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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Thriller Scripts  ›  Unforgettable - 7WC Moderators: bert
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  Author    Unforgettable - 7WC  (currently 27993 views)
Dressel
Posted: April 7th, 2011, 1:00pm Report to Moderator
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Jeff,

Finished the script and...it's really just not for me.  It basically continued at the same pace and I continued to have the same problems with it.  I didn't really care for the characters, the mystery, anything.  And like I said before, the flashbacks were just too daunting and took away from any thrill the script might have.  The script wasn't as much about a character uncovering a mystery (finding clues, etc), as much as just waiting to have the next flashback, which would always conveniently give him the right amount of information when he needed it.

This seems to have worked for some people (although a lot seem to be complaining about the abundance of flashbacks), but it didn't work for me.

-Matt


CHECK OUT MY WEB SERIES

The Pilot is Dead

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Dreamscale
Posted: April 7th, 2011, 1:03pm Report to Moderator
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OK, Matt.  Sorry you didn't get into it.

Thanks for the read anyways.

Take care.
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rc1107
Posted: May 30th, 2011, 12:47am Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff.

Lol.  I can't wait til you post a new feature so I have a better chance of being one of the first 50 people to respond.  Needless to say, I didn't read through every post, but I did scan through them and got the gist of everything that's been beaten to death (like the flashbacks, which I didn't mind.), and hopefully, I'll have something new to add that didn't grab anybody else's attention.

First off, before I get to my notes while I was reading, I'll say that I did really like the story and it was a great example of excellent pacing.  Even with the large amount of flashbacks, the scenes were snappy enough to keep the story going at a furious pace for me, making me want to read what was going to happen next.  (Although I did do a very good job of guessing.)

All right, so onto the notes:


-  Pgs. 12 and 13  -  Don't know if I like Addinton actually being brought to tears about his mother before he's about to inquire about a case.  It seems like he would've dealt with that issue before even meeting with Sandiford.  In fact, if Addington's mother or her situation is going to come into play later (like I think it will), it might be better off if Addinton meets Sandiford in his mother's room.  That way, we'll see for ourselves his mom is sick and I think Addinton's more likely to have his tears come out actually in her presense.  Just a thought, though.

     (Note:  After reading on, found out his mother does come into play later.)

-  Does Addinton really need permission to check Jack's credit card transactions?  Or is he just being polite?

Which brings up an interesting topic I'd like to mention.  I think ALL of your characters have been too polite with each other so far, and I've come to notice in a lot of your dialogue (not just this story, either), you put a lot of your own personal good manners in your characters, and it's starting not to ring true in their voice.  

Especially with Jack on page 13 and his answers to being questioned.  He's in a very confused state, so would he really answer with "Of course not", "That's all I can remember now, I'M AFRAID", "Of course", "Perfect.  Thank you", and another "Of course".  And Addington even says "Of course" somewhere in there, too.  You can make the case that Jack is just superfriendly, but so far, all of the characters have had the same polite mannerisms.  And all of the characters having that same exact mannerism just rings false to me.

     (Note:  Reading on, every character has multiple examples of super politeness.  While I still think the dialogue is a strength in this story, it would still make it all that much better if every character didn't sound the same in that manner.)

-  Something's not jiving right about Mitch.  There's something wrong here.

     (Note:  I think too much is given away about Mitch too early.  Having him actually show up at the hospital and talk Mitch into leaving would hide your intentions with him a little bit longer so his character could develop a little more without us being suspicious of him from the get-go.)

-  More politeness and even more politeness, still!  And in a police station, at that!  This is starting to cross into a Fantasy Sci-Fi of the perfect Utopian people if I were just reading the dialogue and not the descriptions.

-  Pg 31  -  Lol.  A nice little homage to 'Pulp Fiction' there, with the 'hand cannon' reference, plus how Julie is sometimes referred to as Jules.

-  Pg 34  -  No question mark after 'You see patients just take off like this'

-  Pg 41  -  You say the Mercedes locks its tires up, which implies to me it tries to stop.  Then, later, Jack says they never even tried to stop.

