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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Thriller Scripts  ›  Lapse - 7WC Moderators: bert
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Don
Posted: September 8th, 2010, 5:10pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Lapse - 7WC by Ray - Thriller - FBI agent Elliot fights the Mexican drug cartel and American mafia to save the life of an informant to uncover the mole somewhere inside the US Marshals or the FBI itself. Instead, she uncovers a greater conspiracy. 101 pages - pdf, format


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RayW
Posted: September 8th, 2010, 6:08pm Report to Moderator
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Thank you, Don!

SS: Please help me get this where I want it to go!

Of course this will need to be re-written a few times.
I'm shooting for something a budding Jerry Bruckheimer would wanna shoot.
Maybe Antoine Fuqua, if I could be so fortunate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_Fuqua
Peter Berg would be fine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Berg

A simple, yet multi-elemented story.
PG-13 action & language.
Nothing for little kids or highbrow critics.
Great for the $5 WalMart bin.
Runnin' and gunnin' with a fair bit of humor thrown in.
No smattering the camera lens with brains and blood.
$30 - $60M budget.

The following actors display the personalities and demographics of the characters in the story.
Madison Elliot -
Diane Kruger , Hillary Swank,
Amanda Peet , Rachel McAdams




Jo Parker -
Amanda Seyfried , Emma Roberts




Mike Brady -
Justin Long , Joseph Gordon Levitt



Paul "Goldie" Rossio -
Javier Bardem , Jeremy Piven




Sam Parker -
Liam Neeson , Jeff Bridges ,
Hugh Laurie


Big Frankie -
Penn Jillette , Vince Vaughn
Liev Schreiber , Clive Owen



Max -
Luis Guzman

I generic anyone else for any of the other characters.
Nothing special unless someone comes to your mind.
I'm all ears, so to speak.

Comparable films and styles:
Shooter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooter_(film) Lame, but made a buck.
The Kingdom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kingdom_(film) I love this film. Pretty sure this story ain't nowhere near it, but I like the craftsmanship and hope to emulate.
The Sentinel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sentinel_(2006_film) I'm afraid this story is too close to something of this caliber. Been there. Done that. It was luke-warm this time. "Lapse" ain't makin' it any better. Whatchagonnado?
I'm pretty sure this can't be kicked up into a Lethal Weapon orbit, but the pace and humor should be about the same/similar.

Not a lot of CGI.
Soundtrack could go a long way. Kinda my biggest weak spot, anyway.

Please help get me there.
Thank you for reading.
Sincerely.




Revision History (1 edits)
RayW  -  September 8th, 2010, 6:52pm
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Coding Herman
Posted: September 8th, 2010, 7:19pm Report to Moderator
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I don't know, man, but Jeff would laugh his head off at your last post.

I just skimmed through your first page. I think there's a better way to show convoys departing at three different locations. It just feels weird on screen when you have three consecutive titles but then they all look the same.

I'll finish reading yours asap.


FEATURE:

Memwipe
- Sci-Fi, Action, Thriller (114 pages) - In a world where memories can be erased by request, a Memory Erasing Specialist desperately searches for the culprit when his wife becomes a target for erasure -- with his former colleagues hot on his trail.
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RayW
Posted: September 8th, 2010, 7:24pm Report to Moderator
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Yeah, but on screen three different prisons look like... three different prisons!

United States Penitentiary, Beaumont, Texas


United States Penitentiary, Tucson, Arizona


United States Penitentiary, Marion, California


Jeff and I aren't dating any more, so... let 'em rip.




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RayW  -  September 8th, 2010, 8:49pm
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Dreamscale
Posted: September 8th, 2010, 7:35pm Report to Moderator
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Oh I got quite a snicker when I saw that post, Herman.  Still giggling like a school girl, actually.

I also read the first page, and had the exact thoughts...and about 24 more.  I don't think Ray wants me to comment on his script, so I'll stay quiet as a mouse.  I'll try to at least.
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seamus19382
Posted: September 8th, 2010, 8:55pm Report to Moderator
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Yeah, I certainly hope the screenplay is beeter than that god awful post.  
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RayW
Posted: September 8th, 2010, 9:02pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from seamus19382
Yeah, I certainly hope the screenplay is beeter than that god awful post.  



It's worse!
I promise.


If you can't help don't try.



