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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Thriller Scripts  ›  The Fickle Pickle Moderators: bert
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  Author    The Fickle Pickle  (currently 2999 views)
Don
Posted: June 3rd, 2007, 11:38am Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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The Fickle Pickle by Eric Johnson (IBEJohnson) - Thriller, Noir, Suspense - The disreputable town of Little Pinoche is the seedy backdrop for this intricate noir fairytale filled with black humor, genre style, and the mishaps & madness of recently retired WAR veteran Max Fickle. After Max incurs a whopping debt to a sadistic local crime lord  - The Grand Poobah - he accepts a one-time job with a high payout; but events take a razor-sharp turn when Max finds he hasn't the stomach for cold-blooded killing and instead attempts to hoodwink the entire Little Pinoche underworld, beginning a calculating round of double and triple crosses. Soon everyone from an albino pawnbroker to a philosophical photographer wants to put Max on an elevator to the gallows. 108 pages - pdf, format


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Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Don  -  June 22nd, 2007, 7:55am
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IBEJohnson
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Hello everyone.  Hope ya'll have some time to take at look at our script.  We appreciate any comments or criticism you may have.  Enjoy!

Eric and Norm


-- For a good time, get a hooker.  For a better time read The Fickle Pickle --
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IBEJohnson
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Just an update to any who may have been scared off by the initial page count... A new PDF version has just been uploaded, so we are now sitting pretty at 108 pages (same as FDR) rather than the 118 that the RTF format produced.

I hope some of you will give it a read...

Eric


-- For a good time, get a hooker.  For a better time read The Fickle Pickle --
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dogglebe
Posted: June 24th, 2007, 12:24pm Report to Moderator
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You've been on this site for a month, Eric.  And, in all that time, you reviewed one script (in which you discussed only the writer's English).  You should review more scripts if you want to get read, yourself.



Phil
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IBEJohnson
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Ouch!!!  I guess it's against the rules around here to suggest that someone read your script.  I re-read my post... if I came off whiny or ungrateful, I'm not sure what I might have said differently to change that.  Sorry if I've offended anyone.  


-- For a good time, get a hooker.  For a better time read The Fickle Pickle --
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IBEJohnson
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Hey Seth,

Thanks for the great comments.  I'll say this - I was really expecting to get slammed on what you refer to as our "novelistic writing style".  From what I can see, most writers on this website stick hard and fast to the rules of brevity in terms of action.  Norm and I (as you can see from our writing style) like to play around with that rule a little more.  Recently I posted a revision to the script where we reduced the length from 125 to 108 pages.  In that 17-page trim we did not cut one single scene.  A few lines of dialogue here and there, but probably 16 of those 17 pages were cut from the action.  I'm glad you were able to read the new version because I feel that we are still effectively able to evoke tone with compromising (too badly) the structure of the script.  

Side note:  I suspect your thoughts on how 'professional readers' view this topic are true.  Last year we submitted the script to a small contest that purports to have 'industry professionals' reading all scripts.  Each reader (there were three) filled out an evaluation form and provided some comments at the bottom.  One reader specifically had almost nothing good to say about the script in the comment section.  She berated us for the format of the script, over and over.  I wish I had her comments here with me so I could quote her, but nevertheless it was clear she did not like the liberty we took in writing the action so long.  What I found interesting though was that her 'scorecard' up above was quite good.  With the exception of the Format score, she rated us high in story, character development, concept, tone, etc.  The very last thing on this sheet of paper was a question:  Would you recommend this script?  Her answer: NO!  To me, that's funny.  According to her own scoring, she liked basically everything about the script with the exception of the way we formatted it, and because of that she was not willing to pass it along.  That's Hollywood for you, I guess.

It is fair to say, however, that we were somewhat indulgent in that arena.  This happened before we made the 17-page cut.  It likely came off to her as very 'in your face' which she may have found offensive and therefore caused such a harsh reaction.   Like I said before, I think the new version is a great compromise, and it simply reads better.  Ideally, Norm and I intend on producing this ourselves, so the idea of conforming just for the sake of conforming, doesn't really appeal to us.  But, if our dreams are to be smashed and we must settle on shopping the script (perish the thought ), we'll have to really consider giving it one more trim.

Sorry to blather on so long about that.  Thanks again for giving it a spin.  I really appreciate the comment on the effort put into the script.   What you read was Draft 4, v.2, so yeah, we definitely have put a lot of time and energy into this.  It means a lot to know that this comes through in the final product. Also, it was nice to have another eye catch some of the mistakes.  It's amazing to me how you can spend so much time trying to eliminate these things and there's always something new popping up.

Eric


-- For a good time, get a hooker.  For a better time read The Fickle Pickle --
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NW3
Posted: July 16th, 2007, 10:25am Report to Moderator
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I nearly didn't read this, the title put me off. That's surely not good as it's the first thing any reader sees, and shouldn't be the last. A title ought to give some idea of the piece. A childrens story about a playful gherkin? I read the synopsis, and it makes better sense when you learn Fickle is a name but it's still not good: there's this guy called Fickle, and he gets in a pickle,... it sounds like a comedy. I could almost take it if the story is set up right. It's hard to tell what it's about, what there is of the story is muddled, and that's all you need to set up. It's off-putting where it should be enticing and two strikes against before I've even opened the PDF. Good luck on TriggerStreet as it surely won't be just me. The pity of it is the script is good. Very assured writing, colorful characters, plenty of incident, and authentic noirish ring-a-ding dialogue. The plot is a little off but I'll get to that.

