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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Thriller Scripts  ›  Lapse - 7WC Moderators: bert
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Coding Herman
Posted: September 18th, 2010, 11:31pm Report to Moderator
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After my page by page notes, here are some general thoughts. For 4 weeks work, you should be proud of yourself. But here are things you won't like to hear:

The story is very thin. Actually, the entire story, even down to the details, can be described with two sentences. The entire script has three long sequences, two of them are just action, and the one in the warehouse is filled with meaningless conversation.

The missing ingredient is complications. I see one big complication: they were captured and brought to the warehouse. But everything else is just gunfight and car chase which our protagonists escaped without any additional complications. This makes the action scenes feel bored and dull after awhile. The script is always in the "up" and rarely lets down.

I also didn't see our protagonist's plan. I know Madison's goal is to get Paul to the hospital, but she doesn't really have a plan in achieving that. Everything seems to happen on the fly.

Another thing that's missing is your Act I. Instead of writing the car crash on page 3, show us who Madison, Jo and Mike are before they arrive at the scene. This is especially important for Madison because the readers will understand what Madison's trying to do and what the stakes are. You might also want to show us Paul before the car crashes.

As a result of missing Act I, I didn't really get to know each character all that well. Don't get me wrong, I liked Madison, Jo and Mike. I liked these characters. But what's missing here is how they interact differently to different people and in different situations. Because of the nature of this story, Madison is seen as always having a badass and tough attitude. It's a little one-note for me.

Another thing you need to work on is your action writing. Some are just confusing. Many times I had to go back and re-read it. Sometimes I understand, but at other times I was completely lost. Especially the gunfight inside the warehouse.

An example: "Madison sees the one man enter truck two�s driver�s door as two others open its passenger door. She ducks."

First, we don't need "Madison sees" because on screen is the audience's seeing. What is "the one man"? Should be "one of the men." "Truck two's driver's door" is too cumbersome. What's not helping is the next phrase with the repeating "two" and "door".

Try this: "One of the men enters the second truck, gets behind the wheel. Two others climb in. Madison ducks"

I'll add more if I think of something.



EDIT: I did think of something. Your main villain should be the one to beat at the end, not some random mole who just popped up at the last 20 pages, because that would be anti-climatic. So Madison should take down Big Frankie after she has Pike busted, not the other way around.

That way, you can have more complications and flavor in your story, rather than: car chase - warehouse talk - gunfight - hospital talk - car chase. Let Madison do all the work, she's the one who figured out who the mole is, she's the one who caught Pike and leads her to capture Big Frankie.


Herman


FEATURE:

Memwipe
- Sci-Fi, Action, Thriller (114 pages) - In a world where memories can be erased by request, a Memory Erasing Specialist desperately searches for the culprit when his wife becomes a target for erasure -- with his former colleagues hot on his trail.

Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Coding Herman  -  September 19th, 2010, 9:53pm
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RayW
Posted: September 18th, 2010, 11:43pm Report to Moderator
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Howdy, Herman!

But here are things you won't like to hear:
Stop that!
One of the things I don't care to hear are vagaries I can't do anything about.
Otherwise, let 'em rip.

Everything seems to happen on the fly.
Yep. The whole story takes place in about four hours.
It's a series of responses to situations as they develop.
"Something funny happened on the way to the deposition... "

Sometimes I understand, but at other times I was completely lost.
Please cite as many points as you care to or can bear.

I'll add more if I think of something.
Cool. That'll be fantastic.



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RayW
Posted: September 19th, 2010, 6:16pm Report to Moderator
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ATTENTION!
I have found confirmation I am kicking this can down the correct road!
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ViewersAreMorons



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RayW
Posted: September 23rd, 2010, 10:36pm Report to Moderator
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Ho-lee mo-lee!
You two sneaky buggers, Khamanna and Herman.

I just now noticed where you little devils went back and edited your initial posts with additional information.
I was expecting additional posts.
GOODNESS!
Way back on the 18th, no less.
Whattaidiot. (shakes head with embarrassment)

Lemme lookit all of what you have and I'll follow-up ASAP.
Probably Saturday morning.
My Friday is booked.
(Good gravy)

Sorry about my oversight - HOWEVER: Thank you very much for your generous contributions!

(Dumb Dora, stupid munkee muther... )



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Grandma Bear
Posted: September 26th, 2010, 4:56pm Report to Moderator
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"Think this story could be "thrillered up"?"

Absolutely. Make it a little bit more of a mystery. Right now we know exactly what the story is about and what is going to happen next.

"You can't read "Big Frankie" and not tell me you can't see and hear Vince Vaughn, right?"
When I read a script I never picture any particular actor or actress. I try to picture them the way the writer wrote them...

"I like this script, I really do. At least so far, but I'm starting to think this is turning into a seemingly endless chase scene.
Technically they don't know they're being chased.
But we do, so I see your point just the same.
I tried to break it up with courthouse, boat and helicopter scenes.
See if the following chart does any help."

I understand, but what you really have here is three sequences. The "chase" in the beginning. Even if broken up with short snippets from the court house, it's still one sequence. At least IMHO. The second one is at the warehouse and the last one is the ending. Hmmm. I'm not sure what I would have liked instead, but I think there should be something else important happening there. Don't know what though.

"For Frankie to demonstrate that they are not in control of their lives any more.
To humiliate them.
Dance or get shot. Pick one."

It fell flat because you have them strip in not such hot ways nor all the way and then he just tells them to get dressed. That was lame and in my opinion doesn't work. Especially since it doesn't further the story.

"Did you see Madison scratching her balls when she spit?"

Why do guys always confuse coarse with tough. Jodi Foster was a VERY tough FBI agent in Silence Of The Lambs. How often did she spit or scratch her balls? Did you even hear her say a bad word except for repeating what Miggs said? Being tough doesn't mean cussing like a sailor and behave crudely...and that goes for men too.  



