Hey Pia, thanks for responding.  Just a couple replies for you.

“I think you misread me there Jeff. I don't think I said I didn't like it. I only pointed out the things that I didn't like or thought could go or need a change.” – I was responding to your comment of “I have to be honest, the script didn't fulfill the promise of the beginning”, in context of you saying you liked the first 25 pages.  Usually, the reverse is true for my scripts, as I tend to backload them.


“I think you did a good job with this script and I think it was mysterious enough to fall into the thriller genre. I also liked the world that you created.” – That’s cool.  Thanks.

“I'm not a moral judge. I can't remember for certain now, but I think it went against how I had first pictured him.”  - That was completely intentional.  Both Jack and Julie come off as very likable characters who are very much in love.  As you proceed, you find that’s not really the case.

That doesn't exactly leaves us with a good feeling. Sort of like we were scammed in the beginning.” – Well, I wouldn’t use the word “scammed”, maybe “fooled into believing…”.

“Yes, I did miss the ghost twist and when you told me about it...I didn't like it.” – Hmmm, I’m still amazed you didn’t get this crucial part of the script.  It’s really what the whole thing hinges on.

OK, Pia, I just wanted to throw those few comments out.  I do appreciate your feedback very much.

Take care.

Hey Herman, thanks for responding back.  Just want to clarify a few things.

“I'd say half of the script works for me and half of it doesn't. But it's still enjoyable.” – OK, the enjoyable part, I like to hear.  But the half of the script working and not working is tough to follow.  What half works for you and what half doesn’t work?

“True. That particular ski hill scene didn't say it took place in Barbados, but the previous scene did. So it gave me the illusion that the entire montage, including the sky diving, scuba diving, and skiing took place at the same place. It's not until the church scene that I finally realized this is a series of unrelated events.” – Actually, not true.  The entire montage does not give any actual geographical locations.  In the “UNDERWATER” Slug, it does mention “Caribbean lobsters”, but that’s it.  Caribbean lobsters are found all over the Caribbean.  There’s nothing in the other montage scenes that mention anything about Barbados or the Caribbean.

“But I think your script does have a standard structure, that's how most stories work. You have a setup, a middle, and an ending. It doesn't matter whether they are in chronological order or not.” – Hmmm, I think we’re on different pages here.  Nothing is out of chronological order (other than a few Flashback scenes).  The story is being told through Jack’s Flashbacks.

“I'm not saying the flashbacks are confusing to follow. What I meant is it's just frustrating when your main story is moving along and then we flashed to some incidents that don't relate to what we are doing now.” – I guess you’re missing the point here, Herman…or at least the point I’m trying to make.  You’re viewing this as 2 separate stories, apparently, and it’s not.  It’s one story, being told in 2 different timelines.  IMO, everything relates to everything here. What you see in the Flashbacks, is what’s driving the events to take place, both in the Flashbacks, and in present time.  Do you see what I’m getting at, or not?

“I still don't understand why you don't have Mitch go to the hospital even if he's a ghost. Isn't it more logical to have Mitch visit Jack and then they both leave the hospital together? It just rubs me the wrong way that Jack would sneak out of the hospital because of a friend who just got off the plane.” – OK, listen, as I stated a few other times in other posts, originally, I wanted Mitch to come to the hospital, but it wouldn’t work.  Here’s why…Jack didn’t have his car.  How would Jack and Mitch travel?  I couldn’t have them in a cab, cause it wouldn’t make sense.  So, how would they feasibly leave the hospital?  They can’t.  That’s why Jack has to leave on his own.  Do you understand what I’m saying?

“The abundance of flashbacks also made for a very disjointed story. I didn't know which is your A-story, the story I need to pay more attention to. I don't mean to sound harsh, but I did groan several times when I read flashbacks and thought they would lead us to something but found out they don't.” – Again, this is all one story, being told in a non standard way.  You need to pay attention to everything, as everything is inter-related.

“In regards to Benjamin Button, the main story is obviously Ben's life all told in flashbacks. The scenes in the hospital are very few and it's just a device to link between a large gap in time between each flashback. I knew exactly which story I need to focus on.” – Understood, but you do understand that in Benjamin Button, the “current story” was of Daisy as an old lady now, and her daughter…it was Daisy’s way of telling her daughter all about Ben.  On could easily argue that every single scene in the present time was not necessary…and it really wasn’t, but then again, we wouldn’t have known what ever happened to Daisy.  Since Daisy was such an important character throughout the story, it’s a great way (and a unique way) of finishing out her storyline as well.

What I found dull and uneventful is our protagonist, Jack, not doing anything interesting. What you setup in the beginning is whether Jack will find his wife despite his amnesia. But throughout the story, Jack doesn't seem to try to find his wife. He just wanders around with Mitch and talks to Addinton on the phone. I just feel the meat of your story didn't deliver what your promised in the beginning.” – But again, the meat of this story is in the Flashbacks.  It’s still the same story, it just took place before the script proper began.  And, again, keep in mind that Jack was found around 8:00AM, and taken to the hospital.  He’s checked out, cleaned up, and then he leaves to meet Mitch.  What would you like him to do?  Go from resort to resort and restaurant to restaurant, asking if anyone’s seen his wife since the last day?  You said earlier that you don’t think Jack should even leave the hospital because he’s too messed up.  The present time “story” takes place in less than 14 hours.

Inserting genre-specific action is not generic because that's what makes a story fit in a particular genre. You can't have a horror movie that only delivers the thrill in the last 20 minutes but nothing else before it. Even for the very dramatic The Sixth Sense, there are horror moments throughout.” – Ah…funny…I completely disagree with you about having a horror movie delivering the thrills late.  “Wolf Creek” is a great example of a very effective horror movie that doesn’t get to the horror until well into the last half.  Also, interesting you mention “The Sixth Sense”, as my script shares common elements and themes with it.

“And this is related to what I was talking about: inserting genre-specific action throughout the script. And I don't mean gunfight and chase scene. For examples, here are two good turning points: 1) Jack seeing Julie arguing with a white man for the first time, and 2) discovering that Mitch had already been checked in for 3 day instead of 1. They change the course of the story, they change how we perceive the story. These things make the story more interesting.” – Jack remembered Julie talking to someone on the beach through a Flashback.  Addinton never told Jack that Mitch had checked in 3days earlier.

