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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Scripts  ›  Saving Amy Ryan Moderators: bert
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Don
Posted: December 2nd, 2007, 6:29pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Saving Amy Ryan by Gary Murphy - Short - A father is forced into making an unthinkable decision in order to save his daughters life. 24 pages - pdf, format


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Murphy
Posted: December 2nd, 2007, 7:13pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for posting this Don.

This is my first ever script and the first creative writing i have done since 1987. I would appreciate any feedback however good or bad.

Thanks Murphy




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Murphy  -  December 2nd, 2007, 7:53pm
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bert
Posted: December 2nd, 2007, 8:54pm Report to Moderator
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Here is the low-down on this one for you, Murphy.  I liked the story.  I will give you that up front instead of making you wait for it.  But I've got some comments for you, too.

First off, formatting is fine.  You've been looking at the right books.

Let us start by jumping right into the big "we" debate, shall we?  Very early, you write, "...thousands of droplets hitting metal is the only sound we can hear."

Now, plenty of people will tell you never to use the word "we".  Not ever.  I say that, at the very least, you should use it sparingly.  Only when nothing else will do.

Here, it is not vital.  Just drop it.  "...thousands of droplets hitting metal is the only sound."  About 90% of the time, losing "we" is as simple as that.  Do it wherever you can.

Some small stuff:

*  The woman in the car would be WOMAN, as she is still a character, of sorts.  And calling her WOMAN still preserves your surprise a bit later.
*  Why is an eight-year-old girl watching news?  Why not cartoons or something?  Especially since you do not really use the news broadcast later for much.  I think you are doing something with it, but it is really too subtle to register.
*  A small grammar thing, many times you have "i" instead of "I".  Watch out for those.
*  Introduce grandma as JOAN when we first see her.  There was a moment of confusion when I thought Joan was somebody else.
*  At the bottom of page 8, you go right from a slugline into dialogue, with no descriptive passage.  This is a no-no, albeit a small one.
*  Vincent tells David to wait outside, but in the next scene, he is sitting next to Vincent.
*  Dialogue snafu for Vincent at the bottom of page 11; he says "happen to" twice in a row.

And broader now, looking at the story as a whole:

The story kept me engaged, particularly near the end.  Some fine drama takes place in the parking lot, although this reader did suspect where we were going.

There are some bumps in the middle, though.  Vincent is a scumbag, sure, but Amy is a complete innocent in all this.  So is Jerry, for that matter.  If Vincent was so quick to kill the guy, why does he need someone else to kill the girl?  Vincent’s motive for wanting Kate gone is fine, but where is his motive for wanting Jerry to do it?

This story needs a little something for Jerry in the guilt department.  He must be more culpable, somehow, for what has gone before, and then what Vincent is doing makes a little more sense.

Or, alternatively, what if Kate is aware of what Vincent is doing, and she has gone into hiding, and Jerry is the only one who knows where Kate is?  This also draws Jerry into the story.  Thinking aloud now, and rambling a bit, what if Vincent just wants Jerry to tell him where Kate is.  He holds Amy to force this.  Then, upon learning the truth, Jerry says "let me do it."  Maybe to buy some time.  Or maybe he means it.  But later, in the car, he finds that he cannot.  Then what will become of Amy?  This forces Kate's actions to an even greater extent.

There are several things you can do to spice up this scenario, but I think it boils down to firming up the reasons for Vincent singling out Jerry.  That is what is keeping all the pieces from falling solidly into place, I think.

But all the building blocks are there, Murphy.  It is a solid first effort that you can be proud of.  Engaging in the right places, with a good pace.  Some of the dialogue could be punched up, with your characters saying more than they need to, particularly Vincent.  He would be more menacing if he spoke less.  Think about Dave.  He is a creepy dude, and how many lines does he have?

When reading scripts or watching films, pay attention to how much information can be packed into only one or two sentences of dialogue.  Characters seldom talk in long bursts, and what goes unsaid is often what is most important.  Less is often more.  Watch for it, and you will see it.  

