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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Thriller Scripts  ›  Unforgettable - 7WC Moderators: bert
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  Author    Unforgettable - 7WC  (currently 27997 views)
Electric Dreamer
Posted: September 22nd, 2010, 10:17pm Report to Moderator
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Taking a long vacation from the holidays.

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Quoted from Dreamscale
Hey Screen Dreamer, welcome aboard, and thanks for the read.  Much appreciated.

Thanks for the compliments…but it’s set in Barbados, not The Bahamas.

I’m quite surprised that a number of people have said the same thing about the lead characters all being “bad people”, or “adulterers, murderers or cokeheads”.  Yes, there is some adulterous stuff going on, there is murder, and there is cocaine use…maybe abuse, but IMO, that does not make them bad people or even unlikable characters.  You’re not alone here though, so maybe it’s just me, I don’t know.


Much thanks for the kind welcome!
Oh damn, did I mention I'm cr*p with geography? My bad.
For me, character investment here is all about Jack.
If I don't care about or have interest in the protagonist, I'm gonna nitpick on others.
No one challenges anyone else's moral code or ethics and I feel it needs to happen.
Julie shouldn't have to see her husband duke it out to want to do the right thing.


Quoted from dreamscale

I’ve also seen Shattered several times, but couldn’t really tell you anything about it, other than it’s from the 90’s and has Tom Berrenger in it.

In the film, Tom Berenger plays a fella that wakes up from a traumatic accident with partial amnesia.
He tries to piece together the events leading up to the accident.
He discovers his life is not what it seems at all. The themes of infidelity are prevalent.

Quoted from dreamscale

Good point about Woodie seeing Jack and Mitch on the beach on page 23.  I’ll change it so that Woodie doesn’t appear until they’re walking along, so he won’t see anything that is that strange.  Thanks for bringing that up.

My pleasure, I wondered to myself what Woodie thought of seeing all that, heh.
That's why later on I thought he was too casual with the meet for payment.


Quoted from dreamscale

You once again mention that Jack is a bad person and because of that, you don’t like him or the script.  I’m very surprised by this.  No matter if Jack is a good person or a bad person, I don’t think he would spill information that makes him look guilty, though, would he?

I do dislike Jack, but I do like many parts of your script.
Jack does not have to spill the beans, but not confiding in his best friend?
Not launching his own private investigation into this behind the police's back?
I do not forgive Jack for that. He never challenges the shady stuff he remembers.
Could I be that bad? Would I do that to my wife? All good unasked questions.


Quoted from dreamscale

You can’t (and shouldn’t) trust everything you hear a character say.  Very often, writers use such devices to cover things up by making them seem like red herrings, to the point where you really don’t know whether or not to take it all as gospel.  Know what I’m saying?

I agree with you here...
However, when a nice old lady on her death bed says something, I tend to believe it.


Quoted from dreamscale

I’m also quite surprised and even confused why you say the last bits of mystery have been eliminated by page 68.  As far as I’m concerned, there are plenty of mysteries ahead.  Are you saying that everything played out exactly like you assumed from page 68-104?  I sure hope not, or I really failed here.

Eeeek! My bad, poorly worded drivel, apologies. I had soup making on the brain.
In my mind, Julie's fate was cemented by that scene, I meant nothing more.
As I said before, I feel your third act here is by far your strongest.


Quoted from dreamscale

Sorry this wasn’t for you.  I don’t foresee making the characters out to be saints, though.  They’re all “real people” and real people are flawed.  All the leads here were purposely written to be flawed.  IMO, that doesn’t make them bad people or bad characters.


Yes, they are real and flawed people. I agree. Saints need not apply.
However, its not the flaw that makes me dislike the leads.
It's the fact that I never see anyone poke anyone else's moral compass until the end.
I guess I wanted Jack to question his own identity a whole lot more than he did.
Thanks again for the read it was a fine time and very educational!

I will be submitting myself for punishment with a writing sample soonish.

Regards,
E.D.


LATEST NEWS

CineVita Films
is producing a short based on my new feature!

A list of my scripts can be found here.
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 23rd, 2010, 12:12pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Murph, long time, man.  Welcome back.

I agree, I like to read the comments first also, before I post.  It’s interesting to see what you agree and disagree with.

Thank you, 7 weeks does go fast. For me, it’s not the writing part that’s difficult, it’s the planning stages that take most of the time.  I spent at least 3 weeks planning everything and doing research.

So you’re saying you like this better than Fade to White, huh?  Thanks, but I would disagree.  Fade is my first born though, so you know how that goes…

Cool, glad you liked the characters and see that they’re well developed.  I spent a lot of the planning stage, giving these people a life outside the immediate story.  Glad it showd through for you.

You’re not alone in having issues with the Flashbacks coming too easily.  It’s interesting, as I actually spoke to a medical doctor who deals with amnesia type situations on a regular basis, at the hospital my girlfriend works at.  I used the info I gathered from him and then made it a little more movie friendly, but in reality, the mind can work this way.  It’s really all about the amnesia itself, what caused it, how deep is it, what type of mental capacity does the person have, medical/family history, blah, blah, blah.  I guess I could try and give a little more reason why certain Flashbacks come up at certain moments.  I'll look at it again.

As for Mitch, looks like you may have missed the big twist reveal at the end, Murph.  Mitch was indeed killed right after Julie died, the night before the script proper begins.  Mitch is only in his human form in Flashbacks.

Never seen South Park…and never will.  I hate that kind of shit, actually!  I will not disagree with you about South Park or The Machinist though, because I will be wrong.  

