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Offline by Gary Rowlands (rolo) - Thriller - When a bed-ridden teen discovers his online crush has been murdered, he investigates her death, leading him on a hunt to stop her killer before he strikes again. 98 pages - pdf, format
Great first page! However, you start us off with a SLUG and failed with a mandatory "FADE IN:" -- so I'd suggest fixing that.
Overall, I'm surprised you fitted all the intensity that you did onto the first page, and it was well done, might I add. Nice mystery already as to why this guy is running and scared and out of breath.
Will make sure to get back to this soon, no time to read anymore, but you're off to a good start IMO. Well done.
-- Curt
"No matter what you do, your job is to tell your story..."
Wow. that was nice. I watched million of movies but this one still surprised me at the end was pretty intense during all 80 pages.
SPOILERS. The concept of the story is very similar to Movies Like Sixth Sense and The Others that's why I believe it will be hard to be made cos producers will say same concept different story.
However I just loved your rich language and variety of words you use. " Kills the light. Slams his head on the pillow." First 20 pages was just a killer couldn't stop reading, but little bit later pacing slowed down. And then story shocked me with possibility that he may be killer. But the end was so awesome. That I wanted to read the whole story again to see how it worked out.
Few issues I had while reading
Dave has zero friends in Facebook. seriously? zero friends. where he lives in Ethiopia? dogs has more friends on Facebook. change to 3 all his relatives.
Many times you wrote what we cannot see. " DAVE Scowls. He’s in no mood for prayers." You need to show. For example. Dave scowls and looks lost in thoughts. or "For the first time in a long time, Dave feels good abouthimself - even a little proud!" I would write Dave looks cheerful.
" Suddenly, we catch a glimpse of a silver charm bracelet draped around the killer’s wrist as SHE? wields the dagger" You can't say we it's a spec script. just say bracelet drops...
" Dave’s puzzled. Something’s wrong. But he’s not sure what?" How can we as a viewers see that he is not sure? I would say daves face shows million thoughts runs through his mind.
" DAVE She’s a goddamn human lie detector! I keep doing this she’s gonna end up spooked or lied to... Either way she’s gone. MEI You’re just scared of losing her! DAVE M-Maybe I am." Seriously? dave knows she is a ghost for few hours and he is afraid of loosing her? why? becouse he want sex? friendship with ghost?
"Truth is, I’d kill for a Mother like yours. A tear trickles down Dave’s face. Only know does he realize just how special his Mom is."
Not believeable that Dave realizes how mother care for him just when crazy lady whants to kill his mother
In general I enjoyed to read that. I am waiting next one!
The script is a contained supernatural thriller intended to be shot on a micro budget. Consequently, it does not have an abundance of striking visuals and is mostly dialogue driven (hope that doesn't put anybody off!) It has a fairly slow build and also starts off quite light in tone. However, the story does become increasingly dark as it progresses and has some pretty big twists in the third act. (If you manage to read that far that is?!)
@ Bogey - Just tried the link myself seems to be working okay now.
@ Lon - Would welcome your thoughts!
@ AmbitionIsKey - Thanks so much for the positive comments - they're much appreciated! As for starting off with a SLUG and no FADE IN - I was hoping nobody would notice! Truth is - FADE IN took Dave's accident onto page 2 and I wanted to have it all happen on page 1 - so that it would hopefully hook people straight away!
@ INTS - Glad you like it! Your Facebook comment made me lo! I can see what you're saying - I wanted to create a little sympathy for him and also the fact he has no Facebook friends is meant to tie into the ending if that makes sense? Good point about the 'unfilmables, - I'll give them a tweak. Thanks for the read!
Gary, Well, well. Looks like I've found my next read! Came across this kinda by accident, but I'm glad I did. I'm only 5 pages in, but i'll be reading the rest over the next few days. I'll post some more thoughts then.
So far...forget about the first page and the accident. It's a good hook, but it wasn't what hooked me. What hooked me is your writing style. Your action lines are concise and to the point. And your descriptions are vibrant! I mean, I saw colors, man. I thought they were that good.
Quick question...what number draft is this? 1st, 2nd, 3rd...?
Gary, Read this last night in line a hour! Quickest read ever.
As I'm sure you already know you need to go over this with a fine toothed comb. There are a few spelling mistakes. And your formatting, I don't know. You have no traditional slugs, like, INT. and so forth. I mean, I know that was your intention, but I'm not sure if that is correct or not. Certainly did not hurt the read--it made it better, quicker IMO.
Your storytelling and pacing came across very well. Your descriptions were excellent. Linda especially. We got a real good sense of who she was and what she looked like. I thought she was a complete bitch, but in the end...man, you had me completely fooled!
Dave was a likeable guy. Always important. Really felt for him and his tough decisions in regards to Debbie.
Mei was interesting. A bit of comic relief, whether or not it was intended. And the choice of her name --MEI--sounds like ME? Definitely trying to tell us something there as to who she really was.
Funny, but Trexler sounded like she could have been a man. Popeye arms? I couldn't get that out of my head for the entire third act. Kept making me think of a man.
All in all, nicely done. Quick. Tense. Twist ending that I know i didn't see coming. I usually like to let myself get wrapped up in a story, so I don't think ahead too much. I just let the story take me where it wants. I had no problem letting that happen with this one.
Would def like to see something of yours that doesn't take place in one location. See how you deal with diff locations and more characters.
There's nothing wrong with a FADE IN at all, don't let anyone worry you about that. Directions can be changed at any time, what's important is developing the story and idea.
And if you're planning to shoot this yourself then its definitely wise to put in directions.
As for unfilmables, leave them in - they add character and flare to writing, and can make the director/set designer etc job a lot easier. They can also help the actors get into the mindset of the character. If you look at some classic scripts on here for films like Chinatown etc there's an awful lot of unfilmables in them. I don't know of any producer in the industry who would throw something out due to a bit of added flare to the description (check my signature).
SPOILERS
In short I liked it. I don't want to sound like one of those people who always try and be clever by 'guessing the ending' of something, but it was painfully obvious that Dave was indeed dead - and this has been done before, so much that this twist is more predictable now than a normal ending.
This would need a rewrite, but imagine if everyone was lead to believe that Dave was dead and as a ghost - and then at the end we suddenly find out he's alive! Has that been done before? Could be an interesting idea.
But for a minute I believed Dave was the killer and then Linda - it's a real art form, writting a whoddunnit and successfully tricking viewers/readers but you managed it here, and just for that it means that this is a good piece of writing - be proud!
Great feeling of isolation, reminded me a bit of 'the bone collector' in a way - except of course there are other characters outside of Denzel's room.
Action ticked along nicely - although it was fairly spaced out, so it may run well under 80 mins (I'm using the classic resolve that 80 pages - 80 mins) - but then again for a microbudget project that's no real problem.
"We don't make movies for critics, since they don't pay to see them anyhow."
@ Steve - Sorry for the rather slow reply! I didn't think the script would garner any more reads and only checked in to see how many views it had received! Firstly, I'm absolutely thrilled you enjoyed the story and liked my writing!
To answer your questions: This is the fourth draft of Offline - The story was in place from the beginning, I just tweaked it - Tried to make it as good as I possibly could. As for any spelling mistakes, I use Final Draft and always use the spell check - problem is, I'm a Brit writing for the US market and Final Draft regonises both country's spellings as correct: Color, colour etc - so it's really tough to get the spellings right.
The formatting is, as you guessed, a deliberate choice. I wanted to make the read as fast as possible and because the story takes place almost entirely in one location, didn't think I needed to use INT. etc all the time.
As for Mei sounding like Me and the true meaning of her name - you nailed it!
Trexler sounding like a man because of her 'Popeye' arms - I wanted her to sound strong and powerful - but not sound like a man lol. Might need to tweak that!
The biggest compliment I can pay you is, everything I wanted the reader to feel and get out of the story - You got! (might sound like a backhanded compliment to myself - but that's not what's intended!)
Thanks for reading Offline right through to the end and for all your positive comments! Let me know if you would like me to read something of yours? - Happy to return the read!
@ the goose - Thanks so much for giving Offline a read! Have to say I agree with your view on Unfilmables - if used sparingly they can and do add character and flare to writing and also make the director's job a lot easier.
I'm glad you liked the story! Have to say a few people have guessed Dave's 'situation' though most have not!
As for your suggestion about not having Dave be dead, but everyone thinking he was - I actually tried it in draft 3 - It worked to an extent - however the ending felt a bit flat. As well as being a contained supernatural thriller, it's also, in part, a love story between Dave and Debbie - them ending up together was more emotionally satisfying than Dave being alive, but effectively all alone.
Saying: "this is a good piece of writing - be proud" - Really does make me proud! Thanks so much for the kind words!
More than happy to read something of yours in return!
Finally, one thing I would like to make clear, particularly as you're not the first person to make this assumption (sorry for the use of Caps - not shouting out you - just want to make things clear!):
I AM NOT PLANNING TO SHOOT THIS MYSELF - UNFORTUNATELY, I DO NOT HAVE THE REQUISITE SKILLS/FINANCE TO PULL IT OFF - I POSTED THIS ON SIMPLYSCRIPTS IN THE HOPE THAT A TALENTED PRODUCER/DIRECTOR/FILM MAKER WOULD SPOT THE STORY'S POTENTIAL AND WANT TO WORK WITH ME ON IT?
It definitely is a piece to be proud of - that's for sure. Perhaps could do with a few more re-writes but there's nothing about it that majorly lets it down.
The only thing that might ruin the ending for some is that audiences nowadays are so cynical that they expect a 'twist' ending more than they do a normal one.
However, I think you should look for a production group in your area - have a word with them and see if you share the same vision of how your idea should be translated to film. Because its a driven plot with limited characters - and as you say a 'microbudget' so the chances are they'd love this sort of thing.
Low-budget horrors, like this, which rely more on plot and suspense than gore and zombies often do really well at festivals etc. Just something for you to bear in mind.
"We don't make movies for critics, since they don't pay to see them anyhow."
I think you really have something here, man. Major props. Good job! One thing I want to say: if you ever get this off the ground, you better make sure it's done under your terms and conditions, or raise the money to do it yourself. Since pretty much your entire script takes place in a bedroom, it shouldn't be that difficult. I say this because I can see Offline being a terrible, terrible movie in the wrong hands. Like, a really, really shitty, ultra low-budget straight-to-video flick with God-awful actors. Something I would probably try watching only to turn it off about 10 minutes in. You have something here, I think, and you should be real careful how you handle it.
That said, for a script that's set about 85 pages mostly in a bedroom, I think you did a really good job with it all. Not once was I bored. Nothing ever lagged for me. In fact, I found myself extremely engaged with Dave and Debbie, and was on the edge of my seat most of the time. Dave is an extremely likeable guy and I was rooting for him the whole way to solve Debbie's murder.
Your writing is tight, and the lack of slugs makes it tighter. I liked how you just simply used minis like "NIGHT" or "DAY" or "LATER" to tell us where we were at, and I think it works because we're never switching locations. We're essentially in Dave's bedroom the whole entire time. I can see how some readers would be against it, and I'm not telling you to do it, but I didn't mind it here.
@ reaper550 - Wow! What can I say? What a fantastic review!! Makes me truly humble.