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RayW
Posted: September 26th, 2010, 10:05pm Report to Moderator
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Howdy, Herman
I apologize for not replying to you shortly after the 18th.

I only recently noticed you had completed your notes. I didn't think to look back for update edits. I was looking for additional posts.
Livin' N learnin'.
Additionally, I had written replies to both you and Khamanna only to accidentally delete them both entirely while proof reading them last night.
Nothing quite like doing the same job twice.  >

Hey Ray, my review will be in several parts. Hope you don't mind.
Beggars can't be choosers.
Any gold coins you toss my way will be welcomed.
I sincerely appreciate the time and attention given for your review.

Page 3, the action here can be written a little more clearer. I got there is a smashed Crown Vic and a second ambulance arriving. But the sudden appearance of the large sedan in the description threw me off. I think you should describe the large sedan first before the second ambulance arrives. That way the readers wouldn't get a huge amount of info all at once.
Hmm... rats.
The large, overturned sedan was first introduced on PDF pg 3/script 2:
Four suited men remain plastered to their seats as the car
spins out of control.
Through the windows a dark sedan hurtles by rolling over and
over.


Although I did warn you "Headzup: Use a crib sheet to keep up with characters.", I guess I shoulda warned you about the vehicles, as well.

I know I have a many vehicles in multiple crash/accident sequences, so I attempted to provide clarity by color coding them.
The colors assigned have zero intrinsic value themselves, completely arbitrary.
Although I could simply color code specify the rolling sedan as being "white" I don't think that best addresses my need to clarify what's what across the scope of this or future stories.

The regressively simplistic way of handling this would be to simply cut story elements so as to not confuse industry readers acting as gatekeepers for directors.
However, that does not address the issue, only circumvents it. A cheat.

Do you have a suggestion or system for keeping multiple objects or characters of similar nature distinct so as to avoid confusion to readers?

Page 3, the paramedics' reactions to the gunfire seems a bit unnatural, especially Jo's, she sounded like she sees this everyday. They should be shocked and afraid, and tried to hide behind the car or the trees. It's a human instinct, always save themselves first before the victims.
It's L.A.
Paramedics often wear ballistic vests where gunfire is unfortunately too common.
Professional instincts direct them to save the patient.

Page 3, you should also describe the pony-tailed woman as MADISON right away.   Yessir. Will do.

Page 16, who's Sam? You mean Parker, right?    Right. Will fix on re-write.

Page 22, Paul's question about whether Madison's husband hit her came out of the blue. I think Paul should worry about himself first.
Yeah. I'll replace that particular statement with something else while still keeping him feeling more responsible and guilty for his own actions, even if he doesn't recall them.
I want to begin with Paul starting his life anew since the head trauma induced amnesia.
Eventually I'll have him regain his full "bad-guy" persona.

Page 33, A GENERAL NOTE, the story seems to drag after Madison decided to go to South Memorial and the ambulance got on and off the highway. After 10 more pages of car chasing and gunfight,  I kinda got bored. I think you need to have some turning points within those 10 pages. You might want to tighten them up and have them arrive at South Memorial a little bit earlier.
You've reaffirmed a structural conflict this story has: While being a 40pg, non-stop "chase scene" it still contains periods of "drag" that fails to give the audience a break.
Essentially, if I'm reading the collective sentiment correctly, it's too much stress with boredom!
RRRGH!!!

This to me feels like an action comedy. The bantering between Mike and Jo. It also reminds me of Speed where most of the action takes place inside a vehicle.
It is.
I was shooting for the style of Bruckheimer's Con Air and The Rock.
On rewrite I'll try to add about another 1/4 of material to bring in more of a Syriana complexity to it, making it more of a political thriller.

Page 35, uh....."Jo WHOOP! WHOOP!s the intersection..." I don't know what's that supposed to mean.
When a ambulance driver approaches, with the intent to cross, a red-lighted intersection he or she will pop a small alert siren that goes WHOOP! WHOOP! for the benefit of drivers more oblivious to their environment than most.

Page 38, I assume the red car is Falcon's? Try to state it's Falcon upfront, cuz right now some readers might confuse it's two different cars.
Falcon is in the Charcoal SUV.
PDF pg 10
EXT. CITY PARKING DECK - DAY

Parked second down from top level, a charcoal SUV’s open
back gate-doors overlook the Courthouse several blocks away.

INT. FALCON’S SUV - DAY

FALCON, 35, takes his hand down from his radio earpiece then
calmly looks up from his spotting scope. Courthouse
prisoner’s entrance ahead
.


More La eMe gang members are in the red car.
PDF pg 32/script 31
INT. RED SEDAN - DAY

The car passes a road sign parallel to the road reading
KENTELLA and EXIT HWY 57.

Five young men with a small arsenal in their laps watch
the ambulance jet through the intersection four cars ahead
and the traffic accident left in its wake.


Page 42, A GENERAL NOTE, finally we're finished with the pursuit on the road. If I remember correctly, this chase started on page 3, that means this single action sequence lasted for 40 pages! It's just way too long.
Yeah.
Screenwise, I thought I had broken it up enough, but you're citing the same as Pia had which compelled me to go back and break it down.
Did you see this chart?

Still? Yeah? No? Doesn't matter, they still need to stop sooner?

Page 52, pretty good so far with the "villain's speech", I personally don't have problem with that plot device, but sometimes you gotta ask why would Frankie explain everything to the protagonists when he could be doing something more important.
Without be additional exposition, he needs to see who Paul ratted out to the feds.
Frankie doesn't care about Madison, Jo and Mike because he knew the moment he laid eyes on them they'd be tools to manipulate Paul.
Afterwards Madison & Jo were going to be sent to a Mexican whore house.
Mike? Just a body to be disposed of in the desert.
Those were just confident forgone decisions of Frankie's from the get-go.
No need to "protect" any goings on in the warehouse.

