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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Thriller Scripts  ›  Black Market Moderators: bert
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  Author    Black Market  (currently 11697 views)
DDP
Posted: February 18th, 2007, 5:24pm Report to Moderator
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James - My advice to you is simple, you have a great premise and you have obvious talent at writing, but you need to work on developing your characters (Cindy, the bad guys) in a way that we care about them, at least enough to want to see if they will live or die.  For Cindy, you give her a lot of time at the beginning, which hypothetically would make the audience relate to her, however, it doesn't. Nothing that Cindy does at the beginning stands out or makes me want to cheer for her. She actually seems a bit "peculiar" at the beginning, being so happy about being fired. If she was that unhappy wih her job, wouldn't she just quit? This makes her seem like a
person who can't take initiative. As for the villains of the story, I enjoy the Japanese twist to it, although it has been done before. I wish that you could make these characters more 3-dimensional. They felt more like stereotypes.  

The action scenes and death scenes are very well written and they kept me reading the script, but when I got to the end, I found myself thinking, "Good, but not 'whoa' material." I needed to feel more of a connection with the characters, any of them would have helped. I didn't get this from any angle and that weakened the story for me. If you work on character development, this script would definitely get an A+ from me. And I think this is more of a horror rather than a thriller. I love horrors and this didn't disapoint, it just needs a bit of work in some places.

DDP


Edit: After reading other comments in this thread, I wanted to clarify that although I don't think your first act is the strongest, I wouldn't recommend you doing away with it completely. I enjoy the whole background of Cindy getting fired and needing a job, ect, but I just didn't connect with her. Her personality needs retouching, not necessarily what is going on in her life. Also, I like that she was writing a book, and I actually thought the whole "heroine turning into a monster" in her novel was going to be a foreshadowing for her own life.
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James McClung
Posted: February 19th, 2007, 9:28pm Report to Moderator
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Hey DDP,

I'm going to have to disagree with you in regards to developing the characters. I understand not everyone's going to relate to these characters but they're most certainly developed. By the time the first act is over, you get to know Cindy on a very personal level. Miranda as well. You may find her peculiar but that's quite subjective. The case would be the same were Cindy too "normal." Some people might not find her peculiar or, perhaps a better word, interesting enough. Can't win them all is the way I look at it when it comes to characters. I'll give as much information on them as I can and try to make them likeable and relatable on some level but beyond that, I think people's opinions take over.

The same is not the case with the bad guys. McCain is developed but in a very unconventional way that is somewhat daunting, I realize. Within his exposition, I've mixed truth with lies. What he says about his father is true. What he says about his family is not. He is a really slippery, depraved character. You are correct to say he is somewhat underdeveloped however. His role has been expanded considerably in the rewrite. I've taken other reviewers' advice and kept him the main baddie. He's definitely a lot more solid a character now.

The Yakuza and Shigeo are also somewhat underdeveloped. They're the ones pulling the strings but they're still secondary characters basically. I developed them. They all have their own view points but their development is more basic than it is complex. I still wouldn't call them flat though. Nevertheless, they're gone from Black Market, but they'll definitely be back. I'll definitely take your comments into consideration for the future.

Anyway, thanks for the review. I appreciate your comments.


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DDP
Posted: February 22nd, 2007, 1:40am Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text
I'm going to have to disagree with you in regards to developing the characters. I understand not everyone's going to relate to these characters but they're most certainly developed. By the time the first act is over, you get to know Cindy on a very personal level.

James, I didn't mean to imply that Cindy is underdeveloped. I think she IS developed. It's just that the glimpses of her life you have chosen to write about are a bit bland and repetative, especially her interactions with Miranda.



Quoted Text
Miranda as well.

Here I have to disagree. I found this character to be very two-dimensional.


Quoted Text
You may find her peculiar but that's quite subjective. The case would be the same were Cindy too "normal." Some people might not find her peculiar or, perhaps a better word, interesting enough. Can't win them all is the way I look at it when it comes to characters.

If you reread my review, you'll see that my problem wasn't that Cindy was peculiar, but rather that the way she acts at the beginning characterizes her as a person who doesn't take initiative. Her being your female lead, I would think you would want to portray her quite the opposite. Then again, I can see someone arguing that not everyone female lead has to be perfect, etc. So, point taken.


Quoted Text

I'll give as much information on them as I can and try to make them likeable and relatable on some level but beyond that, I think people's opinions take over.

