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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Thriller Scripts  ›  Unforgettable - 7WC Moderators: bert
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  Author    Unforgettable - 7WC  (currently 27999 views)
Don
Posted: September 5th, 2010, 3:18pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Unforgettable - 7WC by Jeff Bush (dreamscale) - Thriller - A dream vacation in Barbados quickly turns into a nightmare for Jack, when his wife disappears and he has to fight through the maze of a lost memory to find her. 105 pages - pdf, format


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stevie
Posted: September 5th, 2010, 7:22pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff. Just finished this!

I've made a few notes , which is sort of a first for me!
Well done for you and the other guys for getting the challenge done! Now you all have a script that wouldn't have been there otherwise - good job.

Jeff, you have done a tremendous amount of research on this - the settings, names, all show a great deal of painstaking assembly. Your writing is crisp and fluent as usual - I have found a few grammatical errors which I'll list but they are relatively minor and don't really affect the success of the story.

One thing I noticed which became a bit annoyiing - you have a few characters described as Bajan, which is fine. But in their inital dialogue, you put a wrylie stating they have a thick Bajan accent. Totally unnecesssary!

You have a heap of flashbacks during the script. I feel you have to go over them and use supers on some, especially the ones that are set years before the current scenes. If this was filmed, the constant FB's could get confusing to the viewer. Just my opinion though...

POSSIBLE SPOILERS****************

Ok, I'll get to the nitty gritty - the ending. I'm assuming that Jack was having mere visions of Mitch all that time? It was sort of obvious halfway through that Mitch ahd been the one having the affair with Julie. And no explaination was given at the end to say how Mitch could've survived the fall and then having his head smashed in!
i know you were using the dragonfly as a metaphor for the soul or something(I think) so maybe that was to do with it. Or perhaps you were hangin to finish and the end was a bit scrambled.
Don't get me wrong, its ok but needs to be hinted at more, I feel.

Here's some notes i made as I read:

Not sure what page but an action line reads - 'Jack continues toward the beach, dead ahead'.  This sounds a bit odd.
There are numerous instances of unneeded words having capitals: Bachelor Party, Hell, High Five, Newlyweds, etc Also DRAGONFLY and BAT could be deemed overuse of it thought e dragonfly is used to good effect.

page 28:  in the real world of Australia, ASS is spelt ARSE!!!!!  lol, couldn't resist, bro!

As I said in the PM, Nick and joe's scene at the casino doesn't really serve any purpose, but for some violence. Nicely written but added nothing to the story. The same with Glenville and Shauntee rooting later on - added for titillation. No prob with that though...
Page 34: Glenville's line...'You see patients just take off like this' should have a question mark as its sounds funny.
Page 35. Addinton's dialogue is cut the page - more - continued thing on your software.

Actually, something I noticed on the formatting of this script - there is like a double space after full stops in dialogue and action. Like a big gap that stood out for me. Obviously its to do with the settings of your software. It could cut the length of the whole thing if changed, dunno but I noticed it early on...

Pge 67 - Three new characters aren't capped.

Anyway buddy that's about it! Well done again! With a little more revision and perhaps different views of the other SSers, this will be a neat little script. I will check out the comments as people read it and get back to you!

Cheers stevie



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mcornetto
Posted: September 5th, 2010, 7:31pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from stevie

i know you were using the dragonfly as a metaphor


Jeff uses a metaphor?!  I have to read this.
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 5th, 2010, 8:06pm Report to Moderator
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First of all, thanks, Don for posting all these 7WC scripts so quickly!  And also, thank you for making such a fantastic site available to all us writers from around the world.  You rock!

Thanks, Stevie for such a quick read and review.  Totally appreciate it.

Awesome catch on Addinton's sons not being properly CAPPED upon intro.  DAMN IT!!  How'd that slip?  It's already changed.  Thanks.

SPOILERS

I'll E-Mail you with some info, cause I don't think you really "got it", based on what you said.  I was worried maybe it's not quite crystal clear enough in the finale.

I just use capitals on certain words and things, like Heaven, Hell, etc.

I'd rather steer clear from SUPERS here, and I think in a filmed version, things would be fairly easy to follow...exact years and ages aren't what matters, really.

Glad you seemed to like it, and I look forward to seeing the completed new Headlong.

Thanks, mate!
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grademan
Posted: September 5th, 2010, 10:01pm Report to Moderator
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Jeff!

Damn, this was good for a 7WC entry!  

The beginning was bumpy as I tried to navigate the montage, the number of character introductions, the flashbacks, and the setting.  Once I hit the scene with the mother’s first message, I was turning the pages quickly.

Everything flowed well except for the rhythm of the switching between scenes and flashback. I’d be interested to see if anyone noticed this.  Not a big deal.

I liked the story as is but wonder how it would have read without the supernatural impact of the dragonfly and the mother’s messages.

You did a good job of keeping my interest right thru the twists at the end.  I figured Mitch for the other guy but you twisted that one well. Good ending. Clever.

Very clean draft. Very good style also. Good to see how you do it instead of telling us how you’d do it. Show, don’t tell.

Attention to story detail was very good. Ski in Barbados? Yup just googled it.

Gary


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Dreamscale
Posted: September 6th, 2010, 10:43am Report to Moderator
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Hey Gary, thanks, man!  Appreciate the quick read, review, and compliments very much.

I knew the montage would be difficult for some, but since it’s only 2 pages, I figured I’d go for it, as it really does say a lot and come into play, when you think about things (more on that later, after others have read).

As for the character intros, Flashbacks, and settings, I don’t know.  What are you saying exactly?  There are a lot of Flashbacks for sure, but IMO, there are so many that it becomes second nature and part of the feel of the script.  As I said to Stevie, I honestly believe that in a filmed version, it would be very clear when a Flashback was occurring, and s long as you realized it was a Flashback, the exact time it happened doesn’t really matter.

SPOILERS

I will go into much more detail on the “supernatural” elements later (or I could E-mail you, if you’d like).

Glad I was able to keep your interest.  That’s always a good thing.  Very happy the twists worked for you and hope you understand completely (again, more on all this later).

I did spend a good amount of time doing research for this.  All locations are real except Shauntee’s Bar & Grill.  I spent a week on Barbados, 15 years ago.  Harrison’s Cave and Welchman Hall Gully are awesome places.

Thanks for the compliments on cleanliness and style.     I always try to edit as I write, and I’ve read this over at least 15 times, but things always seem to slip through, as Stevie noted in my missed CAPPED intros.

I’ not sure what you mean about “ski in Barbados” though.  No one was doing any skiing in Barbados.  If you’re referring to the montage scenes, that was all way in the past, and far, far away from Barbados.  I actually was going to use exact locales in the montage, but decided to keep it a bit more “dreamy”.  If it’s confusing or not 100% clear, I will make those changes.

Thanks again, Gary.  I really appreciate your input.
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: September 6th, 2010, 11:48am Report to Moderator
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I thought the skiing was supposed to be in Barbados as well, till the end.
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 6th, 2010, 12:32pm Report to Moderator
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SPOILERS     SPOILERS     SPOILERS     SPOILERS



No, no skiing in Barbados.  Barbados is a tropical island.

The skiing, sky diving, kayaking, and SCUBA diving did not take place in Barbados.  If you didn't know that, or understand now why, you are missing a MASSIVELY HUGE piece of this puzzle, which again, will have to be explained later.
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: September 6th, 2010, 3:37pm Report to Moderator
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Short review:

Overall thoughts. I enjoyed it. When the story really kicked into gear in the second half it was a very enjoyable ride.

The writing was very good, as I'd expect. It's a good script on its own merits, for a 7 week challenge it's very well done indeed.

The twists and turns were good, you got some things quite easily (I figured Mitch's story (both of them) quite early on, but it was good in that you never knew for sure.

The scene with the mother dying was very emotional, that's a side to your writing I've not seen before.

The Cons:

1. The story is interesting, but it's quite small. A guy trying to find his wife. There's nothing wrong with it per se, but it lacks a certain hook. If you could find some way of introducing a bigger story-line into what's already there (sex trafficking, drugs, politics etc) you might find a way to raise it from a good story to one that has more of a marketable USP.

2. The first half of the script developed largely through dialogue. I think you can cut down quite a lot of the chatter and build up the story more visually, particularly because you've got such a cool location. The Caribbean in general has a very intoxicating history (slavery, colonialism, its attempts to find its own voice, the music etc). It's a very colourful place and I didn't feel you quite captured enough of the ambience of the place or wound it into the script enough.

3. Also, I found that in the early scenes the flashbacks interrupted the flow and tension too much. The overriding problem with flashbacks in general is that because they've already happened they lack dramatic tension. They undermined the narrative drive of the core mystery. Sometihng to look at anyway.

4. I didn't fully believe in the characterisation of the Bajan Police force. They felt very American. There's often a lot of criticism of the Police Force over there (corruption, brutality, deference to the upper class at the expense of the poor etc). I think there's scope for more density to their portrayal...this might also allow you to introduce a further layer to the red herrings, have certain of the police seem to be part of the mystery.

But all in all, these are minor concerns, I enjoyed it.

Oh, one other thing: Thought the dragonfly thing was a bit old hat...really because it felt like it had come directly from the film "Dragonfly" with Kevin Costner (a much underrated film imo, but that's another matter). Although saying that, I still quite like it.

Rick.

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Scar Tissue Films  -  September 6th, 2010, 4:23pm
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sniper
Posted: September 6th, 2010, 4:04pm Report to Moderator
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Hey, Jeff.

I'm gonna starts off with something I just have to get off my chest: I don't think I could sit through a movie with that many people speaking with a Bajan tongue. You know, one comedic sidekick speaking Bajan is fine but 10-15 people...? Sorry. Just a personal opinion.

Okay, mon. On to da review, mon - it will include SPOILERS...mon.

As you already know, I didn't have a problem with the opening montage - or the one at the end. I thought they worked and I see now why you didn't name the TWO CHARACTERS in the beginning (obviously that would've thrown everything off). Interesting ending, bud. I thought the ending elevated this from being...somewhat mediocre into something good. It did feel a little rushed but ends have a tendancy to do that.

I was a bit worried when you introduced the dragonfly - and the way you did it as it kinda reminded of the Kevin Costner movie with the same name. I still think there's a little too many parallels that can be drawn with his dragonfly and yours (but that's also where all similarities end).

You know, at one point the interactions between Jack and Mitch actually made me think of another Kevin Costner movie, Mr. Brooks, cos' - just for a moment - I had a feeling that Jack and Mitch might be two psyches of the same person, but the scene with Julie - after they got back from Vegas - completely destroyed that.

Like Gary, I had Mitch fingered for the other guy right away. I mean, he just reeked...bad, you know. What really struck me as odd was the fact that after he "arrives at Barbados" he calls Jack at the hospital and tells Jack - who's busted up and shit - to get in a car and meet him. I understand why you did it that way - given what he really is - but that had all the alarm bells ringing. That's just wrong. Nobody would do that. I think you could easily have had him come to the hospital and pick him up without destroying the illusion.

I didn't really have any major problems with the flashbacks or the structure. Yeah, sometimes they got in the way of things but they usually do - don't they? No, my problem with the flashbacks was that they seem to come...rather convenient. Jack didn't really have a whole lot  of trouble remembering stuff when he had to. And toward the end, all Mitch had to say was "remember" and Jack would. One thing I didn't get though (or maybe it wasn't clear enough), had Jack completely suppresed the death of his son up until the flashback on pages 39-41? Or had he suppresed them, then remembered, then lost it through his amnesia and then remembered then? Either way, I don't think it was executed very well. This is a important event but you sort of breeze over it. Also this should have been the scene where Jack becomes likeable - cos' this is the biggest problem with the story.

Jack is not likeable - I imagine you want him to be - and if he had been, it would've made the ending that much stronger.

Let's go over what we know about Jack. We find him banged up, suffering from amnesia, his wife missing. Does he express concern for his wife - other than a couple of lines here and there? Does he begin a search of his own (think Harrison Ford in frantic)? Does he even seem to miss his wife? No. No. No. He hooks up with Mitch and reminisce about old times over a line of coke and a shot of booze. Exactly the opposite traits you'd want in your leading man. Watching him doing what he did made it very difficult for me to root for him. Strike that. It made it impossible for me to root for him. And this is very problematic. Even if he turns out to be "bad" in the end I still need to invest in him emotionally for this story to work for me. Now this is just my opinion of course, it'll be interesting to see how other readers feel about him.

I don't have any major problems with the writing. I would have written it differently, but hey, different folks - different strokes. Same thing goes with the dialogue. I personally think you've got too much dialogue but I know you like that stuff so I can't really fault you on that. I was surprised to see a few format hick-ups - Stevie mention the sons whose name were not capped, you also missed a (V.O.) on page 22 (Julie on the phone) - and a couple of weirdly (is that a word?) placed commas. I know you only had 7 weeks to do this one - but c'mon, this is you we're talking about here, bro, Mr. Format himself

As far as show and don't tell goes, I think you managed quite well, although I felt you did a little too much show AND tell in certain places. Some of it was overkill - especially Julie's affair. We got it the first time around. No need to hit us over the head with it so many times. Some of the flashbacks could also have been cut a little shorter me think. Unlike Stevie, I didn't feel the Vegas flashback was not needed - to me it was character development (especially for Mitch) but I do think it could have been a little shorter. However, the scenes between Shauntee and Glenville were a distraction. I didn't care about either one of them and I still fail to see what their little fling has to do with the story overall - other than resulting in Glenville showing up a little too late at the end.

But other than that I thought it was a good read. A fast read. A good ending that saved what was - in my opinion - a somewhat mediocre story.

Cheers
Rob


Down in the hole / Jesus tries to crack a smile / Beneath another shovel load
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 6th, 2010, 5:31pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Rick, thanks so much for reading and giving your valuable feedback so quickly.  I really appreciate it, and it means a lot to me.

Glad you found it enjoyable.  Like most of my scripts, the 2nd half is where I tend to kick things up. Actually, I’m a firm believer  that a movie needs to finish up on a high note, and leave a strong impression.  It’s always what I strive for, anyways.

Thank you for the compliments.  7 weeks isn’t a lot of time to come up with a concept and write a feature.  It was tough, but I really gave this everything I had and wanted to prove to myself that I could indeed do it.  Glad it showed.

I’m actually thrilled Addinton’s Mum scenes worked for you the way I planned.  It’s actually funny, cause when I was rereading the script, those scenes stuck out to me and I actually felt a little emotional, which isn’t my norm.

You may or may not be aware that pretty much all my writing is based on small concepts, that I try and infuse some different angles into.  Same goes with movies that I really like.  Small scale plots, mixed up and presented differently.  Guess it’s just the way I am.

Yeah, I’m also a chatter bug for sure.  I did make an effort to keep the banter to a minimum, but that minimum may still be too much for some.  I tried to infuse some interesting scenes and visuals into the first half to keep things entertaining.  I always am into character development in the early going, and that tends to be dialogue driven for me.  I could (and probably should) infuse a little more Bajan ambiance into things early on, but I did try, and was aware of it.

Gary said the same thing about the Flashbacks early on.  IMO, the reason they feel this way early on is because you’re not familiar with the flow of the script yet.  It is a heavy Flashback oriented script, and the more you see them, the easier it becomes to accept it for what it is.  I hear you for sure.  It was something I was concerned with early on, but once things got moving, I actually really liked the way it flowed.  It’s different for sure, and because of that alone, it may feel “different”, and sometimes, as you know, “different” can seem like a bad thing.  Will be interesting to see what others think.

I did a lot of research on Barbados, and the Royal Barbados Police Force, as well.  You are spot on in what you say.  There’s a lot of stuff about these gangs that stop people on roads, tell them the road is out, give them an alternate route, and then demand money.  The police are fully aware of this, but do nothing about it, as if they’re possibly even involved.  I didn’t want Barbados to come off as bad place, or the police to seem like bad people.  I wanted Addinton and Glenville to be likable protags, as it was key to the story.

Ah, yes, the dragonflies…I also think the Kevin Costner film of the same name was much underrated – I really liked it.  It’s kind of an odd nod to it, actually.  I wanted to use them a bit differently, but still have the audience aware that they definitely meant something.  I did a lot of research on them as well, and it’s quite astounding how much info there is on them, and what they mean to different cultures.  I decided to kind of paint my own meaning into them.  Glad you were OK with them overall.  It was one of my worries for sure, and if it proves to be an issue, they are easily replaced with something else or done away with completely.

Again, Rick, your opinion matters to me and I appreciate your time, feedback, and suggestions very much.  Thanks!!
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 7th, 2010, 12:17pm Report to Moderator
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Rob, my man, thanks so much for the quick read and comments.  Your input always means a lot to me.

Funny about the Bajan accent thing…but, you may or may not realize that the 2 main Bajan characters (Addinton and Glenville) do not speak in a thick Bajan accent, so I think you’d be OK, sitting through this.

Glad the montages worked OK for you. You know I was concerned early on with them.  As it sat for awhile, I got to thinking they’d be no problem, so thanks for telling me so now.

Very happy the ending worked for you, too. As you may or may not know, for me, the ending of a script/movie is everything, and I always try and throw the most power into the ending.  My girlfriend said she thought the finale read rushed as well, but I don’t see that…what felt rushed to you?

As I mentioned to Rick, the dragonflies were a nod to Costner’s movie, which I really enjoyed.  I did want it to share a somewhat common thread, but be completely different, like you mentioned.  We’ll see what others have to say.  I think, based on what you’re saying, you were OK with it, right?

Good, I wanted people to wonder about Jack and Mitch, and the scene you’re referring to, the Vegas aftermath, was intended to shoot down that possibility, and start the mystery up again in a different direction.  Glad you brought that up, cause it’s good to know.  It also provided a little action, nudity, and shower sex.  

SPOILERS     SPOILERS


I think it’s fairly obvious Mitch turns out to be the “other guy”, and I wasn’t trying to hide it…completely.  I originally planned on having Mitch arrive at the hospital, but IMO, that would have opened a whole new can of worms, the more I thought about how it played out.  My girlfriend agrees with you, an has told me a few times that she thinks it would work better.  but I am not completely ditching the possibility of that change, though.

Glad the Flashbacks weren’t a problem for you.  Yes, you are 100% correct, in that the Flashbacks are rather convenient, but I think they always are, as it’s really a screenwriting device for showing past experiences that the writer WANTS to show.  I tried to really mix them up and show what may seem to be very random events, but then tie them all in, in various ways.

Good question about Jack’s amnesia, involving his son,  Jimmy.   I guess you’re right, enough time is not spent here, and it’s far from clear.  Here’s what the deal is (but there’s no way anyone would know this from reading – I really didn’t think anyone would bring it up or dig that deep)…In the hours and days that passed Jimmy’s death, Jack completely blocked out the event.  As time passed, it became a subject that no one discussed.  He immediately “changed”, drinking, drugging, removing himself from life, basically.  No one had brought Jimmy’s death up in years, so at this point, he is just “remembering” it, as if it just happened.  Does that make sense?

Another great point about our main protag being unlikable…I don’t completely agree with that assessment, but I did have my doubts as was writing, so it’s a great point to discuss, and see what others think.  Do I want Jack to be likable?  Well, let’s just say I don’t want him to be completely unlikable, but as events are revealed, it’s inevitable that Jack’s likability meter will be heading downhill for sure.

There are obvious reasons why Jack does what we does, after Julie’s disappearance, and acts like he acts.  These “reasons” are revealed through various Flashbacks.  But, I think it’s important to remember that Jack doesn’t remember what happened to Julie.  The things he does remember over the course of the day are not things that put Julie in the best of lights, if you know what I’m saying.  Which kind of brings up the question, is Julie a likable character?  I’d say she’s probably not.  It will be very interesting to see what others think about this.

One thing I do want to bring up is that my hope, and assumption, is that Addinton and Glenville are likable enough that the reader will actually be rooting for them.  Which is why they each have a rather detailed character and back and side stories going on.

Yes, I am a chatter bug for sure.  Can’t help it.  I tried to cut the dialogue back, but I’m sure there’s still too much for some, like you, buddy!  I made a very conscious effort to have the dialogue be very different for different characters, and hopefully that shown through.

What can I say, man?  Yes, even the best mess up sometimes with an error here and an error there.  Great find on the missing VO – I’ve got it fixed now…thanks!

As for Julie’s adulterous ways, the point was to show that Jack was spiraling downward, as he was becoming more and more certain of what was going on.   And also, remember, that everyone is not as keen eyed as you are.  Some need to be hit over the head with details to really get it.  I’ll give it another read and see if I agree there’s overkill, but I’ll also wait for others’ opinions.

I agree with you about some of the Flashbacks being able to be shorter.  They could for sure.  I just kind of liked how they played out and couldn’t cut  ‘em back.

Cool!  Very happy the Vegas Flashback worked for you as character development, because that’s exactly what it was, and it was to show how tight Jack and Mitch are.

I’m actually very surprised you didn’t like Shauntee, as she has actually gotten rave reviews from every reader I’ve had (prior to posting).  I always feel the need to create a life for all the major characters, and this little side plot just gives more life to Glenville. I think Shauntee is a really cool character, personally.  She’s funny, witty, sexy smoking hot, and provides some good titillation.   I just wanted to add some romance, and I really like her…and Glenville.  I think he’s got a lot of character as well.  We’ll see what others think.

Cool!  Glad you enjoyed it, Rob.  I really like hearing it was a fast read for you, too.  I agree, as I’ve read it about 15 times now…it does seem to read quickly, and that’s always a good thing.  And, of course, I’m very happy you liked the end, as it is the whole crux of the script, and that’s how I always try to write.

Thanks again, my friend.  I’ll read Purgatory soon and post my comments.

Take care!
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sniper
Posted: September 7th, 2010, 3:51pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
My girlfriend said she thought the finale read rushed as well, but I don’t see that…what felt rushed to you?

I think what I needed was a scene (possibly a flashback) that at least hints at Jack's violent tendencies. Nothing major, just a little bread crumb. Yes, you did have the scene (flashback) where he breaks the glass and cuts his hand but I would have liked to have seen him show a little of his "other" side in a scene where he's sober and not high.


Quoted from Dreamscale
As I mentioned to Rick, the dragonflies were a nod to Costner’s movie, which I really enjoyed.  I did want it to share a somewhat common thread, but be completely different, like you mentioned.  We’ll see what others have to say.  I think, based on what you’re saying, you were OK with it, right?

Yeah, I'm totally okay with it. The reason is probably because I, like yourself and Rick, really like Dragonfly. I don't why that movie never took off. I thought is was really good. Had I not liked the movie though I guess I wouldn't have been as okay with you using the dragonfly in your story.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Which kind of brings up the question, is Julie a likable character?  I’d say she’s probably not.  It will be very interesting to see what others think about this.

That's good question, I don't know why I didn't touch upon that one. Yeah, you're right, she's not very likable. Well, that's not entirely true. She does have a few scenes where she comes across as a loveable wife but mostly - and in particular when her affair is revealed - she comes across like, well, a bitch.

I'm just thinking out loud here but isn't that a little problematic as well? Her being unlikeable? Agreed, the story isn't really about finding her, but we don't realize that until we're close to the end, so wouldn't it work a little better (up the tension so to speak) if she came across a little more likable - at least to start off with? That way the audience would easier root for Jack (even though he really doesn't do all that much to find her). Again, just thinking out loud.


Quoted from Dreamscale
One thing I do want to bring up is that my hope, and assumption, is that Addinton and Glenville are likable enough that the reader will actually be rooting for them.  Which is why they each have a rather detailed character and back and side stories going on.

Addinton worked for me because of the situation with his mother but I couldn't really connect with Glenville. So he has a hot date. Big deal. To me that whole scene with Shauntee was a tangent that I didn't need. Even if she's got a GREAT ASS (to quote Al Pacino).


Quoted from Dreamscale
My girlfriend agrees with you

Sounds to me like you need to listen to her a lot more, bro


Down in the hole / Jesus tries to crack a smile / Beneath another shovel load
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 7th, 2010, 4:50pm Report to Moderator
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Rob, my friend, thanks for keeping the back and forth going here.  I really appreciate this kind of stuff and feel that it really helps.  I’ve tried to do the same in a few others threads, but the authors don’t seem to agree that it’s helpful, and I’ve even had a few people who haven’t even read the script jump in and attack me for what I’ve said, the way I’ve said it, and generally just telling me to butt out.  Who knows…

SPOILERS     SPOILERS     SPOILERS

Here’s the deal with old Jack, and his “violent tendencies”.  He really doesn’t have any.  For the most part, he’s a good guy. Yeah, he cheated on Julie during his bachelor party, and he’s the kind of guy that spends a good deal of time with male friends and doesn’t include his wife on multiple trips, but he’s not the kind to be violent unless violence is brought on him (as in the Vegas Flashback).  In no way did he intend on hurting/killing anyone.  He reacted extremely poorly when he saw what he saw in the finale, and he definitely went WAY overboard with Mitch in the end, but he did try and save Julie.  He was just whacked out on coke, drunk, out of it from being beaten up, and again, did things that were out of character.  I do hear you about some sort of foreshadowing…or maybe just a little more foreshadowing.

Luckily, Dragonfly is not a mainstream flick, so chances are good that not many will even relate to it, or be aware of it.

Julie, and Jack for that matter, are probably more likable than they seem when it’s all said and done.  They were a loving, happy couple up until Jimmy got killed.  Jack went off the deep end and Julie reacted like many women would.  She went back to the guy she used to date before Jack (I know this is only mentioned once and in a way that many will miss, but the back story is that all 3 met in college, Julie and Mitch dated, and then Jack moved in on his best friend’s girl, and ended up marrying her).  They remained close friends (Jack and Mitch were obviously best friends) throughout their lives.

I wanted to give various clues that both Jack and Julie were not perfect, or flawed characters, I guess.  Same with Mitch.  You now I like keeping things “real”, and in real life, few can afford to live in glass houses, and most have a past that contain things they’re far from proud of.

As things progress, it becomes clear that from Jack’s perspective, Julie is the one who seems to be “the bitch”, and it’s this that sends him over the deep end…but, in the same way, it was Jack who caused Julie to stray into Mitch’s open, waiting arms.

So, I hear you for sure, but feel like each of them are most likely “likable” up to a certain point, and even though each has their obvious flaws and has made obvious mistakes, and hopefully the audience can root for both in their own different ways.

Love the thinking out loud stuff, dude…totally!  It really helps getting others perspectives on issues like this.

Glenville had more than a hot date with Shauntee.  They are somewhat of an item, and it’s already common knowledge at the station, although Glenville ties to play it down.  Shawntee is one hot little number, and it’s a well known fact.  Damn, I wish you like her more.  He’s got some great lines, IMO.

Yeah, I should listen to my girlfriend more…but wouldn’t that be too easy?  

Thanks, bud!
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c m hall
Posted: September 8th, 2010, 10:03am Report to Moderator
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This is a wonderfully scenic script, on the screen it would be beautiful and keep the audience engaged, I think.
The tragic under current in the story line seems to suit the glorious surroundings; any sort of casual love, hate, jealousy would seem especially trivial next to such awe inspiring scenery.
I think the flashbacks with Mitch and Jack at the casino go on too long.  
One other thing that comes to mind is that (around page 90 something) the hand that appears and attacks Woodie ought to be described, we ought to at least be able to see that it's a white man, and possibly see his wristwatch.  
Another thing is that Jack seems to be an awfully high functioning drug addict, I guess some are, up to a point.  
I'm not sure about the Montage sequences at the end, it seems self-mocking to the story, especially with the Nat Cole song playing in the background.  Otherwise, could be a very entertaining film.

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c m hall  -  September 27th, 2010, 4:49pm
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 8th, 2010, 12:11pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for reading and your feedback, Catherine.  I appreciate it.

Glad you liked the visuals.  Barbados is a beautiful place for sure!

I tend to agree that the casino scene runs long.  There were just a number of things I wanted to get across at that time, in that Flashback.  I’ll give it another look.

SPOILERS     SPOILERS     SPOILERS

I also agree with you about “the hand”. I’ve been toying with inserting something here for awhile, but chose not to, as I didn’t want to make a point of “showing” the killer’s identity (and more so, I think most wouldn’t remember which watch belonged to who…so…maybe I should throw it in here, and if anyone cares to look back and see who it is, they can, but everyone else will just know it’s 1 of the 2 of them).  I think that’s the direction I’ll go.  

I actually wouldn’t call Jack an addict.  Although you probably wouldn’t know it from what’s on the page, it’s not like he’s doing lines and getting hammered 24/7. He’s definitely doing these things too much, but again, he had stopped the coke prior to the trip.  It was Julie’s behavior on the island that got him started again.  Another thing to keep in mind is how coke works.  It’s not like one can’t function while on it, and when one is rather used to it, the effect is pretty much energy and power.  Hey, everyone’s different…I know people who are stoned out of their minds, pretty much every waking hour and if you didn’t know it, you wouldn’t know, period.  Others, give ‘em 1 beer and they’re doing the Lambada.

I don’t follow what you mean about the end montage being self mocking to the story.  Could you explain?  You know the bookended montages are identical except that the end one shows the detail of who’s actually taking part in the various activities, as well as a little added dialogue and detail…and that’s the entire reason for both of them.  You are most likely assuming one thing after seeing the opening montage, but when you see it again, at the end, you see that it’s probably not what you were originally assuming.   You know what I’m saying?

I was very leery about starting with such a montage and playing it over a classic song.  Both are considered definite “non-no’s”.  I sent the opening montage out to a few friends, and they all liked it, so I decided it would be OK.  I’m actually surprised no one has said something like, “Hey, you can’t use an exact song and certainly not that one!”  But, for me, the song (and title) just fits so perfectly, I could not resist using it.

Thanks for the compliments.  Your feedback is much appreciated.
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c m hall
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Quoted from Dreamscale

I don�t follow what you mean about the end montage being self mocking to the story.  Could you explain?  You know the bookended montages are identical except that the end one shows the detail of who�s actually taking part in the various activities, as well as a little added dialogue and detail�and that�s the entire reason for both of them.  You are most likely assuming one thing after seeing the opening montage, but when you see it again, at the end, you see that it�s probably not what you were originally assuming.   You know what I�m saying?

.


SPOILERS
Sure, if that's what you intended then you've achieved your aim and I gladly withdraw my objection.
My original thought was that showing the "good times" again, after so much heart ache made a mockery of the opening montage.  
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 8th, 2010, 3:46pm Report to Moderator
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No need to withdraw any objections, I just wasn't sure what you meant.

Thanks.
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Ledbetter
Posted: September 8th, 2010, 9:00pm Report to Moderator
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I have not had anytime this week to comment on the 7WC scripts as of late.

I will be trying with my very busy schedule to give what thoughts I can on all of them, but I will be the come latley on this thread.

First off, Jeff, Great job first and foremost on your outstanding comments on (I think) most every script in this challange. This site owes you a debt for your insite and (sometimes a little strong) opinions regarding what you are commenting on.

Sense FADE TO WHITE, was writtin, I believe you kept your pen quiet. It is nice to see both the excitement you and all of the participents held during this challenge as well as the final product you have produced.

This is one fantastic script my friend. For it to be written just shy of two months, shows the maturity of your work. I do feel there are some areas that need polishing, but why would there not be on a 7 week script.

I have to leave the line by line items to those who are good at them. Me, myself, if anyone knows me, am not.

Jeff, GREAT JOB!

Shawn.....><

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Ryan1
Posted: September 8th, 2010, 9:18pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff,

Figured I owed you a read after all you've given me.  Good job finishing in 7 weeks.  You've assembled a fairly detailed story for that time period.  Gotta say, though, I didn't care for this story.  By the end, I was just confused and not too entertained.  Maybe, like Stevie, I just didn't "get it" and I'd appreciate it if you could PM over any details I missed.

On to the script.  From a formatting and grammar standpoint, pretty clean.  Easy on the eyes, plenty of white space.

Now, I've never been the biggest fan of flashbacks.  In some scripts, as in this one, they are a necessity.  But only in moderation.  In your script, the flashbacks are really the engine powering the narrative forward.  Every couple of pages it seems that Jack gazes upon some object and has an incredibly convenient flashback to tell us more details and move the story along.  IMO, the result is a stilted reading experience where we're having these fragmented memories spoon fed to us.

SPOILERS

With Mitch, as you've already commented, it's obvious from the get go that he is somehow connected to Julie's disappearance.  On pg 61, when Jack says, "No, I never saw him,"  and then Mitch blinks nervously, you really take away all doubt.  Also, on page 68, when Addinton visits his mother in the hospital, she says "The missing girl is waiting to cross over."  So, now we definitely know Julie is dead, and that immediately drains away some of the suspense.

On pages 81-82 we're in Jack's flashback to the cave fight scene.  Jack is knocked unconscious in the fight, so how would he remember the moments before he regained consciousness?

The ending...like I said I'm afraid I just don't get it.  Jack killed both Julie and Mitch earlier when he found them embracing in the forest, and his amnesia is sort of self-induced, like when his son died.  Is that right?  So, all these appearances by Mitch were either "Fight Club" type hallucinations or drug-fueled ghostly images of Mitch?

So my questions would be:

What did the cave fight scene have to do with the final scene?  
The revelation that it was Mitch in the opening montage...how does that play into the overall story?
Did Woodie know that Jack killed Mitch and Julie and wanted hush money, so that's why Jack killed him?  

As someone already said, it's a "small story."  I could see this as a TV movie, maybe.  But I think the constant reliance on flashbacks slows the pace and robs the story of its tension and momentum.  And the two "giveaways" I mentioned earlier really killed a lot of the suspense for me.

Wish I could say I liked it more, but there it is.  But good job on going for it in the 7 week span.

Ryan

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Ryan1  -  September 8th, 2010, 10:08pm
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seamus19382
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Jeff,


SPOILERS -


Congratualtions on finishing a screenplay in seven weeks.  Very impressive.

This is really good.  Considering tha it was written in 7 weeks, it's really, really good.

The writing is great.  Clear, clean concise.  Really nice.

I think Julie needs to be developed a little more.  Was she cheating with Mitch the entire time she was with Jack, or did it just start up again after Jimmy died?  Either way I think we need one more beat to make that connection.

I like the scenes with Addinton's mom, but I don't like the superantural aspect of them.  If her husband can tell Addinton to find the girls killer, how come he can't mention the fact that Mitch is dead and Addinton's going to get stabbed in the stomach?

I don't mind the Mitch is dead angle, but when Jack gets a call from him on his cell phone, it kind of makes us believe that he is alive.  Dead men don't make phone calls.

I;m not quite sure what the last montage is supposed to mean.  It actually kind of leaves me with the feeling that Jack and Mitch were having an affair, which isn't what I think you were going for.

Again, really nice effort for seven weeks!
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 9th, 2010, 10:50am Report to Moderator
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LedHead, thanks for the compliments on my reviews, though most curse them…and me.  Nice to hear the other side every now and then.

Also, big thanks on the compliments on this script.  It’s appreciated.  This was a great learning experience, and fun at the same time.  My hat is off to all who completed their scripts on time.

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Dreamscale
Posted: September 9th, 2010, 12:16pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Ryan, thanks for jumping in and providing feedback.  It’s much appreciated and very helpful.  Yeah, you bastard, you did owe me some reads.  

Sorry you didn’t care for this.  Ending on confusion and not being entertained is definitely not what I was after here.  Let’s see where it all went wrong for you.

SPOILERS    SPOILERS     SPOILERS     SPOILERS

I’m not a big fan of Flashbacks either…usually.  And that’s the reason I decided to go balls out and make the Flashbacks share equal billing with the story occurring in current time.  You’re right, my Flashbacks are indeed my engine here, but not completely.  There are 23 Flashback sequences.  3 of them are rather lengthy (the casino, the cave, and the gully).  Do they come about “conveniently”?   Sure they do.  It’s a script…for a movie…for a crowd that requires such things (to move the story along).  They also come rather haphazardly and randomly at first, which was my attempt to make them seem less “convienant”.

Does it create a “stilted” reading experience?  I don’t personally think so, but you guys will be the judge on that.  Would it make for a stilted viewing experience?  I definitely don’t think so.  As I mentioned to someone else, earlier, IMO, Flashbacks can be jarring, therefore, I tried to change things up by using so many, that it should come across smoothly, once you get into the flow and understand that there will be A LOT of Flashbacks.

Mitch’s connection to the disappearance, IMO, is not “obvious from the get go”.  But I’m also not trying to hide his connection either.  By page 61, you’re an hour into it, so that’s pretty far from the get go.  And, understand that the single line you’re referencing is a line I chose to include.  Why did I include it?  I wanted to draw “more” attention to Mitch.  Actually, the bigger reveal is on page 54, where Addinton and Glenville learn that Mitch has been on the island much longer than Jack thinks.  It’s at this point, when you should be thinking something’s not quite right, and the line you brought up, 7 pages later, confirms it.

The stuff on page 68 that you brought up, is an interesting point.  Early readers wanted that line cut, and I chose to leave it in.  Maybe it should go.  I wouldn’t say that you know anything based on the line.  You know damn well that many such lines are used as red herrings, or just used to literally conceal the actual facts in a movie.  So, I don’t know.  It’s a good point and I’ll definitely think about it.

Your next point about the cave Flashback is a great one.  Awesome catch!  Jack gets knocked out on the very bottom of page 81, and then comes to at the very top of page 83, so we’re talking about a full page (the attempted rape) that he didn’t actually see.  It’s an easy fix, though.  Jack just won’t be out cold.  Great catch there, Ryan!  This is the kind of stuff I totally appreciate, and it totally slipped through the cracks.

I’m not sure what you don’t get in the end.  Jack killed Mitch for sure.  He tried to save Julie, but she lost her grip and she fell to her death.  I’m actually rewriting this scene (slightly) to show that Jack really did try and save her.  It will only be an extra couple of sentences, but they should help show exactly what went down here.  Is his amnesia self induced?  I don’t know.  Are you saying you think amnesia is self induced in general?  I don’t think so.  Everyone’s different, and everyone reacts to tragedy differently.

The deal with Mitch, which could be eluding people (I’m not 100% sure yet), is that he’s plain and simple, a ghost.  He’s not a hallucination, and he’s definitely not a drug-fueled image.  He was killed in cold blood by his best friend, so he comes back to make sure not only Jack knows exactly what happened, but also so that he pays for his sins.  That is the big reveal and twist that fuels this script, so if that doesn’t work for you, chances are good that the script doesn’t work for you either.  I tried to include many different elements that would make this a fun read and ride, but the ending is where the power lies, for me, at least.

OK, let’s answer your questions…

What did the cave fight scene have to do with the final scene?  Nothing, really.  The cave fight scene shows how/where/why Jack got beat up, and got his bell rung, which most likely played into his amnesia.  It also is the reason why everything went down the way it did in the finale, as Julie decided right then and there, that no matter what, the affair was over, and she was ready to try and save her marriage.
  
The revelation that it was Mitch in the opening montage...how does that play into the overall story?  I tried to explain this earlier to another poster.  Go up a few posts and you should see it there.  Basically, it’s just a final little twist to show what Jack’s all about…and it wasn’t all about Julie.  

Did Woodie know that Jack killed Mitch and Julie and wanted hush money, so that's why Jack killed him?  Woodie did not see Jack kill anyone.  He knew Mitch and Julie went to the gully together, and he’s the one that told Jack this.  He is also aware that something is up, as Julie is missing and Addinton and Glenville are on his tail.  He wants his money period, as Jack had not paid him yet.  Jack kills him at the end to try and cover all loose ends.  Basically, in the end, Jack has lost it completely.  Mitch saw to that and the coke and booze only helped fan the flames.  In the end, Jack is downright crazed, as he takes Woodie out, and tries to kill Addinton as well.

It is a small story, and it’s supposed to be a small story.  Based on how it plays out, I don’t think there’s anything small about it, personally, though.  Pretty much all my writing covers small events that I try to put a different spin on, and create larger stories.  I’m not into all the BIG, intricate plots.  They don’t interest me.  I like small…on a BIG scale!

A TV movie?  HUH?  Dude, c’mon now.  How do you see this as a TV movie?  It’s a hard R rating all the way around, as well as a big budget.  It’s far from a TV movie.  Ryan, damn, man.  A TV movie?  No…no…no.  

I wish you could say you like it more, also, but you never can please them all.  That’s OK.  I really appreciate your detailed feedback.  It’s a big help.

Thanks, man.  Take care.
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Ryan1
Posted: September 9th, 2010, 2:16pm Report to Moderator
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Jeff,

When I say TV movie, I didn't mean that as an insult as some tv movies I've seen are better than a lot of the crap I've seen in the theaters.  It's just when I was readng this, with the love triangle and double crossing during a romantic vacation,  it really reminded me of a tv movie.  And I think this could be filmed on a very modest budget, which I think would be a plus to a lot of producers looking for this kind of story.

With Mitch, I can honestly tell you I knew he had to be in this story for a reason, and it was a lot more than helping a friend.  Just the way you introduce him with the phone calls, it instantly creates an air of suspicion.  And, as Seamus pointed out, it's certainly strange that Jack is receiving these calls from a ghost.  Odd behavior for a ghost.  When he first came into play, I thought you were giving us a red herring, but by the end of the first act, I'd figured he was definitely involved in Julie's disappearance in some way.  

I'd get rid of Addinton's mom's line on pg 68.  It definitely gives away a lot, IMO.  True, it could have been a red herring, but it seemed doubtful to me, given that she was on death's door.  I knew from that line that Julie was dead, and up until that point I was thinking maybe she was in on the disappearance with Mitch or perhaps some other scheme I hadn't figured out yet.

I will say something I forgot to mention in the original review...I like how you fleshed out the secondary characters.  A lot of scripts like this make the cops cardboard cutouts who's job is to only "find and speak out the clues."  You breathed life into Addinton and Glenville.  Even Woodie.

So this script wasn't for me, but I see you've gotten some good reviews here, and any script that creates a discussion is a good thing.  

Ryan
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 9th, 2010, 3:51pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Seamus, thanks for the read and comments.

Glad you liked it and thanks for the compliments…always nice to hear!

SPOILERS     SPOILERS     SPOILERS     SPOILERS

I think you’re right about Julie.  I’ve been thinking that there should be at least 1 (maybe even 2) more Flashbacks with her, showing things when they were better, in the past.  No, she was not cheating with Mitch the entire time.  Here’s the deal (but you’d never know all this from the script)…Jack, Mitch, and Julie are all friends from college.  Jack and Mitch met Julie together, and Mitch began dating her…this lasted a number of years in college.  They broke up.  Jack moved in, and they ended up getting married, 3 or 4 years out of college.  They all remained great friends, and Jack and Mitch were best friends, meaning that Jack didn’t do anything to break them up…it just happened, and Jack was there.  So, jump forward in time to when Jimmy dies, and Jack zones out, starts partying hard, becomes extremely distant with Julie.  This time, Mitch is there for her, and they rekindle their romance.  As time goes by, Jack begins to realize that Julie is having an affair, but he doesn’t suspect Mitch in the slightest way.  Jack and Mitch even talk about the fact that she’s cheating on him.  Mitch was not supposed to go to Barbados, and when he gets there, Julie is surprised, if not upset (it’s not anywhere in the script), but soon warms to his company, as Jack buys an 8 ball from Woodie, and starts getting hammered again, which he had stopped recently.

Cool, glad you liked Addinton’s Mum scenes. They were a highlight for a bunch of early readers too.  I had a feeling some wouldn’t appreciate the supernatural element, and that’s OK.  Based on what Ryan said (as well as a few earlier readers), I’m going to chop the line that she tells Addinton about Julie needing to cross over, etc.  To answer your question, if he decided to tell him all that, it would be a pretty short script!     Basically, my response is that the supernatural works in mysterious ways…  

Well, obviously, my objective was to make Mitch come off as if he’s alive, while still making sure that no one else interacted with him in any way.  Dead men may not make phone calls, snort lines, or drink straight vodka, but ghosts do…or at least this ghost does.  

No, Jack and Mitch are far from gay.  I tried explaining the last montage in an earlier post.  Seems like it’s not working the way I see it, or thought it would work.  Let me try again here.  The theme going on here, over and over, is unforgettable things.  Like how can one forget killing his best friend and causing the death of his wife, who he did really love.  The Flashbacks throughout are all various “unforgettable” things in his life that start coming back to him.  We start with a montage of amazing memories, but they’re a bit unclear, as we don’t even “see” who is partaking in them.  We assume they’re Jack and Julie, but in reality, it’s Jack and Mitch.  As he’s dying, these memories come back to him, and he remembers all the great times he had with Mitch…and Julie, and from there, you can draw your own conclusions…for me, I see that Jack is sorry, knows how badly he fucked up, and dies on a peaceful note.

Thanks again, Seamus.  Hope this helps. Take care.
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 9th, 2010, 4:35pm Report to Moderator
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Ryan, thanks for keeping the discussion going.  I love a good back and forth discussion, and feel it’s so helpful, so I’ll throw out a few more things that are not intended to be arguments or anything of the sort – people tend to take what I say, or the way I say it, the wrong way.  I’m just giving my 2 cents on the subject in hopes of shedding some light on my feelings.

Who is making “TV movies” nowadays?  No one that I’m aware of other than maybe Lifetime or Hallmark.  Maybe you’re referring to DTV’s (Direct To Video), which although I’m not against in any way, I’m  also not too keen on.  I do not see this as having a modest budget, but I guess one man’s modest budget can easily be another man’s HUGE budget, or vice verse.  There are a lot of characters here and even more sets and locations.  In a perfect world, I’d say we’re looking at a budget of at least $15 Million, if not $20-$25 Million, which I guess could be considered to be a modest budget, depending on how you look at it.

IMO, every major character is there for a reason in every script/story/movie.  I think us writers tend to realize that fact and it makes it much easier for us to decipher mystery type scripts/movies.  In a who dunnit kind of thing, as a writer, we know that the antag is going to be someone with (hopefully) a lot of screen time, as well as someone who appears not to be the antag, otherwise, it’s not going to be very mysterious or surprising when things are revealed.  And, I actually want Mitch to come off as someone of questionable background, and someone you should suspect…of at least something.

As I mentioned to Seamus, in this scenario, this ghost happens to be able to do various things, like snort coke, drink vodka, and use his cell phone (or at least make it appear that the call is coming from hi cell phone).  But, he does not (and cannot) interact with anyone other than Jack, which is why he just “shows up” when and where he wants to.  You know, IMO, when you’re dealing with something that isn’t real (as far as we all know, at least), you as the writer, have the ability to set what can and what can’t happen.  I’m sure you’ve seen countless movies where a ghost moves objects and manipulates its surroundings.  Same deal here.

I will get rid of Addinton’s Mum’s line on page 68.  Hopefully that will help with things for you and others as well.  It’ a great idea and I’m all over it, so I definitely thank you for bringing it up.

I’m glad you appreciate (and saw) the depth of the secondary characters.  It was a goal of mine from the get-go,  and I did everything I could to give them life, as well as a back story.  Glad it came through.

Thank you again, man.  Your feedback is very helpful.
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Mr.Ripley
Posted: September 10th, 2010, 1:25am Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff.

Read 30 pgs. Here my thoughts so far:

I like the area you chose. However, if this were going to be picked up, it requires a big budget to make. But I like the island feel.

You give alot characters names. I think you should elimanate or combine some of them since it's hard to keep track of who is who. The only one I can identify is Jack since he is the one with the amnesia.

I believe that the montage and some of the flashbacks (for example, Vegas) should be trimmed.  It runs to long. It has a lot of unnecessary details; for example, in the montage sequence where the dolphins are smiling, I don't think that's necessary. I already get that it's a happy and joyous moment with the previous details.

Some of the dialgoue worked while others didn't. The one that stands out in my mind was with the prostitute inticing Jack to have sex with her. But I have problems with dialgoue so it'll take time to work on.

Gabe
    


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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James McClung
Posted: September 10th, 2010, 9:29am Report to Moderator
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I enjoyed this quite a bit. Very impressive for something conceived within seven weeks. Writing's one thing but creating the universe in such a short period of time is quite a task. I particularly enjoyed your use of "product placement," if you will, as I did in Fade to White. The specificity adds a character to the script you wouldn't otherwise have.

The story reminded me of Blood Simple in the sense that Blood Simple was essentially a very mundane situation blown up into a huge web of interrelated occurrences. Blood Simple in Barbados is fine by me. Not to say you didn't have your own story. Just a similar approach, I'd say. Then again, I can't speak for you in regards to what you were going for.

Your characters were very well done. All of them, interestingly flawed individuals. Not likable by any means. I would even go so far as to say Mitch deserved what he got. It's one thing to have an affair with your best friend's wife. What am I saying? It's a huge thing! Takes a special kinda douchebag. But lines like "talk about this like adults" and "I love you," as you may have intended, basically suggests that he thinks their relationship can be fixed which is almost as reprehensible as the act itself. Total fuckhead, even more so considering the fact that he knew the couple were drifting apart and was even lending a hand.

I wouldn't say the same for Julie. As you've already said, Jack was pushing her away. She made some bad choices but I can see how she would've been lead to do so.

Jack was alright. I don't think his likability really wavered all that much, honestly. There's really only one way to write an amnesia victim. Literally as someone who's mind has been wiped clean. There's a few idiosyncrasies you can institute but for the most part, they start out as blank characters. Later on, Jack was a lot more of a sleaze but he was much, much more interesting. I should point out that if characters are interesting, I really don't think the story is affected by whether they're likable or not. Interesting is interesting.

The cops were alright. Addinton's mother added a new dimension to that type of character that's normally not seen, I would say.

The only thing I felt the characters (namely Jack and Julie) were missing was any sort of grief period. When Jack discusses his son's death with Addinton, it sounds completely forced and phony. It was actually probably the only part of the script that felt that way. Didn't buy it at all. I understand the partying is a means to cover up the pain but just the same. Nothing from Julie either. The loss of a child is the most traumatic experience a human being can have. It feels like an afterthought here.

The flashbacks were fine. You get used to them as you read on. I think you succeeded in creating a flow of things. I do think early on, they simply occur as opposed to being triggered by questions, comments, places, etc. as they are later on.

The amount of dialogue is fine. It's well written too. You might not wanna listen to me though. I'm a huge Tarantino and, as of late, Jim Jarmusch fan. I can sit through a helluva lot more small talk than most, so long as it's interesting.

I loved the subplots with the gangs. The scene in the caves was frightening, disturbing and suspenseful, especially with little details like the black hole and the eels. I wouldn't expand on them though. Personally, I love films where there's things going on behind the scenes that are never explained but are still known to be going on. It gives the story life outside the screen.

Didn't care for the "supernatural" elements. I did like the fact that Addinton's mother revealed Julie was in some sort of limbo. It built anticipation. I don't understand how she was wronged or whatever she said. Julie definitely had an affair and while maybe she didn't deserve what she got entirely, she was no saint. But I digress. Didn't like the talk about the dead husband. It was well written but whatever. The dragonfly was a nice embellishment. I'd even keep it around. But the metaphor felt obvious and shallow.

I should also note that while I had some issues with your execution, it really wouldn't have made a difference it you tried something different. I'm rather picky about my symbolism but extremely picky when it pertains to the afterlife. If you're gonna do it, you better be a goddamn master (e.g. Kubrick, Lynch, Jarmusch, etc.).

The ending was okay. You mentioned the twist with Mitch wasn't supposed to be huge so no fault on your part. The fact that he's dead was kinda cool. Kinda meh. Well done but nothing that impressed me all that much. The bookends with "Unforgettable" were brilliant though. Loved it.

There you have it. Good job!


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Dreamscale
Posted: September 10th, 2010, 1:43pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Gabe, thanks for getting started.  Of all the 7WC’ers, you’re only the 2nd to read and make any comments, so I really appreciate it.

Yeah, this is not intended to be a small budget, as I commented earlier. Why go small, when you can GO BIG?

I always name every character who speaks more than 2 lines.  Without it, it’s lazy writing, IMO.   I’m surprised you’re having trouble keeping up with the characters.  None of them are really able to be eliminated, though, sorry to say.  Hopefully, you’ll get a handle on them as you continue.

The montage runs the entirety of the opening song (about 3 ½ minutes).  Most likely, this will be where the opening credits roll.  The dolphins don’t smile.  Jack and Julie smile as they watch them.

Are you saying you didn’t like Alexis’ dialogue when she walked into the shower with Jack?  Really?  I love it, personally.

Anyway, thanks again for getting started on it, and I look forward to hearing your feelings when you’re all done.  I’ll give you’re a look when it’s posted.

Take care!
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Mr.Ripley
Posted: September 10th, 2010, 6:26pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff

About the dolphin statement, I swore I saw that. LOL! Sorry about that man. I take the dolphin comment back. LOL!

But I still feel that it can still be trimmed. For instance,

EXT. SKY - DAY

Two SKYDIVERS race through the air in free fall, as they
plummet towards Earth.

Two brightly colored parachutes open, one after the other.

EXT. UNDERWATER - DAY

Two SCUBA DIVERS, explore the ocean floor, in crystal clear
water.

One points to a cluster of spiny Caribbean lobsters on a
small outcropping of rock.

EXT. SKI RUN - DAY

Light powder snow falls. Everything is white.

Two SKIERS zip down a steep trail, a few feet apart, each
ripping up huge rooster tails of fluffy snow.

EXT. MOUNTAIN RIVER - DAY

Two KAYAKERS, each in their own bright yellow craft, paddle
through raging white water rapids.

INT. CHURCH - DAY

JACK BENTON, 25, handsome, smiles down at JULIE, also 25,
gorgeous. A PRIEST silently recites wedding vows.

A tear runs down Julie's cheek. They both smile, embrace,
and kiss passionately.

EXT. SUBURBAN STREET - DAY

Tires SCREECH to a halt seconds too late, as a white Mercedes
smashes into a BOY, sending him flying up and over the car.

He lands in a heap, as the car zooms off.

END MONTAGE

You get the message across faster.  Just a suggestion. I'm suffering from this at the moment with mines .

I understand the concept of giving each character names (it enriches them with dimension and makes them more like people). It just gets confusing a bit as you read on.  The idea works best in books but I don't think in screenplays as much. Only rarely. But each has their own writing style. Whatever floats your boat.

Alexis comment, didn't ring true. I guess its personal taste, but for me nah.

I appreciate your review as well. And I believe that George, Pia, and an another 7WC’er are going to read yours next.

Gabe


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/

Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Mr.Ripley  -  September 10th, 2010, 6:58pm
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 10th, 2010, 6:51pm Report to Moderator
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You know, dolphins have a "natural smile" on their faces...maybe I'll include it.  

Hell, might as well have the lobsters smiling also.  Everyone and everything is HAPPY!!!!
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Brian M
Posted: September 11th, 2010, 5:03pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff,

I must say I really enjoyed this one and I think you’ve done a fantastic job for seven weeks. I don’t normally make notes for mistakes, especially for first drafts, but I only found one or two so I noted them.

SPOILERS

Things really kicked off from the cave scenes onwards (my favorite scene!) and I was flying through the pages from then on. The first half, I found a little stop-start in places, particularly the Vegas flashbacks. Every flashback in the first 70 odd pages are short and snappy, Vegas dragged a bit too much for my liking.

The twist with Mitch was nicely done. I was trying to guess as I was reading, and I had Glenville down as the possible killer, only because you were giving him a lot more screen time than a character like this normally gets. I does leave some problems, like how does a ghost make phone calls or snort lines of coke. Maybe Jack could remember Mitch in a flashback and then call him, so it’s not the ghost making the calls? Actually, it doesn’t really matter as you could risk giving the twist away.

The best thing about this for me, is that all the characters are REAL. They all have their lives, their problems... no perfect action heroes saving the missing girl. Jack worked perfectly for me. Julie, maybe she could be a little more likable as she is the missing girl the story revolves around. Woodie was interesting and the two cops had stories to give them some life.

The Dragonfly was a nice touch. I didn’t like Addinton’s mum spoiling the surprise on whether Julie was missing or actually dead. Maybe she could be less specific so we could think there is still a chance Jack could find her alive?

Dialogue was good. One or two instance were odd, but that’s to be expected. I’m no expert on how people from the Caribbean talk, but it sounded authentic enough for me. On page 36, I noted “Oh fuck! Son of a fuckin' whore bitch cunt!”. That felt really out of place and sounded like a character on South Park with tourettes. I would tone that back a little. On the other hand, Mitch on page 58, “Little skinny, ugly motherfucker? Missing a bunch of teeth?”, that was great and brought a laugh.  

The opening and ending montage worked for me, too. I don’t see the problem opening with something like that. Countless movies do it.

A few notes...

p22 - Missing a (V.O.) for Julie in the phone conversation.

p34 - GLENVILLE - "You see patients just take off like this" - missing a question mark.

p39 -ADDINTON - "Can you tell us about Jimmy." - should be a question mark.

p67 - Uncapped characters? NOOOOOOO!!!! I'll let you off with it this time since it's a first draft done within 7 weeks.  

I can’t think of anymore to say, if I do, I’ll post later. Good story, great characters and amazing visuals. You did a great job with this, it’s baffling how you wrote it in 7 weeks. Well done!  

Brian
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Grandma Bear
Posted: September 11th, 2010, 5:43pm Report to Moderator
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Okay Jeff, here we go.

I intended to finish the script yesterday, but we were to busy at work and then Friday night happened and then there was a fight…I was in it...

Anyway, I read the first 25 pages or so yesterday and I was really impressed. I was thinking to myself that you did an excellent job for such a short amount of time to write it. I liked the beginning. I liked the setting and I liked the characters. Today when I continued, I have to be honest, the script didn't fulfill the promise of the beginning.

I liked that you had Jack's story being revealed bit by bit in tandem with the present story. However, I think if you cut all the stuff that isn't needed in this script I think you would have a much shorter script in your hands. That can be easily fixed though by developing character better.

This is IMHO a dialogue heavy script. It doesn't bother me "that" much because your dialogue is pretty good. You always do good on that. There's just way too much of it and a lot of it doesn't lead to anything or add to the story. I would even say that this story is told mostly in dialogue. If you think about it. There isn't really that much action in this script. Just because the characters move back and forth from a hospital, to a resort, a villa, a police station doesn't mean the story is told visually if the characters are still telling us everything. Does that make sense or am I being hard to understand again? I have a hard time explaining myself sometime. Btw, that doesn't mean that I didn't notice the chase scenes.

There are also a LOT of flashbacks. Flashbacks are needed to tell the real story here, but they are far too many and far too long. I think quick little flashes would add a lot more mystery to this script than the long flashbacks you have now. They also seem to come to Jack rather easily…

My biggest issue with this script however was the characters. Biggest problem was Jack. I immediately liked him and could sympathize/empathize with him. How horrible to lose your little kid. A parent's worst nightmare. Then he wakes up all beaten in Barbados with his wife missing. You had me there Jeff. Great stuff! Seriously. Then you go ahead and ruin that by making him a complete ass and bad guy. The first slap in the face for me came in the Vegas Flashback when he has sex with the "pro" and does coke right before he's about to get married….not to mention stealing the other guys watches. Am I supposed to cheer that? My view of him there changed right away. After that he continuously does things that makes me like him less and less up until the final blow at the end. Starting when he stabs Addinton. At that point I wished he would die. That's not a good feeling you want an audience to have about the main character that we have spent so much time rooting for. I think Jack's character is something you absolutely have to address first. I would suggest that he remains the nice guy throughout. Someone who was screwed by his best friend and wife and on top of that lost his son. Stick with that and you will have us cheer for him all the way.

We don't really know Julie. She seems like a bitch if you ask me. There are some moments where she could possibly be likable, but not very often. She also cheats on her husband with his best friend so my sympathy for her is nowhere. Yes, she lost her son too, but she doesn't seem to worry to much about that. I guess it's hard to tell a story about a dead person, but I definitely think you need to work on some more characterization for her. Doesn't mean you have to show her more in those flashbacks, but maybe Jack can talk endearingly about her or something. Right now I don't care about her at all.

Mitch Cooper…sounds very familiar to me. Have you used him before in a script? Anyway, I sensed something wrong with him right away. Tone that down a little so the lover reveal will be an actual surprise. Btw, didn't he get all smashed up in the face when Julie died? Where are his injuries the day after?

Addinton was good and I liked him. However, the whole thing with his mother slowed things down for me. I'm sure you wanted to have the dragonfly in there and that's fine, but please cut the scenes with her down. Get rid of the others that come to visit her.

Glenville, okay I guess. I would leave his ventures with Shauntee as something just hinted at. The whole sex/swim part felt like nothing. Why? Because he's not the main character so I don't really care. It doesn't really lead to anything either other than he comes a tad late to the Gully.

Not sure what to think about Woodie. Had a hard time picturing him somehow. Sometimes he seemed like a slick dealer/bad person and at other times he seemed like a bum.

The story you have Jeff, is good. You just need to stick to what you set up in the beginning.  Skip all unnecessary dialogue and scenes. Be brutal. Edit with a chainsaw then fill the script up again with characters that we can care about. Even if they are bad people.

Why did Jack insist so strongly that they had to go into the caves? That seemed very forced to me.

Final thought, excellent work for just a few weeks of writing!!  You should push yourself to write more…maybe read less here.  


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Dreamscale
Posted: September 12th, 2010, 12:13pm Report to Moderator
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Where did Slapshot's free legal advice go?  I wanted to thank him for reading my title page and first line...

Anyway. Slapshot, Thank You so much for your words of wisdom. You are truly a gentleman and a scholar.  Thanks.
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 13th, 2010, 12:43pm Report to Moderator
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Hey James, thanks so much for reading and feedback.  I really enjoy reading your commentary on movies and scripts, as you come up with a lot of things others don’t think of, or even consider.  Sorry for the late response, but this was opening week for the NFL, and a lot was going down.

Glad you liked it.  Yeah, you know I like to infuse as much reality as I can into a script through both product placement and real locales.

I’m not familiar with Blood Simple.  I see it‘s a Coen film.  Interesting.   As others have correctly noted, I do like my mundane simplicity setups, and I do like taking them as far as I can…and, I do enjoy putting a non standard structure spin on them to top it all off.

Cool, I’m thrilled you liked the characters and saw that they were purposely flawed.  Exactly what I was after.  My take on them, though, is that they aren’t all completely unlikable, they all make mistakes, do things they shouldn’t, and tend to look out for #1 more than others, but they’re not bad people…all the time, at least..

Mitch did think things could be worked out between the 3 of them…and they probably actually could have been, if things went down a little differently.  There is a line of dialogue near the end where Julie says something to Mitch about it being them before it was Jack and her, and it’s like a crazy circle.  The deal is that Mitch and Julie were a serious item throughout college, and then broke up, and Jack moved in, and they got married. They remained friends ever since and there wasn’t any issue about what was going on before.  So, I don’t know, I guess it all depends on where you stand on such situations.  My best friend hit on my girlfriend when I went on vacation, when we were kids, and we laugh about it to this day.  He also purposely walked in when he knew my ex wife was taking a shower, even though I had literally told him minutes before to stay away.  We’ve always been so close, those types of things actually don’t even bother us (it’s actually quite funny, in many ways), and I routinely remind him that one of these days, I’ll be repaying him for those 2 things (as well as a bunch of others), and it will involve his wife.