Here's what you've got in story beats (as best I understood - if I've missed something or got it wrong then you know what could be clearer):



*SPOILERS*


- In a cabin basement ROSE MCFADDEN (20s) lies seemingly dead. MAXWELL FICKLE, JR. looms over her

- Thugs GYPSY JACK and RENO arrive at a nightclub owned by THE GRAND POOBAH (50s). He orders them to find one Max Fickle

- Sheriff ARCHIE WHITE (early 40s) flirts on his office telephone. His secretary tries to connect him with his wife but he refuses the call. He takes delivery of a note that concerns Fickle

- GEORGIA WHITE (late 30s) is pulled over for speeding but uses her husband's name to get off

- In a barn on the outskirts of town ageing boxer Gerald 'THE GENERAL' Sternwood is confronted by Reno and Gypsy Jack, here seeking his old sparring partner Fickle. Sternwood believes him to be dead but gives them the address

- At home Archie White arranges delivery of an incinerator to his isolated cabin. Georgia interrupts. They make some attempt at intimacy and bicker. Archie slips away under Georgia's suspicion

- Max calls at his father's apartment but no-one is home. Reno and Gypsy Jack arrive and take Max at gunpoint

- Georgia visits Poobah at his office. She wants him to photograph Archie with his lover. She gives the address of the cabin

- Max is taken to the barn, where the two thugs kill The General

- Leaving the club, Georgia crosses paths with Rose, the club singer. Rose intends to meet Archie at the cabin that night. Poobah romances Rose in her dressing room having made her his headline act

- The two thugs bring Max and The General's body to the club. Max is recently out of prison. Poobah realizes they have the wrong Maxwell Fickle. He passes the father's debt to the son, to be paid by the weekend

- Poobah watches Rose perform her sultry club act

- At a restaurant Max meets his parole officer DICK BISHOP, who presses him to get work. Max appeals for help to find his missing father

- At his cabin Archie greets Rose. He tells her he has business to attend to. She jealously swaps a photograph of Georgia among his papers for her own. Archie shows her a case full of money that he hides under the floor

- Max meets BOWSER MACFADDEN at his pawn shop

- Archie meets Poobah and his thugs to arrange the killing of his wife. They need a patsy and choose Max Fickle

- Max tries to get work through Bowser but Poobah phones to warn the fixer off

- At his father's apartment Max is visited by Archie. He proposes Max arrange a fatal accident for his wife. He shows him her photo, unaware that Rose switched it. Max accepts money for the job and later receives a phone call

- He visits a hospital. Newspaper headlines tell of an unidentified body. Dick Bishop escorts him to the morgue where he has found Max Fickle Sr. Bishop warns Max that the isolated cabin is close to his travel limit

- Rose visits Bowser McFadden's pawn shop to hock a knife. Bowser is revealed as her father

- Max drives to the remote cabin town. At a motel saloon he meets elderly odd job man SHAMUS RIGBY. They share prison experience

- From a gas station payphone Archie tells Georgia he knows she went to see Poobah. He orders her to the cabin

- At night Max drives up to the cabin and stakes it out. Rose arrives by taxi. Max recognises her from the photo. He loads a gun and enters the cabin

- Rose has started drinking and takes a shine to Max as he pretends to be looking for Archie. She charms him enough to distract him from shooting her. They kiss. He tells her Archie wants her dead. He shows her the gun. She stumbles through a door into a basement and falls heavily. Max becomes hysterical and brings her body up. He examines the new incinerator but considers it too small without first dismembering the body. He takes up an axe but is disturbed by a noise outside. The phone picks up a message that a visitor is on her way. Max hastily cleans up and hides the body in a trunk

- He flees through woods and falls in a pond. He cannot start his car and encounters Georgia on her way up to the cabin. She mistakes Max for the photographer she asked Poobah to send

- In his motel room a photographer develops surveillance shots of Max and Rose at the cabin

- Max reaches the saloon and makes a call to Archie. He informs him the job is done, but that his wife's girlfriend turned up. Archie phones the cabin to be answered by Georgia

- Max drinks at the bar and is joined by Shamus Rigby. Max goes to the bathroom where a note is passed demanding a meeting at the motel

- The photographer is Shamus Rigby. He disarms Max and shows how the photographs appear to incriminate him. Max overpowers Shamus but is warned that he has a partner who will reveal all to Dick Bishop. Max is forced to buy his silence with the money he got for the job

- At the cabin Georgia compares herself to photographs of Rose

- Sheriff Archie White visits The Grand Poobah in his club. He demands to know what his wife was doing there. Poobah suggests he learn where she is now

- In the country saloon Max is approached by a dolled-up Georgia

- The Grand Poobah tells Archie of his wife's plot. Reno hands the sheriff photos showing Max with his girl. Archie shields the picture (of Rose) from Poobah

- Gypsy Jack pays off the photographer

- Poobah checks over the photos and sees they are of Rose

- Georgia plies the now penniless Max with drink. He is wary of her husband but is tempted to spend the night

- Reno and Gypsy Jack visit the pawn shop to ask Bowser what his odd job man Shamus is up to. Bowser knows the sheriff has a lover. They show him the picture of his daughter at the cabin

- Georgia drives Max to the cabin. Max realizes her husband is Sheriff Archie White. He tells her Archie has paid him to kill her. They make violent love. Recovering, Georgia lets Max have her ring. A bloodstained Bowser busts in with a shotgun, ready to kill Max. The gun fails to go off and the two struggle. Bowser is killed accidentally. Max finds the case of money under the floor

- Georgia elopes with Max. They stop for gas at the motel. Georgia visits the saloon where Reno and Gypsy Jack quiz the bartender about Shamus