-  Pg 46  -  'Ah, the plot thickens.'    -    LOL.  That line is just a huge pet peeve of mine and I hate it.  It's 1,000 times worse than ever putting a 'we see' in a description.  It always pulls me right out of the story when I see it and it actually makes me realize I'm reading instead of being involved in the story.  (And I was involved.)  I know the plot thickened!  I read it myself!  I don't need it reinforced that the story has just gotten another layer of mystery added to it!  Lol.  Instead of writing:

                                   ADDINTON
                      Ah, the plot has thickened.

You might as well have written:

                                   JEFF BUSH
                      Ah, the plot has thickened.

It pulled me out of the story just as easily.


-  Pg. 50  -  'Aright then'    -    Should be either 'Alright' or 'All right'.  Or, if he's talking ghetto, it should be   a'ight    or if he's talking thug, it should be    a'ite    (Not that Addington sounds thug to me, or anything.  Just sayin', yo.)

-  Pg. 51  -  I doubt that the cops would encourage Jack and Mitch to perform their own investigation in the first place, especially knowing now about Jack's instability and drug addiction and them wondering why Mitch is trying to avoid them in the first place.

     (Note:  This is where I figured out that Mitch didn't exist.  I didn't know exactly in what capacity he didn't exist, whether he was a multiple personality of Jack's or just a figment of his imagination, (and I was leaning toward multiple personality because of how Mitch was registered at the hotel or wherever), but I knew he didn't exist at that point.)  (In fact, I really thought what was going to happen was, since besides the cops, there's no one to really root for in this, you'd turn Julie into somebody good because I thought that she was only having an affair with Jack's multiple personality, Mitch.  And we'd feel sorry for her because her death would be in vain, since she was only ever sleeping with her own husband.  That's what I thought was going to happen, anyway.)

-  Pg. 65  -  Lol.  It's been a couple years because I've become more of an online player since then, but I remember $5000 fitting pretty tidy in a managable wad.  I don't think $10,000 would exactly equal a 'mountain' of money piled high on a table.  (Unless the casino paid them off in $20's.  In which case, I'd be pretty pissed.)


     One thing I don't really dig about the story is how easily Jack's memory can be triggered, just by the mention of something.  Usually, if somebody can bury their trauma and retrieve it that easily, then everytime Jack closes a door, he should be remembered of his son.  Not to mention, Addinton sounds like he's smart enough of a cookie to realize this also, and should question Jack all in one setting, rather than taking his time and letting Jack roam around the island doing whatever he wants to do.  Seems a little off to me there.

-  Pg. 92  -  The whole thing between Glenville and Shauntee seems a little too over the top and, although I enjoy it, a bit gratuitous.  But it just doesn't add anything to the story in my opinion, except for some lovely visuals of Rihanna nude.  (I pictured Rihanna in Shauntee's role since she's from Barbados.)


Well, those were my notes I took while I was reading.

Like I said, I did enjoy it, especially the pacing.  I can't call it a white-knuckled page turner since I read it on my computer screen, but I can call it a white-fingered scroller.  (Lol.  I don't know if 'white-fingered scroller' sounds like a compliment to you, but I meant it as one.)

There were just those few problems I mentioned, about his great memory-retrieval considering his amnesia throughout and the 'Ah, the plot thickens'. (lol, the two things that stuck out for me the most.)  But overall, I think this was definately a success, and I'm not speaking only as a 7 week challenge, but as a story in general, no matter if you even had a year to put this together, I still thought it was something worthy and definately something I'd be interested in seeing, especially because I was interested in the location.

- Mark


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Dreamscale
Posted: May 30th, 2011, 2:34pm Report to Moderator
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Mark, thanks so much for the read and review.  Your feedback is much appreciated.

I don’t know why I didn’t send you the revised version…oh well, no big deal, but there are a few minor changes, and 1 is quite important, which I’ll get to after I hear back from you with responses to some questions I have for you.  Anyway, I’ll address your comments and maybe ask you a few more questions to help with the final version, I’m hoping to finish next month.