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cloroxmartini
Posted: September 8th, 2010, 9:50pm Report to Moderator
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http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/16_Blocks_by_Richard_Wenk.pdf

That would help you get a sense of tone and develop one of your own. You use way too many words in the first dozen or so pages that say one thing: we have a witness we need to protect.

I don't know much at all about the characters in these pages. I do know we're in for a lot of shooting and crashed cars. Be careful because that gets old quick.

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cloroxmartini  -  September 8th, 2010, 10:10pm
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RayW
Posted: September 8th, 2010, 10:11pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from cloroxmartini


Bingo!
Exactly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16_Blocks
>> 16 Blocks received mixed to negative reviews. On review aggregator site Rotten Tomatoes, it has an 56% rating from critics, 51% among professional critics, with the following consensus: "Despite strong performances from Bruce Willis and Mos Def, 16 Blocks is a shopworn entry in the buddy-action genre.."<<

I have run across A LOT of supporting evidence that this entire genre just REALLY REALLLY isn't all that commercially successful.

So, would it be prudent just say "Screwit"?

People like RomComs - and - GORE!
Any mash-ups there?!
LOL!

(October OWC: RomCom Gore story!)



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sniper
Posted: September 9th, 2010, 5:05am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from RayW
16 Blocks received mixed to negative reviews. On review aggregator site Rotten Tomatoes, it has an 56% rating from critics, 51% among professional critics, with the following consensus: "Despite strong performances from Bruce Willis and Mos Def, 16 Blocks is a shopworn entry in the buddy-action genre.."<<

I have run across A LOT of supporting evidence that this entire genre just REALLY REALLLY isn't all that commercially successful.

The genre wasn't the reason why 16 Blocks got such negative reviews. The story was. You can put all the perfume and makeup you want on a chunk of shit, it's still a chunk of shit.

Okey-dokey.

I read 6 pages of Lapse, skimmed another 4 before I put it don't down and ran away. The way this script is written and formated is just is just not my thing. Maybe you've got a great story here, maybe you don't - I'll never know.

I do know your first page turned me off right away. The three trucks arriving at the different prisons, you just copy-pasted that and it looks and reads terrible. Mix it up a little. Make it visual interesting (and, please, don't come back with "Yeah, but on screen three different prisons look like... three different prisons!" - cos' on the page, and that's what you should be concerning yourself with, the three prisons don't look like anything).

While technically an agency of the Department of Homeland Security, the U.S. Customs and Border Protection runs the border crossing - not a Homeland Security team (what ever the hell that is). Mistakes like that really rub the wrong way, especially when it's so easy to research in this day and age. Write what know - research what you don't.

The prison sequence is severely under-written. It reads like a poorly formatted montage (or series of shots if you like). Pkg? I imagine you mean a package, right? Then why not just write that instead of coming across like a kid text messaging his buddy?

Page 2.

Very slow fade in? Wrong. Leave the editing to the editors. That's not to say that you can't write a very slow fade in sequence though. It's actually quite easy when you think about it. Show - don't tell.


Quoted Text
           MIKE (V.O.)
Shocking and amazing. Driver didn�t
make it.

           JO (V.O.)
Amazing and shocking. No better
down here. Gun!

And that's where I lost all interest in your script.

Cheers
Rob


Down in the hole / Jesus tries to crack a smile / Beneath another shovel load
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n7
Posted: September 9th, 2010, 7:15am Report to Moderator
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Ray,
I honestly went into this with an open mind and hope to give you some honest feedback,  the good news is that you're stuff is getting more readable, the bad news is that it still needs so much work. I know this was written quickly so I'll forget about the formatting issues, but that wasn't my main issue.

The second I started to get into a scene, you're dialogue would put me off...everyone spoke the same and it felt like I was listening to my 8th grade guidance counselor spew out cheesy dialogue.
If your story isn't a true comedy I'd try to have every bit of your characters speech reveal something about the story or move the plot forward. Since this isn't a straight up comedy, there's a lot that could be cut, especially since a lot of what you have in here doesn't read as funny. Maybe that's just my opinion, but I doubt it.

At least this one was easier to follow. Your formatting has improved 100%. Congrats on that. High five!!! Now quit spending hours on end looking up random stuff online and read a book on screenwriting.

I was initially impressed by your set up, you set a nice pace with your action, but boy oh boy did that get old quick. Too many bullets riddling the sides of cars, etc, it got real old, real quick.