- Max pumps gas and is approached by Archie who wonders why Max has his wife's car, and why she is not dead

- Georgia avoids the thugs in the bar

- Max suggests taking Archie to the cabin to see the body

- Reno and Gypsy Jack find the body of Shamus in his room, killed with the knife hocked to Bowser. They find the rest of the photos from the cabin

- Georgia is stranded at the saloon. She is befriended by Dick Bishop

- Max shows Archie the incinerator, and takes him to the fresh grave dug for Bowser but purportedly where Georgia is buried. Max shows the wedding ring

- Georgia accepts a ride from Dick Bishop

- Archie asks Max about Rose, and is about to kill him, then finds his money gone. He fires a warning shot and accidentally wounds Reno lurking outside. Gypsy Jack disarms Archie and leads him off to the woods as Reno escorts Max back inside. Archie gets the better of Gypsy Jack and returns to shoot Reno. Max gives up the money

- Dick Bishop arrives at the cabin in time to prevent Archie killing Max. There is a stand-off as Archie and Georgia make accusations, while Max protests innocence. Archie tricks Dick and shoots him. Georgia shoots Archie. Rose has been left for dead but recovers consciousness still in the trunk. Jealous Georgia tries to kill her then leaves in fury, not realising the money is left behind. Gypsy Jack returns unharmed from the woods. Max recovers the money and asks to see the Poobah

- Poobah counts the money and gives a third to Max as his father's due

- Max leaves the club
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page 1:

You don't need 'seemingly dead' for Rose Mcfadden, it just telegraphs that she isn't. Better if the light 'falls on her body'; with her disheveled hair and exposed garters, and the man standing ominously, we'd be thinking just one thing. With the hope that an early death preserves her beauty we find when the scene is revisited that she is indeed dead. Then the real surprise even later is that she is not. I don't know what The WAR is (even after reading it) but not unnaturally took from the synopsis - where he is a 'recently retired' veteran, not one recently released - this meant post-WWII. It tied with the mention of garters that somehow placed this in the classic Noir '40s. 'Pullmann' sounds like one of those big old sedans and there were not many clues either way besides the electric doors and the answerphone much later to realize it's not. Maybe you want that ambiguity but I'd like to be sure either way.

From the first page there are lots of short scenes moving the read along, which is great except that the impression seeing the thugs go through the business of arriving, parking, getting in the elevator, getting out, walking through the empty bar and down the corridor to the office will be of impending threat. They enter to: "Well?" and reply, "Nothing." Nothing? Why bother? Poobah sends them straight out again. What is that sequence trying to achieve? The story isn't about the two thugs and there is no reason to track along with them arriving for work other than it's really cool to see these crazy killer dudes in their long black coats.

The Spicy Whiteboy is described as 'high-class' but I wouldn't expect it from the horny goat catchline. Is Little Pinoche a redneck town?

There is some vivid description here, like the topographical map, and barbed-wire whiskers later on, that shows capable writing, yet it seems wasted on style before substance, So far the viewer will be wondering what the guy with the girl's body has to do with things. Only the reader knows he's the name this lot are after.

Page 3:

The sequence ends on "Start with the go-between," and the natural indication is this will be Archie White, as he's next on screen. There isn't any reason not to put his vignette after the thugs visit The General.

There is description of the sheriff's lavish office, but we're only here for this short scene. He could as easily be in his study at home (as he is two scenes later) and get the note at the door. If you produce this yourselves you'll have to decide if it's worth building this set.

It says Archie can handle other men but there is not much show of his power. He seems cuckolded by Georgia when he goes to Poobah for example. He could usefully be seen to run his department as his personal fiefdom, and his political ambitions are going to bring him into conflict with powerful Poobah. All I got was a vain man flirting on the telephone. I guess we're supposed to think he's lovey-dovey with his wife as he eyes the wedding photo. This could better suit the situation if he returned it facing out so he doesn't have to look at it but giving visitors the impresion of a family man.

It may be a detail but I didn't get what the hand-delivered note to Archie was supposed to be. He crumples it up and carelessly tosses it, and that seems an angry or dismissive response. If he used it to light a cigar, then he is both celebrating something and destroying evidence. It's a better way to see the random words "Fickle...solved" before they curl in the ashtray. I'm guessing the 'man' is reporting the death of Max Sr. but I never understood what happened to him or why the General was killed, or where the money in the case came from. Here is the place to plant the seed.

page 6:

'Tobacco brunette' is great. I read meno-play twice before I got the idea. It's forced writing (but fine if a character says it like a weak pun). Nobody wants writers all over a script leaving big muddy bootprints.

page 7:

I don't think the patrolman incident needs the parting shot, it makes her seem petty.

page 10:

There is more forced writing where 'an uppity home sits before a starry sky'. Upscale?

How does CONTINUOUS go from Archie in the study to on top of his wife in the bedroom?

page 12:

We have EXT. FICKLE, SR.'S APARTMENT -- NIGHT as a SILHOUETTED MAN approaches like a new character. The next thing 'Max' walks through the door with his salt and pepper hair, so I thought that was Max Sr., especially because you don't say how old Max Jr. is when we meet him in the intro. When he calls out for Dad I caught up on the idea but there is no need for this sort of confusion, It happens a few times, with 'MAN, only partially visible' in the bar later for instance.

This is Max's second appearance on screen and the inevitable thoughts will be, So who was the girl, is she dead? What is he up to now? as if he has come straight from the opening scene. We might guess this is all flashback but there is no logic. I don't know why you structure it this way except to give the first page a good juicy incident. That's fine but there must be some sense what is going on. So far I have no idea whose story it is or what anyone wants.