Cool, glad the pacing worked for you.  There are a few long scenes and I was worried things were moving a little slow early on, but that’s kind of how I set up my scripts…always backloaded.

We’ll see how good a job of guessing you did, when I reveal a few things that you may not have gotten…I’m not sure…should be interesting…


“Pgs. 12 and 13  -  Don't know if I like Addinton actually being brought to tears about his mother before he's about to inquire about a case. “ – I hear ya.  I was trying to show that Addinton is an all around  good guy, and loves his Mum, and is way more than just a cardboard cop.

“Does Addinton really need permission to check Jack's credit card transactions?  Or is he just being polite?” – Well, first of all, he is very polite, and keep in mind that Jack is not under any real suspicion at this point, because there isn’t any evidence of a crime, even.

“Which brings up an interesting topic I'd like to mention.  I think ALL of your characters have been too polite with each other so far, and I've come to notice in a lot of your dialogue (not just this story, either), you put a lot of your own personal good manners in your characters, and it's starting not to ring true in their voice.” – Hmmm, interesting…very interesting.  First of all, the Bajans are a very polite people, of English descent, meaning not only polite, but also very proper.  I spent a week and a half there, and saw this first hand.  They are very friendly, very polite, and very proper.  Now, it’s funny you say that all the characters are too polite, cause everyone else said they thought the characters were all complete unlikable assholes.  Are you only referring to the Bajans, or Jack, Julie, and Mitch, as well?

“Especially with Jack on page 13 and his answers to being questioned.  He's in a very confused state, so would he really answer with "Of course not", "That's all I can remember now, I'M AFRAID", "Of course", "Perfect.  Thank you", and another "Of course".  And Addington even says "Of course" somewhere in there, too.  You can make the case that Jack is just superfriendly, but so far, all of the characters have had the same polite mannerisms.  And all of the characters having that same exact mannerism just rings false to me.”

Again, very interesting, as everyone else hates Jack and does not think he’s a nice guy at all.  I actually like hearing this.  I could change “Of course” to “Sure”.  I’ll check it out.

“(Note:  Reading on, every character has multiple examples of super politeness.  While I still think the dialogue is a strength in this story, it would still make it all that much better if every character didn't sound the same in that manner.)”

I’ll read through it again and see if I agree, but you are right…I like writing nice characters who don’t always do nice things.

“(Note:  I think too much is given away about Mitch too early.  Having him actually show up at the hospital and talk Mitch into leaving would hide your intentions with him a little bit longer so his character could develop a little more without us being suspicious of him from the get-go.)”

Others have also suggested this, but it’s not possible…literally not possible.  I’ll get into why later, as I mentioned earlier, I don’t think you completely understand the situation, even though you think you do, which is something I’m going to ask for your help on, later.  Also, as I’ve said a number of times, it was not my intent to make Mitch out to be an “innocent” character.  The twist I was after is of a different nature.

“More politeness and even more politeness, still!  And in a police station, at that!”

Really?  I don’t see that at all.  But again, these are all Bajans you’re referring to, and this is how they communicate with each other.  There is some playful joking around and some sexual innuendos thrown in with Glenville, Addinton, Shauntee, and even Orlando.

“Pg 31  -  Lol.  A nice little homage to 'Pulp Fiction' there, with the 'hand cannon' reference, plus how Julie is sometimes referred to as Jules.”

I can’t take credit for that, as it was unintentional, but Pulp Fiction is definitely one of my favorite movies.  OK, question for you.  Did the Vegas Flashback work for you and do you understand why it’s in there now that you know the entire story?  Also, how’d you like my favorite line of dialogue of all time, spoken by Alexis in the shower?  Many have asked if it was a typo, and I always tell them it was completely intentional.

“Pg 34  -  No question mark after 'You see patients just take off like this” – Thanks, but already corrected.

“Pg 41  -  You say the Mercedes locks its tires up, which implies to me it tries to stop.  Then, later, Jack says they never even tried to stop.” – Jack didn’t see the actual accident, just the aftermath.  He’s referring to the fact that the driver didn’t stop to see what the damage was, just drove off to escape.

