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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Scripts  ›  A Stand Against Evil Moderators: bert
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  Author    A Stand Against Evil  (currently 3484 views)
Don
Posted: July 25th, 2013, 5:46pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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A Stand Against Evil by Dan Ball - Short, Sci Fi, Fantasy - A Zoroastrian hot dog vendor must defend his business and his customers from evil. 9 pages - pdf, format


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Forgive
Posted: July 25th, 2013, 6:23pm Report to Moderator
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Can't get the link to work - divine intervention for getting cars 'n' gods confused?
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DanBall
Posted: July 25th, 2013, 9:05pm Report to Moderator
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Sorry, I'm not quite sure what's going on with my hosting service.

Try this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6468bge8yvs291y/astandagainstevil_draft4.pdf


"I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams. This wasted land. But most of all, I remember The Road Warrior. The man we called 'Max'."

THE PINBALL WARRIOR (scifi, WIP, ~30 pg.)
A STAND AGAINST EVIL (short, 9 pg.)
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MarkRenshaw
Posted: July 26th, 2013, 4:49am Report to Moderator
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That second link works for me.

I’m writing these notes as I’m reading the script.

The opening reads like the intro to a joke. You know like, “A Rabi and Nun enter a bar” type joke? You introduce 11 people in three lines!  Will be interesting to see if all these will play a part in the story.

This ‘The Zoroastrian way.’ – I like the idea of it, I’ve come across similar principles in some spirituality stuff I’m into at the moment but in no way does Jaffrey seem to be following these principles in any of his actions or words.

Ahh here comes a demon lol – I’m warming up to this!

Wow! You know what, I really liked that! It was quirky, funny, spiritual and had a good message. I’d say don’t introduce all the characters at once, just say something generic like “Several customers are lined up waiting to be served” and then introduce the Nuns etc only at the point where they become relevant to the story.

I’d also suggest having something to show Jaffrey is trying to make a difference earlier with his hot dog stand. Having a narrator say it is not enough, and is a bit of a short cut really. With his actions and his words we need to understand what he’s doing or if he’s given up, why?

I didn’t understand some of the religious elements of the story but I understood enough. It may have helped me to understand the demons role more and what he could and couldn’t do. For example he asks for a deal to take the customers souls and then says later he could take them if he wanted. Was he lying? If not why didn’t he just take them? It would have been nice to have something in to help the audience understand the rules more.

I also didn’t understand the customers reaction or lack of to Ahriman and his actions. It seemed at first they couldn’t see him or were ignoring him. Then when he killed the nuns the rest reacted in terror briefly but didn’t run, then calmly carried on ordering their hotdogs.

For the test to truly work, the customers should never really been aware of Ahriman at all or the danger they were in.  Once they know he’s there and for them to pass they need to act ‘good’ it seems to defeat the purpose of the test. I’d suggest having Ahriman visible (in his true form anyway) only to Jaffrey and their conversations hidden to the other customers also.

Ahriman could curse the nuns and tells Jaffrey they will die agonising deaths soon. You could then either show this in a kind of a flash forward or not even show it at all and have Jaffrey know it to be true. This raises the tension, there’s very real danger and none of the customers are aware of it. If Jaffrey is to save them not only can he not tell them anything but he can’t demonstrate to them the danger they are in either.  

Just some ideas but yeah, I really liked that, shows a lot of potential.


For more of my scripts, stories, produced movies and the ocassional blog, check out my new website. CLICK
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SAC
Posted: July 26th, 2013, 5:10am Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


… but some dreams do

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Dan,
I liked this one alot.  Clear and concise.  I read it twice as I suspected the different type, races or religions of Jaffrey's customers might yield some meaning.  Damned if I can figure that out.  Still a bit early.  Perhaps it's just you showing us that people of all races can come together when evil is at hand...something like that.

Jaffrey's character was well done.  Enjoyed his speech pattern, and making him Indian, and the defacto leader here, goes a ways to back up what I sdaid earlier about people of different races uniting.

Really, I think this story is a good twist on some other "The Devil and ..." type stories.  I wrote one myself years and years ago.  

Ahriman, aside from his appearance, seemed pretty normal and matter of fact in his speech.  Sort of like the devil could really be anyone.

Intersting how you chose the nuns to be the first to go.

A bit of foreshadowing with the candle going out.

And interesting how it was the deaf mime who set Jaffrey's victory in motion with sign language.  Sort of a take on action instead of words.  