Also, thanks for the great advice! - Something I will definitely take on board (if it ever gets filmed of course) is ensure "it's done under my terms and conditions"! I'd absolutely hate to see it done badly with God-awful actors!
Thank you so much for the read and for recommending Offline! Much appreciated!
cheers
rolo
P.S. Happy to return the read - let me know if you'd like me to read something of yours?
This might seem a strange request but could some of the folks who've contacted me privately saying how much they've enjoyed the script possibly leave a comment or two on the discussion board about it?
Trying to drum up as much interest as possible in OFFLINE - So would be great if those folks could share their thoughts on it for everyone to see!
@ reaper550 - Thanks for highly recommending Offline for a second time! Truly appreciate it! I'm admittedly not as active as some - But I try to read and comment whenever I can. Will certainly try to do more though!
@ the goose - Thanks for vouching for Offline for a second time! Much appreciated!
@ reaper550 - Thanks for the heads up on these! Haven't read any of them, but will certainly check them out! To be honest, most of the scripts I've read and commented on have been 'Script of the Day' - And seeing how they're literally only up for a day it probably looks like I never read/comment! Lol.
Looking forward to giving the scripts you mentioned a read! Cheers, buddy.
@ reaper550 - Thanks for the heads up on these! Haven't read any of them, but will certainly check them out! To be honest, most of the scripts I've read and commented on have been 'Script of the Day' - And seeing how they're literally only up for a day it probably looks like I never read/comment!
"Scripts of the Day" are not only up for 1 day. That day just so happens to be that script's "day". They have their own thread just like every other script posted on SS.
Rolo, I actually looked at your posts, and it seems the vast majority are on Babz Buzz or your own work. That's an issue and most likely why you're getting so few reads. The reality is that you should read numerous scripts from numerous writers. That way, those numerous writers will return the favor when they see you have a new script posted.
Just a word of caution - when you read a script that's been posted for a long time, detailed feedback is most often not required or even appreciated. But, that doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't read older scripts and post your thoughts.
It's also often a good idea to contact the writer first and ask if there's a new version available. In regards to Fade to White, there is, and if you're interested, I can E-mail it to you.
@ Dreamscale - Have definitely posted lots about Babz Buzz! I love her and her podcast! Didn't realize I'd posted that much about my own work (not saying I haven't, just didn't realize I had) other than to thank people for their comments etc.
I'll be the first to admit that up to now, I haven't read as much as others, and of the scripts I have read and commented on, they have mostly been 'Script of the Day'.
Thanks for the advice about contacting the writer first to ask if there's a new version available (makes sense) and about treading carefully when reading older scripts, in case, detailed feedback might not be required/appreciated.
I plan to get much more involved with this site and would love to read Fade to White, so please E-mail it to me.
I have been meaning to read this for a while. Got a few scripts to read at the moment, and one to write, but it shouldn't take me long to get to this as the logline is definitely something I'd consider WATCHING in the cinema.
Page 1 - For a moment there, I was expecting this to be like Roadkill/Joy Ride (Paul Walker, Steve Zahn)...
Page 3 - Why does Dave have a box of women’s shoes in his bedroom?
Page 3 - No need for Home sweet home...
Page 8 - Linda is a real bitch, lol.
Page 12 - Aaaah... now we’re getting somewhere with “Lunar Loony”.
Page 13 - He grimaces at a photo of a ecstatic, change the “a” to “an”, an ecstatic Debbie.
Page 13 - Dave’s reaction is funny to me, OH MY GOD. Between each word OH *long pause* MY *eyes widen* GOD! In other words, the reaction may be taken differently, I find it comic, some may find it serious.
Page 13 - He trembles uncotrollably, should be, He trembles uncontrollably. You missed the “N”.
Page 17 - Linda returns brush in hand, should be, Linda returns, brush in hand. Add a comma to break the action up. (I do this myself a lot, then I read it and *facepalm* lol).
Page 20 - Mei dialogue “I know case well” could be due to her Chinese accent, but from an English standpoint, the above should read, “I know the case well”.
However, as she is Chinese, some of the Chinese people I know do miss the occasional word. So, if that’s what you’re going for with her, there’s nothing wrong with the miss.
Page 31 - Starting to think there’s more to Dave than meets the eye after that conversation with Mei. And why would Linda visit a medium? Questions, questions... I’ll take that as a plot point, could be wrong, but I have an inkling.
Page 31 - Debbie dialogue “Why’d you hate your mom?” should be, “Why d’you hate your mom?”, as Why’d usually refers to “Why did” whereas you mean “Why do”.
Page 35 - Definitely starting to sense something. Whenever Dave and Linda speak it’s as if she’s speaking to the wall, and he’s just replying to her with sarcastic responses and angered tones, which she has yet to react to.
Page 36 - Yeah, definitely something going on with Dave and Linda. No mother is that cruel.
Page 45 - Not sure what she mean’s by that, is not needed, but it doesn’t matter to me, some might not like unfilmables, it doesn’t bother me none.
Page 46 - Box of Jimmy Choo’s... OH... MY... GOD! No freaking way!
Page 55 - There is a twist in the story. You had me believing for a while that *spoiler* was the killer, nice twist there.
Page 57 - Vengeful Spirit... I like this, however, a part of me believes, Dave would require something of the girl’s in order for her to appear in his presence. Still, I like the ghost thing.
Page 65 - Holy ****, what? Never saw that coming.
Page 67 - Mei dialogue “Cops say Trexler already on route” should be, “Cops say Trexler already en route”.
Page 67 - Dave cast an anxious gaze, should be, Dave casts an anxious gaze.
Page 74 - WOW! A part of me knew something like that was gonna happen, didn’t think it would, but now it has I am very pleased with the outcome. Not pleased as in happy, just pleased as the story just took a dramatic twist of fate that boosts this greatly.
Page 75 - This furthers my account on page 35. When I said whenever Dave and Linda spoke it felt as though they weren’t even connecting properly. As if she was talking to the wall, etc.
Page 80 - Only know does he realize... should be, Only now does he realize.
Gary, this is fantastic. I read it in one-sitting start-to-finish without a break.
The relationship between Debbie and Dave was fantastic. I felt something towards them, really well developed characters with outstanding chemistry and a common past shrouded in secrecy until the penny drops.
The Killer was your A-typical psychopathic nutcase, nothing wrong with that at all. Also, fantastic twist with *spoiler* becoming *spoiler*.
Dave and Linda’s relationship always seemed rocky from the get-go, and though I had an inkling that Dave was in fact *spoiler* it never really spoilt the read at all.
As a fan of the supernatural/ghost stories, I always know when (thanks quite a bit to the Sixth Sense) a character is not what they seem.
As I said though, knowing early (or having an inkling) did not by any means spoil the story.
As for the story, I loved it. Start to finish.
The mystery behind what Dave was running from at the start of the story, to the revelation of who Dave was running from at the end of the story, was well worth spending time reading.
Grade: A
You have something great here. Something I, one day, would hope to see made into a feature length movie.
A few typos here and there, but nothing severely crippling to the writing, which is great. Some unfilmables too, I often get into my stories a lot so I add things you can’t see, it might bother some folk but it bothers me none.
It was a pleasure reading this. I really enjoyed it and I am going to link this script in my signature, as I feel it deserves more reads.
Also, guess Linda put the box of Jimmy Choo's in Dave's bedroom?
EDIT: Forgot to mention, great use of only 3 locations. I was never bored in Dave's bedroom as there was always something going on.
@ Leegion - Wow! Truly blown away by your fantastic notes!! I can't believe the number of typos you spotted! Damn spell check I use is rubbish. Lol.
At the risk of repeating myself, I'm truly thrilled that you enjoyed Offline as much as you did! Makes me proud and more than a little humble. Linking the script to your signature is fantastic. Thanks, man. Much appreciated!!
Hey Gary, as promised, here are my thoughts on your script, Offline.
As I mentioned in one of your reviews of my script, I like how you start with a SPOILER ALERT. So, I’ll do the same here.
SPOILER ALERT – THE FOLLOWING MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS, AND SINCE THIS IS A MYSTERY, PROCEED WITH CAUTION IF YOU HAVE NOT READ THE SCRIPT.
There’s a lot I want to say here. The majority will be my views and personal opinions, but some things will be based on what I call proper technical script writing and format. I started taking page by page notes (which are attached at the end), but I stopped rather quickly, as I was spending way too much time being a stickler, and we’d be in for a quadruple post.
I read this Friday and have been trying to organize my thoughts and feelings since then. I wasn’t very successful in doing either, so this will move in random order, as things hit me that I know I want to bring up. Let’s get to it…
WRITING
I actually opened this up when it was first posted and quickly (within 1 page) closed it, as the staccato style of writing was very off-putting for me. I did follow along as feedback started rolling in and have seen all the praise you’ve received, which is great…but my first subject to discuss is the actual writing and the style you’ve chosen to use.
Obviously, many readers and writers enjoy a quick staccato style of writing, which is very sparse in terms of visual images, does not contain full sentences, and often, doesn’t even include full thoughts. Many Pro scripts are written like this, and I have to imagine that’s why writers try and adopt such a style.
It’s definitely not for me, however, and I’d say the same things to a Successful Pro writer that I would to an amateur writer.
IMO, it’s a very tough read. It’s not a pleasurable read. And, it’s not a visual read.
You’ve received lots of feedback, saying how quick and easy a read it is, but IMO, that’s actually deceiving, and I honestly think that readers can and are deceived by this style of writing. Let me explain myself…
Looking over your first 10 pages, I see a total of seven 3 line passages (this in itself is not a bad thing!). The vast majority are only 1 line. Many of those 1 liners are a single word or several words. What does this mean? Well, it obviously means that the writing is very sparse and there’s not much here, which accounts for the comments about being a breeze to read, etc.
At only 85 pages, the script is “short” by most standards, but the reality here is that this is “very short”, based on the staccato style you used. Take into account the very limited locations (changes in setting/Slugs) and characters, and the fact that the vast majority of the prose is dialogue, and IMO, you’ve got about an hour long finished product on your hands, at best, which to me, is far too short.
The biggest complaints I have with the actual writing is the lack of visuals, the awkward (to me) prose (non complete sentences, incorrect punctuation), and the constant use of unfilmables, asides, and “tells”. But, I also understand that many like this, many utilize it, and many see nothing wrong with it. I can’t and don’t want to tell you how to write or how not to write, but I will always make my feelings known.
Another issue is your Slug use. To me, good, solid Slugs can add so much to a Spec script. They can add so much information and visuals, while not taking up any additional space, and for me, space (actual lines with prose/info) is King.
Keeping with that thought, for me, “setting your scene” is also key, and it starts with a strong, visual Slug, followed by visual descriptors that “set the scene”. IMO, you haven’t done a very good job on that account, even though the vast majority of the script is set in a single, simple location. Many have applauded you for your Mini’s here – “LATER”, “MOMENTS LATER”, “NIGHT”, “DAY, etc. For me, however, again, I just can’t get much of a visual picture from these.
So, in summation, I understand how and why some will applaud this as a “lean” quick read, but IMO, it’s both a tough read and it’s deceiving, based on the style being used.