James, you’ve hit the nail squarely on the head here for me, and I agree with you 100% about characters needing to be interesting, not needing to be likeable.  Others do not seem to agree, and it always surprises me.  As long as a character is interesting and his actions make sense within his character, whether or not he’s the best guy, doesn’t matter.  There are so many unlikable characters that are loved.  It’s a great point and I’m really glad you brought that up.

As to the grief period, remember, Jimmy’s death took place 3 years ago, and we don’t really “see” any scenes right afterwards.  Jack doesn’t like discussing Jimmy’s death…at all.  It’s been an “off limits” topic since it went down, which is probably why he never recovered from it, and turned into such an ass.  I will relook at the scene where Jack tells Addinton the details and see if I can make it come across a little better.

You are dead on about the Flashbacks.  At first, they do come randomly, and they aren’t even in chronological order, but later in the script, they start to pop up due to exact things, as you mentioned.  Glad the flow worked for you.  I think it would flow even better onscreen, and not be as disjointed as some feel.

Thanks for the compliments on the dialogue.  You’re preaching to the choir, here, James.  I think you know how much I enjoy meaningless banter in dialogue heavy scripts/films.

Cool, glad you liked the cave scene…I do too!  I was looking so forward to writing it, and I remember each day getting closer and closer to where it was going to be, and getting more and more excited.  It flowed out pretty well and turned out to be longer than I actually planned.  I do always try and give the story and characters life outside the story at hand.  Appreciate the fact that you see this, James.  Thanks.

The supernatural elements have actually gone over better than I anticipated.  Some like the info that Julie is “in limbo” while others feel it gives too much away and allows the reader to “know” Julie is actually dead.  I’m not 100% sure yet, which way to take it, but there is a line of dialogue I’ll be removing that Ryan brought up.

The twist, to me, is the fact that Mitch is dead all along.  The fact that he was “the other man” is not supposed to be a shock or surprise.  I’m surprised you’re luke warm to the reveal.  I assumed it would be a love/hate kind of thing.

Really happy to hear the bookended montages worked for you. I’ve had a few that don’t understand their relevance and I’ve tried to explain it, but I’m not sure I’m going about it in the right way. I guess it’s a kind of either you get it or don’t thing.

Thanks again for the detailed feedback, James.  Your opinion is important t me and your insight is unique.  Thanks again!
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 13th, 2010, 4:14pm Report to Moderator
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Howdy, Brian, thanks for the read and review.  Glad you liked this script.

Yeah, you’re not alone in feeling the Vegas Flashback is a tad long.  I thought the same thing when I wrote it, but there were just a bunch of things I wanted to get across and I didn’t want to go back to it.  I’ll see what I can do to trim it, but I think I need all of it in 1 way or another, to make it work.

Cool, glad the twist worked and you were unable to pick the culprit.  As I’ve said before about Mitch, or ghosts in general, IMO, they can do whatever their creator decides they can do.  I’ve seen plenty of scripts/movies where ghosts make phone calls (you don’t actually see the ghost on the phone, as you don’t here either, but it’s revealed from the person receiving the call – and usually, you know it’s a ghost immediately, but here, obviously, you don’t find out until after the fact).

Awesome!  Exactly what I love to hear.  Thank you, Brian.  I try so hard to make my characters real.  And to me, real characters have flaws…sometimes, glaring flaws that dictate their path…and fate.   I am planning on adding 1 or 2 additional Flashbacks that will show the sweeter side of Jack and Julie.  I think that should help.

Glad you liked the dragonfly stuff.  My girlfriend was giving me shit about it early on, then warmed to it, but then said I had way too many instances where it appeared – I agreed with her, and cut out 3 scenes, so now it only appears  a total of 6 times (I think).  Addinton’s Mum’s line about Julie being dead is already gone.  A few others said the same thing you’re saying, but the James said he actually liked it in there.  I have to agree it’s a potential early reveal that shouldn’t be in here.

Great!  Glad the dialogue worked.  It’s another area I take very seriously and try very hard to come up with realistic exchanges, as well as comments that make each character stand out in some way.  Each main character has his/her own little dialogue quirks…wonder if anyone actually picked up on any of them?

I agree with you about Jack’s little drunken rant.  I remember I was wasted myself when I wrote that part, and I wasn’t sure if I liked it or hated it.  It grew on me, but I think I’ll cut it back a bit.  Good catch!

Sweet!  Very happy the bookend montages worked for you.  I had a feeling some wouldn’t like them.   You know, it‘s funny how some don’t really understand the relevance of them, while others single them out as something they really liked.  So, that’s cool with me…I guess they’re controversial in a strange way.

p22 - Missing a (V.O.) for Julie in the phone conversation. – Already fixed.

p34 - GLENVILLE - "You see patients just take off like this" - missing a question mark.   Damn!  How’d that sneak through?  THANKS!!!!  Great catch.

p39 -ADDINTON - "Can you tell us about Jimmy." - should be a question mark.  – I agree.  Good catch!

p67 - Uncapped characters? NOOOOOOO!!!! I'll let you off with it this time since it's a first draft done within 7 weeks.     - Yeah, a few already brought that up.  Damn…perfection is a tough thing to strive for…but I still will!
Thanks so much for the compliments, Brian.  It means a lot to me. Thanks for all your helpful feedback.

Take care, bud!
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 13th, 2010, 5:31pm Report to Moderator
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Hey, Pia.  Thanks for the read and feedback.  Your opinion is important to me.

Oh well, at least you liked the first 25 pages…that’s a start.  I’m really bummed you didn’t like the next 79 pages.  IMO, the 2nd half is where things really heat up and take off.  I’m surprised you felt the opposite.

As others have correctly noted, this is not a “big” story, nor is it intended to be.  I always tend to construct my plot and story around what many call “small” events, but what I like to do is take that reasonably small plot and take it as far as I possibly can and then write it in a non standard structure.  Guess it’s just me.

Yes, it is a dialogue heavy script, and all my scripts tend to be dialogue heavy.  IMO, this one is much less dialogue heavy than I usually go, but I guess you see it differently.  I’ll be the first to admit that I actually go out of my way to make sure all my dialogue (and action, as well, for that matter) does not always advance the story, or “lead to anything”.  I feel dialogue is a tool to create character, and as long as it takes place in a visually pleasing setting, or is entertaining, then it’s cool.  I know many do not agree.

You’re very easy to understand, Pia!  I hear what you’re saying.  The vast majority of “action” takes place through Flashbacks, so maybe that is giving the affect of being light on action.  There are obviously several set pieces here that are intended to be the big scenes, both in terms of action and passing of information along.  My biggest fear was that this wasn’t going to be “thrilling” enough to be labeled a thriller. The genre of thriller is not my forte, but I’m very happy with this and feel it turned out better than I was even hoping.

There has been a differing of opinions in terms of the Flashbacks.  Some agree with you, while others seem to agree with me that although it is definitely a different approach, it works, once you understand that the script is going to continue to jump back and forth in time.  It may feel odd at first, but once you accept it, it should flow pretty well.  Yeah, the Flashbacks do come back pretty easily for Jack.  Memories are a funny thing.  Sometimes, you can’t recall something to save your life that just happened and others, things you haven’t thought about in years seem clear as if they just happened.

Again, the issue with the characters likability is an issue that is very polarizing.  I am of the mindset that a character doesn’t have to be likable, to be interesting and engaging, and thus, a good character.   These are intended to be “real” characters, and real people are not without flaw.  Think about it…we’re all flawed and we all have our share of skeletons in our closets.  A mistake here and an indiscretion there do not make someone a horrible person.

Lets’ look at the Vegas Flashback, where you say you first started hating Jack.  Maybe the issue you have here has to do with your being female…I don’t know.  But I do know that if you think it’s shocking that a man would have sex with a “pro” on his Bachelor Party, you’re incorrect.  I’ve probably been to at least 15 bachelor Parties, and I’d say the majority of the time, there was quite a bit of discretionary things going on…not only with the actual Bachelor, but like everyone there.  Same deal with doing coke. For some, it’s just a party thing to do in certain situations…like a bachelor Party in Vegas, for instance.  It’s a lot more common place than you may imagine.  And “stealing” the watches was an issue for you?  It was Mitch who arranged that, first of all, but understand these guys were there to rob them of everything they had.  Mitch and Jack turned the tide and Mitch decided to take something from them as well…for their troubles.  That’s my take on it, at least.

Yes, you are correct, as the script plays out, Jack does do more and more “not so nice things”, and your opinion of his character should change.  Keep in mind that when it’s all said and done, Jack turns out to be far from a great guy, so doesn’t it make sense that his character should be questioned along the way?

Julie does need a little more backstory and she’s going to get 1 or 2 more Flashbacks that will paint both her and Jack in a more positive light, during the “good times”, early on.  Hope that will help.

Yes, Mitch Cooper was a name I used in 1 of those killer games, I think.  He’s supposed to be someone that you question early on.  It’s actually revealed quite early that what he’s saying isn’t all true.  As I mentioned in a PM to you, I see that you somehow missed the entire BIG TWIST REVEAL about Mitch.  Not sure how that could happen, but without it, the story and plot is much smaller, and less enjoyable, so I’ll be interested to see what you have to say now that you know the real deal.

I’m very surprised you didn’t like Addinton’s Mum’s scenes. Many really like them and I agree that it gives his character so much more.  It also ties everything up so nicely, involving the supernatural elements, as well as the big reveal…so…I can’t tell you that I’m going to cut any of their scenes together, and in reality, how many pages does she take up?  3 maybe?

Also really surprised you didn’t like Glenville and Shauntee.  My early readers all agree that she was one of their favorite characters.  She’s got a lot of great lines, IMO, and adds some comic relief, as well as some nice sex and nudity.  I also feel that she adds a lot to Glenville’s character as well as some much needed romance.

Woodie is not a slick dealer.  He’s like a bum in many ways, just selling his wares to whoever shows any interest.  He’s not a nice guy at all.

That’s how Jack is.  They had an itinerary and he’s the type of person that wants to stick to it.  Remember, they were on Barbados 10 years ago for their Honeymoon.  Things have changed quite a bit in those 10 years.  Harrison’s Cave has gone though a major renovation and influx of cash (and still is, actually).  It’s a highlight of the island.

Thanks for all your feedback.  It’s very helpful, Pia.  Let me know when you want me to reread your Blackout script.  Take care!
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JCShadow
Posted: September 13th, 2010, 5:44pm Report to Moderator
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Congrats on writing a script in 7 weeks.

I didn't read all the reviews in here so I apologize if I comment on something that someone already has.

Pros
I think you have written a pretty good mystery thriller here.

Around page 38 I got the feeling that Mitch was a split personality of Jack's. I may have missed the mark, but I was close to nailing it early. What clued me instantly was his lack of interaction with anyone but Jack. Still... you pulled it off nicely and it wasn't obvious.

I freaking loved the line on page 28 where Mitch says, "You know I can't make that promise." It was a laugh out loud moment for me. I actually liked Mitch and I too suspected him almost immediately upon his appearance as being the other man.

You did a great job of misdirection and adding enough subterfuge to pretty much keep me guessing clear up to the moment of revelation.

Cons (these of course are only my opinions and the only reason they are longer than the pros is because I think I owe you a better explanation of why I see them the way I do.)

There are a few awkward sentences and typo's but I am sure they have already been pointed out and I only jotted down one. In my scripts I try to keep word repetition down, especially in the same sentence, which is the only reason I bring this one up. The line on page 2, "An old, rusty pickup pulls up behind the Moke." I think "pulls in behind" would make that sentence sound better.

One thing that got repetitive was the Bajan characterization. We know where we are and as there only seem to be 3 non-Bajan's, I think it makes more sense to describe the Americans as if they are the outsiders. This will alleviate the need to continually make us aware that 95% of the characters are Bajan. Hope that makes sense...

When he describes his mental state, he continually says he is foggy, over and over. Maybe you could come up with different ways for him to describe his condition, instead of describing it the same way every time.

I noticed that when the flashbacks first start, they seem a little bit inconsistent. I think it best, especially if they are going to be used as a major device in the telling of the story, that they be consistent and laid out in a fashion that gets the readers used to or prepared for their presence. You have some that flash wayyyyyy back and then you have some (most) that flash only a few days back that propel the story foward, revealing the mystery layer by layer. (I really enjoyed that aspect of your script) Some are very short in length and some are very long. In my opinion, a flashback that is for the sake of characterization rather than moving the story forward doesn't work. And some of the really long ones could tend to lose the reader of where he is in the story. I think that is why consistent lengths of the flashbacks are important.

All of the things above really didn't bother me as far as the read or the visualization of the script goes. What I noticed more than anything else was how the first half of the script was pretty slow paced and really dragged for me. The first few pages didn't really draw me in either. But man, once you hit around page 60, the story flew by beautifully.

I really had no problems with any of the characters except Julie. Every time we saw her it seemed like she was being a bitch, so I didn't really feel like I cared what happened to her one way or the other. It may be possible that this was intentional as this is Jack's story.

Once again, great job. For only working on this for 7 weeks, you did a superb job.

John


The Door (Horror/Thriller) - 116 Pages

Currently Working On:
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 14th, 2010, 11:53am Report to Moderator
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Hey John, thanks so much for reading.  Your comments are well put together and a big help, too.

Great, glad it worked for you.  Yeah, I had to be careful with Mitch and his scenes.

Funny, I laughed at that line as well, when I wrote it.  Glad you liked Mitch…no one else seems to.  He’s not a bad guy, actually.  He’s a partier, a coke user, and a wife stealer, but other than that, I’d say he’d be cool to hang with.

Awesome.  I sure tried to pour on the misdirection and subterfuge.  I was hoping everyone would be guessing each and every character at one point.

Although I don’t feel that “pickup” and “up” represent word repetition, I do agree that “in” reads better than “up”, and I just changed it, so thanks for catching and bringing that up.

I understand what you’re saying about the “Bajan” thing, in both descriptions and wrylies.  You may or may not have noticed that not every Bajan character speaks in a thick Bajan accent.  Addinton and Glenville, for instance, don’t, and since they’re the 2 main Bajan characters, I think it makes it easier for American audiences to sit through. As Rob pointed out, he thought he’d have difficulty sitting through 2 hours of Bajan accents.  In terms of doing what you suggest, again, I hear ya on this, but I won’t be making that change, as to me, it would come across oddly.

The word “foggy” is only used 3 times in the entire script, but it’s all early on, so that’s probably why it stuck out.  I’ll see what I can come up with to replace 1 of them.

Again, I hear what you’re saying about the Flashbacks, their being consistent, and their being consistent in length, but it’s not going to happen, I’m afraid.  I realize several of them are MUCH , MUCH longer than all the others combined, even, but they are the 3 big set pieces, actually, and these scenes, IMO, need to stand out.  At first, the Flashbacks are somewhat random in terms of time and actual content.  As things progress, the Flashbacks are more driven by situations, questions, and exact details of what just transpired this week.  To me, the randomness up front works well and gives a realistic feel to things.  You know how crazy memories are.  I kid you not, I’ll be by myself somewhere in a public place, and a funny memory will hit me from out of nowhere, and I’ll seriously start busting up, to the point where people look at me and wonder what the Hell’s wrong with me.  Jack’s memories that aren’t “story related” are all unforgettable moments from his life.

You are not alone in saying the first half of the script is slower than the last half…o just slow in general.  I tend to write this way, as it’s what I like in a movie.  I prefer a good setup, characterization, and then action, twists, and finally reveal.  For me, things need to finish on a high note and the end is much more important than the beginning, as long as the beginning is strong enough to suck you in, which I hope this is.

As for Julie, it was intentional, but I think I may have went a little overboard and am planning on adding 1 or 2 Flashback scenes in which Julie will be shown in a better light with Jack, back in the good times.  I hope it will help.

Thanks again, John.  I really appreciate your feedback, and am looking forward to reading your latest draft of “the Door”.
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Mr.Ripley
Posted: September 16th, 2010, 6:11pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff,

Got to finish it. Sorry for the wait.

Here are my thoughts:

What was Woodie's invovlement in Julie's kidnapping? Disposing the body? I'm aware he had some invovlement but I have no idea to what extent. It's not clear in the script.

I didnt care about Glenville's and Shauntee's relationship especially toward the scenes at the end. I would say elimnate those Glenville's and Shauntee's sex scenes. They don't add much to the story IMO. They're just sex scenes which I don't mind but it takes away from Jack's story.  

I like the supernatural element of Mitch. But I think the cops would have discovered about Mitch or Julie for that matter a while back ago. Wouldn't someone find the bodies?  

I think you should have hinted this affair with Julie and Mitch during the wedding scene in the montage probably.  Or was Mitch invited to the wedding?

Overall, this was a good feature for seven weeks. Now, its time for revision. Not major just minor.  

Sorry that its so short but I usually jot down what comes to my head first.

Gabe  


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 16th, 2010, 6:55pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Gabe, thanks so much for finishing this and providing some feedback.  Much appreciated!

Julie wasn't kidnapped, first of all, and Woodie had nothing to do with her situation either.  I think you must have missed some integral pieces to this puzzle.

I am very surprised you didn't like Shauntee and her scenes with Glenville.  A few people have said the same thing, which is exactly the opposite I heard from literally every reader I had before I posted this.  IMO, Shauntee is a cool character with lots of great lines and scenes.  Also, IMO, sex scenes, although not ever necessary, definitely add to an R rated flick every time, in the T & A department, if for nothing else.

Also, when I write something, everyone has a life outside the actual details of the script.  IMO, it adds depth and believability to the characters.  It makes them act and react the way they do.  A romance , or even a budding romance, adds another layer to the story, and gives Glenville's character more "character", so to speak.  It also plays heavily into the finale, in terms of tension and suspense.

Everything plays out here in less than 24 hours, so no, no one would have discovered anything.  They discovered things as fast as they could, but they didn't have much to work with.  The bodies were buried in a tropical rain forest gully, and were there less than 24 hours.

Yes, Mitch was at the wedding.  They were all great friends, and had been since college.  There were several hints that Mitch was the "other guy".  It was not supposed to be a big surprise.  Many readers wished it was more concealed, actually.  Are you saying you were surprised Mitch was the one having the affair with Julie?

Glad you seemed to like this.  It was alot of work in 7 weeks.  Thanks again for your time, Gabe.  I'll read yours as soon as I see it pop up.

Take care.
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Mr.Ripley
Posted: September 17th, 2010, 8:31am Report to Moderator
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I take back the kidnapping. This is my day. lol.

But what was the point of Woodie stalking Jack? Was it to pay him for drugs? This was what led me to think that Jack was involved in the disappearance of Julie. But I thought Woodie would be too. Not Mitch.


I don't have a problem in developing characters. I'm just saying there are certain information in the story that doesn't help push it forward.  

You can still retain Shauntee and Glenville and their backstory. For example, in the beginning where Glenville is investigating the disappearance of Jules. That serves the story.

But other than that, other scenes seem to distract the reader from Jack''s story. I don't see it add tension or suspension to the end since alot of the scenes you put them in at the end are sex scenes. I don't care if they boink alot. It's only when Glenville gets the call that things turns serious. Why not turn those sex scenes into not sex scenes? Why not have Glenville a family man with Shauntee?

I was surprised. got me there.

Gabe

Hopefully I'll be finished soon. I had to add something to make more comprehensible.


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 17th, 2010, 11:21am Report to Moderator
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Hey Gabe, no problem on the kidnapping.

Woodie and Jack made some deals that Jack never made good on, so yes, he is following him to collect on a debt.  But, Woodie also is aware of what went down in the gully (although that is not 100% clear in the script, other than what he says to Jack on page 87), and it's very possible he is planning on blackmailing him.

You're 100% correct that certain info does not propel the story forward. IMO, that doesn't matter, and I always include things like this.  The tension and suspense is that Addinton gets to the gully first and is apparently taken out by Jack.  Then, Glenville arrives...will he get there in time?  Will he save the day?  You know?  That kind of suspense.

I like sex scenes, when they make sense.  If a scene works in a certain way, I'd rather it involve sex than not involve sex.  Maybe I'm a sex addict?  Maybe an old perv?  I don't know, but I feel a good R movie needs to deliver the goods, and show some nice (and unique) T & A.

Good luck on completing your script.  Let me know if I can help.

Thanks again, Gabe!
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Colkurtz8
Posted: September 18th, 2010, 10:55am Report to Moderator
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Jeff

How are things, mate? I see you got a lot of feedback on this, great to see. I’ve chosen not to browse any comments prior so to go into this blindsided.

Sorry if my general comments or page by page notes repeat stuff that has already been addressed.

In short, I enjoyed the read, a decent story you have here, relatively straightforward and simple but an admirable achievement for just seven short weeks so well done on that. It shows you can churn out something worthy when restricted by theme and time constraints.

In my notes below you should get a good flavour of my feelings towards the script as I read it. Generally speaking, the plot moved at a nice pace, probably took a while to get going but I can’t say it dragged for me. I’m quite a patient filmgoer at the best of times and enjoy a gradual build if the pay off delivers (think Apocalypse Now) Your writing as ever, is clear and concise, very clean, you’ll see below I didn’t have a whole lot to complain on the prose front. The dialogue may not always be to my liking put you can string together scenes well and it’s apparent you know where your story is at and where you want it to go.

It seems you done some painstaking research for the setting or maybe you’re just familiar with the place but I had a real sense of geography throughout the script. From the bars to the hotels, villas, beaches, caves, food, drink, wildlife etc this rung of authenticity and greatly enhanced the read. This sense of time and place was one of the most impressive parts of the script, one of its strongest assets, reminding me in a lot of ways of Louis Malle’s Atlantic City with Burt Lancaster and Susan Sarandon. That is a film relatively thin on plot, a few contrivances here and there but really augmented by the setting, locations and overall backdrop. The faded glory of the once vibrant (now decaying) New Jersey town ties into the themes of the film; age, change and the bygone era, brilliantly. It’s a case where if you shot the film anywhere else it wouldn’t possess half the power and resonance it has with, the location serving as a central character in itself.

Now, while “Unforgettable’s locations don’t necessarily tie in thematically (although I suppose you could say the resort is a symbol of happier times between Jack and Julie) they greatly supplement the dramatic elements of the story. The Bajan people, their attitudes and way of life, the beautiful beach, and weather, the surrounding tourists interspersed with open air bars, hotels, villas and vistas…and of course, most of all, the cave complex and forest (presuming these places actually do exist there)

Overall, story wise this was ok to decent as I said above. Very by-the-numbers when you take out the amnesia element but since that’s what the challenge called for, it had to be in there. Have you seen The Machinist with Christian Bale by any chance? This reminded me of it a lot in places, particularly the Mitch character and Trevor Reznik’s hallucinatory friend, Ivan. Personally, I feel you intertwined it (via flashbacks naturally) within the plot with varying degrees of success. When it worked, it served as essential back-story, providing a basis although distorted, of the relationship/friendship mechanics between the three main characters...all through Jack’s point of view. Some standout scenes include the Vegas excursion, Jimmy’s death and the glimpses of the happier, newly wedded times shared between of Jack and Julie. In the midst of all the nightmarish confusion of Jack’s post memory loss experiences these were a nice window, a rest bite even, into their once solid, loving and passionate bond.  While the Vegas and Jimmy memories provided both comic relief and overwhelming tragedy. These all gave the script some dimension and scope, subverting the otherwise straight story underneath.

However, when it didn’t work for me (as I’ve mentioned in the page by page notes) they felt too “placed” or convenient, springing up at just the right time to fit another piece into the puzzle. A number of times the flashbacks seem to come to Jack all too readily once he was probed with a relevant question. I don’t know much about the effects of amnesia but is this how it works, is it that simple? If a person can’t recall something just ask them and they can magically access that lost memory, viola! they’ll reel the sonofabitch off like it happened yesterday (which for Jack, was the case most of the time but you catch my drift)

Woodie was another issue for me. He was such an undesirably, untrustworthy character from the beginning that I had big problems believing Jack would ask for him for help outside just buying drugs off him. Asking him to tail his wife was ludicrous at worst…ill-judged at best and when this plot strand became more integral to the story and Julie’s disappearance I got increasingly bothered by its unlikelihood. It was a case of “I told you so, man, you shoulda never trust that dude” you know.

The two cops, Addinton and Glenville although endearing and wholly likeable were very ineffectual, slow on the uptake and just all around incompetent law enforcers. I understand the force is a breeding ground for complacency around the world (Clancy Wiggum thought us that) but these guys made some queer decisions at times seemingly to allow the story to sustain itself. Specific example in the page by page below.

Addinton and his dying mother offered some moving moments but I don’t know what it did to serve the story. I’m not one for every scene must forward the plot or relate directly to its progression, I’m all for character development but this wasn’t paid off in any way that I can detect. I thought Addinton was going to have the final words at the end relating his Mother’s words about dying and the dragonfly motif but it never came. Hell, who knows if Addinton even survives...does he? So I ask what was the point of that sub plot since you never really expanded upon the character outside of his profession and its procedures, which, as I said, had me scratching my head in disbelief at times (this mainly concerns the lax approach they took in tracking Mitch, not that the would’ve found anybody but still, they certainly didn’t look very hard)

Plus, I don’t know why you spent so long with Glenville and Shauntee, was it just to get some sex in there? It felt gratuitous.

The cave scenes were interesting and provided some exciting drama, sounds like an exquisite place if those caves do indeed really exist. Otherwise, the set designer has a lot of work to do. The whole confrontation and introduction of Morris and the way the sequence panned out was kinda random but like Woodie and Mitch I just knew something was suspect with him from the start thus the surprise elements generated by them were somewhat neutered.

I mean, when Morris turns on them and Kean and Rawle appear, it didn’t catch me off guard in the slightest, instead it went according to my expectations given the way things had been set up. Anybody whose ever seen a piece of drama is gonna anticipate it, I reckon. This makes it all the more exasperating that Jack doesn’t see it coming (similar case with Woodie) and walks him and Julie straight into it. On the other hand it’s definitely an extreme and...we’ll say entertaining way to get Julie back in love with Jack, I’ll admit that. Which, I take it, was your overall intention with the sequence and the influence you wanted it to have on the story and their relationship.

While you spent too much time with the cops, Julie didn’t feel developed enough. You structured the flashback well in that we saw them in classic “before” and “after” modes with some chronological alterations to mix things up and that’s totally fine. The initial wedded bliss, the accident, the deterioration of Jack, the drifting apart, her eventual impatience and cold, distant (and outside the cave) very fu?king hostile attitude before Jack proves his worth and she, in a way, falls back in love with him.

You covered all the areas but like the opening and closing montages (explained in page by page notes) they were unbalanced. I felt you focused too much on the darker periods with only glimmers of happiness/redemption at either end. Think of “Eternal Sunshine of Spotless Mind” which has a similar scenario of looking back on a broken relationship except there it was conveyed more evenly. Firstly remembering the more recent bad times before things get better as we went further back into Joel’s subconscious. This meant that by the conclusion you saw two flawed, sometimes infuriating people but there was also enough nice “stuff” shown to give you faith in them. So that you can believe they will work through things and give it another shot.

I understand the structure of that film lent itself to starting with the bad and gradually improving in order to show them there was something worth fighting for while in Unforgettable the emphasis is mainly on the previous day and night to solve the mystery and relations between Jack and Julie were obviously frayed at this point. However, the majority of the other flashback showed either an incompatible, loveless couple or Jack living it up with Mitch. Basically there wasn’t enough warmth and affection between Jack and Julie for us to really quantify their marriage as something worth saving thus rendering Jack’s plight less sympathetic.

Even after Jack protects her in the caves, there is no real moment of reconciliation; instead she waits till he nods off battered and bruised before meeting with Mitch to pour out her new found feelings for her husband. Why couldn’t she have said these things to Jack (without coming clean about Mitch) and then maybe go to tell Mitch that the affair is over? Jack can still get the tip off from Woodie and investigate so your dramatic confrontation stays intact. This will compound the tragedy of it all since it looked, a couple of scenes prior, that Julie and Jack were going to patch things up before bam! Jack is disposing of two corpses.

Finally the Mitch character, he was a tad one note wasn’t he? I like how Jack actually gets angry over the “buddy” thing cause I had become annoyed by it many pages before. You’ll see in my page by page note that he I was wary of him from nearly his first introduction. Although I didn’t figure he was a figment of Jack’s imagination (just about copped near the end) it was inevitable he was more deeply involved then what was been let on. His and Julie’s fornication again played to expectation and I was really hoping he wouldn’t be the “other man” but alas, he was.

I’ve already mentioned this a couple of times but Mitch and Jack’s relationship overshadowed Julie’s significance greatly and undermined her importance both in Jack’s waking life (dead or not) and his memories. Was this intentional? Was there something more between them? I dunno but a lot of the story was taken up by the two of them, reminding us time after time how close they were thus Julie felt sidelined for a lot of it.

Anyway, I’ve waffled on enough at this stage. There was a lot of good in here Jeff, in your defence you do practice what you preach in the technical department and write very tersely and direct (bar some minor discrepancies) You have a tight, well structured story here for the most part, coherent and easy to follow. And as I said at the top, this was an enjoyable, fluent read.

The fact that you conceived and wrote this in 7 weeks is an exceptional feat and a credit to your ability. It puts us lazy as?ed, inconsistent, sporadically productive procrastinators to shame whilst giving us some introspective food for thought etc etc etc…I’ll shut up now.

Well done, sir.


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Colkurtz8
Posted: September 18th, 2010, 10:56am Report to Moderator
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Page by page observations/corrections/reactions/etc

Pg  1 - Do you always only leave one space between action lines and subsequent scene headings in your scripts?

“Two SKYDIVERS race through the air in free fall, as they
plummet towards Earth.”

-- No need for the comma before “as” in my opinion but it’s no big deal either. I think we’ve had the Jeff-and-his-use-of-commas conversation before on more than one occasion so I’ll drop it henceforth.

“Bubbles of excitement rise to the surface.”

-- Perceptive visual detail here, nice.

EXT. SKI RUN – DAY

-- Would SKI SLOPE be more accurate?

“huge rooster tails of fluffy snow.”

–- See “Bubbles of excitement” comment above.

“One points to a family of DEER crossing the trail below them.”

–- Heck, this is turning into a travel agency advert.

“"boof"”

-– Love the effect, how tactile of you, Jeff. It perfectly describes said sound.

“As the rapids calm, they raise their paddles above their
heads in exhilaration.”

-- Maybe change the ending to “...heads, triumphantly” or just “...heads, exhilarated”

Pg 2 - “They watch with wide smiles on their faces as the dolphins head out to sea.”

-- I thought for a minute it was the Dolphins smiling (which I suppose they do naturally) and this was turning into Madagascar 3: Dolphins, The Origin Story.

Great way to end the montage with a bang (pun shamefully intended),  a complete contrast to the preceding postcard imagery. I remember years ago they used to have an ad on TV over here for dangerous driving and its horrific consequences with Louis Armstrong’s “What a Wonderful World” playing over for disarming effect until the guy crashes. Your intro really reminds me of that.

Pg 4 – Liked the listen-to-your-Mother banter between the officer and Corbin, a light, brief diversion from the main plot, naturally written too.

Pg 5 – “Both 35, Scottsdale, Arizona”

-- Good ole Scottsdale gets a name drop...and sure why not!

“EXT. SEDONA, AZ - LOS ABRIGADOS RESORT – DAY”

-- Man, this couple certainly like their vacations. Every scene so far, flashback or otherwise, has taken place on a picturesque location of some sort yet an underlying tragedy is apparent in Jack (the kid being knocked over at the beginning is a dead giveaway of course) None of this is a criticism by the way, just an observation.

Quite a jumbled, disorientated opening few pages to this too. By page 5 it’s still difficult to know what’s really going on which acts as an effective reflection of Jack’s state of mind since he’s been either knocked out or barely conscious for the duration of the story so far.

Pg 6- I see you’re having a great time with the names and I’m having an entertaining time reading them. Especially the public servants; Glenville, Addinton and Everton, I’m looking forward to seeing what gems are yet to come.

Pg 8 - I’m not well up on amnesia and its various forms or Caribbean holiday hot spots for that matter but it seems like you’ve done your homework on the locations and subject matter here. I mean, it seems realistic to a layman like myself so kudos for taking the time to research what you’re writing about. It makes all th difference like in the Doctor/Inspector scene on pages 7 and 8.

Pg 9 - “Julie stands with a MAN at the entrance”

-- No harm including the Man’s age here, just for visualisation purpose...or is he too far away for us to recognize?

Pg 10 – “He reaches out, grabs it, gives it a look.”

-- No need for “gives it a look” here in my opinion, it doesn’t read very well either. The first two actions will suffice before the INSERT.

“Mitch Cooper”

You’re not letting me down with the names, Jeff, this dude sounds like a porn star or the hero of a balls out, no brainer action flick...sometimes there’s a fine line between the two.

Plus, Mitch’s response time is remarkably fast, he can just fly out there on a whim like that on such short notice!

Pg 11 – “EXT. MOUNT RAINIER - SUMMIT – MORNING”

-- More exotic locales! Jeez does this guy take a moment to sit back and enjoy the simple life. I’m curious to see what he does for a living; Superhero perhaps, James Bond maybe??

Pg 12 - ADDINTON
I know. It's a tough time for all
of us. For some reason, you think
this time will never come.

DR. SANDIFORD
It's a matter of time, now, though,
so take every opportunity you can to
see and talk with her. We've done
all we can to prolong it.

-- Just a pet peeve of mine (yet I do it myself time and again) and something that always sticks out for me on the page is the close repetition of words in close proximity. In prose, it should be avoided while in dialogue it sometimes can’t be. On the contrary,, it lends itself to realism for characters to use bad grammar and repeat themselves just like real people.

In this case, I’m talking about the word “time” in both their dialogues. A perfectly suitable word to use in the context on the conversation but maybe consider changing Saniford’s line to incorporate a specific time period. For example “It’s a matter of month/weeks/days/hours” or whatever, just to diversify it a little bit while also maintaining it as something a doctor would actually say.

This morbid conversation seems a little out of place too, as if it’s a footnote at the end of Jack’s situation. Would Addinton’s dying mother not take precedence over some Stranger’s amnesia. I know Addinton is an officer of the law on duty but the placement of such a topic feels ill fitting. It’s like “Now that we have the business end of things tied up, er...your mother is on the way out” I mean, what a conversation flip. As a consequence, it feels very wedged in there in order to create a depth of character and back ground for Addinton. I’ll be interested to see what you do with that further on.

That whole philosophical take on death by both characters before they enter Jack’s room is all a little too glib, mawkish and on the nose for my taste...but that could be just me and my cold, black stone sometimes referred to as a heart.

Pg 13 - “The door opens, the two walk in.”

-- New scene means character names even if it’s blatantly obvious, right?

Pg 14 – Does the flashback here happen before or after the flashback on page 9 where Jack goes for a dive? If after, why isn’t he asking her about her altercation on the beach with the ageless guy? Since he doesn’t, I’m presuming it takes place before.

Pg 15 – DR. SANDIFORD
Alright. I think you should rest
now, Jack. Let's not overdue it.
These things take time.

-- My suspicions were immediately piqued by Saniford’s hasty intervention here when discussing the guy on the beach...or is this just some subtle, deceptive red herring-ism on you part.

JACK
No, he was white, mid 30's.

-- Ah, this mystery man has an age after all.

Pg 17 - “conch fritters”

-- I will always have fond memories of anything Conch related since William Golding’s “Lord of the Flies” glad to see it gets a mention here.

“island sexy,”

-- Um, can you explain what this suggests?

Pg 18 - SHAUNTEE
Glenville, you gonna owe me some
civic duties later on tonight, you
hear me?

GLENVILLE
You keep them fritters warm for me.
I'll have her back as soon as
possible, and I'll pay my debt to
your society after work tonight.

-- Whoa, some seriously thinly veiled sexual innuendos and implications going on around here. I’m liking these liberal island sensibilities more and more.

Pg 19 – Kinda odd that a presumably healthy Mitch is demanding a clinically unwell Jack to come meet him at his desired location. I could be reading too much into it but it’s all rather fishy. Thus my suspicions are automatically triggered now in regards this smooth talkin’ porn star/action movie protag.

“He takes an uncertain first step, stretches, takes another step, much better, and makes his way to his clothing.”

Jack changes out of his hospital attire into the soiled
clothes he had on earlier. He pockets his phone and wallet, tentatively opens the door.

He peeks out, left, then right, and is on his way.

-- Maybe have a CUT TO: (I know how much you love them) or a slug stating MOMENTS LATER between the sentence ending in “clothing” and pick up again at “A fully clothed Jack pockets his phone...” Unless you want us to sit through Jack getting dressed.

Plus I thought the hospital would’ve least washed his clothes.

Pg 20 – “He walks through the resort towards the pool, in the rear.”

-- Awkward phrasing, in my opinion. Omit “in the rear”, not necessary.

Pg 23 - JACK
Mitch?

-- Would Jack not remember what he looked like from the Mount Rainier flashback?

Pg 25 - “OFFICER ORLANDO ANDWELE”

-- Once again you knock it out of the park, brother! What can I say, you don’t disappoint, each handle better then the last, brilliant.

Pg 26 - ADDINTON
We'll get Jack at the hospital, and
see what we can find at their villa.
You never know...maybe the missus is
there watching the telly, wondering
where her loving husband's been.

-- Would they say “missus” in the Caribbean?

GLENVILLE
That would be nice, Addinton. That
would be nice.

-- Its becoming a mannerism of his to repeat things, an acutely observed trait on your part, nice detail.

ALEXIS
You like what you see? I definitely
like what I see. You wanna eat my
baby pussy? She's all yours.

-- Ha, ha, gotta kick out of the “baby pussy” line, what a girl! And where the fu?k do these classy birds reside outside of debauched weekends in Vegas?

Pg 31 - JACK
Damn, Coop, since when you start
carrying a hand canon?

-- “Hand Canon” A Pulp Fiction rip right there.

Pg 34 - ADDINTON
What do you mean, he's gone? Did he
just walk out?

-- Ok, I’m thinking Mitch is the real deal and says who he says he is, the Vegas flashback confirms that. So, I’m thinking now you merely had Mitch make Jack adhere to his rendez-vous meeting point just to get him out of the hospital and in turn unwittingly allude the authorities in order to perpetuate the story and generate a cat and mouse type scenario. If this is indeed the motivation, I’m not really buying it and see it as a weak device to drive the plot.

I mean, would Jack have slipped out of the hospital so easily? It is an Island after all, how run off their feet are they, how big is this hospital?? Why would Jack even agree to leave the hospital in the first place where he was being well looked after and kept safe. Logically speaking, Mitch should have come to visit him and not the other way around (unless, of course in fact does have some sinister ulterior motive), that’s just common sense. And as I said if it’s just serving as a way to get Jack out of the hospital when Addinton and Glenville come looking for him I’m not convinced, it’s too much of an implausible contrivance, in my opinion.

Pg 36 - Ok, it seems there’s no hi-octane running around after one another about to ensue because of Jack absconding. He looks to be fairly compliant with Addinton’s request to meet at the beach.

EXT. BENTON HOUSE - REAR BREEZEWAY – DAY

-- Finally! We see this perennial jet setter at his humble homestead.

JACK
Oh fuck! Son of a fuckin' whore
bitch cunt!

--...and he once had Tourette syndrome!


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Pg 37 - GLENVILLE
Strange, don't you think?
Addinton stares ahead.

ADDINTON
Indeed. He seems to be cooperating
though...and he immediately asked
about his wife. I don't know what
to think.

-- My thoughts exactly, Gents, I’m glad I’m not alone here. I gather this is where you want the audience’s awareness to be at come this point too? In my case anyway, you’ve succeeded so far.

Pg 38 - MITCH (V.O.)
My room just opened up. I've got to
get unpacked. I'll meet up with you
guys a little later. Or maybe I'll
swing by your place...once you know
where the Hell it is.

-- Once again my suspicions are raised about this guy...or is that what you want us to do?

Pg 41 – “The mower somersaults in the air in SLOW MOTION”

-- Stop the presses!! Is this a piece of direction courtesy of Jeff Bush? Say it aint so! Fu?k it, I don’t really mind depending on the situation although you don’t want to go all Michael Bay on us with the slo-mo. Why not have the mower flip in real time? Much more intense and visual striking if you ask me.

“Jack wipes his eyes, swooshes his hands through his hair,”

-- “Runs” might be more appropriate here than “swooshes” I realise you want to vary and spice up the prose wherever possible but swooshes sticks out, just doesn’t sit right with me.

P 43 - INT. COLINA DEL MAR VILLA - MOMENTS LATER

“Jack leads the way into the living area”

-- How did they gain entry? Does Jack have a key?

ADDINTON
Does Tiger need to worry?

-- Screw Tiger, man, and this has nothing to do with his recent extra marital activities, he’s just too obvious. Name drop Harrington or Singh or someone. Anybody but Woods, please.

P 44 – “On a table, a mirror with several lines of cocaine and a rolled up $100 bill sit.”

- Maybe rephrase this to “On a table sits a mirror with several lines of cocaine and a rolled up $100 bill on top of it.” or something to that effect.

Pg 46 - JACK
Yeah, that's not surprising. I ended
up paying him to keep an eye on Julie,
too, just to get rid of his ass. He
kept hounding me, always wanting
more money.

-- Frankly, this doesn’t make much sense to me. Why would you have your newly acquainted drug dealer watch yer ever growing estranged wife for you? And how would granting him this privilege get him off your back? And on what basis was Woodie wanting more money off him? Many unanswered questions here which Addinton, a cop, didn’t feel compelled to follow up on. A head scratcher to be sure.

Pg 47 – “Jack shakes his head, turns back towards the water.”

-- A lot of head shaking in these flashbacks from Jack. Why doesn’t he confront Julie, its clear something is up with her? After Jack’s performance in the Luxor hotel room, he doesn’t seem like a man shy of confrontation, coke induced or not.

JACK (CONT'D)
Listen, I want you to know that I
don't know where my wife is.

-- Again that repetition of “know” reads clumsily. How about “Listen, I want you to know that I have no idea where my wife is”

GLENVILLE
Heading upstairs. All clear on the
first floor.

-- Sh?t, all this time and he’s only searched the ground floor? How big are these villas or how slow is Glenville in searching a place?

Pg 48 –- EXT. COLINA DEL MAR VILLA - TERRACE - MOMENTS LATER

“The three men all stand together, looking down at the water.”

-- New scene requires character names for clarity, agreed?

ADDINTON
Yes, already discussed it. We can
thank our friend, Mr. Woodie for
that. Jack also had him tailing
Julie. We need to bring him in ASAP

-- Once again the line “Jack also had him tailing Julie.” doesn’t illicit a “Whoa, hold on, what?!” response from Glenville, an officer of the frickin’ law!

I wasn’t aware of the Dragonfly symbolism, a nice touch. Kinda reminds me of the snowflake motif in your “Fade To White”.

EXT. COLINA DEL MAR VILLA - MOMENTS LATER

“As the three men walk out, a small, beat up car comes to
life, just beyond the driveway.”

-- New scene requires character names for clarity, agreed??

Pg 49 - ADDINTON
Jack, is there anything you're not
telling us...about your...transactions
with Woodie?

-- Alas, the piggy asks the question of everyone’s lips, hurray! The cliché of a dumbas?ed, small town police force wasn’t lost on you, Jeff.

While I feel you’ve handled the flashbacks remarkably well, gradually giving out morsels of information at a time to keep Jack and us guessing, they are becoming increasingly convenient. It’s like when Jack is asked a question Bing! The screen turns wavy and we are treated to short scene answering the said query. It’s happened on numerous occasions with Woodie’s proposition to Jack about “sorting out” Julie being the latest example. I mean if this is the case, why don’t Jack tell Addinton and Glenville to ask him all sort of questions to sift out those obscured memories in order to piece together the puzzle. OK, I know it’s not meant to work like that but you get what I’m saying, these flashbacks seem to be flooding back to Jack’s mind literally on cue.

Don’t you think Jack appears way too eager in accepting Woodie’s offer? His deep love for Julie is driven home in the preceding flashbacks until now when some low life he’s just met tells him that he saw her hanging out with some dude and bam! Jack is ready to knock her off, just like that. Now I realise you’ve been made well known that Jack was suspicious of her lately and how she had been acting weird but would he not like to at least confront her first?

He doesn’t even seem that heartbroken when Woodie tells him, it’s like he’s skipped the shock, grief and anger phases and jumped directly into ice cold revenge mode. The whole conversation comes off as rushed and implausible in my opinion, as he’s seemingly making these huge, life changing decisions on the spot.

Pg 52 - JACK
I will. I'll get Mitch and see what
we can find.

The SUV pulls out in a cloud of dust.

-- Would Glenville and/or Addinton not follow up on Mitch and fix to meet him? Just to check him out since he is so close to Jack after all. Would they not see him as a helpful individual to question for some background information on the couple?

Pg 54 – The conversation between Addinton & Genville is easily the most expository scene of dialogue since the 162 minutes of Jimmy Cameron’s Avatar (170 if referring to the special edition in cinemas now). Waay too much guiding of the audience here, why not let us weigh up the possible scenario’s or at lesast some of them. Maybe have Orlando interrupt them after the third one or something as, to be fair, this is a conversation two police officers would probably have. Just don’t set it up so harmoniously whereby as soon as we’re given out the options, the radio suddenly “comes to life”.

ORLANDO (V.O.) (CONT'D)
Mitch Cooper didn't just check in at
the Almond. He's been there for
three days now.

-- Hmm, the plot proverbially thickens. I’ll stay on the fence though till I learn more.

ADDINTON
I think there's a reason this Mitch
character's been avoiding us.

-- Ha, more like ye’re incompetent asses were not making much of an effort to track him down. Ye knew where he was staying since earlier on, get on over there already!

Pg 55 – “In the distance, the sun drops into the ocean.”

-- An all too commonly used visual but nicely worded nonetheless.

Pg 56 - “He doesn't even hesitate, slams through them, sending two of them down.”

-- He he, nice one Woodie, drive on! I’m digging this guy’s determined attitude.

“Glenville collides with a young WOMAN in front of him, falls down into a lounge chair, rolls to the edge of the pool.”

-- The word “bungling” comes to mind when I picture this, quite an amusing (albeit well written) chase scene you got going on here.

“Jack enters, immediately eyes the table in front of him.
The glass, bottle, and lines of coke are no longer there.”

-- Forgot about this. Would the cops not have at least confiscated the good stuff if they weren’t going to arrest him for it?


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Pg 57 – You have it nicely set up here whereby the audience is on to Mitch, fearing he’s not all on the level while Jack is completely unaware. Nice, ambient setting too for such a scene.

JACK
We gotta find her, man.

-- I’m sorry, Jeff but this just does not sound like the words of a husband whose trying to find his missing wife, cheater or no cheater. Too lax, too blasé, devoid of any real loss, pain or emotion. I’m not saying for Jack to freak out or turn the whole thing into a melodrama but this reads so flat and perfunctory, almost makes me think Jack killed her...or again, is this what you want us to think?

Pg 58 – “Jack watches in awe.”

-- Really? “in awe” sounds a little over the top in the context of the scene.

Once again we’re served another of those pitch perfectly timed flashbacks to deal specifically with the question at hand.

I’m so sure about Jack’s constant rubbing of temples prior to each memory either, rather clichéd and I could imagine becoming increasing silly looking on screen with every occurrence. We’ve all seen Wayne’s World, right?

Anyway, this whole arrangement between Woodie and Jack is what’s really not working for me plot-wise. It’s a recipe for disaster from the get-go, its written in the fu?king stars that it’s simply a bad idea. For me, any tension or drama can be derived from it will be limited because of this anticipation. When it happens it will be just an Oh yeah, I knew that was gonna happen” moment. Unless, of course, you throw the mother of curve balls a la “Fade to White”

Pg 59 - ADDINTON
A huh. If I were your age...

-- Is “A huh” a typo? I thought it would be more like “Uh huh”. No biggie.

Pg 60 - “Addinton raises his eyebrows, puts his arm around Glenville's shoulder.”

ADDINTON
Indeed.

-- Sometimes Addinton acts and sounds like a distinguished English gent dropped in from Victorian times complete with snot green tweed attire, pocket watch, pipe and a Dickens novel tucked under his arm...Having said all that he did just utter the phrase “Enough stuff in here to bust his ass good when we find him.” seconds earlier. Maybe he’s got an alter ego.

Pg 63 - “incase”

-- Space missing.

“ADDINTON
Affirmative. I'm going to pick up a
car, check on my Mum at the hospital.
Glenville's off for a few hours...I
hear he has a hot date tonight.”

-- WTF! Would ever occur to these two knuckleheads to maybe, just maybe give Jack a bell and see if Mitch is with him. It just might be worth checking out...actually it’s the most logical thing to do in this case, don’t you agree? Instead one guy is visiting his dying mother and the other is off getting his hole (a good excuse as any but you know, someone is missing here, they got a job to do, Mitch is prime suspect along with Woodie, etc). This is not a good advertisement for Caribbean police forces Jeff, do not expect them on your Christmas card list this year.

Pg 66 – “Jack and Mitch throw up a High Five.”

-- This is just me but high fives should be kept to a minimum at all times both in art and life unless done in a piss-take mocking kind of way (I think we may have had this before regarding “Fade to White”) It just reeks of brawny football jocks and messaged egos.

“Jack laughs to himself,”

-- Again, I’m perplexed by Jack’s reaction here. Would this happy memory not make him depressed considering how fu?ked up things are now with his son deceased, his drug taking, Julie’s subsequent affair and disappearance?

ADDINTON
God's given her a full life. She's
going to a better place.

-- I could be mistaken here but is this Addinton’s third time saying something resembling these words or to the same effect when talking about his sick mother? If so, it’s too repetitive thus becomes insincere.

Pg 67 – “Kemmerick, 40, Osbert, 35, and Hamish, 30

-- Once again I heartily salute the fantastic names but why no capitals? We’ve haven’t met these people before, have we?

Pg 69 – “Her head turns slowly towards Addinton.”

-- You might want to replace “Her” with “Mrs. Harewood” here since I thought for a second it was the dragonfly.

A poignant scene you have here, reads a little overly sentimental for my tastes but I already explained about the darkened pump I have for a heart. I think in pure emotionally driven scenes like this it all comes down to the actor’s performance. There is such a fine line between the powerful and the manipulative, for me these scenes can be the hardest to get right, tonally. This reads OK I guess but it’s difficult to know until you got people actually saying the words to one another.

Also, I find it hard to be completely engaged in it as we’ve only seen the mother once before now, mainly hearing about her irreversible condition via Dr. Sandiford to Addinton himself when he goes on about God’s way and all that. In fact, we don’t know much about Addinton either except for his rather casual approach to work in getting on top of the Julie matter as I’ve already alluded to numerous times.

“Shauntee wears a see through black negligee top, open to her navel, revealing her more than abundant rack, in all its glory.”

-- Ah, some native T & A to drool over...and on page 69 too, hardly a coincidence I bet!

Pg 70 - “Shauntee pulls him inside.

SHAUNTEE
Don't be makin' no excuses, already,
Glenville. You hear me? Get your
sorry ass in here...now!

She pulls him in. The door slams shut.”

-- Just trying to visualise this. She pulls him to the door, says her few words and then pulls him inside or what? It’s a little unclear the way you’ve it written. It’s like she pulls him in twice.

“ORLANDO
I sure do, Inspector. A call came
in a few hours ago from an employee
over at Harrison's Cave.”

-- Jeez, this Orlando dude is coming up trumps time and time again. He hasn’t let us down once. I hereby prematurely elect him as the “real” hero of the piece.

Pg 71 - ORLANDO
It slipped through the cracks,
apparently, Sir.

-- Maybe reword this to something like “It apparently slipped through the cracks, Sir” Sound more natural, in my opinion.


ORLANDO
Dispatch didn't
think anything of it. I just found
it in a stack on the front desk.
The license plate is a match of the
missing vehicle.

-- Hmm, having a hard time swallowing this. It’s all, yet again, too convenient and feels too set-up to drive the story along its path.

Wow, Julie is really showing her true colours (i.e. a total cu?t) on pages 72/73. Then again, Jack is your classic unreliable narrator and this is a fragmented flashback from his meddled mind so it’s hard to know who or what to truly believe.

Pg 73 - “Jack walks up to the ticket area, while Julie lags behind, a scowl on her face.”

-- Maybe change the ending to “while Julie lags behind, scowls (or scowling).” As where else can a scowl take place only on your face, it’s not necessary to detail it.

Pg 75 - JACK
Jesus, Jules, what's with you?

-- Yep, I can second that, what is up with this bit?h. This is the first real extended flashback of Julie and man, she is not making a good impression of herself. Of course, this is all through the tint of Jack’s distorted memories.

Yeah, that Morris guy was inevitably not to be trusted, it was almost a given he was gonna screw them over.

Great names in Kean and Rawle too.

Pg 80 - JULIE
Get your filthy hands off of me, you
bastard!

-- Perfectly realistic line, it just feels like it’s been lifted from a thousand other films though. Possibly drop the “filthy”.

Pg 81 - “Jacks flips onto his back, tries to stand.”

-- Omit the “s” in “Jacks”

Pg 82 – “Julie watches through tear filled eyes, terror obvious.”

-- The “terror obvious” reads very clunky. How about a simplified “Julie watches through tear filled eyes, terrified.”

“Rawle wipes drool from his lips, moves in close”

-- Has he transformed into a slobbering retard now or what, or just a person from Tennessee? In other words, this feels too overdone, too much on the primitive caveman-like satisfying his carnal urges side, you know. Let’s keep him human but still menacing without resorting to gross animalistic characterisations, just my opinion.


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Pg 83 – Fu?k me, Jack is one badass mofo, overpowering a man and two...well not so human organisms with the force and ruthlessness of Max Cady. Like Morris, I’m “impressed” too.

Pg 84 – “Jack lies in bed, eyes shut, with an ice pack on his head.”

“His eyes flicker open.”

-- Waking within a flashback, don’t know if I’ve ever seen that before. An element of “Inception” to a certain degree can be seen in that whether you intended it or not.

Pg 85/86 – Note to self...Need to get me a girl like Shauntee, can they be purchased or rented for a nominal fee over there?

Pg 86 - ORLANDO
All quiet. No sign of him yet.

-- First time I think he hasn’t had some nugget of vital information to divulge, he’s slippin’.

Pg 88 – “Jack closes his phone, eyes mad with rage.”

INT. COLINA DEL MAR VILLA - MOMENTS LATER

“Jack snorts a line of coke off a mirror on the table. He
raises his head quickly, rubs his nostrils. His eyes
wild...enraged.”

-- Again, it’s this repeating of “rage” that instantly sticks out for me. How about changing “enraged” to “intense” ”angry” ”furious” etc. Anything but a variant of the same word used a mere couple of lines before it.

Pg 89 - MITCH (V.O.)
Just hanging. What's up?

-- What a nonchalant response given the events of the past 24 hours. Is Mitch even real?

Pg 90 - ADDINTON
You got something for me?

-- Of course he fu?kin’ does, man, this is Orlando “finger on the pulse” Andwele we’re talking to here. Any sh?t that does down, this motherfu?ker is on it like flies on cow dung.

“You got something for me?” (patronizing scoff) The cheek of him!

Pg 91 – “A hand reaches in through the open door, grabs Woodie's wrist holding the knife. It twists up, slices Woodie's throat open in a single, violent motion.

Woodie falls forward against the steering wheel. A torrent of blood pours from his gaping neck wound.”

-- Nice jolt of gore here, good visual of Woodie seemingly cutting his own throat. But knowing the ending now, why would Jack do this? Doesn’t he not believe Woodie might have some answers for him concerning Julie’s whereabouts at this point?

Pg 92 – “Jack exits from a small restroom, just outside the forest.”

“Mitch walks up from the parking lot.”

-- Why doesn’t Jack see Woodie’s car parked below? (Knowing the ending, i understand)


MITCH
Jack...c'mon, man. We both know
damn well about Woodie...don't we?

-- This ambiguous line is left hanging on the edge of the scene and not addressed or referred to when we pick up a couple of scenes later until Mitch presses the issue. What gives? If I were Jack I would be asking what Mitch meant by that statement before we took another step into the forest.

Pg 94 – “Jack closes his eyes, rubs his temples.”

-- He’s gotta stop rubbing his temples, man, seriously. It’s like the equivalent of Barbara Eden’s signature blink before performing magic in “I Dream of Jeannie”...and I trust you don’t want your script to evoke memories of that show, charming as it was.

Its cool how both flashback and present scenes are now melding into one as Jack is at the same location in both timelines. A nice way to fu?k with the audience and challenge their level of attention and understanding about what’s going on, trying to distinguish between the two. The lines are welcomingly blurred as we reach the climax, further representing Jack’s frazzled mindset.

“Jack steps out of his Moke, his face a mess, his eyes wild with rage.”

-- Swap “rage” with something else here, just for the sake of diversity.

“Monkeys scamper about all around, as Jack approaches a rise in the landscape, where a rock wall shoots up to the right, and the land drops off sharply to the left.”

-- This needs to be broken up in order for it to read better. How about: “Monkeys scamper about all around as Jack approaches a rise in the landscape. A rock wall shoots up to the right while the land drops off sharply to the left.”

Note the inclusion of a full stop and removal of two commas.

Pgs 94-95 - Just curious, is Mitch’s & Julie’s conversation meant to be within Jack’s earshot?

“Mitch spins, falls backward, loses his footing, and slips over the edge of the precipice.

There's a dull THUD, as his body hits the forest floor below.”

-- Golden rule: Never ever have an illicit, clandestine rendezvous with your best friend’s wife (whom you are fu?king) at night-time beside a godda?n precipice! You’re just not thinking things through there.

“Their eyes lock, as she plummets down.”

-- Very Die Hard-esque...minus the slow motion.

“Jack relentlessly scoops out the wet earth, his clothes and body covered in mud.”

-- What kind of a grave do you think he can dig with this rock? He would struggle big time methinks yet two bodies get dumped in there. Not impossible but very very difficult I would imagine.

Pg 99 - JACK
You took the one thing I still
had...my wife, my Jules. I can't
forgive you for that, buddy.

-- I would take out “buddy” at the end, too corny in my opinion.

Maybe break up this scene with a slug to indicate that some time has passed between him bludgeoning Mitch and placing the stone marker on top. As it’s written, it feels as if the whole event took place in less then 60 seconds.

Pg 101 - He takes off towards Glenville, full speed, knife out in front.

-- Sorry but I couldn’t help laughing when I read this. It’s reads funny while also conjuring up an amusing image in my head of this lunatic running at an armed cop with a “knife out in front” screaming aahhhh! very schlock horror-ish.

“They burst over a small waterfall and "boof" in unison.” – There’s that “boof” again, love it.

JULIE
I love, honey. I'll love you forever.
Don't you ever forget it.

-- Missing “you” between “love” and “honey”. Unless she’s picking a really inappropriate time to confess her deep affection for the preserve.

JACK
Can you believe that? God, it's
beautiful...unforgettable...just
like you.

-- Bit of a cheesy closing line, a bit gushing, they were only Dolphins after all, big woop. I’d excise this dialogue altogether and let the image do the talking.

You bookended it nicely with the montages. Since three fifths of the shots feature Jack and Mitch’s time together are you putting more emphasise on their shattered friendship as opposed to Jack and Julie’s broken union? From reading the script I figured it was more about Jack and Julie, their relationship and how the tragic loss of their son split them apart and culminated in the events featured in the piece.

On that basis, I wonder would the inclusion of a shot showing Jimmy after he’s knocked down or before add more punch to the final montage. This, after all, is the kernel of what’s happened here. He is the reason things got so fu?ked up.

As I said, it’s an effective way to conclude matters, I just don’t know if it’s accurately weighted to reflect the themes and overall plotline of the script itself. Maybe an extra scene with Jimmy would even it up at 3 montage clips each, thus providing a more accurate and balanced summation of events.


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Dreamscale
Posted: September 20th, 2010, 12:21pm Report to Moderator
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Hey, Col, things are good.  You know what I say, the more feedback, the better, and when your feedback is included, I’m golden.  Thanks.  Wow, a quadruple post!  Damn, I have a lot to respond to.  I appreciate when people go in blind, with no prior information on a script or movie.

Great, glad you enjoyed it.  As always, the plot is straight forward and simple, but the execution and structure hopefully make it stand out.  7 weeks go pretty quickly!

You’re correct.  I did do a lot of research for this.  It actually helps me in the very early stages, with setting up scenes and the like.  I did spend 8 nights on the island, back in the 90’s.  Glad it showed through and enhances the read for you.  I appreciate reality in scripts and movies myself, so I make a point of getting my facts down.  I agree the island is another character in itself.  Everything , including Harisson’s Cave and Welchman Hall Gully  is real and actually in Barbados except for Shauntee’s Bar  & Grille.  You can Google any of this stuff and see pics and get details, like Jack’s villa, Colina del Mar.

Very by the numbers?  Really?  I don’t think so.

Yes, I saw The Machinist recently and absolutely hated it.  MY girlfriend and I both were bored stiff, depressed, and even grossed out by Mr. Bale’s look.

Glad some of the Flashbacks worked for you.  I see what you and others are saying about some of the Flashbacks being too easily recalled or “placed” as you put it.  Personally, I don’t see it as a problem, but I do hear you.

Surprised you didn’t find the Woodie connection realistic.  Not sure if you are familiar with people like Woodie, but they’re everywhere on Caribbean islands, and some are actually really cool.  You literally don’t know at first about them.  Back in the day, I used to travel to the Caribbean every year, and I met several of these people.  All but one were really cool. The one who wasn’t totally ripped me off, and was the kind of guy you don’t want to fuck with.  Why would I trust such a person?  Who knows?  I did, though.

Woodie is obviously somewhat of a red herring the whole way through.  You know, the guy who seems so blatantly guilty that he probably can’t be.  I tried to weave his story into the overall story so that bad guy or not, his place here is crucial to how all the events play out in the end.

Col, I have to completely disagree with you about Addinton and Glenville being anywhere near incompetent.  Guess I’ll hit those instances you brought up in your page by page notes.  Keep in mind a few things though.  First of all, the Royal Barbados Police Force is known for being corrupt and  crap.  I didn’t want to portray them that way at all, so I went out of my way to make them all likable and good cops, trying to do the right thing.  They first got wind of Julie being missing in the morning, and by the end of that same day, look how much shit the figured out.  In the US, the cops wouldn’t even get started until a 24 hour period had gone by in a missing person case with no witnesses.  We’ll have to discuss this further!

Addinton’s Mum did play into things, IMO.  She was the connection between here and there, and brought in the supernatural element and was the one who explained the dragonfly motif.  I am making a few changes to some things she said, based on comments.  But, Col, you know I don’t believe at all that everything and every character has to move the story forward.  Addinton does survive, BTW, but I’m glad you asked, actually.

OK, back to the police work.  You’re talking about why they didn’t search very hard for Mitch.  Why would they, first of all?  They didn’t know anything about his, other than he was a friend of Jack’s.  They did figure out that Mitch had arrived on the island much earlier than he said, and they did check his suite, and even leave a man there, waiting for him to return. This was all in a period of a few hours.  How is that poor police work?  I think Glenville will be up for a promotion and Purple Heart after banging Shauntee and saving Addinton within an hour or so.

As I’ve mentioned a few times now, the dislike for Shauntee is shocking.  Every single reader I had before I posted this, said she was their favorite character and they all loved the scenes with Glenville and her.  Now, everyone seems to dislike them.  Are they meaningless?  No, I feel they say a lot about Glenville.  Are they gratuitous?  Of course, they are.  IMO, pretty much 98% of sex/nudity scenes are gratuitous in nature and not necessary.  R rated movies need good sex and nudity scenes though.  They are incomplete without them, IMO.

