Thanks Bert,

To tell you the truth I'm just really fucking excited, but you're right. No point in selling myself short.

Quoted from JackS To tell you the truth I'm just really fucking excited...

Nothing to be ashamed of there, either  

Re write is up. Took a u turn at the script exchange board 'cause I'm classy like that. I'd like to trade with anyone, you'll get page for page notes since mine is still long (although shorter than before).

http://www.google.com/url?q=ht.....VNzffKOKo5kZzeXCM4CA

Nobody wants to trade swift kicks to the nuts/bollocks? I swear it'll be constructive!

Jack I gave Page 1 a look and had to pull out quite quickly, as this thing is so overwritten...on literally every single line, and at 128 pages, I know it will continue this way.

It's quite obvious you're a good writer...maybe a very good writer, even, and you have a nice command of interesting, flowery description and words as well.  If this were a novel, I'd be very impressed...but, it's not a novel, and that's where the problems come in.

Not only are you just flatout overwriting, you're also overdescribing, and by that, I mean giving details of things that you shouldn't...things that don't come into play and simply aren't necessary.

In the same breath, I'd also say that you have a way of letting your words and descriptions get away from you and although very detailed, some don't make complete sense as written...or are unclear.

Listen, I'm all for strong visual writing as well as strong technical writing, but there's a fine line and in this case, there's also a not so fine line.  You've crossed both of them, sorry to say.

For me the dialogue that I read didn't ring true or sound realistic.  Remember that every single time you use a name or anything that can be used as a name in dialogue, it has to be set off with a comma(s).

Also remember that every passage should contain only 1 shot, thought, or description.  Break them up properly and the read gets much easier.

I read the feedback and although I agree for the most part with what everyone said (as you can see from my comments), I don't agree in dumbing everything down as some said.  Find your voice and keep it, but make sure you're not going overboard in your writing.

Hope this helps.

Dreamscale,

Thank you for your reply. I'm not gonna lie to you. I’ve been writing screenplays for about seven years now and only within the past three have I cut my teeth with the craft. I flipped through Sid way back and just went for it. I didn't show the screenplays to anybody, didn't ask for legitimate help, I just pressed print, rented a Panasonic dvx and the stream of consciousness followed. Those were the best days of my life, and I'm glad I got it out of my system enough to really hunker down and wake up to the fact that I couldn't write a fucking story. Cassavettes could pull it off but he's a genius. White Hot Winter started as Riley and Angus, then Codeine, then Red House, then I finally pulled it all together enough to where I could say "this is ready to be critiqued." In a way, I evolved as the screenplay did.

This isn't my baby, this is a bad relationship that I tried to keep afloat. This is a dead shark. I just wanted to trade my dead shark with someone else’s and build a fruitful networking relationship in the process. I know all of what I'm saying isn't the point of the discussion board, and I did take your notes to heart, but the script trade board isn't used enough for writers to get anything out of it. Actually the last post said to just trade stuff here.

You say I might be a good writer or a very good writer, that doesn't really mean much to me. That's not why I write, I write because I have to. That isn't supposed to sound romantic at all. Actually if it were up to me I'd bury this curse and get better at cooking, but it's the worst case of poison ivy known to man.

With that being said, the first page has focus. "Dew sodden crabgrass" was supposed to illustrate the fact that it was cold, "letterman jacket powder kegs his stature" means Sanford's a big man and he's ready to blow, and then his head really does blow up. Every description can actually translate to film, setting aside some of the character description but I thought you could still get a free pass with that.  "The Night ranger's campaign hat towers over the little town like a felt mountain" could've been written: WIDE ANGLE SHOT: The Night ranger peers at the county in the distance, from where he's standing it looks as though his campaign hat towers over it. As in the camera is behind him/cu his head takes up most of the frame with the county in the distance and the way the shot is constructed gives the illusion of his hat enveloping the town. I could write in camera cues but then it would look like a rookie mistake.

I don't want you to think that I'm all butt hurt and reactionary because I'm not. I swear. I've learned that you have to be a punching bag that cannot break, and I always, always always always love to get notes.

I will trim the description but the story will still be the same. I guess I just wanted to clarify that this ain't my first rodeo. I read at least a script a day and I've read every how to book under the sun.

You read a page and it turned you off, but I thought I was avoiding purple prose, I thought I was modestly shoving images into the readers brain, I thought I was walking the line. It was description that came naturally. I was really hoping for critiques on character and story and dialogue. Well you did mention something about the dialogue.

Within the context of the film, I think the dialogue does ring true on the first page. Two gay jocks in a small town sealing their love. Alluding to Sanford owing someone money. It's my inciting incident that ties all of the characters in white hot winter together, and it's not like some drawn out love confession, he proposes and gets his head blown off. It's a morality metaphor.  

Thank you, thank you, thank you for even giving me your time. Truth is, I've simply spent way too much energy trying to perfect this and I'm gonna have to come back to it. I was really hoping to see overarching problems that I can't even see anymore.

This post took forty five minutes to write. That's honesty.

Hope to talk soon.

Jack, I hear what you're saying, and I feel your pain.

In all honesty though, bro, you're just way overwriting.

I just read through Grady's LONG speech on Page 9, and nothing has changed...in fact, the overwriting has gotten worse.  Now, I'm seeing asides, 5 line passages, which are pretty much all charater description, and almost every action/description line contans at least 1 adverb or adjective.

Asides are a personal pet peeve of mine, but some like them and others don't give a shit.  BUT, you're laying them on thick early on and they're of the nature where some will take offense to them, especially when you use profanity, which IMO, has no place in a script, other than in dialogue.

Your passages are long due to the overdescribing, as well as the fact that you have multiple ideas/shots/descriptions in the passage.

And the biggest issue I can see so far is your constant use of adverbs and adjectives.  You'll find some peeps who'll say don't use them period.  I say use them sparingly and when they make a positive difference.  You can't seem not to use them, though.

Check out your action/description sentences and see how many have totally unnecessary adverbs and adjectives in them.  My bet is you'll find well over 50 in the first 10 pages alone.

You know 127 pages is too long, I think, right?  There's a glaring reason why it's so long and that's what I'm trying to help you with.  I understand you see each scene in great detail in your head and that's awesome...it really is.  The thing is though, that you have to find a way to write it so that it's visual, but not containing so much unnecessary info and description.

Colors only matter if you're going for some kind of theme, or to differentiate characters or vehicles.

Facial hair or even hair in general doesn't matter on bit players or characters that die within seconds of being intro'd.

Many, many other examples such as these all need attention here to get this down to a workable and readable length.  IMO, your opening 9 pages could and should easily be chopped down to no more than 7 and a half, probably 7 pages.  You do this for every 9/10 pages, you'll see your 127 page script shrink down to 100 - 105 pages, which is most likely where it should be.

And the beauty is that you don't have to lose a single thought or action - you just have to tone the detail way down...and you'll most likely have to cut some unnecessary dialogue, lose the irritating asides, and be a hawk when it comes to eliminating orphans and potential orphans.

If I were you, I would not give up on this, especially since you've put so much time into it.  Take my advice and just edit out the opening 9 pages and see what you're left with and read it next to this version and see what you think.  My bet is that you'll go forward and do it to the whole script and repost here with 108 pages and then peeps will find the read much easier to digest and you'll get the real feedback you're after.

Just trying to help, bro.  Hope it comes off that way.

Dreamscale,

I'm taking all of your advice to heart. I'm working on characters for my next screenplay so I need to focus on that right now. I plan on coming back to whw with your notes in mind.

Thanks again.