STORY
Although I thought I’d really dislike the story (especially since it’s set in pretty much 1 location and has very little actual action), that turned out not to be the case. I did enjoy this little mystery as it played out and I have to applaud you for making that happen.
Very little actually happens, but you wrote this in a way that draws the reader in and makes us want to both know what happens and figure out what is going to happen. That’s a big plus and IMO, very difficult to do successfully.
For me, it moves a little too slow and far too little actually happens, but this is obviously based on the story you chose to tell…and how you chose to tell it. You succeeded when it’s all said and done.
IMO, it’s an early mistake to reveal Dave in the hospital. I see why you did it and it “works” potentially as a red herring, or maybe a misdirection is the better way to put it, but red herrings and misdirections are a risk, because savvy readers (and viewers) may catch on and make assumptions that prove to be correct. I’d seriously consider taking out the hospital scene completely and go right from the “accident” to Dave in his bedroom, 4 weeks later. I think most would lose the consideration that Dave is actually dead (or in a coma), if we didn’t see the hospital scene at all.
I also think it’s a mistake to reveal Debbie is a ghost in your logline. I actually didn’t read the logline, as you sent me the latest draft, so until it’s actually revealed that Debbie is a ghost, I wasn’t sure – I began to have my suspicions, but this is something I actually enjoyed – not knowing for sure.
You set up a nice little mystery in both Debbie and the Lunar Looney and although for me, it moved too slowly, you did manage to draw me in, as Dave set out to solve the mystery and “save” the next victim.
You’ll see in my notes that as I read, I basically ticked off each potential suspect, but didn’t know who was going to prove to be our Antag. BUT, and this is a big but, there were so few potential suspects and as it works out, the actual “killer” isn’t intro’d until very late in the script, it loses a lot of its impact and even power as we go along.
Basically, what I’m saying is this – you did a good job on the mystery aspects, but with only a total of 5 potential suspects (2 of which, by name, at least, we never actually see), one can pretty easily throw out a guess or assumption and have a 33% chance of being correct. But again, I also understand that this was your choice in writing such a contained script.
When it’s clear on Page 66, who the killer actually is, it’s a little bit of a letdown for me, because of the little screen time he/she had (I think this person was actually intro’d on Page 50 or so). And after we get the rather clichéd rundown, directly from the killer’s mouth on why they did what they did, it kind of dragged this down further, as in, why? really? And, I see.
BUT, even though I was pretty sure Dave wasn’t what he seemed, you did a good job with your finale, and it had good scares, tension, and the final twist reveal, although, again, I was pretty sure from literally Page 1 that was the situation (or something similar).
I was not fond of the Flashbacks near the end. I think there’s got to be a better way to show this, but I’m not sure right now what to recommend or even suggest.
I also wasn’t fond of the Antag’s demise. It just didn’t play out real or believable to me, and the final “fall” may actually play out rather comically onscreen – not sure, but it was intense up to that point and I bet there’s a better ending.
BUT (you like all these “buts” – LOL) the final, final ending is strong…even touching, as Dave and Debbie get together and walk off into the light. And IMO, that’s due to the…
CHARACTERS AND DIALOGUE
Writing engaging characters is always tough, even when the sky’s the limit in what they have to do and interact with. In such a contained environment and with so few actual characters, it’s very difficult, and IMO, you did great in this regard.
I think I said early on in my notes that I couldn’t relate very well to Dave, as he’s pretty much 180 degrees away from myself or the vast majority of peeps I associate with. But, I grew to like him (even though I was pretty sure he wasn’t what he seemed to be). Same with Debbie. There was a cuteness to their relationship and conversations/interactions.
Since everything here up until the end is dialogue based, it obviously holds true that the reasons these characters worked, was based on what they said and how they said it.
Even Mei and Trexler worked for the most part. Mei was an interesting, mysterious character and her dialogue totally worked. You captured the Chinese dialect well and for me, she even worked as some comic relief. Trexler’s dialogue was very sharp at times. She was evil and menacing for sure, but also had a certain level of humor in what she said and how she said it.
IMO, this is where you definitely shined – with characters and their dialogue and this is where most writers fail miserably, so a big Kudos on that!
SUMMARY
So, it’s hopefully clear that IMO, there are plusses and minuses here.
Personally, I don’t like the style of writing you chose to use. Actually, I detest it. The asides always are a killer for me. Normally, I wouldn’t continue reading when I come across this.
The story works pretty well for what it is you wanted to write about. It’s tough conceiving an entertaining tale with so few locations, characters, and action. And, when it’s mystery based, it’s even tougher. You succeeded here when all is said and done, but, for me at least, that’s due to the…
…strong characters and dialogue, where you excelled. If your characters and their dialogue didn’t work, this would be a dull groaner of a script, but that’s not the case. You kept me engaged throughout and as I said above, I really liked the closing image you left us with.
FINAL THOUGHTS
Now, for the not so good news, but keep in mind, this is merely my personal opinion.
As Reaper said, my biggest fear is that this would be picked up and turned into a micro/no budget DTV. Without the proper talent associated, it could be terrible onscreen. Even with the proper talent and some kind of budget, as written, I see major problems.
First of all, there’s not nearly enough here for a feature. Your 85 pages, as written would doubtfully even be an hour of film. And the hour that we’d get would be extremely slow for the most part, with literally nothing but talking heads, in very uninteresting locales.
What works on the page, doesn’t always transfer well to film, and I think this script and the writing style you employed would be a good example of this – as in, the holes that I brought up would become more obvious. Asides may work for some on paper, but they do not transfer to film at all.
But, I honestly believe there are some things you could do to overcome the above. First and foremost is adding “more” action – maybe by having Dave able to see through the eyes of the killer early on. Maybe even start with an earlier kill to set the stage and get things moving. I think the Mei character needs to be reworked, so that we actually see her (she’d obviously not be Chinese anymore though – LOL!). Maybe even have Dave’s father alive and in the script, just to add some time and another potential suspect.
No matter what you end up deciding to do, understand that 85 pages of this staccato style writing and 85% of it being dialogue, does not transfer to an 85 minute movie.
Overall, again, I want to congratulate you for what you achieved here. We all have our own preferences for writing styles and even genres and the like. You’ve crafted a good tale here and you did it by writing solid characters who come across as real people, who speak and act like real people. Dave and Debbie’s relationship is very well done and that’s very tough to pull off.
Page 1 – Opening Slug is very broad and not visual, IMO. As this scene plays out, it becomes obvious that a more exact Slug is required.
“Full moon shimmers.” – Not sure why peeps omit the opening word (“A” or “The”) of sentences like this. IMO, it reads awkwardly, doesn’t save any real space, definitely doesn’t add anything, and is a mistake I see quite often.
“Perched on a branch, the dark silhouette of a CROW... Watching... Waiting...” – OK, first of all, this line doesn’t belong in the same passage as your first 2 sentences. It’s a different thought entirely and should be its own passage. BUT, also, it’s awkwardly written, IMO. Don’t get me wrong, I love using ellipses’, but here, they don’t quite work.
SIDE NOTE – I know that the technically correct way to use an ellipse is to skip a space after (like you did), but using a capitalized word doesn’t make much sense to me. Personally, I do not skip a space after an ellipse because when using an ellipse, it’s all 1 continuing sentence, and I never want to line break on an ellipse.
“Suddenly,…” – I would advise not to use words/phrases like “suddenly” or “all of a sudden”, unless it really is necessary. IMO, it’s a waste and usually comes off as goofy.
“The crow takes flight. Soars ominously in the moonlight.” – First of all, these 2 sentences should be joined together with a comma. You’ll find that when you do this, the read becomes quicker, if for no other reason, the mind sees a period and associates a full stop in the read. Secondly, the 2nd sentence here, isn’t a sentence – it’s a fragment. I know…I know…scripts don’t have to always contain full sentences, but here, and in most cases, it will read better and quicker, using a comma instead of a period. Finally, “in the moonlight” sounds odd. I’d recommend “into the moonlight”.
I know I’m being picky and have pretty much brought up an issue in each and every line so far. I don’t mean to offend, and if you disagree or just don’t care about this level of detail, please ignore. The more I read, the less detail I’ll bring up, but these kinds of details will most likely come into play throughout your writing, so if you see something you agree with, look for it throughout and make appropriate changes.
“MOMENTS LATER” – Nothing wrong with a Mini Slug here, but as I said above, your opening Slug (that we’re still in) is so nonvisual, I really don’t know where we are or what I’m supposed be seeing/visualizing, and more importantly, Dave is moving, so after “MOMENTS LATER”, is he really still in the same Slug?
I’m not a fan of this short, staccato writing style, because I can’t visualize anything, and in reality, you’re really not even saving lines by using it, as you’re continually skipping lines, because most of your passages are only 1 line long. You end your opening passage under the Mini Slug with an orphan, so you used 2 lines that may read “well” or even “exciting” to some, but the reality is that you said very little.
Your description of Dave is actually unfilmable. No way in the world anyone will see or know that he’s “shy” and “sweet natured”, as he runs for his life. Know what I’m saying?
I don’t understand the use of dashes followed by new sentences (if you use a Capped word, it’s a new sentence).
OK, so now, he’s on a suspension bridge, which, IMO, is definitely a new Slug – this is where he is. This is where the action is taking place. Instead, you use another Mini Slug – OUT OF THE FOG. I understand this is an alternative style to screenwriting, and I’ve seen examples of when it works, and even works well, but it’s difficult to master, and IMO, this isn’t working for me at all, sorry to say.
“18”, “40” – using actual numbers in scripts is a no no. Obviously, there are times when you can and should use numbers, but not in the way you’re doing it here. If nothing else, see how it sticks out every time you do this?
The more I read, the more difficult it is for me to see anything, as your writing style is so filled with prose or novelistic “features” and descriptors, as well as unfilmables, asides, and “tells”.
“Just then…” – again, this is a very novelistic touch and really has no place in a screenplay.
Page 2 – I think it’s best not to comment any further on the writing style or choices you’ve made, as I’d be all over every line and that’s not going to benefit anyone.
I will point out that “FADE IN:” should be left aligned.
I always have my SUPERS following the new Slug, as I doubt your intention is to have this SUPER over a blank screen – know what I mean?
In order to see his legs in such detail, he’s obviously lying there uncovered?
Obviously, Dave is some sort of super geek, right? I mean, he’s 18 and he has Star Wars figures and a poster of Captain Jack Sparrow on his wall? Sounds like he’s much younger, but I don’t really associate with such types, so…who knows.
Page 3 – A box of women’s shoes? Hmm, now I’m really getting worried about Dave…or is this some sort of foreshadowing? We’ll see.
Page 5 – Is this “OLD MANTEL CLOCK” in the room with him? If not, it’s a mistake as written.
Gary, I don’t mean to be an ass, but the asides and cheese filled descriptors are mounting and I really, REALLY detest them…completely takes me out of the read…and makes it so clear this is a read and not a visual journey.
Page 7 – OK, I’m confused. Are Dave and Debbie actually speaking? Are we watching her on the computer screen?
Page 8 – Linda actually smashes the radio with a claw hammer? For reals?