Sure, I agree.



Quoted Text

To me, as I stated, where it gets a little wearing is that Cindy doesn't have much of a variety of things to do through these pages.  I would like to see her maybe, hmm, talk with her mother?  Meet a guy?  Just thoughts.

Yes, I agree with Heretic here. This is what I meant. I like the idea of Cindy meeting a guy, this way, it can give the false impression that things are getting better for Cindy. She is about to get a job, and then, she meets a guy. The reader thinks, "Good for her, things are finally going her way," and then, BAM! She's stuck in the middle of this black market scheme.


Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
DDP  -  February 22nd, 2007, 1:53am
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James McClung
Posted: February 22nd, 2007, 4:58pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DDP
James, I didn't mean to imply that Cindy is underdeveloped. I think she IS developed. It's just that the glimpses of her life you have chosen to write about are a bit bland and repetative, especially her interactions with Miranda.


I suppose that's a fair assessment. I mean, I did have Cindy doing the exact same things for three days. I had my reasons, they just weren't good ones. Nevertheless, this is no longer the case. What's not needed is now gone.


Quoted from DDP
Here I have to disagree. I found this character to be very two-dimensional.


I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. Miranda has opinions on life and a point-of-view that is uniquely her own and she makes it known within the first act. Her development is basic but she's a secondary character so I didn't feel the need to develop her any more.


Quoted from DDP
If you reread my review, you'll see that my problem wasn't that Cindy was peculiar, but rather that the way she acts at the beginning characterizes her as a person who doesn't take initiative. Her being your female lead, I would think you would want to portray her quite the opposite. Then again, I can see someone arguing that not everyone female lead has to be perfect, etc. So, point taken.


Hmm... Well, you did use the word "peculiar." I guess that's what stood out to me as others have mentioned the same thing. As for Cindy not taking initiative, I suppose I didn't respond to that because I agree. I intended her to be that way. That's part of her arc after all. She's not just a monster at the end of the story. She sees an opportunity with the money and she takes it. She's getting ahead, not getting by. I've emphasized this further in the rewrite.

And yes, I don't like for my leads to be perfect. I don't even like for them to have their lives in reasonable order. Flaws make characters seem real, which is what I like to go for. As for Cindy's eccentricities, well, they always make characters more interesting.


Quoted from DDP
Yes, I agree with Heretic here. This is what I meant. I like the idea of Cindy meeting a guy, this way, it can give the false impression that things are getting better for Cindy. She is about to get a job, and then, she meets a guy. The reader thinks, "Good for her, things are finally going her way," and then, BAM! She's stuck in the middle of this black market scheme.


I think such characters would be pointless and drag the story too much. While there're a few scenes intended to be grabbers in the first act but the story really doesn't kick into high gear until 30 pages or so. That's pushing it a little, I suppose, but I like a build so I'll do my best to get away with it. This time around, I don't think I was so lucky. The new draft is a different story. Nevertheless, I think the addition of a guy or Cindy's mom would be too much.

Anyway, I hope you don't take any of this personally. I appreciate all comments but I also appreciate a healthy debate, which is exactly what I think this is. None of my scripts are without their flaws and I'll always try to look at things from someone else's perspective but there's some stuff I feel obligated to defend even if others disagree.


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James McClung
Posted: March 18th, 2007, 4:34pm Report to Moderator
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After much deliberation, the new draft is finally up.


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JD_OK
Posted: March 20th, 2007, 12:47am Report to Moderator
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the new scene with dr knox, the info delievered here seem on the nose and i know what u r trying to get across
perhaps, reconfigure so u get it across without necessary saying it?

Now that im reading this a 2nd time. I dont even think u need to show manager talking to miranda about not hiring her....  You dont even bring up later about her not even so work there, so def manager scene can go....you could just say later miranda say, manager said we are okay for now, but will need summer help in about a month" something along those lines.

by page 18, its flowing alot alot better now then previous, congrats on that

coo, u gave buddy and her brief back story.... better

pg 22- i think buddy's reason is not needed, does cindy really have a reason? no she just need a job, like buddy he just wants a job and his mom knows the owner... end of story there on why they are going for interview.

pg 25- u need description b4 dialog on every scene

side note, good good.. u meet the 1st act requirement... page 25, old world is gone and now she is in for a new one.
i think u can cut down more on page 28 with the mortician. You describe almost every detail. Need to simply more. Get to the main parts. You have two page of description of things that happen to a guy we know nothing about or care for.