“Pg 46  -  'Ah, the plot thickens.'    -    LOL.  That line is just a huge pet peeve of mine and I hate it.” – Funny, I’ve never heard that before, Mark.  I can tell you’re serious about this, though.  IMO, I really wasn’t trying to tell the readers anything like that, with that line of dialogue, I was merely showing that Addinton has history with Woody.  Hell, I can pull that line out if it’s that offensive.  Glad you brought it up.

“Pg. 50  -  'Aright then” – Damn good catch!  That is a typo and it was undiscovered up until now.  Nice, thanks!

“ Pg. 51  -  I doubt that the cops would encourage Jack and Mitch to perform their own investigation in the first place…” – Good point, but I needed to split them up and this seemed to work best.

“Note:  This is where I figured out that Mitch didn't exist.  I didn't know exactly in what capacity he didn't exist, whether he was a multiple personality of Jack's or just a figment of his imagination, (and I was leaning toward multiple personality because of how Mitch was registered at the hotel or wherever), but I knew he didn't exist at that point.)” – OK, Mark, What do you mean here?  What caused you to think this?  And are you saying after finishing, you still believe this?  More on this later…

“Pg. 65  -  …I don't think $10,000 would exactly equal a 'mountain' of money piled high on a table.  (Unless the casino paid them off in $20's.  In which case, I'd be pretty pissed.)” – HaHa…well, remember, Jack says it’s at least $10,000, and this is not all casino money…this is money they took from Nick and Joe, who were trying to rob them, as well as whatever they won, but I do understand that the visual description is definitely an exaggeration.


“One thing I don't really dig about the story is how easily Jack's memory can be triggered, just by the mention of something.” – Something many have said, as well.  But, now that you know how it all plays out, do you think Jack really had amnesia?  Or do you think he was playing around the whole time, using the amnesia angle to protect himself?  Or maybe a little of each?  

“Pg. 92  -  The whole thing between Glenville and Shauntee seems a little too over the top and, although I enjoy it, a bit gratuitous.  But it just doesn't add anything to the story in my opinion, except for some lovely visuals of Rihanna nude.  (I pictured Rihanna in Shauntee's role since she's from Barbados.)”

DAMNIT, Mark!!!   Others have said the same thing, and I totally do not agree.  I do agree with Rihanna being cast as Shauntee, as she is a total babe.   Here’s what I was after with Shauntee – First of all, I think she’s a great character…she’s hot, she’s funny, she’s cool, and she provides some great T & A of the variety that you rarely see in films.  But more importantly, her character brings a sense of reality and likability to Glenville’s character.  It gives him life outside of just being a cop…he’s got something to live for, and hopefully, you were rooting for him to survive.  And finally, you know me, I’m a fucking stickler for details, and when my storylines converge at the exact time they need to, I make sure there are onscreen reasons why they are converging at that exact time.  Why else wouldn’t Glenville be with Addinton when he arrived at the gully?  And if I can throw out some great, but still classy T &A in doing so, I say damn you all who oppose it!!!  

I’m glad you liked it, Mark, and I appreciate the compliments very much, but I have a sneaky suspicion you didn’t quite get exactly what went down, or the overall theme at play here…maybe I’m wrong, but let’s see.

1)      So, what’s the deal with Mitch?
2)     What’s the deal with Addinton’s Mum and the recurring dragonfly references?
3)     What was the point of the bookended montages?
4)     How did the Vegas Flashback come into play with the Harrison’s Cave scenes?
5)     Did Jack kill anyone in the present time line?  Did he try to kill anyone in the present time line?

Let me know your thoughts, my friend.  I want this all to be clear enough to comprehend, although I think you know a little ambiguity is always my friend.

Thanks again for the great notes and helpful feedback.   Enjoy the Holiday.
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rc1107
Posted: May 30th, 2011, 9:37pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff.

