Dustin, making a character relatable and making him likable are not at all the same thing.

Very often a character does something that does not make him likable, but the audience can emphasize with him.

Ferris Bueler is introduced to us pretending to be sick, lying to his parents, and winking at his pissed sister. There is no cat saving in that. However, we relate to it, as who hasn't pretended to be sick to get out of school?

And no, you were certainly not agreeing with me. Read your post again. You were being an ungrateful smarta$$. (Cornetto, I am not flaming, I am pointing out to this new member the error of his statements). Read the part about stripping naked and giving his clothes to charity. You were being ungrateful.

As for my psychological evaluation, I was generously searching for an explanation for what has been evident in your response. Other alternatives are less generous.

CORNETTO: out of curiosity, can a script be posted in a locked way so no reviews can be made? I am being sincere in that I think Dustin would have preferred that, and it's actually very reasonable if so. If he's shopping his script and does not plan on rewriting, he might not want reviews.

Quoted from KevinLenihan CORNETTO: out of curiosity, can a script be posted in a locked way so no reviews can be made? I am being sincere in that I think Dustin would have preferred that, and it's actually very reasonable if so. If he's shopping his script and does not plan on rewriting, he might not want reviews.

It's definitely possible technically for the script thread to be locked.  The author would need to specifically request that the thread be locked.   It's probably best that the request be made directly to Don.

Dustin must be sleeping with his boytoy.  How cute...

Dude, hopefully you'll see the error of your ways and apologize to all.  And, believe it or not, I actually do mean that.  Read your posts back and see if you're not being King CockFace.

As I said, and again, I do mean this...I welcomed you in, and actually tried to stand up for your arrogant ways, as I know that new blood does bring new energy.

Read this script over and I think...and hope you'll see that you are far from free of criticism and help.

We do all want to help and that's what SS is all about.  Get on the train and pull down the chain...

Next idiotic post, I'm done with you for good.

Quoted from KevinLenihan Dustin, making a character relatable and making him likable are not at all the same thing.

I didn't say they were. Your comprehension skills are way down. I said they were related.

Quoted from KevinLenihan Very often a character does something that does not make him likable, but the audience can emphasize with him.

You mean empathise. Still doesn't change the fact that likable and relatable are related.

Quoted from KevinLenihan Ferris Bueler is introduced to us pretending to be sick, lying to his parents, and winking at his pissed sister. There is no cat saving in that. However, we relate to it, as who hasn't pretended to be sick to get out of school?

I still call that making the character instantly likable. People would say, I like this guy.... just as they may say I can relate to this guy. You like that part of the persons character because you can relate to it.

Quoted from KevinLenihan And no, you were certainly not agreeing with me. Read your post again. You were being an ungrateful smarta$$. (Cornetto, I am not flaming, I am pointing out to this new member the error of his statements). Read the part about stripping naked and giving his clothes to charity. You were being ungrateful.

I wasn't aware that I needed to be grateful. i don't need to read the part again as I have already explained it to you once before. It is you that needs to read it again, and again, and again. You seriously have poor comprehension skills.

Quoted from KevinLenihan As for my psychological evaluation, I was generously searching for an explanation for what has been evident in your response. Other alternatives are less generous.

You must have missed the words unprofessional and unfounded. I wasn't actually asking you a question.

Quoted from KevinLenihan CORNETTO: out of curiosity, can a script be posted in a locked way so no reviews can be made? I am being sincere in that I think Dustin would have preferred that, and it's actually very reasonable if so. If he's shopping his script and does not plan on rewriting, he might not want reviews.

Man... you need to learn to write better. Also practise your comprehension.

Let's see how grateful you are for my advice.

Quoted from Dreamscale Dustin must be sleeping with his boytoy.  How cute... Dude, hopefully you'll see the error of your ways and apologize to all.  And, believe it or not, I actually do mean that.  Read your posts back and see if you're not being King CockFace. As I said, and again, I do mean this...I welcomed you in, and actually tried to stand up for your arrogant ways, as I know that new blood does bring new energy. Read this script over and I think...and hope you'll see that you are far from free of criticism and help. We do all want to help and that's what SS is all about.  Get on the train and pull down the chain... Next idiotic post, I'm done with you for good.

I was done with you a while ago. The irony trip did it for me. That was fun... thanks for playing.

This has got to be a troll thread, surely?

Why the attitude towards Jeff and Kevin, Dustin? They're just trying to help you. Don't you want their help?

Dustin, you allow your unfounded arrogance and to get in the way of learning something. That's the real shame of it. Do you actually suppose you can learn nothing from anyone else?

Your original comment about having John, your protag, "save the cat" by stripping and donating his clothes to charity, aside from demonstrating your hyper sensitivity to criticism, demonstrates your shallow understanding of what it takes to make a character relatable.

For example, John, in those opening pages, might do something completely obnoxious, something that is very uncharitable. Maybe there is a beggar on the streets with a cup and a sign "will work for food" and John puts his half eaten sandwich in the cup.  Some audiences could find this repulsive, but in theory other audiences could find it relatable.

As I said, in Ferris Bueler the kid is lying to his parents and pretending to be sick, not exactly save the cat stuff, but we relate to him for it.