pg 31. I think u are over using the finallies. The one here is not even needed
p32. How does the audience know what is filled with the syringe, besides blood???  fix

did you realize you have 5 pages of utter description before word of dialogue is spoken?? This has to be condensed!! 30-35. Time to really nit pick

pg 35- avoid the use, suddenly, again, now and still. Actions occur in he order you write them. those words r unecessary.
pg 42- really strikes my od this mortician fighting too immobile people, doesnt shout... call for help and call names. To alert others.
page 43- cindy saying " no you're not"... how does she know? she lost a eye b4? She doesnt need to say this here.
52- loose my license," was that a attempt of humor from knox? To me this person would try and be funny. We know he risks going to jail for murder if this place is caught...

53-54 diaglogue between knox and mcCaine is really doesnt work for me. Too much of cheesy talk for the exposition delievered. Less is more sometimes.

I really dont by he doesnt check, just for the shakeof being caught in this dirty business., i know u triedto justify it, but it would have took a second to look. would work much better if he did but cindy had moved during their convo

missing period after buddy, page 56

nice rekill of buddy

u still have the her making alot of noise with the phone.... she should be out of there by now...sae to call like know said

pg 61, y doesnt cindy try to out out another way then the 1st? Back or side.. away from them! Especially since she found this briefcase of money

62- again why r we to believe mcCain was only room to have a phone line. I know i said this before.. the receptionist has a phone too!!

pg63.. power, influence.. a doctor has this?

you really need to have DREAM in heading.. then end dream when it is over

I really didnt see the point of the dream. Trying to convey the stuff about the money?

You really need to give the doctor and assistant real names.. she speak enuff to have real names
by page 70.. i think i preffered other draft, its was more interesting no the less.

72- why is cindy goin unconscious again for like the 3rd time? And I dont see a clear reason for this time. Cuz she is cold and tired....how could shesleep with life on the line???
I dunno, im just not feeling dr. knox rants, while working on a body. Cuz its nthing new. you have been working on body parts since page 28 or 30... 40 pages later,, cindy is right back where she started.

pg 74 stahll by stall... is kinda cliche

you are taking to long mccain vs knox... these are bad guys why dont wanna see them forever after eachother. We wanna see Cindy struggle to get out of situation. There should have been some cutting to cindy between these two, her trying to get out.

78- I'm not liken their dialogue... forced and unatural
79- okay, u just confused the hell out of me.  barke hospital scenes needs begin flashback  and end when it is over.
80- its been 8 pages since we seen out protagonist cindy. This was wy to long to be focuing on the bad guys we care less about.. them gettin even with eachother.

81- was is she confessing this to her. He set her up to be kille at the very begining.. I dont buy this behavior from him.
82 - flash again for this scene. I dont think u need this scene just to clarify he cant have children? I mean it really isnt a big deal just for him to say this. I know u was doin show not tell, but it is a tell in the show here.

83- mother her children... this is just gettin silly.

Again with the scene heading.with a crazy dream, this going against the theme realistics on your story. It doesnt fit in this realm.

Why did cindy leave the money there in the office, then try to leave out the front only to confront knox. When exactly did she plan on retrieving it if she got away at the time.

She breaks out of the home with the ambulance, just to go back and get the money... Its hard to chew all of this.
and it ends without any closure.

I honestly didnt like this new 2nd and third act. 75 pages of being stuck in the building. She could have escaped plenty of times. And yet she stays and gets caught twice. I think in order for this script to work, she need to escape and shit happens to her outside of this funeral. Maybe they have her license info and now they go to clean up the mess.

Overall, you did improve the 1st act greatly. Just the rest didnt help with what you set up. Your description are OVERLY written. you say so much detail to the point of  the person blinks... Simplify, simplify, simplify.

I know all of this is not what you would like to hear. Its just my honest opinion. Good luck with new draft. Ill b here again if you need a read. I'm about to start my 5th draft.


Newton's Cradle - action/fantasy, 10th draft 109pgs pdf

IN QUEUE - Comedy - Coming soon!



Revision History (1 edits)
JD_OK  -  March 20th, 2007, 1:09am
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James McClung
Posted: March 20th, 2007, 1:42am Report to Moderator
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Hey JD. Thanks for reading again.