“And IMO, there isn't enough thrills to in this thriller. What I mean is, there is no tension. You allude to some tension when Jack remembers that he sent Woodie to kill off Julie and Addinton asks Jack if he remembers anything. But then Addinton just stops probing, and the tension dies. If Addinton did find out about the transaction between Jack and Woodie, then it'll become more tense.” – Well, as I’ve said, this isn’t pure “thriller”. It’s a hybrid, and shares elements of a mystery, and a few other genres as well.  Jack never sent Woodie to kill anyone.

“But they're just paying a Mitch a visit. They just wanted to talk to him to see what's going on. They're not arresting him. What if Mitch opens the door and he sees two cops with their guns drawn already? (It's a rhetorical question.) I just think it's pretty premature for the cops to assume that Mitch might be the one who killed Julie. But anyway, it's not a big deal.” – Actually, you may be surprised how often cops pull their guns to make sure everything’s cool.  As far as I’m concerned, I see absolutely nothing remotely surprising about this.

“It doesn't matter whether he's having a stomach ache or simply wasted, and my problem is not the length or the content of the flashback, my problem is why this flashback here? There's nothing here that refreshes Jack's memory, he and Mitch were just talking about food.” – The Flashback was of Jack and Mitch talking…just like Jack and Mitch were just talking.  Jack already remembered the Vegas trip, so now he is remembering what happened when they got back.  Is it necessary?  Of course, it’s not, but IMO, it’s a fun scene and it’s the first time we see Mitch and Julie together.  We see the relationship all 3 shared together briefly.

“Maybe it's just me, the tension building went over my head. I thought they were just scenes that show how beautiful the cave is. The tension falls flat, IMO, is because Jack and Julie sounded so hyper about the sceneries.” – I don’t follow this at all.  I don’t know why you wouldn’t expect there to be something about to happen with a long Flashback like that.  Since there was a definite payoff for the scene, I think the question is whether or not it’s too long, and I don’t think shaving off a page or so makes a difference.  But, we’re all different.

“You're deep down in a cave with three guys threatening you for money and you don't know what they're going to do. Isn't the most logical action is to give away all your money and save yourself? But again, it's not a big deal. Jack can still give all the money away and the guys will still attempt to rape Julie.” – Herman, what’s logical for you, isn’t necessarily logical for everyone else.  What would you do if you were in Vegas, partying with a friend and 2 prostitutes, and 2 thugs burst into your room?  Would you just sit there and ask what they’re doing in your room?  Would you let them get the upper hand on your and let them rob you?  Or would you jump up, and start throwing blows at them?  Or, would you answer that the question is meaningless because you’d never be in that scenario in the first place?  Either way, everyone reacts differently to different situations.  And again, if I was in either situation, I’d do whatever I possibly could to at least go down swinging.  Some people are hunters, and some are prey.  But, even in the wilds, sometimes the prey fights back, which isn’t what the hunter is expecting.

“Yes, I do understand, although I admit I had to re-read that scene again to understand why "Jack looks to where Mitch was standing, but he's alone." – He’s alone because “Mitch” was never there in the flesh, as he was killed the night before.

“I think the twist did its job and I was surprised, but I'm not sure how it adds to your story of Jack finding Julie.” – Well, I’m glad the twist did its job for you and you were surprised.  Would Jack have found what happened to Julie without Mitch’s “help”?  I don’t think so.

“And this is what I was getting at. If your story is really about Jack and Mitch, then the twist works. But what you setup in the beginning is about Jack's story of finding Julie, so I thought it's always about Jack and Julie. And when Jack keeps on wandering around with Mitch, I was frustrated because Jack was not trying to find his wife.” – Well, I’m not sure what to say to this.  Most setups are set up to surprise…to keep the reader/viewer off guard.  And again, Jack wouldn’t have found Julie without Mitch’s return.

“I don't think it's a good idea to hide what your story is really about. I kinda feel cheated at the end.” – I’m surprised you’d say this.  You must not like any twist endings, then.  Do you feel cheated when you watch a cheap horror movie where the killer’s finally revealed at the end and it makes no sense at all?  I don’t. I may not be too pleased with the reveal, but I know going in what to expect.

“If so, why don't you make Addinton your protag?” – Addinton is a main protag.  He’s not the main star here, obviously and there’s no reason to make him out to be.  The main protag does not have to be a good or likable person.

“I admit the Addinton/Mum subplot had something to do with my liking for Addinton. This subplot is good at showing Addinton's character and his private life, makes him more human. Unfortunately, Addinton is not the intended protagonist and I shouldn't invest more emotion in him than in Jack. So I was just questioning: why am I treated with this subplot when I should be focusing on Jack?” – You should be focusing on everyone and everything.  What many are missing is that Jack is not a bad person.  He made some bad decisions, handled some situations incorrectly, and then, in the end, lost it.  He went nuts…crazy…bonkers.  If he had lived, he would have most likely pleaded insanity, and would most likely get away with it, because he was insane when he started killing.

“I couldn't remember the big scenes that happen in the now. I couldn't remember how (and if there's any) Jack goes about to find Julie.” – The big scenes, other than the ending, are in the Flashbacks.

“No, a character who commits adultery is still a likable person if I understand and relate to his/her decision to cheat. Because there is so few scenes with Julie, I didn't really know her character that well and so I didn't really care about her that much.” – Yes, Julie was a mystery for the most part.  You have to put the pieces together to figure her out.

“But as you said, this is not a story about Julie when I thought it should be by reading your logline, premise, and Act I.” – No, it’s not.

“I think it'd be much better if you clearly show us in the beginning what this story is about.” – That would be a completely different story, then, and a much more generic concept, which I don’t like.

“P.S. I think The Machinist is a good movie. It gives me the thrills and I can feel the pain Christian Bale has endured.” – I thought it was a shockingly slow, dull ride, with zero thrills.  What can I say?  Different strokes, bud.  Different strokes!