Thanks for the read and feedback, Murph.  Good to see you back on the boards.
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Murphy
Posted: September 23rd, 2010, 4:35pm Report to Moderator
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Dude, he's a ghost? Like Bruce Willis?

Hmmmmm.....

Not sure about that, that made me go back and read the comments. I agree with others, he called Jack, we saw Jack take the call. M. Night to remember Shalallalalalaman pulled it off because it made logical sense when re-watching, and obviously the "I see dead people" line was so pivotal, in fact it turns out the most important piece of dialogue in the entire script, without it the whole movie just falls apart.

So unless you have Jack tell someone he "calls dead people" I think you have got to re-think the whole phone call thing. I think it is actually cheating, which is an awful thing for a screenwriter to do, no grand reveal is ever worth cheating to make a twist work. Why not just have Mitch turn up at the hospital?

I like the idea, It actually could work if you now put some real effort into writing some scenes of Mitch interacting with the real world that on the surface appear normal but with a second read and the knowledge he is dead still make logical sense. In a word, if you want to pull something like this off you are gonna have to do it in a much clever way than you have done here. The price to pay for being ambitious!

I will say however that armed with this knowledge it does actually make more sense of the ending, and I probably like it more know than I did. But the cheating is unforgivable.

Naughty boy!
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 23rd, 2010, 5:27pm Report to Moderator
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Yes, Mr. Murphy, yes.  Now you got it.

There's really only 1 place I need to fix slightly, and Screen Dreamer just found it for me, where Woodie follows Jack and Mitch, but doesn't react to the fact that Jack is shaking hands with thin air (I'll just make Woodie's entrance a little later).

Mitch does not interact with a single character except Jack.  I was very careful to cover all my bases.  What people are getting hung up on are 2 things, basically...Mitch calling Jack on his cell, and Mitch snorting lines and drinking vodka.  I was going to have Mitch just show up at the hospital, but after thinking about all the possibilities, I decided it would be difficult to impossible to get them from the hospital to the beach.  Think about it...

But, check this out...how many times have you seen some old ghost movie where a candelabra or some other object floats across the room?  How many movies have calls been placed from beyond the grave?  Alot, in both cases.  My take on it is this...since ghosts aren't proven to be real, the writer can allow them to do whatever he wants.  In this script, my ghost, Mitch, can manipulate objects, meaning he can make calls show up on Jack's cell, and he can snort fatties and pound down Bellvedere.

There's actually a small change I'm going to make when Mitch snorts the first lines, by himself.  Instead of saying what good shit Jack has, he's going to say something like, "Damn, I miss these days already."

OK, so we cool now?  I'm really surprised that a number of people have missed this big twist reveal, but it's always easier when you already know.

Thanks for the discussion. Let me know if there's anything else you want clarification on.
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Coding Herman
Posted: September 23rd, 2010, 9:52pm Report to Moderator
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Hi, Jeff. Sorry for being so late in reviewing your script.

Page 1, is there really a ski hill in the Caribbeans? Oh, okay, so not all scenes in the montage took place in the Caribbeans. I misunderstood it because the previous sky diving and underwater scene.

Page 14, I'm starting to get annoyed by the constant flashbacks, I think this is like the fifth and sixth already. I'll see if those flashbacks lead anywhere.

Page 19, the most logical action is for Mitch going to visit Jack at QEH, so Mitch telling Jack to meet him at someplace else doesn't ring true to me. What's worse is that Jack actually agrees to do so. I mean, hospital is the safest place for him right now, he doesn't remember anything or anywhere, so venturing out all by himself sounds like a stretch to me. You need to find a way that forces Jack to get out of the hospital.

Page 31, the flashback sequence is good. It shows us the relationship between Mitch and Jack. So now let's see if this sequence will affect the story.

Page 34, so Mitch was saying they were being followed (which came out of nowhere by the way), and now he told Jack to just hang around for five minutes? And told him to get back to the bar by himself? Jack doesn't sound like a roughed up guy who lost his memory to me.

Page 46, A GENERAL NOTE, the first 15 pages are good and intriguing as I wanted to find out what's going to happen next. But after 30 pages and almost half way through the script, nothing much seemed to happen in the NOW. Almost all of your story takes place in flashbacks. I started to wonder if your main story should take place during those flashbacks instead.

Another thing is that the story is not thrilling or exciting. More like a drama with a little bit of suspense. All I know so far is that Jack is amnesiac, he doesn't know where his wife is, he goes to meet Mitch, and the police calls Jack back. None of these events are thrilling because there is no complications to each task. Everything happens smoothly.

The most thrilling part, as of now, is during the Las Vegas flashback in the suite. I want more of those scenes. At 46 pages, there should be 4 of those already. So pacing is a problem.

You also need more turning points and hints. We're still left in the dark for half of the script. We knew Julie and Mitch are up to something. That's a given in an amnesic thriller. Up till now, the police and Jack are just investigating without any breakthrough. The good thing, though, is we learned a lot about Jack's life, and hopefully they come into play later on.

Page 55, yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Finally there's some leads to follow.

TO BE CONINTUED....


FEATURE:

Memwipe
- Sci-Fi, Action, Thriller (114 pages) - In a world where memories can be erased by request, a Memory Erasing Specialist desperately searches for the culprit when his wife becomes a target for erasure -- with his former colleagues hot on his trail.
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 24th, 2010, 11:20am Report to Moderator
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Hey Screen Dreamer, just wanted to reply to you again.