Ahh.  Finally, a chance to sit down and relax for the night.  All right, I'll go down the list from the top.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Now, it’s funny you say that all the characters are too polite, cause everyone else said they thought the characters were all complete unlikable assholes.  Are you only referring to the Bajans, or Jack, Julie, and Mitch, as well?


With the too polite thing, I was mainly referring to the fact that, as I read EVERY character's dialogue, I heard your own personal voice and polite mannerisms in all of them.  (Maybe not so much Julie, as I think you did a good job with her bitchy attitude).  In other words, the way you've written posts and PM's to me, is the same voice I heard all the Bajans' and Jack and Mitch's dialogue in my head.  Maybe I'm just looking at the words too close and how they're used, or maybe it's because I've been honing in explicitly on dialogue myself as of lately, but they all seemed to have that same polite mannerism.  Yes, Jack and Mitch were assholes in their actions, (it took a little while for me to figure out Jack was an asshole), and all your characters have very different personalities, but they still spoke very friendly, and the Bajan's spoke with that same mannerism.  I don't know if that clarifies anything.  It's not anything major in the slightest, I just noticed a lot of your own personal voice in each of the characters.


Quoted from dreamscale
Did the Vegas Flashback work for you and do you understand why it’s in there now that you know the entire story?


I think it did go on a little long, but I think I understand what you were doing, showing that Jack does have it in him to put up a good fight.  And I'm guessing it was to foreshadow the Harrison's Cave scenes, so we didn't see Jack's inner commando just come out of nowhere.


Lol.  As for 'the plot thickens' thing...  I just see that line as not only being an annoying cliche, (I'm sure you've had to see it 100,000 times yourself,) but also a cheap device to try and get a reader to pay closer attention.  That wasn't so much as me telling you that it should be removed, but me just saying what I think of when I see that line.



Quoted from dreamscale
This is where I figured out that Mitch didn't exist.  I didn't know exactly in what capacity he didn't exist, whether he was a multiple personality of Jack's or just a figment of his imagination, (and I was leaning toward multiple personality because of how Mitch was registered at the hotel or wherever), but I knew he didn't exist at that point.)” – OK, Mark, What do you mean here?  What caused you to think this?  And are you saying after finishing, you still believe this?


Ahh, I think I see now why you're not sure if I followed the story or not.  I was very confusing in how I worded the part where I said "This is where I figured out that Mitch didn't exist".  You think that I think that Mitch NEVER EXISTED AT ALL?  Right?

Now, true, while I was reading it, I did think that Mitch NEVER existed.  I thought that was the way you were going to go with Mitch, that he was just a figment of Jack's imagination.  But when I did get to the end, I realized Mitch DID in fact exist and that Jack killed him the same time Julie had died and buried their bodies together, and I realized Jack seeing Mitch in the present was some sort of psychosis he was seeing.

Now, that being said, after I finished reading, that was the way I INTERPRETED the way that the story ended.  Was I right thinking that, or did I really miss something else?

And as for what caused me to think that Mitch wasn't really there with him, like I had told you in a PM and working on a few stories myself about different variations of amnesia, I was looking for anything fishy about a central character not having any communication with any of the other characters.  And when (I think it was Addinton) said something about not ever being able to speak with Mitch, and Mitch purposely avoiding them, alarm bells started echoing in my head.


(And by the way, I've been working with a character named Addington in one of my stories, (inspired by one of my favorite poker players, Crandall Addington), so I'm sorry if I've added any 'g's in Addinton's name that's starting to annoy you.  It's just a habit to put it in there after typing it so many times in my own stuff.)



Quoted from dreamscale
now that you know how it all plays out, do you think Jack really had amnesia?  Or do you think he was playing around the whole time, using the amnesia angle to protect himself?  Or maybe a little of each?


Oh, crap.  This was an element to the story I never did think of.  Maybe I was wrong in my interpretation of the story.  But for what it's worth, I thought Jack really did have amnesia.  (Especially since he's been having problems with it for so many years, why would he pretend around his wife and dad?)  But no, it never even entered into my head once that he could be playing around trying to protect himself.  Even after reading it the whole way through, I never got that idea.