Page 57, I think the situation starts to get out of hand. I thought Frankie has something big in mind when he first appears, but now, what's everyone doing in the warehouse? Doesn't Frankie have more important things to do than forcing Madison and Jo to strip and Mike to suck a gun?
Frankie is a very in-control sociopath.
It just looks like he's allowing things to get out of hand.
He's deliberately bombarding Paul with too much emotional stimuli to provoke him into telling Frankie what Frankie wants to know, which is finding out where his business is compromised due to Paul's blabbin'.
Frankie has a half-billion dollars at stake in his operation.

Page 63, the dialogue here feels very cartoonish. I know you tried to make Frankie and Max psychotic and how they don't really care much about torture and violence. But I hope you could do the same thing but with a more mature conversation. They sound like high school kids to me.
Suggestions?
I just regurgitated countless back yard conversations over beer and a grill.

Page 68, I really don't understand what Frankie and Max are trying to do here. I thought there will be a turning point when Max came in, but then the same thing for the last 20 pages happened all over again. I don't think Madison, Jo, and Mike are that important for the mafias to spend so much time humiliating them.
Frankie is humiliating the others to get Paul to talk.
You're right. MJ&M are definitely NOT important to Frankie and Max.
However, as commodities they all retain value. Except for Mike.

Page 69, no, man, Joel kills Mario because of lunch?! Com'on!
Alright, that's two votes for "BS outta left field". No good. I'll fixit.
I'll have them coming in already arguing over something and Joel's thoughtlessness will just be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Page 69, A GENERAL NOTE, up to this point, I still couldn't identify a single main protagonist. I thought it would be Madison but then she's not really doing anything for the last 30 pages. You need to get her more active.
Madison is the protag.

The intent was to force both her, and thus the audience, to squirm over a situation she has very little opportunity to control.
Seems on re-write I'll need to return to classic Hollywood fare and keep the hero always kickin' a$$.
Sometimes you try something new and it doesn't work.
Sometimes you get slammed for doing the same old thing.
Whatchagonnado?

Page 71, wow, when did Paul become so active? Five minutes ago he was having problems taking baby steps and now he's shooting people. I would have the girls take care of the shooting while providing cover for Mike to get Paul into the ambulance.
Can do.

The idea was that although Jo & Mike had placed a c-collar on Paul in the field, it's strictly a precautionary measure, while in fact Paul has no broken cervical vertebrae and just gets progressively more and more confident/cocky that he doesn't have a broken neck.
Confidence build and necessity of situation.

Page 84-85, you might want to go easier on the exposition. Sometimes we need exposition to know what's going on, but now Parker is like delivering a lecture. It would be very dry on the screen.
Yeah. I ran outta time for ACT III.
On re-write I'll spread that pugilistic, on-the-nose dialog out across more events and characters.

Page 89, I liked how you setup using Frankie's cheap cell phone to save him, and now you pay it off by using the phone to arrest him.
Yuk, yuk, yuk!
The irony.

Page 99, hold on, I thought Falcon and Arturo are bad guys. No?
Yeah. They are.
But it has been a long morning for Madison.
She's tired of fighting.
They're armed and in the truck.
She's not.
What's she going to do, really?
Sometimes you just gotta say "Screwit."
Besides, Madison told him "Catch you later."
FBI can still make jokes, right?

Do think I should make this protagonist/hero a more realistic person or one that's just a wee unbelievable such as John McClane of Die Hard fame?

Thank you, Herman for your comments which will definitely help with the rewrite.
With your observations I'll be better able to pound out a solid story.
Gracias!



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RayW
Posted: September 26th, 2010, 11:41pm Report to Moderator
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Howdy, Khamanna
I also apologize to you for not replying to you shortly after the 18th.

I only recently noticed you had completed your notes. I didn't think to look back for update edits. I was looking for additional posts.
I had written replies to both you and Herman but while proof reading them last night I accidentally deleted them both entirely.
So here I am another day later replying.

Read the first 30 something, and am planning to read on (!)... it's just decided to comment in parts. Hope you don't mind although it might seem annoying.
It's not annoying at all.
It takes a lotta time to give a piece serious review with notations.
I open a gmail draft and have to spend several collective hours in broken pieces to compose a review.

p1 - "Guard zips up his pants" - didn't know they were unzipped.
Didn't think I needed to show that part.
Should I?

Kinda like "Man walks out of house talking on phone."
Should I show him opening the phone, dialing number then speaking?

p3,4 - I notice a lot of exclamation marks - thinking these are not always necessary. I understand they are yelling most of the time but still...For instance JO No! Just this guy! --I think just "No. Just this guy." sounds better.
They're yelling over gunfire.

p4 "Jo has closed the back doors" - if we are not seeing this then maybe "Behind the closed back doors Jo finishes up putting an oxygen mask over the patients face. Then rips open.."
Gotcha. Cool. Will do.

p7 - Madison just told them the whole story, bit too straighforward and open for an FBI agent. Maybe they could ask questions... on the way.
Okey doke.

p10 - Madison calls him a witness, but he's really an enemy from the description. I get it he would have to confess if he remembered... Maybe you could let us know why he absolutely has to confess.
Paul is both a witness (on his way to a deposition which he is trading for admission into the witness relocation program) and an enemy or bad-guy.
He's an attorney employed by the LA Mafia and has recently put together a financially huge drug and money laundering transportation deal between a system of prison gangs and the Mexican drug cartel.

As Defense attorney Cruz states on PDF 16 & 17
CRUZ
Without the your key witness’
deposition to tie together any of
the circumstantial evidence
your
case will be dismissed and Casinni
walks. You have no case. Parker,
your case is dead.