Your descriptions and action were clear enough.  Did you really need the narrator?  I feel that minus this the script wouldv'e been more ambiguous, thus giving the reader something more to think about in terms of the story, and Jaffrey's arc.  That was pretty much the only thing I had an issue with.

I did not notice anything wrong technically.  Maybe I missed something, but was too into the story, I guess.

Otherwise, a good read.  And a clever take on the "Devil and..." type story.  

Regards,
Steve


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DanBall
Posted: July 27th, 2013, 9:57am Report to Moderator
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Hey, Mark and Steve. Thanks a lot for your responses. I'm busy at a family reunion this weekend, but I'm thinking a lot about the customers' reactions (Mark) and the narration (Steve).

Also, Don, my web host went out of business so the link I gave you is no longer hosted. But I also attached the PDF to my submission form just in case something like this happened, so if you still have that, you have the PDF.


"I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams. This wasted land. But most of all, I remember The Road Warrior. The man we called 'Max'."

THE PINBALL WARRIOR (scifi, WIP, ~30 pg.)
A STAND AGAINST EVIL (short, 9 pg.)
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AmbitionIsKey
Posted: July 27th, 2013, 9:46pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Dan, I read this yesterday and was quite busy so I didn't manage to get my thoughts written down.  But it's 3:40am here, there's no nice food anywhere in this house, so I thought I'd get to it.

I really liked this piece.  The writing was real crispy and flowing.  Pithy.  Made for a quick read for me yesterday and it was enjoyable.  It worked in the pages, and you did manage to fit in a lot in a few short pages, and it packed a punch.

Wasn't a fan of the narration, if felt unneeded...

I liked Jaffrey a lot.  I felt that many of the characters could have been cut to save introducing them in one block paragraph.

Anyways, this was SUCH an intriguing read with a nice message behind it.  A cool story.  I'm actually interested to find out what made you wanna write this, if there was something personal behind it?  It was real cool.

I don't know what other advice to add to fix this.  Length was perfect, great writing, cool story.  I'd just say rethink the narration, because it felt too unnatural.

Curt


"No matter what you do, your job is to tell your story..."

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AmbitionIsKey  -  July 28th, 2013, 8:45am
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dogglebe
Posted: July 28th, 2013, 8:41am Report to Moderator
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I wasn't fond of this script; I'm not even sure I understood it completely.  It just seemed to go on for way too long.  IMO, you could cut two or three pages off it.

Your intro:


Quoted Text
Two COPS (30s), two BUSINESSPEOPLE (30s and 40s), a JUNKIE (early 20s), two NUNS (50s and 60s), two RABBIS (both 60s), a MIME (early 30s), and a SUMO WRESTLER (mid 30s) with achinchilla...


isn't a good way to introduce characters.  It overloads the readers' heads with information.  You could save the descriptions and introduce them as they step up to the stand.

Hope this helps.


Phil
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Colkurtz8
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Daniel

It’s not often I’ve had to look up the meaning of a word in the logline

Technically, the writing is solid.

I’m liking the poetic depictions by the Narrator of the Zoroaster creed.

While I like the flat out randomness of it and not knowing much about the spiritual context explored (though a lot of it is common to most religious beliefs anyway) the oft silly humour isn’t really working for me. You got this highly bizarre situation with all these unique character but the dialogue feels rather stale, particularly Jaffrey.

Ahriman’s in your defence, does talk with a little more wit and flare.

The wager set-up between Jaffrey and Ahriman, while not being anything original, does have me curious to see what Jaffrey is going to do to win the bet.

A nice sleight of hand (pun intended, sorry) with Jaffrey using sign language to prompt the mime but the whole thing still left me scratching my head. And I don’t mean that in an entirely bad way either, I enjoyed the variety of cartonnish characters but overall it’s not really my kind of thing.

I struggle to see what age group you are aiming for too. Who’s your audience? The humour leans more to the slapstick and broad while the narrative explores ethics and faith...hell of a combination you got there! But are they compatible?

Col.


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DanBall
Posted: July 29th, 2013, 2:03pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from MarkRenshaw
Wow! You know what, I really liked that! It was quirky, funny, spiritual and had a good message. I’d say don’t introduce all the characters at once, just say something generic like “Several customers are lined up waiting to be served” and then introduce the Nuns etc only at the point where they become relevant to the story.


So you're saying it might be a better surprise if I kinda play my 'hand of characters' close to the chest? I think that's a pretty good idea.


Quoted Text
I’d also suggest having something to show Jaffrey is trying to make a difference earlier with his hot dog stand. Having a narrator say it is not enough, and is a bit of a short cut really. With his actions and his words we need to understand what he’s doing or if he’s given up, why?