As the thugs roll up Reno calls ahead. The idea seems to be that when they ask is he Max Fickle they get the wrong one, but since all Max says is "Who is this?" he could simply be a neighbor or friend. Even if he did say he was Max, the guy that opens the door might say, "Max just got a phone call and ran out." He should more logically open the door to the question, "Max Fickle?" and a gun for an invitation.

Ten seconds is a long time to be looking at a clock on the screen.

page 15:

Ironic that they show concern that Max should not bleed in their car, then pump Sternwood full of lead and toss him in back.

page 18:

Jeronimo Jones is a great name for an underused character. Rose tells him, "Thanks, Mo". Nobody else calls him anything, so on screen that's who he is.

All the names are great, by the way, distinctive and descriptive, (even a reference like 'General' Sternwood).

There is an unresolved scene where Poobah visits Rose in her dressing room, the only indication that there is anything more than a professional relationship between them. You could make it clear that he is besotted by her, and is controlling and violent. He could make an example of someone relatively harmless like Jeronimo to show Archie is playing with fire, and also give Rose a reason to want out.
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page 21:

I didn't get that Max was just recently out of prison, and that's presumably the reason why he couldn't find his father at home. The place should be locked up or something more suspicious for him to know Dad has gone missing (I had absolutely no idea even at the end why or what purpose this character served). Perhaps his father can have made some commitment that binds Max directly, but it doesn't seem right that the debt is passed on in such casual manner. Even if that's how loan sharks work, or Max Sr. stole or embezelled or whatever he did, it dilutes your story and makes things confusing for moviegoers.

Max gets involved by accident (mistaken identity). It would be better if he initiated some event that got out of control and rolled over him, perhaps going to his father's old friend The General when he couldn't find Dad. Some chance remark or misunderstanding could spark the fire and each attempt to put it out fans the flames. The way it is, once his Dad turns up dead Max could just walk away and skip parole when there is nothing to tie him to the disreputable town.

How much does Max need to raise? A 'whopping debt' or 'high society' must mean something.

There isn't much threat in cutting a cadaver, but if The General were alive and begging for mercy you would register Poobah as sadistic (as per the synopsis) if he took delight in a grizly beheading. Pacino's SCARFACE used a similar device. The killing of Sternwood (presumably for lying - surely an innocent mistake - about Max being dead) doesn't serve your story. This could be the first inkling as to what his father was mixed up in, and Max would need answers fast. Of course, he is not yet to know the reason his father's friend had to be offed.

Poobah metaphorically paints Rose as a killer more than once, and it even shakes her, but she has no such instincts, seeming girlishly innocent in her own vampish way. If men are prepared to die for her she can't help it, to be a killer she should manipulate them for her own selfish ends  and drive them onto the rocks.

I think the idea in noir is that the hero falls victim to his fatal flaw - a dame is the net - but we don't have any idea of what Max is about. He hasn't anything at stake and he hasn't far to fall. He's no stranger to the Big House anyway. We get a little idea of his backstory from Dick Bishop. He comes across as a repellant character as we meet him, slurping soup and needling Max, and that's a waste. He should be the mirror opposite (in line with the motif). He wants what Max wants but for very different reasons. They will earn grudging respect. Again, Rose should be the trigger. I'm not sure why Max appeals to him for help to find his father, or how he is resourceful enough to find him for that matter. That's the kind of thing you'd go to the sheriff for, and the kind of thing (bodies in the morgue) they'd come up with. You could make it the quid pro quo Max demands for taking on Archie's job. He's not to know Archie knows more than he says.

Page 28:

Nice touch with Max getting stuck with Bishop's bill, it's spot on for character.

That's good DOUBLE INDEMNITY dialogue where Rose breathes, "It rolls off the tongue nicely, doesn't it?" but Archie tramples that with his crude reply, just in case we don't get it. You can be smarter.

page 35:

I couldn't follow the logic where Poobah warns Bowser off employing Max. Sure, he wants to reserve him as his patsy but there can be machinations to this. Perhaps Bowser says he will send someone around to Max's, then the moment he has gone gets the call. Now when Archie turns up Max is at cross-purposes. He is offered something he can do and he's desperate enough to have to do it, but he has no idea who he is really working for.

I don't know why Archie wanted Georgia killed, there is no pressure at that particular time, though he says the situation is volatile. Perhaps if the election was near and she made an explicit threat to ruin him? Similarly, she should surely tolerate his pecadillos or risk losing her meal ticket. A threat to leave her for Rose might spur her to action.

page 40:

That is some efficient business with the newspaper vendor. If this were nearer the beginning and Max can't grasp the price of smokes and papers we'd easily understand he has been away, perhaps released that very morning. First order of business is finding Dad, and then events gather steam. Seeing the headline would foreshadow events.

There is scope to link Archie and Dick Bishop, in their professional capacities taking the opportunity to work lucrative scams. Archie could do with being perhaps Chief of Police or a DA with more defined political ambition. At the moment he's just a horny middle-aged cop. Why go to Max, who has no special skills? Max needs a bigger reason to get involved than just earning fast money. (He needs to avenge his father.) I don't understand why the gang even need a patsy, there are any number of unsolved murders and as long as Archie establishes his alibi he could ask Poobah to send the boys in - as they eventually do anyway.

page 44:

Why does Rose need money?

page 45:

PIECE-OF-SHIT is fair description and amusing used in the slug line once, but as it became a fixture I found myself thinking not about the story but the writer and his thought process: whether he considered it a risk putting it there, what other alternatives he came up with, and whether it was worth constantly drawing our attention. Why does Max drive a piece of shit? Does he care? Was it shit when he bought it or did it decay while he was in prison? Can he afford better, if not why not? Will the fact that he can't get it started one time have crucial bearing on events? All the reader needs is INT. CAR - DAY and the story.