1)      So, what’s the deal with Mitch?

To sum up what I said above, WHILE READING, trying to guess the ending, I thought that Mitch had never existed and was a figment of Jack's imagination.  AFTER READING, I understood Mitch did exist before and was killed by Jack the same time that Julie died.  He existed in the present story only as part of Jack's psychosis, or trauma.

2)     What’s the deal with Addinton’s Mum and the recurring dragonfly references?

Actually, sorry I didn't mention anything about this before.  I got the idea while reading that his mother was seeing visions of Julie dead and that she needed to be found for her soul to be at peace, as represented by the dragon flies throughout.  (Dragon flies are my favorite insect, and I never knew that about them.)

Now, do I like the supernatural element this brings to an otherwise 'straight arrow' story?  To be honest...  I don't know.  It didn't seem very obtrusive to the story, or detrimental to it at all, so I don't think it's too much of a problem.  I'm not going to go as far to say that I think it made the story better than it was already, but it wasn't bothersome to me and will probably give people a lot to think about.

Lol, what's funny, is that in one of my amnesia stories I told you about, there's a small, very small, minute hint of a supernatural element that is in no way obtrusive to the story, and if anything, just gives people something to think about.  That supernatural element also has to do with a soul finding peace.

3)     What was the point of the bookended montages?

Actually, I never really thought about them too much.  I like how at first, I thought it was Jack and Julie doing all those fun things, but at the end, was surprised to actually see that it was Jack and Mitch doing all the fun things.  I thought it was a cool little mislead.

There's not anything SUPER-SECRET behind it, is there?  Jack and Mitch aren't lovers, are they? and Julie wasn't a figment of Jack's imagination, was she?  I couldn't've been THAT offbase.

4)     How did the Vegas Flashback come into play with the Harrison’s Cave scenes?

So when Jack went Rambo on the people trying to rape Julie, his heroics wouldn't just come out of nowhere.  Was that correct?

5)     Did Jack kill anyone in the present time line?  Did he try to kill anyone in the present time line?

Yeah.  He killed Woodie and tried to kill Addinton in the present timeline.  He also tried to kill what's his face?  Glenville.  (Sorry, Glenville just never made that much of an impression on me throughout the whole story.  That's why I thought his and Shauntee's little fling went on too long.)


I'm sorry I was a little confusing with the way I worded some of my thoughts lastnight.  Hope this makes everything a little more clear as to what I thought what happened.

Lol.  I'm still questioning myself, wondering if I did read everything right.  Anyhow, let me know, or if there's anything you want me to try and make a little clearer about what I think, just point it out and I'll try to explain it a little better.

Glad I could be of help.  If there's anything else, just let me know.

- Mark


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Dreamscale
Posted: May 30th, 2011, 10:39pm Report to Moderator
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OK, Mark, very good. You nailed everything except for one...Mitch was not a figment of Jack's imagination or psychosis.  He was a ghost.  He was back to make sure Jack didn't get away with his murder and to make him remember.

Jack and Mitch were best friends and always had been.  Jack and Julie had lost what they had based on Jimmy's death and the way jack handled it and blamed himself.  The bookended montages are to show their bond and yes, as you mentioned, to make you think it was about Jack and Julie, when it was more Jack and Mitch...and no, they are not gay in any way.

In the rewrite, it's clear that Jack did not try to kill Julie...he actually did everything in his power to save her when she slipped over the edge.  But with Mitch, Jack killed him in the coldest blood possible and for that, Mitch had to come back and set things straight.

Thus, the supernatural element and the dragonflies, is Mitch's return, as well as Julie's troubled soul, but more Mitch's actively troubled soul..

You're spot on on everything else and I'm very happy that you nailed the reason for the Vegas scene (other than to show some T & A, and get some action going).