The narrator was the quickest, most economical way I could think of to get the point across. Otherwise, I'd resort to more exposition and/or slow the story down explaining it. Maybe I could have Ahriman push Jaffrey more, asking him why he's not more excited to be serving people. Also, the narrator fit my idea of this being a modern day fairy tale or entry from "1001 Arabian Nights."


Quoted Text
I didn’t understand some of the religious elements of the story but I understood enough. It may have helped me to understand the demons role more and what he could and couldn’t do. For example he asks for a deal to take the customers souls and then says later he could take them if he wanted. Was he lying? If not why didn’t he just take them? It would have been nice to have something in to help the audience understand the rules more.


In Zoroastrian belief, good and evil is seen more along the lines of order and chaos. The forces of evil (one of which is Ahriman) are more about causing people to not do good things. Order is maintained by people doing good, but if they don't keep that up, then things devolve into chaos. So it's not like the demons encourage people to murder someone as opposed to helping an old woman cross the street...they just encourage people not to help her cross the street.

With Jaffrey vs. Ahriman, my thought would be that Ahriman's bored and he's spent milennia leading people to an easy demise. With Jaffrey, he wants to play a little bit because he doesn't think Jaffrey's going to defeat him.


Quoted Text
I also didn’t understand the customers reaction or lack of to Ahriman and his actions. It seemed at first they couldn’t see him or were ignoring him. Then when he killed the nuns the rest reacted in terror briefly but didn’t run, then calmly carried on ordering their hotdogs.


Yeah, that was a part that I didn't develop properly. At first, I had no reactions from the crowd, as if Ahriman didn't exist, but I didn't like it because then they wouldn't know Jaffrey had saved them.



Quoted Text
For the test to truly work, the customers should never really been aware of Ahriman at all or the danger they were in.  Once they know he’s there and for them to pass they need to act ‘good’ it seems to defeat the purpose of the test. I’d suggest having Ahriman visible (in his true form anyway) only to Jaffrey and their conversations hidden to the other customers also.


Hmm...this makes a lot of sense. Although, I don't know how you would get away with portraying their conversation alongside Jaffrey talking to the customers. I suppose it could be a flashback or the customers think he's talking to himself. Not sure I really like either of those options.


Quoted Text
Ahriman could curse the nuns and tells Jaffrey they will die agonising deaths soon. You could then either show this in a kind of a flash forward or not even show it at all and have Jaffrey know it to be true. This raises the tension, there’s very real danger and none of the customers are aware of it. If Jaffrey is to save them not only can he not tell them anything but he can’t demonstrate to them the danger they are in either.


By that point, I feel like the tension would be deflated. I think what I'd rather do is make Ahriman visible to the customers, but have him keep them detained at a distance so they can't hear his wager to Jaffrey. That way, they think they're just stepping up to order while this creepy demon/guy-in-a-suit watches them. When the nuns step up and are disintegrated, they're terrified. Then it's up to Jaffrey to double down and do good.


Quoted Text
Just some ideas but yeah, I really liked that, shows a lot of potential.


Thanks, Mark! You brought up some fantastic points that I knew I was overlooking. Can't remember if I've read any of your stuff lately or not. If there's anything you want me to look at, let me know.


"I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams. This wasted land. But most of all, I remember The Road Warrior. The man we called 'Max'."

THE PINBALL WARRIOR (scifi, WIP, ~30 pg.)
A STAND AGAINST EVIL (short, 9 pg.)
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DanBall
Posted: July 29th, 2013, 10:02pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from SAC
Dan,
I liked this one alot.  Clear and concise.  I read it twice as I suspected the different type, races or religions of Jaffrey's customers might yield some meaning.  Damned if I can figure that out.  Still a bit early.  Perhaps it's just you showing us that people of all races can come together when evil is at hand...something like that.


Thanks, Steve!

No meaning behind the characters, mainly just wanted to have an assortment of odd characters, like a fairy tale. The sumo wrestler with a chinchilla was the cherry on top. With the nuns later on, I did play off the idea that nuns are usually do-gooders, but Ahriman either didn't count their own good deeds in their favor or they were complacent nuns.


Quoted Text
Jaffrey's character was well done.  Enjoyed his speech pattern, and making him Indian, and the defacto leader here, goes a ways to back up what I sdaid earlier about people of different races uniting.


Yeah, I had fun "sprucing up" his grammar.