Harrison’s Caves definitely exist.  Morris turning out to be a bad dude was not supposed to be a shock.  It’s kind of one of those things that horror movies do…set up a situation that you know isn’t going to turn out well…but there’s nothing you can do about it, which makes them more powerful, IMO.  Nothing was downright stupid that Jack and Julie did, but you can still yell at them not to go with Morris.

Julie will be getting 1 or 2 additional Flashback scenes that will draw her out a bit more and hopefully show her nicer side.

It’s a dark script overall, much like most of my writing.  To me, though, there is much beauty here as well, and although things end up ugly, in a strange way, it just may have ended up best for all involved.

Mitch is definitely Mitch, and if that means he’s one note, so be it.  He’s a hard partying, fun loving guy.  He may come off as a sum bag when it’s all said and done, but like everything, there are many good sides to him as well.  Glad you caught the “Buddy” thing in the end.  BTW, Mitch is not a figment of Jack’s imagination…he’s a ghost here.  He came back to make sure his best friend didn’t walk clean from this.  In no way was I trying to conceal Mitch being the other man.  In some ways, it’s actually a red herring because it seems so obvious, maybe it’s not going to work out that way, but more so, it takes interest away from the fact that Mitch is dead all along.

Yes, Col, it was intentional to make Mitch out to be the “more significant” one in jack’s life.  No, there wasn’t anything gay between them, but they were best friends, and both had relationships with Julie when they were younger.  Julie appears to be the mystery here, but in reality, it’s much more than that, and Mitch is actually the much more important character.

Thanks, Col.  I appreciate your opinion.  I’ll go through the page by page notes next, but probably not in great detail (but I will use them for my corrections, as you found a few things that I somehow had missed).

Thanks, mate!!

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Mr.Ripley  -  September 20th, 2010, 2:24pm
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Dreamscale
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Responses to Col’s first 2 page by page notes:

Do you always only leave one space between action lines and subsequent scene headings in your scripts? – Interesting point.  You know, I’ve heard this before about my scripts as well as others, and I always say that my software should be doing it the right way.  I figured out just recently that the standard format I’ve been using, is not a Spec script format, thus, only a single line between action and SLUGS.    So, you and the others that have questioned this are all correct.  I’m going to convert it into the Spec script format and see how it looks and how many extra pages it runs.

Not sure if you know or not, but "boof" is an actual “word” used in kayaking.

Glad you liked the Bajan names.  They are all taken from published Bajan writers.

Yes, Mitch can do anything…anything at all!

I agree with you about Addinton and Dr. Sandiford’s dialogue exchange containing some repetition.  I’ll fix it up.  However, I don’t agree about Addinton’s Mum stuff being out of place here.

Obviously I agree with you, Col, that a new scene needs to be properly set, and that includes showing exactly who is in the scene, BUT, when using “CONTINUOUS” in the SLUG makes it 100% clear and obvious that the same characters from the last scene are still here in this new scene.  I guess to keep things “correct”, I should make these changes, but I was just trying to make the read easier and better.

The Flashback on page 14 does occurs prior to the one on page 9.

On page 15, I actually just wanted to get Jack out of the hospital bed as quickly as I could.

“island sexy” – Hot-ass island babe with beautiful cans, nice ass, and a smile that will make you melt.

Shauntee rocks!

I had to have Jack meet Mitch where he was, as it wouldn’t make any sense if Mitch came to the hospital, as you now know.  It is something I played around with for awhile, trying to make things as easily acceptable as I could.

The scene with Jack changing clothes was an issue and still is.  I’m not a fan of “CUT TO:” as you know, but I agree something needs to be changed here.  He hasn’t been at the hospital long enough for them to wash his clothes.

Jack recognizes Mitch when he first sees him.  I think it’s more of a way of speaking, with the question mark.  Like it’s been a long time, it’s still hazy, unclear.  Maybe I’ll take the question mark out.

Is “missus” something that Brits wouldn’t say?  Barbados in very British…very proper in many ways, but very laid back in other ways.

Glad you noticed how Glenville repeats things.

HaHa!  My favorite line of the script…”You wanna eat my baby pussy?”  I’ve actually gone into convulsions, laughing about that line.

“Hand Canon” A Pulp Fiction rip right there.” – As much as I love PF, I was not aware, nor did I try and lift it from there.

It’s an actual hospital I used.  Remember, he’s not under any type of security or anything, so people can come and go as they wish.

“Oh fuck! Son of a fuckin' whorebitch cunt!” – Yeah, I know, I was actually wasted when I wrote that line.  It’ll be changed.

Page 38 - Once again my suspicions are raised about this guy...or is that what you want us to do?  Yeah, I want you to be suspicious of him.  Again, by being suspicious, you’re actually being diverted away from the actual situation.

Pg 41 – “The mower somersaults in the air in SLOW MOTION” – YES, Col.  Sorry.  I was wasted again when I wrote this part and just couldn’t help myself.  It may stay, it may go.  We’ll see.

The villa is pretty much “open”.  Jack did have a key, though.  Check it out at http://www.barbadoshomerentals.com/villa-listing/colina-del-mar#.

The line about Tiger is interesting, actually.  Were you aware that he and Elin were married on Barbados?  That’s why it’s in there, as it was a giant event and the locals all remember the day well.

P 44 – “On a table, a mirror with several lines of cocaine and a rolled up $100 bill sit.” – Yeah, I agree…it reads awkwardly.  Consider it changed.

My take on Addinton not “digging” is that he’s happy to get any info from Jack.  The answers you’re seeking, aren’t important to the story, IMO.  I tried to keep things as simple as I needed to.

There’s a back story to Jack and Julie, and I didn’t make it remotely clear…and really didn’t think I needed to.  BUT, Jack has known for awhile that Julie was cheating on him.  His father knew, and Jack even talked with Mitch about it on numerous occasions.  He never discussed ti with Julie though.  After Jimmy’s death, he didn’t discuss much with Julie. Jack knows it was his fault, Jimmy got killed.  He can’t deal with it and never got over it.  He’s a broken man.

Pg 48 - New scene requires character names for clarity, agreed?  Agreed, but refer back to my earlier response.

There are so many different interpretations of dragonfly symbolism.  I did a lot of research and kind of melded a number of things together to come up with what I used.

Page 49 – I don’t find Addinton or Glenville to be stupid or bumbling at all.  Look at all they’ve managed to figure out in a matter of hours!

Yes, the Flashbacks do become increasingly more “convenient”.  No way around that for this to work.  As time goes by and Jack sees more things, it’s only natural for his memory to come back quicker and more exact.

The Flashbacks showing Jack and Julie getting along great were long ago.  His “deep love” is pretty much long gone.  He didn’t plan any revenge…it is hinted that maybe he does take Woodie up on his suggestion, but you know now that didn’t take place.

Pg 54 – The conversation between Addinton & Genville  - Yeah, I agree with you for the most part.  I wasn’t happy with that scene the moment I wrote it, but it seemed to serve a means to an end. I amy get rid of it, the more I think about it.

There’s only so much time to do stuff.  Addinton and Gelnville are going as fast as they can.  Give ‘em a break! Jeez…  HaHa!

I’m not sure why you find the chase scene “bungling” on Glenville’s part.  Glenville’s a good guy, but he’s not used to this sort of stuff.  Barbados in a quiet island for the mot part.  Don’t worry, you know he’s going to come through in the end!

The stuff about not taking the coke, etc, has been brought up by others, early on.  I feel it’s legit.  It’s Addinton’s way of getting Jack to trust him so he’ll work with him as much as he can.  A little bit of blow is the last thing Addy needs to worry about, IMO.
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Dreamscale
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Responses to Col’s 3rd and 4th page by page notes:

Jack’s line – “We gotta find her, man.” – I hear you, Col.  But knowing what you know by the end, does it make more sense?  Sometimes, I feel it’s as effective to throw out a red herring as it is to point the finger right where it should be pointing, but making it seem like a misdirection.

The temple rubbing may indeed get old fast.  I’ll look at how often it actually happens.  I think it’s several times.

Well, I did try and throw in a mother of curve balls, and for it to work, I needed Woodie to play his little games.  Sounds like it didn’t work for you.  I tried…

Pg 59 - A huh. If I were your age... – Good catch!  Thanks!

Addinton is supposed to act and sound like a distinguished English gent indeed.  That one phrase always stood out for me as well, and I’ll definitely change it and keep his character in line with what it is. – Good catch for sure!!!

Pg 63 - “incase” – Another great editing catch!!  Thanks!

Remember, Addy and Glen have SUPER Orlando working behind the scenes.  They’re only human and they’ve actually made a lot of progress if you really stop and think about it.

Yeah, “High Fives” can be very cheesy for sure.  For some strange reason, I seem to like them, though.


We’ve haven’t met these people before, have we? – No, it was brought up in an earlier read and has been corrected.   A few things slipped through, obviously.

I think the Mrs. Harewood scenes will work well and do a lot to show who Addinton really is.  They don’t take up a lot of time, and are both an easy shoot, in a simple hospital room.  You aren’t the sentimental kind, so you say, but I recall lots of sentiment in your scripts, so I think deep down, you just may be more sentimental than you think you are.  Same goes with me.  I may not seem like I am, but I can get pretty emotional, very quickly in a well staged scene in a movie.

Great catch and exactly as I planned it!  Very rarely do we see “native” nudity done in a T & A kind of way.  Funny how that just happened to pop up on page 69, huh?  HAHA!!!

Pg 70 - “Shauntee pulls him inside. – I think you’re right.  I’ll delete 1 of the “pulls him in” lines.  Thanks!

Orlando does rock, doesn’t he?  He’s definitely the go-to guy for the Bridgetown Police!



“ Hmm, having a hard time swallowing this. It’s all, yet again, too convenient and feels too set-up to drive the story along its path.” – Not sure why, Col.  It makes perfect sense to me.   Remember, this is a little Caribbean island where violence and shit just doesn’t occur that often (at least “in the movies”)  Stuff like this happens all the time, I’m sure and doesn’t mean squat 99% of the time. Here, however, it turns out to be a big deal and gets them 1 step closer to solving the mystery.

Good point about the perspective of the Flashbacks, as they’re all Jack’s perspective and it is hard to figure out whether or not his fucked up thought process is coloring them.


“Great names in Kean and Rawle too.”  - Thanks!  I got a kick out of all the cool names as well.

Pg 81 - “Jacks flips onto his back, tries to stand.” – Omit the “s” in “Jacks” -Yep!  Sweet.  Great catch!

Yeah, funny!  Jack can take care of himself, huh?  Max Cady is a great comparison…and Cape Fear was an awesome movie!  

“Waking within a flashback, don’t know if I’ve ever seen that before. An element of “Inception” to a certain degree can be seen in that whether you intended it or not.” – You bring up a great point here.  I’ll have to check it out.  Ryan brought up a great point also, that I had to change about Jack getting knocked out but still remembering what happened while he was under.  Could be the same issue here.  Thanks for spotting this.

We all need a girl like Shauntee!

Good point about eh “double rage” – I’ll change it.

“ What a nonchalant response given the events of the past 24 hours. Is Mitch even real?” – Ha…interesting…very interesting!

The scene with Woodie being killed has gone through a slight metamorphosis.   There is now a line about a gleaming watch on the wrist of the killer, just to make it a bit more clear what’s going down, without giving anything away.

What Jack really knows and doesn’t remember are up for discussion and consideration.  At this point, Jack has completely flipped out though.  He’s wired to the max, drunk, and basically, one fucked up motherfucker, capable of anything.

Keep in mind that Mitch’s rental car is already there, as it had been all night.  He picked Julie up and drove there…so that’s the car that Jack parks next to.  Woodie pulls up after Jack, and is surprised by him.  Does that make sense?

“Its cool how both flashback and present scenes are now melding into one as Jack is at the same location in both timelines. A nice way to fuck with the audience and challenge their level of attention and understanding about what’s going on, trying to distinguish between the two. The lines are welcomingly blurred as we reach the climax, further representing Jack’s frazzled mindset. “ – I was a little worried about this, actually, and still wonder whether or not everyone truly understands exactly what’s going down in real time and what already occurred.  You know there’s a lot of non-astute readers out there!


Pgs 94-95 - Just curious, is Mitch’s & Julie’s conversation meant to be within Jack’s earshot? – Yes, it is.  It’s silent in the gully except for them, so any talking could/would be heard.

“ What kind of a grave do you think he can dig with this rock? He would struggle big time methinks yet two bodies get dumped in there. Not impossible but very very difficult I would imagine.” – This scene went through a few different phases, actually.  Originally, it’s an underground river there, so it keeps filling in with water and mud.  But that didn’t work, so I just went with it.  I need to fix it up a bit, but I really don’t want to dwell on the details here, as I don’t think it would come up in a filmed version – if the ground is soft and muddy, a big flat rock could work, and again, Jack’s not thinking very clearly here.  The bodies would eventually be found pretty easily, as it’s a shallow grave and there are lots of wildlife and foot traffic in the gully.

“Maybe break up this scene with a slug to indicate that some time has passed between him bludgeoning Mitch and placing the stone marker on top. As it’s written, it feels as if the whole event took place in less than 60 seconds.” – I hear you and this was another situation I stressed over.  I’ll relook at it and see what makes the most sense.

“Sorry but I couldn’t help laughing when I read this. It’s reads funny while also conjuring up an amusing image in my head of this lunatic running at an armed cop with a “knife out in front” screaming aahhhh! very schlock horror-ish.” – Yeah, I hear you. I had to throw a little horror element in and I figured why not here.

“Missing “you” between “love” and “honey”. Unless she’s picking a really inappropriate time to confess her deep affection for the preserve.” – Wow, how did that slip by?  GREAT FIND!

“Bit of a cheesy closing line, a bit gushing, they were only Dolphins after all, big woop. I’d excise this dialogue altogether and let the image do the talking.” – There you go again with that sentimentality, Col!  Funny.  I know it’s a bit cheesy, but IMO, it works well for eh ending.

“You bookended it nicely with the montages. Since three fifths of the shots feature Jack and Mitch’s time together are you putting more emphasis on their shattered friendship as opposed to Jack and Julie’s broken union? From reading the script I figured it was more about Jack and Julie, their relationship and how the tragic loss of their son split them apart and culminated in the events featured in the piece.” – A good and interesting point, Col.  I decided to “change it up” with the reveals in the final montage, and make it apparent that Mitch possibly meant more to Jack, than Julie did.  At least in Jack’s fucked up mind. He never knew, or even fathomed to believe that Mitch would mess around with Julie.  To Jack, it was Julie who was fucking up their marriage, even though it was his actions after the death of Jimmy, that really caused everything to spiral out of control.


“As I said, it’s an effective way to conclude matters, I just don’t know if it’s accurately weighted to reflect the themes and overall plotline of the script itself. Maybe an extra scene with Jimmy would even it up at 3 montage clips each, thus providing a more accurate and balanced summation of events.” – I hear you, but I chose not to go that route. Makes perfect sense, though.

Col, again, thanks so much for this detailed review.  You are a great script reader and your insight means so much to me.  Glad you seemed to like it for the most part.

Anything of yours you need some feedback on?  Take care!!!
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Blakkwolfe
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Hey Jeff; I enjoyed this overall. I dug the location in Barbados and how that setting played neatly into the story.

No idea what a Mini Moke is...assume it's a little putt-putt car, popular on the island. Liked the monkeys, the descriptions of the locales-adds a lot to this.

Reminds me most of the Usual Suspects, with two storys running simultaneously on two different linear paths, the flashback tales of Jack, Julie and Mitch, and the current, real time happenings affecting Jack, Addinton and Glenville.

It's a bit confusing to read, the switching back and forth, but I think translated to film it would not be as hard to follow.

My main nitpicks would be these:

Jack. As a character and the main protagonist, I didn't like him. I understand that he was upset about his kid getting whacked by the White Mercedes, and that, as a result of that, got deeper into alchohol and drugs. He starts off being a self-focused, self-absorbed personality and stays that way. He doesn't arc, realize his faults and attempt to address them at all. Rather, quite the opposite as he coldly  kills Addinton and is in return, killed himself.

The friendship aspect of Jack and Mitch played out well, although Jack seems like the sort who would go out his way to be seen playing at the Palms rather than the touristy Luxor...

Got confused about Woodie's role in this, particularly towards the end. I get that he was a dealer, and was gonna whack whom ever it was was messing around with Julie. I didn't get the impression that he was a source of imminent danger. Does he know the truth about Jack, Julie and Mitch? How does he? Did he see them?

Liked the cops, particularly the interaction between Addinton and his mom. The exhange on pg 68 seemed the most "real" in the entire script-very natural and tied in with the supernatural aspect of the story.

Really liked the symbolism of the dragonfly, but it got way overplayed.

The cave scene. Visually, very cool and would look excellent on the screen. However, I don't think it moved the story forward, or at least not to the extent that it would warrant commiting it to film. If the point was to show Jack as a hero in Julie's eyes, he could have accomplished the same thing by slugging a drunk in the bar or squashing a spider...

In terms of genre, it could be argued that this is more a supernatural mystery than a thriller, mainly because it seemed that Jack was never in terrible, terrible danger and that unseen forces were aligned against him. It's a whodunit...even Glenville acknowledges on pg 52. that Julie is "somewhere with the boyfriend and everything's fine." Perhaps more suspense, or clarification that Glenville's premise is not possible.

I liked the ending twist. Admit that I had to go back and reread a bit, but I think that aspect worked very well...

Some of the scenes between Glenville and Shauntee, though fun, could be trimmed as not essential to pushing the plot forward, ex. pg 85, the beach, really only needs to be him picking up the phone on pg. 91.

Regardless, very nice job for seven weeks.


Failure is only the opportunity to begin again more intelligently - Dove Chocolate Wrapper
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Colkurtz8
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Jeff

Glad you were able to get something from the notes whether you agreed with them or not. It will give you something to consider nonetheless.

You didn't like the "The Machinist"? I'm surprised by that, I thought it would be up your street. The fact that you and yours were repulsed by Bale's appearance means it worked. Yes, he was sick to look at but that was inherent to the dehumanizing effect of the film.

It’s like when someone says they hate an actor because he/she always play assholes or just downright unlikeable people. My response is always to the tune of "Well, that's testament to how good of an actor he/she is, the fact that you believe this person is a wanker based on the characters they play. I think Bale deserved a lot of credit for that role while the look and feel of that film has always stuck with me. Now, I can’t say I absolutely loved it but it has a lot going for it too, in my opinion. Maybe check out Brad Anderson’s “Transsiberian” its got killing and snow so you might dig it!

Anyway...

I never knew about the Tiger Woods connection so the reference is justified.

I see what you mean about the flashbacks needing to fill in the blanks but I still stand behind the "too convenient" opinion in some cases.

I’m not familiar first hand with the Woodie characters on those islands for the simple reason that I’ve never been there but I’ve a good idea of that type of person, mainly via TV and the gross stereotyping that goes with it. Also, friends of mine who once holidayed in Jamaica a few years back were more then acquainted with them.

So Woodie’s continual involvement, while providing a good distraction from the main plot and keeping the audience guessing just never sat with me from the moment he was introduced. I get Jack and Julie were going through a hard time, he’s was doing a lot of drugs so his decision making was impaired but it was still incredibly ill-judged of Jack to get tangled up with him like that. And while Woodie wasn’t directly responsible for Julie’s death he was a constant thorn in Jack’s side to which I could generate zero sympathy for. On the contrary, Jack’s stupidity in getting mixed up with Woodie turned me against him in a lot of ways.

Yeah, you can say they made a lot of headway in 24 hours but that was mainly due to the work of other people. For example, Orlando “unsung hero” Andwele!. I suppose Addinton had the distraction of his dying mother and Glenville...well, he wanted to get his rocks off. Regardless, I thought when it came to Mitch they were very lackadaisical but of course it could be no other way since Mitch's true presence needed to be kept a secret till the end and I can appreciate that too.

I mean, the two cops are nice guys, I’m not disputing that, they just need a kick in the ass to get them going, profession-wise. I think maintaining focus and concentration on the job at hand is their biggest flaw. Maybe they should take a leaf outta Orlando’s book…Wait…! I’m seeing a sequel… “The Orland Chronicles: An essay in police procedural efficiency”  Think Nash Bridges meets CHiPS (with Mini Mokes replacing the bikes) told in minimalistic, raw edged documentary style.

I wouldn’t say I hated Shauntee, she just felt a bit superfluous, in there purely for eye candy and titillation, which is fine I guess, its what gets the bums on seats. Although, I don’t agree with you that an R rated film MUST have nudity.

Yeah, I can be sentimental too at times if the scene demands it. I think we all are to varying degrees but I always try to go for understatement where possible...but I don't always succeed. As I said though, I think you steered clear of it for the most part here except in the couple of scenes I mentioned. It's a matter of taste at the end of the day, they will really connect with some while making others cringe, that's the nature of it.

Oh, he’s a ghost, I thought it was one of those “all in his head” kinda things. It culminates in essentially the same thing anyway; to both torment and assist Jack in his quest for the truth about Julie.

So it was your intention to focus more on Mitch and Jack friendship? Ok, that’s cool, I suppose my expectations led me to look for the connection and significant events in Jack and Julie’s relationship. It’s always interesting for a film to offset (intentionally of course) from your pre-conceived notions. For me, there’s nothing more irritating then someone disliking a film solely for it not being what they wanted it to be as opposed to judging it on its own merits and chosen direction.

What are your plans with this now, Jeff? Are you rewriting it and sending it out to people like you did with “Fade To White” or just keeping for the SS boards?

Col.


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Dreamscale
Posted: September 21st, 2010, 10:22am Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the read and comments, T Joe.  Glad you liked it overall, as well as the location.  Barbados is a beautiful place.

Yeah, a Mini Moke is pretty much what you thought.  Just Google it if you want to see a pic.  Basically, it’s a small completely open car, and they’re everywhere on Barbados.

Cool, can’t complain about a comparison with The Usual Suspects now, can I?  I’ve had a few people saying it’s a bit confusing or distracting reading, with all the Flashbacks, but I honestly don’t see any problems in a filmed version.

Nitpicks?  Huh?  You’re not allowed to have any nitpicks!

A few agree with you that they don’t like Jack.  I’ll have to relook at him and see if I took him too far over the deep end.  I’d have to disagree with you about him not going through an arc, though…it may be a simple arc, but he definitely completes what he sets out to do.  Also, he didn’t kill Addinton…he tried, but Addinton lived.

Glad you liked Jack and Mitch’s friendship.  Remember, the Vegas Flashback took place over 10 years ago, and The Palms didn’t open until late 2001…so the bottom line is that The Palms wasn’t there when Jack and Mitch were there on Jack’s Bachelor Party.

A few are also confused with Woodie, which in turn, confuses me.   Woodie’s a simple man, actually.  He’s the kind that can get whatever you want and do whatever you need…all for the right price, of course.  He knows Mitch and Julie were messing around, because he was following Julie, per Jack.  He knows Mitch and Julie met at the gully because he followed them there.  He told Jack about this.  The next day, Micth and Julie are nowhere to be found and the cops are checking everything out…so, Woodie knows something’s up and Jack is involved, but he doesn’t “know” what actually happened at the gully (he most likely ahs a pretty good idea, though).

Sweet!  Glad Addinton and his Mum worked for you.  Also, very happy you liked the dragonfly stuff.  Originally, there were more dragonfly occurrences.  I cut 2 or 3 out before submitting the script.  There are 6 occurrences left, and they’re pretty well spaced out.  The dragonfly only appears once in a Flashback, and it’s right after Mitch is killed. All the other occurrences are in real time.

IMO, the cave scene is one of the big set pieces of the script.  Glad you found it visually pleasing.  From Jack’s first intro, he’s been a beat up mess.  The mystery assumes he was beat up in the same event that resulted in Julie’s disappearance.  That’s not the case, though.  The scene shows what happened to Jack, and how he got to looking like he has the entire script.  It really wasn’t anything at all about making Jack out to be a hero.  It’s more of a stepping stone that lead to the inevitable finale.

Yeah, I’d have to agree with you that this may or may not fall into the thriller genre.  I would disagree though about Jack being in trouble.  The fact that most of the real “trouble” occurred in Flashbacks could be the reason why you didn’t feel suspense.  I don’t know actually.

Great!  Glad the finale twist worked.  It’s really the whole shebang here, and if it doesn’t work, this script doesn’t work

Another one in the anti-Shauntee camp!  Damn!  I don’t like to hear that.

Thanks again, T Joe. This was a very fun and interesting challenge.
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 21st, 2010, 10:56am Report to Moderator
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Col, thanks for checking out my responses.

As to The Machinist, I think I can go so far as to saying I hated it, and have almost no memory of plot and story.  It was ugly, involved ugly characters, and a dull story.  Bale was great, but I have no interest in seeing skin and bone unless I'm watching a horror flick.

What am I going to do with it now that it's done?  It's officially for sale as of right now. I will do a rewrite but I don't foresee many big changes, just some corrections and clarifications.  Let the bidding start at $500,000.

Thanks, Col!
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Colkurtz8
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Jeff

Sorry to divert the discussion away from your own script but I would just like to address some of your points for not liking The Machinist.


Quoted from Dreamscale

As to The Machinist, I think I can go so far as to saying I hated it, and have almost no memory of plot and story.  It was ugly, involved ugly characters, and a dull story.  Bale was great, but I have no interest in seeing skin and bone unless I'm watching a horror flick.


First off, I would consider it a horror or at least contain strong elements of it. Reznik's ailing health and appearance was part of that horror, a physical representation of his tortured soul and warped, disillusioned perspective on everybody and everything around him. As I said in my first post there are some similarities (whether you like it or not) between it and Unforgettable. Namely the amnesia of the main character being triggered by a particular traumatic experience which is revealed at the end plus the presence of an alter ego/ghost/figment (although Ivan is much more antagonist and creepy in The Machinist.)

Plus, I don't see how a film about ugly characters in an ugly world is automatically considered a drawback. Great films are made about undesirable people living in harsh societies all the time. It might not be pretty but can often make for great drama and personal struggle, something we can all relate to on some level. Think of what it would be like if everything had the pristine and plastic beauty of One Tree Hill, Glee or any of those sanitized Jennifer Aniston romantic comedies. Of course, I’m not saying this is what you were implying your post but you get what my point, simply saying a film was bad because the characters and locations were ugly isn’t a very convincing argument in my opinion…and you say you’re a horror fan

Anyway, back on point, best of luck with your rewrite, you’ve done a great job with this.

Col.


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Dreamscale
Posted: September 21st, 2010, 12:15pm Report to Moderator
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Col, I'm not saying that The Machinist is a bad movie.  I know that many people loved it...they just didn't love it based on box office returns.

I'm actually surprised to see it listed as a horror/thriller.  I guess that's why I originally found it on Netflix streaming.  After watching it, I really don't see the horror...or the thriller, either.

Back to my thoughts on it.  I don't necessarily need a movie to be all beautiful for me to like it, and I have no problem with ugly characters, but this one didn't work on any levels for me.  I was bored silly.

Hey, Col, can you PM me with what actually happens in The Machinist.  I just can't remember for the life of me, and I saw it less than 4 weeks ago (that's how much it did for me!).

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Mr.Ripley  -  September 22nd, 2010, 2:57pm
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Electric Dreamer
Posted: September 22nd, 2010, 2:34pm Report to Moderator
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Hello Jeff,

Thanks for the fluid read!
I've only been here a couple weeks, but I'm digging the site lots.

**SPOILERS**

I'm very impressed with the story structure here for a seven week draft.
The Bahamian flavor feels natural, you clearly spent time on it.
The flashbacks are clear and overall concise, I know where I am and when.
Your supporting characters are convincing and genial.

That being said, your main characters are adulterers, murderers or cokeheads.
I was pretty pleased to see them all croak at the hands of each other.
When Jack saw Julie talking to a white guy on the beach, I knew it was Mitch.
Why? Because Mitch is the only other white guy in the story.
I'm 40 minutes ahead of your p. 61 reveal with Mitch's nervous blinking.

Before I continue, I want to relate a couple existing movies here.
One, of course, is "Dragonfly", the Kevin Costner supernatural weepie that I loathe.
The second is an implausible but slick amnesia mystery thriller called, "Shattered".
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102900/  
You may want to check it out.
Why do I bring up "Shattered"? I'll come back to it later.

Mitch is a ghost. Ok. I wonder what Woodie thinks of Jack on p. 23?
Woodie sees Jack shake hands with thin air and talk to himself on the beach. Hmmm.
p. 50 is a big opportunity missed to generate some external conflict with Jack.
Clean Slate Jack learns that Old Jack is tempted to have his wife killed.
Instead of recoiling in horror at the thought, he surpresses juicy plot points.
This is where "Shattered" succeeded in creating tension and this story misses out.
Clean Slate Jack is free from sin but learns he may not be such a nice guy.
Instead of intensifying his search to exonerate himself he goes with the amnesia flow.
This is where I lose total interest in your protagonist. He's a lying dud.
I put down your script down right here for the night, my personal interest drained.
I came back to it again this morning, in the interest of giving a complete review.
  
Jack is getting high instead of investigating the possibility he murdered his wife.
Whether Jack wants to exonerate himself or cover his tracks, this does not work.
He has no sense of self preservation or moral code, I'm pretty much done with him.
Julie is a grieving mother that finds comfort in adultery with their best friend.
The reveal of her death on p. 68 is fine with me, she's anything but sympathetic.
However, this does eliminate one of the last bits of mystery in the story.

You maintain a good pace and scenery once we get to Harrison's Cave.
The Shauntee booty call is cool, but its placement disrupts the third act flow.
p. 91 Woodie, after observing his employer talk to himself, is distracted by a monkey.
He knows this guy has screws loose and he's not ready for him at all. Wow. He's dumb.

Organic discovery through investigation is more interesting than convenient flashbacks.
I think this concept could help tighten up the casual pacing of the first two thirds.
Your third act is well put together and flows much better than the first 60+ pages.
I wanted to be more invested in your story, but I couldn't with such sleazy leads.

Thanks a lot for the read, its quite a feat for seven weeks!


LATEST NEWS

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A list of my scripts can be found here.
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 22nd, 2010, 6:10pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Screen Dreamer, welcome aboard, and thanks for the read.  Much appreciated.

Thanks for the compliments…but it’s set in Barbados, not The Bahamas.

I’m quite surprised that a number of people have said the same thing about the lead characters all being “bad people”, or “adulterers, murderers or cokeheads”.  Yes, there is some adulterous stuff going on, there is murder, and there is cocaine use…maybe abuse, but IMO, that does not make them bad people or even unlikable characters.  You’re not alone here though, so maybe it’s just me, I don’t know.

The fact that Mitch was “the other guy” was not meant to be concealed.  Although I didn’t come out and say or show it, it’s quite obvious it’s going to be him. This was intentional on my part, as I’ve mentioned a few times in response to other posts.  The reason being was to divert attention away from things I was trying to conceal.

I actually really liked the movie Dragonfly.  IMO, it’s an underappreciated flick that was really well done…and quite moving and powerful.  I’ve also seen Shattered several times, but couldn’t really tell you anything about it, other than it’s from the 90’s and has Tom Berrenger in it.

Good point about Woodie seeing Jack and Mitch on the beach on page 23.  I’ll change it so that Woodie doesn’t appear until they’re walking along, so he won’t see anything that is that strange.  Thanks for bringing that up.

The Flashback you’re alluding to on page 50 doesn’t really say anything about Jack being tempted to have Julie killed.  It is meant to install possibilities into the readers mind, though.  Obviously you feel strongly about this, and even stopped reading at this point. You once again mention that Jack is a bad person and because of that, you don’t like him or the script.  I’m very surprised by this.  No matter if Jack is a good person or a bad person, I don’t think he would spill information that makes him look guilty, though, would he?

The story here is very different from what you may have hoped, I see.  Jack doesn’t even consider the possibility that he murdered his wife, and in reality, he didn’t…Julie died accidentally…Jack tried to save her, and in the new draft, it’s more apparent that he did really try and save her (I was a bit rushed for time and didn’t spend the time I should have in that final Flashback).

The “reveal” as you call it on page 68 has already been removed per previous feedback, but IMO, it’s really not a reveal at all.  You can’t (and shouldn’t) trust everything you hear a character say.  Very often, writers use such devices to cover things up by making them seem like red herrings, to the point where you really don’t know whether or not to take it all as gospel.  Know what I’m saying?

I’m also quite surprised and even confused why you say the last bits of mystery have been eliminated by page 68.  As far as I’m concerned, there are plenty of mysteries ahead.  Are you saying that everything played out exactly like you assumed from page 68-104?  I sure hope not, or I really failed here.

Glad you like the cave scenes.  I was looking forward to writing those for weeks, after I constructed the story.  I think they came out pretty well, too, although it is a long Flashback for sure.

Woodie is definitely not the sharpest knife in the drawer but I highly doubt he thought he was in any danger.  Why would he?  If nothing else, he’s got a big knife and he’s the one pushing the buttons and in control, isn’t he?

I’m not big on doing things in a standard way, like everyone else does them.  I tried to make this very different in structure, feel, and flow.  I like a slow build, so I’m definitely guilty as charged in the first ½ - 2/3.  IMO, the payoff is what matters most, and I tend to structure scripts this way.

Sorry this wasn’t for you.  I don’t foresee making the characters out to be saints, though.  They’re all “real people” and real people are flawed.  All the leads here were purposely written to be flawed.  IMO, that doesn’t make them bad people or bad characters.

Thanks again for the great feedback.  I will make that change on page 23 and I appreciate you catching that plot hole.  Let me know when you post a script and I’ll return the favor.

Take care.
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Murphy
Posted: September 22nd, 2010, 7:37pm Report to Moderator
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I usually like to read all the comments before I add mine, but there are a lot of comments to read here and will not have time but jut wanted to add some thoughts while it is still fresh in my mind

Well done for writing a feature in 7 weeks, it was a great effort considering the time constraints. This is the first thing I have read of yours since Fade to White and it is clear that you have used the time to improve your writing as this is a pretty decent script. Your characters were well devopled, I like the fact you gave them a life outside of Jack's world, exactly what I would expect to see in a strongly developed character. The dialogue was fine and moved the story well, even the sub plot with the dying mum was nicely handled and helped the script feel more rounded.

I have only one real criticism of the story and that is how you have handled the flashbacks, don't get me wrong, the flashbacks themselves are fine and do add to the way the story unfolds. It is how you get to then that bothered me, they seem to appear from nowhere with no trigger at all. Jack just seems to be able to remember whatever he wants whenever someone asks him about a location. I think it is a major flaw in the whole script, which really should be about Jack trying to remember things.

Each flashback should be triggered by something sensual, a sound, a smell, a taste etc.. Let them come naturally to him. It just felt so fake having him remember things perfectly whenever he was asked to. Usually this would not be such a big deal but in the case of this script it obviously is an important element.

Apart from that most other things worked well, maybe a few little niggles, Mitch's appearance for one is a bit strange, if he was left for dead 2 days earlier then how on Earth is he walking about seemingly okay? But on the whole very good.

Okay, one thing tried to ruin the script for me! Mitch Cooper, Sounds far too much like "Mitch Connor" from South Park, Cartman's hand puppet who likes to dress up as Jennifer Lopez and masturbate Ben Affleck. One you get that picture in your head of a main character it is not easy to get it back out!

Apart from that, a decent job here and a script that was a good read.

Nice one.    


EDIT:

P.S.

Just seen the above comments, The Machinist is very well written, very engaging and a very well made film.
There is nothing to debate on that one, if you do not agree you are wrong!
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Electric Dreamer
Posted: September 22nd, 2010, 10:17pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Hey Screen Dreamer, welcome aboard, and thanks for the read.  Much appreciated.

Thanks for the compliments…but it’s set in Barbados, not The Bahamas.

I’m quite surprised that a number of people have said the same thing about the lead characters all being “bad people”, or “adulterers, murderers or cokeheads”.  Yes, there is some adulterous stuff going on, there is murder, and there is cocaine use…maybe abuse, but IMO, that does not make them bad people or even unlikable characters.  You’re not alone here though, so maybe it’s just me, I don’t know.


Much thanks for the kind welcome!
Oh damn, did I mention I'm cr*p with geography? My bad.
For me, character investment here is all about Jack.
If I don't care about or have interest in the protagonist, I'm gonna nitpick on others.
No one challenges anyone else's moral code or ethics and I feel it needs to happen.
Julie shouldn't have to see her husband duke it out to want to do the right thing.


Quoted from dreamscale

I’ve also seen Shattered several times, but couldn’t really tell you anything about it, other than it’s from the 90’s and has Tom Berrenger in it.

In the film, Tom Berenger plays a fella that wakes up from a traumatic accident with partial amnesia.
He tries to piece together the events leading up to the accident.
He discovers his life is not what it seems at all. The themes of infidelity are prevalent.

Quoted from dreamscale

Good point about Woodie seeing Jack and Mitch on the beach on page 23.  I’ll change it so that Woodie doesn’t appear until they’re walking along, so he won’t see anything that is that strange.  Thanks for bringing that up.

My pleasure, I wondered to myself what Woodie thought of seeing all that, heh.
That's why later on I thought he was too casual with the meet for payment.


Quoted from dreamscale

You once again mention that Jack is a bad person and because of that, you don’t like him or the script.  I’m very surprised by this.  No matter if Jack is a good person or a bad person, I don’t think he would spill information that makes him look guilty, though, would he?

I do dislike Jack, but I do like many parts of your script.
Jack does not have to spill the beans, but not confiding in his best friend?
Not launching his own private investigation into this behind the police's back?
I do not forgive Jack for that. He never challenges the shady stuff he remembers.
Could I be that bad? Would I do that to my wife? All good unasked questions.


Quoted from dreamscale

You can’t (and shouldn’t) trust everything you hear a character say.  Very often, writers use such devices to cover things up by making them seem like red herrings, to the point where you really don’t know whether or not to take it all as gospel.  Know what I’m saying?

I agree with you here...
However, when a nice old lady on her death bed says something, I tend to believe it.


Quoted from dreamscale

I’m also quite surprised and even confused why you say the last bits of mystery have been eliminated by page 68.  As far as I’m concerned, there are plenty of mysteries ahead.  Are you saying that everything played out exactly like you assumed from page 68-104?  I sure hope not, or I really failed here.

Eeeek! My bad, poorly worded drivel, apologies. I had soup making on the brain.
In my mind, Julie's fate was cemented by that scene, I meant nothing more.
As I said before, I feel your third act here is by far your strongest.


Quoted from dreamscale

Sorry this wasn’t for you.  I don’t foresee making the characters out to be saints, though.  They’re all “real people” and real people are flawed.  All the leads here were purposely written to be flawed.  IMO, that doesn’t make them bad people or bad characters.


Yes, they are real and flawed people. I agree. Saints need not apply.
However, its not the flaw that makes me dislike the leads.
It's the fact that I never see anyone poke anyone else's moral compass until the end.
I guess I wanted Jack to question his own identity a whole lot more than he did.
Thanks again for the read it was a fine time and very educational!

I will be submitting myself for punishment with a writing sample soonish.

Regards,
E.D.


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A list of my scripts can be found here.
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 23rd, 2010, 12:12pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Murph, long time, man.  Welcome back.

I agree, I like to read the comments first also, before I post.  It’s interesting to see what you agree and disagree with.

Thank you, 7 weeks does go fast. For me, it’s not the writing part that’s difficult, it’s the planning stages that take most of the time.  I spent at least 3 weeks planning everything and doing research.

So you’re saying you like this better than Fade to White, huh?  Thanks, but I would disagree.  Fade is my first born though, so you know how that goes…

Cool, glad you liked the characters and see that they’re well developed.  I spent a lot of the planning stage, giving these people a life outside the immediate story.  Glad it showd through for you.

You’re not alone in having issues with the Flashbacks coming too easily.  It’s interesting, as I actually spoke to a medical doctor who deals with amnesia type situations on a regular basis, at the hospital my girlfriend works at.  I used the info I gathered from him and then made it a little more movie friendly, but in reality, the mind can work this way.  It’s really all about the amnesia itself, what caused it, how deep is it, what type of mental capacity does the person have, medical/family history, blah, blah, blah.  I guess I could try and give a little more reason why certain Flashbacks come up at certain moments.  I'll look at it again.

As for Mitch, looks like you may have missed the big twist reveal at the end, Murph.  Mitch was indeed killed right after Julie died, the night before the script proper begins.  Mitch is only in his human form in Flashbacks.

Never seen South Park…and never will.  I hate that kind of shit, actually!  I will not disagree with you about South Park or The Machinist though, because I will be wrong.  

Thanks for the read and feedback, Murph.  Good to see you back on the boards.
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Murphy
Posted: September 23rd, 2010, 4:35pm Report to Moderator
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Dude, he's a ghost? Like Bruce Willis?

Hmmmmm.....

Not sure about that, that made me go back and read the comments. I agree with others, he called Jack, we saw Jack take the call. M. Night to remember Shalallalalalaman pulled it off because it made logical sense when re-watching, and obviously the "I see dead people" line was so pivotal, in fact it turns out the most important piece of dialogue in the entire script, without it the whole movie just falls apart.

So unless you have Jack tell someone he "calls dead people" I think you have got to re-think the whole phone call thing. I think it is actually cheating, which is an awful thing for a screenwriter to do, no grand reveal is ever worth cheating to make a twist work. Why not just have Mitch turn up at the hospital?

I like the idea, It actually could work if you now put some real effort into writing some scenes of Mitch interacting with the real world that on the surface appear normal but with a second read and the knowledge he is dead still make logical sense. In a word, if you want to pull something like this off you are gonna have to do it in a much clever way than you have done here. The price to pay for being ambitious!

I will say however that armed with this knowledge it does actually make more sense of the ending, and I probably like it more know than I did. But the cheating is unforgivable.

Naughty boy!
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 23rd, 2010, 5:27pm Report to Moderator
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Yes, Mr. Murphy, yes.  Now you got it.

There's really only 1 place I need to fix slightly, and Screen Dreamer just found it for me, where Woodie follows Jack and Mitch, but doesn't react to the fact that Jack is shaking hands with thin air (I'll just make Woodie's entrance a little later).

Mitch does not interact with a single character except Jack.  I was very careful to cover all my bases.  What people are getting hung up on are 2 things, basically...Mitch calling Jack on his cell, and Mitch snorting lines and drinking vodka.  I was going to have Mitch just show up at the hospital, but after thinking about all the possibilities, I decided it would be difficult to impossible to get them from the hospital to the beach.  Think about it...

But, check this out...how many times have you seen some old ghost movie where a candelabra or some other object floats across the room?  How many movies have calls been placed from beyond the grave?  Alot, in both cases.  My take on it is this...since ghosts aren't proven to be real, the writer can allow them to do whatever he wants.  In this script, my ghost, Mitch, can manipulate objects, meaning he can make calls show up on Jack's cell, and he can snort fatties and pound down Bellvedere.

There's actually a small change I'm going to make when Mitch snorts the first lines, by himself.  Instead of saying what good shit Jack has, he's going to say something like, "Damn, I miss these days already."

OK, so we cool now?  I'm really surprised that a number of people have missed this big twist reveal, but it's always easier when you already know.

Thanks for the discussion. Let me know if there's anything else you want clarification on.
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Coding Herman
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Hi, Jeff. Sorry for being so late in reviewing your script.

Page 1, is there really a ski hill in the Caribbeans? Oh, okay, so not all scenes in the montage took place in the Caribbeans. I misunderstood it because the previous sky diving and underwater scene.

Page 14, I'm starting to get annoyed by the constant flashbacks, I think this is like the fifth and sixth already. I'll see if those flashbacks lead anywhere.

Page 19, the most logical action is for Mitch going to visit Jack at QEH, so Mitch telling Jack to meet him at someplace else doesn't ring true to me. What's worse is that Jack actually agrees to do so. I mean, hospital is the safest place for him right now, he doesn't remember anything or anywhere, so venturing out all by himself sounds like a stretch to me. You need to find a way that forces Jack to get out of the hospital.

Page 31, the flashback sequence is good. It shows us the relationship between Mitch and Jack. So now let's see if this sequence will affect the story.

Page 34, so Mitch was saying they were being followed (which came out of nowhere by the way), and now he told Jack to just hang around for five minutes? And told him to get back to the bar by himself? Jack doesn't sound like a roughed up guy who lost his memory to me.

Page 46, A GENERAL NOTE, the first 15 pages are good and intriguing as I wanted to find out what's going to happen next. But after 30 pages and almost half way through the script, nothing much seemed to happen in the NOW. Almost all of your story takes place in flashbacks. I started to wonder if your main story should take place during those flashbacks instead.

Another thing is that the story is not thrilling or exciting. More like a drama with a little bit of suspense. All I know so far is that Jack is amnesiac, he doesn't know where his wife is, he goes to meet Mitch, and the police calls Jack back. None of these events are thrilling because there is no complications to each task. Everything happens smoothly.

The most thrilling part, as of now, is during the Las Vegas flashback in the suite. I want more of those scenes. At 46 pages, there should be 4 of those already. So pacing is a problem.

You also need more turning points and hints. We're still left in the dark for half of the script. We knew Julie and Mitch are up to something. That's a given in an amnesic thriller. Up till now, the police and Jack are just investigating without any breakthrough. The good thing, though, is we learned a lot about Jack's life, and hopefully they come into play later on.

Page 55, yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Finally there's some leads to follow.

TO BE CONINTUED....


FEATURE:

Memwipe
- Sci-Fi, Action, Thriller (114 pages) - In a world where memories can be erased by request, a Memory Erasing Specialist desperately searches for the culprit when his wife becomes a target for erasure -- with his former colleagues hot on his trail.
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 24th, 2010, 11:20am Report to Moderator
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Hey Screen Dreamer, just wanted to reply to you again.

There’s definitely no moral code or ethics being challenged here for sure.  But you need to keep in mind that all this stuff takes place in less than 24 hours, not including the Flashbacks, of course.  The shiny new race car has long been broken for Jack and Julie…but that doesn’t mean it can’t be fixed.  This was the entire reason they came back to Barbados.  Julie was not aware Mitch was coming too.  Mitch is the prick here, actually, as he knew damn well they were trying to reconcile things this week, so what does he do?  He flies down to Barbados as well, and makes things much more difficult for Julie and eventually causes everything that went down, through his being there.  If he wasn’t there, none of this bad shit would have gone down.  And also, it’s not Jack’s heroic behavior in the cave that made Julie see the light and want to do the right thing.  It was merely a glimpse back to the man she fell in love with, a man who hasn’t been home for years.

Again, many thanks for reading and engaging in this discussion.  This sort of back and forth is invaluable to me as a writer.  Take care!
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 24th, 2010, 3:33pm Report to Moderator
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Howdy, Herman.  Thanks for getting started on my script.  I appreciate it.

I'll respond to everything after you're done.  Thanks.
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Coding Herman
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Page 62, why does Addinton makes it like arresting Mitch? They don't know what Mitch really did, so it's more logical to have Mitch to provide a statement. So Addinton drawing his gun out doesn't work for me here.

Page 65, this flashback sequence seems out of place. I don't know what causes Jack to remember that sequence while he's having a stomach ache.

Page 80, the cave tour is nice and all, but I think it took too long to get to what you're trying to do. I don't think you need to show both the Cathedral and the Bastille. One is enough, or even better, skip right to the Bath House where the drama begins.

Page 81, I don't get why Jack didn't give all the money to Morris. People in this situation would avoid the conflict, not flaming it. Even if Morris et. al are psychos, Jack would still give up his money first.

Page 99, I want to know what the dragonfly symbolizes.

Page 101, I admit that I was surprised about Mitch. But then that just makes Jack so unlikable, especially what he did to Addinton.

Page 104, I don't get the ending montage, I know it's the same one as the beginning ones, but what's the purpose? Are you implying that Jack and Mitch are gay?


Some general thoughts:

I have mixed feeling about the overall script. I think the main problems are the constant flashbacks and an inactive, unlikable protagonist. By the way, the most active character here is actually Addinton, and I liked him a lot more than Jack, but I doubt Addinton is your intended protagonist.

Save the last 10 pages, Jack didn't do much to find out how he became amnesiac. He followed his imagined Mitch around, remembered something, and this sequence just repeats itself. There is no struggles or obstacles for Jack to overcome, and hence, makes the script kinda flat with little ups and downs. Instead, you gave all the work to Addinton so his character is more interesting to me.

There are waaaaaay too many flashbacks. Some of them are not even needed. I keep on wondering where these flashbacks lead to, and they're not paid off. I think only around 6 to 7 flashbacks are essential to the story and to building the characters. And when a long flashback ends, I had to go back to before the flashback to see where I was.

The Addinton-mother subplot didn't do much either. This subplot keeps popping up once in a while. But again, it's not paid off. Leave me hanging if I've missed something. The only connection I make is the dragonfly, and that's really a stretch.

The pacing is another problem. I couldn't really remember a lot of scenes that stick out to me. The memorable ones are: the Las Vegas suite, the Woodie chase, the attempted rape in the cave, and maybe the last flashback. What's missing is the tension and the stake. I can't feel Jack being very desperate in finding Julie because he's pretty inactive. And since you alluded to Julie being adulterous in the beginning, I could care less whether she lives or not.

For seven weeks, it's a good job. It's still enjoyable, albeit some dull spots here and there.

I'll add more if I think of something.


Herman


FEATURE:

Memwipe
- Sci-Fi, Action, Thriller (114 pages) - In a world where memories can be erased by request, a Memory Erasing Specialist desperately searches for the culprit when his wife becomes a target for erasure -- with his former colleagues hot on his trail.
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 25th, 2010, 5:44pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Herman, thanks so much for reading and giving your thoughts.  Sounds like this one wasn’t for you, and for that, I apologize.

If you look closely, there’s nothing in the script that would make you believe any of the montage scenes are taking place in Barbados, or the Caribbean.

Uh oh, if you’re annoyed on page 14 with the amount of Flashbacks, you’re going to be annoyed throughout the entire script.  I think there are 23 Flashback scenes.  Obviously, this script, like every one of my scripts, does not have a standard structure.  Personally, I’m not big on Flashbacks, so I decided that if I was going to use them (and for this type of story, I needed them), I might as well really use them. IMO, once your mind wraps around the non standard structure, the Flashbacks should be pretty easy to digest.  In a filmed version, I think they’d both be easy to spot and easy to accept.

I’ve responded a few times about why Jack had to meet Mitch, as opposed to Mitch just meeting him at the hospital.  I assume now that you’re read the whole thing, you understand.

Cool, glad you liked the Vegas Flashback.  I realized I needed to add some action and excitement, so Vegas it was.  This scene also contains my favorite line of dialogue, spoken by Alexis…HaHa…funny.

Hopefully, everything that didn’t make sense to you as you read, makes sense now that you know the outcome.  Also, I think you need to keep in mind 2 things when it comes to what a character would and wouldn’t do…first, they’re all characters in a script. Although I try to give everyone a life outside the script, as well as a history, you still have to understand that move characters do things real people wouldn’t all the time.  I hate seeing characters making stupid decisions to move the story forward, and I’ll never go that route.  And 2, you need to keep in mind that there are all sorts of different people out there.  I think you’d be shocked at the things seemingly normal, everyday people do all the time.

Well, you’re definitely right, Herman,  the majority of the first half of the script is spent bringing us up to speed, and that means using Flashbacks.  The entire theme of the script is a story told through Flashbacks.  Some may not appreciate this, but then again, look at Benjamin Button , I’d say over 95% of the movie is told through Flashbacks.  I have created a story that takes place in real time as well, and that drives everything forward.  I’m sorry it’s not working for you.

I apologize you found the story dull and uneventful.  It’s a mystery with action and thriller attributes.  I don’t think it’s boring, though at all.  To me, the exciting and thrilling themes are being planted in the first half.  I do tend to structure my script, based on the kind of movies I like, and those are slow builds that gain momentum until the grand finale. I’d much rather on a high note, than shoot my wad early.  I understand what you’re saying though.

Again, I don’t try to follow cookie cutter templates that tell us where to insert action, how often, etc.  I don’t believe in that generic process.  It’s actually what I dislike most about modern movies…they’re all so predictable, obvious, cliché.  I want to do things differently.

I’m not sure I follow you on needing more turning points, hints, and clues. It’s a mystery.  You need to figure it all out right there alongside the characters.

Cool…so you’re saying you like the Woodie chase?  Don’t worry, there’s more action on the way.  I make a very conscious effort not to throw too much action in…this ain’t no all you can eat buffet…this is a fine dining experience and we serve all action in small portions.  HaHa!!  You know, Herman, IMO, when you come across a good action sequence (I’m not talking about this one, BTW at all), you tend to remember it more if it comes bookended with some down time.  It hits harder to me, and that’s why I write the story this way.  It’s a conscious decision for sure.

OK, to keep it easier to follow, I’ll do like you and respond separately to each post.  So your 2nd and final post will be responded to shortly.

Thanks again, Herman.

Revision History (1 edits)
Mr.Ripley  -  September 27th, 2010, 3:32pm
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Electric Dreamer
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Hey Screen Dreamer, just wanted to reply to you again.

There’s definitely no moral code or ethics being challenged here for sure.  But you need to keep in mind that all this stuff takes place in less than 24 hours, not including the Flashbacks, of course.  The shiny new race car has long been broken for Jack and Julie…but that doesn’t mean it can’t be fixed.  This was the entire reason they came back to Barbados.  Julie was not aware Mitch was coming too.  Mitch is the prick here, actually, as he knew damn well they were trying to reconcile things this week, so what does he do?  He flies down to Barbados as well, and makes things much more difficult for Julie and eventually causes everything that went down, through his being there.  If he wasn’t there, none of this bad shit would have gone down.  And also, it’s not Jack’s heroic behavior in the cave that made Julie see the light and want to do the right thing.  It was merely a glimpse back to the man she fell in love with, a man who hasn’t been home for years.

Again, many thanks for reading and engaging in this discussion.  This sort of back and forth is invaluable to me as a writer.  Take care!


When you say it like that, it all makes sense! I like the banter too!
I hope we can continue soonish when I submit myself for public consternation!

Regards,
E.D.


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Dreamscale
Posted: September 25th, 2010, 7:24pm Report to Moderator
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Page 62 – I’m not sure what you mean here, Herman.  Addy and Glenville were just playing it safe, being professionals.  They didn’t know what to expect.  Super Orlando just let them know that Mitch had been on the island for a number of days, unlike he told Jack.  You know?

Page 65 – Jack didn’t have a stomach ache…he was wasted from pounding vodka (the night before as well).  His Flashback was of him and Mitch together in better days.  It’s also there to show Mitch and Julie interacting for the first time.  It’s 1 page long, so shouldn’t be too big a deal.

Page 80 – Yeah, the cave scene definitely runs pretty long…about 12 pages, I think.  I realize it’s a long scene, but personally, I like it for that.  Sure I could chop out 1 of the rooms, but at that point, it adds to the tension, cause you know something’s gonna go wrong in there.

Again, I don’t think you can make the call about how someone will act in a situation.  I personally wouldn’t just hand over all my money, after forking out $300 already!  That’s who Jack is.  That’s actually why the Vegas Flashback is in there…it shows you early on who Jack and Mitch are. They don’t take shit.

Dragonflies are universal symbols for many different things.  I did some research on them and picked and chose, and made up my own little mythology.  Mrs. Harewood says what they are earlier.

You do understand that Mitch was a ghost throughout the present day action, right?  He was only alive in Flashbacks.

Jack completely lost it in the end. He was high on coke, wasted, upset, enraged…he did try and save Julie, though.

No, I am not implying that Jack and Mitch are gay in any way.  They are best friends.  They shared countless unforgettable moments.  The difference in the end montage from the beginning montage is that now you see it wasn’t Jack and Julie doing all these unforgettable things, it was actually Jack and Mitch.  This was much more their story, than it was Jack and Julie’s story.  Think about it…Julie’s only in a few scenes, and they’re all Flashbacks.

Some general thoughts –Others agree that we’re dealing with an unlikable protag.  It still surprises me that people find him so unlikable.

Addinton and Glenville are are both intended to be main characters…and likable characters.  That’s why they each have a small side plotline running parallel to the main storyline.  I wanted you to worry about Addy in the end.

I’m actually glad you say you like Addy better than Jack…or Mitch.  He’s supposed to be a strong character with mannerisms that you can relate to and see.  IMO, Jack’s not a bad guy at all.  He had some problems in his life.  He didn’t deal with them well.  In the end, based on the events taking place around him, he snapped, went nuts, and killed his best friend, caused his wife to die, attempted to kill Addy, and would’ve killed Glenville.  Up until that moment, I think Jack seems pretty cool.

As per the Flashbacks and the amount of them, it’s just the way I wanted to put this together.  If you open your mind to them, I don’t see how they’re obtrusive or annoying.  They’re all meant to be necessary and forwarding of the story.  They’re character building flashes of the characters.

I’m surprised you didn’t like the Addinton/Mum subplot.  You said you liked Addinton the best, so maybe these scenes had something to do with that.  You know?  Without them, what’s so special about Addy?  I think these scenes give him a life outside of being just another cop.

Sorry you didn’t like the pacing.  I’m surprised you couldn’t recall a number of bigger scenes.  Again, the idea is not to flood the reader with constant action and the like.  IMO, big scenes hit harder when they are fewer and better spaced out.

Well, you’re not alone by saying once a character commits adultery, they are a bad person.  This really surprises me, as well over 50% of spouses have cheated in real life.  Does the act of adultery make someone a bad person?  It doesn’t in my book, but if that’s how you feel, that’s OK, too.

Thanks for reading, Herman.  I appreciate your feedback.  Sorry it didn’t work for you.  It’s been a fun 7WC al the way through.  Glad you joined in.  Take care.
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Grandma Bear
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"Oh well, at least you liked the first 25 pages…that’s a start.  I’m really bummed you didn’t like the next 79 pages.  IMO, the 2nd half is where things really heat up and take off.  I’m surprised you felt the opposite."

I think you misread me there Jeff. I don't think I said I didn't like it. I only pointed out the things that I didn't like or thought could go or need a change.


"Yes, it is a dialogue heavy script, and all my scripts tend to be dialogue heavy.  IMO, this one is much less dialogue heavy than I usually go, but I guess you see it differently.  I’ll be the first to admit that I actually go out of my way to make sure all my dialogue (and action, as well, for that matter) does not always advance the story, or “lead to anything”.  I feel dialogue is a tool to create character, and as long as it takes place in a visually pleasing setting, or is entertaining, then it’s cool.  I know many do not agree."

If that's your style then that's your style. I only told you MHO.

"You’re very easy to understand, Pia!  I hear what you’re saying.  The vast majority of “action” takes place through Flashbacks, so maybe that is giving the affect of being light on action.  There are obviously several set pieces here that are intended to be the big scenes, both in terms of action and passing of information along.  My biggest fear was that this wasn’t going to be “thrilling” enough to be labeled a thriller. The genre of thriller is not my forte, but I’m very happy with this and feel it turned out better than I was even hoping."

I think you did a good job with this script and I think it was mysterious enough to fall into the thriller genre. I also liked the world that you created.

"Again, the issue with the characters likability is an issue that is very polarizing.  I am of the mindset that a character doesn’t have to be likable, to be interesting and engaging, and thus, a good character.   These are intended to be “real” characters, and real people are not without flaw.  Think about it…we’re all flawed and we all have our share of skeletons in our closets.  A mistake here and an indiscretion there do not make someone a horrible person." I said someone was horrible? I loved Hannibal Lector and he certainly was not without his flaws. I have a feeling I was being misunderstood in a lot of the things I commented on...

"Lets’ look at the Vegas Flashback, where you say you first started hating Jack.  Maybe the issue you have here has to do with your being female…I don’t know.  But I do know that if you think it’s shocking that a man would have sex with a “pro” on his Bachelor Party, you’re incorrect.  I’ve probably been to at least 15 bachelor Parties, and I’d say the majority of the time, there was quite a bit of discretionary things going on…not only with the actual Bachelor, but like everyone there.  Same deal with doing coke. For some, it’s just a party thing to do in certain situations…like a bachelor Party in Vegas, for instance.  It’s a lot more common place than you may imagine.  And “stealing” the watches was an issue for you?  It was Mitch who arranged that, first of all, but understand these guys were there to rob them of everything they had.  Mitch and Jack turned the tide and Mitch decided to take something from them as well…for their troubles.  That’s my take on it, at least."

I'm not a moral judge. I can't remember for certain now, but I think it went against how I had first pictured him. And I know what happens at bachelor parties....I've been to them.

"Yes, you are correct, as the script plays out, Jack does do more and more “not so nice things”, and your opinion of his character should change.  Keep in mind that when it’s all said and done, Jack turns out to be far from a great guy, so doesn’t it make sense that his character should be questioned along the way?"

Absolutely, but we start out feeling for him. In the beginning we know that he's the portage. We care about him and as the story goes along he turns out to be bad. That doesn't exactly leaves us with a good feeling. Sort of like we were scammed in the beginning.

"Julie does need a little more backstory and she’s going to get 1 or 2 more Flashbacks that will paint both her and Jack in a more positive light, during the “good times”, early on.  Hope that will help."

That's probably a good idea.

"Yes, Mitch Cooper was a name I used in 1 of those killer games, I think.  He’s supposed to be someone that you question early on.  It’s actually revealed quite early that what he’s saying isn’t all true.  As I mentioned in a PM to you, I see that you somehow missed the entire BIG TWIST REVEAL about Mitch.  Not sure how that could happen, but without it, the story and plot is much smaller, and less enjoyable, so I’ll be interested to see what you have to say now that you know the real deal."

Yes, I did miss the ghost twist and when you told me about it...I didn't like it. Let me know when you rewrite this one and I'll promise to reread it.

"I’m very surprised you didn’t like Addinton’s Mum’s scenes. Many really like them and I agree that it gives his character so much more.  It also ties everything up so nicely, involving the supernatural elements, as well as the big reveal…so…I can’t tell you that I’m going to cut any of their scenes together, and in reality, how many pages does she take up?  3 maybe?"

It just wasn't for me. It made the script drag. Again, these are just my humble little opinions and as I told you, no one should really listen to me anyway. I don't really watch movies anymore. I don't find them that entertaining. I love books. I just can't write prose. Screenplays are the only format I can make myself understandable in.

"Also really surprised you didn’t like Glenville and Shauntee.  My early readers all agree that she was one of their favorite characters.  She’s got a lot of great lines, IMO, and adds some comic relief, as well as some nice sex and nudity.  I also feel that she adds a lot to Glenville’s character as well as some much needed romance."

It was mostly the end scenes with them having their date and sex that bored me. It didn't do anything for the story, but I did like the characters if I remember correctly. Again, I need to be careful how I express myself when I write comments.

Again, let me know when you're done with the rewrite.  


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Coding Herman
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Hey Herman, thanks so much for reading and giving your thoughts.  Sounds like this one wasn’t for you, and for that, I apologize.


I'd say half of the script works for me and half of it doesn't. But it's still enjoyable.


Quoted from Dreamscale
If you look closely, there’s nothing in the script that would make you believe any of the montage scenes are taking place in Barbados, or the Caribbean.