And finally, about that title, and the name, Amy Ryan.  This title is much too similar to "Saving Private Ryan."  I am surprised you did not notice.  I would suggest you change their last name to anything but Ryan.  Or even "Saving Amy" and leave it at that.

Hope some of this helps you out.  Let me know if you have specific questions on any of these comments, or on issues I failed to address.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!

Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
bert  -  December 2nd, 2007, 9:08pm
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Murphy
Posted: December 2nd, 2007, 10:14pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for taking the time to read this Bert, I appreciate it.

You have not said anything I do not agree with, some of it I have even thought about over the last week or two when re-reading the script. I have picked up on most of the mistakes you mentioned, though never thought about the "we hear" and will change that, you are right in that it is not even needed. And yes I do seem to have a problem with i's and not I's! As i have said i have not really written anything for a long time and its strange having to think about punctuation again.

I am very guilty of being a little too eager to post this script I think, I was warned about this too (maybe even from you? I cannot remember) but the temptation is too great and I am very weak willed sometimes I have written another draft last week that tidies up the majority of my mistakes.

The same issues you have raised have bothered me too and i have been trying to decide whether i want to have another crack at this script and re-write it considerably. I think i am going to re-write it but do something a bit different, you are 100% correct that i need a reason for Vincent to pick Jerry to do this and have been trying a few scenarios in my mind but none of them yet seem plausible. The idea that Kate has gone into hiding is one i never thought of and am gonna toy with that idea in my head today, it has got legs anyway.  I am also thinking of dispensing with the warehouse scenes and have Vincent's men snatch Amy from home and set the Vincent - Jerry conversation there.

As for the title, i am ashamed i was aware of the likeness to "Saving Private Ryan" and actually named the script knowing this, no idea why just kind of liked the idea. I will think about that one, maybe see if anyone else mentions it.

Anyway, thank again for the read and feedback.

Murphy
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bert
Posted: December 2nd, 2007, 10:42pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Murphy
...never thought about the "we hear" and will change that, you are right in that it is not even needed.


It is actually "we see" that draws the most criticism.  That, and its evil twin, "the camera shows".  And I don't recall seeing that many of them anyway.  I would have said something if you used it a bunch.


Quoted from Murphy
I am very guilty of being a little too eager to post this script...


That is understandable, for sure.  But at least this reads like you proofed it.

There are plenty around here who don't even run a spell-check.  Then, call them on the myriad of typos, and they'll act like you are an idiot and say, "spelling doesn't matter."  Those guys drive me batty.


Quoted from Murphy
  I am also thinking of dispensing with the warehouse scenes and have Vincent's men snatch Amy from home and set the Vincent - Jerry conversation there.


Fewer locations is always good.  That is one reason I kept Gaskins to a minimum in "Farm" -- so everything would take place at that one locale.  If you go that route, I will be curious to see how you handle Joan.  Make her a fighter haha -- Vincent will really look like slime if he beats up an old lady.


Quoted from Murphy
As for the title...just kind of liked the idea.


The problem, I guess, is that it is kind of misleading.  It is so well-known, and I kept expecting some kind of tie-in or reference.  The whole time I was reading, I was thinking, "so, when does the WWII stuff come into play?"

And when it didn't, I was like, "Well, why did he call it that?"

I'll look at a new draft if you do one.  I am terrible about new drafts haha.  I am so eager to move on to new stuff it is more like work instead of play to revisit the old stuff.  But it is all part of the process.

Wait until you get some more feedback before doing too much, though.  See what some other folks have to say.

You have been reading enough I'll be surprised if this story doesn't get more looks before too long.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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sniper
Posted: December 3rd, 2007, 3:19pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Murphy,

I'm gonna break this review up into two sections; The story and The writing.

Let's start with the best part: The story.

I must admit I thought it was really really good. I did not see that twist coming at all, bravo. When you introduced Vincent I was like, Jeez...another hitman script! I kinda have a deep hatred for that genre (read my script "The Second Draft"). But the way you turned it around worked really well. Vincent wasn't just some bozo with a gun, he actually had a backstory - which was a pleasant surprise.