This kind of thing carries over into the action description, where it begins to obscure the dialogue, which is where the story is told. I'm not 'berating', it's your story and up to you how you tell it. As a writing sample that may be what you want (to notice the writer before the story) and if so it's not easily resisted, but I would rein in the more indulgent tendency to description and just tell it straight so the story can breathe. That's what should get you noticed.

Shamus flicking his tongue is good character observation.

page 49:

Max psyches himself up in the rearview and intones, "Everything we see is just a shadow cast by that which we do not." Huh? Where did that come from? What is it supposed to mean? Has he picked up one of Shamus's gnomic utterances? Is this the 'madness' we were promised? Here is Max ready to do something that will change his life completely, and we need to look at this moment and see the story take the razor-sharp turn.

page 50:

I didn't buy that Rose would take an instant shine to Max and offer him a drink to try to seduce him. She could jeopardize everything with Archie for a roll in the hay, even if Max was an irrisistible specimen of manhood, which he's not.

It might help if it was Max, not Poobah, who saw Rose perform her nightclub act, since he must have left about that time. From the shadows he would be mesmerized, and perhaps the two thugs could warn him to keep his nose out. Still, it would keep his finger off the trigger when he arrives at the cabin and comes face to face.

"I believe our shadows dance when we are not looking" is another line that sounds more profound than it is, and it's fine coming from kooky tipsy Rose, so tie it in somehow as the trigger that lets the scales fall from Max's eyes. Something Bowser said? You could leave the scene after Max tells her, "Daddy wants you dead."

So we've seen Rose dead at the beginning, and here he is about to kill her. Now is the time to fire off all those double- and triple-crosses you promised, and we get to see what has REALLY been going on.

You don't need the (*NOTE -- ) to help the dozy director along after Rose falls down the stairs. From a story point of view, it would be better in this incident if Max really did think he'd killed her (blank bullets or something) then the cut to this shot would tell us everything up to then is not what we thought. Better if Max only appeared to be the potential patsy, but kicks his secret scheme into action. He knows there is a photographer on his tail and this is staged for his benefit. He has a photographer of his own out there since he has so much in common with odd job man Shamus. Rose will need to be in on it with motivation to match his. Otherwise, what is the significance of opening on this scene and relating everything leading up to it? Only if this is the very moment he switches the points to set the train on a different track.
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pp 54-59:

I don't know what Max thinks he's doing. Why the hysterical laughter? Why put on his stern face?  Why the wild flight through the woods and why have him swim in the pond? I can't see Humphrey Bogart acting like this or even George Clooney, so noir it ain't but it is slightly reminiscent of a fairytale.

Max's first encounter with Georgia should be a key moment in the script. Both are being played by Archie and will depend on each other to come through. Yet she jumps back in her car and carries on toward the cabin. This would be the perfect time for them to concoct their revenge.

page 61:

There is some cool dialogue (e.g. "Prevents bloodstains") between Max and the bartender that seems to be saying something but is actually saying just what it says. "I fell in a puddle" is laconic understatement except that he really did, the big clod. The usual thing would have him dive into a river to drag someone out, and then shrug it off like this.

page 64:

In the context 'bowels of the bar' is witty imagery but perhaps this is the kind of unnecessary scene that demonstrates style over substance. He could as easily keep a room at the motel and find a note under the door.

page 69:

I'd guess you have worked this over a few times changing Bowser to Grand Poobah for some reason, but in places it's a mess. It even looks like Bowser is playing chess with Poobah in his office.

Why does Georgia come on to Max? Just to get back at Archie and prove to herself she's still got it? If she has to pay it only confirms that she hasn't. She ought to be in search of a capable man to protect her from Archie, once she knows he's coming after her. Besides, doesn't she still think Max is Poobah's photographer?

Who took the photo of Max and Rose at the cabin that Reno gave to Archie? They have their photographer down in the car park and then visit Bowser to learn Shamus is supposedly doing the same job. Someone was there because Georgia asked Poobah to set it up, so presumably Poobah told Bowser to engage Rigby. Is the young man the partner he mentioned? Why ask Bowser what Rigby is doing if Poobah engaged him and the job is well in hand? That was in the scene where Bowser appears to be with Poobah but is not, so I was thoroughly confused.

page 78:

Gypsy Jack reaches into his coat and Bowser thinks he's about to be shot. Isn't this the very thing Wrinkly Eyes with his shotgun and steel door is supposed to prevent?

page 81:

As Max reaches the cabin with Georgia the pieces fall into place (for him) and there is the tricksy but rather too obvious V.O. transition. The whole femme fatale thing should be either Rose or Georgia, and this the very moment the script takes a twist. These two have each been played, and both are in danger,

Did you need to let on that Rose is Bowser's daughter so soon? (Their names are spelled differently at first.) It makes things a little deeper when he gets that condor nose seeing the photo. It would be a nice reveal when he burst in on Max with great fury and righteous anger. That needs to be Rose in bed with him though, or Bowser should have reason to think Max killed his daughter, else there is no reason to attack Max. He grabs the antique shotgun as a weapon but what if it wasn't there? Shouldn't he have kept his knife instead of leaving it in Shamus?

Why did he kill Shamus?

page 85:

(Bowser attacks Max with the shotgun but then it's Archie who is struggling with him O.S.)

"Does Howdy Doody got wooden balls," is too slick and clever here, when a simple "yes" would do.