Right on, bro, thank you for all the feedback.
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rc1107
Posted: May 30th, 2011, 11:12pm Report to Moderator
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Ahh, so there's a LOT more supernatural than I thought going on.  I find it interesting that the story still worked out the same in the end with me thinking it was Jack's disturbed psychosis.  I still arrived at the same conclusion.  The story loses nothing in that aspect, although it does make the dragon flies a lot more clearer.  I just thought they were meant strictly for Jules.

And I think I forgot to mention about something you asked me before, about the 'baby pussy' line, is what I guess you were referring to.

No.  I didn't think it was a typo.  I knew what kind of character you were going for in her and I rather liked that line myself.  Granted, I'm a little deranged like that myself, so there might not be a lot of people who like that part.  But I did.


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Dreamscale
Posted: May 31st, 2011, 11:19am Report to Moderator
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Next time I get negative feedback, I think I'll simply say, "Eat my baby pussy!".

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Tony Hughes
Posted: August 17th, 2011, 7:18pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Next time I get negative feedback, I think I'll simply say, "Eat my baby pussy!".



I'm licking my lips.....that was gross....jk by the way.


Jeff, I told you I'd give this a read like two months ago. FINALLY got around to reading it.

The way you write makes it very easy for me to visualize the action that is happening on each page. I have to give you a lot of credit if this story was chalked up in only seven weeks. That is very impressive.


I have to admit I wasn't blown away by the twists you had. I saw it coming with Mitch being the "other" man and knew that Jack would probably end up being the killer. In fact, I didn't really care for either of the characters that much. Although at times I really felt for Jack, his kid dying, his ability to defend his wife in the cave (a really thrilling scene by the way).

I think your story would be a lot more accessible if you perhaps drew back on the flashbacks and focused on the present a little more. The flashbacks took me out of what was happening too often. Your ability to present action scenes is a real gift. From the cave scene to the chase with Woodie, I was pulled in.

Even though Jack and Mitch were perhaps not the most amiable pair, you wrote some really good cops in. At times, I would have liked to see the story focus on them more.


That's all I really have. Again, the whole amnesia thing is not really up my ally, but your skills as a writer allowed me to breeze through this story pretty quickly and I enjoyed reading it. I cannot say I would "like it" if I saw it as a film though....

I liked Fade to White and kind of enjoyed this. I get the feeling you're a real outdoors man, a man of travel. Let me know if you have any other scripts!
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Dreamscale
Posted: August 18th, 2011, 4:25pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Mr. Ow, thanks so much for reading and providing feedback.  I totally appreciate it!

The fact that Mitch is the "other man" really isn't supposed to be a twist.  It's actually more of a cover up for the real twist that Mitch is dead, and the Mitch we see throughout the present time line is actually a ghost.  Kinda one of those techniques that allows readers/watchers to think they've got it figured out, but actually just diverts attention away from the real twist.

You are not alone in not really liking Jack and Mitch, which still surprises me to this day.  I think it must be the tone in which everything and everyone, is portrayed.  For instance, in the Vegas scene, we see numerous "bad qualities" from both of them, yet in a movie like The Hangover, the same things occur, but are handled in a comical way.  The booze, drug and engage in sex, just like the Wolfpack does, but here, people look down on them for these very same actions.  Kinda interesting, actually.

I'm bummed you said this isn't something you'd enjoy seeing on film.  IMO, the Flashbacks would be so much easier to handle in a filmed version.  Oh well, all I can do is try.

Let me know if I can help in any of your projects.  Thanks again!
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leitskev
Posted: August 18th, 2011, 4:55pm Report to Moderator
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Jeff, one thing about the Hangover guys: they had to be roofied to do those things. That's kind of the premise. Guys to to Vegas for a bachelor party and end up doing things they would never do because the nerdy guy slips them a drug to loosen them up. Does that make sense?
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Tony Hughes
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Quoted from Dreamscale


You are not alone in not really liking Jack and Mitch, which still surprises me to this day.  I think it must be the tone in which everything and everyone, is portrayed.  For instance, in the Vegas scene, we see numerous "bad qualities" from both of them, yet in a movie like The Hangover, the same things occur, but are handled in a comical way.  The booze, drug and engage in sex, just like the Wolfpack does, but here, people look down on them for these very same actions.  Kinda interesting, actually.