Without Paul's deposition giving up names of people involved in the case - there is no case.
He's the key to the whole thing.
And they're just now figuring out that he CAN'T provide anyone with anything useful.
However, his LA Mafia buddies don't know this and likely don't care. They'd just as soon kill him just on general principles.
The La eMe gang doesn't know that he can't provide names.
Same for the Mexican drug cartel.
Same for whomever (Governor? Senator? Prison warden?) contracted Falcon and Owl to button this up.

p13 - Without the exclamation marks Arturo would sound manlier.
Translator:
http://translate.reference.com.....amp;dst=en&v=1.0
I don't speak Spanish.
I cheat.
Considering the circumstance, should that be something spoken as controlled frustration, instead?
I respect the difference in cultural values and would like to do it right as possible.
(Before the director and studio screw it up!)

p16 "Sam holds his fists a moment" - I'd have him as PARKER throughout, thinking you changed it from Sam to Parker maybe and missed it here.
Yep. Gotta go back and substitute those.

p21 - I like Paul hitting on Madison and thinking it will grow in something more. You also upped the stakes for her - her carrier depends on Paul - this is very good. She sounds kind of thankful that he has killed her husband. We'll see why - just want you to know that this is what she sounded like to me.
He's not hitting on her. He's kinda just blurting stupid, childish things.
I'm going to re-work that entire conversation though.
Killing her SOB husband was a mixed blessing.
It got rid of the bastard while advancing her career.

p27 - funny grandma dialog!  
Thank you.
I think it's equally important to remark on things that work in each others' scripts as to identify points that need additional attention.

Clearly an action thriller, very heavy in action which is good.
On rewrite I'll bend it to a political thriller.

p34 I like their dialog throughout. I think you put some thought in it, comes off as very snappy.
Thank you.
I know some of it needs a lot of attention though.
  
p44 "Forty minutes has passed" - now how to show this to us... hmmm...
Director shoots a half-second shot of Sam Parker pulling back his cuff to reveal elapsed time on a very expensive product placement watch.

p46 "Mad Hatter" Elliot - I like it, pretty farcical and the whole script is in this tone - nice.
It is. You are the first to accept this isn't supposed to be a brain busting, ground breaking movie.
It's just summer-time action cr@p.
Shoot sh!t and watch it blow up.
Double cheezeburger and fries.
No/low nutritional value.

p54 - Paul was very articulate at the beginning for someone with a broken neck. Maybe if he said something ineligible... (at the beginning)
His neck isn't broken, but no one can tell that until it's x-rayed at the hospital.
The c-collar is SOP precautionary.

p55,56 - I'm thinking Frankie is too fun and my attention is on him which is not right because my attention should be on Madison and the group. Maybe you could show this from her POV.
Frankie's a hoot! Sociopathic, fuh-reak.
Yeah, I wanted to divert attention away from the three main characters who've been hogging the screen while stuck in a tiny ambulance for the past forty minutes.
No? Don't do that?

p57 - Paul conversing with Madison - here's an idea - maybe you could have bits of this conversation throughout to keep them in the view.
Can do.

p59 - Yeah, Paul did not shoot Madison's husband!
Although he's still guilty for a lotta sh!t - THAT ain't one of 'em, even though everyone's pinned it on him.
The double irony here is that, just like the killing of Madison's first SOB husband got rid of the bastard while advancing her career, the same happened for Paul, he gets position advancement within the Mafia even though he didn't do anything but take the blame/responsibility.

p72,73 For this warehouse sequence it might be worth considering mini slugs. "climbs into the cab. No keys." - could go under CAB.
Understood. I can definitely see what you're talking about.
This whole area became a mess to Herman, as well.

p76 - "They fight" - I don't know about the best/correct way to do it but personally I use more descriptive to show a fight...follow every/almost every punch. --and maybe that's wrong.
Yeah, I ran outta time.
And I always have mixed feelings about scripting out a major fight sequence, which is why I always keep them incredibly simple.
Car crashes in a tree.
Car rolls over.
Car ricochets and crashes.
Car brakes to a stop.
Madison & Pike fight.

The director and stunt coordinator are just going to rewrite them anyway.
But on the rewrite I'll put SOME more effort into it. Deal?

p80,81,82 - got a little talky here, too much info conveyed through dialog.
Good Lord. that whole ACT III is a disaster.
Ran outta time. Major-major overhaul on rewrite coming.

p88 - Madison is not supposed to leave Nevada? - I suggest you introduce this earlier to up the stakes.
On rewrite I'll have a lot more of these details spread out across ACTs I & II.
I fear the audience will not be able to piece together the separated points, though.
On the one hand I'm writing double cheezeburger schlock for a high school education.
On the other hand I'm asking them to piece together fragmented data on a post-graduate level.
Challenging!

I really like the script - you managed to maintain the tone which is important.
You introduce new characters throughout and I suggest you go easy on them. Also introduce most of them in the first act and stick with them. That's what I watch out for in my scripts

Thank you very much for not only your kind words but especially for your time and attention.
I hope that with the rewrite, which will introduce many more elements and complexity, I am able to retain that consistency you've cited.
I feel tonal/thematic consistency is paramount.

As I've stated to other writers here, when reviewing scripts I build a crib sheet of characters and sometimes locations so that I never get confused or overwhelmed.
Do you feel this is overkill and a crutch for bad writing?
(I think of it as a crutch for my poor memory.)
When I think of complex stories like Syriana, Traffic and Crash I can't imagine keeping everyone straight without a crib sheet.

Do you have a method of keeping complex stories or a multitude of characters straight/clear?

Thank you so much Khamanna for reading Lapse and providing your notes.
Your points will certainly be incorporated into the rewrite.
Flinch when it gets here!

Hey, I also wanted to shoot this across your bow, as well:
Do think I should make this protagonist/hero a more realistic person or one that's just a wee unbelievable such as John McClane of Die Hard fame?