On the bottom of Page 9, the clock strikes midnight and we seem to be in “real time” here. Then, on the middle of Page 11, it’s now 1:00 AM. This isn’t written correctly, as time has obviously passed, yet you didn’t give us any new Mini Slug to show that time passed.
Well, I’m struggling here, as this isn’t my cup of tea, and it seems we’re in for quite a few more pages of dialogue in his bedroom. I have to assume both Dave and Debbie are ghosts or Dave is in a coma or the like.
Page 13 – listen…here’s a great example of why I am having so much trouble visualizing pretty much everything taking place. You say that the Captain Jack calendar (I thought it was a poster earlier) displays today’s date, June 2nd. How does it do that? This is one of many, many, many instances in which you’re merely telling us info, as opposed to showing it, like a script needs to do. Does that make sense?
Page 14 – “She studies his nervous demeanor. Visibly relaxes.” – OK, so again, I just can’t visualize exactly what we’re supposed to be seeing. The scene is in his bedroom and I realize she’s on the computer webcam, but what are we watching with this line? It seems like it’s just her face looking out.
Page 15 – When you go to an “insert” or the like, you have to “return to scene” somehow.
Page 19 – The “MAN’s” dialogue has to be (V.O.), right? Same with Mei Li.
So, Mei Li seems quite odd and her calls don’t seem real. Quite sure Dave must be dead or he’s in a coma and imagining this, but his Mom, Linda’s actions seem to derail this assumption. We’ll see where we go.
Page 50 – A new character is intro’d – finally. We’ve heard of her and I now have to believe we have our full cast of characters set (since the potential killer, Brad, never materialized). So, we have Linda, Mei Li, and Trexler as our potential Antags – unless Dave really does turn out to be the killer. It’s a good mystery and difficult to impossible to know who will be the actual Antag.
Page 60 – “The door almost comes of its hinges…” – “off” – Same mistake on Page 76.
@ Dreamscale - Wow! Jeff! - You've really gone above and beyond in your feedback for Offline! Thanks, man.
I don't think I've ever had anyone dislike my writing style as much as you appear to have! Lol. Truth is, I admire your honesty. My "quick staccato style of writing" is a deliberate choice on my part. I favor a fast read and try to keep description to a bare minimum. I understand not everyone likes this style and I don't have a problem with that. It's just the way I prefer to write.
That said, your notes have made me think about maybe making my writing more visual, (especially as I enjoyed your very visual style of writing!).
You made some valid points about formatting, particularly my use of slugs. Personally, I hate sluglines! Lol. If I had my way they'd only appear in a shooting script! Often, when I read a script, particularly if it's a good script, I find myself skipping the slugs and simply concentrating on the action/dialog. I've heard it said more than once, that industry folks only read the dialog anyway! Lol.
On a more serious note, I loved that you gave the story a chance, and appeared to enjoy it! Coming from a talented writer such as yourself, that's a great thing to hear! Thanks, man.
I'm especially pleased that you liked the characters and the dialog! That's great to know!
As regards the logline, I agree that it's probably best not to reveal Debbie's a ghost. I was advised that any twist that comes before the inciting incident should be included in the logline - On reflection, I think that advice was wrong!
I see your point that "85 pages of this staccato style writing and 85% of it being dialogue, does not transfer to an 85 minute movie." However, I think a skilled director could film this as is, and achieve a running time of 85 minutes. ( I might be wrong - would be interesting to find out! Lol).
Using the description line: "Enough 'Star Wars' figures to start a rebellion" on page 2 as an example - If I were filming this, I'd slowly pan across the entire room, every single nook and cranny, highlight the vast array of 'Star Wars' figures, probably zoom in on some of the more important characters like Darth Vader etc.
What is in effect, an eight word sentence, would take up quite a bit of actual screen time.
Moreover, sometimes it's difficult to predict how long a script will run when filmed. I remember reading a draft of Chris Sparling's 'Buried' that was only 82 pages long and though I enjoyed the story, I thought it was way overwritten and if filmed would 'run' for an hour at best. Similarly, the draft of 'Winter's Bone' I read was only 73 pages long! Yet, if memory serves me right, the movie 'ran' for 90 minutes or more?
Regardless of who's right or wrong on this point, I think it's pretty obvious that you put a considerable amount of thought and effort into constructing these notes, and for that, I'm truly grateful!
I'm definitely going to keep referring to these notes from now on, so please don't think your time was wasted. I assure you it was not!!
Hey Gary, glad my feedback helps. Also glad you took it the way it was intended - as help and my personal opinions.
I don't want to argue with you or Reap...or anyone for that matter, but I do want to address the page length/writing style, and the script specifics here, that affect the length this would run in a filmed version.
First of all, I think we all know the "rule of thumb" about 1 page of text equaling 1 minute of screen time. It is a rule of thumb and does not always apply - it definitely doesn't apply on a page by page basis.
There are several factors that need to be taken into consideration, but overall, it will usually apply, if you take a strict consideration of exactly what's written, to what will be filmed, which is rarely the case when it's all said and done.
First of all, if you have a vast script that covers long periods of time and many different characters and sets, you'll find the page length will increase, as more text is required for description, action, set intros, and character intros. It's just the way it is and there's really no way around it.
Same goes for scripts with lots of action. Unless you decide not to write out any action in any detail, there's no way around this either. Take a script that involves big battles involving many characters. It takes more words, more writing, and thus, more space, to write this out in a way that readers will be able to follow...and see what you're trying to get across.
And, dialogue heavy scripts also run longer on page than they will onscreen. Throw in dialogue between multiple characters, and again, more space is taken up, based on proper formatting.
For instance, if you have a conversation between 2 characters and say, 6 characters, which will run longer on the page? The 6 character conversation, of course, because of the extra dialogue boxes (and blank lines before and after each).
Same goes with short dialogue "bursts" vs. longer dialogue blocks. Each time a character speaks, a dialogue box is necessary, thus, more lines used on the page, and a longer script that won't necessarily run longer in a filmed version.
The situation here is very obvious to me. We have basically 2 characters for the vast majority of the script, talking back and forth to each other, with very little action taking place - almost no action for the vast majority of the script. And, it's all in 1 setting, which is a simple bedroom.
A page of all dialogue runs as long as that dialogue takes to be spoken - Period. No way around it. Sure, there are pauses here and there, but depending on what kind of dialogue it is, it's going to be spoken quickly.
A simple quick test would be to see how much dialogue there actually is, in terms of lines, compared to action/description lines, and "all other lines" which are transitions, dialogue boxes, etc. You can quickly "run" the dialogue in your head, out loud, whatever, and see how long it takes for a page of it. I'm 100% sure you'll find that it takes far less than 1 minute, because most of this is simple back and forth conversation between 2 peeps.
Same will actually go with your action/description lines, as this plays out in a bedroom, which means, once we see the bedroom and whatever needs or wants to be shown, the scene doesn't even shift away from the bedroom - time just passes O.S., and we're back right where we were, only now it's either night or day.
For instance, if your script had multiple scenes where different characters were driving in a car to various places, or past various "things", there are lots of choices a director could make - film EXT shots of the location, INT shots of the peeps in the car, cut back and forth between each, etc. In a single set, in this case a bedroom, there aren't those options available, and no one is going to want to watch extended scenes of Dave or Debbie's face looking out.
The reason I brought this up originally, is because IMO, it's really the biggest issue this script currently has. There's just no way imaginable that this will run more than 65 minutes,a dn I actually think it wold clock in at less than 60 minutes.
Hope this makes sense and gets you thinking about what you could add or do to make this issue go away.
I agree on the page count. It is too short. Maybe an extra 10 is needed?
My own method of testing how long my script would run (or to get a general idea): I'll sit down and read it as it would play out on screen, speaking the dialogue and everything. Of course, I do it the way I would film it. There's just some scripts I won't let any director have...unless they are Scorsese or somebody.
@ Dreamscale - Jeff, regarding Offline's page length, you make some excellent points! When I finished the latest draft, I was mindful that the page length was on the short side (85 pages). To be honest, I was tempted to pad it out, by having the two leads, Dave and Debbie, play some more of their movie quotes game etc. But I realized that it wouldn't enhance the story any, or move it forward. Rather, it was just padding!
Because the page length is obviously an issue, and your comments do indeed make sense and have got me thinking what I could add or do to make the issue go away, I'm currently brainstorming new scenes that will hopefully enhance the story rather than merely pad it out.
Thanks so much for your input, Jeff! Cheers, buddy.
@ Reaper550 - Have to thank you again for getting behind Offline like you have! Not only that, you've given me some great suggestions on some of the scripts to read on this site. As well as some great advice on reading other folks scripts too. (I plan to do lots more reading!)
Best of all, not only have you made me feel welcome here, you've actually made me want to contribute more! - Up until recently, I was an infrequent visitor to Simply Scripts - Here mostly to listen to Babz Buzz and occasionally read the Script of the Day.
That I want to stick around and help were I can, as well as learn were I can, is mostly down to you! Thanks, buddy!
Gary, I agree with Reap for the most part about padding a script, but, IMO, it really comes down to what kind of padding you're really talking about.
In your example about all the various Star Wars figures, or the "game" Dave and Debbie play, no...not a good idea, as I doubt anyone would enjoy watching more of this to the point where it actually increases page count or run time.
But, there are ways you can increase both page count and run time that would benefit the script. Some may call some of these ways "padding", but it always comes down to why and how you do it.
For instance, adding to character depth, motivations or better establishing characters is good. Upping the thrills and scares is great. Adding to the story/plot is great.
You should have a reason, whether it's right or wrong, for everything you include in your script.
@ Dreamscale - Re: Your suggestions/ways for increasing page count for Offline: "Adding to character depth, motivations or better establishing characters is good. Upping the thrills and scares is great. Adding to the story/plot is great."
I think they are all pretty solid! Thanks, Jeff. Take care.
@ Leegion - Having Dave doing some investigative work via the web into how and when the victims were killed is certainly something to think about. And I'm sure I could add an additional scene or two! Though I'd obviously have to be careful not to overdo it, given the abundance of webcam and surfing that takes place in the story already, as I'd be worried it might make the story seem more static? However, combined with Jeff's suggestion of "upping the thrills and scares" it may work. Cheers, Leegion.
Checked this one out based on a recommendation. I liked it. It took a little bit for me to get into this, but as the twists started unfolding, it became a real page turner.
The writing was okay, but the pacing was a bit off for me... the first half of the script felt rushed. Everything moved at such a break-neck speed even though there wasn't much action going on, mostly dialogue. I felt that you didn't give your scenes a chance to breathe before transitioning to the next scene. You kind of just jump into those mini slugs, which are mostly LATER, DAY, NIGHT -- I know it all takes place in the same room pretty much (which is hard to pull off, but you do it fairly well), but there must be another way to indicate the transition from DAY to NIGHT... maybe ANGLE ON the window and show the sun rise (NIGHT to DAY).
Also, with contained scripts, I'd suggest being more specific with the SLUGS in terms of different areas of the room. Maybe instead of a lap top (why would a ghost have a lap top BTW? Is it his mother's?) make it a desktop and have a WORK STATION (mini slug) as part of the room. And maybe have BED or BY THE WINDOW as other mini slugs.
