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  Author    The Voice of Innocence  (currently 1230 views)
Don
Posted: February 19th, 2019, 4:43pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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The Voice of Innocence by Matthew Taylor - Short, Drama - At the brink of committing a terrible act, a terrorist is unexpectedly visited by his son, throwing his decision into doubt. 5 pages - pdf format

Writer interested in feedback on this work



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Don  -  March 6th, 2019, 5:12pm
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PrussianMosby
Posted: February 20th, 2019, 2:53pm Report to Moderator
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Hey writer,

I read the script, thought a while about it, and eventually am glad to also have google-searched Westminster Bridge to realize there was in fact a terroristic attack which put things in a another context, to me.

Not sure how strong your connection to that day should be, however, fact seems to be in your script the police managed to stop him.

Two issues to me: First, imo the characters should speak in their native language, subtitled. You can establish that early with f.i. (in Arabic, subtitled). Secondly, to me the field is too sensitive to not reveal how this British society has actually 'killed' his son as Adnan clearly  says/sees it here as the reason for hurting others.

What I liked pretty much was the boy's thinking and constant questioning. You really nailed the logic of young ones which often seems superior to the adult world.

However, especially the second point from above imo should be developed and made understood after all that happens in the context of terrorism.  You shouldn't be vague there and leave it out.



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Matthew Taylor
Posted: February 21st, 2019, 5:02am Report to Moderator
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Thank you very much for taking the time to read and comment. Much appreciated.

I have no direct link to the actual Westminster attack other than being a Brit and watching it unfold on the news (along with all the other attacks in recent years).

This script isn't based on the actual attack. As you say, in my script the attack is stopped. I used Westminster bridge to signal to the reader (especially British readers) what this guy is planning to do.

I imagined the characters to be British - A lot of attacks recently have been carried out by radicalized British nationals - Hence I didn't change the language.

Your second point I thought about a lot in the writing of this. I didn't want to have the child killed in a way that would make Britain out to be the bad guy and Adnan the good guy (He's a terrorist, I didn't want to create sympathy for him, or make him the "hero" of the story) - such as a British airstrike gone wrong in the middle east, killing Omar.

I then thought about a hate crime killing, taking place in the UK, by the far-right extremists. Hate crime has risen a lot in recent years, so there is real life backing to go that route. Doing this, I thought, would create a moral to the story of "Hate only fuels hate" I.E - far-right extremists kill his son, now he wants to kill any westerner.
But I couldn't find a logical and natural way to release this information into the script (This was submitted to a challenge so I was constricted to a 5-page limit and 2 actors in 1 vehicle)

I agree with you though, the reader/audience should have some feel of how Omar died, would give more of an insight into Adnan's state of mind and how he got to this point.

Thanks again for the read. Much appreciated

Matt


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2) Fix it
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Pleb
Posted: February 22nd, 2019, 3:02pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Matthew,

Just had a read. It's a solid. Nice, clear, concise writing. And most importantly of all, very visual.

I've also read the previous comments too. I actually like that Omar's death isn't clearly explained. I think it would probably feel forced if it did.

However, it did leave me thinking he was most likely taken out in an airstrike or something like that though... which would probably be a good argument for them speaking in Arabic too I guess.

It's a tricky one though as I get what you're saying about not wanting it to look like it's siding with Adnan... but I wonder if it really would. It didn't me. Hard to explain, but for me it showed the humanity of Adnan. Because as disgusting as such a crime would be, I believe there's the potential for such evil in all of us and sometimes it can come from something that was, at one time, good. Like the love he had for his son.

I guess I'm saying don't be afraid to be bold.

Hope that makes sense haha

Cheers

Max


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Pleb
Posted: February 22nd, 2019, 3:25pm Report to Moderator
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...I forgot to add that I don't think some of those wrilies were needed, as the tone is clear from the dialogue anyways.


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Matthew Taylor
Posted: February 25th, 2019, 7:27am Report to Moderator
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Hi Max - Thank you very much for the read.

That is exactly what I was trying to get across - That this terrorist is human, with his own reasoning/motivation for his actions (No matter how twisted or evil those actions are).
It's easy to see these people splashed around the media after the event and think "He's evil" - But why is he evil? what got him to this point, what is his twisted mind telling himself to justify these actions - That's kind of what I wanted Adnan to be, the "why".