Thank you, again!



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Coding Herman
Posted: September 27th, 2010, 2:55pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from RayW
The large, overturned sedan was first introduced on PDF pg 3/script 2:
[face=Courier]Four suited men remain plastered to their seats as the car
spins out of control.
Through the windows a dark sedan hurtles by rolling over and
over.


Oops, my bad. I think the reason I missed it is because the Crown Vic was losing control and I was focused on it, rather than things we see through the windows.


Quoted from RayW
Do you have a suggestion or system for keeping multiple objects or characters of similar nature distinct so as to avoid confusion to readers?


For that particular scene above, I'd open up the scene with EXT. CRASH SITE or whatever you want to call it since the Crown Vic didn't crash yet. But do a EXT. scene, describe the dark sedan chasing down the Crown Vic, then both of them crash. This way, the readers will have a mental picture that there are two different cars.

As to a system for keeping multiple objects of similar nature distinct, I also have trouble with that. But a rule of thumb is: describe the object when it becomes important, instead of bombarding the readers with everything right at the beginning.

And instead of saying green sedan, red sedan, orange sedan, it's easier to just say whose sedan it is. The Gang's sedan, Arturo's sedan, etc. That way I don't have to stop and think about whose sedan it is. I doubt a lot of people can keep track of which character is driving which color of sedan.


Quoted from RayW
Paramedics often wear ballistic vests where gunfire is unfortunately too common. Professional instincts direct them to save the patient.


Alright then, I just thought it's more logical to take Paul behind a tree first, wait for a bit, before sacrificing themselves out in open fire.


Quoted from RayW
You've reaffirmed a structural conflict this story has: While being a 40pg, non-stop "chase scene" it still contains periods of "drag" that fails to give the audience a break.
Essentially, if I'm reading the collective sentiment correctly, it's too much stress with boredom!
RRRGH!!!


When I mean "drag", I mean a drag in story movement, not in action. How counter-intuitive it may seem, pure gunfight and chase scene doesn't move the story much because the writer is busy choreographing the action sequence.

Story movements depend on turning points, some minor, some majors. During the 40-page chase scene, there is no major turning points that swerve the story in different direction. There are some minor ones, like Paul having amnesia and they not going to North Central Hospital. And the only major turning point is at the end of the chase when the three of them got captured.

You could've inserted more of these in. Like there is a mole in the FBI.


Quoted from RayW
When a ambulance driver approaches, with the intent to cross, a red-lighted intersection he or she will pop a small alert siren that goes WHOOP! WHOOP! for the benefit of drivers more oblivious to their environment than most.


Oh, okay. I didn't realize the WHOOP! WHOOP! is the sound of the siren.


Quoted from RayW
Page 38, I assume the red car is Falcon's? Try to state it's Falcon upfront, cuz right now some readers might confuse it's two different cars.
Falcon is in the Charcoal SUV.


I guess it's me again who can't keep track of the cars. But how come you wrote "....knuckles tighten on the steering wheel" twice but in two different cars? I really thought that was a typo.


Quoted from RayW
Screenwise, I thought I had broken it up enough, but you're citing the same as Pia had which compelled me to go back and break it down.
Did you see this chart? Still? Yeah? No? Doesn't matter, they still need to stop sooner?


YES! Much, much sooner! It's still one chase sequence even you intercut it with the courthouse scenes. There is a lot of babbling in the ambulance, move those babbling somewhere else, preferably in Act I.


Quoted from RayW
Without be additional exposition, he needs to see who Paul ratted out to the feds.
Frankie doesn't care about Madison, Jo and Mike because he knew the moment he laid eyes on them they'd be tools to manipulate Paul.
Afterwards Madison & Jo were going to be sent to a Mexican whore house.
Mike? Just a body to be disposed of in the desert.
Those were just confident forgone decisions of Frankie's from the get-go.
No need to "protect" any goings on in the warehouse.


It's okay for the first few pages when Frankie starts talking. From those pages, we knew Frankie wants to see who Paul ratted out and then wanted him dead. But then again, you drag this scene for way too long. I want something else to happen after those pages.


Quoted from RayW
Frankie is a very in-control sociopath.
It just looks like he's allowing things to get out of hand.
He's deliberately bombarding Paul with too much emotional stimuli to provoke him into telling Frankie what Frankie wants to know, which is finding out where his business is compromised due to Paul's blabbin'.
Frankie has a half-billion dollars at stake in his operation.


What I mean by "things getting out of hand", it's the story itself. The story now seems to go off a tangent and focus on humiliating the victims rather than squeezing out info from Paul.


Quoted from RayW
Page 63, the dialogue here feels very cartoonish. I know you tried to make Frankie and Max psychotic and how they don't really care much about torture and violence. But I hope you could do the same thing but with a more mature conversation. They sound like high school kids to me.
Suggestions?
I just regurgitated countless back yard conversations over beer and a grill.


Unfortunately, I'm pretty weak at dialogue as well. It just feels out of tone with their conversation about camcorder and HDTV. Maybe just cut out the entire conversation between Frankie and Max, or you can keep the same info, but make them sound more mature.


Quoted from RayW
Frankie is humiliating the others to get Paul to talk.
You're right. MJ&M are definitely NOT important to Frankie and Max.
However, as commodities they all retain value. Except for Mike.


I understand Frankie is making Paul to talk, but as I stated before, I want something else to happen now. We understand what Frankie was trying to do 10 pages ago. Sorry to be harsh, but I'd rather have Frankie take a gun out and just shoot everybody, at least it's something different!


FEATURE:

Memwipe
- Sci-Fi, Action, Thriller (114 pages) - In a world where memories can be erased by request, a Memory Erasing Specialist desperately searches for the culprit when his wife becomes a target for erasure -- with his former colleagues hot on his trail.
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Coding Herman
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Quoted from RayW
The intent was to force both her, and thus the audience, to squirm over a situation she has very little opportunity to control.
Seems on re-write I'll need to return to classic Hollywood fare and keep the hero always kickin' a$$.
Sometimes you try something new and it doesn't work.
Sometimes you get slammed for doing the same old thing.
Whatchagonnado?