Quoted Text
Your descriptions and action were clear enough.  Did you really need the narrator?  I feel that minus this the script wouldv'e been more ambiguous, thus giving the reader something more to think about in terms of the story, and Jaffrey's arc.  That was pretty much the only thing I had an issue with.


The whole point of the narration was to add to the atmosphere of the story and to reduce the exposition I was probably going to need to include. Either exposition or lengthen the story itself. But I'd rather find a way to make the narrator work than get rid of it, because it's part of the 'Arabian Night' concept.


Quoted Text
Otherwise, a good read.  And a clever take on the "Devil and..." type story.


Thanks, Steve! I know I already read one of your scripts, but I'll keep a lookout for the others and try to give some thoughts when I can.


"I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams. This wasted land. But most of all, I remember The Road Warrior. The man we called 'Max'."

THE PINBALL WARRIOR (scifi, WIP, ~30 pg.)
A STAND AGAINST EVIL (short, 9 pg.)
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DanBall
Posted: July 30th, 2013, 8:48am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from AmbitionIsKey
Hey Dan, I read this yesterday and was quite busy so I didn't manage to get my thoughts written down.  But it's 3:40am here, there's no nice food anywhere in this house, so I thought I'd get to it.


Oh, man. And you were going to read a script about food when you wrote this...  

Quoted Text
Wasn't a fan of the narration, if felt unneeded...


Yeah, I could see that. When it comes to using narration, I'm not the most experienced at it and I wanted to use it because this concept called for it and I didn't want to spend all day explaining things using the characters themselves.


Quoted Text
I liked Jaffrey a lot.  I felt that many of the characters could have been cut to save introducing them in one block paragraph.


Hmm. Perhaps. I have a variety of characters, but their identities don't really serve a purpose. Like the sumo wrestler could be anyone with a chinchilla. It's just interesting to look at, though.


Quoted Text
Anyways, this was SUCH an intriguing read with a nice message behind it.  A cool story.  I'm actually interested to find out what made you wanna write this, if there was something personal behind it?  It was real cool.


One day, I tried to scribble down 7 short ideas in 10 minutes and this was one of those. The others were about a cowboy who meets a wizard, a football player that has a compulsive-tackling disorder, a robot prepping to throw a house party for his coworkers, a girl who rents out her womb to pay for college, a boy who's visited by Homer the Poet in his bedroom, and a couple on a date that finds out they're step-siblings.

Of those ideas, I thought this one and the cowboy/wizard one worked the best. Some of those others might work too with more thought put into them. I tried fleshing out the step-siblings one, but when I bounced the idea off people, no one liked it.


Quoted Text
I don't know what other advice to add to fix this.  Length was perfect, great writing, cool story.  I'd just say rethink the narration, because it felt too unnatural.

Curt


Thanks, Curt! I know I've already read some of your other scripts, but I'll keep an eye out for more of them and try to give my thoughts when I can. Like I said above, the narration is part of the concept, so I'll probably work on trying to fix it, rather than drop it. Thanks for pointing that out!


"I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams. This wasted land. But most of all, I remember The Road Warrior. The man we called 'Max'."

THE PINBALL WARRIOR (scifi, WIP, ~30 pg.)
A STAND AGAINST EVIL (short, 9 pg.)
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DanBall
Posted: July 30th, 2013, 8:57am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from dogglebe
I wasn't fond of this script; I'm not even sure I understood it completely.  It just seemed to go on for way too long.  IMO, you could cut two or three pages off it.


Initially, I wanted to trim some from the beginning, particularly the junkie's episode, but I felt it cut to the action too soon without really establishing the Jaffrey character first. So I left it in.


Quoted Text
Your intro...isn't a good way to introduce characters.  It overloads the readers' heads with information.  You could save the descriptions and introduce them as they step up to the stand.


Yeah, I'm thinking it's best to reveal each character as they step up, as opposed to showing my hand all at once.

Phil, thanks for taking a look at this. Sorry you didn't like it more. Let me know if I can return the favor! In the meantime, I'll keep an eye out for your stuff and look it over.



"I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams. This wasted land. But most of all, I remember The Road Warrior. The man we called 'Max'."

THE PINBALL WARRIOR (scifi, WIP, ~30 pg.)
A STAND AGAINST EVIL (short, 9 pg.)
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DanBall
Posted: July 30th, 2013, 9:22am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Colkurtz8
Daniel

It’s not often I’ve had to look up the meaning of a word in the logline


Yeah, it's not a very common religion. I chose it because I'm a HUGE Queen fan and Freddie Mercury was raised in a Zoroastrian family. The exotic nature of that sounded cool, so I wanted to tell a modern day Zoroastrian fairy tale of some sort.