True. That particular ski hill scene didn't say it took place in Barbados, but the previous scene did. So it gave me the illusion that the entire montage, including the sky diving, scuba diving, and skiing took place at the same place. It's not until the church scene that I finally realized this is a series of unrelated events.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Obviously, this script, like every one of my scripts, does not have a standard structure.


But I think your script does have a standard structure, that's how most stories work. You have a setup, a middle, and an ending. It doesn't matter whether they are in chronological order or not.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Personally, I’m not big on Flashbacks, so I decided that if I was going to use them (and for this type of story, I needed them), I might as well really use them. IMO, once your mind wraps around the non standard structure, the Flashbacks should be pretty easy to digest.  In a filmed version, I think they’d both be easy to spot and easy to accept.


I'm not saying the flashbacks are confusing to follow. What I meant is it's just frustrating when your main story is moving along and then we flashed to some incidents that don't relate to what we are doing now.

I don't mind the flashbacks if they add to the current story, like Slumdog Millionaire, each flashback is related to the question Jamal is currently answering.


Quoted from Dreamscale
I’ve responded a few times about why Jack had to meet Mitch, as opposed to Mitch just meeting him at the hospital.  I assume now that you’re read the whole thing, you understand.


I still don't understand why you don't have Mitch go to the hospital even if he's a ghost. Isn't it more logical to have Mitch visit Jack and then they both leave the hospital together? It just rubs me the wrong way that Jack would sneak out of the hospital because of a friend who just got off the plane.


Quoted from Dreamscale
The majority of the first half of the script is spent bringing us up to speed, and that means using Flashbacks.  The entire theme of the script is a story told through Flashbacks.  Some may not appreciate this, but then again, look at Benjamin Button , I’d say over 95% of the movie is told through Flashbacks.  I have created a story that takes place in real time as well, and that drives everything forward.  I’m sorry it’s not working for you.


Once again, I'm just suggesting several flashbacks can be cut out because I think they didn't add much to what we already knew or felt. I forgot how many flashbacks have shown us that Jack and Julie love each other, or alluding that Julie is up to something.

The abundance of flashbacks also made for a very disjointed story. I didn't know which is your A-story, the story I need to pay more attention to. I don't mean to sound harsh, but I did groan several times when I read flashbacks and thought they would lead us to something but found out they don't.

In regards to Benjamin Button, the main story is obviously Ben's life all told in flashbacks. The scenes in the hospital are very few and it's just a device to link between a large gap in time between each flashback. I knew exactly which story I need to focus on.


Quoted from Dreamscale
I apologize you found the story dull and uneventful.  It’s a mystery with action and thriller attributes.  I don’t think it’s boring, though at all.  To me, the exciting and thrilling themes are being planted in the first half.


What I found dull and uneventful is our protagonist, Jack, not doing anything interesting. What you setup in the beginning is whether Jack will find his wife despite his amnesia. But throughout the story, Jack doesn't seem to try to find his wife. He just wanders around with Mitch and talks to Addinton on the phone. I just feel the meat of your story didn't deliver what your promised in the beginning.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Again, I don’t try to follow cookie cutter templates that tell us where to insert action, how often, etc.  I don’t believe in that generic process.  It’s actually what I dislike most about modern movies…they’re all so predictable, obvious, cliché.  I want to do things differently.


Inserting genre-specific action is not generic because that's what makes a story fit in a particular genre. You can't have a horror movie that only delivers the thrill in the last 20 minutes but nothing else before it. Even for the very dramatic The Sixth Sense, there are horror moments throughout.


Quoted from Dreamscale
I’m not sure I follow you on needing more turning points, hints, and clues. It’s a mystery.  You need to figure it all out right there alongside the characters.


And this is related to what I was talking about: inserting genre-specific action throughout the script. And I don't mean gunfight and chase scene. For examples, here are two good turning points: 1) Jack seeing Julie arguing with a white man for the first time, and 2) discovering that Mitch had already been checked in for 3 day instead of 1. They change the course of the story, they change how we perceive the story. These things make the story more interesting.


Quoted from Dreamscale
I make a very conscious effort not to throw too much action in…this ain’t no all you can eat buffet…this is a fine dining experience and we serve all action in small portions.  HaHa!!  You know, Herman, IMO, when you come across a good action sequence (I’m not talking about this one, BTW at all), you tend to remember it more if it comes bookended with some down time.  It hits harder to me, and that’s why I write the story this way.  It’s a conscious decision for sure.


I completely agree with you. I'd feel numb if I get thrills after thrills after thrills. And that's what I thought the main problem is in Ray's script. (Sorry, Ray)

And IMO, there isn't enough thrills to in this thriller. What I mean is, there is no tension. You allude to some tension when Jack remembers that he sent Woodie to kill off Julie and Addinton asks Jack if he remembers anything. But then Addinton just stops probing, and the tension dies. If Addinton did find out about the transaction between Jack and Woodie, then it'll become more tense.


FEATURE:

Memwipe
- Sci-Fi, Action, Thriller (114 pages) - In a world where memories can be erased by request, a Memory Erasing Specialist desperately searches for the culprit when his wife becomes a target for erasure -- with his former colleagues hot on his trail.
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Coding Herman
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Page 62 – I’m not sure what you mean here, Herman.  Addy and Glenville were just playing it safe, being professionals.  They didn’t know what to expect.  Super Orlando just let them know that Mitch had been on the island for a number of days, unlike he told Jack.  You know?


But they're just paying a Mitch a visit. They just wanted to talk to him to see what's going on. They're not arresting him. What if Mitch opens the door and he sees two cops with their guns drawn already? (It's a rhetorical question.) I just think it's pretty premature for the cops to assume that Mitch might be the one who killed Julie. But anyway, it's not a big deal.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Page 65 – Jack didn’t have a stomach ache…he was wasted from pounding vodka (the night before as well).  His Flashback was of him and Mitch together in better days.  It’s also there to show Mitch and Julie interacting for the first time.  It’s 1 page long, so shouldn’t be too big a deal.


It doesn't matter whether he's having a stomach ache or simply wasted, and my problem is not the length or the content of the flashback, my problem is why this flashback here? There's nothing here that refreshes Jack's memory, he and Mitch were just talking about food.

BTW, I was able to accept the fact that memories come back to Jack conveniently because there's always something that triggers it. But here, there's nothing.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Page 80 – Yeah, the cave scene definitely runs pretty long…about 12 pages, I think.  I realize it’s a long scene, but personally, I like it for that.  Sure I could chop out 1 of the rooms, but at that point, it adds to the tension, cause you know something’s gonna go wrong in there.


Maybe it's just me, the tension building went over my head. I thought they were just scenes that show how beautiful the cave is. The tension falls flat, IMO, is because Jack and Julie sounded so hyper about the sceneries.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Again, I don’t think you can make the call about how someone will act in a situation.  I personally wouldn’t just hand over all my money, after forking out $300 already!  That’s who Jack is.  That’s actually why the Vegas Flashback is in there…it shows you early on who Jack and Mitch are. They don’t take shit.


You're deep down in a cave with three guys threatening you for money and you don't know what they're going to do. Isn't the most logical action is to give away all your money and save yourself? But again, it's not a big deal. Jack can still give all the money away and the guys will still attempt to rape Julie.


Quoted from Dreamscale
You do understand that Mitch was a ghost throughout the present day action, right?  He was only alive in Flashbacks.


Yes, I do understand, although I admit I had to re-read that scene again to understand why "Jack looks to where Mitch was standing, but he's alone."

I think the twist did its job and I was surprised, but I'm not sure how it adds to your story of Jack finding Julie.


Quoted from Dreamscale
No, I am not implying that Jack and Mitch are gay in any way.  They are best friends.  They shared countless unforgettable moments.  The difference in the end montage from the beginning montage is that now you see it wasn’t Jack and Julie doing all these unforgettable things, it was actually Jack and Mitch.  This was much more their story, than it was Jack and Julie’s story.  Think about it…Julie’s only in a few scenes, and they’re all Flashbacks.


And this is what I was getting at. If your story is really about Jack and Mitch, then the twist works. But what you setup in the beginning is about Jack's story of finding Julie, so I thought it's always about Jack and Julie. And when Jack keeps on wandering around with Mitch, I was frustrated because Jack was not trying to find his wife.

I don't think it's a good idea to hide what your story is really about. I kinda feel cheated at the end.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Addinton and Glenville are are both intended to be main characters…and likable characters.  That’s why they each have a small side plotline running parallel to the main storyline.  I wanted you to worry about Addy in the end.


If so, why don't you make Addinton your protag?


Quoted from Dreamscale
As per the Flashbacks and the amount of them, it’s just the way I wanted to put this together.  If you open your mind to them, I don’t see how they’re obtrusive or annoying.  They’re all meant to be necessary and forwarding of the story.  They’re character building flashes of the characters.


As I said before, I found them redundant, sometimes showing us the same thing that we already knew. And when they show us something new and move the story along, they're not obtrusive or annoying, they work.


Quoted from Dreamscale
I’m surprised you didn’t like the Addinton/Mum subplot.  You said you liked Addinton the best, so maybe these scenes had something to do with that.  You know?  Without them, what’s so special about Addy?  I think these scenes give him a life outside of being just another cop.


I admit the Addinton/Mum subplot had something to do with my liking for Addinton. This subplot is good at showing Addinton's character and his private life, makes him more human. Unfortunately, Addinton is not the intended protagonist and I shouldn't invest more emotion in him than in Jack. So I was just questioning: why am I treated with this subplot when I should be focusing on Jack?


Quoted from Dreamscale
Sorry you didn’t like the pacing.  I’m surprised you couldn’t recall a number of bigger scenes.  Again, the idea is not to flood the reader with constant action and the like.  IMO, big scenes hit harder when they are fewer and better spaced out.


I couldn't remember the big scenes that happen in the now. I couldn't remember how (and if there's any) Jack goes about to find Julie.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Well, you’re not alone by saying once a character commits adultery, they are a bad person.  This really surprises me, as well over 50% of spouses have cheated in real life.  Does the act of adultery make someone a bad person?  It doesn’t in my book, but if that’s how you feel, that’s OK, too.


No, a character who commits adultery is still a likable person if I understand and relate to his/her decision to cheat. Because there is so few scenes with Julie, I didn't really know her character that well and so I didn't really care about her that much.

But as you said, this is not a story about Julie when I thought it should be by reading your logline, premise, and Act I.

I think it'd be much better if you clearly show us in the beginning what this story is about.


P.S. I think The Machinist is a good movie. It gives me the thrills and I can feel the pain Christian Bale has endured.


FEATURE:

Memwipe
- Sci-Fi, Action, Thriller (114 pages) - In a world where memories can be erased by request, a Memory Erasing Specialist desperately searches for the culprit when his wife becomes a target for erasure -- with his former colleagues hot on his trail.
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George Willson
Posted: September 27th, 2010, 1:40pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


Doctor who? Yes, quite right.

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The page numbers are just references of where I was when these thoughts occurred to me as I read. Maybe they'll be helpful in knowing the context where I'm looking at these. Obviously if something changed later, I'll correct myself.

5 - I had to stop and look up Mini Moke right away since the actions going on and the descriptions confused the heck out of me. Even after figuring it out, I'm confused as to why they rented two of them. Just doesn't make sense to me. You may have to give the Mini Moke a brief description.
8 - Way too textbook a lesson. Need to tone that down a bit
13 - The oh by the way about Addinton's mum came off as forced.

My Plot Prediction at 20 pages: Hit and run driver killed their son sending Julie into a fit of depression. Jack takes her to their honeymoon place to try and rekindle the romance, but unfortunately, she's kindled a new romance somewhere else. Her new beau follows her to the place and Jack discovers the truth about them and kills them.

21 - He's got a snappy new outfit but still looks like a rough night?
26 - I find I nailed a couple points dead on. I should have gotten the guy going depressed as well since fathers who lose sons usually do in these stories. I lose points for not mentioning that.
34 - I'm sure hoping the deal with Addinton's mom rings relevant later. And the foreshadow? Meh, I already figured that out.
44 - Not sure if anyone else pointed this out to you, but clearly you're using a screenwriting program since it word-wrapped you improperly with the "played...yesterday" part of the dialogue. It's not one word, it's two. You should have popped a space in between the ellipsis and "yesterday" so the word wrap would wrap it correctly.
51 - A little misdirection with woodie? Nice try. Too easy.
54 - Hm, option 2 was my guess, but since you out and out stated it, I'm hoping something else happened.
55 - Nice twist with Mitch's being on the island for 3 days
63 - The affair is with Mitch. Jack never saw the guy. He's been there for three days and didn't want Jack to know that. Classic.
65 - That word wrap thing again "conversation...nothing"
70 - The Glenville-Shauntee scene. I know you wanted the rack in there, but we already knew this scene was coming, so it actually has neither plot nor character benefit...so far.
86 - Another Glenville-Shauntee scene. Still contributes nothing to the story.
91 - If they blocked the entrance, how did Jack get in?
91 - Now ask yourself if all that time wasted was worth it to say that Glenville was sexing up Shauntee and couldn't answer his phone. Waiting to see if it's even necessary for him to be there or if he could get the "night off" and no one will care.
93 - Jack exits from a restroom? Really? On the verge of learning the truth and he has to use the restroom? Why?

So at the end of the story, the part I missed was that it was Jack, not Julie who did the depression bit. Everything else was dead on. I knew the entire story from my pause at page 20 to actually write it down, though I obviously picked up on it earlier. I was hoping it was a big surprise since I figured out that Mitch was the lover, but I failed to get (until Mitch went over the edge) that Mitch was not really there. So I actually nailed your plot. How does that make you feel? I was interested a couple of times when you had me thinking that you were going to surprise me (I honestly thought he stashed her body in the caves, but you fooled me), but then you pulled it out and got right back on the original track. You've got to figure out what the audience expects in your story and don't go there. Aim that way, sure, but don't actually follow the path.

Beyond that, the story was decent. You did a good job for the seven weeks. You fleshed out the relationship between Jack, Julie, and Mitch just fine. I did like the ending when you revealed that the adventure was between Jack and Mitch and that Julie came in later to possibly disrupt their friendship. It was a great addition.

I get that the point of Addinton's mother was for foreshadow purposes and to give us the dragonfly picture. Guess what? That image wasn't worth it. Personally, I would cut the entire mother subplot as well as the Glenville-Shauntee encounter you'll tighten this script considerably.

I think it was a good effort, but needs some more work, especially in the department of predictability. If this were someone else's script, I can see you having a field day with it.


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Dreamscale
Posted: September 27th, 2010, 3:27pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Pia, thanks for responding.  Just a couple replies for you.

“I think you misread me there Jeff. I don't think I said I didn't like it. I only pointed out the things that I didn't like or thought could go or need a change.” – I was responding to your comment of “I have to be honest, the script didn't fulfill the promise of the beginning”, in context of you saying you liked the first 25 pages.  Usually, the reverse is true for my scripts, as I tend to backload them.


“I think you did a good job with this script and I think it was mysterious enough to fall into the thriller genre. I also liked the world that you created.” – That’s cool.  Thanks.

“I'm not a moral judge. I can't remember for certain now, but I think it went against how I had first pictured him.”  - That was completely intentional.  Both Jack and Julie come off as very likable characters who are very much in love.  As you proceed, you find that’s not really the case.

That doesn't exactly leaves us with a good feeling. Sort of like we were scammed in the beginning.” – Well, I wouldn’t use the word “scammed”, maybe “fooled into believing…”.

“Yes, I did miss the ghost twist and when you told me about it...I didn't like it.” – Hmmm, I’m still amazed you didn’t get this crucial part of the script.  It’s really what the whole thing hinges on.

OK, Pia, I just wanted to throw those few comments out.  I do appreciate your feedback very much.

Take care.
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 27th, 2010, 5:48pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Herman, thanks for responding back.  Just want to clarify a few things.

“I'd say half of the script works for me and half of it doesn't. But it's still enjoyable.” – OK, the enjoyable part, I like to hear.  But the half of the script working and not working is tough to follow.  What half works for you and what half doesn’t work?

“True. That particular ski hill scene didn't say it took place in Barbados, but the previous scene did. So it gave me the illusion that the entire montage, including the sky diving, scuba diving, and skiing took place at the same place. It's not until the church scene that I finally realized this is a series of unrelated events.” – Actually, not true.  The entire montage does not give any actual geographical locations.  In the “UNDERWATER” Slug, it does mention “Caribbean lobsters”, but that’s it.  Caribbean lobsters are found all over the Caribbean.  There’s nothing in the other montage scenes that mention anything about Barbados or the Caribbean.

“But I think your script does have a standard structure, that's how most stories work. You have a setup, a middle, and an ending. It doesn't matter whether they are in chronological order or not.” – Hmmm, I think we’re on different pages here.  Nothing is out of chronological order (other than a few Flashback scenes).  The story is being told through Jack’s Flashbacks.

“I'm not saying the flashbacks are confusing to follow. What I meant is it's just frustrating when your main story is moving along and then we flashed to some incidents that don't relate to what we are doing now.” – I guess you’re missing the point here, Herman…or at least the point I’m trying to make.  You’re viewing this as 2 separate stories, apparently, and it’s not.  It’s one story, being told in 2 different timelines.  IMO, everything relates to everything here. What you see in the Flashbacks, is what’s driving the events to take place, both in the Flashbacks, and in present time.  Do you see what I’m getting at, or not?

“I still don't understand why you don't have Mitch go to the hospital even if he's a ghost. Isn't it more logical to have Mitch visit Jack and then they both leave the hospital together? It just rubs me the wrong way that Jack would sneak out of the hospital because of a friend who just got off the plane.” – OK, listen, as I stated a few other times in other posts, originally, I wanted Mitch to come to the hospital, but it wouldn’t work.  Here’s why…Jack didn’t have his car.  How would Jack and Mitch travel?  I couldn’t have them in a cab, cause it wouldn’t make sense.  So, how would they feasibly leave the hospital?  They can’t.  That’s why Jack has to leave on his own.  Do you understand what I’m saying?

“The abundance of flashbacks also made for a very disjointed story. I didn't know which is your A-story, the story I need to pay more attention to. I don't mean to sound harsh, but I did groan several times when I read flashbacks and thought they would lead us to something but found out they don't.” – Again, this is all one story, being told in a non standard way.  You need to pay attention to everything, as everything is inter-related.

“In regards to Benjamin Button, the main story is obviously Ben's life all told in flashbacks. The scenes in the hospital are very few and it's just a device to link between a large gap in time between each flashback. I knew exactly which story I need to focus on.” – Understood, but you do understand that in Benjamin Button, the “current story” was of Daisy as an old lady now, and her daughter…it was Daisy’s way of telling her daughter all about Ben.  On could easily argue that every single scene in the present time was not necessary…and it really wasn’t, but then again, we wouldn’t have known what ever happened to Daisy.  Since Daisy was such an important character throughout the story, it’s a great way (and a unique way) of finishing out her storyline as well.

What I found dull and uneventful is our protagonist, Jack, not doing anything interesting. What you setup in the beginning is whether Jack will find his wife despite his amnesia. But throughout the story, Jack doesn't seem to try to find his wife. He just wanders around with Mitch and talks to Addinton on the phone. I just feel the meat of your story didn't deliver what your promised in the beginning.” – But again, the meat of this story is in the Flashbacks.  It’s still the same story, it just took place before the script proper began.  And, again, keep in mind that Jack was found around 8:00AM, and taken to the hospital.  He’s checked out, cleaned up, and then he leaves to meet Mitch.  What would you like him to do?  Go from resort to resort and restaurant to restaurant, asking if anyone’s seen his wife since the last day?  You said earlier that you don’t think Jack should even leave the hospital because he’s too messed up.  The present time “story” takes place in less than 14 hours.

Inserting genre-specific action is not generic because that's what makes a story fit in a particular genre. You can't have a horror movie that only delivers the thrill in the last 20 minutes but nothing else before it. Even for the very dramatic The Sixth Sense, there are horror moments throughout.” – Ah…funny…I completely disagree with you about having a horror movie delivering the thrills late.  “Wolf Creek” is a great example of a very effective horror movie that doesn’t get to the horror until well into the last half.  Also, interesting you mention “The Sixth Sense”, as my script shares common elements and themes with it.

“And this is related to what I was talking about: inserting genre-specific action throughout the script. And I don't mean gunfight and chase scene. For examples, here are two good turning points: 1) Jack seeing Julie arguing with a white man for the first time, and 2) discovering that Mitch had already been checked in for 3 day instead of 1. They change the course of the story, they change how we perceive the story. These things make the story more interesting.” – Jack remembered Julie talking to someone on the beach through a Flashback.  Addinton never told Jack that Mitch had checked in 3days earlier.

“And IMO, there isn't enough thrills to in this thriller. What I mean is, there is no tension. You allude to some tension when Jack remembers that he sent Woodie to kill off Julie and Addinton asks Jack if he remembers anything. But then Addinton just stops probing, and the tension dies. If Addinton did find out about the transaction between Jack and Woodie, then it'll become more tense.” – Well, as I’ve said, this isn’t pure “thriller”. It’s a hybrid, and shares elements of a mystery, and a few other genres as well.  Jack never sent Woodie to kill anyone.

“But they're just paying a Mitch a visit. They just wanted to talk to him to see what's going on. They're not arresting him. What if Mitch opens the door and he sees two cops with their guns drawn already? (It's a rhetorical question.) I just think it's pretty premature for the cops to assume that Mitch might be the one who killed Julie. But anyway, it's not a big deal.” – Actually, you may be surprised how often cops pull their guns to make sure everything’s cool.  As far as I’m concerned, I see absolutely nothing remotely surprising about this.

“It doesn't matter whether he's having a stomach ache or simply wasted, and my problem is not the length or the content of the flashback, my problem is why this flashback here? There's nothing here that refreshes Jack's memory, he and Mitch were just talking about food.” – The Flashback was of Jack and Mitch talking…just like Jack and Mitch were just talking.  Jack already remembered the Vegas trip, so now he is remembering what happened when they got back.  Is it necessary?  Of course, it’s not, but IMO, it’s a fun scene and it’s the first time we see Mitch and Julie together.  We see the relationship all 3 shared together briefly.

“Maybe it's just me, the tension building went over my head. I thought they were just scenes that show how beautiful the cave is. The tension falls flat, IMO, is because Jack and Julie sounded so hyper about the sceneries.” – I don’t follow this at all.  I don’t know why you wouldn’t expect there to be something about to happen with a long Flashback like that.  Since there was a definite payoff for the scene, I think the question is whether or not it’s too long, and I don’t think shaving off a page or so makes a difference.  But, we’re all different.

“You're deep down in a cave with three guys threatening you for money and you don't know what they're going to do. Isn't the most logical action is to give away all your money and save yourself? But again, it's not a big deal. Jack can still give all the money away and the guys will still attempt to rape Julie.” – Herman, what’s logical for you, isn’t necessarily logical for everyone else.  What would you do if you were in Vegas, partying with a friend and 2 prostitutes, and 2 thugs burst into your room?  Would you just sit there and ask what they’re doing in your room?  Would you let them get the upper hand on your and let them rob you?  Or would you jump up, and start throwing blows at them?  Or, would you answer that the question is meaningless because you’d never be in that scenario in the first place?  Either way, everyone reacts differently to different situations.  And again, if I was in either situation, I’d do whatever I possibly could to at least go down swinging.  Some people are hunters, and some are prey.  But, even in the wilds, sometimes the prey fights back, which isn’t what the hunter is expecting.

“Yes, I do understand, although I admit I had to re-read that scene again to understand why "Jack looks to where Mitch was standing, but he's alone." – He’s alone because “Mitch” was never there in the flesh, as he was killed the night before.

“I think the twist did its job and I was surprised, but I'm not sure how it adds to your story of Jack finding Julie.” – Well, I’m glad the twist did its job for you and you were surprised.  Would Jack have found what happened to Julie without Mitch’s “help”?  I don’t think so.

“And this is what I was getting at. If your story is really about Jack and Mitch, then the twist works. But what you setup in the beginning is about Jack's story of finding Julie, so I thought it's always about Jack and Julie. And when Jack keeps on wandering around with Mitch, I was frustrated because Jack was not trying to find his wife.” – Well, I’m not sure what to say to this.  Most setups are set up to surprise…to keep the reader/viewer off guard.  And again, Jack wouldn’t have found Julie without Mitch’s return.

“I don't think it's a good idea to hide what your story is really about. I kinda feel cheated at the end.” – I’m surprised you’d say this.  You must not like any twist endings, then.  Do you feel cheated when you watch a cheap horror movie where the killer’s finally revealed at the end and it makes no sense at all?  I don’t. I may not be too pleased with the reveal, but I know going in what to expect.

“If so, why don't you make Addinton your protag?” – Addinton is a main protag.  He’s not the main star here, obviously and there’s no reason to make him out to be.  The main protag does not have to be a good or likable person.

“I admit the Addinton/Mum subplot had something to do with my liking for Addinton. This subplot is good at showing Addinton's character and his private life, makes him more human. Unfortunately, Addinton is not the intended protagonist and I shouldn't invest more emotion in him than in Jack. So I was just questioning: why am I treated with this subplot when I should be focusing on Jack?” – You should be focusing on everyone and everything.  What many are missing is that Jack is not a bad person.  He made some bad decisions, handled some situations incorrectly, and then, in the end, lost it.  He went nuts…crazy…bonkers.  If he had lived, he would have most likely pleaded insanity, and would most likely get away with it, because he was insane when he started killing.

“I couldn't remember the big scenes that happen in the now. I couldn't remember how (and if there's any) Jack goes about to find Julie.” – The big scenes, other than the ending, are in the Flashbacks.

“No, a character who commits adultery is still a likable person if I understand and relate to his/her decision to cheat. Because there is so few scenes with Julie, I didn't really know her character that well and so I didn't really care about her that much.” – Yes, Julie was a mystery for the most part.  You have to put the pieces together to figure her out.

“But as you said, this is not a story about Julie when I thought it should be by reading your logline, premise, and Act I.” – No, it’s not.

“I think it'd be much better if you clearly show us in the beginning what this story is about.” – That would be a completely different story, then, and a much more generic concept, which I don’t like.

“P.S. I think The Machinist is a good movie. It gives me the thrills and I can feel the pain Christian Bale has endured.” – I thought it was a shockingly slow, dull ride, with zero thrills.  What can I say?  Different strokes, bud.  Different strokes!

Thanks, Herman for playing along.  A good back and forth does wonders for insight.  I appreciate it.  Take care.
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dogglebe
Posted: September 27th, 2010, 7:52pm Report to Moderator
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I haven't finished reading this, but I'm finding a number of things in this that I don't like.

I think this story has way too many flashbacks.  I've seen similar movies and they usually cap the flashbacks at about five or six.  I stopped counting at fifteen.  These flashbacks make the rest of the script disjointed.  Each beginning and end is like a stop sign and they're distracting.

I don't like how Jack left the hospital because his buddy, Mitch, said to do so.  It was too unrealistic for me.  I can appreciate the situation of the disappearing wife, but I don't think anyone would take such advice from his beer buddy.

Some of your dialog appeared on-the-nose.  A great example of this is on page 37:


Quoted Text
               GLENVILLE
The Almond, huh? That place is high class...just
opened three years ago...cream of the crop.


Is Glenville a travel agent?  Because he really sold this place.  He could've just have said "The Almond?"  And followed it up with a WHISTLE.

I understand that the 7WC are rushed and there are problems in doing them; I personally wouldn't want to participate in one, myself.  Given this, I think it's good.  I think that, sometime in the near future, you should do a rewrite of this.

One thing that really bothered me was the opening montage (I forgot to mention this earlier).  The images that you show us are fast going and active, almost extreme.  And you're going to have a slow moving song like 'Unforgettable' playing in the background?  It didn't match up, or work, for me.


Phil
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 28th, 2010, 3:36pm Report to Moderator
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Hey George, thanks so much for the read and comments.  I really appreciate it!

“5 - I had to stop and look up Mini Moke right away since the actions going on and the descriptions confused the heck out of me. Even after figuring it out, I'm confused as to why they rented two of them. Just doesn't make sense to me. You may have to give the Mini Moke a brief description.” – Never even thought about describing them.  IMO, it’s kind of like having to describe what a Lexus SUV looks like.  Hopefully, anyone not familiar with the Moke will look it up online and see exactly what we’re dealing with here.  In a filmed version, it’s perfectly clear, as we’d have visuals.  They rented 2 Mokes, because they have 2 schedules going on, and are staying in a rather remote area, away from cabs and the like.  They’re well to do and the extra cost means nothing to them.

“8 - Way too textbook a lesson. Need to tone that down a bit” – I’m surprised you’d say this.  Others have actually said how much they appreciate the little lesson in amnesia.

“13 - The oh by the way about Addinton's mum came off as forced.” – Someone else also mentioned that, and I guess I’ll have to relook at the scene.

“My Plot Prediction at 20 pages: Hit and run driver killed their son sending Julie into a fit of depression. Jack takes her to their honeymoon place to try and rekindle the romance, but unfortunately, she's kindled a new romance somewhere else. Her new beau follows her to the place and Jack discovers the truth about them and kills them.” – Well, pretty damn good guess here, George…but then again, IMO, it’s easy to throw out guesses, based on characters and setup (and an astute eye for plot).  More on this later when you bring it up again, as I think it’s worth discussing.

“21 - He's got a snappy new outfit but still looks like a rough night?” – His face is all beat up still.

“26 - I find I nailed a couple points dead on. I should have gotten the guy going depressed as well since fathers who lose sons usually do in these stories. I lose points for not mentioning that.” – Yes, you did.

“34 - I'm sure hoping the deal with Addinton's mom rings relevant later. And the foreshadow? Meh, I already figured that out.” – As far as I’m concerned, Addy’s Mum has a number of important roles here.  First of all, to flesh out Addy, himself and give him a life outside the cop, and secondly, she ties things together with the dragonflies and supernatural elements.  You figured out the foreshadowing?  I don’t think you did, actually…more on that later.

“44 - Not sure if anyone else pointed this out to you, but clearly you're using a screenwriting program since it word-wrapped you improperly with the "played...yesterday" part of the dialogue. It's not one word, it's two. You should have popped a space in between the ellipsis and "yesterday" so the word wrap would wrap it correctly.” – Not sure exactly what you mean here, George.  I’ll have to look at the actual PDF to see what’s happening.  I don’t want a space between an ellipses, though…that’s not how they work.

“51 - A little misdirection with woodie? Nice try. Too easy.” – Yeah, I think this type of story needs some potential misdirection.  In a way, I look at this kind of thing as a potential red herring when something seems so obvious, it can’t be true…but then again, maybe it is?

“54 - Hm, option 2 was my guess, but since you out and out stated it, I'm hoping something else happened.” – Another red herring…sort of…

“55 - Nice twist with Mitch's being on the island for 3 days” – Yes, the plot thickens.

“63 - The affair is with Mitch. Jack never saw the guy. He's been there for three days and didn't want Jack to know that. Classic.” – Yeah, I really didn’t try to hide the fact that Mitch is the other guy.  By not hiding it, I was actually trying to draw attention away from the true twist.

“65 - That word wrap thing again "conversation...nothing" – Yeah, I’ll check it out.

“70 - The Glenville-Shauntee scene. I know you wanted the rack in there, but we already knew this scene was coming, so it actually has neither plot nor character benefit...so far.” – Many agree with you here, George, but no way do I.  IMO, an R rated movie should provide some good T & A, if at all possible.  Almost like a good horror movie should provide some good graphic violence.  Also, it does come into play in the end.  I think each T & A scene here is well conceived and done.  They offer some stuff you don’t get to see very often in mainstream movies.

“86 - Another Glenville-Shauntee scene. Still contributes nothing to the story.” – Well, actually, it does.  If Glenville wasn’t with her, he’d be with Addy, and things would have played out very differently in the finale.

“91 - If they blocked the entrance, how did Jack get in?” – Jack got there before the entrance was blocked…and before Woodie, as well.

“91 - Now ask yourself if all that time wasted was worth it to say that Glenville was sexing up Shauntee and couldn't answer his phone. Waiting to see if it's even necessary for him to be there or if he could get the "night off" and no one will care.” – Again, IMO, the Glenville/Shawntee scenes are first all cool scenes. She’s funny.  She’s hot. She’s nude…you don’t get to see hot-ass island girls nude very often, now do you?  And again, yeah, it totally changes how things play out in the finale.

“93 - Jack exits from a restroom? Really? On the verge of learning the truth and he has to use the restroom? Why?” – Well, I don’t think the question is why did he have to use the restroom…more like, why did he go into the restroom?  He had to wash his hands after killing Woodie, as there was blood all over him.  It’s also a way of not revealing who killed Woodie immediately…keeps you guessing.  Know what I’m saying?

“So at the end of the story, the part I missed was that it was Jack, not Julie who did the depression bit. Everything else was dead on. I knew the entire story from my pause at page 20 to actually write it down, though I obviously picked up on it earlier. I was hoping it was a big surprise since I figured out that Mitch was the lover, but I failed to get (until Mitch went over the edge) that Mitch was not really there. So I actually nailed your plot. How does that make you feel? I was interested a couple of times when you had me thinking that you were going to surprise me (I honestly thought he stashed her body in the caves, but you fooled me), but then you pulled it out and got right back on the original track. You've got to figure out what the audience expects in your story and don't go there. Aim that way, sure, but don't actually follow the path.” – Hmmm, lots to say here.  The question, “how does that make you feel?”, actually sounds like a jab of some kind.  So, let’s check it out….How do I feel about you saying you had it all figured out by page 20?  I feel good, actually, cause what you figured out was exactly what I led you to figure out.  You didn’t figure out what the real twist was (Mitch being a ghost).  Nor could you have figured out how and why everything went down the way it did.  Let’s be serious here…in a script/movie like this, with a “who done it” type element, the answer is usually quite simple…it’s a main character, and here our choices are Jack, Mitch, or Woodie. It wouldn’t make much sense if one of the cops was involved, or Shawntee, or any of the other fringe characters.  As things develop and information is revealed, it becomes easier and easier to make a prediction.  Take any of the 15,000 slasher type “who done its”…it’s going to be one of the main group of characters, and as they die one by one, you’re left with a thinning group of usual suspects.  To me, it’s more important to figure out why whoever is the killer, is killing.  And usually, it makes no sense when it’s all revealed.  Also, keep in mind that Jack didn’t actually kill Julie.  I’ve already rewritten the finale (slightly) so that it’s very clear that Jack tried to save her from falling with everything he has.  The big twist/reveal here, however, is that Mitch was killed by Jack, and his presence in the current time scenes is actually his ghost, back from the dead, to make sure that Jack, his best friend, doesn’t get away with it.  So, IMO, I went a completely different direction than what any audience would expect.

“Beyond that, the story was decent. You did a good job for the seven weeks. You fleshed out the relationship between Jack, Julie, and Mitch just fine. I did like the ending when you revealed that the adventure was between Jack and Mitch and that Julie came in later to possibly disrupt their friendship. It was a great addition.” – Cool, glad you understand the meaning of the final montage, and that it was really a story of Jack and Mitch (which again, isn’t what any audience would be thinking throughout).  I don’t want to imply that Julie was disrupting anything between them, because she didn’t.  Jack and Mitch routinely went on trips together, and Julie was cool with that.  She wasn’t in to the stuff that Jack and Mitch were.  She didn’t ski, she didn’t golf, she didn’t kayak, etc.  She wasn’t a sports person, but knowing that Jack was, she was cool with it.

“I get that the point of Addinton's mother was for foreshadow purposes and to give us the dragonfly picture. Guess what? That image wasn't worth it. Personally, I would cut the entire mother subplot as well as the Glenville-Shauntee encounter you'll tighten this script considerably.” – A few others are in agreement with you here, but I definitely am not.  Both Mrs. Harewood and Shawntee give the cops “character”.  They make them real people with lives outside of just being generic cops.  Without those scenes, what would you think of Addy and Glenville?  Probably, not much, because all they’d be is cops.

“I think it was a good effort, but needs some more work, especially in the department of predictability. If this were someone else's script, I can see you having a field day with it.” – Well, I’ve discussed the predictability element at length above.  Hopefully you see what I’m saying and are in agreement…maybe not…we’ll see what you have to say.  Also, if this was someone else’s script, I’d be impressed, cause I highly doubt I would have been able to figure out what went down, why, and how.  All my T’s are crossed, and all my I’s are dotted.  I tried hard to connect everything and provide closure for all the major characters.  Why do you say I’d have a field day with the script if it were someone else’s?

Thanks so much for your thoughts, George.  I look up to you as one of a handful of resident screenwriting experts, in terms of your knowledge and formatting expertise.

Take care.
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 28th, 2010, 3:46pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for getting started, Phil.  I don’t think you’ve ever read an entire script from me…hopefully you will be able to finish this one and let me know your thoughts.

“I haven't finished reading this, but I'm finding a number of things in this that I don't like.” - Uh oh…that’s not what I like to hear!

“I think this story has way too many flashbacks.  I've seen similar movies and they usually cap the flashbacks at about five or six.  I stopped counting at fifteen.  These flashbacks make the rest of the script disjointed.  Each beginning and end is like a stop sign and they're distracting.” – We;;, yeah, there are a shitload of Flashbacks here…23 in all, I think.  It’s one story, told on 2 different timelines.

“I don't like how Jack left the hospital because his buddy, Mitch, said to do so.  It was too unrealistic for me.  I can appreciate the situation of the disappearing wife, but I don't think anyone would take such advice from his beer buddy.” – You’re not alone here, but hopefully, when you finish, you’ll understand why it goes down the way it does here.  BTW, Mitch is much more than just a “beer buddy”.  They are best friends and have quite a history together.

Some of your dialog appeared on-the-nose.  A great example of this is on page 37:  Is Glenville a travel agent?  Because he really sold this place.  He could've just have said "The Almond?"  And followed it up with a WHISTLE.” – Well, I see what you’re saying. But does it really matter?  It’s 3 lines of dialogue that could be chopped to 1.

“I understand that the 7WC are rushed and there are problems in doing them; I personally wouldn't want to participate in one, myself.  Given this, I think it's good.  I think that, sometime in the near future, you should do a rewrite of this.” – Thanks.  Yeah, it’s tough…it goes fast and the added pressure of writing on a genre and theme you don’t choose, makes it even more difficult.  I’ve just about gotten the rewrite done.  Nothing to major, just a few fixes here and there.

“One thing that really bothered me was the opening montage (I forgot to mention this earlier).  The images that you show us are fast going and active, almost extreme.  And you're going to have a slow moving song like 'Unforgettable' playing in the background?  It didn't match up, or work, for me.” -  hear what you’re saying, but I really don’t agree at all. In my head, I can totally see this working very well.  I think the slow song works well with the “fast” action.  But maybe that’s just me…or maybe it’s just you?  Who knows.

Anyway, thanks, Phil.  I hope you continue and give me the rest of your thoughts.

Take care.
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George Willson
Posted: September 28th, 2010, 7:19pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Hey George, thanks so much for the read and comments.  I really appreciate it!


You're welcome. Anytime.


Quoted from Dreamscale
They rented 2 Mokes, because they have 2 schedules going on, and are staying in a rather remote area, away from cabs and the like.  They’re well to do and the extra cost means nothing to them.


The idea that people on their honeymoon would have two different schedules is really, really bizarre to me. As they are now, I get it, but on their honeymoon? Who books a honeymoon and then plan to go their separate ways once there? On my honeymoon, my wife and I went everywhere together. Heck, we go everywhere together on our vacations too. The thought of "I want to go over here, and you won't" never even occurred to us.


Quoted from Dreamscale
“8 - Way too textbook a lesson. Need to tone that down a bit” – I’m surprised you’d say this.  Others have actually said how much they appreciate the little lesson in amnesia.


The information isn't the problem here. It's the delivery. He sounds like he's reading the info out of an encyclopedia. By "tone it down," I mean that you need to tone down the bookishness of the explanation. Find a more natural way to say the same thing. If you say these lines out loud a few times, you'll probably naturally find how they would best be spoken.


Quoted from Dreamscale
“13 - The oh by the way about Addinton's mum came off as forced.” – Someone else also mentioned that, and I guess I’ll have to relook at the scene.


Well, it comes out of no where, and just reeks of exposition.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Well, pretty damn good guess here, George…but then again, IMO, it’s easy to throw out guesses, based on characters and setup (and an astute eye for plot).  More on this later when you bring it up again, as I think it’s worth discussing.


Yeah, my wife hates me for doing this during movies.


Quoted from Dreamscale
“34 - I'm sure hoping the deal with Addinton's mom rings relevant later. And the foreshadow? Meh, I already figured that out.” – As far as I’m concerned, Addy’s Mum has a number of important roles here.  First of all, to flesh out Addy, himself and give him a life outside the cop, and secondly, she ties things together with the dragonflies and supernatural elements.  You figured out the foreshadowing?  I don’t think you did, actually…more on that later.


I'm all for giving the cops character. I have no issues with that. I just think it's way too much for one minor character to get fleshed out when it could be mentioned briefly. And the foreshadowing I picked up on was that Julie was dead.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Not sure exactly what you mean here, George.  I’ll have to look at the actual PDF to see what’s happening.  I don’t want a space between an ellipses, though…that’s not how they work.


I know that's not how ellipses work. But consider its appearance on paper. If the ellipsis were on a single line, there would be no space. But it's long enough to wrap to the next line and just looks wrong. The recommendation of a space was simply to trick out the program to do what one would naturally do on a typewriter.


Quoted from Dreamscale
“51 - A little misdirection with woodie? Nice try. Too easy.” – Yeah, I think this type of story needs some potential misdirection.  In a way, I look at this kind of thing as a potential red herring when something seems so obvious, it can’t be true…but then again, maybe it is?


Yes, it needs misdirection, but you'll have to remember that I worked out your plot from your first act. By this point, I was anticipating your story beats and the appearance of a seedy character who turns out to be very threatening is a classic red herring. In a whodunit, the one who did it is always introduced very, very early on but as someone completely harmless. In this type of story, it is usually the person who lost their memory. Therefore, I ignored your red herrings, but kept them in mind hoping that you went some other road.


Quoted from Dreamscale
“54 - Hm, option 2 was my guess, but since you out and out stated it, I'm hoping something else happened.” – Another red herring…sort of…


Not really.


Quoted from Dreamscale
“55 - Nice twist with Mitch's being on the island for 3 days” – Yes, the plot thickens.


No doubt. I did like that.


Quoted from Dreamscale
“63 - The affair is with Mitch. Jack never saw the guy. He's been there for three days and didn't want Jack to know that. Classic.” – Yeah, I really didn’t try to hide the fact that Mitch is the other guy.  By not hiding it, I was actually trying to draw attention away from the true twist.


I will admit that this did make me think that I was wrong about my assertion in the beginning. I figured him for killing them both, and suddenly, the other guy is still alive.


Quoted from Dreamscale
“70 - The Glenville-Shauntee scene. – Many agree with you here, George, but no way do I.  


I kept this scene in mind as it all played out, and while it provides the delay for Glenville to reach the end, their actual conversation and activities are throwaway for the reason I mentioned: we already knew about it. It doesn't add to the character because nothing happens here we can't imagine better on our own. And it doesn't benefit the overall plot. Now don't misunderstand me. This piece of the story benefits the overall plot because he misses his phone call later. However, seeing it play out adds nothing. I would personally have a 10 second scene giving us the gist of the encounter and then cut away. It doesn't warrant all the time you gave it.


Quoted from Dreamscale
“91 - If they blocked the entrance, how did Jack get in?” – Jack got there before the entrance was blocked…and before Woodie, as well.


That's fair given how it eventually played out.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Again, IMO, the Glenville/Shawntee scenes are first all cool scenes. She’s funny.  She’s hot. She’s nude…you don’t get to see hot-ass island girls nude very often, now do you?  And again, yeah, it totally changes how things play out in the finale.


I guess this is just a difference of opinion. I feel that every scene should contribute to the plot and/or character in some way. These scenes are akin to a character telling us they must use the restroom, the camera following him into the restroom, watching him pee, washing his hands and then strolling back. If a character has to use he restroom, we're all familiar enough with the process that we don't need to see it to get it. When Glenville and Shauntee talk about his "civic duty," I'm sure few missed what was going to happen. A quick view of a portion of these scenes, and we get it. I believe that if you're going to have your nude/sex shots, they need to serve a purpose beyond just "being cool."


Quoted from Dreamscale
Well, I don’t think the question is why did he have to use the restroom…more like, why did he go into the restroom?  


True, this made more sense later. I'm not one to talk about strange actions that explained later.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Hmmm, lots to say here.  The question, “how does that make you feel?”, actually sounds like a jab of some kind.


Not a jab. Just a question. Nothing I say is meant to be personal.


Quoted from Dreamscale
So, let’s check it out….How do I feel about you saying you had it all figured out by page 20?  I feel good, actually, cause what you figured out was exactly what I led you to figure out.  You didn’t figure out what the real twist was (Mitch being a ghost).  Nor could you have figured out how and why everything went down the way it did...  So, IMO, I went a completely different direction than what any audience would expect.


"He raises the shaft over his head, ready to swing." You can only say he didn't kill Julie because the ground gave way before his swing came down. He was going to kill her. He had the intent. To give him a measure of heroism there at the end by trying to save her doesn't change that.

And to say it goes a completely different direction...I kind of disagree. Did I get your "real" twist? No. You hid that one well within a near completely cliche plot. However, I've seen it done before. When I got your twist, I wasn't shocked or reeled by it because it just moved it into a more psychological category instead of just a standard thriller. I figured Mitch was a mental projection created by Jack himself as opposed to any kind of ghost. Thing is, it didn't matter. I got it and just said, "oh that." It didn't surprise me. I just didn't catch that one ahead of time.

And I have no problem at all when the killer is someone you don't expect. Someone with minimal screen time. In most cop dramas, the one who did it is a witness they interview within the first 10 minutes and we don't see them again until the last 5.

I am also well aware of the formulaic slasher. I make every effort to avoid said formula myself. Even my stereotypical slasher uses someone that seems to be completely outside the circle as the ultimate killer. She's obvious, but she's not formula. I think it's ok to setup a stereotypical plot, but I also think that it's our responsibility to think that plot out and avoid all the obvious avenues. Imagine the possibilities if Julie was killed in the cave, which is where she had been the whole time. Then Jack still kills Mitch himself but is actually innocent of Julie's death along with feeling the remorse of it all. I doubt anyone would expect that. That's not a suggestion. Just a random thought as I consider taking a plot off the beaten path.


Quoted from Dreamscale
“Beyond that, the story was decent. You did a good job for the seven weeks. You fleshed out the relationship between Jack, Julie, and Mitch just fine. I did like the ending when you revealed that the adventure was between Jack and Mitch and that Julie came in later to possibly disrupt their friendship. It was a great addition.” – Cool, glad you understand the meaning of the final montage, and that it was really a story of Jack and Mitch (which again, isn’t what any audience would be thinking throughout).  I don’t want to imply that Julie was disrupting anything between them, because she didn’t.  Jack and Mitch routinely went on trips together, and Julie was cool with that.  She wasn’t in to the stuff that Jack and Mitch were.  She didn’t ski, she didn’t golf, she didn’t kayak, etc.  She wasn’t a sports person, but knowing that Jack was, she was cool with it.


It's hard not to draw that conclusion, actually. You see the relationship these two men had and then throw the woman into the mix. When you find they did all this other stuff and Julie wasn't part of it, she feels like a disruption. In fact, it feels like Mitch tried to ruin their relationship so he could get his real friend back.


Quoted from Dreamscale
“I get that the point of Addinton's mother was for foreshadow purposes and to give us the dragonfly picture. Guess what? That image wasn't worth it. Personally, I would cut the entire mother subplot as well as the Glenville-Shauntee encounter you'll tighten this script considerably.” – A few others are in agreement with you here, but I definitely am not.  Both Mrs. Harewood and Shawntee give the cops “character”.  They make them real people with lives outside of just being generic cops.  Without those scenes, what would you think of Addy and Glenville?  Probably, not much, because all they’d be is cops.


The character part is fine, but you can give them character without giving them so much screen time. It doesn't take much to build character. They need a voice and a life outside of the plot. Easiest way to do this is give them something that happened before the story began and something to look forward to after the story is over. This can be accomplished in a few lines of dialogue. Addison can still have his mother issue. That is also fine. But it just doesn't need the time. I've already stated my feelings on the Glenville scene.


Quoted from Dreamscale
“I think it was a good effort, but needs some more work, especially in the department of predictability. If this were someone else's script, I can see you having a field day with it.” – Well, I’ve discussed the predictability element at length above.  Hopefully you see what I’m saying and are in agreement…maybe not…we’ll see what you have to say.  Also, if this was someone else’s script, I’d be impressed, cause I highly doubt I would have been able to figure out what went down, why, and how.  All my T’s are crossed, and all my I’s are dotted.  I tried hard to connect everything and provide closure for all the major characters.  Why do you say I’d have a field day with the script if it were someone else’s?


Well, maybe you wouldn't. My biggest issue is that it is very predictable. You hint at going other way but you never do. I could just imagine your being rather vocal about that, but perhaps not. Not a biggie.

I think it would make a nice little flick if someone just wants a basic thriller, but I can't see it as something that would draw attention away from anything else. Now, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. Those types of movies are made all the time. People like them. They are comfortable with them. I was just hoping for more.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I liked the juxtaposition of the slow song with the action shots in the intro.


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Dreamscale
Posted: September 28th, 2010, 8:07pm Report to Moderator
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George, just a couple more things…

“The idea that people on their honeymoon would have two different schedules is really, really bizarre to me.” – Well, the two schedules had to do with this trip, obviously…but…when they were here 10 years ago on their Honeymoon, Jack already knew Julie wouldn’t be golfing, wouldn’t be SCUBA diving, etc.  I guess I’d look at it like everyday life…each person has their own means of transportation.

“The information isn't the problem here. It's the delivery. He sounds like he's reading the info out of an encyclopedia.” – OK, I’ll relook at it, but I have spoken those lines numerous times, and to me, they sound fine.  They are coming from a doctor…

I'm all for giving the cops character. I have no issues with that. I just think it's way too much for one minor character to get fleshed out when it could be mentioned briefly. And the foreshadowing I picked up on was that Julie was dead.” – The foreshadowing of Julie’s demise has been changed already in the rewrite, but I’m not going to cut any Mrs. Harewood or Shawntee scenes

I kept this scene in mind as it all played out, and while it provides the delay for Glenville to reach the end, their actual conversation and activities are throwaway for the reason I mentioned: we already knew about it…” – I am not in the school that believe everything has to move the story/plot forward, etc.  If a scene provides entertainment, etc, I’m all for it.

I guess this is just a difference of opinion. I feel that every scene should contribute to the plot and/or character in some way.” – Yep, agreed.  As I just said, if a scene provides entertainment (in whatever form, even gratuitous violence or gratuitous sex/nudity…I’m all over it and all for it!

"He raises the shaft over his head, ready to swing." You can only say he didn't kill Julie because the ground gave way before his swing came down. He was going to kill her. He had the intent. To give him a measure of heroism there at the end by trying to save her doesn't change that.” – That scene has been changed slightly to show Jack started to come around and realize what the Hell he was doing.  In the rewrite, he m,akes a good effort to save her and he doesn’t raise the shaft at her.

“And to say it goes a completely different direction...I kind of disagree….” – OK, I guess we just see things a bit differently here.  IMO, this “simple and/or cliché plot” isn’t so simple or cliché, based on the structure, the twist, and the way everything went down.

“And I have no problem at all when the killer is someone you don't expect. Someone with minimal screen time.” – I hate those type of scripts/movies.  IMO, it’s a very weak way to keep the mystery going.

“It's hard not to draw that conclusion, actually. You see the relationship these two men had and then throw the woman into the mix. When you find they did all this other stuff and Julie wasn't part of it, she feels like a disruption. In fact, it feels like Mitch tried to ruin their relationship so he could get his real friend back.” – Makes sense.  All three were great friends though, and I’m not sure if you caught it or not, but Mitch dated Julie before Jack did.

“The character part is fine, but you can give them character without giving them so much screen time. It doesn't take much to build character. They need a voice and a life outside of the plot. Easiest way to do this is give them something that happened before the story began and something to look forward to after the story is over. This can be accomplished in a few lines of dialogue.” – Well, sure you can, but that’s not very visually stimulating or moving.  IMO, showing fringe characters interacting with main characters gives everything a much more “real” feel.  I also feel that the reason people like Addy and Glenville is because they actually have a life outside of just being cops.

“Well, maybe you wouldn't. My biggest issue is that it is very predictable. You hint at going other way but you never do. I could just imagine your being rather vocal about that, but perhaps not. Not a biggie.” – George, you are the only person of over 50 readers who thought it was predictable in any way.  I can live with that.

“I think it would make a nice little flick if someone just wants a basic thriller, but I can't see it as something that would draw attention away from anything else. Now, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. Those types of movies are made all the time. People like them. They are comfortable with them. I was just hoping for more.” – Well, I tried to deliver more, apparently it just didn’t come off that way to you.  All we can do is try…

“Oh, and for what it's worth, I liked the juxtaposition of the slow song with the action shots in the intro.” – Sweet!  Me too.

Thanks again.
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c m hall
Posted: September 28th, 2010, 8:49pm Report to Moderator
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"The Glenville-Shauntee scene. I know you wanted the rack in there, but we already knew this scene was coming, so it actually has neither plot nor character benefit...so far.”  quote George Wilson

For me the scenes between the young couple were just another example of the seductive lushness of the place -- there are delights around every corner, it takes a sort of warped determination for Jack to be miserable in such a place.  
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 29th, 2010, 10:25am Report to Moderator
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Thanks, Catherine.  Yes, beauty and pleasure are available in abundance on the island.  But so are evil and death....

BWOOOHAHA!!!!!!
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jwent6688
Posted: October 12th, 2010, 1:24pm Report to Moderator
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Jeff,

Since we had our little run-in yesterday, and I attacked this script, I felt a more level headed explanation is called for. You told me to give this a look. I didn't like the opening or the way it tells its story. I've skimmed comments, tweny-something flashbacks just put me off. I think if you played "Devil's Advocate" and read this as if it were written by someone other then yourself, you would agree. That many flashbacks has to be a record in any movie I've ever seen.

I will never fault your writing. Actually quite fond of your opening scenes. I know you ski. Have tried and failed miserably of late. But, you have a way of describing it that only people of experience can understand.

Lots of "ly" wording. Which I've seen you attack. I don't know what MOKE's are. Maybe a description would help.

GLENVILLE
You remember them from ten years
ago? That's quite a memory, Corbin.

Always have a problem with chracters saying each others name in dialogue. Would you address your friend that way? I rarely ever say their names, lest to get their attention. Just doesn't read real to me. I know it's a movie, I just don't agree with it.

(beat) is worn out and old school screen writing IMO. You do fine with your elipses...
JULIE
You're funny...but I love you. - Again, This doesn't sound real to me. I would think she would love him because he makes her laugh. Maybe it's jus me.

I really don't know what a Bajan accent sounds like. Think you should write it that way. If it sounds different at all.

Spent a month in Seattle as a traveling welder. Got a day off to go to Mt. rainier. Was cloud covered when I got there. Really has nothing to do with this script. Moving on...

Okay. At page 14. Nothing substantial has happened yet IMO. I think something should've by this point. I know Julie has dissappeared. But would've liked to see it in some shocking fashion by now. Smack the reader across the face. Wake them up!

Gonna stop here for now. I don't consider myself a good reviewer. I just wanted to address what I thought about your opening. Yes, you wrote a feature. Congrats. I may never post one.

Maybe it was because I skimmed all of the other 7WC and got board with the topic. I just couldn't get through this.

You're still an asshole. I just can't stomach twenty something flashbacks to tell a story.

James








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Dreamscale
Posted: October 12th, 2010, 2:20pm Report to Moderator
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James, hope you’re feeling OK after the long bender you’ve been on (and I mean that seriously, BTW).

I appreciate your comments and the fact that you attempted to read my script.  I know you don’t like my writing, or reading feature length scripts in general, so even an attempt from you here is cool with me.

I’m sorry you didn’t like the opening or the way it sets the story up.  I went with something out of the box and different, and am not surprised some do not like it.  Yes, there are 23 Flashbacks (or were at least…there are more now with the rewrite!), and you are not alone in being put off by this.  Actually, I disagree with you about me not liking such a structure if I were reading someone else’s script, as well as this being a record for # of Flashbacks.   Here’s why…

First of all, keep in mind that in a filmed version, you’re not going to see “Flashback” pop up or anything irritating like that.  You’re just going to see an event that took place in the past, and you’ll understand that immediately.  It really shouldn’t be glaring or take you out of the story, as they all enhance the story IMO.

In terms of this being a record among scripts or movies, I don’t know, actually.  I’ve never kept count before, but as I’ve mentioned in several posts here, take Benjamin Button for an example.  You realize that probably 90% or more of that movie is all Flashback scenes.  There are actually a number of movies that are structured that way.  Now, I understand, we have multiple timelines we’re dealing with here, but it’s actually all 1 story…it’s actually Jack’s story, as every single Flashback is a memory in Jack’s perspective that is shown to make sense of the events that have just occurred and are occurring in real time.

“I will never fault your writing. Actually quite fond of your opening scenes.” – Well, thank you for that compliment, but you’ve already told me you don’t like my writing normally, so this is nice to hear.

“ I know you ski. Have tried and failed miserably of late. But, you have a way of describing it that only people of experience can understand.” – Well, being that this is a montage, I didn’t want to be descriptive in any way.  I apologize if the words I did use are not familiar to you.

Lots of "ly" wording. Which I've seen you attack. I don't know what MOKE's are. Maybe a description would help.” – Hmmm, are there lots of “ly” words here?  I didn’t notice.  Do I attack them on a regular basis?  Not sure to be honest…I know I have in certain circumstances. Guess it depends on how or why they’re being used.  Without examples, I can’t really comment here.  Someone else commented they didn’t know what a Moke was either.  I said something to the effect of one should look up something they are not familiar with.  Giving a description here would be like giving one when using “Jeep” or “Lexus”, or “SUV” IMO.  A Moke is a small British open air vehicle, popular on Barbados and a few other Caribbean islands.

“Always have a problem with characters saying each other’s name in dialogue. Would you address your friend that way? I rarely ever say their names, lest to get their attention. Just doesn't read real to me. I know it's a movie, I just don't agree with it.” – I hear you 100% here, brother.  I really do.  BUT, in a movie, ever character has to somehow get his name across to the audience, and through dialogue is usually the best or easiest way.   I make a point not to do it too often, and to try and keep it a character trait when one uses other’s names frequently.   Corbin and Glenville are not friends, either.  Corbin is much older than Glenville, so they don’t run in the same circles.  If you were to read on, I think you’d find that once characters are intro’d to the point where you know their names, the amount of names in dialogue drops significantly.

“(beat) is worn out and old school screen writing IMO. You do fine with your elipses...” – I guess it’s a personal preference thing.  I only use (beat) to show a long pause in dialogue.

“You're funny...but I love you. - Again, This doesn't sound real to me. I would think she would love him because he makes her laugh. Maybe it's jus me.” – Maybe it’s just the way Julie talks with Jack?  Like many of my characters, Jack and Julie have a goofy side to them…a teasing, playful side.  That’s all this is.

“I really don't know what a Bajan accent sounds like. Think you should write it that way. If it sounds different at all.” – It’s an “island accent”.  I didn’t want to write out island slang lingo, as it would get very irritating.  Barbados is very British, so we’re not talking Jamaican or anything like that.  Many  Bajans, like Addinton, for example, are very proper and polite.

“Okay. At page 14. Nothing substantial has happened yet IMO. I think something should've by this point. I know Julie has disappeared. But would've liked to see it in some shocking fashion by now. Smack the reader across the face. Wake them up!” – Well, what can I say? People routinely say my scripts have a slow build, and I’d have to agree. I tend to backload them for sure, as I feel it’s much more important to finish on a strong note and let the ride play out big…kind of like the old rollercoaster scenario…you gotta climb the hill before you can race down.  Imo, a lot has transpired by page 14.  We’ve met the vast majority of characters. The scene is set that Julie is missing and Jack has lost his memory.  It’s a mystery thriller and things are just starting to roll.

“Maybe it was because I skimmed all of the other 7WC and got bored with the topic. I just couldn't get through this.” – That’s fine and cool.  You don’t particularly like my reading anyway, so I’m not too surprised.  Thanks for reading as much as you did.  I appreciate it.

“You're still an asshole. I just can't stomach twenty something flashbacks to tell a story.” – Not sure how I should respond to this comment, James…so I won’t.

Thanks, man.  Take care.
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jwent6688
Posted: October 12th, 2010, 5:14pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale

“You're still an asshole. I just can't stomach twenty something flashbacks to tell a story.” – Not sure how I should respond to this comment, James…so I won’t.

Thanks, man.  Take care.


You know, as well as I do, that was a joke. Thought after last night's confrontation, you would get that. It's a joke.

You are good at one thing that pertains to writing my friend. You play the part of wounded duck better then anyone. You can turn from being the attacker, to being attacked in no time. You make people sympathize with you. I did. It's amazing. You're gifted.

I don't like your writing. Never have. Never will. But, I wish you best. Congrats on finishing a feature. You're right. I probably never will. I guess that makes you a better story teller. Kiss, kiss, and nice hair...

James



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Dreamscale
Posted: October 12th, 2010, 5:37pm Report to Moderator
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Ha, now that's funny!

Actually, I wasn't sure if you were being serious or kidding around with the "You're still an asshole" line, so I decided not to add any fuel to the fire.

I guess I'm an enigma then, huh?  Yeah, I probably am.

Just for the sake of clarity, what is it abut my writing that you dislike so much?  What am I doing that's so different and off-putting?  I really want to know.

I should really glue that hat to my head so I'd have some hair.  It's not that my hairline is receding...it's more like, it's gone!  Damn, those were the days when I had that beautiful mullet, ponytail, thick, stand up straight in the air hair.  Fuck...where'd those days go?

Take care.
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Murphy
Posted: October 12th, 2010, 5:41pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
those were the days when I had that beautiful mullet, ponytail, thick, stand up straight in the air hair.  Fuck...where'd those days go?


Did they let you keep your dick in a jar afterwards?
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 12th, 2010, 5:45pm Report to Moderator
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I wear the jar like a Depend diaper these days.  It makes me appear to have a huge schlong under my pants.
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jwent6688
Posted: October 12th, 2010, 7:14pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DreamscaleJ
Just for the sake of clarity, what is it abut my writing that you dislike so much?  What am I doing that's so different and off-putting?  I really want to know.


Character development. Always has been. Just never care about any of your characters. Especially in "Fade".

Yes, you've written features. I haven't. I think real horror is caring about your main characters. And yes, watching them die. Can't say I cared for anyone in "Unforgettable" either. So far as I've gotten...

We go straight to the cops. Who come off as robotic. Give them a quirk, something unique. Or, just ignore me. You wanted to know, that's my two cents. Again, I just write shorts. WTF do I know.

James



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Dreamscale
Posted: October 13th, 2010, 11:16am Report to Moderator
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James, I listen to every comment I get.  That doesn't mean I immediately make changes based on those comments, but when someone brings something up that makes sense and I agree with, I'm all over it.