I understand what you trying to get at, but the warehouse scene is just way too long for our protagonist to lose control and be inactive. A few pages is fine.

The hero doesn't have to be kicking ass all the time, instead, it's more interesting if bad things happen to our hero and see how he/she struggles against them. Right now, Madison doesn't seem to be doing any struggle against Frankie. She didn't do anything to turn around the situation either, it was two thugs who shot each other!


Quoted from RayW
The idea was that although Jo & Mike had placed a c-collar on Paul in the field, it's strictly a precautionary measure, while in fact Paul has no broken cervical vertebrae and just gets progressively more and more confident/cocky that he doesn't have a broken neck.
Confidence build and necessity of situation.


Okay, I gotcha. But the audience would assume he has a broke vertebrae because (I think) Jo said something like that back in the beginning?


Quoted from RayW
It has been a long morning for Madison.
She's tired of fighting.
They're armed and in the truck.
She's not.
What's she going to do, really?
Sometimes you just gotta say "Screwit."
Besides, Madison told him "Catch you later."
FBI can still make jokes, right?


LOL, I can't believe I missed that joke. Good one!


Quoted from RayW
Do think I should make this protagonist/hero a more realistic person or one that's just a wee unbelievable such as John McClane of Die Hard fame?


When you say "a wee unbelievable", do you mean John McClane seems to have some superhuman strengths to defeat the bad guys? And a more realistic person is one who is more vulnerable, the average Joe?

If your protagonist is a FBI, then you can make her like John McClane because the audience would accept she has special knowledge and strengths that an average Joe wouldn't have. It really depends on what your story is to decide what type of protagonist you gonna use.


Quoted from RayW
Thank you, Herman for your comments which will definitely help with the rewrite.
With your observations I'll be better able to pound out a solid story.
Gracias!


No problem, Ray. It's fun doing and reading the 7WCs. Hope to read the re-write in the future.


FEATURE:

Memwipe
- Sci-Fi, Action, Thriller (114 pages) - In a world where memories can be erased by request, a Memory Erasing Specialist desperately searches for the culprit when his wife becomes a target for erasure -- with his former colleagues hot on his trail.
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khamanna
Posted: September 28th, 2010, 10:08am Report to Moderator
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Hi again, Ray.

I don't do crib sheets (or even detailed outlines) and I think I should start. This can't be bad, if anything it's not bad, I think. Usually I write out of character, didn't do It Takes Two out of character though - the story is too complex and it consumed all the effort, I guess.

I've never watched Die Hard, but I think I understand the question. I think more realistic/human will fit your script better. I also think that she should be really good at what she does (and she is, so I'd say - don't take that away from her).

p1 - I think that the unzipped pants should stay as is if there's a reason for them to be unzipped at all. It's just I couldn't understand what you were driving at. Maybe I'm slow and it totally fits there.

p55,56 - I think if you introduced Frankie earlier as one of the main forces/characters/antagonists and it would take care of this as it would be okay to switch to and forth from the others for longer periods of time then. I think many usually have problems with staying away from main characters and I'm just one of many. See if more than one complained about this.

I think these were all the questions. Let me know if I missed something.
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RayW
Posted: September 29th, 2010, 3:55pm Report to Moderator
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Howdy, Pia

Thank you for your follow up.

"Think this story could be "thrillered up"?"
Absolutely. Make it a little bit more of a mystery. Right now we know exactly what the story is about and what is going to happen next.
Good.
I'm strongly considering adding sufficient elements to it to make it a political thriller and less of a straight action flick.
For structural reference on a political thriller I just watched State of Play and feel okay about adding more material, however I think I'll need to add a LOT of more material and will have a difficult time keeping the story "fun"

I understand, but what you really have here is three sequences. The "chase" in the beginning. Even if broken up with short snippets from the court house, it's still one sequence. At least IMHO. The second one is at the warehouse and the last one is the ending. Hmmm. I'm not sure what I would have liked instead, but I think there should be something else important happening there. Don't know what though.
On all three sequences you're right.
I don't either.


It fell flat because you have them strip in not such hot ways nor all the way and then he just tells them to get dressed. That was lame and in my opinion doesn't work. Especially since it doesn't further the story.
I think I'm making too much song and dance to pump Paul for information that he doesn't remember.
The majority of the warehouse sequence was to try something new:
Quit having the protagonist/hero ALWAYS be doing something.
Make the protagonist/hero and audience squirm with the inability to find convenient opportunities every three-minutes to advance the story along.
It's not going over well with readers - at all, so I'm going to fall back on tried and true genre fare. 90min of runnin'Ngunnin'.

"Did you see Madison scratching her balls when she spit?"
Why do guys always confuse coarse with tough. Jodi Foster was a VERY tough FBI agent in Silence Of The Lambs. How often did she spit or scratch her balls? Did you even hear her say a bad word except for repeating what Miggs said? Being tough doesn't mean cussing like a sailor and behave crudely...and that goes for men too.  
Uh, I was joking!
Madison didn't spit at all. Any.

How 'bout you?
Do you think I should keep Madison somewhat realistic or "superhuman her up" to John McClane status?
Clarice Starling or Laura Croft?
Considering the blue-collar, shoot-sh!t-and-watch-it-blow-up audience this is written for?
Die Hard - ON THE HIGHWAY!

I just want the movie to be PG-13, pop-corn, escapism fun.




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RayW  -  September 30th, 2010, 12:39am
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RayW
Posted: September 30th, 2010, 10:50am Report to Moderator
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Howdy, Herman

Thank you for your follow up.