Thanks, Herman for playing along.  A good back and forth does wonders for insight.  I appreciate it.  Take care.

I haven't finished reading this, but I'm finding a number of things in this that I don't like.

I think this story has way too many flashbacks.  I've seen similar movies and they usually cap the flashbacks at about five or six.  I stopped counting at fifteen.  These flashbacks make the rest of the script disjointed.  Each beginning and end is like a stop sign and they're distracting.

I don't like how Jack left the hospital because his buddy, Mitch, said to do so.  It was too unrealistic for me.  I can appreciate the situation of the disappearing wife, but I don't think anyone would take such advice from his beer buddy.

Some of your dialog appeared on-the-nose.  A great example of this is on page 37:

Quoted Text                GLENVILLE The Almond, huh? That place is high class...just opened three years ago...cream of the crop.

Is Glenville a travel agent?  Because he really sold this place.  He could've just have said "The Almond?"  And followed it up with a WHISTLE.

I understand that the 7WC are rushed and there are problems in doing them; I personally wouldn't want to participate in one, myself.  Given this, I think it's good.  I think that, sometime in the near future, you should do a rewrite of this.

One thing that really bothered me was the opening montage (I forgot to mention this earlier).  The images that you show us are fast going and active, almost extreme.  And you're going to have a slow moving song like 'Unforgettable' playing in the background?  It didn't match up, or work, for me.


Phil

Hey George, thanks so much for the read and comments.  I really appreciate it!

“5 - I had to stop and look up Mini Moke right away since the actions going on and the descriptions confused the heck out of me. Even after figuring it out, I'm confused as to why they rented two of them. Just doesn't make sense to me. You may have to give the Mini Moke a brief description.” – Never even thought about describing them.  IMO, it’s kind of like having to describe what a Lexus SUV looks like.  Hopefully, anyone not familiar with the Moke will look it up online and see exactly what we’re dealing with here.  In a filmed version, it’s perfectly clear, as we’d have visuals.  They rented 2 Mokes, because they have 2 schedules going on, and are staying in a rather remote area, away from cabs and the like.  They’re well to do and the extra cost means nothing to them.

“8 - Way too textbook a lesson. Need to tone that down a bit” – I’m surprised you’d say this.  Others have actually said how much they appreciate the little lesson in amnesia.

“13 - The oh by the way about Addinton's mum came off as forced.” – Someone else also mentioned that, and I guess I’ll have to relook at the scene.

“My Plot Prediction at 20 pages: Hit and run driver killed their son sending Julie into a fit of depression. Jack takes her to their honeymoon place to try and rekindle the romance, but unfortunately, she's kindled a new romance somewhere else. Her new beau follows her to the place and Jack discovers the truth about them and kills them.” – Well, pretty damn good guess here, George…but then again, IMO, it’s easy to throw out guesses, based on characters and setup (and an astute eye for plot).  More on this later when you bring it up again, as I think it’s worth discussing.

“21 - He's got a snappy new outfit but still looks like a rough night?” – His face is all beat up still.

“26 - I find I nailed a couple points dead on. I should have gotten the guy going depressed as well since fathers who lose sons usually do in these stories. I lose points for not mentioning that.” – Yes, you did.

“34 - I'm sure hoping the deal with Addinton's mom rings relevant later. And the foreshadow? Meh, I already figured that out.” – As far as I’m concerned, Addy’s Mum has a number of important roles here.  First of all, to flesh out Addy, himself and give him a life outside the cop, and secondly, she ties things together with the dragonflies and supernatural elements.  You figured out the foreshadowing?  I don’t think you did, actually…more on that later.

“44 - Not sure if anyone else pointed this out to you, but clearly you're using a screenwriting program since it word-wrapped you improperly with the "played...yesterday" part of the dialogue. It's not one word, it's two. You should have popped a space in between the ellipsis and "yesterday" so the word wrap would wrap it correctly.” – Not sure exactly what you mean here, George.  I’ll have to look at the actual PDF to see what’s happening.  I don’t want a space between an ellipses, though…that’s not how they work.

“51 - A little misdirection with woodie? Nice try. Too easy.” – Yeah, I think this type of story needs some potential misdirection.  In a way, I look at this kind of thing as a potential red herring when something seems so obvious, it can’t be true…but then again, maybe it is?

“54 - Hm, option 2 was my guess, but since you out and out stated it, I'm hoping something else happened.” – Another red herring…sort of…

“55 - Nice twist with Mitch's being on the island for 3 days” – Yes, the plot thickens.

“63 - The affair is with Mitch. Jack never saw the guy. He's been there for three days and didn't want Jack to know that. Classic.” – Yeah, I really didn’t try to hide the fact that Mitch is the other guy.  By not hiding it, I was actually trying to draw attention away from the true twist.

“65 - That word wrap thing again "conversation...nothing" – Yeah, I’ll check it out.

“70 - The Glenville-Shauntee scene. I know you wanted the rack in there, but we already knew this scene was coming, so it actually has neither plot nor character benefit...so far.” – Many agree with you here, George, but no way do I.  IMO, an R rated movie should provide some good T & A, if at all possible.  Almost like a good horror movie should provide some good graphic violence.  Also, it does come into play in the end.  I think each T & A scene here is well conceived and done.  They offer some stuff you don’t get to see very often in mainstream movies.

“86 - Another Glenville-Shauntee scene. Still contributes nothing to the story.” – Well, actually, it does.  If Glenville wasn’t with her, he’d be with Addy, and things would have played out very differently in the finale.

“91 - If they blocked the entrance, how did Jack get in?” – Jack got there before the entrance was blocked…and before Woodie, as well.

“91 - Now ask yourself if all that time wasted was worth it to say that Glenville was sexing up Shauntee and couldn't answer his phone. Waiting to see if it's even necessary for him to be there or if he could get the "night off" and no one will care.” – Again, IMO, the Glenville/Shawntee scenes are first all cool scenes. She’s funny.  She’s hot. She’s nude…you don’t get to see hot-ass island girls nude very often, now do you?  And again, yeah, it totally changes how things play out in the finale.