I thought you structured it really well. The flashback at the beginning set a nice tone for the remaining story, plus the whole family crisis. It all tied up nicely.

The only thing really I can think of that could use a tuneup would be the warehouse scene with Jerry and Vincent. It does run a bit on the long side and I would think, that a person in Jerry's position would be furious. I don't think you effectively manage to pull his feelings off.

Well, on to the writing. This needs work, Murphy. It did not suit an otherwise good story. First of all, lose the WE and US parts, save them for a future shooting script. Second, and this is the most important part in my book, the action is very inactive. You constantly use this hiddeous word: "is", like, is sitting, is standing, is talking etc. You have to lose those or use them very sparringly. Write around them. Jerry sits, Jerry stands, Jerry talks, Jerry walks, you know?

It can be quite difficult to pull off but it's worth it. It'll give the script a whole different pace and the action will almost read itself. I know you've read my script "Every Knee blah blah blah...", in it, I think I only use the word "is" once or twice through all 40 pages.

There are book out there about script writing techniques, my fav is "The Screenwriter's Bible". I suggest you have a look at one of those books. It can really help.

Oh, and i should always be CAPPED.

And I've gotta agree with Bert, the title needs work. you can do better than that.

Anyway, my two cents. All in all a solid piece.

Cheers
Rob


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tomson
Posted: December 3rd, 2007, 11:46pm Report to Moderator
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Murphy,

I only had time for a short script today so I thought I'd give you a return read.

I made some notes while I read this and then I read Bert's and Sniper's comments. Most of what my notes covered have already been covered by them, so it leaves me with not that much to add.

I think the main problem I had with this story is Vincent's motives for wanting Jerry to kill either Amy or Kate. That doesn't really make sense to me at all and it certainly creates a "wrong" feel for the script. Poor Jerry is REALLY being screwed in this script. His wife cheats on him and then he has to chose between killing her or his daughter. As far as I can see, Jerry is an innocent individual here and does not deserve this. If you can find a way to fix that so it all doesn't feel so wrong I think this script will be much better. Also figure out some way to explain why Vincent doesn't do this himself. He just told us it feels good to kill and wouldn't have trouble doing it again...I was thinking while reading that, "well go ahead and do it yourself then".

Small nit picking stuff.

I would have liked to see some descriptions of the carachters. You just give us a name and age. I have a female friend who's name is Jerry so for a short moment I didn't even know if Jerry was a man or a woman. Like Bert I was also momentary confused about Joan. I thought she was some other woman that had showed up.

I think the ending was good and I'm glad Kate did what she did.

This is your first script and I think you did really well, but it can be even better so I hope that you take Bert's and Sniper's comments seriously, because they are correct.

Good Luck with this.

Pia  
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Murphy
Posted: December 4th, 2007, 8:30am Report to Moderator
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Pia, Sniper Thanks both for the read and feedback.

I can certainly now see where the holes are and while am supposed to be busy doing my day job I am actually too busy trying to think of things I could do better! (I came out of a meeting today and could not remember what I had been saying, all I could think about is what Jerry could have done to Vincent - am worried I may have said something out loud! how weird would I have looked, ha-ha!)

Serious though I am guessing this must be a common problem, I mean I know Vincent and Jerry now so well and in my head there is no issue because I understand their motives. Of course that means that the only person who can actually read this script and understand it fully is me - which aint too clever!  It's just trying to work out how I can put that into words without soap opera dialogue and yet convey the story that seems to work so well in my head but I guess this is the reason we post scripts on here so it's good to hear what people think.

I understand your comments about formatting Sniper and they do make sense, I am going to have a look at it again this weekend and try and knock it into shape a bit, all your comments are fair and they really should not take too long to address. As for the changes that are needed to the story, well that is a different matter and needs some thought, I don't want to make any changes just for the sake of it but want to make sure they improve the story. Sniper, I do need to buy that book, I will do tomorrow. I have bought "Screenwriting is storytelling" by Kate Wright (you know where Kate's name came from now!) and found it good but I do need to read something else. I am certainly not one of these people who thinks he knows it all and I welcome any advice anyone can be bothered to spend their time giving me.