There’s definitely no moral code or ethics being challenged here for sure.  But you need to keep in mind that all this stuff takes place in less than 24 hours, not including the Flashbacks, of course.  The shiny new race car has long been broken for Jack and Julie…but that doesn’t mean it can’t be fixed.  This was the entire reason they came back to Barbados.  Julie was not aware Mitch was coming too.  Mitch is the prick here, actually, as he knew damn well they were trying to reconcile things this week, so what does he do?  He flies down to Barbados as well, and makes things much more difficult for Julie and eventually causes everything that went down, through his being there.  If he wasn’t there, none of this bad shit would have gone down.  And also, it’s not Jack’s heroic behavior in the cave that made Julie see the light and want to do the right thing.  It was merely a glimpse back to the man she fell in love with, a man who hasn’t been home for years.

Again, many thanks for reading and engaging in this discussion.  This sort of back and forth is invaluable to me as a writer.  Take care!
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 24th, 2010, 3:33pm Report to Moderator
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Howdy, Herman.  Thanks for getting started on my script.  I appreciate it.

I'll respond to everything after you're done.  Thanks.
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Coding Herman
Posted: September 24th, 2010, 9:49pm Report to Moderator
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Page 62, why does Addinton makes it like arresting Mitch? They don't know what Mitch really did, so it's more logical to have Mitch to provide a statement. So Addinton drawing his gun out doesn't work for me here.

Page 65, this flashback sequence seems out of place. I don't know what causes Jack to remember that sequence while he's having a stomach ache.

Page 80, the cave tour is nice and all, but I think it took too long to get to what you're trying to do. I don't think you need to show both the Cathedral and the Bastille. One is enough, or even better, skip right to the Bath House where the drama begins.

Page 81, I don't get why Jack didn't give all the money to Morris. People in this situation would avoid the conflict, not flaming it. Even if Morris et. al are psychos, Jack would still give up his money first.

Page 99, I want to know what the dragonfly symbolizes.

Page 101, I admit that I was surprised about Mitch. But then that just makes Jack so unlikable, especially what he did to Addinton.

Page 104, I don't get the ending montage, I know it's the same one as the beginning ones, but what's the purpose? Are you implying that Jack and Mitch are gay?


Some general thoughts:

I have mixed feeling about the overall script. I think the main problems are the constant flashbacks and an inactive, unlikable protagonist. By the way, the most active character here is actually Addinton, and I liked him a lot more than Jack, but I doubt Addinton is your intended protagonist.

Save the last 10 pages, Jack didn't do much to find out how he became amnesiac. He followed his imagined Mitch around, remembered something, and this sequence just repeats itself. There is no struggles or obstacles for Jack to overcome, and hence, makes the script kinda flat with little ups and downs. Instead, you gave all the work to Addinton so his character is more interesting to me.

There are waaaaaay too many flashbacks. Some of them are not even needed. I keep on wondering where these flashbacks lead to, and they're not paid off. I think only around 6 to 7 flashbacks are essential to the story and to building the characters. And when a long flashback ends, I had to go back to before the flashback to see where I was.

The Addinton-mother subplot didn't do much either. This subplot keeps popping up once in a while. But again, it's not paid off. Leave me hanging if I've missed something. The only connection I make is the dragonfly, and that's really a stretch.

The pacing is another problem. I couldn't really remember a lot of scenes that stick out to me. The memorable ones are: the Las Vegas suite, the Woodie chase, the attempted rape in the cave, and maybe the last flashback. What's missing is the tension and the stake. I can't feel Jack being very desperate in finding Julie because he's pretty inactive. And since you alluded to Julie being adulterous in the beginning, I could care less whether she lives or not.

For seven weeks, it's a good job. It's still enjoyable, albeit some dull spots here and there.

I'll add more if I think of something.


Herman


FEATURE:

Memwipe
- Sci-Fi, Action, Thriller (114 pages) - In a world where memories can be erased by request, a Memory Erasing Specialist desperately searches for the culprit when his wife becomes a target for erasure -- with his former colleagues hot on his trail.
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 25th, 2010, 5:44pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Herman, thanks so much for reading and giving your thoughts.  Sounds like this one wasn’t for you, and for that, I apologize.

If you look closely, there’s nothing in the script that would make you believe any of the montage scenes are taking place in Barbados, or the Caribbean.

Uh oh, if you’re annoyed on page 14 with the amount of Flashbacks, you’re going to be annoyed throughout the entire script.  I think there are 23 Flashback scenes.  Obviously, this script, like every one of my scripts, does not have a standard structure.  Personally, I’m not big on Flashbacks, so I decided that if I was going to use them (and for this type of story, I needed them), I might as well really use them. IMO, once your mind wraps around the non standard structure, the Flashbacks should be pretty easy to digest.  In a filmed version, I think they’d both be easy to spot and easy to accept.

I’ve responded a few times about why Jack had to meet Mitch, as opposed to Mitch just meeting him at the hospital.  I assume now that you’re read the whole thing, you understand.

Cool, glad you liked the Vegas Flashback.  I realized I needed to add some action and excitement, so Vegas it was.  This scene also contains my favorite line of dialogue, spoken by Alexis…HaHa…funny.

Hopefully, everything that didn’t make sense to you as you read, makes sense now that you know the outcome.  Also, I think you need to keep in mind 2 things when it comes to what a character would and wouldn’t do…first, they’re all characters in a script. Although I try to give everyone a life outside the script, as well as a history, you still have to understand that move characters do things real people wouldn’t all the time.  I hate seeing characters making stupid decisions to move the story forward, and I’ll never go that route.  And 2, you need to keep in mind that there are all sorts of different people out there.  I think you’d be shocked at the things seemingly normal, everyday people do all the time.