Quoted Text
While I like the flat out randomness of it and not knowing much about the spiritual context explored (though a lot of it is common to most religious beliefs anyway) the oft silly humour isn’t really working for me. You got this highly bizarre situation with all these unique character but the dialogue feels rather stale, particularly Jaffrey.


The main thing I tried to do with Jaffrey was make him grumpy and bad at English grammar. Also had him reword some cliches. I'm not really sure what I should do to give it more punch.


Quoted Text
I struggle to see what age group you are aiming for too. Who’s your audience? The humour leans more to the slapstick and broad while the narrative explores ethics and faith...hell of a combination you got there! But are they compatible?


I know this is the last thing a screenwriter should do, but I'm not really aiming for any 'age group'. I'm telling an entertaining story about good vs. evil that is meant to have universal appeal. It's a whimsical story with a message...like a fairy tale, which is precisely what I was aiming for.

Fairy tales, to my knowledge, weren't always aiming for a target demo. Why should storytellers always be forced to put their stories in a box these days? The profits and the trends behind that 'box' mentality will fade away someday, but the stories will remain and people will help themselves to enjoying them, whether they're in the target demo or not. Some producers will probably pass on it because of that, but others might see it as being fresh. We'll see.

In any case, I'm glad you still gave me honest feedback, despite your misgivings. It's really appreciated and I'll look for ways to return the favor.


"I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams. This wasted land. But most of all, I remember The Road Warrior. The man we called 'Max'."

THE PINBALL WARRIOR (scifi, WIP, ~30 pg.)
A STAND AGAINST EVIL (short, 9 pg.)
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Colkurtz8
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Quoted from DanBall

The main thing I tried to do with Jaffrey was make him grumpy and bad at English grammar. Also had him reword some cliches. I'm not really sure what I should do to give it more punch.


- Why not give him good grammar? He's self employed so we can assume he has been in the country a long time (although I  realise that immigrants would surprise you how quick they can get set up in their adopted country) and since he's dealing with customers, albeit rudely, wouldn't it be a interesting twist on the tired, old stereotype of broken-English-foreigner-commits-faux pas'-with-every-sentence by having him well spoken, in that affected, learned way?

He over compensates for English not being his native tongue by overt displays of wordplay.

This could allow you to have more fun with the way he deals with his customers too.


Quoted from DanBall

I know this is the last thing a screenwriter should do, but I'm not really aiming for any 'age group'. I'm telling an entertaining story about good vs. evil that is meant to have universal appeal. It's a whimsical story with a message...like a fairy tale, which is precisely what I was aiming for.

Fairy tales, to my knowledge, weren't always aiming for a target demo. Why should storytellers always be forced to put their stories in a box these days? The profits and the trends behind that 'box' mentality will fade away someday, but the stories will remain and people will help themselves to enjoying them, whether they're in the target demo or not. Some producers will probably pass on it because of that, but others might see it as being fresh. We'll see..


- While I totally concur with your sentiment, my vote is secured, sir!.  I'm wasn't talking about marketability, or trying to pigeonhole your script into a certain genre or type.

What I'm saying is that the mix of broad, often silly humour present in the script with an attempt to tackle fundamental religious and ethical philosophies is possibly an incompatible combination...or at least it jarred for me.

Of course, as I tend to do, I could be taking all this waaaaaay too seriously

Col.


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Hi Dan,
Theres really not much more that I can add that the guys haven't already mentioned above.
I enjoyed it. It was well written, tight and read really fast.
The first paragraph was a lot to take in yes but i immediately got the humorous tone straight off the bat.
I liked the narration, I thought it added a little bit extra and was quite funny. Good job
-Gavin


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Quoted from Colkurtz8
Why not give him good grammar? He's self employed so we can assume he has been in the country a long time (although I  realise that immigrants would surprise you how quick they can get set up in their adopted country) and since he's dealing with customers, albeit rudely, wouldn't it be a interesting twist on the tired, old stereotype of broken-English-foreigner-commits-faux pas'-with-every-sentence by having him well spoken, in that affected, learned way?

He over compensates for English not being his native tongue by overt displays of wordplay.

This could allow you to have more fun with the way he deals with his customers too.


I think I get what you're saying. Instead of playing along the stereotype, I should turn him into a grumpy Yoda, who speaks eloquently...maybe in enigmas that fly over the heads of his customers?