I can guarantee you these 2 cops, Addinton and Glenville, are far from robotic or wooden.  In fact, they both have side stories going along which really bring out their character.  They also both have character traits portrayed in their dialogue.  And, both are integral to the story.

Thanks again for playing along.
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ghost and_ghostie gal
Posted: November 14th, 2010, 10:18pm Report to Moderator
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Jeff...

Congrats on finishing this.  I thought you did a fine job for seven weeks.  Me, I'd rather take four or five months.  You have a lot of comments already, needless to say I only glanced at some of them.   Forgive me if I repeat a thing or two and any grammical errors...

This is not a book, but a script, so believe it or not dialogue is king.  So I must crown you.  Some might disagree just to "Debuke," me.   You had a good mixture of suspense and action.  Maybe more so suspense which it should be for a thriller.

The plot was too simple, I think the story would benefit more if it were a bit complex... good thrillers are.  JMO

I thought the flashback were fine, nothing to confusing.  They revealed important pieces of the puzzle, especially the scene in Vegas.  At first I was skeptical of that scene until I kept reading.   After reading... I didn't see any other way you could pull it off without changing certain aspects of the story.   All I'll say is...  I don't think you needed that many.  Anything that can be cut, should.

People tend to get caught up on the fact that your characters need to be likable and to be honest, they really don't.  Everyone isn't likable, no matter what.  Clearly, Jack wasn't.  Speaking of him, once her left the hospital, there was no real urgency on his part to find his wife.  For most men in that situation, there would be.  So early on I just didn't see it.

Julie and Mitch, neither were too likable either.  Julie came off as very cold in the beginning, but of course we soon find out why.  Mitch, you mentioned you didn't try to hide the fact that he was the other man.  This was clearly evident from the get go, so fair enough.  I was thinking if I was writing this, I probably would have tried to conceal it more, but I got to thinking... the way you set things up, I don't think it would have made a big difference, most of the audience would probably had pegged Mitch right away, regardless.  To find out he was just a ghost in the end surprised me.  But Ryan and Electric Dreamer already pointed out your two blunders with that, so.

I thought Addinton was your most likable character.  The back story with him and his mum was good.  Glenville and Shauntee were fine too.  Speaking of them...

Unfortunately, Glenville and Shauntee; the scenes with them after page 70, they were alright, but I don' think they added too much.  Remember at this point were approaching the finish line... It's about Jack and not them.  If anything, I'd probably try to re-work those scenes somehow.

When people walk out of a movie theater, it doesn't matter what happened throughout the movie, the last thing everyone will remember for sure is the ending.  So you want to make a good one.

In the end, I guess we all get what we deserve and clearly, they did.  I wasn't to surprised at it.  Did you ever consider an alternate one?  

Just a few thoughts.  It was a fast read.  Like I said earlier, I thought this was good for a first draft.  Entertaining.  For what it's worth.

Good Luck

Ghostwriter



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ghost and_ghostie gal  -  November 14th, 2010, 10:32pm
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Dreamscale
Posted: November 15th, 2010, 2:34pm Report to Moderator
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Hey, Ghost, thanks for the read and comments.  I totally appreciate the bump and kind words, of course.

Cool, glad you liked the dialogue, suspense, and action.  I was worried that it may be a little thriller-lite, but thrillers really aren’t my genre of choice.

Yep, the plot was quite simple indeed.  I think the vast majority of my premises are very simple (as I’ve commented before, actually).  I try and take something very simple and then make it as complex as I can.  I tend to like things simple, and easy to follow.  I definitely tried to do as much as I could with it and make it as layered as I could, keeping within the simple premise.

Great!  Glad you liked the Flashbacks and thought they actually added to the story.  Many did not feel this way, so it’s good to hear this.  HaHa…the Vegas scene…one of my faves.  I was extremely worried it was just too long and “unconnected” – glad it worked for you and you see why it’s there.

Ghost, you’ve made my day, buddy!   I’ve had so many people complain about the characters being unlikable and I am in complete agreement with you that they don’t need to be likable, as long as they’re engaging…or interesting.  I feel they are, and actually, in many ways, even likable, but I guess I’m kind of odd in that regard.

You’re completely correct about Jack’s lack of urgency, but hopefully you understand a bit more why he wasn’t so urgent, now that you’ve finished it.  On that same note, as I’ve said a few times, IMO, there really isn’t much he could do (yes, he definitely could have done more).  Once he’s found, the present time line is all within that same day, and his morning was spent in the hospital.

You’re exactly right about Mitch…no matter what I would have done to try and conceal his identity, it would have failed, IMO, unless I intro’d a bunch of other “white” characters, and I didn’t want to muddy the waters.

Glad Mitch’s reveal worked for you. It’s a big piece of the script either working or not working, IMO.  I’ve already fixed up those 2 give-aways that were brought up.

Most are in agreement that Addinton is the most likable character.  I think he’s cool people, too.  Most do not like Glenville and Shauntee.  I really like her character.  I think she’s funny, sexy, and provides some great island T & A.  I hear what you’re saying about their sex scene near the end.  IMO, it is what it is, and for me, any sex scene with good nudity is a plus.  I also really wanted there to be some reason for the audience to route for Glenville and fear for his life. I wanted him to be much more than just a cop. I wanted him to have something to come back for…something to live for.  And of course, I wanted there to be a reason why he was late, leaving Addinton on his own for awhile, in a tough situation.

Ghost, we’re on the same page here.  My philosophy completely is that movies need to end on a strong note. I always try to backload my scripts, which makes them slow in the middle, which many don’t appreciate.  Hopefully, the finale worked for you and ended things up strongly.

I had numerous alternate endings in mind.  This one was the strongest, IMO.  I like things dark, as you probably know.  I don’t appreciate a Hollywood ending (all the time, that is…every now and then is fine, but not  always).  I wanted to tie it all together with the closing montage, which is identical to the opening montage, except you find out that all those scenes were actually of Jack and Mitch, not Jack and Julie, hopefully, making Mitch’s ghost all the more meaningful.

I’ve made a few tweaks here and there, but for the most part, this is going to remain pretty much the way it is.  I added some integral wording, making it clear that Jack actually did everything he could to try and save Julie before she fell.  I also added a few more Flashbacks (yeah, I know…there’s already a shitload) of Jack and Julie in happier times, which hopefully make them both a bit more likable and show that their relationship was solid before Jimmy’s death, and Jack’s fall into depression, and insanity.

Thanks again.  Take care!
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michaelmcgennan
Posted: January 15th, 2011, 8:39pm Report to Moderator
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What a confusing read this is. There are so many flashbacks in it that I was getting neck-strain from being whipped back and forwards to different points in Jack's story.

But one thing remained pretty consistent for me. Jack is a very unattractive person. Not quite as unattractive as Mitch, but close. Both these guys, coke-snorting, hookers-screwing, booze-downing, wisecracking, just turned me right off. I had no sympathy for either of them, as they just seemed so completely impressed with themselves while doing really ugly things.

They aren't 'wild and crazy guys', they're just frat boys with entitlement issues.

But are they closet homosexuals? Wha-a-at?!? I hear the screech from here.

The film starts with a montage of an unnamed couple doing lots of physical sporting activities together, high on adrenaline and each other as they best each challenge. The film ends with the same montage, but this time the unnamed pair that mirrors the opening version are identified as Jack and Mitch, best buddies.

But the first montage seems to indicate, since the pair are neither identified nor their gender's specified, by then seamlessly shifting into the scene of Jack and Julie's wedding, that these two are the sporty couple. That's what the 'grammar' of the montage suggests - unidentified couple flows into identified couple - ergo, the unidentified couple were the identified couple.

At film's end, when the montage is played again, and we are shown that the sporty couple are Jack and Mitch, but the sequence still flows into Jack and Julie's wedding - well, I am seriously confused.

Because in the interim we have learned that Jack has killed both Julie and Mitch upon finding out they were having an affair. But we have also found out that, as Julie puts it to Mitch, "it was me and you before it was me and Jack".

She and Jack are 'celebrating' their tenth wedding anniversary! How long have she and Mitch been cheating on Jack? How long before she married Jack had she been involved with Mitch, and presumably broke it off to link up with Jack? Why didn't Jack ever indicate knowing that his best buddy and his wife might have been an item before Jack stepped up and won her heart from him all those years ago?

I get the feeling that in this story the character of 'Julie' really just serves as that bitch who came between two great guys, however much it is dressed up with dolphins and teardrops to sell us Jack and Julie as the love story of all time.

Another problem I have is with the gratuitous sex scenes between Glenville and Shauntee, which seem to be there for no real reason other than to heat up the screen a little. OK, it might work dramatically to have Addinton initially unable to locate Glenville as the story speeds towards Welchman Hall Gully, but there's side-story happening here which distracts rather than adds to the point of the drama.

In fact, overall, I found the treatment of the Bajan characters just a tad patronising, both in their dialogue and their actions. I like Glenville and Shauntee, but they seem here to be used as a pair of 'hot to trot' parodies of islands-style relaxed sensuality. All that material about "fritters" and "abundant racks" early in the piece, and blowjobs on the patio towards the end, sure it will 'heat up the screen' (it did on my computer), but it's not adding to the forward movement of the main story.

There are other 'islands' things that seem lazy, too. Why does Addinton's mother 'see' the dead Julie's spirit, and ask him to help set "that girl" free? Is it a 'mama voodoo' thing? Or is it a Christian woman sensitive to the afterlife asking help for a tormented soul lying in unconsecrated ground? Addinton's father is at peace in a "beautiful" place, Mrs Harewood tells us - why would the shade of Julie, not at peace, be anywhere near him? And how can Addinton do anything to set Julie's spirit free? This whole sequence/concept is just lazy clichés about black spirituality.

It's the forward movement of the story being hobbled by so many flashbacks that really undoes the script, though. At times I found it hard to work out where I was in Jack's story, and as he did more and more ugly things in it (drugs, hookers, a week before his wedding!), I started to lose any sympathy for him at all. By the by, Julie seems remarkably relaxed about her husband-to-be hinting that he just might have spent the weekend at sexual adventuring. In fact, on Page 66 she even suggests she might play the same game at her Bachelorette Party "next weekend" - way too casual for star-crossed lovers, I'd have thought.

Overall, I keep coming up against the story being hard to follow with all the flashbacks, the lead characters being unattractive human beings, and the treatment of the Bajan characters playing just a little too cornily.

Then we've got Mitch the ghost, who uses cell phones and snorts cocaine so efficiently that 'real' coke disappears from tabletops after a ghost sniffs it up. Page 44, real coke, Addinton sees it; Page 56, the coke's gone, we've 'seen' Mitch snort it. Or is that the same coke Jack snorts at Page 88, when, in flashback, we see him grab a golf club and head off to Welchman Hall Gully? Nope, can't be. Addinton saw the coke at Page 44 in 'now' time after Julie's disappeared. Different line, different time. Still leaves a ghost snorting something out of existence in the material world.

Now, is Mitch a ghost or Jack's guilty projection of the man we will find out he has killed? Eventually we will discover that Mitch, whatever he is, is trying to lead Jack to remember what he's done - killed Julie and Mitch. (Page 94) Why? Does his soul need releasing too? Why didn't Mrs Harewood see him?

Jack deserves what he gets by film's end, but is it really the writer's intention that I should be thinking, so does Mitch, and Julie, too? Because I am.

It's really only little Jimmy, "cute as a button", who doesn't deserve what happens to him - but it had to, didn't it, or Jack and Julie and Mitch could never have ultimately got on their flights to Barbados and descent into murderous mayhem? Maybe if they'd 'fessed up to each other ten or eleven years ago and shacked up as a threesome, Jimmy would be in grade school by now and having fine times in 'show and tell' sessions.

Michael
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Dreamscale
Posted: January 15th, 2011, 10:00pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Michael, thanks for the read, bump, and comments.  I mean that 100% sincerely.  I know you don't know me, but I say over and over that any feedback is great feedback, even when it's extremely or even 100% negative feedback..

I'm watching the Packers game now (I'm from WI and my parents reside in Fish Creek, about an hour north of Green Bay), so I can't respond to your comments in detail, but I will ASAP.

Thanks again.
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Dreamscale
Posted: January 17th, 2011, 2:31pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Michael, thanks again for reading and providing feedback on my script.  Big football weekend, so sorry for taking a couple days to get back with you in detail.

I want to start by filling you in on the background here, as I have a feeling you don’t know.  This was a script that was part of the latest 7WC, which stands for “7 week challenge”.  We were given a genre – Thriller, and a theme – Amnesia, and we had 7 weeks to conceive and write a feature script.  IMO, 7 weeks is pretty quick to put together a solid, clean script.  I spent a lot of time in the planning, researching, and pre-writing.  Once the actual writing started, everything flowed very easily and quickly, and I was very happy with the outcome.  The plotlines and story took many detours along the way, and again, I’m very happy with how it all came together in the end.
I like to respond to feedback as completely as I can.  I figure if someone’s going to invest a couple hours reading my script, and then presenting detailed feedback, the least I can do is respond to each of their points, be they positive or negative.  I’m not real big on the “quoting” feature in here, so I’ll just copy your quotes and reply.  I’ll also give you some of my own comments after I’ve hit all of yours.  Cool?  OK, cool, let’s do it.

“What a confusing read this is. There are so many flashbacks in it that I was getting neck-strain from being whipped back and forwards to different points in Jack's story.” – I’m sorry this confused you.   I’m also a little taken aback that you chose to begin your feedback with a statement like this.  I’m not really sure what you were confused about, though.  The Flashbacks were all very clear in letting you know you were going into a Flashback, and IMO, handled pretty smoothly.  You’re completely correct and not alone in pointing out that there are indeed a shitload of Flashbacks.  I’m not a big Flashback guy, so I figured if I’m going to have to use them (and IMO, I definitely needed them, to tell this story…and probably any amnesia tale in general), I might as well go balls out and tell my story in 2 distinctly different ways – through Flashbacks and through present time, with both plotlines converging in the end.  It’s not supposed to be a cookie cutter structured script, but then again, none of my scripts are…or will be, for that matter.  IMO, once you realize that there are going to be a lot of Flashbacks, your mind should easily wrap around this concept, and take it in, so to speak.  Sorry you were so confused.

“But one thing remained pretty consistent for me. Jack is a very unattractive person. Not quite as unattractive as Mitch, but close. Both these guys, coke-snorting, hookers-screwing, booze-downing, wisecracking, just turned me right off. I had no sympathy for either of them, as they just seemed so completely impressed with themselves while doing really ugly things.” – Well, again, you aren’t alone in thinking Jack (and Mitch) are unattractive characters, but IMO, that shouldn’t really be an issue.  Everyone in here is written as “real” characters with real human flaws, which don’t always do “the right thing”.  IMO that really shouldn’t be an issue for you as a reader or watcher, as long as they’re engaging characters, and to me, they are.  I’ve got a feeling that the people who take offense to their actions are people who take offense to people in general who are like this.  Funny thing is that there are SO MANY people in the real world who do and have acted like this, that you’d never realize, because you don’t have the ability to look into someone’s personal life, or past.  And that’s actually quite sad to me.  We’re talking two entirely different schools of thought here.  There are many who look at drugging, boozing, and banging babes as being cool (to a certain extent, and relatively speaking)…and then there are those who say, “Oh my, that’s just despicable…how could anyone do that?”  Guess we know where both of us fall, huh?

“But are they closet homosexuals? Wha-a-at?!? I hear the screech from here.” – No, they’re definitely not gay or closet homos.  Again, there were a couple of people who wondered the same thing, which really surprises me.  They have always been best friends and enjoy doing things together.  Hope that doesn’t make them gay.

“The film starts with a montage of an unnamed couple doing lots of physical sporting activities together, high on adrenaline and each other as they best each challenge. The film ends with the same montage, but this time the unnamed pair that mirrors the opening version are identified as Jack and Mitch, best buddies.” – Yep, you are correct, Michael, but there isn’t any besting going on, and other than enjoying what’s taking place, they aren’t high on each other.

“But the first montage seems to indicate, since the pair are neither identified nor their gender's specified, by then seamlessly shifting into the scene of Jack and Julie's wedding, that these two are the sporty couple. That's what the 'grammar' of the montage suggests - unidentified couple flows into identified couple - ergo, the unidentified couple were the identified couple.” – Again, you are correct.  That’s exactly what you’re supposed to assume as the audience, and I’m glad it worked that way for you and you read exactly what was written on the page.

“At film's end, when the montage is played again, and we are shown that the sporty couple are Jack and Mitch, but the sequence still flows into Jack and Julie's wedding - well, I am seriously confused.” – Why are you confused about this, Michael?  Are you truly “confused”, or is it that you’re upset that you were duped, so to speak, about the realization that the opening montage mostly followed memories of Jack and Mitch, when you “assumed” it was Jack and Julie, based on the way it was presented?  If you’re actually just questioning why this is, it’s because Jack’s first memories, as he comes to, are of the good times he shared with Mitch, and his guilt over killing him.  I also like to bookend things in scripts and do it in a way that changes things up.  Again, sorry you were so confused over this.

“Because in the interim we have learned that Jack has killed both Julie and Mitch upon finding out they were having an affair. But we have also found out that, as Julie puts it to Mitch, "it was me and you before it was me and Jack".” – Yep, correct.  There is some back story that was cut out (that may need to be fleshed out a bit better).  All 3 were college friends and Julie and Mitch were together as a couple first.  It didn’t work and they broke it off (while remaining good friends), and Jack moved in, they got married, had a son, blah, blah, blah.

“She and Jack are 'celebrating' their tenth wedding anniversary! How long have she and Mitch been cheating on Jack? How long before she married Jack had she been involved with Mitch, and presumably broke it off to link up with Jack? Why didn't Jack ever indicate knowing that his best buddy and his wife might have been an item before Jack stepped up and won her heart from him all those years ago?”  Julie and Mitch have been having an affair ever since Jack “lost it”, after Jimmy was killed.  Jack started doing coke, drinking like a fish, and falling into deep depression.  Julie went out with Mitch in college.  Jack and Julie started dating seriously in college after Julie and Mitch ended their romantic relationship.  Jack knew damn well that Mitch was with Julie first.  They were all great friends…solid enough friends that could put that behind them.

“I get the feeling that in this story the character of 'Julie' really just serves as that bitch who came between two great guys, however much it is dressed up with dolphins and teardrops to sell us Jack and Julie as the love story of all time.” – No, not true, Jack and Julie had it all until Jimmy bit it.  Jack’s drugging, boozing, and overall asshole-like ways pushed Julie to the edge, and she jumped…into Mitch’s waiting arms.

“Another problem I have is with the gratuitous sex scenes between Glenville and Shauntee, which seem to be there for no real reason other than to heat up the screen a little. OK, it might work dramatically to have Addinton initially unable to locate Glenville as the story speeds towards Welchman Hall Gully, but there's side-story happening here which distracts rather than adds to the point of the drama.” – Sorry you don’t like gratuitous sex scenes with smoking hot babes…I sure do!  IMO, an R rated movie should provide R rated material.  Is it necessary here?  Of course not, but it’ll sure look good on screen.  As you mentioned, it also does play into the finale, and I’m the kind of writer who likes to dot all my “I’s” and cross all my “t’s”, in terms of there being real reasons why things happen.  Again, Michael, it’s obvious that you and I play on different sides of the fence, and that’s totally cool with me.

“In fact, overall, I found the treatment of the Bajan characters just a tad patronising, both in their dialogue and their actions. I like Glenville and Shauntee, but they seem here to be used as a pair of 'hot to trot' parodies of islands-style relaxed sensuality. All that material about "fritters" and "abundant racks" early in the piece, and blowjobs on the patio towards the end, sure it will 'heat up the screen' (it did on my computer), but it's not adding to the forward movement of the main story.” – Hmmm, here we go again.  Yep, the sole reason for all this is because it’s an R rated script that deals with R rated material, and will hopefully attract and appeal to an R rated audience.  You say you liked Glenville and Shauntee, yet you didn’t like what they do or say, nor did you like their side plot…so what was it about them that you liked?  IMO, it’s the little things they do and say that make them likable and more importantly, memorable characters.  In no way was I intentionally being patronizing to anyone.  Another cool thing about these 2 is that you rarely see sex/nudity of this nature in mainstream movies, and I do like to push the envelope.

“There are other 'islands' things that seem lazy, too. Why does Addinton's mother 'see' the dead Julie's spirit, and ask him to help set "that girl" free? Is it a 'mama voodoo' thing? Or is it a Christian woman sensitive to the afterlife asking help for a tormented soul lying in unconsecrated ground? Addinton's father is at peace in a "beautiful" place, Mrs Harewood tells us - why would the shade of Julie, not at peace, be anywhere near him? And how can Addinton do anything to set Julie's spirit free? This whole sequence/concept is just lazy clichés about black spirituality.” – It’s not intended to be “lazy”, Michael, and I apologize that you think it is.  Again, 7 weeks isn’t a very long time to get everything exactly straight, but IMO, this is so far from a sticking point.  You know the way it works…as an audience, you really don’t always get all the answers, and I find it somewhat funny that you seek such deep “spiritual” information here over a secondary character.  Truth of the matter is that originally, there was another character, who was basically a gypsy-like “Mama-Voodoo” woman who set Addinton and Glenville on the right trail, so to speak.  I didn’t like it or the character and didn’t find it believable or realistic, so she got axed and this part of her transferred into Mrs. Harewood.  I decided to just glance over it and add a supernatural element to tie in with Mitch being a spirit the whole present timeline.  Mrs. Harewood is teetering between life and death, as she continually “sees” her husband waiting for her.   When Addinton talks to her, he’s thinking in his mind about Julie’s disappearance and his Mum is able to “feel” this, thus her comments about Julie. – NOTE – In the rewritten version, there are some major differences in what she says (and gives away).  Again, sorry this isn’t working for you.
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Dreamscale
Posted: January 17th, 2011, 2:32pm Report to Moderator
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Part 2 - Continued -

“It's the forward movement of the story being hobbled by so many flashbacks that really undoes the script, though. At times I found it hard to work out where I was in Jack's story, and as he did more and more ugly things in it (drugs, hookers, a week before his wedding!), I started to lose any sympathy for him at all. By the by, Julie seems remarkably relaxed about her husband-to-be hinting that he just might have spent the weekend at sexual adventuring. In fact, on Page 66 she even suggests she might play the same game at her Bachelorette Party "next weekend" - way too casual for star-crossed lovers, I'd have thought.” – Well, this is a tough one to address, as you’re bringing up 2 completely different topics in this 1 passage…but I’ll address them both again for you.  Let’s get this straight – Jack’s Flashbacks are Jack’s memories coming back to him at random times, about random events (OK, they’re not completely random, nor are they at completely random times, but you know what I mean…hopefully).  It’s the structure of the script and if you can’t get your head around it or just plain hate it, that’s cool.  But it is what it is, and IMO, it’s rather unique and would work well onscreen.  Then, you go back to your moral issues with the script and the characters.  Michael, obviously I don’t know anything about you, but based on your comments, I can draw a pretty good picture of where you stand (and that doesn’t make you a bad person at all).  But, you’ve got to understand that although you’re not alone where you stand, there are plenty of people standing across from you as well, who don’t share the exact same strict, moral rights and wrongs that you do.  It doesn’t make them bad people either, and I’m not talking in God’s eyes or anything like that…I’m talking the real world where shit goes down all the time that would blow your mind away if you ever had a clue it was actually going down all around you.  Let’s do a quick test and see what you really think.  Are you familiar with the movie “It’s Complicated”?  Mainstream, big budget Hollywood release, big star power, big WWBO.  R rating, rampant drug use, rampant boozing, adultery, infidelity, etc.  BUT, all done in a comedic way.  What did you think about those characters?  Did you detest them because of their actions, or did you take it in stride, based on the tone and the fact that these weren’t bad people, just flawed people, making the same mistakes millions of people make in the real world all the time.

“Overall, I keep coming up against the story being hard to follow with all the flashbacks, the lead characters being unattractive human beings, and the treatment of the Bajan characters playing just a little too cornily.” – Ok, I’ve tried to address these issues numerous times, so I’m going to assume you either understand me or we agree to disagree at this point.

“Then we've got Mitch the ghost, who uses cell phones and snorts cocaine so efficiently that 'real' coke disappears from tabletops after a ghost sniffs it up. Page 44, real coke, Addinton sees it; Page 56, the coke's gone, we've 'seen' Mitch snort it. Or is that the same coke Jack snorts at Page 88, when, in flashback, we see him grab a golf club and head off to Welchman Hall Gully? Nope, can't be. Addinton saw the coke at Page 44 in 'now' time after Julie's disappeared. Different line, different time. Still leaves a ghost snorting something out of existence in the material world.” – Yep, this ghost is able to manipulate objects just like…well, just like ghosts have done onscreen for quite a long time.  You ever see a movie where a ghost carries a candelabra (or whatever) and it appears to float along?  Or a ghost making a TV come on?  Anything really.  What can ghosts do and not do?  Personally, I’m not sure anyone can really answer that question, can they?  Are ghosts real?  As far as I’m concerned, when dealing with a subject like this, the writer can decide what can and can’t happen.  Obviously, the whole point was to create a twist in the end and then make the audience think back about everything that happened to see if it really made sense.  One thing to keep in mind is that no other character except Jack, sees and interacts with Mitch in the present timeline.  I don’t follow what you’re saying doesn’t make sense with the page #’s you quoted.  Yes, Addinton sees some coke on a mirror on page 44.  Yes, ghost Mitch snorts some lines and drains some vodka and Jack sees that on page 56.  All the coke Jack bought is not laying on the mirror…he bought a whole 8 ball, so he’s got more somewhere else.  Yes, on page 88, Jack is snorting the same coke that Addinton sees later, and grabbing the driver he uses to kill Mitch (it’s the last time Jack is in Colina Del Mar before the present timeline kicks in).  It all makes perfect sense, Michael, if you take the time to figure it out.  Trust me; I spent a shitload of time making sure everything lined up between timelines, and if I missed something, I’d like to know and correct it, cause I’m a perfectionist at heart..

“Now, is Mitch a ghost or Jack's guilty projection of the man we will find out he has killed? Eventually we will discover that Mitch, whatever he is, is trying to lead Jack to remember what he's done - killed Julie and Mitch. (Page 94) Why? Does his soul need releasing too? Why didn't Mrs Harewood see him?” – Mitch is indeed a ghost.  Correct, Ghost Mitch is leading Jack to remember what he did.  I guess you could say his soul needs release.  Maybe Mrs. Harewood did see him…but she didn’t know who he was, as Addinton wasn’t aware that he was investigating a double murder (as I said earlier, Mrs. Harewood “reads” from her son that he’s after a missing girl only).

“Jack deserves what he gets by film's end, but is it really the writer's intention that I should be thinking, so does Mitch, and Julie, too? Because I am.” – It’s the writer’s intention to produce a thought provoking, uniquely structured twisty supernatural/thriller/mystery hybrid, full of engaging characters, graphic, hard core violence, sex, and nudity.  The rewritten version is a bit different in my portrayal of Julie, including her demise.  Jack actually snapped back into reality just before Julie slipped off the ledge of the cliff.  He actually tried to save her but was unsuccessful (this is a major change in the script, as the version you read does not make that clear at all).  Do I feel Mitch and Julie deserved to be killed?  No, definitely not.  It’s a dark, pull no punches script, however, so what comes around, usually goes around.

“It's really only little Jimmy, "cute as a button", who doesn't deserve what happens to him - but it had to, didn't it, or Jack and Julie and Mitch could never have ultimately got on their flights to Barbados and descent into murderous mayhem? Maybe if they'd 'fessed up to each other ten or eleven years ago and shacked up as a threesome, Jimmy would be in grade school by now and having fine times in 'show and tell' sessions.” – Ha, Michael, that’s funny.  You’ve got a real goading type of style that I’m trying so hard to ignore.  So, I guess you’re saying that in your mind if a person commits adultery, does drugs, and drinks alcohol, they deserve to die?  Is that what you’re saying?  No, Jimmy, definitely didn’t deserve to die…he’s just a frickin’ little kid, for God’s sake.  No, it didn’t have to happen that way, it’s the way I chose, however, to put a strain on Jack and Julie’s idyllic relationship and lifestyle.  There’s a bunch that maybe needs to be read into here, involving the various relationships, but for the record, I’ll set you straight here…Jack and Julie had a wonderful life together before Jimmy died.  Jack hid in drugs and booze and distanced himself from Julie.  Julie sought comfort in their old friend, Mitch.  Jack began to get his life back, and Julie began to understand.  Julie called it off with Mitch, but he didn’t go away like he should have.  Jack and Julie took this trip to Barbados to rekindle their lost relationship.  Mitch showed up unannounced, and things spun out of control quickly.  Hope that sheds some light for you and clears up some of your issues.  BTW, it is entirely possible that Jack, Mitch, and Jules did engage in a few ménages back in the day, but again, IMO, that doesn’t make them bad people, doesn’t make Jack and Mitch gay, now would it be something that Jack and Julie would tell their young son so he could in turn share that information at school.

OK, Michael, now a couple comments from me.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  That is all fine and cool.  I respect any and all feedback, comments, critiques, etc.  I really do.  Yours is quite hard to swallow though, based on the derogatory tone you chose to use.  Every single comment you made was negative.  Is it really possible that there’s nothing here that you enjoyed?  Nothing you thought was well done, positive?  Do you think it’s a fairly clean script in terms of typos, misspellings, grammar, format, etc?  Do you think there are some surprising twists you didn’t see coming?  Some excitement?  Some thrills/chills/scares? Are there some good visuals in here?  Any interesting characters or character relationships?  Anything at all that you could throw out that’s remotely positive?

Now, if there isn’t, IYO, that’s cool, and I understand.  But it’s a tough pill to swallow seriously, when it’s pretty obvious the intent behind your read and comments.  I called you out on another thread.  You didn’t like that.  You looked up something I wrote and wanted to attack it, and came up with all the negatives you could think of.  You put it all together in an irritating, goading mishmash of moral indecencies and righteous attitude, and still never really offered any real advice, much like your comments on Shawn’s Mission Style script.

It’s sad, actually, cause you obviously should know what you’re talking about with a couple of screenwriting credits under your belt, and I bet you’ve got lots of insight and maybe even stories to tell.  Why not use that knowledge to help unproduced writers in here?  Why not offer advice on how to fix things you see as errors, as opposed to being snide and provoking?  Why not use what you’ve learned over the years and come across as an insightful, good guy who is willing to help, as opposed to a snide, goading A-Hole who goes out of his way to be cryptic and downright mean?

We obviously got off on the wrong foot, Michael, and that’s too bad.  I personally don’t hold grudges, so if you choose to leave the dark side and come into the light, I’m sure your experience will be a welcome addition to this site.

Take care and thanks again for taking the time to read my script.
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michaelmcgennan
Posted: January 17th, 2011, 5:04pm Report to Moderator
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Jef, hi. Hey, you worked out how to get A-hole past the auto-censoring here!

We'll have to agree to disagree on your script. You read my mind, tell me all I'm doing is payback, may-aybe. What I did tell you in my critique is what I honestly feel after having read your script. What's the point of observing your spellchecker works a treat, or your scriptwriting program auto-formats for 'feature screenplay' without a hitch? And speaking of "grammar", in Part 1 of your response to my critique you misread what I said.

If a montage is played twice, the second time is usually played to add further information for the audience. This you have done - unidentified couple in the montage's second run through identified. Fine, but the internal grammar of a montage also has its own logic - a couple in sporty activity, a couple getting married, child dies in accident. We can join the dots, and do so backwards as well - accidentally killed child of married couple who are very active sports types: we HAVE to assume the sports couple are Jack and Julie because they are the only pair identified in the first run of the montage. If we only find out at film's end that the sporty couple was actually Jack and Mitch, well, I've already spelled out my take on that. I also think it might crack an audience up, which is surely the last thing you want.

Maybe have all three sporty together at the start, and also show us Jack 'winning' Julie over Mitch, and the best friend gallantly giving way to the 'better man'. That's happened often enough in the bits of real life you tell me I've missed out on.

Look, we can quote and counter-quote at each other until there are no cows left to come home. I don't like your story, the three main characters in it, or the way it's written for the screen. I said why in my first post. Nothing you've written here has altered my opinion.

We clearly have different tastes in story-telling, ideas about what makes a film work, and probably a whole lot else in life. But one thing life most definitely is is a lottery. So I wish you the best of luck getting your hard, and passionately defended, work onto the big screen. We all know how tough it is getting there.

We're walking different roads to the same destination. Should we meet there, the first round's on me.

Michael
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Dreamscale
Posted: January 17th, 2011, 5:39pm Report to Moderator
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No problem, Michael.  Understood completely.  It's all good.

I always respond as best I can to feedback and sometimes that comes across as "defending" what I did, and the reasons why I chose to do what i chose to do.

I'm not questioning your expertise at this point and bet you've got so much to share and offer writers of all levels here on SS, as well as anywhere unproduced writers congregate.  It would be nice to see you go that route, as opposed to being cryptic or even vengeful.

I work as an editor and am constantly shocked how poorly most things are written, spell checker, software, whatever being used.  I think you'd be too, if you read more scripts here, or even Pro scripts.  I pride myself in clean formatting/writing, and always strive for perfection, but we both know that perfection is an always moving target.

Just to go back to the montage issue you brought up one last time, I want to be clear in that it's a personal choice I made to purposely "dupe" my audience into believing exactly what you brought up about who we are watching in the intro, and then who it actually was in the end.  If I had made it clear up front, I seriously feel that the integrity of the ruse would be lost, and the mystery and twist would be exposed.  I can think of many, many cinematic examples of how this has worked over the years, and for me comes down to good, clear, exact writing, as opposed to "cheating" the audience into believing something that is not to be.

BTW, you can turn off the auto censor feature that blocks swear words and the like in your profile, so you'll see exactly what's being said..and be able to say exactly what you want.

I'm all for brutal honesty and I give it out on a daily basis, so I'm cool with anyone who doesn't like something I've written or have to say.  It's all good.  I just expect the same constructive criticism as I'm used to giving, including examples of why, etc.  I usually try to give some positives as well, and although it may be difficult at times, IMO, it sure helps, and IMO, there are numerous examples of things that are positive on display here, especially considering that this was conceived and written in a 7 week time period.

Take care.
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michaelmcgennan
Posted: January 17th, 2011, 10:28pm Report to Moderator
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Jeff, hi. No message really, except to thank you for the civility of our exchanges... and to offer you a 'century' in cricketing terms.

Your 100th reply!

Regards, Michael
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Ledbetter
Posted: January 17th, 2011, 10:39pm Report to Moderator
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Well played guys!

Shawn.....><
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: January 31st, 2011, 4:27pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Hello Jeff,

First off, congratulations on this. For me it was a good read and any criticisms can be worked out successively later on.

We’ve got a good hook and interesting surroundings. We're asking:

Why’s he been roughed up on vacation? Why after so many years, do they come back and he's been beaten up and she's missing? What's the a connection?

So yes, we've got questions that need answering, but I think this story could benefit from more on the side of Jack's wife, Julie.

From the side of Julie’s character, I think it’s weak. I actually was feeling more sympathy for Jack than her. He spiraled down into drug abuse and it’s like she had no pain in her son’s death. She was never shown to be a mother. She felt more like a prop to me.

Of course, my whole opinion of Jack changed in the end. He became this violent killer and I felt this was too far to go with him. I just didn't see it happening the way it did.
He went from an innocent victim of fate to an unforgiving soul that killed his wife, his best friend and even the police officer that was good to him.

Here are some notes:

When Corbin says,

Pg 3

CORBIN
Lena, I need medical over here, girl.
Got a man all roughed up. Send an officer, as well, please.

I felt the dialogue didn’t ring true. Firstly because it sounded like it was a police officer talking and then I went back and re-read because I thought there might have been a naming mistake; so that drew my attention.

I think that if Corbin was radioing the receptionist at the his car rentals place, she’d be in her own world and it would be like a person speaks in perfect English, but you don’t get it because it’s totally off topic.

I don't remember exactly if the receptionist was written in, but I was getting a picture of her in my head... and she's kind of woken up from a stupor thinking, Send an officer as well, please? What the hell?

Maybe you can try and see if you can find a Bajan expression that means “Holy shit” and have her receiving the call and looking out the window and actually noticing the mess.

Here at the hospital:

> His cell phone BUZZES to life, next to him on the bedside table. It slowly turns and HUMS, as it vibrates.

Cell phones aren’t allowed to be turned on in hospitals. It might be different in Barbados though, I don't know.

When Mitch says,

>Your dad thought I could help.

I’m wondering why his dad wouldn’t come himself. Strange.

Page 13

>Sanford motions to the closed door.

What kind of motion? I was thinking, but then I understood it as "You first motion".

>This is Inspector Harewood.

This gave me pause and made me stumble in the read because I thought it was Addinton, but then I learned it was his first name. I’d change his first name because it sounds like a last name.

Page 16 Jack says,

>Of course. I’m worried about Julie.

It sounds off. Perhaps, I’m really worried.

>DR. SANDIFORD
Jack, you need anything, anything at
all, you hit your call button for Nurse Margaret. I'll be in to check on you later. You need to rest.

Way off. The doctor would just say, “a nurse”. Nurse Margaret is not the only nurse on the floor. And shifts rotate. They’re always changing them around. Sometimes a lot.

Why wouldn’t Mitch come to the hospital? It sounds way too “set up” plot wise.

And nobody on the floor notices Jack leaving in his muddy clothes? When he’s involved in “something” and the police are involved? I don’t think so.

Page 66

>ADDINTON
God's given her a full life. She's
going to a better place.

He has said this a few times already I think and it feels weak.

I noticed this comment:


Quoted from Ryan1
Hey Jeff,

Now, I've never been the biggest fan of flashbacks.  In some scripts, as in this one, they are a necessity.  But only in moderation.  In your script, the flashbacks are really the engine powering the narrative forward.  Every couple of pages it seems that Jack gazes upon some object and has an incredibly convenient flashback to tell us more details and move the story along.  IMO, the result is a stilted reading experience where we're having these fragmented memories spoon fed to us.

Ryan


And I think it's a good one. I think this story might better be told as a "what if" scenario where you take Jack out to a bar, he meets a friend and his friend tells him a true story about what happened to this guy who couldn't "let go" and move on with his life. Kind of, "If you don't change, this kind of thing could happen to you" scenario. Jack stumbles out of the bar perhaps, gets beat up after he antagonizes a couple of teenagers and winds up in "that car in Barbados"...

If you were to do this, yes, it would be from the standpoint of a dream scape, but it would be a relevant one that you might be able to manipulate more into the kind of story you want this to be.

One of my biggest problems with the story as it stands, is that it's just one of those kinds of cops type of shows that I had seen enough of growing up as a kid.

The story I'm interested in this is Jack and Julie. I'm not even interested in Mitch. He's just this cheating SOB that has led Jack down the wrong path. All of the pretty scenery and stuff that Jack imagines (in the beginning and end) from his early age with this guy is just over-imagined "fun stuff" that had more to do with his own machismo immaturity than anything else. It's imagery, I think, that is false and might be something you might like to work with. Or not, but let me offer it here for you to consider:

Let's imagine for a moment that Jack is shown to be remembering these wonderful scenes of his youth with Mitch. And keep them like they are, all beautiful silky romanticized kinds of things. But then, enter Julie, and she says to him:

That's not how it was: And the images change to something very different. Perhaps Jack not being responsible. Wanting to play boy games with Buddy Mitch forever. And his irresponsibility is the very same irresponsibility that winds up leaving his son at risk.

Now here, you might entertain Pia's suggestion on making this more visual. You can bring Julie's perspective into it. And let me ask, "Who is she? Was she perhaps continuing on in the relationship with Mitch because Mitch, through his unscrupulous activities, was helping Julie to pay the mortgage? Otherwise, Jack, with his "memory problem" due to the drugs would have also failed in that responsibility and they would lose their home? Might it be that Jack was given "a false job", but the money was coming from Mitch. And this, Mitch convinced Julie, would help Jack to keep his pride, it would help them to keep their house, and anyways, "Julie, Jules, we can have some special times together. And no one gets hurt. It's all good, right?"

With this type of scenario, maybe you can eliminate some of the woman in the hospital and the stuff with Glenville and that babe. I don't think you need it.

Anyways Jeff, food for thought.

Maybe start with Jack and Julie and their relationship being on the rocks and why.

Show Jack's lost youth that he misses and romanticizes over. (The parachuting etc...)

Show Julie's clear perspective of how "It wasn't so pretty like you describe." ...
And show the irresponsibility factor.

Show Julie cutting deep and verbally blaming Jack for their son's death.

Have time clear this away somewhat, apologies, but then Jack declines and one night...

Jack goes out and gets drunk and talks to that guy in the bar... and from then, he leaves and gets beat up and the rest is "Barbados".

I guess it's a matter of figuring out the logistics of telling this through the perspective of Jack having a nightmare like this after a kind of suggestion being planted in his head at the bar.

If you did this, I don't know about Mitch. I think the fact that he's been paying the mortgage has something good inside of it.

Maybe you could have Jack then, insist, (when the dream is over) that

"A guy walks into a bar..." And that same guy tell him that "true story about what happened to a guy..."

From there maybe Mitch leaves, gets beat up, falls into...

Barbados...

And we don't know for sure, but can imagine that he, too, is redeemed.

I like that idea better. More character. More meaning. Raises it.

Hope this helps. Having said all that,

I'm very truly impressed with you work.  

Sandra




A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: February 1st, 2011, 12:02am Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Quoted from George Willson


70 - The Glenville-Shauntee scene. I know you wanted the rack in there, but we already knew this scene was coming, so it actually has neither plot nor character benefit...so far.
86 - Another Glenville-Shauntee scene. Still contributes nothing to the story.

I think it was a good effort, but needs some more work, especially in the department of predictability. If this were someone else's script, I can see you having a field day with it.


I'm researching some of the comments and wow. Came across George's dark side. You are a sweetheart, but I'm feeling the dark my honey child.

Anyways, I wanted to say that yes, I do agree with some of what you're saying, but I want to take away some of the venom. Don't know exactly. Might be a "guy thing".

But yes, you're right George...

I too felt the Glenville-Shauntee scene was just one of those explicit scenes that really aren't needed. I'm brought back to "Thief" and thinking about our "Cherry undressing to jump in the pool scene". It's basically the same thing. Might work. Might not. Depending upon the whole context, but in this case, I am certain that you can do better. And that's a compliment because I feel that a part of your personality is getting in the way of your progress. Indeed, I can feel it through your characters which is a damn good thing because it means to me you have a lot more of "potential" in "POTENTIAL" because you have the choice to write with heart and not just paint by numbers.

In fact Jeff, I see a huge personal character jump in your writing here. I feel what I've always known exists... and I know it's hard for you to do. Who knows why we have these kinds of blocks. But I applaud you for that.

I'm a little sad about George's comment about you "having a field day" if this were someone else's script. HOWEVER, you know you've got it coming...

Everyone has different levels of "acceptance".

But back to this story...

I do feel that THE CHARACTER in this script is also A LOCATION...

It's something that many of us-- the audience can relate to.

You projected a lot of "you" into this and I feel it and to me that means a whole
lot!

I felt that you, Jeff, went a whole lot deeper into this compared to Fade To White...

And it shows. At least to me.

Although I don't want to add oil to the fire of any ego you might have...

I do want to say that I feel very positive about this script. All it needs is a few
concrete points that solidify the characters' decisions-- however you want to
spin them. And of course, some technical and stylistic issues that are always
a pain in the ass for any script...

But yeah...

Get rid of some of the Cop Stuff. Get rid of Glenville and Sheh- what's-her-name...

Go deeper into Jack, Julie and Mitch.

You have a darn good story here. Don't let it sit on the shelf.

Sandra




A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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Dreamscale
Posted: February 1st, 2011, 12:23am Report to Moderator
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Thanks so much, Sandra!  I totally appreciate the read and detailed feedback.

I've missed you...we all have!  Where ya been, girl?  Hopefully enjoying life.

I'll respond in detail when I get a chance, most likely, tomorrow...got a few things going down right now.

Talk to ya later!
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: February 1st, 2011, 1:20am Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Quoted from dogglebe


One thing that really bothered me was the opening montage (I forgot to mention this earlier).  The images that you show us are fast going and active, almost extreme.  And you're going to have a slow moving song like 'Unforgettable' playing in the background?  It didn't match up, or work, for me.

Phil


I respect your opinion, Phil, but I also respect mine.

In this case...

I love the "waves of the canoe", the  "parachutes gliding", the "those bubbles bursting upwards...

...and all of them kinds of fast action scenes juxtaposed under the sound of "Unforgettable".

Truly, as a woman, I am having an emotional orgasm right now.

And I think that's what many of us dream about every day of our waking lives.

God bless the man that can do this.

Sandra




A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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Dreamscale
Posted: February 1st, 2011, 2:19pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Sandra, good to see you’re back on the boards.  Thank so much for the read and feedback.

Glad it was a good read for you and you enjoyed the hook and settings.

I’ll try and address your concerns by letting you in on what I was trying to accomplish here.  You are not alone in wanting more from Julie, but I made a conscious decision to keep her pretty much out of the story (she literally doesn’t show up for a single split second in the current timeline story).  She’s all in the past, merely a faded memory.  This is Jack’s story.  Mitch also doesn’t show up for a single second in the present timeline.  Now, his ghost does, but that’s a major twist/reveal that much of the success of the script hangs on.  This is why Addinton and Glenville’s characters and stories are played up so heavily (or at least, as heavily as they are played up).

As usual, I’ve avoided a standard structure and storyline.  Although the basic plot and story is very, very simple, it’s twisted around so that it’s really no longer simple.  The bulk of the story is told through Flashbacks…things that occurred in the past, as well as things that occurred earlier in the week on Barbados.

Every Flashback is written from Jack’s POV, as they’re all Jack’s memories.  Therefore, we really can’t “see” any actual emotions or feelings from any other characters, and since Julie and Mitch only appear in Flashbacks, well, that’s probably why they feel like props or less than developed characters.  Again, it was a conscious decision to write this from a different perspective and stick to it vehemently.

I wasn’t really after my audience feeling sympathy for Julie, as we really don’t learn that much about her.  Things are assumed based on various events.  Many have said that Julie is an unlikable character.  In my rewrite, I have actually given her a little more life and likability through the addition of a few Flashbacks (yes, more Flashbacks!) of her and Jack in happier times.  Sympathy and concern should be with Jack for sure…and Addinton and Glenville to a certain degree (that’s why they each have side stories playing out in the present timeline and are much more than cardboard cutouts of cops…they’re real people with real lives that are playing out around them.

“Of course, my whole opinion of Jack changed in the end. He became this violent killer and I felt this was too far to go with him. I just didn't see it happening the way it did.
He went from an innocent victim of fate to an unforgiving soul that killed his wife, his best friend and even the police officer that was good to him.” – Interesting you should say this, Sandra.  Others seem to feel the same way, and I don’t quite get it.  I see Jack very differently.  Maybe I didn’t get it across well enough (there are a few changes in the rewrite, which try to show Jack as a better person in the end).

Here’s the deal with Jack on paper (but maybe it didn’t actually make it to the paper!)…Jack isn’t a bad guy at all.  He used to be a good guy, but again, that all depends on your perspective.

Here’s an example of what I’m trying to say.  Let’s look at Tiger Woods for a moment.  Up until late 2009, Tiger was the epitome of perfection.  He was loved by literally everyone…young/old, male/female, black/white, straight/gay, everyone.  He was perfect in just about every way.  Good looking, well spoken, amazing athlete, beautiful wife and family, you name it, he had it going for him.  But then, news broke that everything we knew about him wasn’t reality.  He cheated on his wife with hundreds of girls, many of them being prostitutes.  His world crumbled, his sponsors left, people turned against him.

He was still the exact same person he was all along, but all of a sudden, his personal life was made public, and because of that, many people literally hated him and totally reversed what they thought of him only a day earlier.

Point is that we all have skeletons in our closet. No one is perfect. We’re all flawed to a certain extent, but we hide those flaws so that only the people closest to us know who we really are.  I wrote Jack as a flawed character. I came right out and showed him doing many things that many people feel strongly about…drugs, heavy drinking, cheating, etc.  Because of that, many people say he’s an unlikable, ugly, self gratifying asshole.  If so, he’s not alone, though.  People may not realize it, or even want to believe it, but we can all be pigs in the “right” situation.  Vegas brings out the best and worst in people…it all depends how you look at it.  It’s not always the men, either.  It’s shocking to me how many happily married, “perfect” wives/mothers do things in Vegas that would instantly cause a divorce if their husbands only knew.  But they don’t know…and that’s a good thing.  Same deal with Jack and his issues.

Now, Jack did go through major issues in his life when his son was killed.  He fell into deep depression, heavy drinking and drug use, self blame, self doubt…you name it, he went through it.  Julie didn’t handle it perfectly, either.  As Jack pushed her away through his unacceptable behavior, she fell into the arms of her ex-lover, Mitch.  Mitch didn’t handle it properly either.  He was/is Jack’s best friend, as well as good friends with Julie.  The spark was always there with them, as they were a couple back in college, when Jack, Mitch, and Julie were all friends, and he succumbed to the Jules’ charms, and vice versa once again.  All heavily flawed, but “real”
characters.

One more thing that’s important.  In the end, Jack lost it completely…and I’m talking about his sanity.  You can call him a cold blooded, heartless killer, but that’s not really accurate.  He was highly intoxicated.  He was heavily under the influence of drugs.  He was attacked and almost killed in the cave earlier that same day, then overcame his adversaries and saved himself and Julie.  And, it all culminated when he came upon Mitch and Julie together in the gully.  He went nuts with rage, anger, jealousy, and in an alcohol and drug fueled moment, he lashed out at Mitch.  Keep in mind that Jack initially didn’t kill Mitch or Julie…he hit Mitch with the golf club several times, and Mitch fell over the cliff.  Julie slipped on her own and fell to her death (in the rewrite, it’s much more apparent that Jack seriously tried with all his might to save her, but she slipped away and fell).  When Jack got to the forest floor and found Mitch still alive, he was completely insane, not at all himself.  He did kill his best friend in very cold blood, but it was the culmination of everything that lead up to it that caused him to go off the deep end.  When we get to the finale in present time, and Jack finds out exactly what he did, again, he’s completely insane…and completely high on cocaine and drunk as a skunk on vodka.  He attempts to kill Addinton, but in the end Addinton survives.  Hope that makes sense and helps a bit.

Responses to your notes:

Lena is Corbin’s wife, actually.  I cut down some early dialogue that makes this clear.  Later, when Corbin talks with Addinton, he mentions that his wife (Lena) visited Mrs. Harewood at the hospital earlier.  It’s a small island and these people are all friends.

For this script, cell phones are allowed in hospitals in Barbados.  Ha Ha!!

Mitch was lying about Jack’s Dad calling him.  Mr. Benton was in London on business, as Addinton found out later and told Glenville.

The majority of Bajans are very polite and proper people, being from an English background.  I made sure to try and use both Addinton’s first and last name a few times early on so the audience would be aware of his name in a filmed version.

The stuff about “Nurse Margaret” is simply to keep it at 2 characters in the hospital.

“Why wouldn’t Mitch come to the hospital?” – He couldn’t, as he’s a ghost.  Many didn’t like how Jack left and met Mitch at the beach, but Mitch can’t interact with any characters other then Jack.  The other problem was if Mitch did indeed go to the hospital, how would the two of them get out and get somewhere where they could be alone?  A cab wouldn’t work, as Jack would appear insane talking to someone who wasn’t there in front of a cabbie.  After much thought, I chose this route.  When Addinto talks to Dr. Sandiford later about Jack being gone, Sandiford says that he wasn’t being held, and there really is no reason why he would be at first anyway.

You’re right, Addinton does say that more than once.  I’ll take out any additional times he says it.  I’ve actually been meaning to, so thanks for reminding me!

I always love suggestions and ideas, Sandra, but this is my story and this is the way I want to tell it.  Your suggestions involve a completely different story, structure, and setup, and would entail a complete rewrite, which I’m not interested in even considering.  The rewrite is pretty much done already and is the same thing as you’ve read with a few corrections, a few extra Flashbacks, and better detail in the finale that Jack really did try and save his wife.

Again, Sandra, thanks so much for taking the time to read and comment here.  Your thoughts are always welcome with me.  Take care.

PS - Love the line about your "emotional orgasm"!  Wish I cold give these out all the time!  Love ya, Sandra!
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Dreamscale
Posted: February 1st, 2011, 2:45pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Sandra, one more thing I wanted to add.

You're definitely correct about the location being a major character here...and in all my serious scripts.

I feel that successful movies that I enjoy have interesting, unique locations/settings/set pieces.  It's a visual thing for me...I enjoy strong visuals in movies.  They add to the reality.  The heighten the read and watch.  They're memorable.

I always write with this in mind.  Sure, any story can take place anywhere, really...but anywhere doesn't always cut it in my book.

Some of my favorite horror movies play up the location to the point where it becomes a main character and adds to the enjoyment of the whole piece.  Hostel's unique location made it what it is.  Same thing for Wolf Creek.  In describing these movies, it always includes the location.  Same thing I try to do with my scripts.

Take care.
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Baltis.
Posted: February 8th, 2011, 1:18am Report to Moderator
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No way in the sam fuck filled in china cups am I about to read back through this section of replies, suggestion, implications and brain shitting to see if I'm touching on or treading on familiar ground.

I have to say, at this point and time, you have got to be the most read writer here on Simplyscripts.  That will have to pay off for you soon.

While off the boards, one of my many stints, I did actually get to read a draft of this -- While away I always tend to, if I'm not banned completely, pop in and check out what a few of the mainstay writers are up to.  This one was no exception.

This draft seems more cohesive and tight -- The formatting is one complaint I've got, though.  Not that it's bad, it just lacks space.  I wish you'd space in between your scenes.  But more importantly your montages/flashbacks -- These need crucial air to breath because sometimes a reader will just feel overwhelmed and trudge down the page hoping to see white and miss the fact a scene isn't even taking place when they think it is.  They then got lost and, depending on your writing clarity, end up confused by your overall cleverness.

I'm going to do 10 points here and then add up the plus' and negatives and see where your scripts comes out.

(-)  1.  There is no space for your script to breath at all.  Ever.  It's overwhelming to flip a page sometimes.  Hell, the script is only 104 pages, with title page included, yet it seemed like a daunting task to read much of it due to this very problematic problem.  I know it sounds strange.  I know you're saying, but spacing out the scenes would result in a longer script, Balt.  It would... But it wouldn't be much more than 2 pages tops, and it wouldn't be as dreadful to read.

(+)  2. Very vivid and imaginative locations and descriptions make me feel alive in the world you've created.

(-)  3.  Somewhat careless and clunky way of handling certain transitions, flashbacks and monologues.  Again, space is important, but here you almost could have gotten around an imposed title for nearly every time you did have one.  "Smash to black" was also not needed.

It is perfectly acceptable to write a scene like such


EXT.  CORBIN'S CAR RENTAL - MORNING (BARBADOS, WEST INDIES)


This saves a clunky mess of junky inserts and cleans up everything nice and tight.  It gives the director a suggestion of title cues and overlays opposed to etching it in stone too.  I learned this at during my Stratford courses.

(+) 4. You wrote two leads who I pretty much didn't stand from the get go and you gave me validation all the way through and kept a steady beat.  These characters are who they are.  I am who I am.  You are who you are.  As much as the industry loves to show a personal journey form out of control to reformed on screen, that doesn't happen in reality.  I will always be a prick with a lot of compassion.  That won't change.  I don't care what event comes my way...  I think you captured your characters, who they were, and you ran with it.  Good on you.

(+)  5.  Dialogue was, for the most part, very coheisve.   It kept the scenes together, advanced the story and lent validity to the characters.  There were times when it got wordy or preachy or maybe a bit forced, but you managed to wrangle it all in at seemingly just the right time; right before I started to roll my eyes and start scrolling for the highs.  I think the worst of the worst came with Woodie's phone exchange... It was pretty un-natural.  

"Jack, It's your friend, Woodie"

Don't think so.  He'd know.

Another instance that was dreadful

"Jack, you don't look right.  Been drinking?  Doing lines?"

Agian, I don't think so... Given the circumstances.

(-)  6.  Almost no urgency happens in this script.  Well, not for me it didn't.  I never really got that "It could all blow up and backfire on Jack or Mitch and ultimately Julie."  They never seemed to be in any harm they didn't create or cause themselves.   You had some good foot work going with the Glenvill in the offset that seemed to peter off.  You had a handful of scenes towards page 75 to 90 that stood out -- But it was so sparse at times.

(+) 7.  You cleverly bridged the Mitch ghosting in with a touch of reality.  To me, and I'm taking a stab here, really reminded me of "American Werewolf in London" to a degree... Only one was in ones mind and the other not so much.  

(+)  8.  The reveal towards the end is really bridged well.  I did almost get a chill and loved how overall clever it was.  Might've been done a couple times here and there, but it was done pretty damn flawless here.  Still can't say I liked any of your characters, though.

(-)  9.  So many characters in this one.  I have a ton in Coffin Canyon and nearly 30 in my comedy "YearBook Daze", so I know a thing or two about character development and placement... The thing is there is always going to be that rough ride to weed through the bit players to get to the scene chewers.  I feel you did a nice juggling act for most of it, but were lead away from some of your arcs in favor for exposition.

(+)  10.  7 weeks is what this took... That's saying something because I've seen much worse on tv.  In fact, flip through Netflix current reccomendations and this one easily beats the lifeless corpse of its infastructure with a shitty sock.

6 out of 10

End ressult -- It's the kind of movie you'd see drifting around on a netflix or an on demand and say, why not?  I would.  It's got some polish on it and it's got a story servicible enough to contend with pretty much anything out there right now.  I did kind of get the feeling this one and "Fade To White" were very similar in design, though.  They both follow a certain structure in character and progression .
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: February 8th, 2011, 3:12am Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Quoted from Baltis.

(+) 4. You wrote two leads who I pretty much didn't stand from the get go and you gave me validation all the way through and kept a steady beat.  These characters are who they are.  I am who I am.  You are who you are.  As much as the industry loves to show a personal journey form out of control to reformed on screen, that doesn't happen in reality.  I will always be a prick with a lot of compassion.  That won't change.  I don't care what event comes my way...  I think you captured your characters, who they were, and you ran with it.  Good on you.



I do agree with this. Although, if my input were taken into consideration, it would be as above (the shit that I know, Balt, is too much shit to go into) but I would do it differently. This is not to say that I feel this is wrong; I only offer my contribution to the side of a "potential spin on the story".

Truly though, this is one of the most solidly constructed scripts I've read in awhile. I try and read consistently, but I'm not a "whiz  reader". I think I'm more of a "proofer" in that regard because I tend to mull over word construction a lot at time. Then too, sometimes I get into "skim mode", but neither are effective if left on their own.

All in all, I think that if you take the fact that I'm a very critical reader and it takes a lot to draw me into suspension of disbelief, the fact that I can truly and undoubtedly say that Jeff's script, "Unforgettable" has done just that for me, it means that he has not only created the magic of the craft, but he's perfected it.

I recommend this script as a read and I recommend this script as a movie. I can honestly say that, yes, I would go see this and that's something because as some people might have gleaned here: I'm not an obsessive "movie goer". I'm very critical of the time I spend in front of a "passive screen" and thus:

If you can draw me in and keep my attention AND get a good review, then...

You must have done something right.

And Jeff, I honestly know that you have.

God bless,

Sandra





A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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leitskev
Posted: February 17th, 2011, 9:27pm Report to Moderator
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Just finished reading this. I have not read any other comments, as there are many pages of them. I suspect a lot of people did not care for the ending, but I must say I actually liked it. There is a sentimental darkness to it that you don't usually find, and the change is refreshing.

When reading it, it took me a while to get into a rhythm because of the flashbacks, but that, I suppose, is the nature of flashbacks, which are experienced much more smoothly in a film than in the read. But I eventually got used to it, and the story picked up pace later as well.

The writer is experienced, so no need to comment on the descriptions or dialogues. They worked out well.

I will just discuss from my notes on the story itself, and no doubt I am probably repeating what others have pointed out.

First, it seems to me that as soon as Jack showed up beat up and reported his wife missing, the police would have called all of the hotels. It would have been easy to find where they were staying, and the cops would have checked right away. I don't think this impacts the story much, accept that if others watching the film think the same, they might be annoyed.

Second, the Vegas flashback. I have to be honest. This one actually made me stop reading for a couple days. I am glad I came back to the story, but I have problems with this scene. In a story that is mostly flashback, not sure if this one was needed. Also, not sure if the scene itself makes sense. The girls give the guys sex, then have their friends come over, unarmed, to...rob them? Or just forcefully join the party? Or they were prostitutes that had their pimps come in...unarmed...after they partied with the guys a while? I don't know, just didn't seem likely to me. Also, Jack and Mitch are professional guys with good careers; I doubt they would react by robbing the thugs. They would call security and probably get a few more free nights or free chips.

Third, the cave scene was an extremely long flashback. Not sure if that is an issue or not. I guess not. But I would be careful about having black guys saying "My boys like white girls like you." Also the "hung like a fuckin horse...rip the little pussy up." I am not politically correct, and fully understand these are just meant to be bad guys, but certainly most people that make movies are pretty PC. The same effect could be created here with more subtle language. Also in the cave, I think the guys would have robbed Jack before they dealt with raping Julie, at least Morris would have moved right away on that.

When I was reading the cave scene, I was wondering if it was all a set up by Woodie, created for Jack and with Jack to impress Julie. But that didn't make sense, so I was really trying to figure out what Woodie was going to do. I never did figure it out, other than just following them. I probably am missing something that I should be getting.

I figured out ahead of time that Mitch was dead. Some nice clues were dropped. What I was left wondering was this: was Mitch a ghost, or a figment of Jack's imagination created by his conscience in order to lead Jack to the bodies, and in order to remember what happened consciously? Not sure if there is an answer to that question, and it might be better if there is not, if it was left to the viewer to wonder.

Glad I came back and finished the story. Enjoyed it more as it progressed. I think most stories start out good then lose steam. This one picked up second half. I think the Vegas flashback was my only real problem. I am not sure what the purpose of it was, except to maybe establish more suspicion about the character of Mitch. I think there could be alternative ways to do that, or maybe even a reformulation of the Vegas scene would work.

Ok, that was my 2 cents. My field of expertise is making drinks, so helped the best I could! Cheers.
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Dreamscale
Posted: February 17th, 2011, 10:12pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Balt, thanks so much for reading and the feedback.  Totally appreciated.  Not only do I respect your opinion, I come right out and ask you for it.  Thanks, brother.

Sorry for the delay..finally moved in to my new place in Phoenix.  Still a shitload to unload and find a home for.  Feels great to be abck though.

I don’t know about the “most read writer” here, but I appreciate the sediment.  Wish it could pay off…I mean wish it Will pay off soon!  Ha…


I will be correctly spacing the Slugs on my next and last rewrite.  I hear ya, man, I really do.  I do tend to try and pack in literally as much as I can, and I plead guilty on the charge.

Glad you liked the locals and descriptions.  Makes me feel good, cause I definitely shoot for that.