I'm sorry you didn't like the new ending. Nevertheless, I think there were a few things you misunderstood...

I sort of understand where you're coming from with the dream sequence. It was kind of a gamble but I still think it has its purpose. Its not intended to forward the plot in anyway but contribute to Cindy's character arc. She starts out as a person who doesn't see the value in money and lives life just to get by. In the end, she's the polar opposite. The dream sequences were intended for Cindy to reflect on everything that's happened to her and essentially reevaluate not only her circumstances but her life. The surreality of the dream is quite a major contrast from everything else that's going on though. Good point.

You complain about Cindy's missed opportunities of escape. Fact is, she only has one when she turns back to rescue Buddy. I thought with their newly written connection, it'd make sense for her to do such a thing. Afterwards, Knox locks the gates to the funeral home thus she can't escape without his help. Their confrontation is unavoidable. When she's back in the waiting room, the doorknob is broken off so she can't very well get out. You did bring up the receptionist phone again though. How stupid of me! I wrote a note right smack dab in the middle of that particular scene after I read your post so I won't forget to fix it again.

As for McCain's plans for Cindy, he didn't intend to kill Cindy at any point. He meant to only harvest organs she could live without and allow her to recover following the harvesting. I made note of such a recovery but perhaps his plan still wasn't obvious enough. I'll rewrite the scene so it's more so. As for McCain artificially inseminating Cindy being silly, well, that's a matter of opinion. I was going for something sick. As much as I think it's a shame you found it silly, there's really nothing much I can do about it.

As for the silly/cheesy dialogue, again, it's a matter of opinion. I reread the scenes you mentioned and didn't see what the problem was.

I also mentioned that the syringe fills with bone marrow. Look back and see if you don't find the description.

Then there's where you are 100% right...

Knox vs. McCain. I know they're bad guys. No one cares what happens to either. I was hoping the suspense would lie in which villain Cindy would ultimately face. Nevertheless, the fact remains Cindy is the main character and the focus should remain on her. I'll try to intercut the Knox vs. McCain sequence with scenes of her.

Miranda's exchange with her boss/McCain's flashback. Neither of them are needed. You're absolutely right. Consider them gone. Buddy's explanation for why he's working at the funeral home, on the other hand, I disagree. It needs to be there. It develops his character and aims to make him sympathetic.

And yes, I do tend to lay descriptions on pretty thick. I'm still trying to cut down on that. It's a bad habit.

The rest of your notes, I found to be pretty helpful. Thanks for taking the time to read this again .


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JD_OK
Posted: March 20th, 2007, 1:59am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from James McClung


You complain about Cindy's missed opportunities of escape. Fact is, she only has one when she turns back to rescue Buddy.


No I didnt have a problem with her goin back for buddy. Its after that between the time he dies and she goes for the phone, til she is caught again.

She could easy see they were out front and looks for alternate escape route, perhaps out back?


Quoted from James McClung

As for the silly/cheesy dialogue, again, it's a matter of opinion. I reread the scenes you mentioned and didn't see what the problem was.


just take note of it, and ask other readers if they felt the same. if not, leave it ;0)


Quoted from James McClung

I also mentioned that the syringe fills with bone marrow. Look back and see if you don't find the description.


Huh?

Quoted from James McClung

Buddy's explanation for why he's working at the funeral home, on the other hand, I disagree. It needs to be there. It develops his character and aims to make him sympathetic.


I knew what u was going for. But the story of him just wanting to work, and he took his dog in for treatment felt enough for me. What more sympathetic then just a young kid looking for his 1st job ad ends up cut up?

Quoted from James McClung


The rest of your notes, I found to be pretty helpful. Thanks for taking the time to read this again .


Welcome! Good deal, just take what you can from any review, disregard what u dont agree with!


Newton's Cradle - action/fantasy, 10th draft 109pgs pdf

IN QUEUE - Comedy - Coming soon!


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James McClung
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Quoted from JD_OK
No I didnt have a problem with her goin back for buddy. Its after that between the time he dies and she goes for the phone, til she is caught again.

She could easy see they were out front and looks for alternate escape route, perhaps out back?


Never thought of a back route. Oh well. No worries. Being a writer, I find it quite easy to throw some permanent debris in a character's escape route, hehe.


Quoted from James McClung
I also mentioned that the syringe fills with bone marrow. Look back and see if you don't find the description.