“93 - Jack exits from a restroom? Really? On the verge of learning the truth and he has to use the restroom? Why?” – Well, I don’t think the question is why did he have to use the restroom…more like, why did he go into the restroom?  He had to wash his hands after killing Woodie, as there was blood all over him.  It’s also a way of not revealing who killed Woodie immediately…keeps you guessing.  Know what I’m saying?

“So at the end of the story, the part I missed was that it was Jack, not Julie who did the depression bit. Everything else was dead on. I knew the entire story from my pause at page 20 to actually write it down, though I obviously picked up on it earlier. I was hoping it was a big surprise since I figured out that Mitch was the lover, but I failed to get (until Mitch went over the edge) that Mitch was not really there. So I actually nailed your plot. How does that make you feel? I was interested a couple of times when you had me thinking that you were going to surprise me (I honestly thought he stashed her body in the caves, but you fooled me), but then you pulled it out and got right back on the original track. You've got to figure out what the audience expects in your story and don't go there. Aim that way, sure, but don't actually follow the path.” – Hmmm, lots to say here.  The question, “how does that make you feel?”, actually sounds like a jab of some kind.  So, let’s check it out….How do I feel about you saying you had it all figured out by page 20?  I feel good, actually, cause what you figured out was exactly what I led you to figure out.  You didn’t figure out what the real twist was (Mitch being a ghost).  Nor could you have figured out how and why everything went down the way it did.  Let’s be serious here…in a script/movie like this, with a “who done it” type element, the answer is usually quite simple…it’s a main character, and here our choices are Jack, Mitch, or Woodie. It wouldn’t make much sense if one of the cops was involved, or Shawntee, or any of the other fringe characters.  As things develop and information is revealed, it becomes easier and easier to make a prediction.  Take any of the 15,000 slasher type “who done its”…it’s going to be one of the main group of characters, and as they die one by one, you’re left with a thinning group of usual suspects.  To me, it’s more important to figure out why whoever is the killer, is killing.  And usually, it makes no sense when it’s all revealed.  Also, keep in mind that Jack didn’t actually kill Julie.  I’ve already rewritten the finale (slightly) so that it’s very clear that Jack tried to save her from falling with everything he has.  The big twist/reveal here, however, is that Mitch was killed by Jack, and his presence in the current time scenes is actually his ghost, back from the dead, to make sure that Jack, his best friend, doesn’t get away with it.  So, IMO, I went a completely different direction than what any audience would expect.

“Beyond that, the story was decent. You did a good job for the seven weeks. You fleshed out the relationship between Jack, Julie, and Mitch just fine. I did like the ending when you revealed that the adventure was between Jack and Mitch and that Julie came in later to possibly disrupt their friendship. It was a great addition.” – Cool, glad you understand the meaning of the final montage, and that it was really a story of Jack and Mitch (which again, isn’t what any audience would be thinking throughout).  I don’t want to imply that Julie was disrupting anything between them, because she didn’t.  Jack and Mitch routinely went on trips together, and Julie was cool with that.  She wasn’t in to the stuff that Jack and Mitch were.  She didn’t ski, she didn’t golf, she didn’t kayak, etc.  She wasn’t a sports person, but knowing that Jack was, she was cool with it.

“I get that the point of Addinton's mother was for foreshadow purposes and to give us the dragonfly picture. Guess what? That image wasn't worth it. Personally, I would cut the entire mother subplot as well as the Glenville-Shauntee encounter you'll tighten this script considerably.” – A few others are in agreement with you here, but I definitely am not.  Both Mrs. Harewood and Shawntee give the cops “character”.  They make them real people with lives outside of just being generic cops.  Without those scenes, what would you think of Addy and Glenville?  Probably, not much, because all they’d be is cops.

“I think it was a good effort, but needs some more work, especially in the department of predictability. If this were someone else's script, I can see you having a field day with it.” – Well, I’ve discussed the predictability element at length above.  Hopefully you see what I’m saying and are in agreement…maybe not…we’ll see what you have to say.  Also, if this was someone else’s script, I’d be impressed, cause I highly doubt I would have been able to figure out what went down, why, and how.  All my T’s are crossed, and all my I’s are dotted.  I tried hard to connect everything and provide closure for all the major characters.  Why do you say I’d have a field day with the script if it were someone else’s?

Thanks so much for your thoughts, George.  I look up to you as one of a handful of resident screenwriting experts, in terms of your knowledge and formatting expertise.

Take care.

Thanks for getting started, Phil.  I don’t think you’ve ever read an entire script from me…hopefully you will be able to finish this one and let me know your thoughts.

“I haven't finished reading this, but I'm finding a number of things in this that I don't like.” - Uh oh…that’s not what I like to hear!

“I think this story has way too many flashbacks.  I've seen similar movies and they usually cap the flashbacks at about five or six.  I stopped counting at fifteen.  These flashbacks make the rest of the script disjointed.  Each beginning and end is like a stop sign and they're distracting.” – We;;, yeah, there are a shitload of Flashbacks here…23 in all, I think.  It’s one story, told on 2 different timelines.

“I don't like how Jack left the hospital because his buddy, Mitch, said to do so.  It was too unrealistic for me.  I can appreciate the situation of the disappearing wife, but I don't think anyone would take such advice from his beer buddy.” – You’re not alone here, but hopefully, when you finish, you’ll understand why it goes down the way it does here.  BTW, Mitch is much more than just a “beer buddy”.  They are best friends and have quite a history together.

Some of your dialog appeared on-the-nose.  A great example of this is on page 37:  Is Glenville a travel agent?  Because he really sold this place.  He could've just have said "The Almond?"  And followed it up with a WHISTLE.” – Well, I see what you’re saying. But does it really matter?  It’s 3 lines of dialogue that could be chopped to 1.

“I understand that the 7WC are rushed and there are problems in doing them; I personally wouldn't want to participate in one, myself.  Given this, I think it's good.  I think that, sometime in the near future, you should do a rewrite of this.” – Thanks.  Yeah, it’s tough…it goes fast and the added pressure of writing on a genre and theme you don’t choose, makes it even more difficult.  I’ve just about gotten the rewrite done.  Nothing to major, just a few fixes here and there.