You also have a lot of asides, which I didn't mind, but some do. The script is only 85 pages, which I think is fine for a film that pretty much takes place in one location, but some of your descriptions of main characters are pretty long and there was about a half-page description dedicated to DAVE'S BEDROOM. So the page length may be deceiving.
I know it's the only setting in the whole film, but I'm sure you can fit a good description in a paragraph. Or describe parts of the room as Dave is at those locations:
WORK DESK
A Pirates of the Carribean poster hangs above.
Or something like that.
What I liked most about this were the twists of course. Sure, it had the Sixth Sense twist (main character dead the whole time) and even had a similar way of showing the reveal (FLASHBACKS with Linda speaking to him and he's not there).
I liked the twist with Linda. For a second there, I thought she was the killer, especially after she shows Dave her new shoes, so good job with the deception there.
I hated the Trexler twist at first (her being the killer) mainly because she kind of just shows up at the end of the story... but the 2nd twist with her being Mei made me change my mind -- even though you never show her face (which also bothered me at first at the beginning -- of course, learning the twist, I changed my mind), she still plays a major role early in the story.
The tone threw me off a bit. Very offbeat, borderline silly, over the top at times... with the whole shoe thing, reminded me of an episode of Married With Children (where Al, a women's shoe salesman, has to figure out a crime and, of course, he finds the killer using his knowledge of shoes).
And I thought Trexler's death was a bit silly, her falling out of the window, though I liked how Dave ripped off his leg bandages.
Here's a few random notes I made as I read:
Page 1 - Muscles swimming in an ocean of adrenaline.
I liked some of your descriptive lines, but I thought this was a bit overboard, like something I'd read in a poem or something. It comes across as abstract and doesn't really evoke an image.
Page 2-3: Almost a half a page dedicated to describing Dave's room. Page count may be deceiving, especially with mostly one line action blocks throughout.
Page 3: Two paragraphs used to describe his mother. It was a good description, but you can probably compress that into one paragraph.
Page 12: No problem w/ underlining and CAPPING STAB WOUNDS but...
Page 13: I assumed she was a ghost by the date on the calendar, no need to tell us that she's a ghost in the action block in all caps w/ exclamation point.
Back to page 12: Ka-boom as somewhat of an aside -- thought there was a loud bang or explosion at first.
Page 36: Hmm... and just like that, he hacks into a police file? A little too easy, feels like a quick solution to provide the viewer (and Dave) with information important to the plot/back story.
Page 38-39: So, after a half-page conversation, an hour goes by? The first bell marks midnight and he immediately turns on his computer and talks to Debbie, then after their brief exchange, the bell rings again and it's one.
Page 52: Trexler scene... hmm... no warrant? And she just enters the house and takes the phone? I'll suspend my disbelief for story's sake.
Forget about the above comment, it makes sense later.
Anyway man, this was a solid read. You can definitely add a few pages here, though, maybe add more depth to the characters, particularly Linda (she comes off as crazy and erratic for most of the story, then is all I love you son at the end). Maybe give her longer scenes? I just feel like a lot of the scenes are rushed, kinda makes Linda's turnaround at the end feel out of nowhere despite the twist that Dave was dead the whole time.
And I think you need to let your scenes breathe a little bit... come up with better ways to transition from DAY to NIGHT. And explore that BEDROOM a little bit. You can have WORK DESK, CLOSET, AT THE DRESSER, etc as mini slugs. Make the room feel bigger than it is.
"Checked this one out based on a recommendation. I liked it. It took a little bit for me to get into this, but as the twists started unfolding, it became a real page turner."
That's cool! Thanks!
"the pacing was a bit off for me... the first half of the script felt rushed. Everything moved at such a break-neck speed."
Yeah. See what you're saying. The new draft slows things down a touch.
"I'd suggest being more specific with the SLUGS in terms of different areas of the room."
Nice idea! Will definitely incorporates this suggestion in the new draft.
"there was about a half-page description dedicated to DAVE'S BEDROOM."
Pretty much everything used in the description: Shoes, mirror, DVD's, Poster, pills, mirror etc. Was either a plant or featured later on in the script in some way. None of it was used merely as dressing or to boost the page count - they each had a purpose.
"What I liked most about this were the twists"
Yeah. Once you read the script in its entirety. I think the twists pay off nicely. However, I will almost certainly lose the biggest one - The Sixth Sense twist (main character dead the whole time). Which is pretty scary for me! Lol. But hopefully the story will still work?!
"The tone threw me off a bit. Very offbeat, borderline silly, over the top at times..."
The tone was actually a deliberate choice on my part (at least for the first act!) Disturbia has a similar playful tone for most of the first act. The protagonist, Kyle, builds a Twinkie mountain, almost gets caught spying on his hot neighbor, puts out a fire on his porch that turns out to be a pile of burning dog poop etc. It's only really the second act and onwards where things get progressively darker.
Even the great Rear Window has a similar playful first act - Lots of witty one liners etc.
That said, the new draft aims to be darker, though will still have a few comedic touches sprinkled here and there.
"And I thought Trexler's death was a bit silly, her falling out of the window."
One or two folks have said the same. I've changed it! Hopefully it works and has more impact?!
"Anyway man, this was a solid read. You can definitely add a few pages here, though."
Thanks for the "solid read" compliment! The new draft should address the relatively short page count and looks to be coming in around the 95 page mark!
Thanks Michael for your thoughts on Offline. Much appreciated! Take care, man.
The draft I have of Place Beyond the Pines goes 116 pages but the film I saw was 140 minutes.
Sometimes it varies.
And that was the heavily edited version... I watched an interview with Derek Cianfrance (the writer/ director of Place) and he said that his first edit of the film was over four hours long, and that getting it to below the 2 and 1/2 hour mark which the studio required was a real ball-ache.
Sorry to derail the topic of discussion.
And I've been meaning to read this for a little while, Rolo, but I just haven't found the time. I've got a friend's script which I promised I would read, but as soon as I have read this, this is next on my 'to-read' list
I loved the first half of The Place Beyond The Pines. The second half, what I watched of it, (I never made it to the end) felt like an entirely different movie?!
Would really welcome your thoughts on Offline when you get chance to read it.
I was nowhere near as exhausted after watching the match as I thought I would be, so I managed to read through the rest of the script tonight after all.
So, what did I think of it?
Despite some flaws (which we'll come to), I liked it. I liked it a lot, in fact. I normally dislike contained thrillers, as I view locations/ setting to be an integral part for both the unfolding story and setting suspense. However, I'm a sucker for a good mystery (I'm addicted to Scandinavian crime fiction at the minute), and the mystery was stacked high in this one.
This was one of the easiest, breeziest (hey, that rhymed!) scripts I have read in a long time. And whilst the page count does have something to do with that, the mystery aspect made me want to blitz through this to see if my predictions were correct, which combined with your writing style, to make this a quick, enjoyable read.
I absolutely loved the opening scene as well. You opened the script off with a bang, which really made me sit up and take note.
I also loved the midpoint shift, with Dave becoming the suspect. However, I felt that he was let off the hook far too easily here. I thought that this could have made for some really great tension and could have also upped the stakes; he needs to find out who the killer is, so that he can let himself off the hook.
Now, whilst I said I love a good mystery, I did have a few issues with the conclusion of your mystery here, something which I feel is related to the light page count of this. The best twist endings to mysteries - either books, films or TV shows - are ones which are surprising, but make the most sense to the audience, so that when they are revealed, there is a real 'uh-huh!' moment.
Unfortunately, I didn't have that here.
My main issue with Trexler being the killer, was that it wasn't set up enough. We see her for one scene and then suddenly, BAM! It's revealed in a flashback that she's the killer. Dave doesn't work it out himself... he just gets his memory back and remembers that she's the killer. That's another issue I had with it; I feel that it would be a whole lot more satisfying if Dave works out that she's the killer, versus having his memory gift wrap the reveal for him. Because, at the minute, it just felt a little cheap.
Give us a few more suspects, a few more red herrings. Make us guess more. Weave a web of deceit so that we're certain that we know who the killer is, then pull the rug out from under us and reveal that it is Trexler.
I also had an issue with Linda. She's represented throughout as being a bitch and then suddenly Dave realises she loves him... that didn't work for me. That relationship needed more fleshing out.
I feel that if you use an extra 10-15 pages to cast a bigger web of deceit and develop Dave's relationship with Linda more, this will be a wholly more satisfying piece.
Now, onto the other twist
Unfortunately, I saw it coming. I was questioning how Dave was able to communicate with Debbie from beyond the grave and then the thought of "maybe he's a ghost as well?" popped into my head. So I started looking for things to confirm my belief... which his communication, or lack of, with Linda did. Their convos were always one sided, so I knew that something was up there.
Plus, that twist has been done before numerous times, so it's not as shocking/ surprising as it would have been, had I read this script fifteen years ago (or before the release of The Sixth Sense).
So, what would I do in regards to this twist?
I would personally recommend scrapping it. Whilst I loved them both walking off into the light (no reason you can't still have this; it's possible that Dave could die trying to save his Mum from Trexler, or something), because I saw the twist coming for a good sixty pages, the actual reveal that Dave was dead disappointed me a little, because I wanted to be surprised!
I think it would be cool if you string us along, so that we think he is dead, but then flip the reveal on its head, by revealing that he's alive.
Now, that would have shocked/ surprised me!
But, if you decide to keep it, I would try to throw us off the scent more. Maybe have Mei propose a reason that Debbie is contacting Dave, because this is what started me on my own investigation...
Below are a few page specific comments I made whilst reading:
Page 1- Great opening.
Page 12- Dave: “No. Can’t be. It’s impossible!” Wasn’t a fan of that line, man.
Page 13- Same with this one: “OH... MY... GOD!!” Read more like from a comedy, in my opinion.
Page 15- “A solitary tear trickles down his cheek as he struggles to come to terms with her death.” A solitary tear is a little clichéd, man.
Page 18- Linda: “Take him some of these. Roses were his favorite. Fragrance helped him sleep.” Is this missing a “the” before “fragrance”?
Page 24- Debbie: “Walking in on my big sister 'doing it' with her boyfriend. Ewwwww!” Something about this sounds a little bit immature... like, I’m not sure it’s something an 18 year old prom queen would say?
Page 36- Dave is this computer hacker all of a sudden?
Page 37- Dave: “Fine. Tell her to find the killer!” How did he know Detective Trexler’s gender?
Page 42- “For the first time in a long time, Dave feels good about himself - even a little proud!” Can this be shown visually?
Page 43- I’ve never been a fan of dual dialogue... I always thought that it looks really awkward on the page. Know that quite a few other readers dislike it as well...
Page 65- I was really confused with POV through his cellphone part?
Page 80- Wasn’t a fan of Dave’s dialogue which starts: “All this time... I thought she hated me!”
But yeah, I hope this review doesn't come across as negative, because despite the flaws, this script was a very decent read nonetheless.
The concept is both original and brilliant. Plus it would be easy to shoot on a limited budget. What more could a producer want?!
I'm excited to see what route you go down with the rewrite!
Feel free to send the next draft over as well, as I'd love to read that.
Might have to give The Place Beyond the Pines a second viewing and watch it right through to the end this time! Lol.
Yeah, you definitely need to re-watch it all the way through! It's easily my favourite film of the year so far. I enjoyed it so much that I went back alone and re-watched it two days after initially seeing it. Can't remember the last time I did that!