Georgia teams up with Max for no good reason. It might help if she discovered Archie's infidelity at the same moment Max finds he's the patsy, right after they have their fling in the cabin. Things are bad for them both but now they've got each other.

page 97:

"What makes anyone special? Everything and nothing, I suppose." Now it's Georgia's turn for false profundity. It wouldn't be bad if one character spoke in platitudes but they all do. You've got a bunch of colorful characters up to no good and firing slugs of snappy dialogue at each other, yet far from being intricate and involving it's confusing and in the end unsatisfactory. This could have been so good as you obviously have the skills. You've trimmed description, now comb through dialogue.

Why would Dick Bishop go off with Georgia apart from the obvious? What is he doing at the bar in the first place? Again, you could dismiss all this as mere logic problems but none of the characters seem believable (despite what that industry reader thought about 'development') and if I can't believe in any of the characters, why watch them do whatever it is they are supposed to be doing for an hour and a half? Convince me.

page 99:

Reno gets wounded in a complete accident. Even if comical it stretches credibility,

I couldn't see why Gypsy Jack escorted Archie away to the woods for a talk. "Show me this grave" might do it. Archie somehow gets the drop on Jack, but it's possibly better if this is resourceful Max unexpectedly returning from the woods in disguise. We'd assume he's overpowered Gypsy Jack but it could turn out fast talking got him off. It's amusing but again incredible that Jack gets shot in the head and suffers only a headache and a hole in his plate. Is the metal part of his head empty? Reno gets killed, so perhaps he can have been working a double-cross on Poobah, in tight with Archie, who wants to take over, and loyal Jack has to cut him off. If you leave it the way you have it then even if Jack is left for dead, Max could perform some action that saves him and then Jack owes him enough not to kill him as would surely be his intention seeing his dead partner. I don't really know what the thugs were doing up at the cabin since they only wandered up to see what they could see.

Archie becomes a vengeful killing machine, cruelly shooting down Reno and then forcing Max to hand over the money. Ideally, instead of limply arriving at the scene as it winds down, Georgia should be in the firing line with new buddy Max, both at the mercy of the crazed Archie and ready to put a stop to him.

As it is, Max seems too passive throughout. By the end he is practically sniveling "I was going to bring the money back/I didn't kill anybody" but he could be shown by that scene to have been coolly playing everybody all along with a few twists that unwind right here.

THE USUAL SUSPECTS opens on a dramatic event that is given a different perspective by events leading up to it. In the same way, you have your title character discover a body and then the first half is flashback (although until the dead girl walks into a scene it isn't apparent as such). Make it much tighter plotwise. I couldn't see even a double-cross much less a triple. I didn't see anybody's motivation except Max got threatened over a debt he knew nothing about. We never learn what Max has done to get jail time, but perhaps he can have taken the rap for his Dad in poor health. Max Sr. has worked out a scheme to provide for his son posthumously, and set up this chase. Max's surface goal is to find his missing Dad, but on the way he exposes the killers, gets - or walks away from - the girl and comes out with the reward. That's not far from your ending anyway.

If you are going to produce it yourself then you don't need criticism. You could leave things just as they are, but be aware some things aren't clear because of your writing style, and I don't mean the typos. (Unless things are very different where you are, that's a marquee that burns outside the club.)

These are only suggestions. There is a lot to enjoy as it stands, yet there is that one big weight dragging it down. You must have thought hard about it and maybe even started with alternatives, and for some reason thought it distinctive or witty or some such, but I took several nibbles before swimming away and only came back because this is a small pond. For your own sakes, change that title.
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chapelgrovefilms
Posted: July 17th, 2007, 11:05pm Report to Moderator
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I've been posting my thoughts about this script in another forum, and was asked to move those posts here.  Man!  I wish I'd read NW3s posts before now -- it would've saved me a lot of typing.

NW3, you have excellent insights into story and structure and characters and such.  I really can't add a single thing to what you've said.  You also have a MUCH better knack for delivering criticism with a positive, supportive flow, encouraging the writer rather than discouraging.  My hat's off to you!

Since I did tell Eric I would copy/paste my comments into this forum, I'll go ahead and do that.  But I think NW3's insights and advice are much better than anything else I could add.

And Eric, contrary to what you might think, I DO like your writing -- I'm just not a fan of this particular script.  You've got talent, but this one doesn't do it for me.  Part of the problem might be that I'm just not a big fan of this genre, so maybe I shouldn't even be critiquing this script.  Still, most of my criticisms (I think) relate to the scripts mechanics, rather than the talent or the story.  Not all, but most.
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chapelgrovefilms
Posted: July 17th, 2007, 11:06pm Report to Moderator
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I don't understand why bother with the opening scene? It only seems to be a few seconds long, and doesn't seem to have a point. What is there to grab the viewer's attention? A 'seemingly' dead body? No matter how attractive the victim might have been, nobody cares about her (yet). I just don't get the hook.

"Pullman four-door" -- a railroad car??? Might help to say "Mercedes Pullman four-door", if that's the car you mean.

Mention the long black overcoats in the first description of Reno and Gypsy Jack.

Too much description of set dressings that are irrelevant to the story.

A man comes to Archie's secretary and wants to hand a note to Archie personally because 'it's important' -- yet we don't get to see Archie go to the outer office, meet the man, and receive the note. We just have to sit looking at Archie's empty office -- where nothing is going on -- until he returns. That bothers me. Any particular reason?

I can't visualize seeing any readable words on a piece of paper that has been crumpled up and tossed at a trash can.

It reads a bit more like a book than a script to me...