“One thing that really bothered me was the opening montage (I forgot to mention this earlier).  The images that you show us are fast going and active, almost extreme.  And you're going to have a slow moving song like 'Unforgettable' playing in the background?  It didn't match up, or work, for me.” -  hear what you’re saying, but I really don’t agree at all. In my head, I can totally see this working very well.  I think the slow song works well with the “fast” action.  But maybe that’s just me…or maybe it’s just you?  Who knows.

Anyway, thanks, Phil.  I hope you continue and give me the rest of your thoughts.

Take care.

Quoted from Dreamscale Hey George, thanks so much for the read and comments.  I really appreciate it!

You're welcome. Anytime.

Quoted from Dreamscale They rented 2 Mokes, because they have 2 schedules going on, and are staying in a rather remote area, away from cabs and the like.  They’re well to do and the extra cost means nothing to them.

The idea that people on their honeymoon would have two different schedules is really, really bizarre to me. As they are now, I get it, but on their honeymoon? Who books a honeymoon and then plan to go their separate ways once there? On my honeymoon, my wife and I went everywhere together. Heck, we go everywhere together on our vacations too. The thought of "I want to go over here, and you won't" never even occurred to us.

Quoted from Dreamscale “8 - Way too textbook a lesson. Need to tone that down a bit” – I’m surprised you’d say this.  Others have actually said how much they appreciate the little lesson in amnesia.

The information isn't the problem here. It's the delivery. He sounds like he's reading the info out of an encyclopedia. By "tone it down," I mean that you need to tone down the bookishness of the explanation. Find a more natural way to say the same thing. If you say these lines out loud a few times, you'll probably naturally find how they would best be spoken.

Quoted from Dreamscale “13 - The oh by the way about Addinton's mum came off as forced.” – Someone else also mentioned that, and I guess I’ll have to relook at the scene.

Well, it comes out of no where, and just reeks of exposition.

Quoted from Dreamscale Well, pretty damn good guess here, George…but then again, IMO, it’s easy to throw out guesses, based on characters and setup (and an astute eye for plot).  More on this later when you bring it up again, as I think it’s worth discussing.

Yeah, my wife hates me for doing this during movies.

Quoted from Dreamscale “34 - I'm sure hoping the deal with Addinton's mom rings relevant later. And the foreshadow? Meh, I already figured that out.” – As far as I’m concerned, Addy’s Mum has a number of important roles here.  First of all, to flesh out Addy, himself and give him a life outside the cop, and secondly, she ties things together with the dragonflies and supernatural elements.  You figured out the foreshadowing?  I don’t think you did, actually…more on that later.

I'm all for giving the cops character. I have no issues with that. I just think it's way too much for one minor character to get fleshed out when it could be mentioned briefly. And the foreshadowing I picked up on was that Julie was dead.

Quoted from Dreamscale Not sure exactly what you mean here, George.  I’ll have to look at the actual PDF to see what’s happening.  I don’t want a space between an ellipses, though…that’s not how they work.

I know that's not how ellipses work. But consider its appearance on paper. If the ellipsis were on a single line, there would be no space. But it's long enough to wrap to the next line and just looks wrong. The recommendation of a space was simply to trick out the program to do what one would naturally do on a typewriter.

Quoted from Dreamscale “51 - A little misdirection with woodie? Nice try. Too easy.” – Yeah, I think this type of story needs some potential misdirection.  In a way, I look at this kind of thing as a potential red herring when something seems so obvious, it can’t be true…but then again, maybe it is?

Yes, it needs misdirection, but you'll have to remember that I worked out your plot from your first act. By this point, I was anticipating your story beats and the appearance of a seedy character who turns out to be very threatening is a classic red herring. In a whodunit, the one who did it is always introduced very, very early on but as someone completely harmless. In this type of story, it is usually the person who lost their memory. Therefore, I ignored your red herrings, but kept them in mind hoping that you went some other road.

Quoted from Dreamscale “54 - Hm, option 2 was my guess, but since you out and out stated it, I'm hoping something else happened.” – Another red herring…sort of…

Not really.

Quoted from Dreamscale “55 - Nice twist with Mitch's being on the island for 3 days” – Yes, the plot thickens.

No doubt. I did like that.

Quoted from Dreamscale “63 - The affair is with Mitch. Jack never saw the guy. He's been there for three days and didn't want Jack to know that. Classic.” – Yeah, I really didn’t try to hide the fact that Mitch is the other guy.  By not hiding it, I was actually trying to draw attention away from the true twist.

I will admit that this did make me think that I was wrong about my assertion in the beginning. I figured him for killing them both, and suddenly, the other guy is still alive.

Quoted from Dreamscale “70 - The Glenville-Shauntee scene. – Many agree with you here, George, but no way do I.

I kept this scene in mind as it all played out, and while it provides the delay for Glenville to reach the end, their actual conversation and activities are throwaway for the reason I mentioned: we already knew about it. It doesn't add to the character because nothing happens here we can't imagine better on our own. And it doesn't benefit the overall plot. Now don't misunderstand me. This piece of the story benefits the overall plot because he misses his phone call later. However, seeing it play out adds nothing. I would personally have a 10 second scene giving us the gist of the encounter and then cut away. It doesn't warrant all the time you gave it.

Quoted from Dreamscale “91 - If they blocked the entrance, how did Jack get in?” – Jack got there before the entrance was blocked…and before Woodie, as well.

That's fair given how it eventually played out.

Quoted from Dreamscale Again, IMO, the Glenville/Shawntee scenes are first all cool scenes. She’s funny.  She’s hot. She’s nude…you don’t get to see hot-ass island girls nude very often, now do you?  And again, yeah, it totally changes how things play out in the finale.

I guess this is just a difference of opinion. I feel that every scene should contribute to the plot and/or character in some way. These scenes are akin to a character telling us they must use the restroom, the camera following him into the restroom, watching him pee, washing his hands and then strolling back. If a character has to use he restroom, we're all familiar enough with the process that we don't need to see it to get it. When Glenville and Shauntee talk about his "civic duty," I'm sure few missed what was going to happen. A quick view of a portion of these scenes, and we get it. I believe that if you're going to have your nude/sex shots, they need to serve a purpose beyond just "being cool."