"I absolutely loved the opening scene as well. You opened the script off with a bang, which really made me sit up and take note."
That's great to hear!
"I also loved the midpoint shift, with Dave becoming the suspect. However, I felt that he was let off the hook far too easily here. I thought that this could have made for some really great tension and could have also upped the stakes; he needs to find out who the killer is, so that he can let himself off the hook."
Yeah - I can see what you're saying. And I have thought of doing this. But I'm not sure if Dave being attacked by Evelyn's ghost would still make sense - If he still believed himself to be the killer. (and I really want to keep the Evelyn scene.)
"I also had an issue with Linda. She's represented throughout as being a b**** and then suddenly Dave realizes she loves him... that didn't work for me. That relationship needed more fleshing out."
Agreed! In the new draft Linda is seriously mentally disturbed and Dave finds himself in great danger. Also, there is no 'kiss and make up' scene between them at the end.
"I think it would be cool if you string us along, so that we think he is dead, but then flip the reveal on its head, by revealing that he's alive."
Dave is definitely not dead in the newest draft!
Overall, some really positive feedback and some good points made!
Thanks Don for posting this latest draft so quick!
Following the rewrite, Offline has a strong horror element to it and can probably best be described as a Contained Murder Mystery/Supernatural Horror rather than a straight up thriller.
I got some great feedback on the previous draft and tried to incorporate as much as I could in the latest draft. (only the comments/suggestions I agreed with though! ). To that end, I want to thank: Leegion, reaper, the goose, pale yellow and StevenClark for their kind words of encouragement!
Also, Jeff (Dreamscale) for his thoughts on the script's formatting and sparse page count (84 pages). Pleased to report that the latest draft has a much healthier page count of 97 pages! I also changed some of the slugs and tried to make my writing more descriptive as a direct result of Jeff's input! Though I'm sure he'll still hate my staccato style! Lol.
Thanks also to spesh2k, the script has a much darker tone as a result of your excellent feedback!
Last but by no means least, Toby _E for reading both drafts and giving me some excellent notes and feedback!
Thanks for your input! Much appreciated! I've made one or two minor changes as a result. Feel free to post your excellent notes. I'm particularly interested to see if folks agree with you on the ending?
Finished the read on Offline (which, BTW, was a breeze.) Some scripts can be tough to get through. Dozing off, mind wandering, etc. None of that here.
So - here are my thoughts, with all of the good stuff upfront (and there is a lot of it, I promise you.)
*Spoilers*
Overview: I think you have a lot of good stuff here, with lots of potential. Talk about a majorly contained script. It’s almost 100% in Dave’s bedroom. Though the truck could take a little $$ to do. Like I mentioned in our emails earlier, if someone does pick this up, be EXTRA careful to make sure they can actually pull this off. Another thing? This is so, so Dave centric, that you’d have to be SURE to get an awesome actor for your protag. If he sucks even slightly, the whole film would quickly go to hell.
The great thing about this script is that not only is it a breeze to read, I was NEVER bored. Things kept happening, which is terrific. Got plenty of suspenseful, spooky moments in here, despite the limited location. Stylistically, it was a very clean read. I do think that the descriptions could be pared down even a *tiny* bit more. And I personally do feel that you overdid the staccato sentences. I do that, too a lot. But string more of ‘em together with commas and “ands”. It’ll improve the flow, IMHO. Also – I could be wrong on this, but you often capitalize the first letter after a dash within the same sentence. I think that’s a no-no. I always keep it lowercase. Oh – and there are a few teeny tiny orphans – though not so many as to be distracting. But always best to kill ‘em all. Readers often nitpick.
The bad part: You had me gripped through the whole damn thing… until the reveal. I think it could still work to have Trexler as the killer… But you have to set it up with more clues (and more supernatural hints about both her and Dark Eyes) throughout the script. Offhand, I’m not certain exactly how. But my gut tells me that it can be done…and relatively simply at that. Fix that – and you’ve got a very easy script sale on your hands. Just…as it is now...her craziness (and dabbling in Satanism background) comes off as goofy and out of nowhere. If you can establish it more – earlier –and/or make her a demon herself perhaps, that might work…something to ground it in more “reality” (though still supernatural) that won’t strike readers as “too much.”
All that said, here are a few minor line items that I felt needed tweaking or thought were particularly good:
p. 2 CAP shadowy figure
p. 4 – enough Star Wars figures to start a rebellion. Nice!
p. 5 – Find someway to identify Linda as Dave’s stepmom early, via dialog. You do so via description, but that doesn’t help the film audience. Also, I’d suggest throwing in some sort of hint that Linda blames Dave for the death of his Dad…even if you don’t go into detail about it.
p. 8 TurnS his head
p. 33 – Now we can both be in pain. Nice!
p. 36 – Introduce Trexler as female off the bat. It got me kind of confused there, for a few seconds.
p. 37 – Trexler almost cries when mentioning her mother? She’s a cop (or at least pretending to be). That strikes me as unrealistic. And does the sexiness with the Jack Sparrow poster. Although that one, I can forgive if played right. I also feel that Trexler and Dave need more “official banter” (cop style) back and forth before they get down to the real discussion. They jump into the meat of it way too quick.
p. 42 Dave’S spine
p 45 Every girl loves shoes? BLEH!!! (Says this girl.) The line’s fine, though. I just reacted to it.
p. 48 – Thought maybe you could text me, seeing how we can’t talk to each other. NICE!
p. 52 – Fondlejoy. Cool…
p. 67 – You look like you’ve seen a Gho – Nice.
p. 67 – Believing in me. (Also nice)
p. 69 – Why does Dave suddenly think that everything’s all over and okay? Just because he blew off Debbie the night before? There’s still the problem of the killer, etc…! Also – I kind of think that it would be even more effective if Dave purposely instigates a fight with Debbie to scare her away. A little cliché, but more dramatic. Just saying “I can’t do this anymore” isn’t as striking.
p. 70 – When he finds the maggots, wouldn’t THAT be the point that Dave says screw it, I’m calling the cops on Linda? That could work really well, IMHO…ie: he’s about to call…and THEN spots the van.
p. 75 - Too many “winces” on this page
p. 77 – Would Dave SERIOUSLY attempt to amputate the leg, knowing he’ll bleed to death…versus continue to simply find a way out of the house?
p. 94 – the Tournequet works loose
p. 84 They said you were smart. I like the repeating theme, but at this point I feel it got used one too many times…!
p. 86 – I find myself unclear on this point. Is Trexler an actual crazy cop? Or just a crazy cop imposter…. ‘cause a real cop this nuts would’ve been screened out by now (as she does mention re: the psyche test.)
p. 78 – The polygraph line. Really nice.
And…that’s about it. My only major sticking point is the Trexler reveal and backstory coming out of nowhere. I think you need to find something more subtle, or integrate it more thoroughly earlier on. I like who Dark Eyes is, etc. It’s just that one bit. And – as I mentioned earlier, I was LOVING this 95% of the way through. So kudos on that.
Hope this helps? Let me know if you have any questions, too…I’m happy to elaborate.
Firstly, great to hear Phil is getting back to his old self!
Lots and lots of positives to take from your review:
"The great thing about this script is that not only is it a breeze to read, I was NEVER bored. Things kept happening, which is terrific."
Given that this is a contained script with only a handful of characters - That's great to hear!
"Got plenty of suspenseful, spooky moments in here, despite the limited location.
This latest draft added a strong horror element - Delighted it seems to have paid off!
"You had me gripped through the whole damn thing… until the reveal. I think it could still work to have Trexler as the killer… But you have to set it up with more clues (and more supernatural hints about both her and Dark Eyes) throughout the script."
Hmm... I'll have to give this some more thought. I kinda thought that Mei being able to speak to the dead, along with all the creepy, weird, supernatural stuff happening in Dave's room more than hinted/set it up - Particularly once we discover that Mei and Trexler are one and the same?!
Certainly worth considering. Would be interesting to see other folks take on it?
Overall, I'm delighted with your notes! Definitely makes me believe Offline has something to offer and the script is heading in the right direction.
Take care
Gary (Rolo)
P.S. I really need to learn how to use the quote button!
Feel free to post your excellent notes. I'm particularly interested to see if folks agree with you on the ending?
Hey man,
Managed to find the notes I emailed you over, so here they are
NOTE: As I have already read the previous version of this, I won’t bother repeating myself saying what I liked from the stuff which is the same in this draft, so I’m just going to focus on the new things that I liked and didn’t like. But just because I didn’t say I enjoyed certain aspects this time around doesn’t mean that I didn’t... quite the contrary, as I really enjoyed re-reading this script!
Firstly, congratulations on getting a rewrite finished. I’ve still got one of my features sitting on my desktop, next to the document containing the suggestions needed for the rewrite, but I just can’t bring myself to dedicate the hours to rewriting it for the fourth time, thus removing all the stuff that I spent hours during the previous rewrites adding! But you have managed to rewrite this considerably, whilst maintaining what it is which initially drew me to the tale.
Now, despite horror not being my favourite genre – I have nothing against horror films, in fact, there are a few that I love, it’s just that it seems to be the genre which lends itself most to cookie-cut formulas and uninspired films – I was really digging the route you took with this (the only part I didn’t like was the final showdown, as I felt that it drifted too much towards the supernatural element, but that’s just me... others may like that). There was some genuinely creepy, horrifying moments (the rat gnawing at the leg... WTF?!), which would look brilliant on screen. You created the atmosphere perfectly, and most importantly, the atmosphere which you created enhanced the story that you were telling. I also felt that the dynamic between Linda and Dave worked a lot better this time around... because they actually interacted more! It wasn’t simply Linda talking to a non-responsive, dead Dave.
Now, my main issue that I had with the script was with Trexler as a character. Now whilst I didn’t feel that her involvement in the killings came from leftfield as much as in the previous version of the script (but then again, this much just have been because I was still expecting her to be the killer...?), I would still recommend telegraphing this slightly more. I have an idea how you could do this, which I’ll get onto in a second. But the main issue I had with Trexler’s character was her motivations. Ok, as Trexler, her motivations are clear, to a certain degree... I mean, she is after Dave’s phone to get the video he recorded of her murdering Debbie to remove all the evidence against her... but this is on the second visit. What is her purpose for visiting Dave the first time? She doesn’t seem to be too interested with his phone or what he remembers about the night he nearly died during this visit. So maybe during this visit, Trexler can ask Dave about the night he nearly died, about what he remembers, etc. To which he can be curious as to why she is asking all of this information, because she isn’t the detective who interviewed him initially, etc. I just feel that this could then set up the final reveal slightly better, because before it is revealed, there isn’t too much reason for us to suspect Trexler as the killer. But if you show us something is a little bit off with her, but then cover this with something else which suggests that she is a good, detected detective and then suggest that someone else may be the killer (maybe throw in one or two red herrings which suggest that Linda did the killing? Maybe she has a few left feet of certain shoes, etc.), despite the audience not suspecting that it is Trexler who is the killer, it won’t come as such a shock when it is revealed, but this scenario was set up.