Well, you’re definitely right, Herman,  the majority of the first half of the script is spent bringing us up to speed, and that means using Flashbacks.  The entire theme of the script is a story told through Flashbacks.  Some may not appreciate this, but then again, look at Benjamin Button , I’d say over 95% of the movie is told through Flashbacks.  I have created a story that takes place in real time as well, and that drives everything forward.  I’m sorry it’s not working for you.

I apologize you found the story dull and uneventful.  It’s a mystery with action and thriller attributes.  I don’t think it’s boring, though at all.  To me, the exciting and thrilling themes are being planted in the first half.  I do tend to structure my script, based on the kind of movies I like, and those are slow builds that gain momentum until the grand finale. I’d much rather on a high note, than shoot my wad early.  I understand what you’re saying though.

Again, I don’t try to follow cookie cutter templates that tell us where to insert action, how often, etc.  I don’t believe in that generic process.  It’s actually what I dislike most about modern movies…they’re all so predictable, obvious, cliché.  I want to do things differently.

I’m not sure I follow you on needing more turning points, hints, and clues. It’s a mystery.  You need to figure it all out right there alongside the characters.

Cool…so you’re saying you like the Woodie chase?  Don’t worry, there’s more action on the way.  I make a very conscious effort not to throw too much action in…this ain’t no all you can eat buffet…this is a fine dining experience and we serve all action in small portions.  HaHa!!  You know, Herman, IMO, when you come across a good action sequence (I’m not talking about this one, BTW at all), you tend to remember it more if it comes bookended with some down time.  It hits harder to me, and that’s why I write the story this way.  It’s a conscious decision for sure.

OK, to keep it easier to follow, I’ll do like you and respond separately to each post.  So your 2nd and final post will be responded to shortly.

Thanks again, Herman.

Revision History (1 edits)
Dreamscale  -  September 27th, 2010, 3:32pm
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Electric Dreamer
Posted: September 25th, 2010, 7:08pm Report to Moderator
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Taking a long vacation from the holidays.

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Quoted from Dreamscale
Hey Screen Dreamer, just wanted to reply to you again.

There’s definitely no moral code or ethics being challenged here for sure.  But you need to keep in mind that all this stuff takes place in less than 24 hours, not including the Flashbacks, of course.  The shiny new race car has long been broken for Jack and Julie…but that doesn’t mean it can’t be fixed.  This was the entire reason they came back to Barbados.  Julie was not aware Mitch was coming too.  Mitch is the prick here, actually, as he knew damn well they were trying to reconcile things this week, so what does he do?  He flies down to Barbados as well, and makes things much more difficult for Julie and eventually causes everything that went down, through his being there.  If he wasn’t there, none of this bad shit would have gone down.  And also, it’s not Jack’s heroic behavior in the cave that made Julie see the light and want to do the right thing.  It was merely a glimpse back to the man she fell in love with, a man who hasn’t been home for years.

Again, many thanks for reading and engaging in this discussion.  This sort of back and forth is invaluable to me as a writer.  Take care!


When you say it like that, it all makes sense! I like the banter too!
I hope we can continue soonish when I submit myself for public consternation!

Regards,
E.D.


LATEST NEWS

CineVita Films
is producing a short based on my new feature!

A list of my scripts can be found here.
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 25th, 2010, 7:24pm Report to Moderator
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Page 62 – I’m not sure what you mean here, Herman.  Addy and Glenville were just playing it safe, being professionals.  They didn’t know what to expect.  Super Orlando just let them know that Mitch had been on the island for a number of days, unlike he told Jack.  You know?

Page 65 – Jack didn’t have a stomach ache…he was wasted from pounding vodka (the night before as well).  His Flashback was of him and Mitch together in better days.  It’s also there to show Mitch and Julie interacting for the first time.  It’s 1 page long, so shouldn’t be too big a deal.

Page 80 – Yeah, the cave scene definitely runs pretty long…about 12 pages, I think.  I realize it’s a long scene, but personally, I like it for that.  Sure I could chop out 1 of the rooms, but at that point, it adds to the tension, cause you know something’s gonna go wrong in there.

Again, I don’t think you can make the call about how someone will act in a situation.  I personally wouldn’t just hand over all my money, after forking out $300 already!  That’s who Jack is.  That’s actually why the Vegas Flashback is in there…it shows you early on who Jack and Mitch are. They don’t take shit.

Dragonflies are universal symbols for many different things.  I did some research on them and picked and chose, and made up my own little mythology.  Mrs. Harewood says what they are earlier.

You do understand that Mitch was a ghost throughout the present day action, right?  He was only alive in Flashbacks.

Jack completely lost it in the end. He was high on coke, wasted, upset, enraged…he did try and save Julie, though.

No, I am not implying that Jack and Mitch are gay in any way.  They are best friends.  They shared countless unforgettable moments.  The difference in the end montage from the beginning montage is that now you see it wasn’t Jack and Julie doing all these unforgettable things, it was actually Jack and Mitch.  This was much more their story, than it was Jack and Julie’s story.  Think about it…Julie’s only in a few scenes, and they’re all Flashbacks.

Some general thoughts –Others agree that we’re dealing with an unlikable protag.  It still surprises me that people find him so unlikable.

Addinton and Glenville are are both intended to be main characters…and likable characters.  That’s why they each have a small side plotline running parallel to the main storyline.  I wanted you to worry about Addy in the end.