Not sure if you’re talking about SUPERS or Slugs here.  I don’t think I used too many SUPERS, but I do go for very detailed, exact Slugs.  When I use a SUPER, IMO, it’s something that needs to be conveyed right away to both readers, and more importantly, viewers.  Can’t help myself…

Yeah, you’re not alone in not liking my leads.  That surprises me, but I do understand.  As you say, they are who they are and I’m glad you get that and appreciate it.  Thanks.

Cool…glad the dialogue worked for you.  I do tend to spend a lot of time with early rewrites on dialogue until I’m happy with it.  Just to reply to the 2 examples you didn’t like…

1)     I see it as Woodie showing his darker side…maybe a wrylie would actually help in this instance.  I don’t know…
2)     Funny you don’t like that line…I actually really like it.  I don’t know…under the circumstances, I like it…remember, in that Flashback, Mitch hadn’t seen or spoken to Jack on the island.  First meeting face to face on the trip.



Not sure exactly what you mean with the lack of urgency, unless you’re talking about the fact that Jack didn’t seem to really attempt to do too much to figure out what happened and where Jules was.  Remember though that the present day story line only took place over 1 day…less, actually.

Mitch was a ghost, and no, I wasn’t thinking of American Werewolf in London.  Glad you liked how it was all tied together in the end.

I don’t know, are there really a lot of characters?  I don’t think so.  We’ve got Jack and Mitch as our leads, and Addinton and Glenville as our 2ndery characters.  I do name everyone and I do like a big cast so more peeps can get killed, show nice cans, or just plain old cause deception and add to the possibilities.  I really never thought about there being lot of characters, but now that you mention it, there are a good number.

Cool, yeah, 7 weeks…I was really happy with it, actually.

I’ll take any positives out of 10 any day of the week, and 6 is cool with me.  Thanks.  Glad you liked it overall.  It does share some common structure with Fade.  Wait till you get a load of my new script!

Thanks again, Balt.  Anytime you want some feedback, let me know.  Take care, man!

Revision History (1 edits)
ghost and_ghostie gal  -  February 19th, 2011, 9:45pm
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Dreamscale
Posted: February 19th, 2011, 9:44pm Report to Moderator
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Sandra, my dear Sandra…thank you so much for all the kind and positive words!  It really makes me feel good when something I write moves someone.

You know how critical I am as well, and I really do always try my best to practice what I preach, and I’m a stickler for details.  I did spend a lot of time on the basics here…just getting everything to flow together and make sense in every way, from every angle.

Thank you so much..and I seriously mean that and respect your opinion.  It means a lot to me.  Let me know if I can help out in any way with anything you have in the works.
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Dreamscale
Posted: March 9th, 2011, 11:00pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Kev, so sorry for the long delay in getting back with you.  A big move and the OWC chewed me up.

Thanks, man, for reading and providing all this great feedback.  I really appreciate it, and as always, I’m going to respond to your comments.

Oh yeah, Congrats on your strong OWC showing…very impressive!

Actually, I think people did like the ending.  I’m glad you did as well.  I’m all about change and I always try to do some things differently with my general stories or plots.  I like things simple in terms of the big picture, but intricate and different, in the small picture, or details.  Glad that showd through.

Everyone seemed to think it was a troublesome read in getting into a rhythm.  As I’ve said before, I honestly believe that in a filmed version, it would play well.  There are movies with this feel, and IMO, they aren’t hard to follow and understand.  And, as you say, once you get used to it…and that this is the way it’s going to be, it becomes easier.  I knew doing it this way was different and irritating to some, but I kind of liked how it started flowing and decided it was definitely the way it was going to go.

Cool, glad the descriptions and dialogue worked for you.  I did spend quite a bit of time on the dialogue and research on the visuals (I did spend 8 nights on Barbados awhile back), so I kind of used memories along with research to fill things in.

Well, in terms of the cops just calling all the hotels to see where they were staying, keep in mind they weren’t staying at a hotel, as many people don’t on the island.  It’s also an island and things work differently (and there are A LOT of places to stay)…not as easy as just doing it and expecting immediate info.

Ah, the Vegas Flashback…yes…one of my personal faves, actually.  I knew this could be a problem, and it does play out quite long, but I really liked it, and was happy to hear a few others did as well.  Here’s the deal with it and why it’s here (other than to spice things up quickly and provide some action in a cool locale)…So I think this starts around Page 27 or so.  IMO, I really needed some action and this came up.  It’s really the only extended scene in which we see Jack and Mitch together, as friends.  It’s definitely a character building scene…whether you like what you see in them or hate them for who they are…or were.  It’s my way of making it clear that this is Jack and Mitch’s story when it comes down to it.

It also gives us some history as to why they are who they are now and why they do what they do in certain situations.  Sure, we see that they enjoy to party with booze, coke, women, gambling…you name it…yeah, this is who they are and IMO, they’re not all that different from a lot of guys with the same means.

It shows us that they don’t just lie down when confronted.  They not only fight back, but they kick some ass and take names…and other things as well.  Some people said they didn’t believe Jack would fight in the cave…that he’d just give up his money and whimper home.  No way, not who he is.  When the dudes burst in, he immediately threw a punch and brought it on.  That’s who he is.

But I also got to use my favorite piece of dialogue in this scene as well…Alexis’ line 2 pages later when she joins Jack in the shower.  HaHa…sorry, but sometimes I crack myself up.

BTW, here’s the deal…Alexis and Amy are hookers/call girls/pros.  Mitch hooked up the deal at the blackjack table…Jack was completely unaware.  It was basically the best man giving his buddy an early Bachelor’s party main gift, if you will.  The dudes, Nick and Joe are with the girls…cal them their partners.  They do this sort of shit now and then and thought Jack and Mitch were easy marks as they were obviously hammered, had money and were on a Bachelor party weekend.  They didn’t think they needed to be armed…or maybe they were?  Jack jumped him pretty quick and things didn’t go quite as planned for the dudes.  Why did Mitch take the watches and money?  Again, that’s who he is.  The same guy who cheats with his best friend’s wife.  Call security?  They’ve got blow everywhere, just had sex with 2 hookers, and probably aren’t looking for any of this info to be public knowledge.  In a weird way, kind of all foreshadowing, actually, I don’t know.


The cave scene…love it.  Yeah, it’s meant to be brutal and ugly and I used that dialogue because of that…and because of who these thugs are.  They’re animals.]

No, Woodie had nothing to do with what went down in the cave.  The cave scene is where Jack got all beat up, and had a lot to do with his amnesia, along with him just going stark raving mad as well.

Mitch was indeed a ghost that only Jack could see.  Yeah, Mitch is there to lead Jack back to what he did…not let him forget what he did.

Glad you liked it, Kev.  I say this a lot, and I’ll say it again…I always try and backload my scripts and probably always will.  IMO, a script/movie needs to finish strong to work over all.  It’s easy to forget things that didn’t work when you’re left with something powerful.

Thanks again, man.  Totally appreciate the feedback.
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GirlO
Posted: March 10th, 2011, 8:05am Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff,

your scripts have so much feedback on them! It’s hard to know if anything new can brought into the picture. Initially I was going to just post a paragraph summary when I saw how much feedback was already here, but I’d already written these notes out, so your getting them!
A lot will probably be covered. I’ve only flicked through a couple of reviews and it seems that way. Ignore/don’t worry everything old and beaten to death, that seems idiotic, not your thang…I’ll probably have a flick through of a couple of your replies to ppl now, anyway. Figure out some stuff for myself  

Montage:
Won’t we see from the opening montage that they are both men? Or how will you keep it ambiguous – non gender specific clothing? Also with the kayaking scene won’t you see their faces? Even if the actors were made to wear a cap/helmet? It guess it works when read, but on screen? And if we are going to see it’s the two buddies from the outset, then why have the montage at the end?
Also, what was the point? I’m sure you had one, but it just didn’t come across clearly to me. The opening montage seemed cheesy and the ending one didn’t seem to sit well with the tone of the script? This isn’t supposed to sound rude, but is actually a genuine question – who cares if Jack and Mitch sky dived together? Kayaked? Etc? I just don’t get their purpose in relation to the bigger picture.

Opening - Flashbacks. A lot. Wow.  A little sudden at first, but I’m starting to settle into them.

Pg 16 - The shorter flashbacks – like on Pg 16 read like a bit of a pain in the ass, but I can see these playing out well on screen. The flashback on Pg 16/17 almost takes up a page, but it would play out in what? Twenty seconds? As it’s mostly scene setting/description. I have a feeling these word work there way onto the screen seamlessly when viewed, instead of read. Little disjointed tidbits from his past. We find out things as he does.. It makes sense to take advantage of flashbacks when focusing on anyone who is struggling with their memories, past, anything with this type of subject matter.

I have a bit of an issue with Addinton, who I think could have been developed  mor, since you want him to have a bigger part in this?  Other than his mother there are really no distinct character traits about him or anything that’s really of interest.
Make the scenes with his mum more conflicting for him if you’re going to go through all that trouble of including her, and making their story a decent chunk of the overall story.  Could his mother be having issues with her will? Could Addinton be trying to convince her to reconcile with another son? Maybe even her and Addinton haven’t spoken in years and this is where he has to take the step and patch things up? I don’t know. All just random food for thought. He’s just too much of a good/perfect guy.  And there’s nothing really going on behind the scenes. It would only take something small, I think.
Also, Addinton’s dialogue, especially in relation to his mum, is far too artificial. Just feel that aspect this 1 dimensional/underplayed so far, and therefore lets the script down. The other way to go would be to tone down/condense her and Addinton’s parts a little/ make him more a minor character, then this wouldn’t stand out as much?


Vegas - Vegas flashback was good not only because of the length but because it expanded their characters and gave us insight into their relationship.

Alexis ‘baby pussy’ dialogue didn’t do anything for me. Felt too porno/artificial. Also Jack’s ‘what the’…I’m not a guy, but I can’t say that if I stepped into a shower naked, surprising a guy, that that I would expect that to be his first reaction. Something more like: Damn. Or a dum struck look, or silence then the two of them start kissing. Naked girls = good.
Who the f*** were the guys that showed up? (These are all rhetorical questions by the way Don’t need to answer them) the two of them seemed to come out of nowhere. No explanation of who they were/what they wanted.

Pg 21 - I cracked up at the ‘big surprise’ flashback by the pool. Could it be written more clearly to convey the tone of the scene? I couldn’t tell if Jack was joking around, and Julie’s response seems a harsh/abrupt thing to say with no response from Jack? Does he at least look upset…or?


Pg 42 – Jacks dialogue response to the cop saying he thought Jack had blocked out the death sounds stilted. Would he say those things he’s feeling to a stranger? I don’t think so.

Pg 54 – Addinton suggests that maybe Woddie had her killed and Jack beat up – what motivation do they think Woodie would have to get/beat up Jack?

Pg 55 – Glenville’s “there’s something we didn’t see coming.” I did.  I suspected Mitch of cheating early on, but it’s good that you kept us guessing/never really quite knew if he was the killer or not.

I don’t know how I feel about this one. At times, the flashbacks and sudden surge of recollection on Jack’s part felt so convenient like ‘cue the exposition,’ but at times they felt like a real part of the story/parrell story.
I’m a little conflicted I may need to sleep on this one.
For the most part it was relevant buildup and action happening in either one of the timelines.
Although I’m fine with Jack not being the most active guy, I still think if he took things into his hands a couple of times, (eg. tried to find woodie earlier, instead of waiting for him to call?/ done some digging into the wear abouts of his wife/whatever) then it would play out better on screen. As it is, it may be like watching him close his eyes every five seconds to reminisce and only taking an active part in things when the cops are present/initiate it.

Pg 72, 3 – Julie acts like a bitch on the phone and when they meet. I’m surprised there’s been no talk so far about her being hesitant to go on the trip in the first place, or no real reaction from Jack regarding her behaivour.

Pg 75 – ‘Jesus, Jules, what’s with you?’ – I agree. About time he asked.

Pg 82 – wouldn’t of minded a sentence about Morris earlier on. Just something about seeing him around the resort/wherever they were staying. Would make it more plausible, to me, that they would go with him, then. Maybe even in the short scene he just works past eyeing up Julie, gives her the creeps. I don’t know. Something seemingly insignificant.

Pg 83 – I’ve accepted all the nudity/sex so far as being relevant to the story, but having Julie’s shirt ripped open, exposing her breasts, feels far to close to just having Glenville greeted by the topless woman. (can’t remember her name….) I think the scenario with Glenville needs to go.

Pg 84 – I like Morris’s half uttered line here. Funny.

Pg 86 – Yeah. This scene would be sufficient nudity from these two, without the prior scene I mentioned.

Pg 90…ok do these really need to be naked, again?  This mention feels gratuitous. Does nothing for story value/even entertainment.  This two second scene also feels unnecessary. Their scene on 93 – better and really the only one needed between these two.

Pg 95 – dialogue needs some work. Feels unnatural.

Pg 97 – Jack’s dialogue – ouch…The first para of his is more powerful on it’s own. Yeah, BUDDY…God.  Good stuff.

Pg 98 – not sure how I feel about Jack raising the shaft, almost knocking Julie one, even if he didn’t end up being the killer. He loves her, and I know people do crazy things in these situations, but I don’t know…just a small thing.

Pg 100 – Jack’s use of the word ‘Buddy’ feels strange here.

Ok. So I just finished. My overall impression of the ending was varied. I liked how you wrapped everything up, made the timeline meet. But I don’t like Jack suddenly became a raving lunatic and decided to kill the first officer, then lunge at the second. It would have been more poignant for him to go out quietly with you ‘Unforgettable’ playing in the background, not suddenly turn all serial killer on everyone? Because I actually liked his character until then. I don’t know if this is bad though, as I often leave movies thinking WTF at the end. Still…I guess he was coked up…

Overall, I don’t know how I feel about this one. At times, the flashbacks and sudden surge of recollection on Jack’s part felt waaay too convenient like ‘cue the exposition’, but at times they felt like they progressed and unfolded naturally.
I’m a little conflicted I may need to sleep on this one.
Although I’m fine with Jack not being the most active guy, I still think if he took things into his hands a couple of times, (tried to find woodie earlier, instead of waiting for him to call?/ attempted to locate Julie’s whereabout/whatever) then it would play out better on screen. As it is, it may be like watching him close his eyes every five seconds to reminisce and only taking an active part in things when the cops are present/initiate it.

Simple story line. A little cliché with the best-friend-wife scenario, but I see you put your spin on it. What’s cool is the thought that’s gone in to plot/pacing this out in only 7 weeks. Maybe this is a rewrite? I don’t know. Still a solid effort, either way.

So, that’s all I can think of. I think it’s WAAAAY more than likely I’ve covered old ground here. But you’ve got far too many posts on this for me to read through em all.  These are all just my opinions, of course (Though It would have taken a whole extra page up if I mentioned that every 2 seconds. ) I even learned something from this! haha
Ok. Toss what you will. It’s all good.  I tend to ramble, and sometimes come off as a bitch… I’m not   I’m pretty sure I enjoyed this. I’ll know in the morning…

Key to My Heart (is that the correct title?) I couldn’t find it. Although, I don’t really have the whole search thing down yet.

Naomi

Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
GirlO  -  March 10th, 2011, 3:08pm
Copy and paste too many times...like waaay.
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Dreamscale
Posted: March 11th, 2011, 1:22pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Naomi, welcome aboard the SS Cruise Line!  Hope you enjoy your time here.

Thanks so much for the read and feedback.

All notes and different perspectives are appreciated.

Montage – Although it “could” be very easy to see that they’re both men in the opening montage, it also doesn’t have to be even possible, based on how it’s filmed.  I believe very strongly in reading exactly what’s written in a script…nothing more, and nothing less.  If the sex isn’t given of a character, IMO, you have to assume you won’t know in a filmed version either.  I think there are numerous angles that can be used to conceal one’s identity, as well as distance away from the camera.  Keep in mind that all the scenes in the montage are ones that involve “special” clothing, which can and does conceal one’s identity.

The bookend montage at the end simply clarifies the details of the opening montage and shows you that what you thought you were watching (Jack and Julie) was actually Jack and Mitch.  This is to show once and for all, in case you didn’t get it during the read or view, that this is Jack and Mitch’s story.  Julie is a secondary character, and although her disappearance is at the center of the story, her character itself doesn’t come into play too much.

Yep, a lot of Flashbacks…and even a few more now in the rewrite, believe it or not!  They tend to get easier to digest once you realize they’re going to be consistent.

Why do you say the shorter Flashbacks read like a pain in the ass, but would play out well in a filmed version?  I don’t understand.  Not sure which 1 page Flashback you’re referring to on Page 16/17…I don’t see one.

I do think these Flashbacks, however long they are, will play out well enough onscreen and not be an issue.

I’m really surprised you have an issue with Addinton not being developed enough.  IMO, he’s a very strong and developed secondary character.  He’s got an actual life full of emotions, and he’s also full of character traits and personality that are unique to him in this script.  This really bums me out, as I really like Addinton…and others have agreed.

I’m also surprised you thought Addinton’s dialogue was weak and/or artificial.  He speaks proper British influenced English Bajan.  He is well mannered, and maybe that’s why you say his dialogue sounds artificial.  To me, it sounds pretty spot on, based on my limited experience with the Bajan culture.

Cool, glad you liked the Vegas Flashback.  It’s hit and miss, it seems, probably due to its length and the fact that some don’t see its relevance.  I’m actually glad someone actually commented on Alexis’ “baby pussy” dialogue.  I love it, actually, and I guess it kind of plays like an inside joke, but I couldn’t resist throwing it in here.  Keep in mind that Alexis is a Pro, so dialogue like this isn’t at all out of the ordinary (of course, not that I’d know or anything like that from experience…).  Surprised jack’s “What the…” line didn’t feel real.  He is quite wasted and quite surprised by Alexis’ entrance…it’s not at all that he wasn’t happy about this, but again, he told Mitch earlier not to get him in trouble, so…

The 2 guys who showed up out of nowhere were partners with Alexis and Amy, and were there to rob them.  I really didn’t want to spell any of this out.

Glad the ‘big surprise’ flashback worked for you.  I cracked up over that one as well.  Yeah, Jack is not happy with Julie’s reaction.  I thought it was clear, but maybe it’s not.  I’ll give it a look.

Yeah, I agree with you, I’ll fix up the dialogue on Page 42.  Good catch!

They think Jack owed Woodie money or that Woodie was extorting Jack.  This whole dialogue exchange is basically gone now in the rewrite anyways.

Mitch being the other man really wasn’t supposed to be kept much of a secret.  I kind of left it as something people would think they figured out, which then means the real secret and twist comes off as more of a shock…hopefully!

You’ll have to let me know how you feel about ti now that you’ve (hopefully) slept on it a few days.

Julie’s character has been fleshed out a bit in the beginning in the rewrite. She’s a much more likable character and loving wife now, until it becomes clear she’s cheating.


As for Morris, he’s merely a caver…and a conniver.  Keep in mind that jack and Julie are staying at a villa, not a resort.  They’re on their own, doing their own thing.  There are numerous things to do on the island, like Harrison’s Cave, Welchman Hall Gully, etc, but it’s not like you may be envisioning.  I don’t have any interest in expanding Morris’ character.

Sorry you feel Julie’s shirt being ripped open is too much.  Just trying to show the brutal reality of this horrific scene.  It’s ugly…and it’s supposed to be ugly.  This is not meant to be gratuitous eye candy nudity.  It’s depraved, it’s ugly, and it’s supposed to hit hard.

Shauntee’s nudity is exactly what it appears to be…gratuitous eye candy nudity…of the island variety, which we don’t see too often.

The finale has been rewritten with a few significant changes.  It’s apparent that jack really try and save Julie, and the raised shaft stuff is gone.  He does love her indeed and he realizes for an instant what he’s done, but then loses it again quickly.

Yeah, Jack lost it in the end…and yes, he was all coked up and the sum of everything drove him over the edge.

Exactly correct - Simple story line, with my spin on it, and because of that, for me at least, it loses its simplicity.  Thanks, yeah, this is the actual 7 week script.  It has been rewritten and the final rewrite will be taking place soon.
So let me know your final thoughts when you get a chance, Naomi.  Thanks again!
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Dressel
Posted: April 6th, 2011, 5:07pm Report to Moderator
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Jeff,

Started reading your script.  Approximately half way through, and I have to stop for now so I thought I'd jot down my thoughts.

Your writing is top-notch, no real complaints there.  It's always refreshing to sit down and read a script and know you don't have to worry about typos, bad grammar, formatting errors, etc.  I'm sure I don't need to tell you that though.

So, sad to say, the story just isn't really working for me up to this point.  And I think, when you boil it down, it's because you're not really allowing the story to breathe all that much; with the insane number of flashbacks you employ.  I was actually hesitant to read your script because of your logline, because I kind of assumed it was going to be like this; that is, flashback after flashback.  It's just too much.  Too much exposition that doesn't allow the core of your story to breathe.  I don't really have time to care much about Julie's disappearance because I'm always being whisked away, out of the present.  You might think that the flashbacks are enhancing your story (and who knows, I'm probably in the minority), but they're hurting it for me.  

It's a little difficult to critique which flashbacks work and which ones don't (because several seem superfluous), because I haven't reached the end.  I'm sure, like in most movies that follow this formula, a lot of the flashbacks will end up playing a bigger role in the end.

Oh, and in regards to not really caring about Julie being gone: that's a problem too.  I don't really feel a sense of urgency, panic or danger.  Everyone seems kind of...laid back about this whole thing.  I know Jack's dealing with memory loss and all that, but none of his memories seem to effect him all that much.  He just seems kind of stoic the whole way through.

Random Notes Along the Way

p.11 - "I'll never forget it." - A little too on the nose

p.13 -"Yes she did, man." -  The "man" at the end seems too informal/awkward

p.13 - Lose the comma after "Good day, Mr. Benton" and make it a period.

p.19 - Lose the "s" after Jack at the bottom

p.29 - "You wanna eat my baby pussy?" -  I assume that's a typo?

p.35 - "Where are you, man?" - Awkward/informal

-It just occurred to me that the flashbacks MIGHT be confusing when they're played out on the screen.  The age difference is so minimal that there's really no way to tell which ones come first.

--
p.41- Why is it that Jack just NOW remembers about his son's death, with just ONE person reminding him?

I guess I just don't buy this whole premise - that his memory keeps coming back at the most opportune moments.  What kind of memory problem functions like this?

--

So that's it for right now.  I don't really know if you'll take my criticisms to heart because the flashbacks are SO engrained in the story, but it's just my two cents.  It's just not really my type of movie.


CHECK OUT MY WEB SERIES

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Dreamscale
Posted: April 6th, 2011, 5:27pm Report to Moderator
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I hear ya, Matt.  Sorry it's not working for you.

There are a shitload of Flashbacks for sure, and I knew some would have a problem with them.

I'm heading out for the evening and will get back to your feedback when you're all done with the script.

Thanks for giving it a look.  I appreciate it!
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leitskev
Posted: April 6th, 2011, 6:57pm Report to Moderator
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One thing that I am sure has been discussed here, but it's worth mentioning because it comes into play in so many aspects, is the difference between a readable script and one that will make a good film. Everyone knows that a script needs to be readable, at the same time it needs to be a blueprint, and that those two aspects pull at each other.

This script, especially early in it, is very hard to read because of the Flashes. Would look different on film though.

I'm not suggesting how to resolve that problem. And it comes into play in other areas. I think sometimes writers take a liberty or two with format in order to enhance the read, and I think they should. Before it can be a blueprint, it has to be read and hopefully enjoyed, or appreciated.

Matthew, after you get through the flashes here, about midway, the story picks up steam. And I think there's only one flash in the second half. Plus the ending is a little outside of the box, which I think you'll like.
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Dreamscale
Posted: April 7th, 2011, 12:09pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Matt, I think you know I always try to respond in detail to feedback I receive, so here goes…

Appreciate the compliments on the writing.  I do always strive for perfection and try to practice what I preach.  Glad it shows here.

As I’ve said many times, I totally understand how some, or even many will have a problem with the sheer number of Flashbacks, and the jolt they deliver while reading.  I want to throw a few things out there that may or may not help or even make sense.

What we have here is basically 2 stories, told in 2 different timelines.  We have the current timeline story, which begins as soon as Jack is found bloody and beaten.  In this story, Jack and the rest of the cast tries to figure out what happened to him and his missing wife.  And then, we have the details of what actually happened earlier in the week, told through Flashbacks from Jack’s perspective, as his memory slowly returns.  Finally, at the end, both stories merge and come to a conclusion.  All the other Flashbacks from Jack’s past are merely characterization that hopefully helps make sense of the whos, the whats, and the whys of what’s happening…and what happened.

You’re not alone in not caring for Julie.  As I told you, there are a few scenes that still haven’t made it into the final draft, and they’re all basically involving her, in hopes of building her character a bit.  But, the focus isn’t on Julie, really.  This is Jack’s story, and if you don’t care for him either, well, you’re probably not going to care, period.

Won’t comment on the Flashbacks in detail until you’ve finished.

Random Notes Along the Way

p.11 - "I'll never forget it." - A little too on the nose – Yeah, I hear you.  Kind of playing to the title and overall theme of amnesia and memories in general.

p.13 -"Yes she did, man." -  The "man" at the end seems too informal/awkward – Going for a certain tone with the Bajan dialect, which will work for some and not for others, I think.  They are a formal people, yet a laid back type in the same breath.

p.13 - Lose the comma after "Good day, Mr. Benton" and make it a period. – I agree.  Good catch.

p.19 - Lose the "s" after Jack at the bottom – WOW!  Another great catch.  How’d I miss that in all my reads?  Damn, nice, Matt. Thanks!

p.29 - "You wanna eat my baby pussy?" -  I assume that's a typo? – HaHa…no, actually, it’s not.  It’s my favorite line!   It’s kind of an inside joke with me, but it originated in an old, early 80’s porn flick, and it never left my mind.  I thought this was a perfect time to use it.  It doesn’t seem to be working for most…

p.35 - "Where are you, man?" - Awkward/informal – Same deal with your earlier concern of the use of “man” in the Bajan dialect.

-It just occurred to me that the flashbacks MIGHT be confusing when they're played out on the screen.  The age difference is so minimal that there's really no way to tell which ones come first. – In a filmed version, it will be very clear because of different clothing and completely different settings.  I think it will also be obvious the way they are set up…as in something brings the memories on.

--
p.41- Why is it that Jack just NOW remembers about his son's death, with just ONE person reminding him? – Not sure if you’ve gotten to it yet, but it’s made clear that jack blocked this out completely…the human mind works in strange ways.  Why is it coming back to him now, all of a sudden?  Cold be due to the trauma he went through which caused him to forget the most recent events of his wife disappearing.

I guess I just don't buy this whole premise - that his memory keeps coming back at the most opportune moments.   What kind of memory problem functions like this?  It’s something you’ll have to buy into for it to work.   Memory problems/amnesia work in many ways, and there are many different types.  Each individual handles things differently. I actually did a good amount of research on the subject, even consulting with a psychologist and a medical doctor (at Swedish Hospital, in Seattle).

Hopefully, things improve for you in the 2nd half.  Thanks for the read, Matt!
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Dressel
Posted: April 7th, 2011, 1:00pm Report to Moderator
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Jeff,

Finished the script and...it's really just not for me.  It basically continued at the same pace and I continued to have the same problems with it.  I didn't really care for the characters, the mystery, anything.  And like I said before, the flashbacks were just too daunting and took away from any thrill the script might have.  The script wasn't as much about a character uncovering a mystery (finding clues, etc), as much as just waiting to have the next flashback, which would always conveniently give him the right amount of information when he needed it.

This seems to have worked for some people (although a lot seem to be complaining about the abundance of flashbacks), but it didn't work for me.

-Matt


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Dreamscale
Posted: April 7th, 2011, 1:03pm Report to Moderator
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OK, Matt.  Sorry you didn't get into it.

Thanks for the read anyways.

Take care.
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rc1107
Posted: May 30th, 2011, 12:47am Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff.

Lol.  I can't wait til you post a new feature so I have a better chance of being one of the first 50 people to respond.  Needless to say, I didn't read through every post, but I did scan through them and got the gist of everything that's been beaten to death (like the flashbacks, which I didn't mind.), and hopefully, I'll have something new to add that didn't grab anybody else's attention.

First off, before I get to my notes while I was reading, I'll say that I did really like the story and it was a great example of excellent pacing.  Even with the large amount of flashbacks, the scenes were snappy enough to keep the story going at a furious pace for me, making me want to read what was going to happen next.  (Although I did do a very good job of guessing.)

All right, so onto the notes:


-  Pgs. 12 and 13  -  Don't know if I like Addinton actually being brought to tears about his mother before he's about to inquire about a case.  It seems like he would've dealt with that issue before even meeting with Sandiford.  In fact, if Addington's mother or her situation is going to come into play later (like I think it will), it might be better off if Addinton meets Sandiford in his mother's room.  That way, we'll see for ourselves his mom is sick and I think Addinton's more likely to have his tears come out actually in her presense.  Just a thought, though.

     (Note:  After reading on, found out his mother does come into play later.)

-  Does Addinton really need permission to check Jack's credit card transactions?  Or is he just being polite?

Which brings up an interesting topic I'd like to mention.  I think ALL of your characters have been too polite with each other so far, and I've come to notice in a lot of your dialogue (not just this story, either), you put a lot of your own personal good manners in your characters, and it's starting not to ring true in their voice.  

Especially with Jack on page 13 and his answers to being questioned.  He's in a very confused state, so would he really answer with "Of course not", "That's all I can remember now, I'M AFRAID", "Of course", "Perfect.  Thank you", and another "Of course".  And Addington even says "Of course" somewhere in there, too.  You can make the case that Jack is just superfriendly, but so far, all of the characters have had the same polite mannerisms.  And all of the characters having that same exact mannerism just rings false to me.

     (Note:  Reading on, every character has multiple examples of super politeness.  While I still think the dialogue is a strength in this story, it would still make it all that much better if every character didn't sound the same in that manner.)

-  Something's not jiving right about Mitch.  There's something wrong here.

     (Note:  I think too much is given away about Mitch too early.  Having him actually show up at the hospital and talk Mitch into leaving would hide your intentions with him a little bit longer so his character could develop a little more without us being suspicious of him from the get-go.)

-  More politeness and even more politeness, still!  And in a police station, at that!  This is starting to cross into a Fantasy Sci-Fi of the perfect Utopian people if I were just reading the dialogue and not the descriptions.

-  Pg 31  -  Lol.  A nice little homage to 'Pulp Fiction' there, with the 'hand cannon' reference, plus how Julie is sometimes referred to as Jules.

-  Pg 34  -  No question mark after 'You see patients just take off like this'

-  Pg 41  -  You say the Mercedes locks its tires up, which implies to me it tries to stop.  Then, later, Jack says they never even tried to stop.

-  Pg 46  -  'Ah, the plot thickens.'    -    LOL.  That line is just a huge pet peeve of mine and I hate it.  It's 1,000 times worse than ever putting a 'we see' in a description.  It always pulls me right out of the story when I see it and it actually makes me realize I'm reading instead of being involved in the story.  (And I was involved.)  I know the plot thickened!  I read it myself!  I don't need it reinforced that the story has just gotten another layer of mystery added to it!  Lol.  Instead of writing:

                                   ADDINTON
                      Ah, the plot has thickened.

You might as well have written:

                                   JEFF BUSH
                      Ah, the plot has thickened.

It pulled me out of the story just as easily.


-  Pg. 50  -  'Aright then'    -    Should be either 'Alright' or 'All right'.  Or, if he's talking ghetto, it should be   a'ight    or if he's talking thug, it should be    a'ite    (Not that Addington sounds thug to me, or anything.  Just sayin', yo.)

-  Pg. 51  -  I doubt that the cops would encourage Jack and Mitch to perform their own investigation in the first place, especially knowing now about Jack's instability and drug addiction and them wondering why Mitch is trying to avoid them in the first place.

     (Note:  This is where I figured out that Mitch didn't exist.  I didn't know exactly in what capacity he didn't exist, whether he was a multiple personality of Jack's or just a figment of his imagination, (and I was leaning toward multiple personality because of how Mitch was registered at the hotel or wherever), but I knew he didn't exist at that point.)  (In fact, I really thought what was going to happen was, since besides the cops, there's no one to really root for in this, you'd turn Julie into somebody good because I thought that she was only having an affair with Jack's multiple personality, Mitch.  And we'd feel sorry for her because her death would be in vain, since she was only ever sleeping with her own husband.  That's what I thought was going to happen, anyway.)

-  Pg. 65  -  Lol.  It's been a couple years because I've become more of an online player since then, but I remember $5000 fitting pretty tidy in a managable wad.  I don't think $10,000 would exactly equal a 'mountain' of money piled high on a table.  (Unless the casino paid them off in $20's.  In which case, I'd be pretty pissed.)


     One thing I don't really dig about the story is how easily Jack's memory can be triggered, just by the mention of something.  Usually, if somebody can bury their trauma and retrieve it that easily, then everytime Jack closes a door, he should be remembered of his son.  Not to mention, Addinton sounds like he's smart enough of a cookie to realize this also, and should question Jack all in one setting, rather than taking his time and letting Jack roam around the island doing whatever he wants to do.  Seems a little off to me there.

-  Pg. 92  -  The whole thing between Glenville and Shauntee seems a little too over the top and, although I enjoy it, a bit gratuitous.  But it just doesn't add anything to the story in my opinion, except for some lovely visuals of Rihanna nude.  (I pictured Rihanna in Shauntee's role since she's from Barbados.)


Well, those were my notes I took while I was reading.

Like I said, I did enjoy it, especially the pacing.  I can't call it a white-knuckled page turner since I read it on my computer screen, but I can call it a white-fingered scroller.  (Lol.  I don't know if 'white-fingered scroller' sounds like a compliment to you, but I meant it as one.)

There were just those few problems I mentioned, about his great memory-retrieval considering his amnesia throughout and the 'Ah, the plot thickens'. (lol, the two things that stuck out for me the most.)  But overall, I think this was definately a success, and I'm not speaking only as a 7 week challenge, but as a story in general, no matter if you even had a year to put this together, I still thought it was something worthy and definately something I'd be interested in seeing, especially because I was interested in the location.

- Mark


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Dreamscale
Posted: May 30th, 2011, 2:34pm Report to Moderator
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Mark, thanks so much for the read and review.  Your feedback is much appreciated.

I don’t know why I didn’t send you the revised version…oh well, no big deal, but there are a few minor changes, and 1 is quite important, which I’ll get to after I hear back from you with responses to some questions I have for you.  Anyway, I’ll address your comments and maybe ask you a few more questions to help with the final version, I’m hoping to finish next month.

Cool, glad the pacing worked for you.  There are a few long scenes and I was worried things were moving a little slow early on, but that’s kind of how I set up my scripts…always backloaded.

We’ll see how good a job of guessing you did, when I reveal a few things that you may not have gotten…I’m not sure…should be interesting…


“Pgs. 12 and 13  -  Don't know if I like Addinton actually being brought to tears about his mother before he's about to inquire about a case. “ – I hear ya.  I was trying to show that Addinton is an all around  good guy, and loves his Mum, and is way more than just a cardboard cop.

“Does Addinton really need permission to check Jack's credit card transactions?  Or is he just being polite?” – Well, first of all, he is very polite, and keep in mind that Jack is not under any real suspicion at this point, because there isn’t any evidence of a crime, even.

“Which brings up an interesting topic I'd like to mention.  I think ALL of your characters have been too polite with each other so far, and I've come to notice in a lot of your dialogue (not just this story, either), you put a lot of your own personal good manners in your characters, and it's starting not to ring true in their voice.” – Hmmm, interesting…very interesting.  First of all, the Bajans are a very polite people, of English descent, meaning not only polite, but also very proper.  I spent a week and a half there, and saw this first hand.  They are very friendly, very polite, and very proper.  Now, it’s funny you say that all the characters are too polite, cause everyone else said they thought the characters were all complete unlikable assholes.  Are you only referring to the Bajans, or Jack, Julie, and Mitch, as well?

“Especially with Jack on page 13 and his answers to being questioned.  He's in a very confused state, so would he really answer with "Of course not", "That's all I can remember now, I'M AFRAID", "Of course", "Perfect.  Thank you", and another "Of course".  And Addington even says "Of course" somewhere in there, too.  You can make the case that Jack is just superfriendly, but so far, all of the characters have had the same polite mannerisms.  And all of the characters having that same exact mannerism just rings false to me.”

Again, very interesting, as everyone else hates Jack and does not think he’s a nice guy at all.  I actually like hearing this.  I could change “Of course” to “Sure”.  I’ll check it out.

“(Note:  Reading on, every character has multiple examples of super politeness.  While I still think the dialogue is a strength in this story, it would still make it all that much better if every character didn't sound the same in that manner.)”

I’ll read through it again and see if I agree, but you are right…I like writing nice characters who don’t always do nice things.

“(Note:  I think too much is given away about Mitch too early.  Having him actually show up at the hospital and talk Mitch into leaving would hide your intentions with him a little bit longer so his character could develop a little more without us being suspicious of him from the get-go.)”

Others have also suggested this, but it’s not possible…literally not possible.  I’ll get into why later, as I mentioned earlier, I don’t think you completely understand the situation, even though you think you do, which is something I’m going to ask for your help on, later.  Also, as I’ve said a number of times, it was not my intent to make Mitch out to be an “innocent” character.  The twist I was after is of a different nature.

“More politeness and even more politeness, still!  And in a police station, at that!”

Really?  I don’t see that at all.  But again, these are all Bajans you’re referring to, and this is how they communicate with each other.  There is some playful joking around and some sexual innuendos thrown in with Glenville, Addinton, Shauntee, and even Orlando.

“Pg 31  -  Lol.  A nice little homage to 'Pulp Fiction' there, with the 'hand cannon' reference, plus how Julie is sometimes referred to as Jules.”

I can’t take credit for that, as it was unintentional, but Pulp Fiction is definitely one of my favorite movies.  OK, question for you.  Did the Vegas Flashback work for you and do you understand why it’s in there now that you know the entire story?  Also, how’d you like my favorite line of dialogue of all time, spoken by Alexis in the shower?  Many have asked if it was a typo, and I always tell them it was completely intentional.

“Pg 34  -  No question mark after 'You see patients just take off like this” – Thanks, but already corrected.

“Pg 41  -  You say the Mercedes locks its tires up, which implies to me it tries to stop.  Then, later, Jack says they never even tried to stop.” – Jack didn’t see the actual accident, just the aftermath.  He’s referring to the fact that the driver didn’t stop to see what the damage was, just drove off to escape.

“Pg 46  -  'Ah, the plot thickens.'    -    LOL.  That line is just a huge pet peeve of mine and I hate it.” – Funny, I’ve never heard that before, Mark.  I can tell you’re serious about this, though.  IMO, I really wasn’t trying to tell the readers anything like that, with that line of dialogue, I was merely showing that Addinton has history with Woody.  Hell, I can pull that line out if it’s that offensive.  Glad you brought it up.

“Pg. 50  -  'Aright then” – Damn good catch!  That is a typo and it was undiscovered up until now.  Nice, thanks!

“ Pg. 51  -  I doubt that the cops would encourage Jack and Mitch to perform their own investigation in the first place…” – Good point, but I needed to split them up and this seemed to work best.

“Note:  This is where I figured out that Mitch didn't exist.  I didn't know exactly in what capacity he didn't exist, whether he was a multiple personality of Jack's or just a figment of his imagination, (and I was leaning toward multiple personality because of how Mitch was registered at the hotel or wherever), but I knew he didn't exist at that point.)” – OK, Mark, What do you mean here?  What caused you to think this?  And are you saying after finishing, you still believe this?  More on this later…

“Pg. 65  -  …I don't think $10,000 would exactly equal a 'mountain' of money piled high on a table.  (Unless the casino paid them off in $20's.  In which case, I'd be pretty pissed.)” – HaHa…well, remember, Jack says it’s at least $10,000, and this is not all casino money…this is money they took from Nick and Joe, who were trying to rob them, as well as whatever they won, but I do understand that the visual description is definitely an exaggeration.


“One thing I don't really dig about the story is how easily Jack's memory can be triggered, just by the mention of something.” – Something many have said, as well.  But, now that you know how it all plays out, do you think Jack really had amnesia?  Or do you think he was playing around the whole time, using the amnesia angle to protect himself?  Or maybe a little of each?  

“Pg. 92  -  The whole thing between Glenville and Shauntee seems a little too over the top and, although I enjoy it, a bit gratuitous.  But it just doesn't add anything to the story in my opinion, except for some lovely visuals of Rihanna nude.  (I pictured Rihanna in Shauntee's role since she's from Barbados.)”

DAMNIT, Mark!!!   Others have said the same thing, and I totally do not agree.  I do agree with Rihanna being cast as Shauntee, as she is a total babe.   Here’s what I was after with Shauntee – First of all, I think she’s a great character…she’s hot, she’s funny, she’s cool, and she provides some great T & A of the variety that you rarely see in films.  But more importantly, her character brings a sense of reality and likability to Glenville’s character.  It gives him life outside of just being a cop…he’s got something to live for, and hopefully, you were rooting for him to survive.  And finally, you know me, I’m a fucking stickler for details, and when my storylines converge at the exact time they need to, I make sure there are onscreen reasons why they are converging at that exact time.  Why else wouldn’t Glenville be with Addinton when he arrived at the gully?  And if I can throw out some great, but still classy T &A in doing so, I say damn you all who oppose it!!!  

I’m glad you liked it, Mark, and I appreciate the compliments very much, but I have a sneaky suspicion you didn’t quite get exactly what went down, or the overall theme at play here…maybe I’m wrong, but let’s see.

1)      So, what’s the deal with Mitch?
2)     What’s the deal with Addinton’s Mum and the recurring dragonfly references?
3)     What was the point of the bookended montages?
4)     How did the Vegas Flashback come into play with the Harrison’s Cave scenes?
5)     Did Jack kill anyone in the present time line?  Did he try to kill anyone in the present time line?

Let me know your thoughts, my friend.  I want this all to be clear enough to comprehend, although I think you know a little ambiguity is always my friend.

Thanks again for the great notes and helpful feedback.   Enjoy the Holiday.
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rc1107
Posted: May 30th, 2011, 9:37pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff.

Ahh.  Finally, a chance to sit down and relax for the night.  All right, I'll go down the list from the top.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Now, it’s funny you say that all the characters are too polite, cause everyone else said they thought the characters were all complete unlikable assholes.  Are you only referring to the Bajans, or Jack, Julie, and Mitch, as well?


With the too polite thing, I was mainly referring to the fact that, as I read EVERY character's dialogue, I heard your own personal voice and polite mannerisms in all of them.  (Maybe not so much Julie, as I think you did a good job with her bitchy attitude).  In other words, the way you've written posts and PM's to me, is the same voice I heard all the Bajans' and Jack and Mitch's dialogue in my head.  Maybe I'm just looking at the words too close and how they're used, or maybe it's because I've been honing in explicitly on dialogue myself as of lately, but they all seemed to have that same polite mannerism.  Yes, Jack and Mitch were assholes in their actions, (it took a little while for me to figure out Jack was an asshole), and all your characters have very different personalities, but they still spoke very friendly, and the Bajan's spoke with that same mannerism.  I don't know if that clarifies anything.  It's not anything major in the slightest, I just noticed a lot of your own personal voice in each of the characters.


Quoted from dreamscale
Did the Vegas Flashback work for you and do you understand why it’s in there now that you know the entire story?


I think it did go on a little long, but I think I understand what you were doing, showing that Jack does have it in him to put up a good fight.  And I'm guessing it was to foreshadow the Harrison's Cave scenes, so we didn't see Jack's inner commando just come out of nowhere.


Lol.  As for 'the plot thickens' thing...  I just see that line as not only being an annoying cliche, (I'm sure you've had to see it 100,000 times yourself,) but also a cheap device to try and get a reader to pay closer attention.  That wasn't so much as me telling you that it should be removed, but me just saying what I think of when I see that line.



Quoted from dreamscale
This is where I figured out that Mitch didn't exist.  I didn't know exactly in what capacity he didn't exist, whether he was a multiple personality of Jack's or just a figment of his imagination, (and I was leaning toward multiple personality because of how Mitch was registered at the hotel or wherever), but I knew he didn't exist at that point.)” – OK, Mark, What do you mean here?  What caused you to think this?  And are you saying after finishing, you still believe this?


Ahh, I think I see now why you're not sure if I followed the story or not.  I was very confusing in how I worded the part where I said "This is where I figured out that Mitch didn't exist".  You think that I think that Mitch NEVER EXISTED AT ALL?  Right?

Now, true, while I was reading it, I did think that Mitch NEVER existed.  I thought that was the way you were going to go with Mitch, that he was just a figment of Jack's imagination.  But when I did get to the end, I realized Mitch DID in fact exist and that Jack killed him the same time Julie had died and buried their bodies together, and I realized Jack seeing Mitch in the present was some sort of psychosis he was seeing.

Now, that being said, after I finished reading, that was the way I INTERPRETED the way that the story ended.  Was I right thinking that, or did I really miss something else?

And as for what caused me to think that Mitch wasn't really there with him, like I had told you in a PM and working on a few stories myself about different variations of amnesia, I was looking for anything fishy about a central character not having any communication with any of the other characters.  And when (I think it was Addinton) said something about not ever being able to speak with Mitch, and Mitch purposely avoiding them, alarm bells started echoing in my head.


(And by the way, I've been working with a character named Addington in one of my stories, (inspired by one of my favorite poker players, Crandall Addington), so I'm sorry if I've added any 'g's in Addinton's name that's starting to annoy you.  It's just a habit to put it in there after typing it so many times in my own stuff.)



Quoted from dreamscale
now that you know how it all plays out, do you think Jack really had amnesia?  Or do you think he was playing around the whole time, using the amnesia angle to protect himself?  Or maybe a little of each?


Oh, crap.  This was an element to the story I never did think of.  Maybe I was wrong in my interpretation of the story.  But for what it's worth, I thought Jack really did have amnesia.  (Especially since he's been having problems with it for so many years, why would he pretend around his wife and dad?)  But no, it never even entered into my head once that he could be playing around trying to protect himself.  Even after reading it the whole way through, I never got that idea.


1)      So, what’s the deal with Mitch?

To sum up what I said above, WHILE READING, trying to guess the ending, I thought that Mitch had never existed and was a figment of Jack's imagination.  AFTER READING, I understood Mitch did exist before and was killed by Jack the same time that Julie died.  He existed in the present story only as part of Jack's psychosis, or trauma.

2)     What’s the deal with Addinton’s Mum and the recurring dragonfly references?

Actually, sorry I didn't mention anything about this before.  I got the idea while reading that his mother was seeing visions of Julie dead and that she needed to be found for her soul to be at peace, as represented by the dragon flies throughout.  (Dragon flies are my favorite insect, and I never knew that about them.)

Now, do I like the supernatural element this brings to an otherwise 'straight arrow' story?  To be honest...  I don't know.  It didn't seem very obtrusive to the story, or detrimental to it at all, so I don't think it's too much of a problem.  I'm not going to go as far to say that I think it made the story better than it was already, but it wasn't bothersome to me and will probably give people a lot to think about.

Lol, what's funny, is that in one of my amnesia stories I told you about, there's a small, very small, minute hint of a supernatural element that is in no way obtrusive to the story, and if anything, just gives people something to think about.  That supernatural element also has to do with a soul finding peace.

3)     What was the point of the bookended montages?

Actually, I never really thought about them too much.  I like how at first, I thought it was Jack and Julie doing all those fun things, but at the end, was surprised to actually see that it was Jack and Mitch doing all the fun things.  I thought it was a cool little mislead.

There's not anything SUPER-SECRET behind it, is there?  Jack and Mitch aren't lovers, are they? and Julie wasn't a figment of Jack's imagination, was she?  I couldn't've been THAT offbase.

4)     How did the Vegas Flashback come into play with the Harrison’s Cave scenes?

So when Jack went Rambo on the people trying to rape Julie, his heroics wouldn't just come out of nowhere.  Was that correct?

5)     Did Jack kill anyone in the present time line?  Did he try to kill anyone in the present time line?

Yeah.  He killed Woodie and tried to kill Addinton in the present timeline.  He also tried to kill what's his face?  Glenville.  (Sorry, Glenville just never made that much of an impression on me throughout the whole story.  That's why I thought his and Shauntee's little fling went on too long.)


I'm sorry I was a little confusing with the way I worded some of my thoughts lastnight.  Hope this makes everything a little more clear as to what I thought what happened.

Lol.  I'm still questioning myself, wondering if I did read everything right.  Anyhow, let me know, or if there's anything you want me to try and make a little clearer about what I think, just point it out and I'll try to explain it a little better.

Glad I could be of help.  If there's anything else, just let me know.

- Mark


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Dreamscale
Posted: May 30th, 2011, 10:39pm Report to Moderator
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OK, Mark, very good. You nailed everything except for one...Mitch was not a figment of Jack's imagination or psychosis.  He was a ghost.  He was back to make sure Jack didn't get away with his murder and to make him remember.

Jack and Mitch were best friends and always had been.  Jack and Julie had lost what they had based on Jimmy's death and the way jack handled it and blamed himself.  The bookended montages are to show their bond and yes, as you mentioned, to make you think it was about Jack and Julie, when it was more Jack and Mitch...and no, they are not gay in any way.

In the rewrite, it's clear that Jack did not try to kill Julie...he actually did everything in his power to save her when she slipped over the edge.  But with Mitch, Jack killed him in the coldest blood possible and for that, Mitch had to come back and set things straight.

Thus, the supernatural element and the dragonflies, is Mitch's return, as well as Julie's troubled soul, but more Mitch's actively troubled soul..

You're spot on on everything else and I'm very happy that you nailed the reason for the Vegas scene (other than to show some T & A, and get some action going).

Right on, bro, thank you for all the feedback.
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rc1107
Posted: May 30th, 2011, 11:12pm Report to Moderator
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Ahh, so there's a LOT more supernatural than I thought going on.  I find it interesting that the story still worked out the same in the end with me thinking it was Jack's disturbed psychosis.  I still arrived at the same conclusion.  The story loses nothing in that aspect, although it does make the dragon flies a lot more clearer.  I just thought they were meant strictly for Jules.

And I think I forgot to mention about something you asked me before, about the 'baby pussy' line, is what I guess you were referring to.

No.  I didn't think it was a typo.  I knew what kind of character you were going for in her and I rather liked that line myself.  Granted, I'm a little deranged like that myself, so there might not be a lot of people who like that part.  But I did.


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Dreamscale
Posted: May 31st, 2011, 11:19am Report to Moderator
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Next time I get negative feedback, I think I'll simply say, "Eat my baby pussy!".

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Tony Hughes
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Next time I get negative feedback, I think I'll simply say, "Eat my baby pussy!".



I'm licking my lips.....that was gross....jk by the way.


Jeff, I told you I'd give this a read like two months ago. FINALLY got around to reading it.

The way you write makes it very easy for me to visualize the action that is happening on each page. I have to give you a lot of credit if this story was chalked up in only seven weeks. That is very impressive.


I have to admit I wasn't blown away by the twists you had. I saw it coming with Mitch being the "other" man and knew that Jack would probably end up being the killer. In fact, I didn't really care for either of the characters that much. Although at times I really felt for Jack, his kid dying, his ability to defend his wife in the cave (a really thrilling scene by the way).

I think your story would be a lot more accessible if you perhaps drew back on the flashbacks and focused on the present a little more. The flashbacks took me out of what was happening too often. Your ability to present action scenes is a real gift. From the cave scene to the chase with Woodie, I was pulled in.

Even though Jack and Mitch were perhaps not the most amiable pair, you wrote some really good cops in. At times, I would have liked to see the story focus on them more.


That's all I really have. Again, the whole amnesia thing is not really up my ally, but your skills as a writer allowed me to breeze through this story pretty quickly and I enjoyed reading it. I cannot say I would "like it" if I saw it as a film though....

I liked Fade to White and kind of enjoyed this. I get the feeling you're a real outdoors man, a man of travel. Let me know if you have any other scripts!
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Dreamscale
Posted: August 18th, 2011, 4:25pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Mr. Ow, thanks so much for reading and providing feedback.  I totally appreciate it!

The fact that Mitch is the "other man" really isn't supposed to be a twist.  It's actually more of a cover up for the real twist that Mitch is dead, and the Mitch we see throughout the present time line is actually a ghost.  Kinda one of those techniques that allows readers/watchers to think they've got it figured out, but actually just diverts attention away from the real twist.

You are not alone in not really liking Jack and Mitch, which still surprises me to this day.  I think it must be the tone in which everything and everyone, is portrayed.  For instance, in the Vegas scene, we see numerous "bad qualities" from both of them, yet in a movie like The Hangover, the same things occur, but are handled in a comical way.  The booze, drug and engage in sex, just like the Wolfpack does, but here, people look down on them for these very same actions.  Kinda interesting, actually.

I'm bummed you said this isn't something you'd enjoy seeing on film.  IMO, the Flashbacks would be so much easier to handle in a filmed version.  Oh well, all I can do is try.

Let me know if I can help in any of your projects.  Thanks again!
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leitskev
Posted: August 18th, 2011, 4:55pm Report to Moderator
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Jeff, one thing about the Hangover guys: they had to be roofied to do those things. That's kind of the premise. Guys to to Vegas for a bachelor party and end up doing things they would never do because the nerdy guy slips them a drug to loosen them up. Does that make sense?
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Tony Hughes
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Quoted from Dreamscale


You are not alone in not really liking Jack and Mitch, which still surprises me to this day.  I think it must be the tone in which everything and everyone, is portrayed.  For instance, in the Vegas scene, we see numerous "bad qualities" from both of them, yet in a movie like The Hangover, the same things occur, but are handled in a comical way.  The booze, drug and engage in sex, just like the Wolfpack does, but here, people look down on them for these very same actions.  Kinda interesting, actually.

I'm bummed you said this isn't something you'd enjoy seeing on film.  IMO, the Flashbacks would be so much easier to handle in a filmed version.  Oh well, all I can do is try.

Let me know if I can help in any of your projects.  Thanks again!


Perhaps I shouldn't have said it would make a film a wouldn't like. Many of the sequences you wrote (including the opening) would translate really well to celluloid. Although your script is almost completely different, I remember seeing a film called the LAST GETAWAY (i believe that was the title). I went in with low expectations and came out satisfied.

You are right: the flashbacks may do better on film ,rather than having to read them. I did not mean all of them, I just found it difficult to stick with in the beginning, but once I got used to your structure I understood their purpose.


AS for the Hangover, that film is a comedy. IN your script, Going back to Vegas just made it harder for me to sympathize with Jack being betrayed because he cheated on his wife as well. I had no problem with the scene, I just felt that it makes it hard for the audience to want Jack to find a happy ending. He doesn't anyway so I guess you did your character justice.

It is interesting how given the circumstances of a genre people can accept particular actions a character does in a film and at the same time denounce them in other stories.

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Dreamscale
Posted: August 18th, 2011, 5:25pm Report to Moderator
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It makes perfect sense, but Bachelor Parties in Vegas tend to be this way, one way or another.

For instance, one of my best friends has been married to his wife for over 20 years.  They have 3 beautiful children.  He's a great husband, a great father, and a great provider. From the outside looking in, this guy could be a frickin' saint.

But, when the cat's away, this mousse likes to play.  When he's around the "right" crowd, which in reality cold be looked at as the "wrong" crowd, he's apt to do anything and everything in the book, as in hard drinking, drugging, and banging any babe that's ready to go.

His wife not only has no idea, but she literally wouldn't even believe it, even if she witnessed it going down.

Does this make him a bad person?  I bet many would say "Hell yes, it does!".  But the cold hard reality is that he's far from alone in this behavior...especially when it comes to Vegas trips.

And it's not like women are remotely guilt free in this regard either.  I've been downright shocked how professional, "mature" wives and mothers act, when they get out with friends, in situations where the old rule, no harm, no foul" comes into play.

Does it make it right?  Hell no, but it is the way it is for a large number and percentage of people.
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leitskev
Posted: August 18th, 2011, 5:40pm Report to Moderator
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Jeff, you are correct that a lot of guys are like that, a lot more than people would ever believe. Remember, I was behind a bar for 20 years. I've seen it. Given the right circumstances, ease of opportunity, it's almost unbelievable what otherwise straightlaced guys will do, especially if there are easy women around.

But, you let the secret out!

The problem is that though that's how many guys are, you don't want those characters in film unless they are just rogue, supporting actors. For the protagonist to be likable, we don't want him to be too real. We don't want to see him pick his nose.

I liked Unforgettable. I must have, because I read it a LONG time ago, and I remember all the details. The flashbacks made for a hard read, but it will be different in film.

The one thing I was always against was the damned Vegas scene. It definitely made these guys unlikable, and it comes early when you're still forming an opinion of them.

And yes, I've been to Vegas. With a girlfriend though, so nothing crazy!
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Dreamscale
Posted: August 18th, 2011, 5:53pm Report to Moderator
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Kev, as I said, it's far from only "guys" who are like this.  Women are as bad and maybe even worse, cause it's easier for them.

IMO, it all comes down to what you know about reality, and how you take certain instances of said reality.  In this example, it occurs during a Bachelor Party, while neither is "married".  It's not like they're going out every weekend, picking up babes, while their wifeys are home doing laundry and ironing clothes.

It's all perspective.

Mr. Ow, all I meant with my comment about being bummed, was that, as most, I wish everyone would want to see my movie and love it.  That's not how life works though, and I'm well aware of it.

Are you talking about "Last Getaway", low budget horror movie, or "Perfect Getaway", which is actually much like Fade to White, with Milla Jojovich and Steve Zahn?
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Tony Hughes
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Ahh, yes the Perfect Getaway is what I meant.

My god you are right, if your two scripts had sex that would be the result.
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Dreamscale
Posted: August 18th, 2011, 6:11pm Report to Moderator
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Yeah, that's what I thought.  My Fade was written a couple years before Getaway came out, but there are similarities for sure.

Of course, my script is much, much better, though.  
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darrentomalin
Posted: October 4th, 2011, 4:31pm Report to Moderator
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SPOILERS AHEAD ME HEARTIES!




This was a great script and a real fun read. It really drew me in and threw an awesome switch protag to antag (is that right?)
I love stuff that deals with memory, perception, things aint what they seem to be etc.
A unique setting and the relationship between Addington and Glenville was awesome and very beleivable.
You can tell you do a lot of research in your scripts and they are so much stronger and beleiveable for it.

Some of the sex and nudity wasn't necessary I thought and the attempted rape scene went a little too far, however, the juxtaposition of "paradise" setting versus such darkness (aformentioned attempted rape, drugs, sex etc) was not lost on me.
The caving scene went on a bit long but I can see that this was meant to be suspensful so the climax of that scene hit harder.



A couple of tricks that I hoped to see:
Loved the scenes with Addington's mother but was expecting a bigger link and a paranormal element because of her gift.
The death of the son I thought was going to be a bigger piece of the puzzle other than just the catalyst that destroyed their marriage. especially the way it was introduced at the end of a montage of happiness to the soundtrack of a beautiful song! (which was flippin' marvelous and really shocked me!)

I did think the end montage was a bit cheesy with hi fives, "aint life grand" and big smiles, read a bit like a chewing gum ad.
I know it was meant to link in with the opening montage so not sure what else could be done other than the activities being changed or something.
When Glenville says "Need to check my phone" I think is a bit unrealistic for a detective in the middle of a missing person case, instead he should notice he has a new message whilst getting busy!
Mitch and Julie get into a bit of unnecessary exposition about their relationship towards the end (flashback) when they say they are going to come clean but I can see it was trying to justify their affair so their murder was more shocking.


Great stuff as usual.

Daz


http://darrentomalin.webs.com/index.htm

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Dreamscale
Posted: October 4th, 2011, 6:24pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from darrentomalin
This was a great script and a real fun read. It really drew me in and threw an awesome switch protag to antag (is that right?)
I love stuff that deals with memory, perception, things aint what they seem to be etc.
A unique setting and the relationship between Addinton and Glenville was awesome and very believable.

You can tell you do a lot of research in your scripts and they are so much stronger and believable for it.


Thanks so much for reading and your feedback, Daz.  I really do appreciate it.  Glad this worked for you.  Really happy to hear that Addinton and Glenville worked for you as well, as some didn't seem to appreciate them. Addinton is definitely one of my favorite characters I've ever written.  I kind of see Morgan Freeman or the like playing him.  I really tried to give their relationship a touch of reality, and am thrilled to hear it worked for you.


Quoted from darrentomalin
Some of the sex and nudity wasn't necessary I thought and the attempted rape scene went a little too far, however, the juxtaposition of "paradise" setting versus such darkness (aforementioned attempted rape, drugs, sex etc) was not lost on me.


A number of others have also not appreciated the sex/nudity scenes, and I'm still a bit surprised by that.  Maybe I'm a pervert, but I always appreciate some well done sex/nudity in an R rated movie.  I tried to provide such scenes in which the sex and nudity was a bit different than you're used to seeing.



Quoted from darrentomalin
The caving scene went on a bit long but I can see that this was meant to be suspenseful so the climax of that scene hit harder.


Yeah, it definitely reads a bit long and I was worried about this scene as well as the Vegas scene, as they are "long" scenes for sure.  But, since both are very visually entertaining scenes and both contain alot of action, I decided to stick with them, pretty much as originally conceived.  Point taken, though.


Quoted from darrentomalin
A couple of tricks that I hoped to see:
Loved the scenes with Addinton's mother but was expecting a bigger link and a paranormal element because of her gift.


I'm glad you enjoyed Mrs. Harewood.  She's another character I really like, and actually wish I could have given her more screen time, but her role is twofold - to give more "character" to Addinton and to tie in the supernatural element of the dragonflies.  Many didn't quite get the actual twist here and I'm wondering if you are one of those.  Mitch was not a figment of Jack's imagination.  He was a ghost, and he was back to make sure that Jack didn't get away with his cold blooded murder.  Mrs. Harewood "sees" Julie in the hereafter, but not Mitch, as Mitch isn't there...he's here still, in a supernatural form.  The dragonflies are a tie in to this as well for a couple reasons.  First, dragonflies do have numerous otherworldly connections in myth and superstition, around the world. Also, when Jack buries Mitch, there's a dragonfly on the stone marker, which serves to kind of set the stage for the recurring dragonfly sightings throughout the script.

So, just to be clear, Mitch is a ghost and he is capable of doing all he does in Jack's presence, but no one else can see him.  Hope that makes sense and clears up any possible discrepancies.


Quoted from darrentomalin
The death of the son I thought was going to be a bigger piece of the puzzle other than just the catalyst that destroyed their marriage. especially the way it was introduced at the end of a montage of happiness to the soundtrack of a beautiful song! (which was flippin' marvelous and really shocked me!)


Yeah, the death of Jack and Julie's son was definitely the catalyst of the destruction of their marriage, but it was also the catalyst for the downward spiral that Jack went into. He never really recovered or forgave himself for what happened.  He started drinking heavily, started in on coke again, and pretty much tuned out of life in general.

The early intro during the opening montage was merely to show that this wasn't going to be all happy memories.  Also, it's noted a few times that Jack completely blocked this out of his memory and it hasn't been discussed since.  So, while blocking out these new memories, this old one came rushing back, although blurry at first.

Hey, thanks for the compliment about the montage and song!  Love to hear that.  I really liked it as well, and it was the very first thing that I wrote for this script.