So whilst I did have a few issues with Trexler’s motivations when she was herself, my biggest issues were with Mei, as I couldn’t work out for the life of me what she was trying to achieve by making Dave talk to Debbie? In the original version, I remember Trexler saying that she wanted to find out if Debbie knew who her killer was, but this motivation was removed this time around. But regardless, even if this is the reason that she continues to make Dave talk to Debbie, I can’t really see what she is trying to gain? I mean, Debbie is dead, after all. But because she doesn’t realise that she is dead, I’m guessing that she must have no idea who killed her. And even if she did, the only person she would be able to tell about who killed her would be Dave, who it is likely will someday remember what he was doing before he nearly died and, therefore, will someday be able to identify the killer regardless. So Trexler would be able to remove both her problems by just taking Dave out? I feel that it would have worked better if Mei is helping Dave deliver Debbie to the otherside, so that Debbie won’t then be able to communicate with anyone anymore, thus removing the threat of her revealing who killed her.
But regardless, I felt that Mei definitely needed a stronger motivation for whatever it is she is trying to achieve here.
Below are some page-by-page notes I made whilst reading:
Great opening. Really unsettling and freaky, with a load of ‘what-the-hell’ kind of mystery thrown in as well. Great work. My guess is that Debbie going to be either the girl in the tunnel or the van?
Page 6- Linda: “Nothing but old pictures and bad memories. You need to move on. Quit living in the past.” Is there any way that you could make this line a little less on-the-nose? Because at the moment, it comes across too unsubtle, almost like you’re bashing us over the head with the theme.
Page 13- If Dave has amnesia, how can he remember the stuff from his near death experience/ time in limbo?
Page 14- Great scene with Linda in his bedroom.
Page 18- Dave: “When my Dad passed. She lost it big time. Ended up in the loony bin.” I’d maybe have Debbie have to extract this info from him a bit harder, because it read a bit too false, given the exposition overload, at the minute. Maybe after Debbie says “huh?” Dave can stall, try to not give an answer, but she finally manages to get it out of him?
Page 22- I don’t think the flashback is necessary again here, because you’ve already had it a few pages back, when Dave was looking at the tattoos online, so the audience ought to remember that the girl in the tunnel had this. I would personally have the flashback on either or page, as both felt a little overkill.
Page 24- “Dave grimaces. Knows it’s his fault Debbie’s not at peace.” I’d maybe have him tell Mei something along those lines, because I don’t know how explicit this will come across on-screen, without this description?
Page 29- Yes @ the Sixth Sense part! Great red herring, my man!
Page 34- Mystic Mary’s dialogue needs to be a V.O. Or actually, this scene looks like an intercut? Either way, you need to let us know that Mary’s dialogue is over the phone, or the two scenes are playing as an intercut, because at the minute, her dialogue is being delivered by someone in the same room as Dave.
But Jesus, that was an intense scene, regardless.
Page 41- Linda: “Killing your Father wasn't enough.” ‘Father’ doesn’t need to be capitalised here, as it can’t be replaced with a name, ie, you wouldn’t say “killing your James” (it would only need to be capitalised in cases like ‘hi, Father’, as here, father could be replaced with a name).
Page 42- “The puss stops. Turns its head - Sees Dave for the first time” Needs a full stop.
Pager 43- Does Dave slam the laptop shut because he remembers the Mystery Man? (If so, what about his amnesia?) Or does he slam it shut because the guy is creepy? Regardless, I’d like a little bit of clarification.
Also, the scene with him adding friends on facebook seemed a little bit jarring, as I don’t see how this is related to the whole business with Debbie? This seemed more like the pre-Debbie Dave, something he would do before he found her and was trying to help Mei. I mean, sure, she’s a ghost and all, but I don’t see why he’s suddenly wanting to find facebook ‘friends’ after the appearance of the Mystery Man?
Page 53- Should the voices be VO?
Page 70- I think the scene with the guy peering up from the pavement would be a lot more creepy if it was at night?
Page 76- Dave doesn’t seem to react too much to Linda coming alive again?
Page 77- Jesus @ the amputating limb scene. That shit is intense. Only thing I would say is that it is a little reminiscent of Saw.
Page 79- Mei: “Dave, listen to me. You mustn’t panic... Back-up on way” Full stop is needed, man.
Page 83- I’d consider cutting this, as it read a little theatrical: “Draws the knife across her throat in a threatening manner.” Just have her turn and scowl at Dave, then him run for his life.
Page 84- Is Trexler actually a detective? Because I’m pretty certain that they don’t let people with mental health problems into the police force to do active duty (one of my friends was rejected during the vetting phase for that very reason), and I’d think that police forces where their officers are armed would be especially reluctant to hire anyone with a history of what appears to be schizophrenia, given the irrational, violent tendencies often related with the disorder. And you could argue that she no longer suffers from the disorder, but from the CBT modules I took as part of the counselling sub-part of my degree, schizophrenia is the hardest mental disorder to treat, with very high rates of remission, and patients rarely being completely cured of the disorder (instead learning to live and function with the disorder). But then again, she might have fabricated the whole thing about being a policewoman.
Page 85- At first, I thought it was going to be Linda who hurt Trexler with the high heels... which could have actually been an interesting angle.
Page 88- “Dave glares - Looks like he want to rip her heart out.” ‘Want’ should be ‘wantS’.
Conclusion Overall, I really enjoyed this script. I liked it the first time around, but I felt that the horror aspect that you put in during this rewrite worked so well, that it enhanced every aspect of the story. Only thing I would maybe consider would be toning down the final showdown slightly, as I did think it was a bit too extreme and supernatural compared to the other aspects of the script. I would also focus making Trexler’s motivations slightly clearer. Do this, and you will have a very solid little script on your hands. But great stuff with the rewrite, regardless.
Thanks for the great notes! Much appreciated! Sorry I didn't reply to them earlier - Been working on a rewrite of my latest script, a Zom-Com! I know. I know. "Not another zombie script?!" Happy to say this script really pushes the genre. Anyway enough of zombies. On to your notes on Offline!
"I really enjoyed re-reading this script!"
Thanks, man. The fact that you've read both drafts and gave good notes on each, is truly appreciated!
"There was some genuinely creepy, horrifying moments (the rat gnawing at the leg... WTF?!), which would look brilliant on screen. You created the atmosphere perfectly, and most importantly, the atmosphere which you created enhanced the story that you were telling."
I was a little nervous about making Offline more of a horror. However, the response I have got from folks such as your good self, suggest it was well worth doing! As for the rat - I hate rats! They give me the creeps. The scene with the rat gnawing on Dave's leg is pretty horrific imo!
"Page 18- Dave: “When my Dad passed. She lost it big time. Ended up in the loony bin.” I’d maybe have Debbie have to extract this info from him a bit harder, because it read a bit too false, given the exposition overload, at the minute. Maybe after Debbie says “huh?” Dave can stall, try to not give an answer, but she finally manages to get it out of him?"
Great suggestion! I took your advice. And changed it!
"Page 22- I don’t think the flashback is necessary again here, because you’ve already had it a few pages back, when Dave was looking at the tattoos online, so the audience ought to remember that the girl in the tunnel had this. I would personally have the flashback on either or page, as both felt a little overkill."
Good point. I removed the second flashback!
"Also, the scene with him adding friends on facebook seemed a little bit jarring, as I don’t see how this is related to the whole business with Debbie? This seemed more like the pre-Debbie Dave, something he would do before he found her and was trying to help Mei. I mean, sure, she’s a ghost and all, but I don’t see why he’s suddenly wanting to find facebook ‘friends’ after the appearance of the Mystery Man?"
See what you're saying here. Makes sense. Happy to say I removed that scene too!
"Page 76- Dave doesn’t seem to react too much to Linda coming alive again?"
Changed it so there's more of a reaction from Dave!
I also changed quite a few other things as a result of your excellent notes. Particularly, with regard to Trexler and Mei and her actual motivation for doing what she does - So hopefully, it's a little clearer in this draft?
"Conclusion Overall, I really enjoyed this script. I liked it the first time around, but I felt that the horror aspect that you put in during this rewrite worked so well, that it enhanced every aspect of the story. Only thing I would maybe consider would be toning down the final showdown slightly, as I did think it was a bit too extreme and supernatural compared to the other aspects of the script."
Delighted that you enjoyed Offline. It's especially gratifying that you feel that the horror aspect enhances every aspect of the story!
I see what you're saying about toning down the final showdown. However, I wanted to end the story with a bang and cranked up the stakes and action accordingly. Would be interesting to hear what other folks think of the ending?
Toby, thanks for the time and effort you've spent on this! I truly appreciate it!
Note: Contains SPOILERS for Offline and the movie Prisoners.
I like this new draft, but I don't like it as much as the previous one. I know I had nothing but positive things to say about Offline when I first read it but this second go around wasn't the same. I like it, though -- don't get me wrong at all. There are just a couple of things that are off for me, like, for instance, how Dave has no problem at all digging up what he needs to know. All he has to do is "Google it" and bam! He finds the answer that he needs. It all just seems too easy and convenient and after a while, I even started to roll my eyes when he would resort to the lap top. There's no challenge here! Everything is being handed to him. Boring.
I'm not digging the thriller/horror element this time around, either. It's too strong. It's ruining the story. I think I would like this better if Offline took a more realistic approach. And while I know Dave and Debbie are ghosts, I can deal with this. Leave it at just that. Get rid of all the demonic voices and crazy shit going on, Omni porbas crap or whatever it is. haha. Think Stir of Echoes. That's a great movie involving a ghost trying to get justice for her senseless death, and it doesn't get too stupid or hokey. Better than the Sixth Sense. Check it out.
Also, I think you need to ax Trexler's lame exposition filled rant and do something about your ending. All too often there is a really good script or movie -- take Prisoners, for example -- that has you guessing on the edge of your seat and then when you finally come to find out who's the kidnapper/the killer, it's just a "what the fuck, this is it?" moment. When the old lady/mother was revealed -- and she starts talking about why she did it -- it kinda ruined the movie just a bit. It was too Hollywood. Although I will give them credit for not having a total Hollywood ending, which sort of makes up for the lame reveal of the kidnapper.
Levy - Thanks for giving this latest draft a read. Gotta say, it's a little disappointing that you weren't as enthusiastic this time around.
That said, you make some interesting points. Not sure I entirely agree with you about everything being handed to him via his laptop. I think there are a few red herrings amongst the information he uncovers. Though, I guess I can see where you're coming from.
Will definitely take a look at "Trexler's lame exposition rant" at the end - see if I can improve upon it somehow. One of the curses of this type of murder mystery is the exposition filled rant at the end. Like you said, Prisoners has it. The Bone Collector has a similar WTF? rant also. Generally, readers/viewers expect an explanation for why the killer did what he/she did - so coming up with a clever way of giving them what they want is probably my biggest challenge going forward.
Oh, one other thing, Dave isn't actually dead in this draft! It's set up to make you think he is - but he's not!
Levy - Forgot to mention that I've seen Stir of Echoes. I agree it's a great movie. It's been a good few years since I've seen it. Though if memory serves me right, there was a mini rant towards the end from one of the killer's parents explaining why they did what they did and the choices they made?
