing, as if it was really that hard to decipher anyways, haha.

What about if, in a revised draft, every time we visit Francine it's one of her birthdays?  And I have a character mention her age, or maybe, for example when she's 10 I have her drawing a picture of a birthday cake with 10 candles on it, or something.  Just in every scene I do something physical, whether it be in the actions or the dialogue, so that the audience KNOW what age Francine is?  Do you think that'd be a good idea?

Yea, for some reason I like leaving the reader to deciding.  You think Lester was the father, and Francine found love with him.  But, I also wanted people to interpret the ending, that she found love with another man, had a baby, and died.  I understand entirely though that I can't just assume a audience will come to one of those assumptions and I already have a new idea on how to end this, with a much more solid ending.

Overall, I am real real happy you liked the story.  And I appreciate so much your feedback, regarding the filming thing.  I love how, at one point you stated, "...but when this gets filmed..." -- wow Mark, you have so much faith in me, haha. I was reading your comment thinking, "Wow, Mark thinks this is going to get filmed, he keeps mentioning it, he must have enjoyed it."

But, joking (or seriousness? Lol) aside, thanks so much!  My next short, "When It Was Bliss", which I am half-way done with, I'm taking much more time.  It has three people, it's a drama, and it plays out much more simpler and less confusing.

-- Curt


"No matter what you do, your job is to tell your story..."

Short scripts

GONE
(6 pages, drama/thriller)

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AmbitionIsKey  -  May 19th, 2013, 9:19am
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DustinBowcot
Posted: May 19th, 2013, 9:40am Report to Moderator
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Nope I wasn't being sarcastic.
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