Mike's "grand theft auto" reaction line to "where'd you learn to drive that", was recently in the trailer/movie "the other guys", do a fancy look up on imdb if you feel like it, maybe that snuck into your subconscious without you knowing, but that line was in a well advertised trailer/movie (check imdb. or box office mojo, $100 million and counting) within the last 2 months. If studio readers see something that unoriginal within the first 12 pages, they are very unlikely to give the rest of your script a fair look.

If you can please take one single thing that I have say to heart (re: your 1st post about actors and budget considerations)....Ray, just write a script about a movie that you would ACTUALLY ENJOY and would actually like to see. It seems like you are trying to write cookie cutter scripts that fill a need in the marketplace. Unless you have a high-concept idea no one's going to listen.

A question, and I hope you respond. What are a few of your favorite movies? What inspires you to write? What movies inspire you? Is your motivation $ or trying to create art or something you're truly proud of?

Try to feed off what you loved in those movies that you love and have it influence your scripts. It seems like you're trying to approach screenwriting from a business perspective and as a result your scripts come off as less than genuine. No offense. I just think I'm saying what most people on the site are thinking.
Nate.

Revision History (1 edits)
cloroxmartini  -  September 9th, 2010, 7:29am
trying to make it less offensive...
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RayW
Posted: September 9th, 2010, 8:07am Report to Moderator
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Good morning, Rob

The genre wasn't the reason why 16 Blocks got such negative reviews. The story was. You can put all the perfume and makeup you want on a chunk of shit, it's still a chunk of shit.
http://www.the-numbers.com/market/Genres/
The average gross of thrillers is the second lowest of the major genres.
Factor in a guesstimated cost/benefit or ROI and it gets kinda spooky.
It's more like a cup of loose squirt than a chunk of sh!t.
No perfume. It is what it is.

I read 6 pages of Lapse, skimmed another 4 before I put it don't down and ran away. The way this script is written and formated is just is just not my thing. Maybe you've got a great story here, maybe you don't - I'll never know.
I appreciate you trying. Thank you.


Quoted Text
The three trucks arriving at the different prisons, you just copy-pasted that and it looks and reads terrible. Mix it up a little. Make it visual interesting... cos' on the page, and that's what you should be concerning yourself with, the three prisons don't look like anything).

The prison sequence is severely under-written. It reads like a poorly formatted montage (or series of shots if you like).

Very slow fade in? Wrong. Leave the editing to the editors. That's not to say that you can't write a very slow fade in sequence though. It's actually quite easy when you think about it. Show - don't tell.

This is one of the more interesting things I run across.
In the first statement the objection is the story is under-directed.
In the subsequent statement the objection is the story is over-directed.
RRRGH!
And then the frustrating part is I'm told to "Show-don't tell."
Will you please show a brief suggestion. Thank you.

While technically an agency of the Department of Homeland Security, the U.S. Customs and Border Protection runs the border crossing.
Funny. I started my search for the correct organization with Customs, couldn't find a definitive answer, said screwit, and lumped it up the chain.
Gracias for the issue clarity!

Pkg? I imagine you mean a package, right? Then why not just write that instead.
Yes & corrected. One of a thousand of the other typos I see in this 7WC rough completed in 4+wks.

Thank you very much for reading the first six pages and a skim of the next four.
Corrections appreciated.




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sniper
Posted: September 9th, 2010, 11:38am Report to Moderator
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Not under-directed, Ray, under-written. The opening scenes are way too vague. You want the reader to create a somewhat clear mental picture of the scenes but it's impossible, imo, from what you've written. It doesn't have to be overly detailed, it just has to be clear. This is even more true when introducing new characters in new settings. That should, at the very minimum, include the following:

- Where are we
- What does it look like
- Who's there
- What are they doing

If your intention for the first page was to write a sort of quick scene shifting chain of events, you could write it (and format it) as a SERIES OF SHOT but I would advise against it cos' if the first page doesn't show off your incredible writing skills while setting the tone for the script, then there's really no reason for the reader to turn the page.

Take the scenes with the trucks. Obviously some shady shit is going on so why not show that? Why not show the driver of the truck all nervous while the Customs agent inspects his truck? Why not show some shady characters load the boxes into the trucks while constantly looking over their shoulders to see if anybody's watching? That way you set a tone for the story and you create a sense of foreboding the reader's mind that something bad is going down and they can't wait to find out what it is. What you have now is a very dry opening with zero emotions - in my opinion.