I’m actually glad you say you like Addy better than Jack…or Mitch.  He’s supposed to be a strong character with mannerisms that you can relate to and see.  IMO, Jack’s not a bad guy at all.  He had some problems in his life.  He didn’t deal with them well.  In the end, based on the events taking place around him, he snapped, went nuts, and killed his best friend, caused his wife to die, attempted to kill Addy, and would’ve killed Glenville.  Up until that moment, I think Jack seems pretty cool.

As per the Flashbacks and the amount of them, it’s just the way I wanted to put this together.  If you open your mind to them, I don’t see how they’re obtrusive or annoying.  They’re all meant to be necessary and forwarding of the story.  They’re character building flashes of the characters.

I’m surprised you didn’t like the Addinton/Mum subplot.  You said you liked Addinton the best, so maybe these scenes had something to do with that.  You know?  Without them, what’s so special about Addy?  I think these scenes give him a life outside of being just another cop.

Sorry you didn’t like the pacing.  I’m surprised you couldn’t recall a number of bigger scenes.  Again, the idea is not to flood the reader with constant action and the like.  IMO, big scenes hit harder when they are fewer and better spaced out.

Well, you’re not alone by saying once a character commits adultery, they are a bad person.  This really surprises me, as well over 50% of spouses have cheated in real life.  Does the act of adultery make someone a bad person?  It doesn’t in my book, but if that’s how you feel, that’s OK, too.

Thanks for reading, Herman.  I appreciate your feedback.  Sorry it didn’t work for you.  It’s been a fun 7WC al the way through.  Glad you joined in.  Take care.
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Grandma Bear
Posted: September 26th, 2010, 5:34pm Report to Moderator
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"Oh well, at least you liked the first 25 pages…that’s a start.  I’m really bummed you didn’t like the next 79 pages.  IMO, the 2nd half is where things really heat up and take off.  I’m surprised you felt the opposite."

I think you misread me there Jeff. I don't think I said I didn't like it. I only pointed out the things that I didn't like or thought could go or need a change.


"Yes, it is a dialogue heavy script, and all my scripts tend to be dialogue heavy.  IMO, this one is much less dialogue heavy than I usually go, but I guess you see it differently.  I’ll be the first to admit that I actually go out of my way to make sure all my dialogue (and action, as well, for that matter) does not always advance the story, or “lead to anything”.  I feel dialogue is a tool to create character, and as long as it takes place in a visually pleasing setting, or is entertaining, then it’s cool.  I know many do not agree."

If that's your style then that's your style. I only told you MHO.

"You’re very easy to understand, Pia!  I hear what you’re saying.  The vast majority of “action” takes place through Flashbacks, so maybe that is giving the affect of being light on action.  There are obviously several set pieces here that are intended to be the big scenes, both in terms of action and passing of information along.  My biggest fear was that this wasn’t going to be “thrilling” enough to be labeled a thriller. The genre of thriller is not my forte, but I’m very happy with this and feel it turned out better than I was even hoping."

I think you did a good job with this script and I think it was mysterious enough to fall into the thriller genre. I also liked the world that you created.

"Again, the issue with the characters likability is an issue that is very polarizing.  I am of the mindset that a character doesn’t have to be likable, to be interesting and engaging, and thus, a good character.   These are intended to be “real” characters, and real people are not without flaw.  Think about it…we’re all flawed and we all have our share of skeletons in our closets.  A mistake here and an indiscretion there do not make someone a horrible person." I said someone was horrible? I loved Hannibal Lector and he certainly was not without his flaws. I have a feeling I was being misunderstood in a lot of the things I commented on...

"Lets’ look at the Vegas Flashback, where you say you first started hating Jack.  Maybe the issue you have here has to do with your being female…I don’t know.  But I do know that if you think it’s shocking that a man would have sex with a “pro” on his Bachelor Party, you’re incorrect.  I’ve probably been to at least 15 bachelor Parties, and I’d say the majority of the time, there was quite a bit of discretionary things going on…not only with the actual Bachelor, but like everyone there.  Same deal with doing coke. For some, it’s just a party thing to do in certain situations…like a bachelor Party in Vegas, for instance.  It’s a lot more common place than you may imagine.  And “stealing” the watches was an issue for you?  It was Mitch who arranged that, first of all, but understand these guys were there to rob them of everything they had.  Mitch and Jack turned the tide and Mitch decided to take something from them as well…for their troubles.  That’s my take on it, at least."

I'm not a moral judge. I can't remember for certain now, but I think it went against how I had first pictured him. And I know what happens at bachelor parties....I've been to them.

"Yes, you are correct, as the script plays out, Jack does do more and more “not so nice things”, and your opinion of his character should change.  Keep in mind that when it’s all said and done, Jack turns out to be far from a great guy, so doesn’t it make sense that his character should be questioned along the way?"

Absolutely, but we start out feeling for him. In the beginning we know that he's the portage. We care about him and as the story goes along he turns out to be bad. That doesn't exactly leaves us with a good feeling. Sort of like we were scammed in the beginning.

"Julie does need a little more backstory and she’s going to get 1 or 2 more Flashbacks that will paint both her and Jack in a more positive light, during the “good times”, early on.  Hope that will help."

That's probably a good idea.

"Yes, Mitch Cooper was a name I used in 1 of those killer games, I think.  He’s supposed to be someone that you question early on.  It’s actually revealed quite early that what he’s saying isn’t all true.  As I mentioned in a PM to you, I see that you somehow missed the entire BIG TWIST REVEAL about Mitch.  Not sure how that could happen, but without it, the story and plot is much smaller, and less enjoyable, so I’ll be interested to see what you have to say now that you know the real deal."