Something along the lines of "They were only kids - they had their whole lives ahead of them. She was already dead. There was nothing we could do for her so we..." Or did I just make that up?! LOl. Like I said it's been years since I've seen it, so I can't remember what he said word for word.
For me the biggest problem I had with that movie, was the rape and subsequent murder of the girl. The ring leader was a star athlete who looked to have a golden future ahead of him. Would he really throw all that away just to make out with a nerdy girl? When I was in School the jocks got all the girls - even the 'hot' ones!!
Getting back to Offline - I think the reader/viewer needs to know WHY the killer does what he/she does. Without an explanation, I think it would ultimately be unsatisfying. I just need to work on it some more I guess.
Not sure if you've seen ATM? It's an okay movie - though the ending is a little contrived imo. Anyway, my point is, we watch this mysterious stranger murder everyone in the ATM - one by one. But we never get to find out WHY? For me, that was very unsatisfying on an emotional level. What was the point of the story?
If only the guy had spilled his guts on why he did what he did at the end!! LOL.
Hope all is well. Started skimming this new version , before I knew it I'm on pg 48. Goes back to what I said earlier: quickest read ever. So far so good. I don't remember much about your last draft, but any changes you've made seem to fit in seamlessly. I think, by the comments, you've added more horror? So far I think it's working.
And did you say Dave is not dead now? I think that was the story's strong point. Maybe I'm reading it wrong.
However, one thing I really wanted to touch on--not sure if anyone else had, was the appearance of the Luna Moth. Googled it--haha. Spiritually, so they say, it signifies transformation, the seeking of truth, and is attracted to the moon for its light. Excellent inclusion, Gary. It fits in great with your story, even though its a bit Silence of The Lambsy. Maybe you make it clearer later on, but I don't think the moth will translate well to screen in terms of the audience "getting it." Perhaps you make that part clearer later on, but for now it just seems like a clever story device that only the reader will understand...if he googles it.
Thanks for cracking this latest draft open and taking a look! I'm delighted that you think the changes I've made fit in seamlessly! As you noticed from the comments, there's a much stronger horror element in this draft.
To be honest, with the exception of Levy, everyone who has read both drafts, prefers this one. That's not to say Levy's wrong. We all have different tastes and I respect that.
Very perceptive of you to uncover the significance of the Luna Moth and how it relates to the story. And you're right, it won't translate to the screen well, if at all. I just included it to enrich the read somewhat. Even without 'googling' it, I was hoping that the reader would pick up on how Luna Moth ties in with the murders taking place during a full moon and the killer's media nickname "Lunar Loony" etc.
Really hope you get to finish it - would welcome your thoughts!
Not sure if you've seen ATM? It's an okay movie - though the ending is a little contrived imo. Anyway, my point is, we watch this mysterious stranger murder everyone in the ATM - one by one. But we never get to find out WHY? For me, that was very unsatisfying on an emotional level. What was the point of the story?
If only the guy had spilled his guts on why he did what he did at the end!! LOL.
Rolo
Why?? There's no explanation as to why Michael Myers stalks and kills babysitters in Halloween... and that movie is a classic!
But in my opinion, murder mysteries - which this script essentially is - is completely different to slashers. When the main question posed by a screenplay/film is "who committed the murder/crime", then we need a solid motivation behind the revelation, as to make it feel organic to the story, as opposed to a complete "WTF?!" moment.
SPOILERS
This is where I felt Prisioners failed; not because of the exposition to try and identify the killer's/ kidnapper's motivations, but because the explanation sucked.
However, in slashers, the audience cares more about the kills and the outcome of the protagonist under threat.
First off, just want to say that I've got a lot of respect for you. I was absolutely delighted that you liked the previous draft as much as you did and even went so far as to recommend it to others! I know you've got a keen eye for a good script and I guess that's why I was a little disappointed that you weren't as keen on this latest draft!
Anyway, as regards:
"Why?? There's no explanation as to why Michael Myers stalks and kills babysitters in Halloween... and that movie is a classic!"
My comment about the killer spilling his guts in ATM was said tongue in cheek.
Also, it's years since I've seen Halloween. But I think we got a good sense of exactly who Michael Myers was from the Donald Pleasence character. He kept telling anyone who'd listen, just how evil Michael was etc. Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the babysitter (Jamie Lee Curtis) related to Michael? Hadn't he killed all his family and she was his sole surviving relative or something? So, in other words, he had a motive for doing what he did, however twisted? Though, like I said, it's years since I've seen it, so some of what I said, might be wrong?
I've more or less outgrown slasher films. However, the ones I enjoyed the most when I were younger, the killer always had a motive (usually revenge) of some sort for doing what he did. Films like 'A Nightmare on Elm Street' and 'Friday the 13th.' Hence, the reason why ATM felt so flat for me. The guy killed random strangers for no apparent reason or motive?
As regards Offline and the demonic voices. I imagine demonic voices would read pretty flat on the page in most scripts - but would transfer to the screen quite well? I remember the original 'Evil Dead' had them and they were pretty creepy at the time. And not to be a smart ass or anything, but the film you mentioned 'Stir of Echoes' also made use of a demonic voice. The protagonist's son speaks in one - then speaks normally and can't remember what he said whilst speaking in the demonic voice.
@ Toby
"But in my opinion, murder mysteries - which this script essentially is - is completely different to slashers. When the main question posed by a screenplay/film is "who committed the murder/crime", then we need a solid motivation behind the revelation, as to make it feel organic to the story, as opposed to a complete "WTF?!" moment.
Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the babysitter (Jamie Lee Curtis) related to Michael? Hadn't he killed all his family and she was his sole surviving relative or something? So, in other words, he had a motive for doing what he did,
No, he had no motive until the sequel. That is when the stupid idea of the sister came into play.
As for Offline, don't feel bad. I still like it.
Not many people can write a decent script where the entire story takes place in a bedroom.
This'll might be short. Everyone here's waking up.
So take me back. How did Dave come in contact with Mei in the first place? Newspaper ad, Internet? Cause what I'm thinking is that if Trexler is Mei, then how would Trexler have been so sneaky enough as to have a fake advertisement posted knowing that Dave would call seeking out the services of a medium? Make sense?
Ok. Trexler still feels like a man to me! Ha. Even without the Popeye arms description. I guess it's something about her dialogue perhaps. She just doesn't feel feminine. But then I think that's what you were going for anyway. It's a slight nitpick of mine.
You definitely ramped up the horror at the end. Did Linda die in the last draft? I don't remember, but I'm not sure how I feel about her death now. I would have kinda liked to see her live, I think.
Also, I think that Dave being alive now you might have to change some if the dialogue of his and Linda's interactions. I think you're trying to get the audience now to speculate whether Dave is dead or not, but I feel you might be over thinking your own story here. I don't know if people are gonna get that they think Dave is dead at first. Do you think they will? I didn't at first, and I think Linda's dialogue is so vague that it might leave peeps scratching their heads at first.
I'm talking about on the screen, of course.
Also, your inclusion of that crow appearing a Dave's window was pretty cool. From what I understand a bird symbolizes the arrival of news. I've used it before. Not sure if the crow has any other specific meaning.
Overall, it was good. The added horror didn't bother me that much. You Might have gone a little over the top with the rat gnawing on his leg and all, but if you feel cool with that then that's okay.
Personally, I think any changes you need to make have more to do with Dave being alive now. From that angle, I think you might need to tighten things up because you've changed the whole dynamic of your story with that one little change.
Oh, your ending. Almost forgot. I liked it. I liked how you handled all the reveals -- Mei, the fact that adage is alive although Trexler tried to get him to think otherwise. I thought the bed flying up in the air was a bit cheesy. Sorry. Otherwise, things were wrapped up pretty tight. Enjoyed the happy ending for Dave.
Thanks for cracking Offline open again and making it to the end. Much appreciated!
"So take me back. How did Dave come in contact with Mei in the first place? Newspaper ad, Internet? Cause what I'm thinking is that if Trexler is Mei, then how would Trexler have been so sneaky enough as to have a fake advertisement posted knowing that Dave would call seeking out the services of a medium? Make sense?"
This is a good question. We learn later on that Trexler/Mei has had the 'gift' since she was in her teens. This is how she earns her living. She advertises her services as a psychic on the net etc. Now, it may appear a little contrived that Dave contacted her directly - but he tried a few other psychics first. And Trexler had been attempting to contact him anyway using her 'gift' so it all fell into place.
"Ok. Trexler still feels like a man to me! Ha. Even without the Popeye arms description."
Ha! Glad you noticed I lost the Popeye arms in this draft - see, I do listen to you guys!
"Also, I think that Dave being alive now you might have to change some if the dialogue of his and Linda's interactions. I think you're trying to get the audience now to speculate whether Dave is dead or not, but I feel you might be over thinking your own story here. I don't know if people are gonna get that they think Dave is dead at first. Do you think they will? I didn't at first, and I think Linda's dialogue is so vague that it might leave peeps scratching their heads at first."
Again, some good points here. As regards, "Linda's dialogue being so vague," it was a deliberate choice to highlight that she is mentally unstable - hence why her behaviour towards Dave is so O.T.T.
"Also, your inclusion of that crow appearing a Dave's window was pretty cool. From what I understand a bird symbolizes the arrival of news. I've used it before. Not sure if the crow has any other specific meaning."
Crows are also associated with death. Every time we see 'Dark Eyes' we see a crow(s) - he is a sort of good guy Grim Reaper who collects evil souls such as Trexler's and sends them straight to hell.
"Personally, I think any changes you need to make have more to do with Dave being alive now. From that angle, I think you might need to tighten things up because you've changed the whole dynamic of your story with that one little change."
Some folks said that they knew Dave was dead in the earlier draft and likened the ending to: 'The Sixth Sense.'
So I took a stab at writing a draft that made you think he was dead and even Dave believes himself to be dead at one stage! Interestingly enough, a Produce contacted me last week and is interested in the earlier draft - he read it like six months ago! Anyway, I've asked him to read this latest draft before we move forward on it. I'm happy to go with whichever version he prefers!
Last, but by no means least, belated congratulations on your new arrivals! I was busy writing and sort of missed the boat on that one!
Apologies for the slow response. I've been MIA working on a rewrite of my latest script.
"Very surprised to see this reviewed on Script Shadow."
Me too. I got a rather curt email from Carson that simply said: "I'm reviewing this tomorrow" No "hi" or "Dear Gary" or "good luck" or anything...
Though that's not surprising really, I'd been a bit critical about his recent lack of newsletters in the comments section and had suggested that he had "taken his eye off the ball" lately.
"I think Carson had some problems that I had, with all the demon stuff."
Yeah - maybe with hindsight the demon stuff was a mistake. Nothing happened with the original draft so I gave it a substantial rewrite hoping it would fly but unfortunately it sank like a lead balloon! Lol.
I think overall Carson's review was quite fair. That said, part of me thinks he went into Offline not wanting to like it because I obviously pissed him off. And here's a brief example of why I think that:
"Once we hit the stereotypical inadvertently funny Asian psychic, that’s when I officially knew this story wasn’t going to work for me. Mei Li giving David advice in her funny Chinese accent just made this script too goofy."
Anyone who has read Offline from start to finish knows there never was an Asian psychic! She was a creation of the real killer, hence the funny Chinese accent. She merely served as a huge red herring!
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