Quoted from JD_OK
Huh?


Perhaps this would be best clarified with a quote of your own.


Quoted from JD_OK
p32. How does the audience know what is filled with the syringe, besides blood???  fix


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JD_OK
Posted: March 20th, 2007, 2:39am Report to Moderator
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I was refering to the bone marrow and calcium residue, you says fills alot with blood.

Those words cant be show on screen exactly bone marrow and calcium with inthe syrindge beside just blood


Newton's Cradle - action/fantasy, 10th draft 109pgs pdf

IN QUEUE - Comedy - Coming soon!


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James McClung
Posted: March 20th, 2007, 6:48am Report to Moderator
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Bone marrow is gelatinous in appearance. It'd look different for sure. Even if it can't be shown on screen that it's bone marrow everyone's looking at, that's still what it is. People will still understand its being harvested and sold. That's what counts.


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Steve-Dave
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Hey James, I'm more than halfway through, and thought I'd post what I have so far so you know I'm on the job.

SPOILS.........................................................................................................................................................................

pg 1 - in description, no need to repeat we're instorage room when it's in the slugline.

pg 6 - "Cindy retrieves of glass of water"

pg 9 - The wording confuses me. I think the assistent takes the folders away, right? So, you should put that other than putting "the doctor", as Knox is a doctor as well, put the assistant as he's listed when he speaks.

pg 9 - "plat" = plate.

pg 9 - significance of answering the door? show the delivery guy.

pg 10 - MIRANDA - "It’s not like in college where they just stick with any random person."

pg 11 - Maybe you should use a new slugline for when Cindy enters the kitchen.

pg 12 - MIRANDA'S BOSS - Miranda, could I see you in the back for a moment (?)

pg 12 - you have it in description  that they go into the backroom and then signify it again in next slugline, and then have "Miranda and her boss enter a cramped storage room" in the next description. not really necessary and all redundant.

pg 12 -  Miranda - "Is that a problem (?)"

pg 13 - You say after she fills out applications she climbs into bed, yet never have her leave the kitchen.

pg 17 - Describe If the voice is a man or woman?

pg 22 - "unseen figure" seems odd to use, since we can see what he is doing, so we ould get more of an idea of what it is. Maybe "silhouette of a man" or a figure in the shadows or something'd be better.

pg 23 - "Make turns four framed photographs on his desk" - I think you mean MCCAIN turns...

kudos on the parents heads cut out of the pictures by the frame. I don't know why, but that's a pretty creepy image to me.

pg 24 & 25 - have a little description when we rejoin McCain and Cindy

bottom pg 27 - "as he struggled to scream". And you should try to find your way around "is heards"

If the mortician is just gonna throw him into the fire anyways, why bother stiching him up?

Just a suggestion, but I think it would be a lot creepier if the embalming took place in the same room as Where Cindy is held in the tub, and she could see it all as it happens. I think you could have more fun with that, and it would give us more time with Cindy since we're pushed into all this prety quick.

More good imagery of Cindy in the hallway in plain sight, and her seeing the mortician's feet from under the table. Good way of creating tension. As well as her reluctant to cut the mortician, as I could see that happening.

I'm not sure how to feel about Buddy's eye. To me it actually makes me dislike Cindy a little because she could've stopped it, and why not just run in there and stab the mortician? I'd much rather see her make the noise and have him divert his attention just before doing anything to Buddy. I think that'd be more suspenseful.

pg 41 - "His eyelids to flutter involuntarily."

I think it'd be too hard for the mortician to kick Buddy with a crippled leg.

Nice pliers in the Adam's apple.

One thing I can't stand in horror movies is when they leave the bad guy to die. I think they'd just stab him as much as they can.

Knox smothering Buddy with his abdomen until he passes out seems a little odd. How about just some chloriform or a sedative instead. Or even a vulcan neck pinch or something'd be better.

pg 50 - "The airway is wide enough for Cindy fit inside but notenough to for her..."

I think Knox is too nonchalant about Cindy. He should be even MORE concerned if she escaped, cuz then she'd definitely get the cops, but he just seems like it's no big deal. Finding her is essential to their operation's livelihood. I think he would care a lot more.

more later...