"Although it seems that Georgia’s menopause has struck years early, it is obvious that her menopause is about to turn into meno-play." How is a director going to convey this information to an audience???

"Archie is atop Georgia: his face labored, her’s bored." I think you need to describe a little more of what Archie is actually doing. Could be he's just lying there. Or he could be....busy.

I'm confused about the era this story takes place in. Everyone talks, for the most part, like they're out of an old noir-style period. And yet once in awhile someone says something like "Be quick about your bad self.", which is a decidedly modern turn of a phrase. Also, everybody seems to talk the same -- like out of an old noir movie. Everybody has personality, but they're all the same personality. Nobody seems to have any unique, interesting or entertaining quirks. I have that problem with my characters' dialogue too.

Some of the names and things leave me cold. "The Spicy Whiteboy"? "HOTTER THAN A THREE-PECKERED BILLY GOAT"? "The Grand Poobah"? Makes the whole thing seem cheesy, in my opinion. But that's just me.

"Better men than you haven’t walked out of this office after a crack like that." It's an uncomfortable line -- doesn't flow well. Not sure how to fix it, but it sticks out glaringly, in my opinion.

I agree with Poobah -- why on Earth would Georgia go to a dangerous scum like him if all she needs is someone to take some compromising photos? It doesn't make sense, and I don't understand her explanation.

Well, talk about not caring about any of the characters.... I'm hitting page 20, and if a bus hit the lot of them I wouldn't care at all. I didn't care when the General got killed. I didn't care when Max Fickle got caught by Reno and Gypsy Jack. I don't care that Archie has a girlfriend on the side. I don't care about Georgia. Who is the 'hero' of this thing supposed to be? There doesn't seem to be a savory character in the lot.

"Bowser pulls a bell from is pocket and RINGS it." Who the heck is Bowser??? He seems to have appeared out of nowhere.

Poobah and his boys have been looking for someone named Maxwell Fickle -- so when Max Jr. tells them his name, why would Poobah say "Maxwell Fickle, Jr.? Sounds like the name of a faggot sailor" as though he'd never heard such an odd-sounding name before???

Then Poobah says "Maxwell Fickle, Jr. Then your father must be Maxwell Fickle, Sr.?" Ummm...duh.

Backtracking for a second -- how is the audience supposed to know that the apartment Max Jr entered actually belonged to Max Sr.?

"Max watches Reno root through a file cabinet." I think you need to describe Reno walking over to the file cabinet, wherever it's located, and opening it.

"DO NOT BE AFRAID OF SUDDEN TERROR, NOR OF TROUBLE FROM THE WICKED WHEN IT COMES." That's a lot to expect an audience to be able to read off a tiny piece of paper from a fortune cookie. Especially on the small screen.

It doesn't seem well established that Archie is an elected official -- at least, not before Georgia makes a passing remark to Poobah about it. I wasn't absolutely sure at that point that she was talking about Archie, since it hadn't been established prior to that exactly what it is that Archie does. Unless I missed it.

BTW, I don't think it's necessary to put establishing shots in the script as scenes. Establishing shots are a given -- they might get put into a shooting script, but not into the preliminary script. Unless, of course, something happens in that shot or it is needed to establish something other than the location for the scene that follows. For instance, if Reno and Gypsy Jack were sitting in a car outside of Bowser's Pawn Shop, watching the building, then that would be important. But just establishing that we're at Bowser's Pawn Shop is unnecessary.

You don't describe Max entering the pawn shop. He's just suddenly there.
The first scene in Bowser's Pawn Shop seems pointless and ends abruptly. It doesn't seem adequate.

Okay, I'm up to pg 35 and I still don't know who I'm supposed to care about. I still don't care about any of 'em.

Hmmmm....Bowser the pawnbroker says to Max that Poobah says Max should go home. Consensus seems to be Poobah plans to kill Max. So why does Max just obligingly trot on home and wait for the killers to show up? I know I wouldn't.

A BOOK called "How To Get Rid Of A Body"??? No offense man, but puhhhleezzzze!

"Archie hands Max an envelope. Max slips the picture out. It’s the advertisement of Rose, which was switched out, apparently unbeknownst to Archie. Max slips it back in and sets it on the counter." How do we know it was supposed to be a photo of Archie's wife??? Why should we think it's supposed to be anything different than what it is -- a photo of Rose???

"Why not? She sings outta tune." Archie's wife is Georgia. Georgia sings??? Since when? We know Rose sings, but never heard that about Georgia. I'm confused!

"Fifty-four cents? Since when does a paper cost fifty-four cents?" "Twenty-nine cents tax?" So Max doesn't know how much a newspaper costs??? What's the point of this?

Okay, I've hit page 43 and that's about all I can do tonight. I still don't know who I'm supposed to care about -- I still don't care about anybody. I don't find the plot compelling after nearly 45 minutes. I guess Max needs to get money before the end of the weekend or else he's dead, but I don't care if he succeeds or fails. Anyway, I'll pick up tomorrow where I left off.
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chapelgrovefilms
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Picking back up on page 43...

Did Rose take the $200 from Bowser or not? It's not clear. What was with the pearl handled knife? Where did Rose get it? What's its significance? And other than identifying Bowser as Rose's father, what's the point of this scene?

"The whole of the setting longs for a past that never really existed." Again, I don't understand what this means or how the director is supposed to convey it to an audience.

"...an impending look of doom across his face." I think you mean "a look of impending doom".

Pg. 49 -- how can it go from Max driving his car to Max playing solitaire on the hood of his car, and the scene be labelled "CONTINUOUS"??? Time has clearly passed between those two scenes. Better to slug it "EXT. COCOON CIRCLE - LATER".