Yes, I did miss the ghost twist and when you told me about it...I didn't like it. Let me know when you rewrite this one and I'll promise to reread it.

"I’m very surprised you didn’t like Addinton’s Mum’s scenes. Many really like them and I agree that it gives his character so much more.  It also ties everything up so nicely, involving the supernatural elements, as well as the big reveal…so…I can’t tell you that I’m going to cut any of their scenes together, and in reality, how many pages does she take up?  3 maybe?"

It just wasn't for me. It made the script drag. Again, these are just my humble little opinions and as I told you, no one should really listen to me anyway. I don't really watch movies anymore. I don't find them that entertaining. I love books. I just can't write prose. Screenplays are the only format I can make myself understandable in.

"Also really surprised you didn’t like Glenville and Shauntee.  My early readers all agree that she was one of their favorite characters.  She’s got a lot of great lines, IMO, and adds some comic relief, as well as some nice sex and nudity.  I also feel that she adds a lot to Glenville’s character as well as some much needed romance."

It was mostly the end scenes with them having their date and sex that bored me. It didn't do anything for the story, but I did like the characters if I remember correctly. Again, I need to be careful how I express myself when I write comments.

Again, let me know when you're done with the rewrite.  


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Coding Herman
Posted: September 26th, 2010, 10:05pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Hey Herman, thanks so much for reading and giving your thoughts.  Sounds like this one wasn’t for you, and for that, I apologize.


I'd say half of the script works for me and half of it doesn't. But it's still enjoyable.


Quoted from Dreamscale
If you look closely, there’s nothing in the script that would make you believe any of the montage scenes are taking place in Barbados, or the Caribbean.


True. That particular ski hill scene didn't say it took place in Barbados, but the previous scene did. So it gave me the illusion that the entire montage, including the sky diving, scuba diving, and skiing took place at the same place. It's not until the church scene that I finally realized this is a series of unrelated events.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Obviously, this script, like every one of my scripts, does not have a standard structure.


But I think your script does have a standard structure, that's how most stories work. You have a setup, a middle, and an ending. It doesn't matter whether they are in chronological order or not.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Personally, I’m not big on Flashbacks, so I decided that if I was going to use them (and for this type of story, I needed them), I might as well really use them. IMO, once your mind wraps around the non standard structure, the Flashbacks should be pretty easy to digest.  In a filmed version, I think they’d both be easy to spot and easy to accept.


I'm not saying the flashbacks are confusing to follow. What I meant is it's just frustrating when your main story is moving along and then we flashed to some incidents that don't relate to what we are doing now.

I don't mind the flashbacks if they add to the current story, like Slumdog Millionaire, each flashback is related to the question Jamal is currently answering.


Quoted from Dreamscale
I’ve responded a few times about why Jack had to meet Mitch, as opposed to Mitch just meeting him at the hospital.  I assume now that you’re read the whole thing, you understand.


I still don't understand why you don't have Mitch go to the hospital even if he's a ghost. Isn't it more logical to have Mitch visit Jack and then they both leave the hospital together? It just rubs me the wrong way that Jack would sneak out of the hospital because of a friend who just got off the plane.


Quoted from Dreamscale
The majority of the first half of the script is spent bringing us up to speed, and that means using Flashbacks.  The entire theme of the script is a story told through Flashbacks.  Some may not appreciate this, but then again, look at Benjamin Button , I’d say over 95% of the movie is told through Flashbacks.  I have created a story that takes place in real time as well, and that drives everything forward.  I’m sorry it’s not working for you.


Once again, I'm just suggesting several flashbacks can be cut out because I think they didn't add much to what we already knew or felt. I forgot how many flashbacks have shown us that Jack and Julie love each other, or alluding that Julie is up to something.

The abundance of flashbacks also made for a very disjointed story. I didn't know which is your A-story, the story I need to pay more attention to. I don't mean to sound harsh, but I did groan several times when I read flashbacks and thought they would lead us to something but found out they don't.

In regards to Benjamin Button, the main story is obviously Ben's life all told in flashbacks. The scenes in the hospital are very few and it's just a device to link between a large gap in time between each flashback. I knew exactly which story I need to focus on.


Quoted from Dreamscale
I apologize you found the story dull and uneventful.  It’s a mystery with action and thriller attributes.  I don’t think it’s boring, though at all.  To me, the exciting and thrilling themes are being planted in the first half.


What I found dull and uneventful is our protagonist, Jack, not doing anything interesting. What you setup in the beginning is whether Jack will find his wife despite his amnesia. But throughout the story, Jack doesn't seem to try to find his wife. He just wanders around with Mitch and talks to Addinton on the phone. I just feel the meat of your story didn't deliver what your promised in the beginning.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Again, I don’t try to follow cookie cutter templates that tell us where to insert action, how often, etc.  I don’t believe in that generic process.  It’s actually what I dislike most about modern movies…they’re all so predictable, obvious, cliché.  I want to do things differently.


Inserting genre-specific action is not generic because that's what makes a story fit in a particular genre. You can't have a horror movie that only delivers the thrill in the last 20 minutes but nothing else before it. Even for the very dramatic The Sixth Sense, there are horror moments throughout.


Quoted from Dreamscale
I’m not sure I follow you on needing more turning points, hints, and clues. It’s a mystery.  You need to figure it all out right there alongside the characters.