And instead of saying green sedan, red sedan, orange sedan, it's easier to just say whose sedan it is. The Gang's sedan, Arturo's sedan, etc. That way I don't have to stop and think about whose sedan it is. I doubt a lot of people can keep track of which character is driving which color of sedan.
I honestly see and understand what your saying.
So, even though on screen it would just look like "a WHITE SEDAN rolls by" you're saying in the screenplay I should write it as "a MAFIA SEDAN rolls by".
Correct?

My fear is that readers will object to that kind of description along the lines of "How the h3ll am I supposed to know it's a mafia car rolling by?", at which point I either grunt or groan in frustrated disgust.

I tend to write screenplays with a bias towards sequencing directions for directors rather than writing an entertaining story for readers.
(And I know this is about the time when Bert calls me to the mat stating they, in fact, require the same.)
I don't want to suggest that in the future I WON'T describe a story element by it's operator/owner, only that I see that this is an issue more complex than I was initially aware of.

How counter-intuitive it may seem, pure gunfight and chase scene doesn't move the story much because the writer is busy choreographing the action sequence.
I don't believe it's counter intuitive at all. They are not mutually exclusive, though.

Consider the first action sequence of Mission Impossible III. Ethan Hunt's team goes through a ten minute building, truck and helicopter rescue of a captured operative to predicate the (implausible) nasally-inserted skull explosive + laptop acquisition with time & location of the bad guy at the Vatican (tool of redemption).

The first action sequence of Casino Royale has James Bond in a ten minute chase of the bomber through the chicken fight, through the construction site then into the embassy to establish he's the tarnished good guy on the outs with MI6 for his disregard of shop policy + acquire the cell-phone leading to the bombers contact man (tool of redemption).

In the first action sequence of Lapse (which I intended to perceptually conclude after they drive by the first hospital) Madison et al have a ten minute departure from one fire fight with the mafia only to find themselves in a second fire fight the the La eMe gang to establish Madison holds Paul (the MacGuffin) in her protective custody + at least two separate organizations are after him, three figuring in Falcon & Owl.

I do not see action as being exclusive of moving the story along, although I do agree with your original statement of "pure gunfight and chase scene doesn't move the story much".
The last sequence in Kill Bill Vol. 1Beatrix spends waaaaaayyyy toooo long slashing O-Ren Ishii's masked guards.
Ugh. THAT did not move the story along. So point made.
I hope to avoid just that.

I guess it's me again who can't keep track of the cars. But how come you wrote "....knuckles tighten on the steering wheel" twice but in two different cars? I really thought that was a typo.
=>PDF pg 39
INT. COP CRUISER - DAY
The OFFICER, 30, lasing plates for speeders notes...
blah blah blah...

The green sedan driving by is just over the speed limit, but
the officer’s eyes narrow at the two occupants.

He pulls out into traffic to follow. The officer doesn’t
notice the
red sedan in his rear view mirror or the charcoal
SUV
behind it.

INT. RED CAR - DAY
Tattooed knuckles tighten on the steering wheel.

INT. FALCON’S SUV - DAY
Falcon’s knuckles tighten on the steering wheel.


I will easily concede that I may write events not-as-clear-as-they-could-be (and I greatly appreciate it when people point me in the right direction to fix that disability), but I rarely get flagged on story incongruities.

Literally:
A - the green car follows the ambulance.
B - the police cruiser pulls out into traffic to follow the green car (because of it's occupants).
C - The police officer does not notice the red sedan in his rear view mirror or the charcoal SUV behind it.
E - First subsequent camera shot = INT. RED CAR - DAY, Tattooed knuckles tighten on the steering wheel. The tattooed gang member shows stress that the police cruiser has just complicated the situation. And the red car driver isn't even aware of...
F - Second subsequent camera shot = INT. FALCON’S SUV - DAY, Falcon’s knuckles tighten on the steering wheel. Falcon isn't too happy with the police cruiser complicating the situation, either. And HE isn't even aware that both the green and red cars contain people after Paul, as well.
The audience sees on the screen all these people converging on Paul, Madison, Jo & Mike, but no one involved in the scene has any idea of just what a mess the situation is.

No typo.
Just detail.
Showing stress rather than telling it. Tightened knuckles.

It's okay for the first few pages when Frankie starts talking. From those pages, we knew Frankie wants to see who Paul ratted out and then wanted him dead. But then again, you drag this scene for way too long. I want something else to happen after those pages.
Okay.
It'll get condensed & cut on rewrite.

What I mean by "things getting out of hand", it's the story itself. The story now seems to go off a tangent and focus on humiliating the victims rather than squeezing out info from Paul.
Understood.
Like I replied to Pia, I think I'm making too much song and dance to pump Paul for information that he doesn't remember.
The majority of the warehouse sequence was to try something fairly uncommon:
- Quit having the protagonist/hero ALWAYS be doing something.
- Make the protagonist/hero and audience squirm with the inability to find convenient opportunities every three-minutes to advance the story along.

It's not going over well with readers - at all, so I'm going to fall back on tried and true genre fare. 90min of runnin'Ngunnin'.

Sorry to be harsh, but I'd rather have Frankie take a gun out and just shoot everybody, at least it's something different!
ARRGH! You're killin' me!
But it's possible the frustration you're displaying is EXACTLY what I want!
YOU, as an audience member, WANT to do something but CAN'T.

Again, I wanted to introduce atypical bad guys.
Something scary but NOT cartoon, super-bad, over the top, kill everybody SOBs.
Frankie's a businessman, albeit one not afraid to use extreme measures to achieve his goals.
But this Hollywood tripe about mafia guys just shooting anyone gets on my nerves.