Quoted Text
What I'm saying is that the mix of broad, often silly humour present in the script with an attempt to tackle fundamental religious and ethical philosophies is possibly an incompatible combination...or at least it jarred for me.

Of course, as I tend to do, I could be taking all this waaaaaay too seriously


Sorry to misunderstand you, originally. Honestly, I don't see how the two are mutually exclusive. I'm not really using this to preach so much as I'm trying to entertain using a religious character who wants to do good in the world. Except for my fascination with the Zoroastrian religion, his worldview of "good thoughts, good words, and good deeds" could've just as easily come from a fortune cookie or a billboard.

BACK TO THE FUTURE had broad humor and pithy little lines like, "If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything!" Sure, it was corny, but it wasn't outta place. On top of that, there were also life-and-death situations with the Libyans, Old Man Peaboy's shotgun, and the ever-present threat of Marty being erased from existence. Those weren't outta place, either.

I mean if you think I used too much religion here, I'd be up for hearing more about that. It wasn't my intention, certainly. I used so much of it mainly because I wanted to create an authentically foreign character as best I could, rather than just a hollow caricature.

When I developed the story, I already had a loose idea of how I wanted things to play out, but I thought I should research Zoroastrianism just to make sure I wouldn't embarrass myself. To my surprise, I discovered Z'ism fit my story perfectly and even offered some cool extras to use--like the faravahar symbol and actual faravahar candle holders that I could use for foreshadowing.

Thanks for the discussion, Col!


"I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams. This wasted land. But most of all, I remember The Road Warrior. The man we called 'Max'."

THE PINBALL WARRIOR (scifi, WIP, ~30 pg.)
A STAND AGAINST EVIL (short, 9 pg.)
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Colkurtz8
Posted: August 1st, 2013, 4:30am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DanBall

I think I get what you're saying. Instead of playing along the stereotype, I should turn him into a grumpy Yoda, who speaks eloquently...maybe in enigmas that fly over the heads of his customers?


- Ha, Grumpy Yoda, I like that. Perhaps not as eloquent but you get my drift.


Quoted from DanBall

Sorry to misunderstand you, originally. Honestly, I don't see how the two are mutually exclusive. I'm not really using this to preach so much as I'm trying to entertain using a religious character who wants to do good in the world. Except for my fascination with the Zoroastrian religion, his worldview of "good thoughts, good words, and good deeds" could've just as easily come from a fortune cookie or a billboard.

BACK TO THE FUTURE had broad humor and pithy little lines like, "If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything!" Sure, it was corny, but it wasn't outta place. On top of that, there were also life-and-death situations with the Libyans, Old Man Peaboy's shotgun, and the ever-present threat of Marty being erased from existence. Those weren't outta place, either.


- No they are not mutually exclusive, The Life of Brian does a great job of slapstick, screw ball humour with the thematic underpinning of sheep mentality, group thought and blind religious fervour…albeit in the Python's own slanted way. In the case of your script, which is only 9 pages, the tonal variations threw me off somewhat because it’s over such a short piece. Your earnest, enquiring sensibilities won’t get a chance to develop while being stifled by the cheap laughs. Don't get me wrong either, this approach can and will work for some people, this is just my own feelings on it.

I agree with you on Back to The Future, just watched the trilogy recently for the first time since I was a child and loved it. The “serious” elements are more fanciful, scientific whimsy than moral conundrums but I guess a case can be argued for that too. However, the tone, even in moments of extreme peril is always kept light and snappy, a gag or witty retort is never too far away.


Quoted from DanBall

I mean if you think I used too much religion here, I'd be up for hearing more about that. It wasn't my intention, certainly. I used so much of it mainly because I wanted to create an authentically foreign character as best I could, rather than just a hollow caricature.

When I developed the story, I already had a loose idea of how I wanted things to play out, but I thought I should research Zoroastrianism just to make sure I wouldn't embarrass myself. To my surprise, I discovered Z'ism fit my story perfectly and even offered some cool extras to use--like the faravahar symbol and actual faravahar candle holders that I could use for foreshadowing.


- No. While I’m not religious, I am interested though often perplexed by beliefs…but still curious nonetheless. Wasn’t it the foreign word in the logline that intrigued me in the first place But seriously, write what you are passionate about, what you want to write about and the rest will follow. The fact that you researched it shows you care about what you’re doing, that can only bode well for your development as a writer.


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DanBall
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Quoted from Colkurtz8
In the case of your script, which is only 9 pages, the tonal variations threw me off somewhat because it’s over such a short piece. Your earnest, enquiring sensibilities won’t get a chance to develop while being stifled by the cheap laughs. Don't get me wrong either, this approach can and will work for some people, this is just my own feelings on it.