And this is related to what I was talking about: inserting genre-specific action throughout the script. And I don't mean gunfight and chase scene. For examples, here are two good turning points: 1) Jack seeing Julie arguing with a white man for the first time, and 2) discovering that Mitch had already been checked in for 3 day instead of 1. They change the course of the story, they change how we perceive the story. These things make the story more interesting.


Quoted from Dreamscale
I make a very conscious effort not to throw too much action in…this ain’t no all you can eat buffet…this is a fine dining experience and we serve all action in small portions.  HaHa!!  You know, Herman, IMO, when you come across a good action sequence (I’m not talking about this one, BTW at all), you tend to remember it more if it comes bookended with some down time.  It hits harder to me, and that’s why I write the story this way.  It’s a conscious decision for sure.


I completely agree with you. I'd feel numb if I get thrills after thrills after thrills. And that's what I thought the main problem is in Ray's script. (Sorry, Ray)

And IMO, there isn't enough thrills to in this thriller. What I mean is, there is no tension. You allude to some tension when Jack remembers that he sent Woodie to kill off Julie and Addinton asks Jack if he remembers anything. But then Addinton just stops probing, and the tension dies. If Addinton did find out about the transaction between Jack and Woodie, then it'll become more tense.


FEATURE:

Memwipe
- Sci-Fi, Action, Thriller (114 pages) - In a world where memories can be erased by request, a Memory Erasing Specialist desperately searches for the culprit when his wife becomes a target for erasure -- with his former colleagues hot on his trail.
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Coding Herman
Posted: September 27th, 2010, 12:57pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Page 62 – I’m not sure what you mean here, Herman.  Addy and Glenville were just playing it safe, being professionals.  They didn’t know what to expect.  Super Orlando just let them know that Mitch had been on the island for a number of days, unlike he told Jack.  You know?


But they're just paying a Mitch a visit. They just wanted to talk to him to see what's going on. They're not arresting him. What if Mitch opens the door and he sees two cops with their guns drawn already? (It's a rhetorical question.) I just think it's pretty premature for the cops to assume that Mitch might be the one who killed Julie. But anyway, it's not a big deal.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Page 65 – Jack didn’t have a stomach ache…he was wasted from pounding vodka (the night before as well).  His Flashback was of him and Mitch together in better days.  It’s also there to show Mitch and Julie interacting for the first time.  It’s 1 page long, so shouldn’t be too big a deal.


It doesn't matter whether he's having a stomach ache or simply wasted, and my problem is not the length or the content of the flashback, my problem is why this flashback here? There's nothing here that refreshes Jack's memory, he and Mitch were just talking about food.

BTW, I was able to accept the fact that memories come back to Jack conveniently because there's always something that triggers it. But here, there's nothing.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Page 80 – Yeah, the cave scene definitely runs pretty long…about 12 pages, I think.  I realize it’s a long scene, but personally, I like it for that.  Sure I could chop out 1 of the rooms, but at that point, it adds to the tension, cause you know something’s gonna go wrong in there.


Maybe it's just me, the tension building went over my head. I thought they were just scenes that show how beautiful the cave is. The tension falls flat, IMO, is because Jack and Julie sounded so hyper about the sceneries.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Again, I don’t think you can make the call about how someone will act in a situation.  I personally wouldn’t just hand over all my money, after forking out $300 already!  That’s who Jack is.  That’s actually why the Vegas Flashback is in there…it shows you early on who Jack and Mitch are. They don’t take shit.


You're deep down in a cave with three guys threatening you for money and you don't know what they're going to do. Isn't the most logical action is to give away all your money and save yourself? But again, it's not a big deal. Jack can still give all the money away and the guys will still attempt to rape Julie.


Quoted from Dreamscale
You do understand that Mitch was a ghost throughout the present day action, right?  He was only alive in Flashbacks.


Yes, I do understand, although I admit I had to re-read that scene again to understand why "Jack looks to where Mitch was standing, but he's alone."

I think the twist did its job and I was surprised, but I'm not sure how it adds to your story of Jack finding Julie.


Quoted from Dreamscale
No, I am not implying that Jack and Mitch are gay in any way.  They are best friends.  They shared countless unforgettable moments.  The difference in the end montage from the beginning montage is that now you see it wasn’t Jack and Julie doing all these unforgettable things, it was actually Jack and Mitch.  This was much more their story, than it was Jack and Julie’s story.  Think about it…Julie’s only in a few scenes, and they’re all Flashbacks.


And this is what I was getting at. If your story is really about Jack and Mitch, then the twist works. But what you setup in the beginning is about Jack's story of finding Julie, so I thought it's always about Jack and Julie. And when Jack keeps on wandering around with Mitch, I was frustrated because Jack was not trying to find his wife.

I don't think it's a good idea to hide what your story is really about. I kinda feel cheated at the end.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Addinton and Glenville are are both intended to be main characters…and likable characters.  That’s why they each have a small side plotline running parallel to the main storyline.  I wanted you to worry about Addy in the end.


If so, why don't you make Addinton your protag?


Quoted from Dreamscale
As per the Flashbacks and the amount of them, it’s just the way I wanted to put this together.  If you open your mind to them, I don’t see how they’re obtrusive or annoying.  They’re all meant to be necessary and forwarding of the story.  They’re character building flashes of the characters.


As I said before, I found them redundant, sometimes showing us the same thing that we already knew. And when they show us something new and move the story along, they're not obtrusive or annoying, they work.


Quoted from Dreamscale
I’m surprised you didn’t like the Addinton/Mum subplot.  You said you liked Addinton the best, so maybe these scenes had something to do with that.  You know?  Without them, what’s so special about Addy?  I think these scenes give him a life outside of being just another cop.