"Picture Porky Pig raping Elmer Fudd" - George Carlin
"I have to sign before you shoot me?" - Navin Johnson
"It'll take time to restore chaos" - George W. Bush
"Harry, I love you!" - Ben Affleck
"What are you looking at, sugar t*ts?" - The man without a face
"Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death." - Exodus 31:15
"No one ever expects The Spanish Inquisition!" - The Spanish Inquisition
"Matt Damon" - Matt Damon
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James McClung
Posted: March 21st, 2007, 7:43pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Steven. Thanks for your comments.


Quoted from Steve-Dave
pg 9 - significance of answering the door? show the delivery guy.


This is part of the routine of Cindy's other job. I wanted to show that this is basically an everyday thing for her. You get that Cindy gets paid for this from her exchange with Miranda but I figured maybe people would think this is just a one time thing.


Quoted from Steve-Dave
If the mortician is just gonna throw him into the fire anyways, why bother stiching him up?


So he doesn't make a mess on the gurney. Then again, that's what the embalming table is for. I guess you're right. I'll fix this.


Quoted from Steve-Dave
Just a suggestion, but I think it would be a lot creepier if the embalming took place in the same room as Where Cindy is held in the tub, and she could see it all as it happens. I think you could have more fun with that, and it would give us more time with Cindy since we're pushed into all this prety quick.


That's an idea though if Cindy were going to be in the same room during the harvesting, she'd be in the embalming room. I'll think about it.


Quoted from Steve-Dave
I'm not sure how to feel about Buddy's eye. To me it actually makes me dislike Cindy a little because she could've stopped it, and why not just run in there and stab the mortician? I'd much rather see her make the noise and have him divert his attention just before doing anything to Buddy. I think that'd be more suspenseful.


I'll see what I can do.


Quoted from Steve-Dave
I think it'd be too hard for the mortician to kick Buddy with a crippled leg.


He uses his other leg.


Quoted from Steve-Dave
I think Knox is too nonchalant about Cindy. He should be even MORE concerned if she escaped, cuz then she'd definitely get the cops, but he just seems like it's no big deal. Finding her is essential to their operation's livelihood. I think he would care a lot more.


The way Knox sees it, if indeed Cindy did escape, she wouldn't be able to contact the police in time to catch him and his assistant at work. He doesn't care if they search the funeral home. They're not going to find anything connected to him.

Nevertheless, I think it'd be more believable if they did a little searching. Maybe Knox's assistant could talk him into it. I think it might work better that way. This new draft's down to less than 90 pages. I could afford a couple more.

Thanks again. Look forward to the rest of your review.


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Steve-Dave
Posted: March 22nd, 2007, 5:35am Report to Moderator
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finished! Here's the rest for you viewing pleasure.

SPOLERAMA>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Quoted from James McClung
This is part of the routine of Cindy's other job. I wanted to show that this is basically an everyday thing for her. You get that Cindy gets paid for this from her exchange with Miranda but I figured maybe people would think this is just a one time thing.


Yeah, I forgot to elaborate, those were just the notes that I forgot to fix, but I meant I knew she was answering the door because of her other job, but you don't signify it in the screenplay. You just say she gets up and answers the door, but you should have the delivery guy standing on the otherside of the door, which you don't.


Quoted from James McClung
He uses his other leg.


Yeah, but it's like that "like a one legged man in an ass kicking contest" joke. You need two legs to kick, if one is crippled, then he won't have anything to stand on while he kicks with the other leg.

pg 56 -"before the ambulance driver appears behind him and slits in throat with a scalpel." and if Buddy's so expendable, why not just kill him when he first encountered Knox?

I loved the dream sequences with Cindy and McCain. Weird stuff. Nice.

Why didn't Cindy call the cops from the receptionist's phone after she told him to scram?

pg 71 - "and a bottle or rubbing alcohol."

pg 84 - "...between the two of them on floor."

pg 87 - "...and proceeds past an McCain."

Didn't Cindy find her cell phone? Where are the cops?

I am also confused by McCain's intentions. I don't know what was in the dropper for one. Also, I don't know much about the subject, but if he has bad sperm, then would he be able to create new kids with Cindy either anyways. But even if they could extract sperm from him, once again I'm not an expert on how that works, but he said that he told the surgeon to take it easy on Cindy, but she would still not be able to live if they removed her organs, unless he just wanted her eggs. But he said he wanted her as a wife, so I'm confused abot how that's supposed to work.

McCain's head crushing in the ambulance was cool, but I'd rather see Cindy fry his head with a defribulator paddle on both sides of his head.