I see what you're saying, now. Since I'm so familiar with this story, I'm desensitized to the timing and rhythm of the ideas and the action. Originally, I didn't think I had that problem, but it's entirely possible I do.


"I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams. This wasted land. But most of all, I remember The Road Warrior. The man we called 'Max'."

THE PINBALL WARRIOR (scifi, WIP, ~30 pg.)
A STAND AGAINST EVIL (short, 9 pg.)
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DanBall
Posted: August 1st, 2013, 10:46am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Gaviano
Hi Dan,
Theres really not much more that I can add that the guys haven't already mentioned above.
I enjoyed it. It was well written, tight and read really fast.
The first paragraph was a lot to take in yes but i immediately got the humorous tone straight off the bat.
I liked the narration, I thought it added a little bit extra and was quite funny. Good job
-Gavin


Thanks for reading, Gavin! Glad you liked it. Let me know if I can return the favor.


"I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams. This wasted land. But most of all, I remember The Road Warrior. The man we called 'Max'."

THE PINBALL WARRIOR (scifi, WIP, ~30 pg.)
A STAND AGAINST EVIL (short, 9 pg.)
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rc1107
Posted: August 6th, 2013, 10:59pm Report to Moderator
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Ha ha!  a STAND against evil.  I didn't catch on to that play on words until I was finished with the story.

Hey Dan.

I've seen you around the boards for awhile, so I thought I'd check something of yours out.

While I really liked the title and thought it was funny, the slapstick throughout wasn't working for me.  It came off a little forced and just a little too cheesy to take any of the heavy themes seriously.  It reminded me a lot of 'Little Nicky' while I was reading.

I got the impression that no one else could see or hear Ahriman except the hot dog vendor.  Does Ahriman take him aside and whisper in his ear about the deal and bet?  If so, I'd make that a little more clear since I wasn't the only person to think that.

There's some parts that were enjoyable, but I have to admit, a lot of it fell a little flat for me.  The dialect was just a little too over the top, as it affected the read and flow of the story for me.

The hot dog vendor as a whole was too back and forth for me.  The narrator tells us he's a happy man, but acts mad all the time.  (At first I thought you were going to have a type of 'Soup Nazi' character.)  The vendor goes too quickly from being mean, then happy, then irritated, then compassionate, then mean, then redemptive.  His character was just too all over the board.

Hope that makes sense.

Anyway, a nice try.  I'm glad to see that others really enjoyed it.  I knew from the genre it wouldn't be for me, but I wanted to give you a read nevertheless.

I'll be checking out another one of yours, soon.

- Mark


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DanBall
Posted: August 8th, 2013, 2:23pm Report to Moderator
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HEY, Mark!

Thanks for taking a look at my stuff.

While you're the second person to mention it, I'm not really sure how the heavy themes overpower the slapstick. It wasn't intended to be dense and layered, but not too heavy. I thought that the religious aspect was such a simple, generic message (yet true to Zoroastrianism) that it would do the trick.

As for the dialect/impediment/pattern, I don't blame you for feeling that way. It's not really one you hear too often, but I thought it would be to throw off his verb conjugating.

Your Soup Nazi comment touched upon something I guess I was trying to channel, subconsciously. Soup Nazi's the kind of character I wanted to portray, just escalated a bit more: so angry he doesn't speak. You never really find out why Soup Nazi's so angry. He just is. It seems like the stereotype. With Middle Eastern entrepreneurs in the food business. The khlav kalash guy on THE SIMPSONS is another example. I know a guy here in Louisville who's like that. I went to his Mediterranean buffet one day by myself and I was the only one in the place. Terrified the hell outta me. This story is meant to explore that stereotype.

When I started, Jaffrey was more jovial, but that didn't make Ahriman's challenge very interesting because, of course, Jaffrey would defend his customers and his business no questions asked if he's a boy scout. Coming out of his shell, proving himself a hero to his unsuspecting customers, and living out his mission were all extra hurdles for him if he was this grumpy misanthrope going through the motions everyday. What I was hoping to do is show that he'd either once been nice and inspirational to his customers or he simply had no idea how he was perceived to be or he just thought about being nice all the time and never actually WAS nice. My indecision here probably wasn't a good thing.

The progression goes that he starts out grumpy, Ahriman challenges his hypocrisy, he starts to come out of his shell a little, the mime steps up and he comes all the way out and wins the challenge, then he has to physically fight off Ahriman, and finally he's the hero who realizes how much he loves his customers after he's just defended them. My thought was it brought to the surface those softer feelings he's held deep down.