Quoted from darrentomalin
I did think the end montage was a bit cheesy with hi fives, "aint life grand" and big smiles, read a bit like a chewing gum ad.
I know it was meant to link in with the opening montage so not sure what else could be done other than the activities being changed or something.


Yep, the idea was to bookend the script with the same montage, only the opening one is fuzzy, without detail as to who's even involved, while the end is to provide clarity.  The hope was that readers (viewers?) would assume that all the events involve Jack and Julie, while in reality, it was mostly all Jack and Mitch.  Jack and Mitch were best friends since before college.  They remained best friends and did all sorts of cool shit together, thus making Mitch's cold blooded murder, that much more terrible.

And, BTW, Jack did not murder Julie.  He actually tried to save her with everything he had (which I hope is clearer in this final version that you read).  This is the main reason why she's not involved in the supernatural goings ons - she died accidentally, Mitch was killed in the coldest of blood, and had to come back to set things straight.


Quoted from darrentomalin
When Glenville says "Need to check my phone" I think is a bit unrealistic for a detective in the middle of a missing person case, instead he should notice he has a new message whilst getting busy!


Not sure where that is exactly, but I hear what you're saying.  Keep in mind that there really isn't any crime at this point (that they are aware of) and it is Barbados, and life is very different there.


Quoted from darrentomalin
Mitch and Julie get into a bit of unnecessary exposition about their relationship towards the end (flashback) when they say they are going to come clean but I can see it was trying to justify their affair so their murder was more shocking.


Yeah, I thought I really needed to make things as clear as I could as to their relationship both past and current.  And the reality of the situation is that if they had come clean at an appropriate time, it would have been worked out, most likely, as they were the closest of friends.  Not sure if you caught this or not, but Mitch and Julie were a couple long before Jack and Julie hooked up.  So there is quite a bit of history
there, and a friendship that never should have ended.  Mitch even says to Jack, "I love you man, I'm so sorry...", as he's lying at the bottom of the gorge with a broken back, after Jack just attacked him.  Under "normal" conditions, all could be forgiven, but Jack was completely wasted, fucked up from the cave incident, and not in his right mind in any way.

Thanks again for reading, Daz.  Take care, man.


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darrentomalin
Posted: October 4th, 2011, 7:37pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff
I think I missed the ghost thing, my take was that Jack had lost the plot through grief, drugs, being a nutter and Mitch was haunting him in his imagination, a figment. That's why I perceived the paranormal theme as minimal, thinking it was more psychological.

I got that Jack tried to save Julie. But then I wondered if you wrote it so that you could read that he suddenly had a change of mind and LET her slip from his grasp.
Just the way my mind works lol.

Morgan Freeman - yes.

Daz


http://darrentomalin.webs.com/index.htm

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Dreamscale
Posted: October 4th, 2011, 7:57pm Report to Moderator
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OK, Darren, you've just helped me then.  I'm going to have to change the line near the end,

"Jack looks to where Mitch was standing, but he's alone."

and make it completely clear that Mitch was indeed a ghost, or a "paranormal entity".  

There are a number of things that Mitch "does" that exclude him merely being a figment of Jack's imagination, but for some reason, it's not coming through very clearly.

Thanks again!
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darrentomalin
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cool mate.

Though I quite like ambiguity where people can make their own minds up or have different ways of translating a piece.

(my WIP I was telling you about has guilt as its main theme so not as similiar to yours as I had feared!)


http://darrentomalin.webs.com/index.htm

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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 4th, 2011, 9:14pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale


I'm glad you enjoyed Mrs. Harewood.  She's another character I really like, and actually wish I could have given her more screen time, but her role is twofold - to give more "character" to Addinton and to tie in the supernatural element of the dragonflies.  Many didn't quite get the actual twist here and I'm wondering if you are one of those.  Mitch was not a figment of Jack's imagination.  He was a ghost, and he was back to make sure that Jack didn't get away with his cold blooded murder.  Mrs. Harewood "sees" Julie in the hereafter, but not Mitch, as Mitch isn't there...he's here still, in a supernatural form.  The dragonflies are a tie in to this as well for a couple reasons.  First, dragonflies do have numerous otherworldly connections in myth and superstition, around the world. Also, when Jack buries Mitch, there's a dragonfly on the stone marker, which serves to kind of set the stage for the recurring dragonfly sightings throughout the script.



...which proves that there's a lot more to Jeff than meets the eye.  

Jeff, just checking in on the thread again to say hello and I haven't read all your scripts, but to me, this one you hit out of the park. Yes, you did make me cry in this one.

Now, as to the dragonflies...

This morning Dave called me out after he had already "almost" left for work to see a cricket because he thought I'd never seen one before. Well, you know he was right. We've been together for how long? (When I have to start counting on my fingers...) Thirty-four years. Yes. And hopefully we'll have another thirty-four.

Anyway, Jeff. You know I take note of all the little details in life. So I really think you did a good job on that aspect. But you know, I don't think it was contrived at all. I felt it. That's what makes it so real and right to me.

Good on you for that. High marks to you. You deserve them.

Sandra



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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Reef Dreamer
Posted: October 5th, 2011, 8:50am Report to Moderator
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Daren, you are digging up some good ones, I'll give you that. I must have joined SS shortly after this drifted off.

For me the great aspect was pace and being understandable. The read was easy and you wanted to know what was next.

SPOILERS

The issues around the ghost, Mitch, the boys death (the hit and run needed clarifying) etc etc all seem easily resolvable.

As for Jack, I did like him. He tries hard, he's honest (at the beginning) he cares for julie and has suffered great misfortune. The twist that he was the killer was strong, but, now that he is revisiting this ( ie at the end) to me it appears a chance for him to resolve his sin, for want of a better phrase. But instead he kills somewhat unnecessarily at the end. May be I like happier endings, but there seemed the chance to find resolution and in effect reunited the three again. Just a thought.

Otherwise a good read. Cheers.


My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 5th, 2011, 10:44am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Sandra Elstree.
...which proves that there's a lot more to Jeff than meets the eye.  


There's alot of Jeff that does meet the eye as well, Sandra, as I'm in abysmal shape these days and way over fighting weight!


Quoted from Sandra Elstree.
Jeff, just checking in on the thread again to say hello and I haven't read all your scripts, but to me, this one you hit out of the park. Yes, you did make me cry in this one.


Thank you, Sandra.  That really makes me feel great, and going through very tough times as of late, it means alot to me...it really does!


Quoted from Sandra Elstree.
Anyway, Jeff. You know I take note of all the little details in life. So I really think you did a good job on that aspect. But you know, I don't think it was contrived at all. I felt it. That's what makes it so real and right to me.

Good on you for that. High marks to you. You deserve them.


Thank you.  I also really liked the supernatural aspect to this.  Although the script was written and conceived in about 5 1/2 weeks, the story itself went through a number of changes in the beginning.  Originally, there was nothing remotely supernatural about it.  At teh time of conception, I was taking alot of hikes around a cool place called Seward Park, in Seattle.  It would rain alot and many times, I'd be the only one on the trails, so it gave me lots of time to think.  I was in the interior of the park, one day, by myself, and it was lightly raining.  I turned down a smaller, thicker trail, and came face to face with a big old dragonfly.  I stopped, and the 2 of us just stared at each other for probably well over a minute.  As I started up again, it hit me, and the script took a massive change from that point on.

Thanks for checking in, Sandra.
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 5th, 2011, 1:48pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Reef Dreamer
For me the great aspect was pace and being understandable. The read was easy and you wanted to know what was next.


Hey Reef, thanks for the read. Glad you enjoyed it.


Quoted from Reef Dreamer
The issues around the ghost, Mitch, the boys death (the hit and run needed clarifying) etc etc all seem easily resolvable.


Yeah, I'm beginning to see this and based on Daz's feedback, I made a major adjustment that comes out and makes it clear that Mitch was indeed a ghost all this time.

As for Jimmy's death, I don't see what needs clarifying or fixing.  I think it's laid out pretty clearly in the Flashback where Jack tells Addinton and Glenville.  There are also a few other places where it's said that Jack blocked it out of his mind and things went downhill form there.


Quoted from Reef Dreamer
As for Jack, I did like him. He tries hard, he's honest (at the beginning) he cares for julie and has suffered great misfortune. The twist that he was the killer was strong, but, now that he is revisiting this ( ie at the end) to me it appears a chance for him to resolve his sin, for want of a better phrase. But instead he kills somewhat unnecessarily at the end. May be I like happier endings, but there seemed the chance to find resolution and in effect reunited the three again. Just a thought.


This is great to hear.  Thanks.  So many peeps don't like Jack and seem to have trouble rooting for him.  IMO, he's definitely not a bad guy, or at least wasn't.  He has gone through great tragedy and hasn't handled it well, but he is trying for sure.

What takes him over the edge in the end is a combination of things and events that spiraled out of his control and at the very end, I think it's safe to conclude that he's lost it and gone nuts.  The heavy drinking and coke binge is one thing, but the beating he took in the cave combined with what he witnesses when he sees Julie and Mitch together is just too much.  After attacking Mitch and knocking him over the ledge, he comes to his senses briefly and tries to save Julie (I have a feeling you read an older draft, in which that may not have been clear), but when she falls to her death, he completely loses it, and kills Mitch in the coldest of blood possible.

The revelation of what actually transpired (when Mitch reveals himself to be a ghost) once again, sends him off the deep end and at this point, in the present time end, he resorts to survival mode and tries to kill Addinton and Glevville.  He's definitely whacked beyond repair at this point, and probably a good thing he gets killed himself.

Thanks again, Reef.  If there's anything you'd like me to look at of yours, let me know.

Take care!

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Reef Dreamer
Posted: October 5th, 2011, 2:33pm Report to Moderator
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DS thanks for the further detail. You have had so much on this I wasn't going to respond but I did have two things to share.

BOY - my issue here was that it felt part of a mystery that wasn't ever resolved. Why did he drive off. To me Jack could still struggle with a normal accident. The driver was known, but he wasn't charged with anything because it was an accident, something that Jack struggles with because of the scale of his loss. Surely someone should be punished, which of course is Jack. The advantage of this is that it is clear and leaves no "why". I do appreciate that some un resolved elements can help but should a mystery remain?

It is a small point, but I kept thinking of it during the read wondering whether this would pop up and be explained.

JACK death - just an idea. To me it read like he had forgotten and with Mitch helping he began to remember. This struck me as different to the act act which is angry, vicious etc. Now he is looking at what he did. It could therefore be more reflective. The oh no what have a done feeling. Further he has no reason to live, as he has lost his wife and friend, so why be angry and in killing mode?

So  whilst reading I was almost expecting a change in the tone, the flow, when he would realise, go into acceptance and the outcome change accordingly. I agree he has to die, but maybe Woodie could do this ( a further change i accept) as he is confessing and regreting, thereby resolving the trilogy of relationships returning in the eye of the viewer back to the three friendships. Maybe three dragonflies. OK, OK I accept it is a bit Disney but it also feels true to the emotional flow of regret and loss.

Cheers.


My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 5th, 2011, 3:30pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Reef, I do enjoy a good discussion on scripts, so your feedback and comments are important to me.

I tend to write rather dark, unhappy stories, and although there are many "happy" times in this script, and even the final resolution has some happy things - Addinton and Glenville both living, I definitely wanted to end things on a rather dark note.

I think it comes down to how you perceive Jack, as to how you're going to feel about the ending.  It is sad in many ways how things played out and how 3 lives were lost when in reality, no one should have died.  But, in that same respect, Jack did go through a number of different feelings and realizations in his final 2 days alive.  In the very end, as he's lying there on the forest floor, dying, he does understand exactly what happened and what he did.

His final line, "I remember now." is actually a shout out to what I believe is the single greatest recording of all time, Queensryche's "Operation Mindcrime".  The Protag/Antag in that concept rock opera remembers what he did, and the sins he committed in the name of something he knew nothing about.  Quite great shit, if you ask me.

As for Jimmy's death, it's handled as a mere Flashback, and isn't explored in any depth or detail.  Teh fact that someone accidentally killed him in a hit and run, and never stopped or was found, only serves to drive Jack into further depths of depression, regret, and the fact that it was he who left the door open, so Jimmy could get outside.

Again, thanks for the great insight.  Much obliged.
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CoopBazinga
Posted: January 15th, 2012, 7:29am Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff,

Sorry for the delay man but I have purposely left this for the weekend to give it a proper, undisturbed read.

I made it past three pages so that’s a start right. Anyway, I haven’t bothered reading through the old comments as there is too many and you said this was an update or rewrite so I’m guessing its changed overtime and to be honest, I want to come in fresh on this one.

For starters, to have written this in seven weeks is a damn impressive effort and you should be proud of that. The writing is impressive, some descriptions are fantastically done and lots of white space which is always nice to read.  I was struggling to find things to point out and I really tried hard honestly but will note the things that didn’t work for me personally later.

I will start with the flashbacks and I understand they were vital to the structure of this but there was way too many IMO. The first few threw me totally off course and took me away from the story. For example, why show a flashback scene of them arriving at Corbin’s car rentals? It feels unnecessary as this will be explained in the next scene.

The Vegas flashback was a fantastically set scene and good on its own merits but what did it have to do with the current story? Yeah it explains a bit more of the Mitch and Jack relationship but we read about their close relationship through dialogue later on. This flashback felt superfluous to me.

The cave flashback was also a really good scene with lots of tension and some nicely written action but it went on a tad too long IMO.

I understand flashbacks will look better on screen than on paper but for me there were too many little ones at the beginning  which affected the read for me.

I forgot to mention the montage at the beginning, I’m not too sure about montages but I did like yours and it worked for me so good job with that because they can be very hard to pull off.

The characters were generally well done, thought the Glenville and Shauntee side story was pointless, it served no purpose and took me away from the action.

Addinton was a good character and I enjoyed the scenes with his mum which was a nice, dramatic and quite touching side story. I personally didn’t like the dragonfly reference throughout but understand why you did it so am not complaining, just not my thing.

Mitch was a dick, no doubt about it but I think this is what you wanted the reader to think of him, I knew almost immediately he was having an affair with Julie. He had to be there for a reason and that is the most logical conclusion so well done for the ending when we find out the revelation. A nice misdirection shall we say.

Julie was undeveloped IMO, she came across as a right bitch which is maybe what you wanted but I would have liked to see more drama scenes from her, especially dealing with the death of her son, Jimmy.  It’s just with all the flashbacks involving her, I never felt I learnt much about her.

Jack was certainly my main gripe, the reason being that that only did he come across as somebody I didn’t like in a main protagonist which isn’t that important but also there seemed to be no urgency in his character. His wife is missing and he finds the time to get wasted on vodka and coke. Why isn’t he out there looking for her, interrogating people, chasing down the leads he finds from his memory? He just seems to want to rub his temples all day.

Woodie was a good well crafted character, didn’t have a lot to do but I enjoyed what little he had. He added some shadiness which kept me second guessing about him.

I enjoyed all the descriptions throughout the script, your level of detail is refreshing and it doesn’t feel like you’ve over described anything which can be very common in scripts. I can tell you have done a lot of research about the area which is a fantastic achievement, especially in the short time you had to come up with an idea and get it down on paper.

Here are a few things I noticed:

Page 8: Julie “You’re funny...But I love you” Very corny and on the nose.

Page 11: Coop! Great name!

Page 12: Another flashback here and there had been too many by this point IMO which took me away from the story.

Page 18: Insert flyer, Should Nailah’s dialogue be (O.S) as we’re supposed to be looking at the flyer?

Page 20: The short scene with Jack after he speaks to Mitch on the phone could be taken out IMO. You describe him getting out of bed and getting dressed, skipping straight to the taxi might be better.

20: WENDELL, 50’s, Bajan, drives. Take out the Bajan in the wrylie “thick Bajan accent” We know he’s gonna have a Bajan accent surely?

In fact, the whole cab scene could be cut and go straight to the beach resort. Just a thought.

EDIT: I see you did wrylie’s a lot for “thick Bajan accent” for a lot of the characters, are they all necessary after the first few? More of a question really?

Page 22: I want to mention about the Dover beach description, which was brilliant and set a great visual in my head. Good work!

22: Should “beach goers” be capitalised?

We randomly went to a flashback at the golf club; it might work better if Jack see’s somebody in golf attire at the tiki bar or a bag of clubs to push this flashback on.

22: Only two periods in an ellipsis in Julie’s dialogue on this page. Now that’s being picky.

Page 30: Alexis “You wanna eat my baby pussy” Though I laughed , it doesn’t read right man! Did you mean “Pussy baby”

Page 31: Now this is a personal preference but I would have put a period in front of the gun description, instead of 38 caliber handgun, “.38 caliber handgun”

Page 34:  Mrs. Harewood “She was standing with your father...looked like she just got there” I’m guessing she means Julie and this has killed some of the mystery as to whether she is dead or not? Guess I will find out as I read on.

34:  Dr. Sandiford stands.

DR. SANDIFORD
Gentlemen, in my professional opinion
I believe Jack is being completely
honest with us. He genuinely doesn't
know what happened. We see this
type of thing occasionally.

GLENVILLE
You see patients just take off like
this?

Sandiford smiles, stands.

Sandiford stands twice in this scene?

Page 39: Okay, when Addinton and Gelnville are in the car, Glenville is driving but when they arrived at the beach resort, the passenger door opened and Glenville steps out? Did they stop on route and change driver? Just seems strange.

Page 42: I would rework the scene when they talk about Jimmy, this feels like it should be more than it is at the moment, like it’s skipped over or something. This scene just feels like it should have more emotion.

Page 46:Addinton “Ah, the plot thickens” This line doesn’t work for me, it feels out of place and should be a Pink Panther movie with Peter Sellars.

Page 84: Windmill’s Jack in the side of the head. What’s a windmill?

Page 89: If Woodie knew Jack’s mobile number, why wait so long to ring him?

Page 91: Orlando “Addinton, come over here, quick” The reason I point this out is that Orlando has called him “sir” throughout and suddenly changes to his first name? I would keep it to “sir” for consistency.

Page 95: “Pulls out his Driver” Just wondered why the “d” is capitalised in driver? I wasn’t sure why? You capitalise it three more times but not on page 99. Just curious is all?  

Jeff,

I was very impressed with the writing, your technique, grammar and plot structure are all there for all to see on the pages, and you have talent no doubt. I will be honest and say that reading this will only help me with my own craft so if is all I took from this, it was worth it.

But that’s not all I took away because I thoroughly enjoyed reading this, it was a clean fast read and a story which I would easily see being filmed. The first act was slow but well paced with great dialogue and location descriptions which set me up for the second act which was faster paced with a good ending which I never saw coming. It could be improved of course but what couldn’t? I personally would cut down on the flashbacks but that’s a newbie’s opinion so take it as it is.

A fine piece of work, thanks for giving me the updated version to read, it’s much appreciated.

Hope that after over 140 comments from others, mine can still be helpful in some way.

Good work Jeff.

Steve
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Dreamscale
Posted: January 15th, 2012, 11:19pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Steve, thanks so much for the read and detailed, helpful analysis.  Being a perfectionist, I always appreciate when people find mistakes I made...and I immediately thank them and make the changes.

I also enjoy a good discussion about stuff and feel I owe anyone who spends a substantial amount of time on my writing, to reply in detail with my thoughts...so...here goes – looks like my responses are going to take 2 posts, so I apologize in advance, but wanted to address all of your well thought out feedback.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
For starters, to have written this in seven weeks is a damn impressive effort and you should be proud of that. The writing is impressive, some descriptions are fantastically done and lots of white space which is always nice to read.  I was struggling to find things to point out and I really tried hard honestly but will note the things that didn’t work for me personally later.


Thanks, man.  I do appreciate that.  I am a stickler for details and would never post anything until I'm happy with it.  I was very worried about being able to complete this challenge, and actually got off to a slow start, but once it started happening (as I've detailed in previous posts, it went very smoothly.  I finished in about 5 1/2 weeks and spent the final week and a 1/2 just checking for errors and the like.  All in all, I was very pleased with it, and I'm glad you seemed to enjoy it.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
I will start with the flashbacks and I understand they were vital to the structure of this but there was way too many IMO. The first few threw me totally off course and took me away from the story. For example, why show a flashback scene of them arriving at Corbin’s car rentals? It feels unnecessary as this will be explained in the next scene.


You're definitely not alone in this.  Most have said exactly the same thing, but as I've said so many times, once you "get used to the fact that this is an alternate, non standard structure, told through Flashbacks, IMO, at least, it should be pretty easy to not only follow along, but also get into the flow and feel of the way it's meant to be.

In a filmed version, I don't feel it would be at all jarring, as with visuals that we're going into another Flashback, it should be easy to follow and understand.  And, to take it a step further, IMO, this type of story can only be told with Flashbacks, but again, this was what I was going after here, and do understand it's far from standard structure or storytelling, as we're basically following along with 2 sets of time-lines - the present, and the past, as seen through Jack's memories - and from his POV, as well.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
The Vegas flashback was a fantastically set scene and good on its own merits but what did it have to do with the current story? Yeah it explains a bit more of the Mitch and Jack relationship but we read about their close relationship through dialogue later on. This flashback felt superfluous to me.


Again, you're not alone here, Steve.  At this stage in the script, I felt I needed to "spice things up" a bit, and also change the setting.  This rather long set of scenes (and yeah, I was actually worried about the length here as I wrote it and even after I finished with it) serves several important aspects IMO.  First of all, it's the first and only detailed scene(s) in which we get to see Jack and Mitch together - and their relationship is key to everything that goes on here.  It also shows how both of them act and react to tough and dangerous situations - in a way foreshadowing Jack's actions and reactions in the cave scene much later on.  Also, I thought it was important to show the the watches they each got, which plays a rather important, but most likely overlooked aspect to the final scene's lead in.  And finally, I wanted to get some good R rated nudity and sex on screen as soon as I could, although most do not seem to appreciate it anyways.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
The cave flashback was also a really good scene with lots of tension and some nicely written action but it went on a tad too long IMO.


Yep, again, most agree with you here.  And I too was worried with both of these scenes in that they were both rather long, compared to the pace of the rest of the script.  But, IMO, these are 2 of the 3 "set-piece" scenes (the other being the climax, final scene(s).  I think the visuals and unique setting here would make this group of scenes run much faster (in the viewer's eyes) than you'd think, and that it seems to on the page.  In reality, it's about 12 pages long, but is made up of several different scenes, in different unique locations, with different characters interacting with each other, culminating in a 4 or so minute intense fight scene that really is the crux of how Jack got to look the way he did in the very opening scene (and why/how the climax of the mystery went down the way it did).


Quoted from CoopBazinga
I understand flashbacks will look better on screen than on paper but for me there were too many little ones at the beginning  which affected the read for me.


I hear ya...I really do, and all I can say is that, again, I went for something non standard, and because of that, it's going to "feel" different from what you're used to reading, and probably seeing, but in reality, there are several movies that use a shitload of Flashbacks and out of place scenes that have been rather successful.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
I forgot to mention the montage at the beginning, I’m not too sure about montages but I did like yours and it worked for me so good job with that because they can be very hard to pull off.


Yeah, me too!     Again, I was very worried about starting off this way, especially with the exact song, but it just felt right and once things started rolling, I was very happy that I went that way...and finished that way.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
The characters were generally well done, thought the Glenville and Shauntee side story was pointless, it served no purpose and took me away from the action.


Damn, Steve...and damn everyone else who said the same thing!     I just totally disagree, as I've said so many times already.  To me, Shauntee is such a cool character.  She's funny, cool, SEXY, and provides a recurring plot point (in dialogue) with a number of other characters, great R rated T&A, good character depth to Glenville outside of the plot at hand, and the reason why Glenville isn't with Addinton in the climax, when he should have been.  Yeah, I know, there's lots of other ways to attain all this, but for me, she works well, and serves her purpose exactly like I wanted her to.  It really surprises me so many don't like her and feel she's superfluous.  Oh well, looks like I'm in the vast minority here.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Addinton was a good character and I enjoyed the scenes with his mum which was a nice, dramatic and quite touching side story. I personally didn’t like the dragonfly reference throughout but understand why you did it so am not complaining, just not my thing.


Yep, cool.  I understand.  Addinton and his mum are 2 characters I really enjoyed writing.  I also like the dragonflies but understand how some won't.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Mitch was a dick, no doubt about it but I think this is what you wanted the reader to think of him, I knew almost immediately he was having an affair with Julie. He had to be there for a reason and that is the most logical conclusion so well done for the ending when we find out the revelation. A nice misdirection shall we say.


Yep, exactly.  But, IMO, Coop's not a total dick, but I can easily see how most would think so.  And, yeah, my intent was not to conceal that fact that it was him who Julie was fucking around with.  Glad the twist worked for you.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Julie was undeveloped IMO, she came across as a right bitch which is maybe what you wanted but I would have liked to see more drama scenes from her, especially dealing with the death of her son, Jimmy.  It’s just with all the flashbacks involving her, I never felt I learnt much about her.


Well, yes and no.  I really didn't want her to be a total beeyatch, but I did purposely leave her ambiguous and you never actually see her in the present time line, and she is what the "mystery" is all about...so, I wanted to leave her out of any real detailed scenes, involving her, until the very end reveal.  Again, very non standard structure, but what I was after.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Jack was certainly my main gripe, the reason being that that only did he come across as somebody I didn’t like in a main protagonist which isn’t that important but also there seemed to be no urgency in his character. His wife is missing and he finds the time to get wasted on vodka and coke. Why isn’t he out there looking for her, interrogating people, chasing down the leads he finds from his memory? He just seems to want to rub his temples all day.


Yep, again, you're not alone here. But keep in mind that the present time line takes place over a single day, much of which is taken up with Jack in the hospital, and in bad shape.  But, also, keep in mind that maybe Jack was aware of what went down deep inside and knew there was nothing he could do, but incriminate himself.  Then again, what could he realistically accomplish in such a short period of time?
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Dreamscale
Posted: January 15th, 2012, 11:20pm Report to Moderator
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Part 2 -


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Woodie was a good well crafted character, didn’t have a lot to do but I enjoyed what little he had. He added some shadiness which kept me second guessing about him.


Sweet.  Glad he worked.  He had a definite role here and I wanted him to be someone who you weren't entirely sure about, but had your eye on the whole time.  His presence also was key to Addinton and Glenville's belief in Jack's story.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
I enjoyed all the descriptions throughout the script, your level of detail is refreshing and it doesn’t feel like you’ve over described anything which can be very common in scripts. I can tell you have done a lot of research about the area which is a fantastic achievement, especially in the short time you had to come up with an idea and get it down on paper.


Thanks.  It was alot of work, but it was also alot of fun completing this, as I'm very happy with the result.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Page 8: Julie “You’re funny...But I love you” Very corny and on the nose.


Someone else also brought this up, and I don't see why.  Bottom line is that Jack and Julie were once very much in love and had a great relationship...and they were both kind of goofballs - as most of my characters tend to be.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Page 18: Insert flyer, Should Nailah’s dialogue be (O.S) as we’re supposed to be looking at the flyer?


Great catch!  Fixed!


Quoted from CoopBazinga
EDIT: I see you did wrylie’s a lot for “thick Bajan accent” for a lot of the characters, are they all necessary after the first few? More of a question really?


A personal choice I made to have each character's speech pattern made clear.  You may or may not have noticed that of all the Bajans, only Glenville doesn't speak in a thick accent.  IMO, if someone speaks in a unique way, it needs to be made clear with a single wrylie, when they first speak.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
22: Should “beach goers” be capitalised?


Yep, it should.  Great catch!  Fixed.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
We randomly went to a flashback at the golf club; it might work better if Jack see’s somebody in golf attire at the tiki bar or a bag of clubs to push this flashback on.


Yep, I like this idea.  I'll work it in.  Thanks.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
22: Only two periods in an ellipsis in Julie’s dialogue on this page. Now that’s being picky.


Yep, nice catch again.  Fixed!  Thanks.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Page 30: Alexis “You wanna eat my baby pussy” Though I laughed , it doesn’t read right man! Did you mean “Pussy baby”


  HaHa...my personal favorite line!  Actually written as intended.  Kind of an inside joke...I'll tell you in a PM if you're interested.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Page 31: Now this is a personal preference but I would have put a period in front of the gun description, instead of 38 caliber handgun, “.38 caliber handgun”


Agreed.  Fixed.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Page 34:  Mrs. Harewood “She was standing with your father...looked like she just got there” I’m guessing she means Julie and this has killed some of the mystery as to whether she is dead or not? Guess I will find out as I read on.


Again, others have said the same thing and I took it to heart but decided to keep it, as this isn't really the mystery, and as it is, it kind of gives the savvy reader the feeling they know something they shouldn't, when in reality, it's actually meant to throw the reader/viewer off a bit, as a misdirection.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Sandiford stands twice in this scene?


Great catch.  Fixed.  Thanks.  I think that mistake occurred based on a rewrite of the scene.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Page 39: Okay, when Addinton and Gelnville are in the car, Glenville is driving but when they arrived at the beach resort, the passenger door opened and Glenville steps out? Did they stop on route and change driver? Just seems strange.


Damn, another great catch.  You're a good reader, Steve.  I'll look at it and fix it up.  Thanks.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Page 42: I would rework the scene when they talk about Jimmy, this feels like it should be more than it is at the moment, like it’s skipped over or something. This scene just feels like it should have more emotion.


Others have also said this, but I disagree, as Jimmy's death merely serves as a catalyst to jack's undoing years ago, and I didn't want to go into anymore detail, as I think it wold be dull and exposition...but I understand where you're coming from.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Page 46:Addinton “Ah, the plot thickens” This line doesn’t work for me, it feels out of place and should be a Pink Panther movie with Peter Sellars.


I think it was Ryan who said the same thing, and I almost took it out, but decided it seemed in line with how Addinton thinks and speaks.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Page 84: Windmill’s Jack in the side of the head. What’s a windmill?


As in he spins around and clocks Jack - I'll look at it and see what I think, but think about a big lumbering professional wrestler, spinning around with his arms out, smashing whatever is in front of him.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Page 89: If Woodie knew Jack’s mobile number, why wait so long to ring him?


Not sure how to answer this one.  No exact time or amount of days were given as to when they last spoke, but Jack was only on the island a total of 4 days, and didn't even meet Woodie until at least day 2.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Page 91: Orlando “Addinton, come over here, quick” The reason I point this out is that Orlando has called him “sir” throughout and suddenly changes to his first name? I would keep it to “sir” for consistency.


Agreed.  Fixed.  Good attention to detail, Steve.  Thanks.


Quoted from CoopBazinga
Page 95: “Pulls out his Driver” Just wondered why the “d” is capitalised in driver? I wasn’t sure why? You capitalise it three more times but not on page 99. Just curious is all?


Simply for clarity of the reader, as "driver" has other meanings, so by Capping it, I wanted it clear I was referring to the Driver golf club.  

Thanks again, Steve.  Your words are appreciated, as are your insightful comments.  I'm glad you seemed to enjoy this.

If I can repay the favor, I'm all over it.  Take care and best of luck going forward.
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CoopBazinga
Posted: January 17th, 2012, 9:08am Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff,

I'm happy I was able to be of some help to you.


Quoted from Dreamscale
but wanted to address all of your well thought out feedback.


Thanks for that mate, I think I'm getting better at feedback now.


Quoted from Dreamscale
In a filmed version, I don't feel it would be at all jarring, as with visuals that we're going into another Flashback, it should be easy to follow and understand.


I agree with this completely.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Also, I thought it was important to show the the watches they each got, which plays a rather important, but most likely overlooked aspect to the final scene's lead in.


Sorry, but I must have overlooked this as well? Where did they come into play in the final scene's?


Quoted from Dreamscale
And finally, I wanted to get some good R rated nudity and sex on screen as soon as I could, although most do not seem to appreciate it anyways.


I'll be honest and say if any film has sex or nudity in the first minute, I'm normally sold and will watch it. I even watched Showgirls! What I'm saying is there's always someone out there to appreciate it, mostly men I would have thought though.


Quoted from Dreamscale
I just totally disagree, as I've said so many times already.  To me, Shauntee is such a cool character.  She's funny, cool, SEXY, and provides a recurring plot point (in dialogue) with a number of other characters, great R rated T&A, good character depth to Glenville outside of the plot at hand, and the reason why Glenville isn't with Addinton in the climax, when he should have been.  Yeah, I know, there's lots of other ways to attain all this, but for me, she works well, and serves her purpose exactly like I wanted her to.  It really surprises me so many don't like her and feel she's superfluous.  Oh well, looks like I'm in the vast minority here.


She was superfluous! . I think this is a case of the writer liking the character so much he couldn't bear to cut her out. At the end of the day, it's your story and characters so if you like them, then they stay. Just to clarify, I like Shauntee (Great name BTW) but she could definitely be cut and not affect the overall plot IMO. I know you will disagree but that's what these discussion boards are for right?


Quoted from Dreamscale
But keep in mind that the present time line takes place over a single day, much of which is taken up with Jack in the hospital, and in bad shape.  But, also, keep in mind that maybe Jack was aware of what went down deep inside and knew there was nothing he could do, but incriminate himself.  Then again, what could he realistically accomplish in such a short period of time?


Fair comment. I think I agree with you on this one.


Quoted from Dreamscale
His presence also was key to Addinton and Glenville's belief in Jack's story.


I never even thought about that. Woodie works even better for me now.


Quoted from Dreamscale
  HaHa...my personal favorite line!  Actually written as intended.  Kind of an inside joke...I'll tell you in a PM if you're interested.


I'm very interested and curious, let me know please?


Quoted from Dreamscale
Others have also said this, but I disagree, as Jimmy's death merely serves as a catalyst to jack's undoing years ago, and I didn't want to go into anymore detail, as I think it wold be dull and exposition...but I understand where you're coming from.


I understand what you mean about it being dull but like you say, it is the catalyst. It's the single one moment on which this story is based upon. If only to give the reader more sympathy for Jack, it makes the ending even more dramatic IMO. Jack who we sympathise for is actually the killer! What? It can't be? Just my thoughts.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Not sure how to answer this one.  No exact time or amount of days were given as to when they last spoke, but Jack was only on the island a total of 4 days, and didn't even meet Woodie until at least day 2.


Come on man! The writer should always have the answer!


Quoted from Dreamscale
Thanks again, Steve.  Your words are appreciated, as are your insightful comments.  I'm glad you seemed to enjoy this.


I'm just glad I was able to be helpful after all the time it's been up. I really enjoyed it, thanks again for sending me the updated version.

Have a good one.

Steve
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Dreamscale
Posted: January 17th, 2012, 11:03am Report to Moderator
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Hey Steve, you know I enjoy a good back and forth, so I'll address a few of your replies here, and I'll PM you about the "baby pussy" line later.

The Vegas scene and the watches

As I said earlier, this is the only time we see Jack and Mitch together in any detail, and therefor it's not only important, but imperative to showing who they are as individuals and friends.

After Jack and Mitch take care of the Vegas pimp thugs, the scene ends with Mitch saying, "Those are some nice wristwatches, gentlemen."  The next scene (in the present time line), has Jack showing off his Breitling watch and Mitch showing his Omega watch (which they obviously "took" from Nick and Joe in Vegas).

There's another Flashback scene later where Jack and Mitch are on Jack's patio with Julie, talking about their Vegas successes, including their "new" wristwatches.

Why does any of this matter?  Well, the astute reader/viewer who's been paying attention, will know immediately who kills Woodie in the climax, in the current time line, as all that's shown is a hand and arm, wearing a Breitling watch, slash Woodie's neck.  Otherwise, it's a 50/50 thang as to whether it was Jack or Mitch.

My darling Shauntee

A couple of comments here...

If you liked Shauntee as a character and you enjoy hot, sexy chicks who show their assets in R rated movies, and she serves numerous purposes to both the plot and the story, what do you have against her?  Is it better to have completely random chicks show their goods, for no other reason than to show some T & A?

But, my bigger issue is with many reviewers recommending that writers cut characters for this reason or that, or "blend" 2 or more characters into 1.  It always makes me laugh, as I just don't get it.

If a character has a purpose to serve and does indeed serve that/those purposes, and they're a likable character, cutting down the cast list, to me, at least, is foolish, unless you're talking about either a very low budget production, or you have a script with a cast of hundreds, and you literally need to cut the cast.

In this case, first of all, I'm not looking at a low budget production in any way.  Secondly, think about how small the cast actually is.  We know more about Shauntee than we do Julie.  Julie is obviously a much more pivotal character, and also has more onscreen time and dialogue, but Shauntee's character is much clearer in who she is and what she's after.

Basically, what I'm saying is that I'm really against cutting out characters for the fuck of it, as tiny cast movies come across as...well...tiny.  I personally try to infuse as much personality into every character as I can, and IMO, not every character has to be 100% crucial to the plot and story - but, as I said earlier, I do believe Shauntee and her more than abundant rack accomplishes what she needs to.  

Jimmy

You know, I guess this comes down to a personal choice I made, and it could even include Julie, as well.  Maybe it's not 100% clear, but this is Jack's story.  He's in every single scene (well, that's not 100% true, as there are several scenes involving only the cops, but Jack is still the center of attention in each of them), and each one of them are from his perspective, or POV, if you really think about it.  It's also Jack and Mitch's story, and that's really the reason for the bookended opening and closing montages.  To play up Jimmy's life and or death, and the relationship stuff involved with it, would take away from the "real story" here, or at least the story that I chose to tell.  Sure, I could include another Flashback or 2 of Jack and Julie grieving over Jimmy's death, but IMO, it's completely unnecessary.  Jimmy got hit by a car and killed.  Jack was to blame...and Jack blamed himself to the point where it pretty much destroyed his life and marriage.

Woodie's communication with Jack

I misspoke earlier and assumed it wasn't important enough to go into any detail.

First of all, I think it's important to understand that in any semi-decently written movie, there's always life going on behind the scene, when the camera stops rolling.  Characters do and say things that you aren't privy to, as there just isn't time to show everything that goes on, nor would anyone want to sit through that type of horseshit - kinda like watching a live 24 hour feed for Big Brother - no thanks, just show me what I need to see and I'll skip the other 72 hours of nothingness.

Jack talks to Woodie on the phone from the golf course, before he's to meet Julie at Harrison's Cave, later that afternoon.  Woodie's still "tailing her" at this time.  This is 1 day prior to the present time line, in which the exchange between Jack and Woodie takes place that you brought up.

Woodie's a deranged drug selling, drug using A-Hole.  These kind of peeps don't think or act rationally.  One minute, everything's fine, then, the next, he wants his money and he wants it immediately.

I have a feeling that the exact time frames of various Flashbacks are difficult to keep a handle on.  Now, in reality, it doesn't really matter exactly when this and that occurred, but it does take some effort to lay it down in its exact order, just like it often takes several viewings before certain things come to light in movies.

Hope that all makes sense.  I'll PM you later about the "baby pussy".

Thanks again, mate!  It's much appreciated.

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Felipe
Posted: March 24th, 2012, 10:55pm Report to Moderator
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I just retread the first 10 to give you some notes before I go further.

Before I start I'd like to say that as soon as I saw FADE IN: on the first page, I immediately HATED the script =D

Anyway... There seemed to be a lot of character introductions, which might be unavoidable, but it just means you have to give short descriptions for the next few times we see them or I won't remember exactly who is rotund and who is a cop.

The flash backs didn't seem to be giving much information until the one where his wife doesn't go in the water. That was the point that made me want to keep reading. Good job!

The dialogue could be trimmed a little bit and there was at least one instance of passive writing, but othing major.

Kudos!


'Artist' is not a term you should use to refer to yourself. Let others, and your work, do it for you.
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Dreamscale
Posted: March 26th, 2012, 9:27pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for starting, Felipe.  I hope you continue and I hope you enjoy it.

IMO, there aren't alot of characters in this script at all.  I purposely tried to limit the # of main characters, and wanted to get them all intro'd as early as I could.

I tend to like and write dialogue heavy scripts, as I feel it builds character, and whether or not everyone happens to like my characters, I hope you at least get to know them, and they come off as real, believable peeps.

I look forward to hearing your feedback on the rest.  Hope your 7Wc is coming along nicely.

Take care.
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: March 26th, 2012, 10:22pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Thanks for starting, Felipe.  I hope you continue and I hope you enjoy it.

IMO, there aren't alot of characters in this script at all.  I purposely tried to limit the # of main characters, and wanted to get them all intro'd as early as I could.

I tend to like and write dialogue heavy scripts, as I feel it builds character, and whether or not everyone happens to like my characters, I hope you at least get to know them, and they come off as real, believable peeps.

I look forward to hearing your feedback on the rest.  Hope your 7Wc is coming along nicely.

Take care.


Just want to X this one up as I see its resurrection on the board and I'm glad.

Jeff,

I watched a movie the other night...

You know that a movie night for me is an exceptional thing...

...and how many people that watch movies in limited fashion can say...

...that a movie reminds them...

...of a movie...

...they had first read...

...on Simplyscripts?

Although the storyline is very different; still, when I watched:

THE DESCENDANTS

I thought of UNFORGETTABLE by YOU, YOURS TRULY

For me what I think it was: WAS the strong music line. In Descendants, it was the haunting Hawaiian melody against the tragic circumstances. I guess it brought to mind your script because I really felt the emotion in Unforgettable. It wasn't merely a screwy-lewy device (which I hate!) but it came,, most certainly from the heart and you can't buy that kind of thing. It is or it isn't.  

Anyways, I'd love to hear your comments on this movie. Even if you happen to hate it. Just want you to know: I LOVED IT!!!

Here's the trailer:



Sandra

and I thought you should know because maybe just maybe your movie
can fall in this vein

and

if it can...

I want to be the first to say so!!!  







A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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Dreamscale
Posted: March 26th, 2012, 10:43pm Report to Moderator
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Thank you so much, Sandra.  That's awesome and means alot to me...it really does.

Believe it or not, but I haven't seen The Descendants, and probably won't be seeing it anytime soon.  From what i know of it, it's not my kind of film, but it's obviously done wonderful things for all involved.

For you or anyone, for that matter, to compare one of my scripts to an award winning George Clooney flick means the world to me.  I appreciate it very much.

Thanks you!

I miss seeing you around the boards and hope everything is going great with you and yours.
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: March 26th, 2012, 11:24pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Thank you so much, Sandra.  That's awesome and means alot to me...it really does.

Believe it or not, but I haven't seen The Descendants, and probably won't be seeing it anytime soon.  From what i know of it, it's not my kind of film, but it's obviously done wonderful things for all involved.

For you or anyone, for that matter, to compare one of my scripts to an award winning George Clooney flick means the world to me.  I appreciate it very much.

Thanks you!

I miss seeing you around the boards and hope everything is going great with you and yours.


I'm here and have been here, Jeff. You gave me a "good effort" on my last OWC, remember?  

I really did try hard to make it comprehensible: Real Counterfeit Witches of the Twenty-First Century

Truthfully, my first draft was prim and skim and almost proper, but when you're working hard, sometimes hard is too easy and you are seduced by impetuous darlings that tap your shoulder and even make their presence known in a way that is like butter next to plain bread: you cannot possibly refuse it. If you do, you think maybe you will be labelled a "passer". A PASSER cannot ever be anything.

Passers let the good things slide though their fingertips. Passers are self-righteous pretentious creatures that never know passion and might stay in their loveless reality.

Jeff,

You are not a Passer.

Your reality should NOT be loveless because you are rich in capacity.

I'm not interested in picking up a camera because my love is of words and language and what's underneath the language, but I might attempt bringing on a camera person and director for some of my scripts.

Tonight, I actually realized a dilemma with my last script:

Who is going to play Benny Malone and Aragetta? That sex scene even if only half/done is going to be difficult for the actors/actresses (unless they're me   ) however I do have some neighbors across the street that I know could do a really
good job, but I feel like I'd be putting the cart before the horse.

I know they would do it for me, but what would I say? " K I wrote this script and here and so..."

You know it really lets the cat out of the bag. You're never human ever again.

Really, I don't have a problem asking them, but still it feels like a bridge to cross.

Perhaps too, if I requested such scene, I might want just a little bit more and more and I know they would be happy to oblige and then...

Well then we're not in average-every-day-friendship-mode anymore.

Everything becomes complicated.

It already is complicated. How to deal with that?

Ach! Maybe just stick to computer generated stuff.

Sandra




A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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irish eyes
Posted: April 1st, 2012, 10:53pm Report to Moderator
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Jeff how`s it going bro?  as promised I would give it a read, I've been flat out at work, so I'm reading it in sections.

So far upto page 25... I noticed a lot of feedback...haven't read any besides Sandra's last and you are definately NOT a "Passer"     So excuse me if I repeat anything.

A few notes... by page 25... I counted 15 characters  and 9 flashbacks.... Personally i'm not a big fan of flashbacks... They are usually used as a cheap way to introduce exposition... But it can be used properly  like the movie The Fugitive, it has lot of flashbacks, but each pushes the story forward or wants you to know what's gonna happen next

The heated conversation with Julie and the Man works for me, as it drives the story forward.
Whereas on page 17 on the dining room table conversation really doesn't move it forward, we already know there is strain on their relationship... it was then pointed out with the pool flashback.

sometimes IMO a flashback becomes an interruption.

Should your main characters have more of a description?... Jack, Handsome Julie, gorgeous

kiss passionately in front of a priest

What is smash to black? just asking, I never heard of it.

Mitch   shouldn't he be a 6'6 black guy with a huge penis... sorry wrong script

I noticed you changed between double spacing and triple spacing a lot is there a reason for that?

Page 15 my own pet peeve... beat ... a like a more descriptive word... which adds more character IMO .... like (eyes mist up)

Sandiford puts his hand on Addinton's  shoulder... shouldn't that be on Jack? as he talks to him in the next dialogue.

page 22 watches as the ball tracks toward the hole...I think you mean "towards".

Ok that's all the minor stuff out the way.

The story itself is incredibly easy to read... It flows very smoothly and even with 15 characters I can still keep track of what`s happening.

The opening series of shots or montage.... reminded me of the pixer movie UP (you probably haven`t seen it unless you've got kids)...The opening montage started off beautiful and life is going to plan, meeting the girl of his dreams getting married and all these great plans and then BOOM she dies... try explaining that to your kids.
Your script had the same impact kind of WTF... but in a good way, it really threw me off and I loved it,  it just set itself up for the rest of the script..

I maybe wrong, but I can see Mitch playing a major part, maybe the other man...
Overall your descriptions and dialogue are top notch and I'm really looking forward to where it is going... which is top marks to the writer...

I'll try to finish it throughout the week, just slammed with work right now...But i'm really glad I got a start on it.

Mark


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Dreamscale
Posted: April 2nd, 2012, 10:51am Report to Moderator
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Hey Mark, thanks so much for giving this a look.  I appreciate it.  I don't want to spoil anythign, but I always reply to feedback, so here goes.


Quoted from irish eyes
A few notes... by page 25... I counted 15 characters  and 9 flashbacks.... Personally i'm not a big fan of flashbacks... They are usually used as a cheap way to introduce exposition...


A couple things here.  First of all, IMO, this is not a large cast script, although there are numerous characters who have small roles, and I do try and name every single character if they remotely deserve it.

Secondly, I do agree with you 100% about Flasbacks.  I'm not into them either, but you'll find that this script is far from a standard structure, and Flashbacks here are a separate time line story onto themselves.  There are definitely 2 different stories going on here - one in the present, and one in the past.  I understand that it can seem jarring on paper, but IMO, with proper visual ques, on film it will work rather seamlessly.  Once you get accustomed to it, or "accept" it, I think it should work rather uniquely.


Quoted from irish eyes
The heated conversation with Julie and the Man works for me, as it drives the story forward.  Whereas on page 17 on the dining room table conversation really doesn't move it forward, we already know there is strain on their relationship... it was then pointed out with the pool flashback.


Duly noted.  Keep in mind this "scene" is most likely less than 15 seconds long.  It does set something up to come later.


Quoted from irish eyes
sometimes IMO a flashback becomes an interruption.


You're not alone in this feeling.  Again, I purposely went for an alternate structure here and because it's something peeps aren't used to seeing, the initial reaction is that it's jarring.  Hopefully, once you settle in, it won't come off that way anymore, and you'll see that you're reading/watching 2 separate stories taking place at 2 different times.


Quoted from irish eyes
Should your main characters have more of a description?... Jack, Handsome Julie, gorgeous


It's a heavily debated topic.  IMO, a character's hair color, clothing, and the like are unimportant to the story - unless they are.  Here, they are not.  Many peeps will get very detailed in how a character looks, right down to dressing them in each scene. This isn't a Spec writer's job, IMO.  If something is important or comes into play, I'm all for showing it, but if not, I tend to give an exact age and some physical descriptor and that's that.



Quoted from irish eyes
What is smash to black? just asking, I never heard of it.


Simply a transition (which I rarely use and recommend against).  It typically follows a shocking scene and is used to convey more power to the final image you just witnessed.


Quoted from irish eyes
I noticed you changed between double spacing and triple spacing a lot is there a reason for that?


Not sure I understand.  If there's any discrepancy in spacing, it's a mistake that needs to be fixed.  What exactly are you referencing here?


Quoted from irish eyes
Page 15 my own pet peeve... beat ... a like a more descriptive word... which adds more character IMO .... like (eyes mist up)


I understand.  I use wrylies as sparingly as I can (I know, there's a shitload here up front, with the accents, which i will most likely replace with a general note, which should cut out some 15 lines, actually).  For me, the only time to use "(beat)" in dialogue is when there is a "real" pause in the dialogue that needs to be addressed.  In your example, I agree at the right time, in the right situation, a few action/description words can make a difference.  I don't see this as being one of those times, though.


Quoted from irish eyes
Sandiford puts his hand on Addinton's  shoulder... shouldn't that be on Jack? as he talks to him in the next dialogue.


Well, actually, he's trying to shut Addinton up, as in, "Enough already...let the guy rest."


Quoted from irish eyes
page 22 watches as the ball tracks toward the hole...I think you mean "towards".


"toward" and "towards" are actually both correct and interchangeable.  The "s" is more common in Britain than the US.


Quoted from irish eyes
The story itself is incredibly easy to read... It flows very smoothly and even with 15 characters I can still keep track of what`s happening.


Thanks.  That's always great to hear.


Quoted from irish eyes
The opening series of shots or montage.... reminded me of the pixer movie UP (you probably haven`t seen it unless you've got kids)...The opening montage started off beautiful and life is going to plan, meeting the girl of his dreams getting married and all these great plans and then BOOM she dies... try explaining that to your kids.


Nope, no kids, didn't see it.

But, there was no reference to Julie dying in this opening Montage.  You either misread something or misquoted what you meant here.  You may want to check it out again.


Quoted from irish eyes
Your script had the same impact kind of WTF... but in a good way, it really threw me off and I loved it,  it just set itself up for the rest of the script..


That's great to hear.  When you're finished, there are a few things I'll add, but don't want to say anything right now.


Quoted from irish eyes
I maybe wrong, but I can see Mitch playing a major part, maybe the other man...

I don't think it's spoiling anythign to say that Mitch is indeed a very important character here.  Jack would get top billing, closely followed by Mitch.

[quote=irish_eyes]Overall your descriptions and dialogue are top notch and I'm really looking forward to where it is going... which is top marks to the writer...


Cool.  Thanks.  Glad you're enjoying it.  Hope it doesn't let you down.

Thanks again, Mark.  talk with you later.


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irish eyes
Posted: April 2nd, 2012, 7:42pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from JC Cleveland
But, there was no reference to Julie dying in this opening Montage.  You either misread something or misquoted what you meant here.  You may want to check it out again.


Sorry buddy, but we are confusing each other, I should have been more clear... the montage i described was from "up" and I was comparing it to your montage of everything flowing beautifully then all of a sudden a kid gets hit by a car.. kind of the same impact...

I`m glad my feedback went through, as my computer crashed at the same time. I thought i had to write it again.

Slammed for work, but Ill try to finish towards the weekend..


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Dreamscale
Posted: April 2nd, 2012, 8:03pm Report to Moderator
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OK, gotcha...yeah, I didn't see Up.

Take your time, man.  Thanks again.
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irish eyes
Posted: April 4th, 2012, 12:24pm Report to Moderator
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Ok I read the rest.

As I noted before... flashbacks can be properly used, when they're moving the script forward and as I finished your script, you were totally correct in using them.


Quoted from JC Cleveland
Not sure I understand.  If there's any discrepancy in spacing, it's a mistake that needs to be fixed.  What exactly are you referencing here?


I noticed it in the dialogue when you started a new sentence... Maybe it`s just me probably nothing wrong with it... or it appeared to be treble-spacing.

The script:

I was pretty sure that Mitch was the other man, but the ending completely threw me off that he was in fact a ghost trying to make amends for screwing Jack's wife.

I wasn't a big fan of Julie, she was a miserable bitch, which I understand because of Jack's actions after the death of his son. I thought the Julie and Mitch scene at the end was a little lame IMO... both agreeing to end it so quickly... Kind of thanks for your troubles... I'm Jack's wife, I'm Jack's best friend we are fucking behind his back, lets move on like nothing happened.

The Vegas scene might have been unnecessary, but I love hot naked chicks.. So that`s good for me...

Also the cave scene felt a little heavy, with the whole rape... I thought she was asking if the water was warm and she was gonna strip down and climb in.... More nakedness(if that's a word) just not as heavy as a rape scene.

The cops Addington and Glenville, I really enjoyed the bond between them, they worked really well together and even Orlando chiming in with new info, all played out really well and kept the story moving.

Woodie was an interesting character.... I could see why you used him, drug dealer, scum and for false represention of the killer.

Jack being the protag and antag at the same time worked really well(rubbed his temples a few times too many) but overall he was well written.

Couldn't find little or any grammar mistakes... the writing was incredibly tight and very easy to read.

The script as a whole, was enjoyable and I would love to see it filmed.

For 7WC that's pretty impressive Jeff.

Enthralling from start to finish...

Finishing with the same montage as the start, that was genius.

Mark



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Dreamscale
Posted: April 5th, 2012, 2:37pm Report to Moderator
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Thank you, Mark.  Your feedback is greatly appreciated.  I'm glad you enjoyed it.

BTW, I like hot naked chicks as well.     I always try to include them in my writing.

Take care, bro!
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Yosef91
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Jeff,

I was bored at work and thought I would read a few pages to check out your work.  I was really impressed.  I read to page 20.

I thought the opening was a little slow.  Rather than show the "happy couple" stuff as much as you did, it may have more impact if you cut that down and went to the boy being hit by a car.  

Your writing is tight, and I enjoy the dialogue.  There were a couple of lines I would call on-the-nose, but overall solid.  

I hope I get a chance to read more tomorrow.
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Dreamscale
Posted: May 31st, 2012, 2:25pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Yosef, thanks for giving this a look.  This is actually an old draft, and if you're only 20 pages in, I could/should shoot youu the latest, final draft - let me know via PM, as I should have my computer set up tomorrow afternoon.

I've been travelling cross country from WI to AZ this week and jut in this morning.  Moving into a new houuse tomorrow and starting a new job next Monday - lots going on but I am thrilled to be back and rfeady to start living life again after being unemployed for a LONG TIME!

Hope you like the script.
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Doms
Posted: July 21st, 2012, 6:21pm Report to Moderator
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I don’t usually do this, but I feel the need to for this script: THERE WILL BE SPOILERS.

First off, Dreamscale: you suck. You heard me, you suck. I had that song stuck in my head for an entire day. So yeah, you suck.

I liked the script. I wanted to know what’d happen next. Not that I wanted to continues reading, but I was genuinely curious about the plot.

The single most powerful moment for me was the moment where Jack’s retailing of his memories veered from what he was telling Addington. Good stuff.

I liked the various twists and turns so that nothing stood out as obvious. There were no obvious red-herrings. I also like the setup of the dragonfly to prepare the reader for supernatural possibilities.

I liked that the fates of Jack and Addington weren’t given. No thriller should end neatly.

I also really like the closing montage of Jack and Mitch.

I think I should note that I remember all of the names of the main characters. I’ve never done that before. I usually forget most of them the moment I put the script down. Good job.

I did have a few issues.

  • The mother told Addington that it wasn’t too late to save the girl. I realize that the mother is used to prep the reader for supernatural things, but she shouldn’t be wrong. If she has spiritual insights, they should be right. I realize that you can’t say Julie is dead, but you can say something like, “she needs you to find her.”
  • Would workers at a place that really try to rob or rape people that could return to their boss?
  • I had no idea what a moke was. Not that you need to add a full description, but you could put in some small like about them being small, open-topped, jeeps.

Overall, I liked it and would watch the movie.
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DV44
Posted: July 26th, 2012, 10:50pm Report to Moderator
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Utter bulls**t , I'm supposed to feel sorry for a guy who hangs out on the beach all day and has flashbacks of traveling to Vegas. Suddenly my life is boring. Serious though, great job Jeff at story telling. I was sucked in from the beginning through to the end. Later man
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Dreamscale
Posted: July 27th, 2012, 9:03am Report to Moderator
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Hey Conrad, sorry for not responding earlier - hey, wait...I did respond earlier, but it was on a different thread.  

Anyways, as I did say earlier, thanks for reading.  I'm glad you enjoyed it.  Especially happy the dragonflies worked for you, as IMO, they were an integral part here.  As for the names of the characters, I spent quite a bit of time coming up with all the Bajan names, and did some research and then chose names that sounded like each character.  Addinton is one of my faves.

I look forward to reading one of your scripts when you get them all worked out.  Take care, man.

Hey DV, thanks for giving this a look.  I appreciate it.  As I keep saying, I really need to submit the latest final draft, as there are a few rather important changes.  Glad you enjoyed it.

Let me know when you get a script completed and I'll give it a read.
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nawazm11
Posted: November 26th, 2012, 6:19am Report to Moderator
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Just finished this, Jeff. I remember you sent me an updated draft early this year so I gave it a read.

I'll be brief. I enjoyed this, a lot actually. The ending is really my favourite part, great job there.

Better than Fade to White I should mention, at least IMO .

One thing I'll mention is that the first 40 pages or so were such a drag to get through. I literally shifted every 5 pages into a different position, just waiting until I got to a good part.

Solid script, Jeff.
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Dreamscale
Posted: November 26th, 2012, 10:02am Report to Moderator
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Hey Mo, thanks for reading.  Glad you liked it.

Bummed you sloggged through the first 40 pages, but as you probably know, I always backload my scripts and feel it's most important to end on a high note.  I didn't intend on boring you during the first 40 though.

I appreciate the read, man.  Very cool.  As you know, I was very impressed with your latest effort.  Way to go, bro!
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nawazm11
Posted: November 26th, 2012, 7:37pm Report to Moderator
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The first 40 pages weren't that bad but I'm easily distracted. If the writing here sucked badly, I would've quit already but it didn't and you, or anyone, could see this was from a good writer.

Also -- "You like what you see?  I definitely
like what I see.  You wanna eat my
baby pussy?  She's all yours."

. An iconic line from your scripts, Jeff. I swear to god I've seen this more than once in your scripts and it makes me laugh every time.

Thanks, Jeff! I'll be rewriting it this week and then posting it to SS. I've got a clear idea what I'm doing thanks to you and Coop.
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Dreamscale
Posted: November 26th, 2012, 8:24pm Report to Moderator
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You've only heard that line in other threads.  This is the only one actually in a script...as far as I know.

Funny...my favorite line for sure!
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nawazm11
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http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-collaborate/m-1246660936/s-0/

Here's one. I found this a while ago when I was looking through past killer game entries.
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Dreamscale
Posted: November 26th, 2012, 9:45pm Report to Moderator
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Mo, thank you...that is hilarious!  I forgot all about that.  I've even got the exact same named main character in that Lake Simply thing.  Maybe I channeled this game for Unforgettable?  I don't know.  That sure was one horny, sexually explicit game!  damn...
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slabstaa
Posted: December 19th, 2012, 12:47pm Report to Moderator
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Jeff, duder, you're just gonna have to send me your latest draft, man. (I got half way through this, and because of certain circumstances, could never finish it)
And while you're at it, send me your latest draft of Fade to White.
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Dreamscale
Posted: December 19th, 2012, 12:55pm Report to Moderator
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Happy Holidays, bro.  I'm on it.
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Oney.Mendoza
Posted: December 19th, 2012, 6:48pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff -

Send me your latest draft of this as well!

Thanks bro.

ONEY


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Dreamscale
Posted: December 19th, 2012, 10:56pm Report to Moderator
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A little upbeat light Holiday reading, coming your way, bro!

Hey, how's your script coming?  Looking forward to checking it out.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!!
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Oney.Mendoza
Posted: December 31st, 2012, 5:57pm Report to Moderator
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Hey man -

I haven't forgotten about this one!  Everytime I get around 20 pages or so I get really busy or someone/something distracts me.  I hate that, especially with this sort of script - I get the sense I MUST pay attention to lots of little things lol.  

Happy New Year man.

ONEY


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Pale Yellow
Posted: December 31st, 2012, 6:35pm Report to Moderator
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Oney pay attention and you are in for a treat....

it's gotta good ending

My fav Jeff Bush script
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crookedowl
Posted: January 3rd, 2013, 6:30pm Report to Moderator
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Jeff-- send me the latest draft too.

Will
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Dreamscale
Posted: January 3rd, 2013, 7:12pm Report to Moderator
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On its way now.  Hope you like it.
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Oney.Mendoza
Posted: January 4th, 2013, 6:26pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Jeff,

So I finally was able to finish this last night.  Wow, man, really… this was absolutely impressive considering you wrote this as a 7 week challenge.  I was really engaged in the story and really was inching to find out what really happened.  I do have a few negative notes to throw out before I dive into what I liked.

Okay.  Jack seemed to really love Julie so I didn’t buy that a man who was so invested in his fiancé would cheat on her in Vegas.  That rang false to me.  To boot, I didn’t particularly care for him after that whole Vegas scene.  I actually really didn’t care if he found Julie because frankly Julie wasn’t that likeable either – she was a bitch and sometimes a mega bitch.

I guessed early on that Mitch was having an affair with Julie and/or that he even possibly had some involvement with her disappearance.  For example; he avoided Glenville and Addington (although this is purposely set up to work out your twist so no biggy but still gives the readers suspicion) and Mitch just didn’t seem all too worried about finding Julie or Jack’s well being – “I’m here for you, Buddy.”… Oh! Let’s pour another round! Lol.

That’s about it really.  I just didn’t care for Jack, Mitch, or Julie… sorry.  But poor Jack – you gave him quite the life!  Cheating bitch wife, missing wife, amnesia, dead son, feeling responsible for that dead son, coke head – oh my!

I loved the location.  You used what you could in your page count – nice array of what the island holds imo.  I’ve never been but hell you really sold Harrison’s Cave to me.  Geesh, it really does sound wonderful dude.  I really dig island life; I go to Maui once a year so I enjoyed your locations of Tiki bars, beaches, etc.

I really liked Addington and Glenville.  They had nice chemistry together and played well off each other.  I bought that they were colleagues, even friends.  They were fun to read.  Very nice moments you added with Addington’s mother btw.

Speaking of Mrs. Harewood – was she some sort of clairvoyant?  How did she know that Addington would find Julie that night?  

Harrison’s Cave – absolutely tense scene man!  Perfectly set up and written imo.

Pg. 95: Jack “Yeah, BUDDY…God, you know how much I fucking hate hearing you call me BUDDY all the fucking time?”