I also find it hard to believe that Cindy would re-enter the funeral home. The money was a cool ending, but unlikely since she doesn't know that Knox and the others are dead. Unless I missed something, but I don't remember McCain saying Knox was dead.

Other Negatives:
Lots of logic questions, and a lot of the dialogue I felt fell flat. I feel you could cut a lot of it out. To me a lot of the surgeon scenes, particularly when Cindy first awakened in the tub reminded me of Hostel a lot. The bit about  Knox saying "a surgeon has the power to determine whether one lives or dies" seems kinda like what the business man says as well. I found myself finding a lot of similarities to Hostel along the way, so you might want to fine tune some things to give them a little more originality here and there and think of some new ways to approach the similar territories. I also think, and this is more personal than anything, but there wasn't a whole lot of emotion I thought. I can't put my finger on it but some dynamic just seemed missing, like you needed another side story with Cindy to make us care for her a little more. Because right now, she just seems like any ordinary girl who got caught in a bad situation, but she's not really wrestling with anything. Personally, In horror types like this, I like to see the problem mirror the emotional struggle in the character. Like Silence of the Lambs for example and the angle of catching the killer so she could silence the lambs. Like maybe Cindy has a brother who died, and she sees that in Buddy, or she botches all of her interviews on purpose, but Miranda gives her a pep talk or something, and that gives more relevance to the interview at the funeral home or something. But right now, it's just someone who goes to a job interview and blam, she's knocked out. Which is probably what you intended, but like I said, it's more of a personal critique. I think you could have a little more intro of cindy before we're thrown into the black market stuff.

Positives:
Cindy was a cool lead. I think she was the main strength of the story. Even though I think you could flesh her out a little more, I could relate to her and I liked her and wanted to see her make it out. She's what kept me interested mostly. I also must commend your use of a female lead. You are also very good at creating suspense and tension, and you had a lot of cool death scenes and gore, I mean, you even had a defribulator as a weapon, nice. I also dig your descriptive style. And I think a lot of your logic problems are easily fixable with just some rearraging and cutting. Cuz it's pretty short, but think you could cut out some of the black market stuff, and put in some more with cindy at the beginning. And that's my two cents.


"Picture Porky Pig raping Elmer Fudd" - George Carlin
"I have to sign before you shoot me?" - Navin Johnson
"It'll take time to restore chaos" - George W. Bush
"Harry, I love you!" - Ben Affleck
"What are you looking at, sugar t*ts?" - The man without a face
"Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death." - Exodus 31:15
"No one ever expects The Spanish Inquisition!" - The Spanish Inquisition
"Matt Damon" - Matt Damon

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bert  -  March 23rd, 2007, 9:39am
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James McClung
Posted: March 22nd, 2007, 10:13am Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the review, Steven.


Quoted from Steve-Dave
Yeah, I forgot to elaborate, those were just the notes that I forgot to fix, but I meant I knew she was answering the door because of her other job, but you don't signify it in the screenplay. You just say she gets up and answers the door, but you should have the delivery guy standing on the otherside of the door, which you don't.


Last time I checked, Cindy isn't even in her apartment when the delivery man arrives. She's returning from her job and runs into him.


Quoted from Steve-Dave
Yeah, but it's like that "like a one legged man in an ass kicking contest" joke. You need two legs to kick, if one is crippled, then he won't have anything to stand on while he kicks with the other leg.


The guy's supposed to be lying on the floor. Maybe I forgot to mention that. I'll go back and check.


Quoted from Steve-Dave
Why didn't Cindy call the cops from the receptionist's phone after she told him to scram?



Quoted from Steve-Dave
Didn't Cindy find her cell phone? Where are the cops?


Oof! Never thought about the first comment. The second, I didn't consider Cindy would search for her cell phone. I'm a stickler about logistics yet somehow, these things got past me. No worries. I'm going to get rid of both phones in the funeral home and just change them to speaker boxes. It makes more sense that way, anyway. I can't imagine Knox would want calls to Burke & Hare on the funeral home's list of calls. McCain would use his cell instead, I imagine.

As for Cindy and Buddy's cellphones, I'll have McCain destroy them. Cindy'll find them in his office.

Problem solved!