I dunno. I can kinda see how it's a lot to cram into nine pages. It seems like one of those things where I can picture it working out fine in my head, but if I tried to produce/direct/edit it myself, I'd see what you're talking about once I got it all assembled. All the events would blur by and make far less sense than they did in my head.

Sorry for the lengthy reply. If you read PINBALL WARRIOR, that's an old draft and I've polished it up the past few days from a technical perspective. I'm also considering starting a new draft period just because I'm not sure the story flows as well as it should. Again, thanks a lot for the critique. I will return the favor soon.


"I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams. This wasted land. But most of all, I remember The Road Warrior. The man we called 'Max'."

THE PINBALL WARRIOR (scifi, WIP, ~30 pg.)
A STAND AGAINST EVIL (short, 9 pg.)
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CoopBazinga
Posted: August 15th, 2013, 2:51am Report to Moderator
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Hey Dan,

This was okay, a mixed bag for me. That opening line just needed a punchline - I'm sure I've heard the joke "A rabbi, a priest (junkie) and a minister (mime) walk into a bar (hotdog stand) somewhere. Yeah, not a great way to start, just to much thrown at the reader in that opening line.

I honestly thought this was going to be a "soup nazi" type story from the opening page, but the narrator keeps saying he's happy - maybe a deeper meaning to why he's so unhappy.

Okay, so Jaffrey is some kind of protector to the souls of his customers - is that right? Then the big demon comes along and wants to take all the souls which he can anyway if he wanted, but he instead offers Jaffrey a chance to save them which he does, and I liked how they did it btw. A few questions though:

Why is Jaffrey angry or lacking warmth for his customers?

Did all the customers see and hear Ahriman? If they did, then it kinda made it easy for them and Jaffrey to escape from his clutches in a way.

Why did the candles (that I guess kept Ahriman away) just suddenly blow out.

Why didn't Ahriman just tap his pitchfork and make Jaffrey disappear like the nuns instead of fighting?

What is a "medium" Indian accent?

It was fun but I didn't understand why Jaffrey was so grumpy at the beginning? He changed at the end but it felt forced because it's never explained why he was the "soup nazi" from the get-go. If you could establish his character better in that opening page, a reason for his scowl look then his change will be more accepting. This was also why I couldn't understand his reasoning for not taking up Ahriman on his original offer as he doesn't seem to care about his customers from his demeanor or maybe I totally got lost during their discussion - that's likely.

The writing could be tightened up at times and I think shaving a couple of pages off could help the pacing - the first 4 pages do dawdle on with the businesswoman and junkie.

Best of luck with it.

Steve
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DanBall
Posted: August 22nd, 2013, 10:00am Report to Moderator
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Hey Steve,

Sorry it took me a while to respond. Thanks for taking a look at this, though! I really appreciate it.

I'm glad you didn't have a problem with the message vs. the tone. What you found wrong with the story is kind of what I hope people find wrong with. (Obviously, none of it was my original intent, but some problems are easier to fix than others.)

Jaffrey's motivations/history are buried in my notes, not the pages of the script, I think. I've explained to a few others that Jaffrey is grumpy for the same reasons we might be, though I never decided which of those reasons should be the cause. I figured he could've been nice when he first started, but became disillusioned when he began to see how stupid and oblivious the customers were. Another possibility for his grumpiness was he's just always been grumpy. He's trying to adhere to his beliefs more by trying to inspire others to have good thoughts, good words, and good deeds but he himself has yet to learn those things himself. In the Bible, Jesus asks, “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

Ahriman was a bit more difficult to decipher. What's a demon/devil desire? What are his motivations? He can cause as much death and destruction as he likes, but how would he feel about that after several millennia? My thought was that he got bored with it, so he tries to goad people into fighting back and playing with them before he dooms them. So that's what he does here. He could kill them, but he holds back because it wouldn't be fun that way. Plus, according to Zoroastrian belief, the devil is primarily concerned with just creating chaos and disrupting order. The way he does that is to make people do nothing good. Each time they do good, that restores more order to the universe. When they don't do it, the universe begins to unravel again. But again, this is all in the notes, not the script. lol


"I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams. This wasted land. But most of all, I remember The Road Warrior. The man we called 'Max'."

THE PINBALL WARRIOR (scifi, WIP, ~30 pg.)
A STAND AGAINST EVIL (short, 9 pg.)
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