Quoted from Dreamscale Well, I don’t think the question is why did he have to use the restroom…more like, why did he go into the restroom?

True, this made more sense later. I'm not one to talk about strange actions that explained later.

Quoted from Dreamscale Hmmm, lots to say here.  The question, “how does that make you feel?”, actually sounds like a jab of some kind.

Not a jab. Just a question. Nothing I say is meant to be personal.

Quoted from Dreamscale So, let’s check it out….How do I feel about you saying you had it all figured out by page 20?  I feel good, actually, cause what you figured out was exactly what I led you to figure out.  You didn’t figure out what the real twist was (Mitch being a ghost).  Nor could you have figured out how and why everything went down the way it did...  So, IMO, I went a completely different direction than what any audience would expect.

"He raises the shaft over his head, ready to swing." You can only say he didn't kill Julie because the ground gave way before his swing came down. He was going to kill her. He had the intent. To give him a measure of heroism there at the end by trying to save her doesn't change that.

And to say it goes a completely different direction...I kind of disagree. Did I get your "real" twist? No. You hid that one well within a near completely cliche plot. However, I've seen it done before. When I got your twist, I wasn't shocked or reeled by it because it just moved it into a more psychological category instead of just a standard thriller. I figured Mitch was a mental projection created by Jack himself as opposed to any kind of ghost. Thing is, it didn't matter. I got it and just said, "oh that." It didn't surprise me. I just didn't catch that one ahead of time.

And I have no problem at all when the killer is someone you don't expect. Someone with minimal screen time. In most cop dramas, the one who did it is a witness they interview within the first 10 minutes and we don't see them again until the last 5.

I am also well aware of the formulaic slasher. I make every effort to avoid said formula myself. Even my stereotypical slasher uses someone that seems to be completely outside the circle as the ultimate killer. She's obvious, but she's not formula. I think it's ok to setup a stereotypical plot, but I also think that it's our responsibility to think that plot out and avoid all the obvious avenues. Imagine the possibilities if Julie was killed in the cave, which is where she had been the whole time. Then Jack still kills Mitch himself but is actually innocent of Julie's death along with feeling the remorse of it all. I doubt anyone would expect that. That's not a suggestion. Just a random thought as I consider taking a plot off the beaten path.

Quoted from Dreamscale “Beyond that, the story was decent. You did a good job for the seven weeks. You fleshed out the relationship between Jack, Julie, and Mitch just fine. I did like the ending when you revealed that the adventure was between Jack and Mitch and that Julie came in later to possibly disrupt their friendship. It was a great addition.” – Cool, glad you understand the meaning of the final montage, and that it was really a story of Jack and Mitch (which again, isn’t what any audience would be thinking throughout).  I don’t want to imply that Julie was disrupting anything between them, because she didn’t.  Jack and Mitch routinely went on trips together, and Julie was cool with that.  She wasn’t in to the stuff that Jack and Mitch were.  She didn’t ski, she didn’t golf, she didn’t kayak, etc.  She wasn’t a sports person, but knowing that Jack was, she was cool with it.

It's hard not to draw that conclusion, actually. You see the relationship these two men had and then throw the woman into the mix. When you find they did all this other stuff and Julie wasn't part of it, she feels like a disruption. In fact, it feels like Mitch tried to ruin their relationship so he could get his real friend back.

Quoted from Dreamscale “I get that the point of Addinton's mother was for foreshadow purposes and to give us the dragonfly picture. Guess what? That image wasn't worth it. Personally, I would cut the entire mother subplot as well as the Glenville-Shauntee encounter you'll tighten this script considerably.” – A few others are in agreement with you here, but I definitely am not.  Both Mrs. Harewood and Shawntee give the cops “character”.  They make them real people with lives outside of just being generic cops.  Without those scenes, what would you think of Addy and Glenville?  Probably, not much, because all they’d be is cops.

The character part is fine, but you can give them character without giving them so much screen time. It doesn't take much to build character. They need a voice and a life outside of the plot. Easiest way to do this is give them something that happened before the story began and something to look forward to after the story is over. This can be accomplished in a few lines of dialogue. Addison can still have his mother issue. That is also fine. But it just doesn't need the time. I've already stated my feelings on the Glenville scene.

Quoted from Dreamscale “I think it was a good effort, but needs some more work, especially in the department of predictability. If this were someone else's script, I can see you having a field day with it.” – Well, I’ve discussed the predictability element at length above.  Hopefully you see what I’m saying and are in agreement…maybe not…we’ll see what you have to say.  Also, if this was someone else’s script, I’d be impressed, cause I highly doubt I would have been able to figure out what went down, why, and how.  All my T’s are crossed, and all my I’s are dotted.  I tried hard to connect everything and provide closure for all the major characters.  Why do you say I’d have a field day with the script if it were someone else’s?

Well, maybe you wouldn't. My biggest issue is that it is very predictable. You hint at going other way but you never do. I could just imagine your being rather vocal about that, but perhaps not. Not a biggie.

I think it would make a nice little flick if someone just wants a basic thriller, but I can't see it as something that would draw attention away from anything else. Now, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. Those types of movies are made all the time. People like them. They are comfortable with them. I was just hoping for more.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I liked the juxtaposition of the slow song with the action shots in the intro.

George, just a couple more things…

“The idea that people on their honeymoon would have two different schedules is really, really bizarre to me.” – Well, the two schedules had to do with this trip, obviously…but…when they were here 10 years ago on their Honeymoon, Jack already knew Julie wouldn’t be golfing, wouldn’t be SCUBA diving, etc.  I guess I’d look at it like everyday life…each person has their own means of transportation.