I'm bummed you said this isn't something you'd enjoy seeing on film.  IMO, the Flashbacks would be so much easier to handle in a filmed version.  Oh well, all I can do is try.

Let me know if I can help in any of your projects.  Thanks again!


Perhaps I shouldn't have said it would make a film a wouldn't like. Many of the sequences you wrote (including the opening) would translate really well to celluloid. Although your script is almost completely different, I remember seeing a film called the LAST GETAWAY (i believe that was the title). I went in with low expectations and came out satisfied.

You are right: the flashbacks may do better on film ,rather than having to read them. I did not mean all of them, I just found it difficult to stick with in the beginning, but once I got used to your structure I understood their purpose.


AS for the Hangover, that film is a comedy. IN your script, Going back to Vegas just made it harder for me to sympathize with Jack being betrayed because he cheated on his wife as well. I had no problem with the scene, I just felt that it makes it hard for the audience to want Jack to find a happy ending. He doesn't anyway so I guess you did your character justice.

It is interesting how given the circumstances of a genre people can accept particular actions a character does in a film and at the same time denounce them in other stories.

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Dreamscale
Posted: August 18th, 2011, 5:25pm Report to Moderator
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It makes perfect sense, but Bachelor Parties in Vegas tend to be this way, one way or another.

For instance, one of my best friends has been married to his wife for over 20 years.  They have 3 beautiful children.  He's a great husband, a great father, and a great provider. From the outside looking in, this guy could be a frickin' saint.

But, when the cat's away, this mousse likes to play.  When he's around the "right" crowd, which in reality cold be looked at as the "wrong" crowd, he's apt to do anything and everything in the book, as in hard drinking, drugging, and banging any babe that's ready to go.

His wife not only has no idea, but she literally wouldn't even believe it, even if she witnessed it going down.

Does this make him a bad person?  I bet many would say "Hell yes, it does!".  But the cold hard reality is that he's far from alone in this behavior...especially when it comes to Vegas trips.

And it's not like women are remotely guilt free in this regard either.  I've been downright shocked how professional, "mature" wives and mothers act, when they get out with friends, in situations where the old rule, no harm, no foul" comes into play.

Does it make it right?  Hell no, but it is the way it is for a large number and percentage of people.
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leitskev
Posted: August 18th, 2011, 5:40pm Report to Moderator
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Jeff, you are correct that a lot of guys are like that, a lot more than people would ever believe. Remember, I was behind a bar for 20 years. I've seen it. Given the right circumstances, ease of opportunity, it's almost unbelievable what otherwise straightlaced guys will do, especially if there are easy women around.

But, you let the secret out!

The problem is that though that's how many guys are, you don't want those characters in film unless they are just rogue, supporting actors. For the protagonist to be likable, we don't want him to be too real. We don't want to see him pick his nose.

I liked Unforgettable. I must have, because I read it a LONG time ago, and I remember all the details. The flashbacks made for a hard read, but it will be different in film.

The one thing I was always against was the damned Vegas scene. It definitely made these guys unlikable, and it comes early when you're still forming an opinion of them.

And yes, I've been to Vegas. With a girlfriend though, so nothing crazy!
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Dreamscale
Posted: August 18th, 2011, 5:53pm Report to Moderator
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Kev, as I said, it's far from only "guys" who are like this.  Women are as bad and maybe even worse, cause it's easier for them.

IMO, it all comes down to what you know about reality, and how you take certain instances of said reality.  In this example, it occurs during a Bachelor Party, while neither is "married".  It's not like they're going out every weekend, picking up babes, while their wifeys are home doing laundry and ironing clothes.

It's all perspective.

Mr. Ow, all I meant with my comment about being bummed, was that, as most, I wish everyone would want to see my movie and love it.  That's not how life works though, and I'm well aware of it.

Are you talking about "Last Getaway", low budget horror movie, or "Perfect Getaway", which is actually much like Fade to White, with Milla Jojovich and Steve Zahn?
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