Regarding the "very slow fade in", aks yourself if it's even needed. Does the story fall apart without it? Does it even add anything? And correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're looking for is not a "very slow fade in", you're looking for the sensation of a guy - all banged up - coming back to conscienceness after a car accident. Right?

Example:


Quoted Text

The Crown Vic crashes to a bone shattering stop, airbags
explode.

                                                           CUT TO BLACK:

A shimmer of light.  Distant noises.  Blurry outlines.  Distorted
colors.  More light.  Faint voices.  Contours take shape.  Reveals:

INT. CROWN VIC - DAY

Bloodshot EYES track a pair of LEGS through a broken windshield
as they make their way around the front of the upside-down car.

                          MIKE (O.S.)
              Shocking and amazing. Driver didn’t
              make it.

A SOUND from the rear slides the eyes to the right.

                          JO (O.S.)
              Amazing and shocking. No better
              down here. Gun!

I didn't feel like changing the dialogue...but you definitely should. I mean, who talks like that?

Hope this helps.


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RayW
Posted: September 9th, 2010, 3:54pm Report to Moderator
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- Where are we  Prisons across America
- What does it look like  People doing their job
- Who's there Border patrol, tuckers, prison employees and inmates
- What are they doing  Trafficking 90% of the drugs in prison

but I would advise against it cos' if the first page doesn't show off your incredible writing skills while setting the tone for the script,
This is the background. The environment. The situation at hand. It's a nationwide "epidemic".

What you have now is a very dry opening with zero emotions - in my opinion.
Good. That's exactly what I wanted.
IRL there is a lot of shady sh!t going on. Day in. Day out.
It goes on amongst the majority of regular people doing their regular job.
The shady sh!t itself is performed by regular people doing their illicit regular job.
The ones that look all nervous get caught. I don't want stage play. I want real life... selectively.
It's the cool and cold SOBs that get the work done.
Trucks go in. Trucks go out. People check lists. Your neighbors unload the truck. Your local business professionals distribute it.
Here. There. All across the nation. For decades. In this case, amongst prisons across the US.
Dry as dirt.
That's why I wanted to run through it quick. No glamor. No pretense.

Start with serious => transition to silly => bait with some serious => provide relief.
Relentless, 100% heavy sh!t wears down an audience.
Even the beginning of Hurt Locker had the guys BSing.
Same, if only in intent.

Regarding the "very slow fade in", aks yourself if it's even needed.
Yes. It is appropriate.
No regular FADE IN.

you're looking for the sensation of a guy - all banged up - coming back to conscienceness after a car accident. Right?
Right. See above.
Start with a lot of audio, begin some out of focus/distorted visual then sharpen up.

A shimmer of light.  Distant noises.  Blurry outlines.  Distorted
colors.  More light.  Faint voices.  Contours take shape.  Reveals:

Beautiful. Thank you.

I didn't feel like changing the dialogue...but you definitely should. I mean, who talks like that?
Seriously?
People that use a false disdain or a flippant sense of humor to protect their emotions from a job immersed in lunacy.
How many smashed, crashed, toasted, shot, stabbed, hanged, drowned dead people would you have to see for a few years in a row to bifurcate your sense of normalcy?
Meet Jo & Mike.
All the deadly serious rubbish you see on TV medial shows like ER and Hawthorne are about as legit as cocking revolvers and pumping shotguns with shells already in the breach. PFFT! Ha!

Seriously, Rob -  I appreciate your work here with me. Thank you.



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mcornetto
Posted: September 9th, 2010, 4:45pm Report to Moderator
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Unfortunately, I didn't quite make it through this whole script either, Ray.

I won't bring up the first page because, well, everyone has mentioned how important it is.  Seeing that repetition there did not entice me to read.  But read I did anyway.

I think there's some times when your writing sparkles.  I thought some of your dialogue was pretty good.  Then other times I just feel like you're including too much exposition.  Then there's the times like

            PAUL
I... I don’t remember! I don’t
know... anything?!

or

             MADISON
Yeah. My entire career hangs on the
names he was going to give your dad
this morning and... this is... bad.

When I just want to go Tsk, Tsk.  Very on the nose and should be approached differently.  That second one was when I stopped reading btw.

As far as the action goes, I thought it was a bit blocky.  Try to write your action a  more vertically.   That will give it the feel of moving faster.  

I'm sure you have a good story in here but I feel like you're trying to force it rather than let it happen naturally.   I think you do have some talent for doing this however, so keep writing and find your personal voice because that's when the fun really starts.

Michael


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