"The ACCELERATION of a taxi kicks up dust as it propels toward the cabin. Rose exits the taxi." Ummm...does the taxi STOP first? Or does Rose leap out at speed and roll a few dozen yards? Inquiring minds want to know.

MAX: "Everything we see is just a shadow cast by that which we do not." Huh??? What the...? Max is sitting all alone on a deserted road in the middle of nowhere, and out of the blue he decided to wax poetic with this cryptic comment? I don't get it.

ROSE: "I believe our shadows dance when we’re not looking." This comes completely out of left field. Is she drunk? High on drugs? The statement makes no sense in the context of the conversation, as near as I can tell.

Pg. 51 -- I can't envision a piece of furniture coming between Rose and the gun in Max's hand in such a way that it prevents her from seeing it. I'm sure it could be done, but I'm just not able to see it. Better, I think, to just have Max turn slightly sideways to hide the gun from her.

Pg. 53 -- "She goes to the table to refill." Why? There's been no indication she drank the last bit she poured into her glass.

Pg. 60 -- How did Max get the car started???

Why did you bother to give Shamus Rigby a name? Since his name is never said in dialogue, the audience isn't going to recognize it in the credits.

"Shamus drops both guns. Max secures his gun..." C'mon...let's have a little description of action here! How about "Max makes a dive and grabs his gun before it hits the floor."? Something... "Max secures his gun..." makes it sound like Max stowed it in a locker and pocketed the key.

Pg. 67 - MAX: "Even with those pictures, it’d take a helluva lawyer to prove guilt. There isn’t one drop of blood in that cabin. Not one drop." Well, no....but there's a dead body stuffed into a trunk just sitting there. Who needs blood?

For some reason I always envisioned Georgia as being glamorously beautiful -- until I got to pg 68, where she's described as 'plain'. It would be good to establish this from the very beginning -- stress the contrast between the 'plain' Georgia and the gorgeous and sexy Rose.

Also Pg 68 -- Georgia "tries to seduce her own reflection, but can’t even sell herself on herself." You need to describe the actions involved with this in detail -- I have no idea how this would happen on-screen. Show me.

A lot of mirror-breaking going on with Georgia and Archie, eh?

Okay, now I learn that Archie is a sheriff -- on pg 69. Could we establish that the first time we meet Archie? (Or did I miss it?)

The scene where Archie goes to ask Poobah why Georgia came to see him seems pointless. He gets no answers, and the question Poobah asks -- "Do you know where your wife is right now?" -- is pretty pointless. Of course Archie knows where she is -- he called the cabin and she answered the phone. So I don't see why this scene is relevant.

I assume Max is beginning to feel the effects of the alcohol when Georgia approaches him in the bar. Why not let that show a little? GEORGIA: "I’m Georgia." MAX: "Georgia, huh? (sings offkey) Just an old sweet sooonnng.... (beat) Got a cigarette, Georgia?"

The whole Rose death scene seems misplaced. It seems like something that would occur near the end of the movie, not 2/3 of the way through. But we'll see what comes after...

A number of the scenes don't seem to have interesting endings. I like a scene that ends with a sort of 'cliffhanger' -- something that piques your interest, makes you wonder what's going to develop from it. The scene at the bottom of pg 71 just ends with Georgia saying "Because you look like you’ve been up all night doing something very bad, or, perhaps, planning on doing something very bad. And I find that terribly interesting." And while that's fairly interesting dialogue, it's not really a good way (in my opinion) to end the scene.

Once again, in the scene on pg 72, suddenly we have a line of dialogue from Bowser, when I didn't even know he was in the room.

"Added to that, you’re so damn near close to sitting on my lap that someone could mistake you for a cherry on a sundae." This line doesn't make sense to me. Nobody could literally mistake her for a cherry on a sundae just because she's sitting close to him. Maybe something like "Added to that, you're so damn near close to sitting on my lap that we look like Siamese twins joined at the hip." Or "....that you can probably tell me how much change is in my pocket." Or "....that I'm starting to wish you WERE." I dunno....just spitballing.

"This dress doesn't have pockets" doesn't sound like much of a 'secret'.

"Max reluctantly sits back down." A beautiful woman just told Max she wants to have sex with him, and will PAY him for it. Why is he 'reluctant'???

Pg 78 - going back to the thing about how Shamus Rigby never said his name (so the audience doesn't KNOW his name), now Reno asks Bowser "You still got Shamus Rigby on a leash?" If I'm in the audience, I'm asking myself "Who the heck is Shamus Rigby???"

"Start spilling your guts, or we’re gonna start spilling ’em for you." Good line! Actually, there are a lot of good lines in this -- I'm just not calling attention to them. But this one's especially nifty. (Although I probably would've written it as "...or we'll start spilling 'em for you." But again, that's just me.)

"He misses once -- strike one. Again -- strike two. Again -- clipping Max’s shoulder: a foul ball." This would be cute in a book, but is totally useless in a script. It can't possibly be conveyed to an audience.

"Max and Georgia pull up the floorboards and hit pay-dirt." Two questions. #1 - Why on earth are they pulling up the floorboards? and #2 - What 'pay-dirt' did they hit?

"What would you have us do? Leave his body rotting in the house." Ummmm...hate to mention it, but they did leave Rose's body 'rotting in the house'.

"...and hadn’t seen any action since shower time in the WAR." How does Georgia even know what 'the WAR' is?

Okay, I'm up to pg 88 and stopping for tonight. Still don't care what happens to anybody, but at least now I think I know who I'm supposed to care about -- Max, right? More tomorrow...
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