I mean, I am glad you didn't get the feeling of siding with Adnan. Thinking on it more, who would? no matter how terrible the circumstance that led him here (death of his son), his actions would be far worse and squash any sympathy for him - Your words are very apt "Don't be afraid to be bold" - You are spot on.

Thank you again for the read and comments. Much appreciated.

Matt

P.S the wrylies. I don't even know why I do it, it's the amateur writer in me lol


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Warren
Posted: February 27th, 2019, 7:33pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Matthew,

Notes as I read.


Quoted Text
CHILD (O.C.)
(Shouting)
Stop!


Not a massive issue, but I would go with (O.S.). (O.C) is generally reserved for sitcoms. Everyone knows what you mean, it’s a personal nit-pick.

I also don’t think you need (Shouting), you have an exclamation mark, and you would assume the child is shouting over the loud revving.


Quoted Text
ADNAN
You're--
Adnan chokes on the words.
ADNAN (CONT’D)
-You died.


Another small one. I would go from em dash to em dash with the broken speech. Not em dash to dash. You're --      -- You died.


Quoted Text
ADNAN (CONT’D)
(Voice raised)
They are a blight!


Same comment as my first. No need for (Voice raised).

Just a quick note about the wrylies. The text written in them isn’t capitalised, unless it really needs to be, like a name. What I mean...

(Shouting) should be (shouting)   (Voice raised) should be (voice raised)   another example would be (to Matthew) wouldn’t be written as (To Matthew). Again this is really nit-picky stuff, but I think it all goes towards presenting the best possible screenplay you can. A reader who knows nothing about writing isn’t going to care either way, and like everyone says, story is everything.


Quoted Text
ADNAN (CONT’D)
I'm sorry son, I didn't mean--
OMAR
-You're scaring me


Two things here, first I'd go from em dash to em dash again. Second, you always need a comma when addressing someone directly in dialogue even if it's a pet name, term of endearment, or their actual name. So... I'm sorry son would be I'm sorry, son.


Quoted Text
ADNAN
You don't understand Omar


You don't understand, Omar

I think it would be great if you could change the perspective from which you are writing a bit more often. Almost every block of action starts with either Adnan or Omar.


Quoted Text
ADNAN
(Angrily)
They need to learn! They need to
understand. They kill without
consequence--
Adnan slams the gear stick into first, builds up the REVS.
ADNAN (CONT’D)
(Shouting)
-well I am the consequence!


Same two issues with the wrylies and the em dash.


Quoted Text
OMAR
Please daddy, please, please.


Please, daddy


Quoted Text
OMAR
(Shouting)
Daddy! Please! For me.
ADNAN
(Yelling)
Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!


Unnecessary wrylies.


Quoted Text
POLICE OFFICER (O.C.)
Step out of the vehicle, hands on
your head.
Adnan closes his eyes.


(O.C.) to (O.S)

SPOILER

I wasn’t a fan of this ending personally. It’s a really nice and touching arc that he wants to kill, then is swayed in the other direction by his dead son. Does he need to be arrested? Sure, maybe, but I think it takes away from the peace he arrived at.

As a whole, this is a quality short and super easy to make. I think you have the makings of a great writer. I’ve read a few of your shorts now and you definitely know how to tell a story. You really wouldn't need to change a thing and it would still be good, I just think it could be cleaner.

I can see this getting snapped up pretty quickly.

All the best.

EDIT

I just went back and had a look at which OWC entry was yours. I enjoyed it other than the tone issues. It may be worth noting that I actually mention the perspective issue in that short as well, and the (O.C.) thing. If nothing else, at least I’m consistent



Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Warren  -  February 27th, 2019, 11:12pm
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Matthew Taylor
Posted: February 28th, 2019, 6:32am Report to Moderator
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Hi Warren. Many thanks for the read and review. Much appreciated.


Quoted Text
Not a massive issue, but I would go with (O.S.). (O.C) is generally reserved for sitcoms. Everyone knows what you mean, it�s a personal nit-pick.


Old habits die hard. When I am in writing mode I automatically write (O.C). I need to get into the habit of looking at these in the re-write phase.

For my own personal understanding, why is it one is reserved for sitcoms? is there a production reason?


Quoted Text
I also don�t think you need (Shouting), you have an exclamation mark, and you would assume the child is shouting over the loud revving.


Yeah, another reviewer pointed this out as well. I have no logical explanation as to why I do it. Again, I need to get into the habit of cutting out these wrylies in the re-write phase.