I put myself in his shoes.
If I just wanna get information out of... you, for example, I wouldn't start off by shooting your wife in the head while your kids watched. Pfft! Nah, I'd try to scare the sh!t outta you. I'd wear you down. Time and fatigue works in my favor to achieve that goal.
Frankie just IMPLIES that he COULD change the terms by firing a single shot BETWEEN them.
So far... everyone's still alive.

But I'll shorten the sequence just the same.
Here I'm just explaining WTH happened, as is.

I understand what you trying to get at, but the warehouse scene is just way too long for our protagonist to lose control and be inactive. A few pages is fine.
Kickin' a$$, every three minutes, just like clockwork, coming right up.
(pouts)

Right now, Madison doesn't seem to be doing any struggle against Frankie. She didn't do anything to turn around the situation either, it was two thugs who shot each other!
In that situation there was nothing for her, or anyone, to do.
The whole point of the sequence was to make everybody squirm with discomfort.
I want to torture the audience (in an entertaining way, of course).

This is exactly why I enjoyed Christoph Waltz's character, Hans Landa, in Inglorious Basterds so much. Landa made everybody squirm by having absolute power over everyone he conversed with. In the farm house. At the luncheon. In the theater. The viewer was forced to squirm as the protagonists were forced.
I loved it.

HOWEVER - It's just not working in Lapse for anyone, so I'm cutting it.

And the two drug cartel members shooting each other was to contrast their cultural standards against both our and even Frankie's. He may be a sociopath, but he doesn't just go running around killing everybody.
I want to reaffirm with the audience these drug dealers are not right.
They're dangerous and unpredictable.

But the audience would assume he has a broke vertebrae because (I think) Jo said something like that back in the beginning?
I know people are pretty stupid, especially the audience I'm writing this for, but do you think they're really THAT STUPID that they don't know placing a c-collar on a patient at an accident is strictly precautionary?
My God. You're likely correct. People scare me.

LOL, I can't believe I missed that joke. Good one!
How about just before that when Falcon says "See you around." ?
Did you catch that one, too?
What's Falcon spent most of the day doing?
Watching things.
Spying on his targets.
He's patient, not hasty or rash.
There's an instant, albeit twisted, professional respect between Madison & Falcon.
In a sequel they would have a complicated romance.

If your protagonist is a FBI, then you can make her like John McClane because the audience would accept she has special knowledge and strengths that an average Joe wouldn't have. It really depends on what your story is to decide what type of protagonist you gonna use.
Yeah, I'm leaning 65/35 towards human+.
Oh, I know it's my decision, but I have a respect for the audience, even an audience of goobers, (ALWAYS respect the mob!) and wish to tailor entertainment to them.
If people want double cheezeburger with fata$$ fries - GIVE IT TO THEM!
LOL!
Lapse is McDonalds
Finkle is Einhorn!


Thank you again for your follow up!



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RayW
Posted: October 3rd, 2010, 12:54am Report to Moderator
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Howdy, Khamanna

Thank you for the follow-up replies!
Yesterday I had already replied to you, as well, but I think some other program on my computer kicked me off the internet before I poked the "Post" button. Rats!
I love doin' the same job twice.
Grrrrrr!!!

I don't do crib sheets (or even detailed outlines) and I think I should start. This can't be bad, if anything it's not bad, I think. Usually I write out of character, didn't do It Takes Two out of character though - the story is too complex and it consumed all the effort, I guess.
I know my memory is garbage, especially for converting words into images while trying to keep up with the words for names and places.
From reading production transcript screenplays I know darn good and well the simplistic solution of keeping our characters to a minimum as to not confuse our peers at SS is folly.
Big boys have two dozen named and three dozen+ speaking characters, then we should consider that the standard.

Crib sheets, Baby!
Writing or reading.
I kinda think it's disrespectful to the writer to expect them to make every character memorable enough that the reader SHOULD just remember ALL of them.
(eyebrows rise at that expectation)

I've never watched Die Hard, but I think I understand the question. I think more realistic/human will fit your script better. I also think that she should be really good at what she does (and she is, so I'd say - don't take that away from her).
A - What movie genres do you gravitate towards?
B - What action films do you enjoy?
C - I actually agree with you about having Madison being more realistic with the story as is. Problem is that I want to make Lapse a more escapism, fun flick so I'm scared I would have to skootch her a wee more over to the super-human/legendary side of the street. I hate doing that because I find it usually requires making too many characters eye-rolling ridiculous. And I may have to say "Screwit" and just leave everyone reasonable while keeping the story HEAT-like plausible. Creative decisions...

p1 - I think that the unzipped pants should stay as is if there's a reason for them to be unzipped at all. It's just I couldn't understand what you were driving at. Maybe I'm slow and it totally fits there.
Hmm... I dunno how straight forward you're comfortable with me being about what that throw-away brief shot is about.
In real life prison guards transport street drugs into the prison system, sometimes part of their compensation is in the form of "personal services" from the inmates involving the guard's pants being unzipped... followed by the inmate wiping his mouth.
Yeah.
That.
However, to maintain a PG-13 rating MPAA would likely have the director exchange that one second shot for something less... provocative.
I got's no problem beating the MPAA to the punch. So...

p55,56 - I think if you introduced Frankie earlier as one of the main forces/characters/antagonists and it would take care of this as it would be okay to switch to and forth from the others for longer periods of time then. I think many usually have problems with staying away from main characters and I'm just one of many. See if more than one complained about this.
Yeah, you're right. Will do.
No one specifically identified staying away from the protag for too long as an issue, however that entire warehouse sequence, as well as story structure, are getting overhauled.
Lapse is going to get major work done to it. It'll be a lot more than just cleaning up minor details and story incongruities.
I'm talking some Jenny Lee type work.

Okay, maybe that's not a great example, but you know what I mean.

Thank you again, so much for following up. And I appologize for not getting back to you sooner (stupid 'puter! Grrr!!)
I feel inspired to run back through the comments on everyone's 7WC and see what I've missed.




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