“The information isn't the problem here. It's the delivery. He sounds like he's reading the info out of an encyclopedia.” – OK, I’ll relook at it, but I have spoken those lines numerous times, and to me, they sound fine.  They are coming from a doctor…

I'm all for giving the cops character. I have no issues with that. I just think it's way too much for one minor character to get fleshed out when it could be mentioned briefly. And the foreshadowing I picked up on was that Julie was dead.” – The foreshadowing of Julie’s demise has been changed already in the rewrite, but I’m not going to cut any Mrs. Harewood or Shawntee scenes

I kept this scene in mind as it all played out, and while it provides the delay for Glenville to reach the end, their actual conversation and activities are throwaway for the reason I mentioned: we already knew about it…” – I am not in the school that believe everything has to move the story/plot forward, etc.  If a scene provides entertainment, etc, I’m all for it.

I guess this is just a difference of opinion. I feel that every scene should contribute to the plot and/or character in some way.” – Yep, agreed.  As I just said, if a scene provides entertainment (in whatever form, even gratuitous violence or gratuitous sex/nudity…I’m all over it and all for it!

"He raises the shaft over his head, ready to swing." You can only say he didn't kill Julie because the ground gave way before his swing came down. He was going to kill her. He had the intent. To give him a measure of heroism there at the end by trying to save her doesn't change that.” – That scene has been changed slightly to show Jack started to come around and realize what the Hell he was doing.  In the rewrite, he m,akes a good effort to save her and he doesn’t raise the shaft at her.

“And to say it goes a completely different direction...I kind of disagree….” – OK, I guess we just see things a bit differently here.  IMO, this “simple and/or cliché plot” isn’t so simple or cliché, based on the structure, the twist, and the way everything went down.

“And I have no problem at all when the killer is someone you don't expect. Someone with minimal screen time.” – I hate those type of scripts/movies.  IMO, it’s a very weak way to keep the mystery going.

“It's hard not to draw that conclusion, actually. You see the relationship these two men had and then throw the woman into the mix. When you find they did all this other stuff and Julie wasn't part of it, she feels like a disruption. In fact, it feels like Mitch tried to ruin their relationship so he could get his real friend back.” – Makes sense.  All three were great friends though, and I’m not sure if you caught it or not, but Mitch dated Julie before Jack did.

“The character part is fine, but you can give them character without giving them so much screen time. It doesn't take much to build character. They need a voice and a life outside of the plot. Easiest way to do this is give them something that happened before the story began and something to look forward to after the story is over. This can be accomplished in a few lines of dialogue.” – Well, sure you can, but that’s not very visually stimulating or moving.  IMO, showing fringe characters interacting with main characters gives everything a much more “real” feel.  I also feel that the reason people like Addy and Glenville is because they actually have a life outside of just being cops.

“Well, maybe you wouldn't. My biggest issue is that it is very predictable. You hint at going other way but you never do. I could just imagine your being rather vocal about that, but perhaps not. Not a biggie.” – George, you are the only person of over 50 readers who thought it was predictable in any way.  I can live with that.

“I think it would make a nice little flick if someone just wants a basic thriller, but I can't see it as something that would draw attention away from anything else. Now, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. Those types of movies are made all the time. People like them. They are comfortable with them. I was just hoping for more.” – Well, I tried to deliver more, apparently it just didn’t come off that way to you.  All we can do is try…

“Oh, and for what it's worth, I liked the juxtaposition of the slow song with the action shots in the intro.” – Sweet!  Me too.

Thanks again.

"The Glenville-Shauntee scene. I know you wanted the rack in there, but we already knew this scene was coming, so it actually has neither plot nor character benefit...so far.”  quote George Wilson

For me the scenes between the young couple were just another example of the seductive lushness of the place -- there are delights around every corner, it takes a sort of warped determination for Jack to be miserable in such a place.  

Thanks, Catherine.  Yes, beauty and pleasure are available in abundance on the island.  But so are evil and death....

BWOOOHAHA!!!!!!

Jeff,

Since we had our little run-in yesterday, and I attacked this script, I felt a more level headed explanation is called for. You told me to give this a look. I didn't like the opening or the way it tells its story. I've skimmed comments, tweny-something flashbacks just put me off. I think if you played "Devil's Advocate" and read this as if it were written by someone other then yourself, you would agree. That many flashbacks has to be a record in any movie I've ever seen.

I will never fault your writing. Actually quite fond of your opening scenes. I know you ski. Have tried and failed miserably of late. But, you have a way of describing it that only people of experience can understand.

Lots of "ly" wording. Which I've seen you attack. I don't know what MOKE's are. Maybe a description would help.

GLENVILLE
You remember them from ten years
ago? That's quite a memory, Corbin.

Always have a problem with chracters saying each others name in dialogue. Would you address your friend that way? I rarely ever say their names, lest to get their attention. Just doesn't read real to me. I know it's a movie, I just don't agree with it.

(beat) is worn out and old school screen writing IMO. You do fine with your elipses...
JULIE
You're funny...but I love you. - Again, This doesn't sound real to me. I would think she would love him because he makes her laugh. Maybe it's jus me.

I really don't know what a Bajan accent sounds like. Think you should write it that way. If it sounds different at all.

Spent a month in Seattle as a traveling welder. Got a day off to go to Mt. rainier. Was cloud covered when I got there. Really has nothing to do with this script. Moving on...

Okay. At page 14. Nothing substantial has happened yet IMO. I think something should've by this point. I know Julie has dissappeared. But would've liked to see it in some shocking fashion by now. Smack the reader across the face. Wake them up!

Gonna stop here for now. I don't consider myself a good reviewer. I just wanted to address what I thought about your opening. Yes, you wrote a feature. Congrats. I may never post one.

Maybe it was because I skimmed all of the other 7WC and got board with the topic. I just couldn't get through this.

You're still an asshole. I just can't stomach twenty something flashbacks to tell a story.

James

James, hope you’re feeling OK after the long bender you’ve been on (and I mean that seriously, BTW).

I appreciate your comments and the fact that you attempted to read my script.  I know you don’t like my writing, or reading feature length scripts in general, so even an attempt from you here is cool with me.