Quoted Text
Another small one. I would go from em dash to em dash with the broken speech. Not em dash to dash. You're --      -- You died.


Ah, interesting. Thanks for pointing this out. When I first had a look at how to interrupt dialogue, I read to use "--" at the end of one, and "-" at the beginning of the interrupting dialogue (I don't know where I read that, I can't find it now). Your comment made me research this again, and everything I have read today agrees with you.

Lesson learned I guess to not beleive the first thing I read.



Quoted Text
Just a quick note about the wrylies. The text written in them isn�t capitalised, unless it really needs to be, like a name. What I mean...


Thanks for pointing this out, I didn't know this.



Quoted Text
you always need a comma when addressing someone directly in dialogue even if it's a pet name, term of endearment, or their actual name. So... I'm sorry son would be I'm sorry, son.


This is a sign of my poor education. I need to be more careful in my re-writing phase.



Quoted Text
I think it would be great if you could change the perspective from which you are writing a bit more often. Almost every block of action starts with either Adnan or Omar.


Good point. I need to do a bit more reading and studying i think.


Quoted Text
SPOILER

I wasn�t a fan of this ending personally. It�s a really nice and touching arc that he wants to kill, then is swayed in the other direction by his dead son. Does he need to be arrested? Sure, maybe, but I think it takes away from the peace he arrived at.

As a whole, this is a quality short and super easy to make. I think you have the makings of a great writer. I�ve read a few of your shorts now and you definitely know how to tell a story. You really wouldn't need to change a thing and it would still be good, I just think it could be cleaner.

I can see this getting snapped up pretty quickly.

All the best.

EDIT

I just went back and had a look at which OWC entry was yours. I enjoyed it other than the tone issues. It may be worth noting that I actually mention the perspective issue in that short as well, and the (O.C.) thing. If nothing else, at least I�m consistent


The ending was a combination of trying to keep realism and fear of making Adnan the "hero" of the story (I thought having him arrested at the end would show, "yea he is still a criminal"). After London terror attacks, the public are on a higher sense of alert, and the police are quick to respond to anything suspicious. So a middle eastern man shouting to himself in a white van, close to Westminster bridge, revving the engine like crazy would probably attract the attention of armed police.

You did give me some of this advice in my OWC - This one was actually written before the OWC so didn't benefit from it - I do now, however, have to go through a lot of my scripts and fix some of these issues you have pointed out lol

Thank you very much for your compliment on my writing - Lately, I have been having a few "I'm never going to be good at this, I'm wasting my time" moments - So your comment brought a smile to my face - Thanks

Thank you very much for taking the time to help me, very useful.

Regards

Matt


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Pleb
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Hey Matthew,

Just wanted to reply to your comment, "Lately, I have been having a few "I'm never going to be good at this, I'm wasting my time" moments"

Don't be a chump, fool!

in my opinion, you're good at this.

Sorry, I'm on a Rocky vibe at the moment and I keep hearing Mr T telling me what to say. Sucka!

Typos and formatting boo-boos can be dealt with easily enough. Usually just a week or two away from it does the trick. But the main thing, which is telling a good story and doing it well is what's important. And from what I've seen you're good at it.

Peace out (sucka!)


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Warren
Posted: February 28th, 2019, 4:13pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor


For my own personal understanding, why is it one is reserved for sitcoms? is there a production reason?



Like most things is screenwriting I learnt how to write by reading a lot of books, articles, and scripts. The common consensus is that you go for (O.S.) over (O.C.) in a spec script. I first read this in my absolute go to book for writing The Screenwriter's Bible. John August says he prefers (O.S.) over (O.C.) because (O.C.) has the word camera in it and has the potential to pull the reader out of the story as it reminds them that they are reading a script.

https://screenwriting.io/what-is-the-difference-between-v-o-and-o-s/  says:

"V.O. (voice over) and O.S. (off-screen) are similar terms, but they have slightly different applications. Both are used to indicate that dialogue is spoken by someone not currently seen on the screen; the difference isn’t where the speaker is not, but where the speaker is.

O.S. is used when the character is in the scene location, but not currently on screen. If Sally walks to the other side of the bedroom and into the walk-in closet, and yells unseen about how she’s out of clean socks, O.S. should be used.

In television, especially multicam sitcoms, it is not uncommon to see O.C. (off-camera) used instead of O.S.

V.O. is used when the speaker is not physically in the scene. The speaker could be someone on the other end of a telephone line or radio broadcast, an unseen narrator, or a character’s inner-monologue."