Quoted from Steve-Dave
I am also confused by McCain's intentions. I don't know what was in the dropper for one. Also, I don't know much about the subject, but if he has bad sperm, then would he be able to create new kids with Cindy either anyways. But even if they could extract sperm from him, once again I'm not an expert on how that works, but he said that he told the surgeon to take it easy on Cindy, but she would still not be able to live if they removed her organs, unless he just wanted her eggs. But he said he wanted her as a wife, so I'm confused abot how that's supposed to work.


I made an attempt to keep McCain's intentions subtle but clear enough for the reader/viewer to put the pieces together. I obviously didn't do a good job. Anyway, in case you missed this as well, the plastic cup contains the contents of the "sample" Knox refers to. It's actually donor sperm, which McCain uses to try and artificially inseminate Cindy. I wanted McCain's plot to be more disturbing on a psychological level but as soon as you describe him filling a dropper full of semen, this becomes Pink Flamingoes. I didn't want that but I guess I need to make note of it one way or another. As for Cindy dying after the harvesting, I imagined McCain intended to harvest only a kidney or so and some bone marrow to keep Knox happy but still have Cindy pull through in the end... or something to that effect. I'll make note of that as well.


Quoted from Steve-Dave
McCain's head crushing in the ambulance was cool, but I'd rather see Cindy fry his head with a defribulator paddle on both sides of his head.


After he gets shocked the second time, McCain is basically mentally retarded. I didn't think Cindy was heartless enough to kill him off in such a direct way after that so I went with the head crushing. I'm satisfied with it. Besides, I don't think the defribulator paddle would "fry" his head as you say. I went with internal bleeding instead. More painful .


Quoted from Steve-Dave
I also find it hard to believe that Cindy would re-enter the funeral home. The money was a cool ending, but unlikely since she doesn't know that Knox and the others are dead. Unless I missed something, but I don't remember McCain saying Knox was dead.


I could always have Knox crawl out of the utility room and die in the hallway. That'd fix things, wouldn't it?


Quoted from Steve-Dave
Lots of logic questions, and a lot of the dialogue I felt fell flat. I feel you could cut a lot of it out. To me a lot of the surgeon scenes, particularly when Cindy first awakened in the tub reminded me of Hostel a lot. The bit about  Knox saying "a surgeon has the power to determine whether one lives or dies" seems kinda like what the business man says as well. I found myself finding a lot of similarities to Hostel along the way, so you might want to fine tune some things to give them a little more originality here and there and think of some new ways to approach the similar territories.


I can understand why you would think Knox's dialogue is similar to the Dutch Businessman's in Hostel but I think it's fundamentally different. I'll consider rewording it nevertheless. Other than that, I don't see any Hostel similarities. Hostel is about paying for torture. This is about illegal organ harvesting. I don't see the connection. Hostel also wasn't the first horror movie to feature a surgeon going to work slicing someone up in a decrepit basement or someone waking up in a dark room wondering where the fuck they are. This stuff has been going on since the '70s.


Quoted from Steve-Dave
I also think, and this is more personal than anything, but there wasn't a whole lot of emotion I thought. I can't put my finger on it but some dynamic just seemed missing, like you needed another side story with Cindy to make us care for her a little more. Because right now, she just seems like any ordinary girl who got caught in a bad situation, but she's not really wrestling with anything. Personally, In horror types like this, I like to see the problem mirror the emotional struggle in the character. Like Silence of the Lambs for example and the angle of catching the killer so she could silence the lambs. Like maybe Cindy has a brother who died, and she sees that in Buddy, or she botches all of her interviews on purpose, but Miranda gives her a pep talk or something, and that gives more relevance to the interview at the funeral home or something. But right now, it's just someone who goes to a job interview and blam, she's knocked out. Which is probably what you intended, but like I said, it's more of a personal critique. I think you could have a little more intro of cindy before we're thrown into the black market stuff.


I don't know what more I can do for Cindy. I gave her a backstory, a personality, and a reason to care for her. And the plot did mirror her emotional struggles. Cindy starts out as someone who cares little about money then finds herself in an environment where money is the bottom line and ends up being corrupted by it. You, yourself, said you could relate to her and wanted to see her make it out. I've done my job then, haven't I? I'd like to think so.

Anyway, I'm glad you seemed to like the script (am I right?). I also appreciate you making note of the use of a female lead, I'm quite proud of that, and also the use of suspense throughout. It's my opinion films of this sort need more than just carnage. Your comments have been very helpful and I'll be sure to make good use of them during the rewrite. Thanks again for the review.



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