I do have an idea spinning around at the moment for a feature and was gonna spend some time to see if it would work before having a crack at it. But I also would like to have a go at re-writing this, so I will see what happens this week. It's a steep old curve I seem to be on but I am not put off yet, I am still hopeful this might be a good way to try and do something creative with my life and while I know I have a lot to learn I still think I can write a decent feature and sell it! (No point aiming low heh?)

Anyway, thanks both for reading, I do appreciate it really.

Thanks Murphy
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rc1107
Posted: December 23rd, 2007, 1:22am Report to Moderator
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Hey Murphy,

Just a little aside:  (Lol!  You just called Kate Wright a cheating whore on a public website!)

All right, on to business:

Whew, it feels good to post a reply to a screenplay without having to state 'You should probably head down to Barnes & Noble and buy a screenwriting book because your formatting licks goat nuts.'  (I think I heard Mr. Z use the phrase 'goat nuts' and it kind of stuck with me.)

So, that said, excellent job on the formatting and the writing was straight forward so it got the story across, no questions need asked.

But, as Bert and a few others pointed out, your 'i' 's that are supposed to be 'I' 's is a problem.  I think it might even be a little bit more of a problem than Bert, Sniper and Pia had let on, because there were more than a few of those.  There's a lot of times that a word needed to be plural and you left singular, or you forgot the apostrophe 's'.  And I also noticed there were a couple times when you meant to use the word 'than', but you spelled it 'that'.  There were some punctuation errors, also, like using a period when there was supposed to be a question mark.  Singularly, they may not be bad mistakes, but for me, it had really disturbed the ebb & flow of the story, and it was a great story.  Luckily, those are easy fixes and for myself, I've found out a pair of fresh eyes editing those mistakes (and only those grammatical errors) can help out tremendously.

As I had said, it was a great story.  I was interested from page one and you had kept the suspense throughout the whole twenty-four pages.  The logic was missing a little bit as to why Vincent wouldn't take out Kate himself, but Bert had proposed what I thought was a very good alternative to getting past that.  Of course, if you don't want to use his way, I'm sure there are many other ideas to get around that little snag.

And wow, you impressed me when I read your comment that this was your first-ever script.  I guess Kate Wright knows what she's doing.  :-)

As for the title, I have to agree with what everybody else had said.  I'm not impressed by it in the slightest.  In fact, when I first came across it, I thought to myself 'Oh great.  Here we go.  G.I. Jane Part two.'  You have no idea how happy I am that that wasn't the case.

Well, once again, I thought it was a very interesting story and thanks for posting it.  I'll be on the look-out for either a rewrite or your name on another story.

- Mark


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Murphy
Posted: December 27th, 2007, 9:33pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for your review, there is nothing you have said that I do not agree with and I appreciate the feedback. I fully realise my grammar is not up to scratch, the i's are a pain to say the least. In my defence I did notice and change this in a draft that has not been uploaded to Simply Scripts yet as I had already (unwisely and rushed) posted it. But it certainly is something i need to work on getting right first time. I have spent many years not worrying to much about perfect grammar, what with MS Word and all.

I have been using Celtx and the spell / grammar check does not seem that good so I have made the decision to shell out the money for Final Draft Pro today and will be writing with that from now on. The Spell check picks up any stray i's i may have left lying around.

Hope everyone had a great Christmas? The last month has been really difficult for me with work and holiday and had very little time to keep up with this site or even my own writing which has been a bummer. The only saving grace is while on holiday I did manage to read some Syd Field which i found incredibly useful.

I have not had a chance to re-write Amy as yet, I have been trying to get my feature script going in the little time I have had.

But I have had communication from two people interested in producing Amy so if this does get made I will probably discuss a final draft with the producer so maybe some work will be done then.

And please if anyone has any suggestions for a title then please let me know.