In The Hangover, one of the characters is engaged and obsessed with pleasing his fiance, but under the influence of unplanned narcotics he marries a hooker. This is more of a situational predicament, but it still makes the character more relatable.

Now, you can have a story, as you do, where a regular guy just happens to have really bad stuff happen to him. But then what is the purpose of the first 6 pages of this story? If you are going to go that route, why not just have the guy walk through his bleak neighborhood, get home, we meet his wife, and then the intruders come in on page 2 or 3?

Those 6 pages are prime real estate where you should do 2 things: first, make John either more interesting or relatable, as I have said; second, work more purposely on the bond between the guy and his wife so that when sh!t happens there is more at stake.

As it is you waste that space with Xbox, urination, toking, etc. I am a fellow amateur, so don't take offense to this, but that is amateur use of those pages. Most of us are here to learn, and that's how feedback helps, should you ever become open to it.

Now let's talk about your confusion on where gratitude is proper. This thread is on YOUR script. When someone spends time on your script, and gives you remarks, whether you agree with those remarks or not, you begin with these two words: thank you.

Then if you wish to politely disagree, that's fine, and a little give and take on things can be helpful to everyone. That's how we learn.

Let me see things from your perspective for a moment. You believe I misinterpreted your response to my comments on your script. Other readers seemed to have had a similar interpretation as I did, but if your response was intended to be respectful, then from your perspective we misunderstood.

Even under that perspective, your reply should have been this: 'I regret that you have misunderstood my response and I want you to know I am grateful for the time you spent on my work".

Considering the war going on in your thread before my review, you should have been particularly grateful that I took a very honest and productive approach. But your very first post just comes off as being a wise a$$. Now perhaps cultural differences or some other communication factor led to a misunderstanding, but that could have been avoided if you began with these two words: thank you.

To those who have read this, have you watched Harry Brown? I just read the first few pages and based on what I'm seeing, we're essentially looking at a retread of Harry Brown. Not that that is bad, it's just a heads up on the kind of slow paced drama that I imagine Dustin is going for.

It picks up dramatically on page 6, Andrew, so I don't think he's going for slow paced drama at all. There is a violent home invasion, and as of page 12, that invasion is still ongoing.

The dialogue sounds reasonably authentic, but hard for an American to say.

Andrew is correct about the way the tone is established, so depending on what the writer's goal of the story is, that is something that could be considered to change also. Not advocating, just saying it could be considered.

My recommendation is to have that super cool, likable John smoke a whole shitload more weed and play XBox a few more hours.  You could insert the TV screen and show the actual games he's playing.  I'd keep this up for at least 13 or 14 pages, so we really get a sense of who John is and his character arc could be trying to win the game he's playing.

When the yobs break in, John, Cynthia, Yob 1, Yob 2, and Yob 3.5 could all play XBox until the sun rises - maybe even a different game, just to really mix things up and make the event alot more entertaining for John, Cynthia, Yob 1, Yob 2, and Yob 3.5, as well as the readers and all those Brits who will buy the DVD based on the name of the movie.

After a few hours of playing (maybe 25-41 pages), have Cynthia go back into the kitchen to make some more food - GRAVY!  Have her put it on "the" plates and either she can serve everyone, or everyone can come into the kitchen for their plates.

I would definitely make sure that John uses his remote to turn on the TV while they eat and have some news on in the background, in case no one talks because of all the GRAVY in their mouths.

Just an idea that may make this even more exciting than it already is.

Quoted from Dreamscale   You could insert the TV screen and show the actual games he's playing.

I understand there is some Kitchen Planning Software out there, but I don't know if it's available on XBox. But does it have to be an Xbox - could they not be using a normal PC? There's still lots of Railway Building Games for PC, maybe show them playing that?

WTF is going on here?  I can't leave you kids alone for a minute?

Why are any of you still on this thread at all?  Half of you said you were "done with this" about 40 posts ago.

Just let this Dustin yob have the last word and move on already.

I mean, honestly.

Quoted from Andrew To those who have read this, have you watched Harry Brown? I just read the first few pages and based on what I'm seeing, we're essentially looking at a retread of Harry Brown. Not that that is bad, it's just a heads up on the kind of slow paced drama that I imagine Dustin is going for.

Just to back up what Kev and other's have been saying about character intro's. In Harry Brown, I think it's established early on that Michael Caine's character is an elderly war vet, who visits his dying wife in hospital and occasionally likes a pint with his one mate in the pub. We like him early on, (maybe because it's Michael Caine?) and are already rooting for his vengeance after the aftermath of what we can guess will come at the hands of the bad kids.

In this script, yeah -- all we see is light drug use, X-box,  guy who doesn't wash and a wife that won't shag him.  Not all that engaging early on, I guess, in terms of this being cinematic or visual.  

Duncan may hit back with his reasoning for this -- that he's keeping it 'real' or whatever.  

I've written a few Brit scripts aimed at this similar market. Miserable people leading miserable lives. In a nutshell, the info I have garnered from some people in the industry is that the spec pile is full of these things, and it's almost futile, because these things can all too easily be produced in house by prodco's. However, If Duncan has producer interest in this then all power to him.

Just a few thoughts.  

This thread has been very interesting and educational in a number of ways.

Sorry, Bert.

I'm done with this thread now...or 40 posts ago...one of those.