I’m sorry you didn’t like the opening or the way it sets the story up.  I went with something out of the box and different, and am not surprised some do not like it.  Yes, there are 23 Flashbacks (or were at least…there are more now with the rewrite!), and you are not alone in being put off by this.  Actually, I disagree with you about me not liking such a structure if I were reading someone else’s script, as well as this being a record for # of Flashbacks.   Here’s why…

First of all, keep in mind that in a filmed version, you’re not going to see “Flashback” pop up or anything irritating like that.  You’re just going to see an event that took place in the past, and you’ll understand that immediately.  It really shouldn’t be glaring or take you out of the story, as they all enhance the story IMO.

In terms of this being a record among scripts or movies, I don’t know, actually.  I’ve never kept count before, but as I’ve mentioned in several posts here, take Benjamin Button for an example.  You realize that probably 90% or more of that movie is all Flashback scenes.  There are actually a number of movies that are structured that way.  Now, I understand, we have multiple timelines we’re dealing with here, but it’s actually all 1 story…it’s actually Jack’s story, as every single Flashback is a memory in Jack’s perspective that is shown to make sense of the events that have just occurred and are occurring in real time.

“I will never fault your writing. Actually quite fond of your opening scenes.” – Well, thank you for that compliment, but you’ve already told me you don’t like my writing normally, so this is nice to hear.

“ I know you ski. Have tried and failed miserably of late. But, you have a way of describing it that only people of experience can understand.” – Well, being that this is a montage, I didn’t want to be descriptive in any way.  I apologize if the words I did use are not familiar to you.

Lots of "ly" wording. Which I've seen you attack. I don't know what MOKE's are. Maybe a description would help.” – Hmmm, are there lots of “ly” words here?  I didn’t notice.  Do I attack them on a regular basis?  Not sure to be honest…I know I have in certain circumstances. Guess it depends on how or why they’re being used.  Without examples, I can’t really comment here.  Someone else commented they didn’t know what a Moke was either.  I said something to the effect of one should look up something they are not familiar with.  Giving a description here would be like giving one when using “Jeep” or “Lexus”, or “SUV” IMO.  A Moke is a small British open air vehicle, popular on Barbados and a few other Caribbean islands.

“Always have a problem with characters saying each other’s name in dialogue. Would you address your friend that way? I rarely ever say their names, lest to get their attention. Just doesn't read real to me. I know it's a movie, I just don't agree with it.” – I hear you 100% here, brother.  I really do.  BUT, in a movie, ever character has to somehow get his name across to the audience, and through dialogue is usually the best or easiest way.   I make a point not to do it too often, and to try and keep it a character trait when one uses other’s names frequently.   Corbin and Glenville are not friends, either.  Corbin is much older than Glenville, so they don’t run in the same circles.  If you were to read on, I think you’d find that once characters are intro’d to the point where you know their names, the amount of names in dialogue drops significantly.

“(beat) is worn out and old school screen writing IMO. You do fine with your elipses...” – I guess it’s a personal preference thing.  I only use (beat) to show a long pause in dialogue.

“You're funny...but I love you. - Again, This doesn't sound real to me. I would think she would love him because he makes her laugh. Maybe it's jus me.” – Maybe it’s just the way Julie talks with Jack?  Like many of my characters, Jack and Julie have a goofy side to them…a teasing, playful side.  That’s all this is.

“I really don't know what a Bajan accent sounds like. Think you should write it that way. If it sounds different at all.” – It’s an “island accent”.  I didn’t want to write out island slang lingo, as it would get very irritating.  Barbados is very British, so we’re not talking Jamaican or anything like that.  Many  Bajans, like Addinton, for example, are very proper and polite.

“Okay. At page 14. Nothing substantial has happened yet IMO. I think something should've by this point. I know Julie has disappeared. But would've liked to see it in some shocking fashion by now. Smack the reader across the face. Wake them up!” – Well, what can I say? People routinely say my scripts have a slow build, and I’d have to agree. I tend to backload them for sure, as I feel it’s much more important to finish on a strong note and let the ride play out big…kind of like the old rollercoaster scenario…you gotta climb the hill before you can race down.  Imo, a lot has transpired by page 14.  We’ve met the vast majority of characters. The scene is set that Julie is missing and Jack has lost his memory.  It’s a mystery thriller and things are just starting to roll.

“Maybe it was because I skimmed all of the other 7WC and got bored with the topic. I just couldn't get through this.” – That’s fine and cool.  You don’t particularly like my reading anyway, so I’m not too surprised.  Thanks for reading as much as you did.  I appreciate it.

“You're still an asshole. I just can't stomach twenty something flashbacks to tell a story.” – Not sure how I should respond to this comment, James…so I won’t.

Thanks, man.  Take care.

Quoted from Dreamscale “You're still an asshole. I just can't stomach twenty something flashbacks to tell a story.” – Not sure how I should respond to this comment, James…so I won’t. Thanks, man.  Take care.

You know, as well as I do, that was a joke. Thought after last night's confrontation, you would get that. It's a joke.

You are good at one thing that pertains to writing my friend. You play the part of wounded duck better then anyone. You can turn from being the attacker, to being attacked in no time. You make people sympathize with you. I did. It's amazing. You're gifted.

I don't like your writing. Never have. Never will. But, I wish you best. Congrats on finishing a feature. You're right. I probably never will. I guess that makes you a better story teller. Kiss, kiss, and nice hair...

James

Ha, now that's funny!

Actually, I wasn't sure if you were being serious or kidding around with the "You're still an asshole" line, so I decided not to add any fuel to the fire.

I guess I'm an enigma then, huh?  Yeah, I probably am.

Just for the sake of clarity, what is it abut my writing that you dislike so much?  What am I doing that's so different and off-putting?  I really want to know.

I should really glue that hat to my head so I'd have some hair.  It's not that my hairline is receding...it's more like, it's gone!  Damn, those were the days when I had that beautiful mullet, ponytail, thick, stand up straight in the air hair.  Fuck...where'd those days go?

Take care.

Quoted from Dreamscale those were the days when I had that beautiful mullet, ponytail, thick, stand up straight in the air hair.  Fuck...where'd those days go?

Did they let you keep your dick in a jar afterwards?

I wear the jar like a Depend diaper these days.  It makes me appear to have a huge schlong under my pants.