I can't remember reading anything that actually recommends (O.C.) over (O.S.) in a spec, although you will read things that say their intent is essentially the same.

Like I said, at the end of the day everyone will know what you mean. When I write I believe I have developed my own style, but that style is still firmly grounded in what is considered the standard, or the word that must not be spoken, the 'rules'. I don’t want people finding stupid stuff to nit-pick about and I think staying in the lines with certain things stops that.


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Warren
Posted: February 28th, 2019, 5:01pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor

The ending was a combination of trying to keep realism and fear of making Adnan the "hero" of the story (I thought having him arrested at the end would show, "yea he is still a criminal"). After London terror attacks, the public are on a higher sense of alert, and the police are quick to respond to anything suspicious. So a middle eastern man shouting to himself in a white van, close to Westminster bridge, revving the engine like crazy would probably attract the attention of armed police.



I don't disagree, but he didn’t commit a crime, thinking and doing are two different things. His arc is that, through the conversation with his son, he decides to do the right thing. I think if he had been caught when his intent was to kill as opposed to being caught when his mind had been changed are two different thing.

We all get angry, we all think some crazy things on occasion but our conscience (Omar) gets us thinking straight again. Who has Adnan really harmed? Sure he was thinking some pretty bad things but I personally think it’s much more satisfying not having him caught and just having him figure out the right path on his own, with Omar.

I'd be interested to see what other people think.


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Matthew Taylor
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Quoted from Warren


I don't disagree, but he didn’t commit a crime...


Planning a terrorist act is still a crime, regardless of whether it is followed through. I didn't make it clear in the script (Maybe I should do) that this was an actual plan from Adnan. I.E this attack was pre-meditated.

Anyway, I am leaning towards removing the arrest at the end. Keeping it that through the conversation with his son he has come to his senses and stopped the attack himself, without intervention from the police - Yeah, the more I think about, the more I think you are right.

When I submitted this to the competition it was intended for, I didn't have the police at the end.

Thank you for your help Warren - Much appreciated.


Quoted from Pleb
Hey Matthew,

Just wanted to reply to your comment, "Lately, I have been having a few "I'm never going to be good at this, I'm wasting my time" moments"

Don't be a chump, fool!

in my opinion, you're good at this.

Sorry, I'm on a Rocky vibe at the moment and I keep hearing Mr T telling me what to say. Sucka!

Typos and formatting boo-boos can be dealt with easily enough. Usually just a week or two away from it does the trick. But the main thing, which is telling a good story and doing it well is what's important. And from what I've seen you're good at it.

Peace out (sucka!)


Thanks for the kind words, Max. I'm sure most writers go through periods of self-doubt.

Your comment reminded me more of Booker T (former pro wrestler) than Mr T. "Can you dig it? Suckaaaaaaaaaaa"



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2) Fix it
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Warren
Posted: March 1st, 2019, 4:52am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor


Planning a terrorist act is still a crime, regardless of whether it is followed through. I didn't make it clear in the script (Maybe I should do) that this was an actual plan from Adnan. I.E this attack was pre-meditated.



I got that. I guess what I meant is that in the eyes of the law what is his crime? Sitting in his car, talking to himself, and revving his engine whilst being a Muslim?  

If he had a bomb that the cop could see or a suicide vest, or written plans for an attack, sure. But as is I don't think it's necessary.

Anyway, if you're leaning towards removing it then it's doesn't matter regardless. Just wanted to clear up what I meant.

Either way, like I said, it's a quality script

Good luck with it.



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Pleb
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Hey Matthew,

I'd never heard of Booker T, but he looks pretty funny from the youtube video I just watched.

I get what you're saying about having doubts, I think it's only natural. But like I said from what I've seen I think you have talent. Especially if all you've done is what's up on SS. Some people will be trying for years and still not get it.

Interesting to see you say you entered a different version into that LSF comp thingy. Guess you had to what with their limitations... Still, I like it as it is now. No police would definitely be easier to shoot, but for me risks being anti-climatic. At the end I'd pictured him surrounded by chaos but ultimately at peace with himself, which reflects the larger world he exists in.


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Hey Matthew,

I take back what I said about the ending. After reading the version you submitted to that comp I agree with you and Warren... works really nice without the police at the end.

Not to say the police thing didn't work, I just think the understated approach works better now... plus would be a lot easier to make if getting costumes for coppers isn't a concern.


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