Ha thank god someone called out Mitch on all that buddy nonsense  

Mitch being dead was a nice twist.  Honestly, I didn’t see this coming.  It made perfect sense as to why she was avoiding Glenville and Addington or why the other officers didn’t see him go into the gully.  Good closure.

I’m really impressed with your writing Jeff – FTW, to your Oct OWC, to this – you’ve got skills man.  I want to read another feature from you.  Is there anything I’m missing on here?  Write another feature! Lol

Talk soon buddy,

ONEY


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Vaproductions
Posted: January 6th, 2013, 10:43am Report to Moderator
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Hi Dreamscale. I thought it was only right that I should return a favor or 2 to your scripts.

1. CORBIN
Lena, I need medical over here, girl.
Got a man all roughed up.  Send an
officer, as well, please.

This line really sucks. Sounds like you forced the cr** out of it.  It could be better said like this.
Corbin
Lena, I gotta guy over here that needs medical help.  Send an ambulance right away!

Now doesn't that sound a whole lot better and a lot more precise?

2. My Mum taught me to
be well organized.

Your mum should've told you that mum is spelled Mom and it should be lower cased not capitalized.

3. Glenville speaks to much on the nose.  Have him loosen up a bit.

4. The best thing that I like  about your script is your action.  Not because it is highly interesting  or anything like that but because you wrote your action well. It's well written but it's not exciting at all.

Good day sir! Better luck next time.
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Dreamscale
Posted: January 6th, 2013, 10:48am Report to Moderator
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Thank you, VA.  I appreciate the feedback very much.
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RegularJohn
Posted: January 6th, 2013, 10:50am Report to Moderator
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And...that's how you accept criticism.


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Vaproductions
Posted: January 6th, 2013, 11:11am Report to Moderator
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See Regular John there's a huge difference in what I said to Dreamscale and what he said to me.  I told him negative notations about his script but I also told him something positive about his script. He did not do this for me.  He only gave me negative comments and this is what makes me more mature at the end of the day. There's always something positive that could be said about somebodies craft even if you hate most of it.
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nawazm11
Posted: January 6th, 2013, 10:38pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Vaproductions

Your mum should've told you that mum is spelled Mom and it should be lower cased not capitalized.


Hey, VA. Good to see you giving feedback.

I'm pretty sure Barbados uses British-English so technically, Jeff is correct in using "mum". It doesn't seem like there's a difference when you say it, but trust me, there is.
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danbotha
Posted: January 7th, 2013, 2:09am Report to Moderator
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Seems these arguments are jumping from thread to thread

Jeff, I owe you a read for your helpful notes on "He was the Enemy". Is this the latest draft up? If not can you send it to me at dan.treeboy(at)gmail.com.

You may as well send me a revised copy of 'Fade to White' while you're at it. I remember loving that one

Dan


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LC
Posted: January 7th, 2013, 3:42am Report to Moderator
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In the interests of not wanting to incite a riot I deleted my comment.

Have downloaded Jeff's script on Dena's ringing endorsement and will return with my thoughts a little later.


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Dreamscale
Posted: January 7th, 2013, 11:15am Report to Moderator
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Thanks, MO.  I was going to go into a few things like this and decided to just thank VA and move on.  You are definitely correct, though.

Dan, I'll send you latest drafts, but if you read these recently (from drafts I sent you), there's no difference.  Let me know with  PM or E-Mail.

Thanks guys!
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Dreamscale
Posted: January 7th, 2013, 2:50pm Report to Moderator
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Oney, you da man, brother.  Sorry for the delay in responding.

Thank you so much for reading and providing feedback.  I appreciate it.  Also, glad you enjoyed it.

I'll respond to some of your feedback in detail here.

You are not alone in your thoughts about the Vegas scene and cheating in general, but I do want to respond.  One thing to keep in mind is that this is the the earliest chronological event in the entire script (that is shown in detail).  you never once see Jack and Julie together before this so you really can't say how invested or not Jack is in his fiancee.

Now, one more thing I've said before, but feel like I have to again - believe it or not, peeps - both male and female - do things in Vegas and on Bachelor/Bachlorette Parties that they wouldn't any other time.  IMO, it does not make them bad people.  Also, keep in mind that Jack did not bring this on himself - Mitch set it all up and made it happen.  Jack was pretty much stuck in a situation that's almost impossible to say no to.

You're also not alone in not liking Julie, or even Mitch, for that matter.  I guess with Mitch, it's obvious why peeps wouldn't like him, but with Julie, I'm still not all that clear.  The Julie you see in the script has been through Hell and back again.  That doesn't make it right for her to be a "bitch", but it' been Jack that really caused all the problems, mostly which you don't see but do hear about.

One thing I really did want was the reader to "think" Mitch was the other man (which he definitely was).  It's a form of diversion, actually, in giving something rather obvious away, to distract from the real "secret".

I spent 7 or 8 nights on Barbados and it is a beautiful place.  All the locales are real, including Colina Del Mar - you can even see pics of it if you google it.  Glad you could visualize everything.

Also, very happy you liked Glenville and Addinton.  i like them too. Mrs. Harewood wasn't so much an actual clairvoyant, but she was teetering between life and death, and thus was able to "see" certain things.  The dragonflies were simply a way to meld the 2 worlds, so to speak, and introduce a supernatural element, that is made clear right near the end.

Thanks again , buddy.  I appreciate your words.  Let me know if I can help you out in any way.  
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Oney.Mendoza
Posted: January 8th, 2013, 6:04pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff,

Thanks for responding and clearing up some things.  Seriously, it's fantastic that you created this for a 7WC.

So I was enthralled on how you described the exterior of Harrison's Cave... I like architecture, etc.  and I was searching on instagram and found these really cool exterior shots of what you described in your script if anyone else was interested.  Gives you a better look this location and WOW man, haha... it's awesome.






And thanks Jeff - I might ask for help down the line if I run into trouble.  I haven't really decided what I'm going to be doing next for my next feature.  I appreciate the offer though.

ONEY


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Guest
Posted: February 1st, 2013, 1:41am Report to Moderator
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Flash Back City, that’s what this baby should have been called.  After finishing this, I think I was more disoriented than Jack himself.  Who can’t like a script where everyone just goes about getting plastered, coked up, and laid -- all on a tropical resort?  Sounds fun. . . and it might have been just that . . . but sadly I have to say I struggled through this pretty hard.  I liked the setting.  I could visualize everything.  I even pictured Jack and Mitch in flashy tropical clothes, with sunglasses, and straw-hats (of which there were none, but I pictured it anyway LOL).  The scenery was glorious, that’s for sure.

I just couldn’t get into the story.  I think I would have been more devoted to it if the whole affair/murder/mystery was totally excluded and we just went on a wild, drunken, cocaine-fueled ride with Jack and Mitch -- which we seem to get to an extent -- but that’s not the case, and we’re saddled with the Julie storyline.  Julie, a truly unlikable character, who our protagonist spends the entire story looking for.  Maybe I would like her a tiny tad if there were scenes where she actually tried to help Jack through his disastrous downward spiral, tried to patch up their marriage and heal things, but it seems the only thing she cared about was filling the empty hole in her life with Mitch’s big fat unforgettable penis.  Not cool. haha.

The final 5 pages is what really hooked me, when I realized Mitch had been dead the entire time and his image poofed into blue smoke and you knew he was supposed to be like the dragonfly.  That was great, really great.  I raced from there to see how it would all end. . . and thinking of the ending. . . I just don’t know.  I’ll have to ponder it more.  I’m not sure what to think of it.
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Dreamscale
Posted: February 1st, 2013, 12:57pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Reaper, thanks for the read and comments.  I've seen that you've been reading a few scripts as of late, and that's always cool.

Sorry this didn't work for you.  A number of peeps have said similar things about the partying being overly heavy.  I don't know what to say to that other than I guess everyone has their own ideas and experiences with partying.  For me?  Standard operating mode (back in the day, that is).

The "story" itself is rather simple and I think many want more, whereas I usually like the less is more approach.  I never try and reinvent any wheels...I just like showing different ways for those wheels to roll down the hill.

If you've got anything you'd like a look at, just let me know.  Glad to have you here at SS and look forward to seeing some of your work.

Thanks again.
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Guest
Posted: February 2nd, 2013, 3:30am Report to Moderator
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No problem here with heavy partying.  In fact, I think it would have worked better as just that and no amnesia/missing person/affair plot.  Seriously.  Maybe you should write another script where Jack and Mitch are in an alternate universe, spending most of the story half shot in the ass.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: April 2nd, 2013, 11:03am Report to Moderator
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Notes on Unforgettable.


Page 1 - I had to google what boof is, and I had to search with an extra keyword, being whitewater ... it's not even in my Oxford dictionary. I feel that if you are going to use a specialist word like that then you should educate as to what the word is with a following descriptive sentence. Unless white water rafting is the basis of the film then not everybody reading it is going to know what a boof is.

Jack and Julie? Come on man... get more inventive with those names. Use google.


Page -3

JACK
(groggily)
I...I...don't know. Where am I?

He's just regained consciousness, no need to write groggily as it goes without saying.


Page - 6

You mention the triple 'J' team, turning it into a joke, but all it really does is show me how the two J names are playing on your mind too. You'd be better off deleting that part of the conversation and doing a search and replace on one of their names. If it were me, I'd change Julie.



Page - 9

Multicolored FISH swim
freely around him, everywhere.

Is it possible for fish to swim and not be free? Also there is no need for both 'around him' and 'everywhere'. Not unless there is some dramatic purpose in mind for an extra shot showing fish 'everywhere' as well as all around him. Consider rewording the sentence.


Page - 15

DR. SANDIFORD
Alright. I think you should rest
now, Jack. Let's not overdue it.
These things take time.

Read the above dialogue again.

Page - 16

Julie stands, picks up her empty plate and glass, walks
inside, without a glance.
JULIE
I'm going to do some shopping while
you're golfing. We'll hook up later.

Jack watches as she disappears inside. He shakes his head.


According to the first block of action she has already gone inside. You should omit that from the first block of action and simply have her 'walk away'. then the dialogue, then Jack watching her walk inside.


Page - 33

A DRAGONFLY lights on the table in front of her.

Shouldn't it be lands?

Page -41

I don't feel that Jack showed enough emotion concerning his son's death.


Page -44

ADDINTON
I didn't say anything about arresting
you. I asked it if was yours.

Needs rewording ^^^^^


Page - 48

I like the dragonfly thing... it's cute.


Page - 88

Jack jumps in the Moke. Next to him, his helmet and head
lamp sit. He pulls off the head lamp, secures it to his
head, starts the vehicle.

He secures the headlamp to his head?


Page 100 + I think the montage is a little much at the end.


Over all I enjoyed reading this script. It's very true to its genre. I really liked how Mitch is actually dead, it helps explain the sudden memory jogs whenever he was around. I think you could have made Mitch look more like the suspect to take us off the trail of Jack a little more. Cleverly done and well executed for the most part. Thanks for sharing. I also haven't read any previous comments, so I apologise if I'm repeating anything.
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Dreamscale
Posted: April 2nd, 2013, 11:38am Report to Moderator
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Hey Dustin, thanks for reading and providing notes.  I appreciate it.  I had a feeling you'd get to one of mine sooner or later.

I really need to replace this old version with the final draft, as I've been saying for quite awhile.  This is the original version that was posted after the 2010 7WC.  In case you're not familiar with what that means, it was a challenge that a few of us put together (with Pia in charge) in which we were given a genre and theme and had 7 weeks to conceive and write a feature script.  The latest draft isn't all that different but there are a few corrections, additions, and clarifications here and there.

I'm not going to hit on all your notes, as some are obvious mistakes and others opinions (and I definitely see your points), but some I will comment on.

The names - funny, as I actually spend alot of time with names that fit my characters.  You probably noticed that I did do alot of research on this, including Bajan names.  Jack and Julie Benton are character names from an old novel I wrote back in the late 80's.  I always liked those names (and the those characters) and wanted to use them in something else, thus, here they are.

The headlamp issue - the headlamp is attached to the helmet.  Basically, it's a "Petzl" type lamp, so it's easily removable from the helmet and is meant to be worn around the head as well.

The final montage - this was an idea I had early on and the idea is to bookend the script with the same scene, shown a bit differently.  In the intro montage, the reader/viewer is hopefully assuming the two unseen and unnamed characters are Jack and Julie (once Jack is intro'd and it's clear his memory and wife are both missing).  The outro montage shows that it was actually Jack and Mitch who did all that stuff together, hopefully making the whole ordeal more disturbing...or interesting.

Anyways, again, I appreciate your feedback and look forward to being able to give you some as well, when you post your work.  If I can help in any way prior to that, let me know.

Take care, bro.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: April 2nd, 2013, 11:59am Report to Moderator
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Ah, I wasn't aware that this was written that long ago... I'm just going through the top forum list and so far it seems that the more replies there are the better the script is going to be. Although not always true. Thanks for the education on the headlamp.

I'll be posting work here as soon as I figure out how to do that, thanks.
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Dreamscale
Posted: April 2nd, 2013, 12:25pm Report to Moderator
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Posting is quite simple, but I think it's closed currently. There should be a "post your work here" button somewhere...or numerous places.

If you see any other scripts of kine you're interested in, let me know up front and I'll forward you the latest draft, as some have changed significantly.

Good to have you aboard, mate!
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the goose
Posted: July 9th, 2013, 6:34am Report to Moderator
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-- SPOILERS --

I was sent this by Jeff so had no idea what it was about or the fact that it was written for a 7wc. Sometimes it is nice to enter something without having a clue what its about.
First of all kudos to the research, it can be a joy for some writers and an absolute pain in the arse for others, but you've clearly put a lot into this and it is of course a much better script for it.

It flows nicely, and while there is a lot of action you've spaced it out well enough to flow, although some don't like things to be too spacey (as it eats up pages and makes a piece of work look longer than it is) I'm not too fussed either way. I was quite surprised to see you use such things as 'NOTE - MONTAGE RUNS TO END OF SONG' (or whatever it was) it just seemed like something you'd be against. As well as using a montage in general, although I'm thinking maybe that was one of the rules for the 7WC?

The bit with Addinton's mother passing away was well-written and very sad. Does he die in the end himself after the stabbing or is that left open,? I liked all of the police officer characters, whereas I couldn't care much for Mitch, Jack and Julie at all so I wasn't really too fussed about their fate in the slightest - although I'm sure others would have been more interested by them. The dialogue between the Bajans is excellent by the way.

Julie came across as a bitch who wasn't going to put any effort in at all, although I can see how she'd maybe be like that after Jack's antics. I don't really have much in common with a pair of cocaine addicts either so I didn't really empathise with them too much.

I actually didn't see the Mitch being a ghost thing coming, however I did have some idea that he would be having it away with Julie. Now I think back though only Jack saw Mitch, so this is clever - I take it the 'cell' phone conversations were in his head? It did change the tone of the script lightly, going from a tourists abroad thriller to a ghost story. Now, of course, there was always a slightly paranormal tint with the dragonflies and the old lady but the Mitch reveal turned it from a lightly tinted piece to a full on supernatural thriller.

I could quite believe Jack turning into this nutty killer after hearing his back story, and as aforementioned I was pleased when the police man, Glenville was it, sunk a few bullets into him. I think the whole way through it was always fairly obvious that Jack had a seedy edge to him, in retrospect it was pretty apparent that he was involved in Julie's disappearance from the off. Which may have been what you wanted to convey, perhaps if Jack was painted in a more innocent light - with his dark past hidden, it may have made him a little more likeable to the audience or at least they might have been more surprised when he turned out to be a madman.

I did wonder, at one point, whether Mitch was Julie's lover and was just pretending to be Jack's best mate - playing off of his amnesia. I thought that maybe he was going to try get close to Jack and dispatch him so that he and Julie could run off into the sunset together. Might have been an interesting route to have taken, could have been concealed, but of course the ending of this actual script was a far cry from that so would have meant a complete change.

Unfortunately I got distracted while reading this and because of that I missed a few things - who is it who kills Woodie? What ultimately happens to the three men who attacked Jack and Julie? Did Jack actually strike a deal with Woodie in the end? I thought maybe those three men might have been part of a set up made to make Jack look like a hero?

Also, is Jack a trained fighter? Does he have some sort of boxing or martial arts background? I know ultimately it is only a story but it takes some going to take on the three men like he did, and I don't know many average joes who could do that.


"We don't make movies for critics, since they don't pay to see them anyhow."

-- Charles Bronson.

Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
the goose  -  July 9th, 2013, 7:03am
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Guest
Posted: July 9th, 2013, 1:47pm Report to Moderator
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You should have Jeff send you the latest Fade to White draft.

I remember the one I read (years ago) was a bloody good read.  

Way better than Unforgettable... not that Unforgettable sucks or anything  
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Dreamscale
Posted: July 9th, 2013, 3:39pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Harry, thanks for the read and feedback.  It’s always appreciated.  Can’t quite tell if you enjoyed this or not.  I’ll respond to your questions and comments.

Quoted from the goose
First of all kudos to the research, it can be a joy for some writers and an absolute pain in the arse for others, but you've clearly put a lot into this and it is of course a much better script for it.

Yeah, I did do a bunch of research for this.  I also spent 7 nights on Barbados awhile back and really loved it.


Quoted from the goose
It flows nicely, and while there is a lot of action you've spaced it out well enough to flow, although some don't like things to be too spacey (as it eats up pages and makes a piece of work look longer than it is) I'm not too fussed either way.


This has a very nonstandard structure, especially with all the Flashbacks.  Basically, it’s a story being told in 2 time periods – the present and the past.  I tend to like talky scripts (and movies) and use dialogue to build character.  I understand and realize there is a lot of “stuff” here that many may say isn’t necessary.


Quoted from the goose
  I was quite surprised to see you use such things as 'NOTE - MONTAGE RUNS TO END OF SONG' (or whatever it was) it just seemed like something you'd be against. As well as using a montage in general, although I'm thinking maybe that was one of the rules for the 7WC?


No, this was definitely not part of the challenge.  I couldn’t get the montage to run as long as I needed in terms of page length to match up with the song, so I just wanted to be clear.  Actually, I always am all for writers being as clear as possible, any way they can or have to.  I have nothing against montages at all, actually, but I rarely use them.


Quoted from the goose
  The bit with Addinton's mother passing away was well-written and very sad. Does he die in the end himself after the stabbing or is that left open,?

Glad you liked Addinton’s Mum.  I like her as well, and have to admit to feeling sad myself when I read this over.  I think everything’s open to interpretation in a script or a movie, but I can tell you he lives through his stabbing.  That’s why he speaks to Glenville at the end – so you “know” he survived.


Quoted from the goose
   I liked all of the police officer characters, whereas I couldn't care much for Mitch, Jack and Julie at all so I wasn't really too fussed about their fate in the slightest - although I'm sure others would have been more interested by them. The dialogue between the Bajans is excellent by the way.


Glad you liked the officers and Bajans.  It was fun writing them.  You’re not alone in your dislike of the main characters, Jack, Mitch, and Julie.


Quoted from the goose
  Julie came across as a bitch who wasn't going to put any effort in at all, although I can see how she'd maybe be like that after Jack's antics. I don't really have much in common with a pair of cocaine addicts either so I didn't really empathise with them too much.


Again, I’ve heard these same comments quite a bit, and I’m always surprised by them.  With Julie, I guess I can understand, as you really only see her in a negative light, due to what’s happened to her relationship with Jack, but in reality, she’s not a bitch.  But, Jack and Mitch?  I don’t know.  I like them both, as they’re both cool peeps in my book.  They’re not cocaine addicts, although they’ve both been known to enjoy the cola…as well as the liquor…and the girls.  I understand some/many may not be able to relate to their antics, but on the same hand, I bet there are countless real individuals you know and like, but don’t see this side of – as in, there is a side to everyone that very few actually see.  Here, it’s front and center and important to the story.


Quoted from the goose
  I actually didn't see the Mitch being a ghost thing coming, however I did have some idea that he would be having it away with Julie. Now I think back though only Jack saw Mitch, so this is clever - I take it the 'cell' phone conversations were in his head? It did change the tone of the script lightly, going from a tourists abroad thriller to a ghost story. Now, of course, there was always a slightly paranormal tint with the dragonflies and the old lady but the Mitch reveal turned it from a lightly tinted piece to a full on supernatural thriller.


Actually, I wanted peeps to believe they had figured things out with Mitch being the other man, and I used this as a reverse type red herring in an unusual way – to hide the fact that he was much more than just the other man. You are correct – in the current timeline, Mitch only interacts with Jack onscreen.  Others have questioned the cell phone usage, the vodka drinking, and the cocaine use.  My answer is still the same – all those things actually happened.  Although Mitch was dead and a ghost here, he was able to manipulate certain real life “things”, much the same way you’ve seen in any ghost stories, where the ghost makes things move, etc.  My take on the classic revenge ghost story, I guess, told in an off kilter manner.


Quoted from the goose
  I could quite believe Jack turning into this nutty killer after hearing his back story, and as aforementioned I was pleased when the police man, Glenville was it, sunk a few bullets into him. I think the whole way through it was always fairly obvious that Jack had a seedy edge to him, in retrospect it was pretty apparent that he was involved in Julie's disappearance from the off. Which may have been what you wanted to convey, perhaps if Jack was painted in a more innocent light - with his dark past hidden, it may have made him a little more likeable to the audience or at least they might have been more surprised when he turned out to be a madman.


Well, again, the twist I wanted to conceal was what actually happened and the how and why, as opposed to the who.  Actually, the more the reader finds out about Mitch, the more I wanted the blame shifted.  In terms of Jack becoming a “madman” or “nutty killer”, I don’t know.  I don’t see it that way.  Although far from an excuse, remember, Jack went through quite a bit the day he killed Mitch.  And also, remember, that in reality, he didn’t kill Julie – he actually tried to save her when she slipped over the edge of the dropoff.  When he was found at the car rental, he truly didn’t know what had happened.  He obviously lost it completely and the booze, the coke, the fight in the cave, and all the recessed feelings of guilt and grief over losing his son all came pounding to the forefront.


Quoted from the goose
  I did wonder, at one point, whether Mitch was Julie's lover and was just pretending to be Jack's best mate - playing off of his amnesia. I thought that maybe he was going to try get close to Jack and dispatch him so that he and Julie could run off into the sunset together. Might have been an interesting route to have taken, could have been concealed, but of course the ending of this actual script was a far cry from that so would have meant a complete change.


No, Jack and Mitch were truly best buds, all through their life, actually.  In college, Mitch was the first to hook up with Julie, but all 3 were great friends.  It was Mitch’s issues with commitment and drug use that led Julie to break off the relationship, and in stepped Jack.  Years later, then it was Jack who went off the deep end and in stepped Mitch.  As Julie says near the end – one big crazy circle, really.


Quoted from the goose
  Unfortunately I got distracted while reading this and because of that I missed a few things - who is it who kills Woodie? What ultimately happens to the three men who attacked Jack and Julie? Did Jack actually strike a deal with Woodie in the end? I thought maybe those three men might have been part of a set up made to make Jack look like a hero?


Woodie is killed by Jack.  The way you’d know this is based on the watch on the wrist of the killer, which again ties back into the Vegas Flashback scene.  If you think about it, you have to understand that Mitch was already dead at this point.  We don’t find out what happens to Morris, Kean, and Rawle.  Jack thinks he killed at least 1 of them.  It would be tough for them to go to the police, considering that it was them who set the whole thing up in the caves.  Jack had a deal with Woodie, but Woodie kept pushing for more.  Woodie knew too much and as Jack spiraled out of control (the last night of his life, in the current time line), he realized he had to kill Woodie to potentially save himself.


Quoted from the goose
  Also, is Jack a trained fighter? Does he have some sort of boxing or martial arts background? I know ultimately it is only a story but it takes some going to take on the three men like he did, and I don't know many average joes who could do that.


Well, we definitely don’t know anything about Jack’s fighting training, but the Vegas Flashback actually is there (among other reasons) to show what Jack (and Mitch) are capable of.  Remember, they took on 2 thugs in their room without even thinking about it.  Trust me, there are definitely peeps out there exactly like this, just as there are peeps out there who’ll turn over and play dead when confronted.  Also, understand that in the cave scene, he didn’t have too many options and he was protecting his wife, whom he really did love.  He took quite a beating there and what ultimately happened, is definitely a bi-product of what happened in the cave – in more ways than one, actually.

Thanks again, Harry. If I can help with anything on any of your scripts, just let me know.

Take care, bro.
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crookedowl
Posted: July 9th, 2013, 4:13pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff, I've been meaning to get a review up for months but I totally forgot until I saw this thread at the top of the portal.

You sent me the newest draft a while back and I really enjoyed it. I think I read it in a single sitting then ended up going back and skimming through it a second time. I rarely read scripts around here for pleasure, but I got a kick out of this one.

I hate to leave "reviews" like this, but I was pretty impressed with almost all aspects of this, and I don't have anything to add at this point. From the amount of research that must have gone into this to the story structure... it's well done all around, especially for something originally written in 7 weeks.

Nice job on this one.

Will
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Dreamscale
Posted: July 9th, 2013, 4:23pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks, Will.  I actually was wondering if you ever read it because I do remember sending it your way.

Don't worry about the lack of review.  I'm glad you enjoyed it.



Reaper, I know you didn't like this, but I have to say that as much as I do love Fade to White, I think I like this one better, at least in terms of story and structure.

I do appreciate the shout at to Fade, though, brother.  Thanks.
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the goose
Posted: July 9th, 2013, 4:56pm Report to Moderator
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- spoilers -

With regards to enjoyment if this was a film I'd probably recommend it to a friend for the good twists, although I don't know if it would break into my top 50 - I'd probably recommend it as a twist thriller as I would with 'A Perfect Getaway' maybe.

With Addinton speaking at the end I was aware he was alive then, but I wasn't sure as to whether he was 'dying' as in he was about to snuff it just as we hit the end.

With regards to cocaine addicts I thought that Jack had a major problem with cocaine after his son's death? That led me to think that he was an addict, and as you mentioned Julie did ditch Mitch due to his addiction.  Yeah, with regards to relating to people like that you'd be surprised - sadly a lot of good kids that I grew up with got a bit too keen on their chemical persuasions and ended up going off the rails almost irreparably. Not all of them, but some, it was enough to keep me away from party drugs at any rate. In my university days though I did know lots of guys like Jack and Mitch and yeah there are an awful lot of people who just have a good time and it doesn't really go any further.

Yeah I knew that Mitch and Jack were best buds, but I meant that earlier in the script I thought maybe Mitch was just playing off his amnesia as he was the other man. I thought maybe he'd be the secret lover and was looking to build up Jack's trust, get him to a secluded location and bump him off etc. Obviously not as it turned up.

Yeah you're right about the flashback now I think about it, with regards to Jack being a top scrapper.


"We don't make movies for critics, since they don't pay to see them anyhow."

-- Charles Bronson.
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the goose
Posted: July 9th, 2013, 5:00pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Guest
You should have Jeff send you the latest Fade to White draft.

I remember the one I read (years ago) was a bloody good read.  

Way better than Unforgettable... not that Unforgettable sucks or anything  


haha yeah Jeff email me Fade to White latest if you get the chance!

P.S. Reaper I don't think it is meant like this, but it does sound like the biggest suck up post ever haha!


"We don't make movies for critics, since they don't pay to see them anyhow."

-- Charles Bronson.
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Dreamscale
Posted: July 9th, 2013, 5:07pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from the goose
P.S. Reaper I don't think it is meant like this, but it does sound like the biggest suck up post ever haha!


Ha!  I know The Reaper too well, and I can guarantee you he ain't no suck up!
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Guest
Posted: July 9th, 2013, 10:14pm Report to Moderator
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Hahaha.  Yeah, Jeffro and I go back a little bit.  

He's one of the first people on here that gave me some serious input (and a real confidence booster) on a script I wrote a few years back.

Don't want to steer the thread off course, so let's return to the discussion of the absolutely forgettable Unforgettable.  lol you know I only poke fun, Jeff.  
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rolo
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*** SPOILER ALERT! *** PLEASE DON'T READ THIS REVIEW IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE SCRIPT!!

Story/Structure
This is an interesting story well told! Structurally, it was solid. That said, I did find the numerous FLASHBACKS a little jarring and they slowed the read down somewhat. Obviously, this particular story, an amnesiac man struggling to regain his memory in order to find his missing wife, demands the use of FLASHBACKS!  On screen, I think they'd work fine! In script form they're a tad cumbersome imo.

One suggestion worth considering would be to use SUPERS to indicate the particular time period the FLASHBACK takes place. In its current form, I'm not sure the various ages we meet Jack and Julie, 25, 29, 32, 35 etc - Would translate to screen that well, without the use of SUPERS, as physically I'd doubt that they would change that much over such a relatively short timespan.

Characters
The characters were generally well drawn. To me they seemed like real people rather than movie people. Julie for example, came across as a real bitch at times, yet, given what she has been through, her behavior was perfectly understandable.

Similarly, Jack felt equally real to me. I liked the fact that he went into self-destruct mode after the tragic loss of his three-year-old son, Jimmy. I've seen countless movies and TV shows were a couple experience the loss of a beloved child. Typically, the child's mother will be overcome with grief. Yet, for some reason the child's father seems to just take it on the chin!! In a TV movie, yes. In real life, not a chance!!

It's also worth noting that most of the other characters all seemed to have their own lives and where not just there merely as a function to serve Jack's story. Addinton coming to terms with the imminent loss of his elderly mother etc.

Dialog
This was also good. No two characters sounded alike. Plenty of nice banter etc. My only real quibble was Mitch's line near the end: "My work here is done." It reminded me of one of the quirky psychic's lines from 'Poltergesit'!

Story
I had an idea where this story was heading early on - In that I felt Jack was directly responsible for Julie's disappearance! However, because you made me care about Jack, I was hoping I was wrong! And when Morris and his cronies attacked Jack and Julie at the Bath House, I felt a sense of relief in that I thought my suspicions about him, (Jack) were wrong!

Similarly, the ending didn't play out as I expected. Largely, because of Mrs. Harewood's premonitions about Addinton finding Julie alive. Just curious, has the story always played out with Julie dead in every draft? Either way, good job. Wasn't expecting it!

One thing that relates more to character than story is that Jack's character never arcs. Because of his amnesia, he goes on this journey of self-discovery - Ultimately learns that he killed his best friend Mitch and was partly responsible for Julie's death too (though he did try to save her). Rather than be repulsed by his actions he goes into self-preservation mode and kills Woodie and stabs Addinton.

One suggestion would be to try make the ending more powerful. What if Jack was so repulsed by his murderous deeds that not only is he physically sick, he sees the errors of his ways and sacrifices himself in some way. Maybe he doesn't kill Woodie and when Woodie subsequently tries to shoot Addinton, Jack steps in front of him. Takes a bullet for him. Dies a good guy.

Either way, it's a good story regardless! Good job

Fade To White Vs Unforgettable

Jeff, having read both of these. I think Fade to White is a crisper read! That said, I personally think Unforgettable is the better story and thus stronger script. It has more layers, more depth. The character work is stronger. There are a ton of emotions at play in this story: Love, Jealousy, Revenge, Guilt, Regret etc.

YOUR WRITING
At times, your writing reminds me stylistically of acclaimed screenwriter Travis Beacham - in that it's concise, yet vivid and very visual.




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Pale Yellow
Posted: July 28th, 2013, 4:53pm Report to Moderator
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I think Unforgettable is my favorite of the two also. I love the twisty ending.

Jeff...you should be writing in your spare time man. You're good!
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Dreamscale
Posted: July 29th, 2013, 10:04am Report to Moderator
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Hey Gary, thanks for the read and feedback.  I like the way you provide feedback and love your SPOILER ALERT.  I used to do that, but have gotten very lazy over the years.  I’ll try and remember to throw those out when I give feedback next.

Thanks for the compliments and glad you enjoyed this script.


Quoted from rolo
One suggestion worth considering would be to use SUPERS to indicate the particular time period the FLASHBACK takes place. In its current form, I'm not sure the various ages we meet Jack and Julie, 25, 29, 32, 35 etc - Would translate to screen that well, without the use of SUPERS, as physically I'd doubt that they would change that much over such a relatively short timespan.


Good point, but I decided against this early on, as there were just too many.  I understand completely that on paper, it may be tough to completely follow, but I think with visuals, it will be rather simple to know where and when we are.


Quoted from rolo
The characters were generally well drawn. To me they seemed like real people rather than movie people. Julie for example, came across as a real bitch at times, yet, given what she has been through, her behavior was perfectly understandable.

Similarly, Jack felt equally real to me. I liked the fact that he went into self-destruct mode after the tragic loss of his three-year-old son, Jimmy. I've seen countless movies and TV shows were a couple experience the loss of a beloved child. Typically, the child's mother will be overcome with grief. Yet, for some reason the child's father seems to just take it on the chin!! In a TV movie, yes. In real life, not a chance!!

It's also worth noting that most of the other characters all seemed to have their own lives and where not just their merely as a function to serve Jack's story. Addinton coming to terms with the imminent loss of his elderly mother etc.


Thank you.  Good to hear.  I always try very hard to give life to my characters.


Quoted from rolo
I had an idea where this story was heading early on - In that I felt Jack was directly responsible for Julie's disappearance! However, because you made me care about Jack, I was hoping I was wrong! And when Morris and his cronies attacked Jack and Julie at the Bath House, I felt a sense of relief in that I thought my suspicions about him, (Jack) were wrong!

Similarly, the ending didn't play out as I expected. Largely, because of Mrs. Harewood's premonitions about Addinton finding Julie alive. Just curious, has the story always played out with Julie dead in every draft? Either way, good job. Wasn't expecting it!


Cool.  Thanks.  Actually, Jack’s “involvement”, or the assumption that he’s involved, is kind of a red herring I threw out to take away from the “real” twist.

Julie has been dead from the very beginning of the script’s inception.  IMO, finding her alive would be rather cliché, or possibly, even expected, and I didn’t want anything to play out as expected.  Also, it’s a dark and sad tale, and I’m not one for typical Hollywood endings.  My philosophy?  Kill ‘em all!  LOL!!!


Quoted from rolo
One thing that relates more to character than story is that Jack's character never arcs. Because of his amnesia, he goes on this journey of self-discovery - Ultimately learns that he killed his best friend Mitch and was partly responsible for Julie's death too (though he did try to save her). Rather than be repulsed by his actions he goes into self-preservation mode and kills Woodie and stabs Addinton.


To be completely honest, I am not one for character arcs, nor do I attempt to include them in my writing.  But, IMO, there is an arc of sorts, as you laid out above.  Jack had completely blocked out his son’s death, just as he blocked out the events of a few nights ago, so his life had really been devoid of pretty much everything after Jimmy died.  He didn’t understand why Julie “lost her love” for him, and really didn’t even “remember” she was cheating on him.  He was the blame all the way around, and he got his in the end as well, as what comes around, always seems to go around.


Quoted from rolo
One suggestion would be to try make the ending more powerful. What if Jack was so repulsed by his murderous deeds that not only is he physically sick, he sees the errors of his ways and sacrifices himself in some way. Maybe he doesn't kill Woodie and when Woodie subsequently tries to shoot Addinton, Jack steps in front of him. Takes a bullet for him. Dies a good guy.


I appreciate the idea, but again, as said above, this is a dark, sad tale and Jack had become a dark shell of the man he was.  No redeeming himself or his character.


Quoted from rolo
YOUR WRITING at times, your writing reminds me stylistically of acclaimed screenwriter Travis Beacham - in that it's concise, yet vivid and very visual.  


Thanks Gary!  I appreciate that very much.  I’ll be posting feedback to Offline later today.
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Leegion
Posted: September 11th, 2013, 4:38pm Report to Moderator
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Okay, Jeff, I just read this and... well, still letting it sink in but I have enough thoughts to write a coherent review.

I really enjoyed this, from start to finish.  The mystery, the amnesia-ridden protagonist incapable of remembering his past, slowly untangling a web of memories as the story progresses to deliver an impactful blow on the overall appeal of the character.

Jack, first off, exceptionally well written and memorable.  His dilemma was exciting, fresh and thrilling, not knowing who he "really was" until the end certainly upped the excitement factor of this tale.

Mitch, fun-loving, care free, quite the charmer and humorous character.  Had some defining moments, and I kinda suspected him to be the "lover" early on, as he was always dodging the cops.

However, and SPOILER ALERT, his twist at the end was one I NEVER saw coming.  There was nothing supernatural about the script until that point, and when it was uncovered I seriously didn't know how to react to it.  I was stunned, shocked and astonished at the same time.

It's always great when a writer does that IMO.  Brings a new element into play right at the final whistle that completely rewrites everything we've read, and this happened in an exceptionally GOOD WAY.

Addinton, loved his character, what can I say, I just like emotionally driven characters with something worth fighting for.  His scenes with his mother, the friendships he had and the arc his character had were excellently crafted.

The scene with his mother at the end of that specific story arc was well written and beautiful.  Even though I didn't truly know the mother as a character, it still brought an emotional response because Addinton was written so damn well.

Glenville, he was fun to read and follow throughout the tale, had a good character, hit with Shantee etc.  Great secondary protagonist, I really bought the friendship between him and Addinton.

Julie, not that we see her much, but she had an awesome arc.  The rape sequence at the cave was nail-biting, and she put up a damn good fight.  Her story was twisted and dark, but also relatable.

Husband and Wife lose their son, Jimmy, to a hit-and-run, slowly drift apart, become different people, and the latter finds comfort in the arms of another.  Definitely something I know would happen in real life, so it certainly worked out for the best here.

Woodie, mysterious and dangerous, his arc was rather eerie.  Guy in the shadows, seemingly pulling all the strings, set up to be the main antagonist, only becomes nothing more than a martyr for "SPOILER'S" revenge driven conquest to regain his "spoiler" and uncover the past.

Other characters served their purposes well, Addinton's sons, Addy, Jimmy's scene, the doctor, Shauntee and Nailah, all fit in well and served the plot in one way or another.

Story:  Emotionally investing.  I wanted to know what happened with Jack, from start to finish there was a mystery that kept me hooked, it latched me onto the plot and never allowed me to take a break.

It will likely play on my mind for a few weeks, maybe months, because I was heavily invested in the plot and the characters.

Format, writing:  Expert, taught me a lot about how to write action scenes and dialogue, very easy to read to, not that I really know what a stalactite is, but a quick browse through the dictionary and I found it.  Also helps to know what the things are in caves, as I wrote them as "columns", lol.  

--------------------------------------------------

I really did enjoy it, and see that many others have too.  I especially liked, no, loved the double-twist at the end.  One minute it was like "whoa, damn" and the next when the knife came into play I was like "err... holy hell, what just happened?".

Really good stuff here.  I didn't see the ending coming.  Makes for a very nice, relaxing and interesting read, could also make for one helluva movie, which I would watch on premiere night.

All in all, this was exciting, fresh and expertly crafted.

It was a pleasure reading it, Jeff, and I hope to one day see this on the big screen.

-Lee
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 12th, 2013, 10:06am Report to Moderator
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Lee, thanks so much for reading and providing feedback.  I really appreciate it.

You made my day, bro, with all your kind words and compliments.  Glad you enjoyed this.  I like it as well, and characters like Addinton, are my favorite I've ever written.

THis was originally written as part of a 7WC (7 week challenge), that Pia ran a number of years ago.  Pia's entry, Blackout, has already been filmed and released on Blu Ray.

Let me knnow if I can help you going forward in any way.

Take care, Lee.
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oJOHNNYoNUTSo
Posted: October 6th, 2013, 2:42pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff,

I've noticed a pattern to your scripts.  You are very good in applying symbols in all the right places.  From the dragonfly to the "blood halo" (which was fantastic!), it complements another crafty display of symmetry to your writings.  Again, you take a character's previous goals, and put them into the position that turns pages.

The flashback structure was obviously necessary to the plot, and for the most part advanced the story.  Sometimes they felt jarring, but they weren't irrelevant to what was going on either.

I like how you subtly challenged the integrity of Woodie's character in regards to Jack's lifestyle, but overall it didn't pay off the way I had expected.  Glenville/Shauntee didn't feel that important and seemed to be a device for taking him away from action.  But the way you described her rack was worth it, lol!  Leave it in.

You displayed a stylish vibe without a ton of description.  A good use of slugs.  For a 7WC, I am beyond impressed and really felt I was in a place I have never been.  Seems you've hit the books or drew from fun experiences, great effort.

Addinton was part of some well-written scenes.  The way he interacted with Jack stood out.  I was onboard with his character.

I couldn't stop turning the page with the cave scene.  But with Julie/Mitch dialogue in the gully, I thought Julie's dialogue regarding the rape was too on the nose, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't warrant the connection.  It examines her motives for going back to Jack too literally.

Overall, this was an excellent story with thought-out scene weave.  The opening sequence was a good icebreaker for the flashbacks and the characters were interesting enough to find out what happens next.  It was a decent twist ending, but I was expecting something a little more high stakes.  What else you got?  lol

Later,

Johnny





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Dreamscale
Posted: October 7th, 2013, 12:55pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from oJOHNNYoNUTSo
I've noticed a pattern to your scripts.  You are very good in applying symbols in all the right places.  From the dragonfly to the "blood halo" (which was fantastic!), it complements another crafty display of symmetry to your writings.  Again, you take a character's previous goals, and put them into the position that turns pages.

The flashback structure was obviously necessary to the plot, and for the most part advanced the story.  Sometimes they felt jarring, but they weren't irrelevant to what was going on either.

I like how you subtly challenged the integrity of Woodie's character in regards to Jack's lifestyle, but overall it didn't pay off the way I had expected.  Glenville/Shauntee didn't feel that important and seemed to be a device for taking him away from action.  But the way you described her rack was worth it, lol!  Leave it in.

You displayed a stylish vibe without a ton of description.  A good use of slugs.  For a 7WC, I am beyond impressed and really felt I was in a place I have never been.  Seems you've hit the books or drew from fun experiences, great effort.

Addinton was part of some well-written scenes.  The way he interacted with Jack stood out.  I was onboard with his character.

I couldn't stop turning the page with the cave scene.  But with Julie/Mitch dialogue in the gully, I thought Julie's dialogue regarding the rape was too on the nose, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't warrant the connection.  It examines her motives for going back to Jack too literally.

Overall, this was an excellent story with thought-out scene weave.  The opening sequence was a good icebreaker for the flashbacks and the characters were interesting enough to find out what happens next.  It was a decent twist ending, but I was expecting something a little more high stakes.


Johnny, a always, thank you for reading and providing such well thought out feedback.

You've come a long way in both your feedback and your writing, Johnny, and I for one am thoroughly impressed.

I hear your concerns and criticisms.  This is really a very simple story which is made less simple in the way it's told, which is a combination of real time and Flashbacks.  I made a decision when structuring this that I was going to risk alienating my readers by using serious heavy Flashbacks and tell this in several timelines, making it appear to be more than it really is.  It's a mystery that we get to solve along with Jack, Addinton, and Glenville in real time, while learning the facts through Flashbacks, all of which come directly from Jack's POV.

You are not alone in questioning my island sexy girl, Shawntee's reasons for being.  Personally, I like her here in several ways - I like the sexuality she brings, and I like that she humanizes Glenville, and gives him a life outside of just being a cop. I also think she's cool and rather funny.  Finally, like you noted, she's key to the finale, in that Addinton is on his own early on, only to be saved by Glenville.

As for the twist ending and the lack of higher stakes, I'm not sure what to say exactly.  Yes, it does play out like a twist for sure and that was indeed intended, but as noted earlier, it's only a twist because of the structure and the order we learn of past events.  Also, as I've said a few times in the past, Mitch's involvement is rather telegraphed and intentially so, serving as a form of a red herring - as in, you definitely think he's guilty in some way, but by thinking that, you actually miss out on the real situation, that's he's been dead the whole time.  Kind of like, "give a crook $100, and don't let him know you've actually got $1,000 in the other pocket."  The higher stakes part is what it is here, I think.  The stakes are quite simple - Julie's missing, what happened to her.

Thanks agin, bro.  As you know, I'm always available to bounce something off.

Take care.  

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NickSedario
Posted: April 3rd, 2014, 6:10pm Report to Moderator
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Damn-fine formatting.    A good reference script for any newbies out there wondering how a screenplay should look.  Myself included.  Sometimes I forget.
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Dreamscale
Posted: April 3rd, 2014, 7:01pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks, Nick.

This is a very old draft, actually.  Anyone interested in a new one, give me a PM.   How's that for a plug?  
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DanC
Posted: May 15th, 2015, 1:09pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Jeff,

I thought I'd read a bit at a time.  I'm gonna tackle a long one, Unforgettable.  
As someone who has done montages in the movie I did for my thesis, you might want to give a bit of an explanation as to when they change.  Is it by verse, by lyric etc.

1.  Wow, you have people on the bottom of the ocean, dolphins coming up, all this cost money...   Not that my stuff doesn't, but, working with animals is expensive and unpredictable.

2.  Wow, now that's how you end a montage!  Death.  On page 2, so that's good.

3.  Page 2, you have Jack, now 35.  On your Super, you should show that age difference too.

4.  I'm on page 11, you show Jack at different ages.  As a viewer, I always find it hard to follow if the time period isn't shown.  I mean, how is the director gonna show the change?  I'd add the date.

5.  Page 17 I know the flashbacks are supposed to give us the back story, but, honestly, you have a lot of them.  I think it distracts.  Unless something important happens, I think I'd take out one or 2.  Like the one where she tells him that she's gonna shop while he plays golf.  What is the importance?  Even if something happens later, why do we need to know that particular flashback?

6.  Why couldn't Nailia give her statement at work?  People give statements all the time to the cops.  They write it down and contact them further if they need to.

7.  Page 19, I don't buy it.  If he's that beat up, he shouldn't be out of bed.  He isn't legally released.  And also, if he goes MIA, wouldn't that look bad to the cops?  So, Jack is in his muddy clothes?  And they beat him up, but, left his wallet full of cash and credit cards?  Like I said, don't really buy it.

8.  Page 20 Kinda confused, Jules is pregnant for this trip right?  I can understand why she wouldn't want to skinny dip with him... But, you never mention that, or have her look at her pregnant belly and sigh.  These flashbacks really get confusing.  When in time was this last one?  She's clearly not happy with him.

9.  Page 22 when Julie calls him on the golf course.  You might want to give some sort of emotional tell how Julie takes his 79 score.  Does she care or is she placating him?  That would go a long way into her mind frame.   IF I had to guess, she paid to have herself abducted and beat him up b/c she isn't happy anymore.  Lets see how close to the truth I come.

10.  Page 24, so that death was their son.  I have to say, I don't understand how any marriage could survive the death of a child when one can't even recall that.  I don't see how Jules could have gone through that alone.

11.  Is this police work correctly researched?  I mean, here in the states, they would have had all this information within hours.  I don't know how many days it has been since they found him, but, it seems slow.

12.  Page 55 you have him say "To the Jules' well being."  Isn't it "To Jules' well being."?

13.  Page 81, you say Rawle lunges at Jack, who sidesteps his attack, and jumps on his back, arms wrapped tightly around his neck.   I think the way you have it written, Rawle is the first his, meaning he is behind Jack with his arms wrapped around his neck.  At least, that's how I understand it, the english language can be tough, I screw up all the time, but, I thought first mentioned automatically becomes the first his in the same sentence b/c you created a respectively chain.  

14.  Not crazy about the way you have the fight set up.  I know fight scenes are really hard, and I'm not sure I can tell u how to make it better, but, it seems murky to me.

15.  page 88, why wouldn't they have taken Woody's car from earlier?  I mean, he's a prime suspect as far as they know, his car was there, I don't know why they wouldn't have towed it away or put a boot on it or had a cop hide and wait with the car.  

16.  I notice you have a lot of animals doing specific things.  Again, they are unpredictable and I'd be careful, you don't have an expensive movie, well the cave scene looks expensive, but, you might want to tone it back.  

17.  Page 89, why would Woodie say Hello my little friend, do you want to play with woodie?  Seems odd, actually the entire thing seems odd.  You have this mystery hand, yet, we know that's the watch that Jack took off that wanna-be-thief.

18.  Wait, Jack and Mitch are hanging out, is that current, your flashbacks and odd way of doing stuff has me a bit lost.  So, Jack didn't kill Woodie?  It was Mitch?  


19.  Whoa, some best friend.  Wow.

20.  Can the monkeys interact with the humans, or are they in a cage?  Monkeys can be very dangerous.  Kinda lost here.

I hated the ending.  I get the wrap up and the closure, but, we don't get to see  Glenville set Julie free.  The dragonfly needs to be here.  I really enjoyed it up to the end.

Also I'm sure you checked the whole Mitch thing to make sure that no one else saw him or interacted with him.  Since he's a figment of Jack's imagination, that's fine, but, what about the phone call at the beginning?  

I think instead of showing Jack and Mitch, you should show the love he had for Julie doing all those things, and when Jack and Julie get married, perhaps she looks at Mitch and that's why the tear rolls down her face.  She loved both men, and both men loved her.  A very sad triangle.  Or show Julie with Mitch at times doing those things.  There are a lot of things you can do, I just felt empty at the end b/c you tied up the beginning montage, but, it's meaningless b/c you didn't fulfill the promises that Glenville's mom had set up.  Yes, he shot and killed Jack, but, Julie needs to be put to rest and set free.

Again, it isn't that I didn't like the story.  The main story is really good.  It's a deep plot and it makes sense.  I just didn't like the ending.  I mean, is the story about betrayal or about a stone cold killer?  You should have his wife in one of the montages at the end.  

You have Jack as the main and he's so in love with Julie that he murders his best friend in cold blood, yet, you have his final thoughts be to his best friend, and not one thought on her.  Add in the fact that I doubt the triangle truly started with the death of his son, and I think an "aha" moment where he realizes that his best friend was always too close to his wife could be really effective for the ending.

Great job.
Dan


Please read my scripts:
http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-series/m-1427564706/

I'm interested in reading animation, horror, sci fy, suspense, fantasy, and anything that is good.  I enjoy writing the same.  Looking to team with anyone!

Thanks
Dan
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Dreamscale
Posted: May 15th, 2015, 6:36pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Dan, thanks so much for reading and providing feedback.  Much appreciated, and as I promised, I'll look over your stuff when you're ready.

I'll respond to your notes where necessary.


Quoted from DanC
As someone who has done montages in the movie I did for my thesis, you might want to give a bit of an explanation as to when they change.  Is it by verse, by lyric etc.


Personally, I don't feel that's the writer's job, as it doesn't affect anything, really.


Quoted from DanC
Wow, you have people on the bottom of the ocean, dolphins coming up, all this cost money...   Not that my stuff doesn't, but, working with animals is expensive and unpredictable.


This is not intended to be a low budget script.  In fact, I’m looking at somewhere near $10 Million.


Quoted from DanC
Page 2, you have Jack, now 35.  On your Super, you should show that age difference too.


This is where the story begins, so the assumption is present day.  The opening montage is really where the titles would show.


Quoted from DanC
I'm on page 11, you show Jack at different ages.  As a viewer, I always find it hard to follow if the time period isn't shown.


Obviously, there are a lot of Flashbacks here and this really runs over 2 time periods – the past and the present.  Each time there’s a Flashback, it should be obvious, based on the transition, but in reality, it doesn’t matter exactly when each Flashback took place.


Quoted from DanC
I mean, how is the director gonna show the change?


What change?  The change in character’s age?  Through makeup…we’re talking about a max of 10 years, between 25 and 35 years of age, but many of the Flashbacks are only 6 or 7 years, so shouldn’t be an issue.


Quoted from DanC
I'd add the date.


I made a conscious decision not to use SUPERS, other than at the very beginning to make it clear where we are.  Using dates in Slugs is not correct and does not transfer to film.


Quoted from DanC
Page 17 I know the flashbacks are supposed to give us the back story, but, honestly, you have a lot of them.  I think it distracts.  Unless something important happens, I think I'd take out one or 2.  Like the one where she tells him that she's gonna shop while he plays golf.  What is the importance?  Even if something happens later, why do we need to know that particular flashback?


The entire script is set up like it is for a reason, and I understand that everyone will not enjoy that setup – sounds like you’re one of those who is not, and I’m sorry it’s not working for you.  

You are correct…many of the Flashbacks are not necessary, nor are many of the scenes in the present day.  In reality, only a handful of scenes in any script are completely necessary, but if we only include scenes that are 100% necessary, we wouldn’t have any 90 – 120 minute movies.  There’s a reason for everything here, however subtle it may be.


Quoted from DanC
Why couldn't Nailia give her statement at work?  People give statements all the time to the cops.  They write it down and contact them further if they need to.


This is Barbados and things on the island move at a different pace and in a different way.  Remember, she had a police sketch artist draw the picture of the man she saw with Julie, and that could not have happened unless she came back to the station.


Quoted from DanC
Page 19, I don't buy it.  If he's that beat up, he shouldn't be out of bed.  He isn't legally released.  And also, if he goes MIA, wouldn't that look bad to the cops?  So, Jack is in his muddy clothes?  And they beat him up, but, left his wallet full of cash and credit cards?  Like I said, don't really buy it.


You’re making a lot of assumptions here, Dan.  At this point in the script, you have no idea how beat up he is, who beat him up, or what happened to land him here at all.  As we later learn, Addinton is not pleased Jack left the hospital like he did, but as Dr. Sandiford says later, Jack was not being held and was free to do as he pleased.


Quoted from DanC
Page 20 Kinda confused, Jules is pregnant for this trip right?  I can understand why she wouldn't want to skinny dip with him... But, you never mention that, or have her look at her pregnant belly and sigh.  These flashbacks really get confusing.  When in time was this last one?  She's clearly not happy with him.


No, Julie is definitely not pregnant…not sure why you would think that.  If there’s no age given to the characters, the Flashback is simply a few days earlier, on the trip.


Quoted from DanC
Page 22 when Julie calls him on the golf course.  You might want to give some sort of emotional tell how Julie takes his 79 score.  Does she care or is she placating him?  That would go a long way into her mind frame.   IF I had to guess, she paid to have herself abducted and beat him up b/c she isn't happy anymore.  Lets see how close to the truth I come.


IMO, Julie’s reaction is very clear that she doesn’t really give a shit how Jack played, or what he’s doing.  Your guess was obviously pretty far off, my friend.  LOL.  


Quoted from DanC
Page 24, so that death was their son.  I have to say, I don't understand how any marriage could survive the death of a child when one can't even recall that.  I don't see how Jules could have gone through that alone.


Well, this marriage obviously didn’t survive, and in reality, Julie didn’t go through it alone, thus her affair.


Quoted from DanC
Is this police work correctly researched?  I mean, here in the states, they would have had all this information within hours.  I don't know how many days it has been since they found him, but, it seems slow.


First of all, we’re talking about a little island in the Caribbean.  More importantly, this is still the same day Jack was found at the car rental place, and only several hours have passed.  I don’t know how much faster anything could really go, but again, we’re not in the states here.  In reality, in the current time frame story, less than a whole day is all that takes place.


Quoted from DanC
Page 55 you have him say "To the Jules' well being."  Isn't it "To Jules' well being."?


They’re referring to her as “the”, as in the one and only “Jules”.


Quoted from DanC
Page 81, you say Rawle lunges at Jack, who sidesteps his attack, and jumps on his back, arms wrapped tightly around his neck.   I think the way you have it written, Rawle is the first his, meaning he is behind Jack with his arms wrapped around his neck.  At least, that's how I understand it, the english language can be tough, I screw up all the time, but, I thought first mentioned automatically becomes the first his in the same sentence b/c you created a respectively chain.


Rawle is the “his” each time here.  


Quoted from DanC
Not crazy about the way you have the fight set up.  I know fight scenes are really hard, and I'm not sure I can tell u how to make it better, but, it seems murky to me.


Sorry about that.  I tried to make it as clear as possible.  What is murky to you?  What don’t you get?


Quoted from DanC
page 88, why wouldn't they have taken Woody's car from earlier?  I mean, he's a prime suspect as far as they know, his car was there, I don't know why they wouldn't have towed it away or put a boot on it or had a cop hide and wait with the car.


Again, this isn’t the states and they don’t have a huge force to work with.  There are already several men working this case, and they don’t even know for sure if a crime has been committed.  As Glenville says earlier, he actually had Woody awhile back but let him go with less than a slap on the wrist, as this is how they operate here.


Quoted from DanC
I notice you have a lot of animals doing specific things.  Again, they are unpredictable and I'd be careful, you don't have an expensive movie, well the cave scene looks expensive, but, you might want to tone it back.


As noted earlier, this is in no way intended to be a low budget script/movie.


Quoted from DanC
Page 89, why would Woodie say Hello my little friend, do you want to play with woodie?  Seems odd, actually the entire thing seems odd.  You have this mystery hand, yet, we know that's the watch that Jack took off that wanna-be-thief.


Woodie is not a nice guy.  He’s saying this to the monkey, and when he draws his knife, he’s obviously saying…or maybe joking, that he’s going to kill the monkey.  The incomplete reveal on the killing arm is to see if you’ve paid attention, and it sounds like you have.


Quoted from DanC
Wait, Jack and Mitch are hanging out, is that current, your flashbacks and odd way of doing stuff has me a bit lost.  So, Jack didn't kill Woodie?  It was Mitch?


Are Jack and Mitch hanging out?  Not sure what you mean.  If there isn’t a FLASHBACK, then it’s definitely current.  Why are you saying you now think Mitch killed Woodie?


Quoted from DanC
Can the monkeys interact with the humans, or are they in a cage?  Monkeys can be very dangerous.  Kinda lost here.


In cages?  What gave you that impression?  Not a single word about any cages.  The monkeys live here…they’re free to do whatever they want to.


Quoted from DanC
I hated the ending.  I get the wrap up and the closure, but, we don't get to see  Glenville set Julie free.  The dragonfly needs to be here.  I really enjoyed it up to the end.


Sorry to hear that, Dan.  It was Addinton’s Mom who had the visions, and obviously, she was not correct, completely, but then again, that’s assuming that “setting Julie free” means she was still alive…maybe Julie’s soul was set free when Jack remembered and paid with his own life.  The dragonfly is near the end, on Page 97.


Quoted from DanC
Also I'm sure you checked the whole Mitch thing to make sure that no one else saw him or interacted with him.  Since he's a figment of Jack's imagination, that's fine, but, what about the phone call at the beginning?


Mitch does not interact with anyone except Jack, but he’s not a figment of Jack’s imagination.  I guess you didn’t quite get it…


Quoted from DanC
I think instead of showing Jack and Mitch, you should show the love he had for Julie doing all those things, and when Jack and Julie get married, perhaps she looks at Mitch and that's why the tear rolls down her face.  She loved both men, and both men loved her.  A very sad triangle.  Or show Julie with Mitch at times doing those things.  There are a lot of things you can do, I just felt empty at the end b/c you tied up the beginning montage, but, it's meaningless b/c you didn't fulfill the promises that Glenville's mom had set up.  Yes, he shot and killed Jack, but, Julie needs to be put to rest and set free.


The assumption when watching the beginning montage is that it is Jack and Julie, which makes the reveal in the ending montage that it was actually Jack and Mitch much more interesting…to me, at least.  Again, you’re getting Addinton and Glenville mixed up for some reason.  And it was Julie’s (and Mitch’s ) souls that needed to be set free, not their physical bodies.


Quoted from DanC
I mean, is the story about betrayal or about a stone cold killer?  You should have his wife in one of the montages at the end.


Really, it's about neither.  Jack is not a stone cold killer - he was extremely wasted on coke and booze, he was messed up by the boys in the cave, and he himself messed up and wen't a little crazy when he saw Mitch with Julie.  I wouldn't even say he intended to kill MItch...at first...and he definitely tried to save Julie, but when he saw she was dead and Mitch was all fucked up, again, he lost it, and committed the coldest of murders possible, which is why Mitch can't let him get away with it.


Quoted from DanC
You have Jack as the main and he's so in love with Julie that he murders his best friend in cold blood, yet, you have his final thoughts be to his best friend, and not one thought on her.  Add in the fact that I doubt the triangle truly started with the death of his son, and I think an "aha" moment where he realizes that his best friend was always too close to his wife could be really effective for the ending.


Again, yes, he definitely murdered Mitch in cold blood, but, it wasn't what he was intending and he wasn't in a rational state of mind when he did kill him.  His final thoughts through the montage do include Julie, but again, he tried to save Julie..he killed Mitch, so his thoughts were of him, and of his guilt for doing what he did.

Thanks again, bro.  Hope that makes sense. If you don't understand about Mitch not being a figment of Jack's imagination, let me know and I'll tell you what you missed.

Take care.
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DanC
Posted: May 15th, 2015, 7:16pm Report to Moderator
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So, Mitch was a ghost then?  I went back and forth with that idea.  You didn't have ghosts anywhere else in the story.  Whether he's a ghost or its his soul crying out from beyond the grave.

I won't debate most of what you wrote, it's your story and your explanations are fine.

having never been to the island, I thought the monkeys were behind cages.  Monkeys are very strong and at times ill-natured creatures.  I thought they would have been too dangerous to have walk around freely.  

I know you hate the slugs showing age and whatnot, but, you do A LOT of jumping around.  It might make it easier for the reader and the director to have ages.  Or have a "tell" that lets us know we are going in the past.  I think sometimes, I got confused as to whether or not it was current, slightly past, really past (full 10 years) etc.  

All I will say, the death of the child was the catalyst for the affair, but, it's never that cut and dry.  There were most likely hints long before they entered into the affair.

You're story is good, very well planned, I just didn't think the payoff at the end didn't tie off all the loose ends.  Why have the cop's mom have the visions if they aren't correct?  

You also said something to the effect that if you cut out everything that didn't need to be, it wouldn't be long enough.  Better to have 75 incredible pages then 120 so so pages, right?  

Talk to you soon
Dan


Please read my scripts:
http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-series/m-1427564706/

I'm interested in reading animation, horror, sci fy, suspense, fantasy, and anything that is good.  I enjoy writing the same.  Looking to team with anyone!

Thanks
Dan
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Dreamscale
Posted: May 15th, 2015, 8:16pm Report to Moderator
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Yes, Mitch was a ghost.  For me, the give aways were the way he was able to manipulate certain things/items/etc.  Also, when he was at Colina Del Mar, before jack got there, he did some coke, and said, "Damn, I'm gonna miss this".  But the biggest giveaway was at the end, when his "spirit" vaporized down into his grave.

About Addinton's Mom's visions - you could say they were a red herring, or you could say they were a wild goose chase, but she was on her death bed, and she had a connection to this recent killing...somehow...hey...it's the movies, right?     Set her free or set her soul free...could be one and the same.

As for the page count and having it all be "incredible", no, I disagree completely.  Every script and movie has its own pace, and every script and movie should be at least 90 pages/90 minutes, IMO.

If you watch alot of movies and pay close attention, I think you'll see what I'm talking about.  Or maybe, it's just my own personal opinion.

I prefer movies and rides where there's ups, downs, and plenty of downtime.  Like skiing, where riding the lifts is 1/3 of the fun.  Or playing golf, where in between shots, you have time to think and hang with your buds.  Or riding a rollercoaster, where heading up the long hills may actually be more exciting than speeding down the big drops...without those "long, "boring" climbs, the drops don't have the same impact.

Thanks, bro.  Let me know when you want me to look at some of your stuff.

Enjoy the weekend.


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