Thanks
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The boy who could fly
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Hey Murphy, I thought I'd give this a look.  First thing is the title, it reminds me of saving private Ryan, I dunno why but at first glance at the title I thought it was gonna be a spoof..hahaha.  Ok, title aside this is a pretty effective story and pretty interesting idea, to choose between your wife or child.  I think the weakness of the script is the dialogue, a lot of it seemed off, like when Vincent confronts Jerry, that scene didn't seem very real, I think Jerry would be more shocked to find out his wife is cheating on him. I wish Vincent was a little more vicious, more threatening, I think it would have added a lot more suspense.  I did like the ending though, I thought that worked, it had a dramatic punch to it.  I think if you punch up the dialogue and make Vincent more intense the story would work better.  Anyways this is a good concept and it does have a pay off that isn't a let down.


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Murphy
Posted: January 4th, 2008, 6:27am Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the read, I do appreciate it.

The idea was that Jerry already knew his wife was cheating on him hence why it was not really a surprise, any anger was meant to be more directed at Vincent for prying into his business. But I agree this was not made clear enough and is being addressed.

I have been busy re-writing this script and surprised myself how much I have changed, It reads much better now I hope It makes much more sense. In fact i was reading it tonight and it surprised me how much It has turned out as I originally envisaged it looking when I first started writing it - I must have got lost somewhere writing the first version.

I agree the name was a bad Idea, I think it has probably cost me a few reads. That has been addresses now too - the new script is called "Taking Amy".

Thanks again for the read, I will try and have a read of one of yours this weekend and give you some feedback.

Cheers Murphy


** If anyone else is looking to read this script then while I of course welcome and want my scripts read It maybe better to wait for the new version, should be posted in a couple of weeks or so. But if you are really that desperate to read a script of mine then I would suggest looking out for 'Do fake plastic girls dream of fake plastic sheep?' I am really pleased with this one and should be here soon.

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bert
Posted: January 4th, 2008, 9:19am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Murphy
I agree the name was a bad Idea, I think it has probably cost me a few reads.


That is probably more true than you suspect.


Quoted from Murphy
...the new script is called "Taking Amy".


Big, big improvement.


Quoted from Murphy
'Do fake plastic girls dream of fake plastic sheep?


That is kind of a mouthful, Murphy.  Notwithstanding the homage to P.K. Dick -- which I can appreciate -- I fear you may be making the same mistake twice...



Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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rc1107
Posted: January 4th, 2008, 11:12am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Murphy
I would suggest looking out for 'Do fake plastic girls dream of fake plastic sheep?'


Well, I'll read it, but only if you promise this story involves a green plastic watering can for her fake chinese rubber plant.

Hopefully, you'll know know what I'm talking about and I don't sound like an idiot.  I'm not sure, but I think you're from the U.K. so you were referencing 'Fake Plastic Trees', right?


Quoted from Murphy
That has been addresses now too - the new script is called "Taking Amy".


Oh, crap.  Here we go, Chasing Amy Part Two.  What's the logline for this one going to be?  'Guy can't get lesbian, so he takes her?'

:-)

I think it is better, at least.

- Mark


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Murphy
Posted: January 4th, 2008, 11:51am Report to Moderator
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HaHa, Yes, actually both Bert and Mark are correct.

I came up with the title while watching Blade Runner the other night, the book Blade Runner was taken from is by P.K. Dick 'Do androids dream of electric sheep' - I have never read the book, i keep meaning to, but have always loved the title. So I started playing around with it and had something like "do plastic women dream of polystyrene sheep" which I liked and started forming a story around it.

I of course then thought of one of my favorite songs ever in which Radiohead sing about a 'fake plastic girl" and hence i went for "Do fake plastic girls dream of fake plastic sheep".

I'm not sure if it is a bad thing to come up with a title first? probably is, and yes I can see where you are coming from Bert - I may well have made the same mistake twice, I did spend time wondering whether or not to change the title, but maybe because the title came first, or It's the connection to a favorite film and a favorite song but I really did not want to despite my reservations. Whatever happens I really am pleased with the way it has turned out and at the moment having a script I am happy with is more than enough.

And sorry Mark, no lesbians in the new Amy script

Cheers guys

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