I admit the Addinton/Mum subplot had something to do with my liking for Addinton. This subplot is good at showing Addinton's character and his private life, makes him more human. Unfortunately, Addinton is not the intended protagonist and I shouldn't invest more emotion in him than in Jack. So I was just questioning: why am I treated with this subplot when I should be focusing on Jack?


Quoted from Dreamscale
Sorry you didn’t like the pacing.  I’m surprised you couldn’t recall a number of bigger scenes.  Again, the idea is not to flood the reader with constant action and the like.  IMO, big scenes hit harder when they are fewer and better spaced out.


I couldn't remember the big scenes that happen in the now. I couldn't remember how (and if there's any) Jack goes about to find Julie.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Well, you’re not alone by saying once a character commits adultery, they are a bad person.  This really surprises me, as well over 50% of spouses have cheated in real life.  Does the act of adultery make someone a bad person?  It doesn’t in my book, but if that’s how you feel, that’s OK, too.


No, a character who commits adultery is still a likable person if I understand and relate to his/her decision to cheat. Because there is so few scenes with Julie, I didn't really know her character that well and so I didn't really care about her that much.

But as you said, this is not a story about Julie when I thought it should be by reading your logline, premise, and Act I.

I think it'd be much better if you clearly show us in the beginning what this story is about.


P.S. I think The Machinist is a good movie. It gives me the thrills and I can feel the pain Christian Bale has endured.


FEATURE:

Memwipe
- Sci-Fi, Action, Thriller (114 pages) - In a world where memories can be erased by request, a Memory Erasing Specialist desperately searches for the culprit when his wife becomes a target for erasure -- with his former colleagues hot on his trail.
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George Willson
Posted: September 27th, 2010, 1:40pm Report to Moderator
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The page numbers are just references of where I was when these thoughts occurred to me as I read. Maybe they'll be helpful in knowing the context where I'm looking at these. Obviously if something changed later, I'll correct myself.

5 - I had to stop and look up Mini Moke right away since the actions going on and the descriptions confused the heck out of me. Even after figuring it out, I'm confused as to why they rented two of them. Just doesn't make sense to me. You may have to give the Mini Moke a brief description.
8 - Way too textbook a lesson. Need to tone that down a bit
13 - The oh by the way about Addinton's mum came off as forced.

My Plot Prediction at 20 pages: Hit and run driver killed their son sending Julie into a fit of depression. Jack takes her to their honeymoon place to try and rekindle the romance, but unfortunately, she's kindled a new romance somewhere else. Her new beau follows her to the place and Jack discovers the truth about them and kills them.

21 - He's got a snappy new outfit but still looks like a rough night?
26 - I find I nailed a couple points dead on. I should have gotten the guy going depressed as well since fathers who lose sons usually do in these stories. I lose points for not mentioning that.
34 - I'm sure hoping the deal with Addinton's mom rings relevant later. And the foreshadow? Meh, I already figured that out.
44 - Not sure if anyone else pointed this out to you, but clearly you're using a screenwriting program since it word-wrapped you improperly with the "played...yesterday" part of the dialogue. It's not one word, it's two. You should have popped a space in between the ellipsis and "yesterday" so the word wrap would wrap it correctly.
51 - A little misdirection with woodie? Nice try. Too easy.
54 - Hm, option 2 was my guess, but since you out and out stated it, I'm hoping something else happened.
55 - Nice twist with Mitch's being on the island for 3 days
63 - The affair is with Mitch. Jack never saw the guy. He's been there for three days and didn't want Jack to know that. Classic.
65 - That word wrap thing again "conversation...nothing"
70 - The Glenville-Shauntee scene. I know you wanted the rack in there, but we already knew this scene was coming, so it actually has neither plot nor character benefit...so far.
86 - Another Glenville-Shauntee scene. Still contributes nothing to the story.
91 - If they blocked the entrance, how did Jack get in?
91 - Now ask yourself if all that time wasted was worth it to say that Glenville was sexing up Shauntee and couldn't answer his phone. Waiting to see if it's even necessary for him to be there or if he could get the "night off" and no one will care.
93 - Jack exits from a restroom? Really? On the verge of learning the truth and he has to use the restroom? Why?

So at the end of the story, the part I missed was that it was Jack, not Julie who did the depression bit. Everything else was dead on. I knew the entire story from my pause at page 20 to actually write it down, though I obviously picked up on it earlier. I was hoping it was a big surprise since I figured out that Mitch was the lover, but I failed to get (until Mitch went over the edge) that Mitch was not really there. So I actually nailed your plot. How does that make you feel? I was interested a couple of times when you had me thinking that you were going to surprise me (I honestly thought he stashed her body in the caves, but you fooled me), but then you pulled it out and got right back on the original track. You've got to figure out what the audience expects in your story and don't go there. Aim that way, sure, but don't actually follow the path.

Beyond that, the story was decent. You did a good job for the seven weeks. You fleshed out the relationship between Jack, Julie, and Mitch just fine. I did like the ending when you revealed that the adventure was between Jack and Mitch and that Julie came in later to possibly disrupt their friendship. It was a great addition.

I get that the point of Addinton's mother was for foreshadow purposes and to give us the dragonfly picture. Guess what? That image wasn't worth it. Personally, I would cut the entire mother subplot as well as the Glenville-Shauntee encounter you'll tighten this script considerably.

I think it was a good effort, but needs some more work, especially in the department of predictability. If this were someone else's script, I can see you having a field day with it.


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