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  Author    Meladori  (currently 2476 views)
Don
Posted: December 30th, 2007, 8:11am Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Meladori by Mark Lyons (rc1107) - Short, Western - A perversely wounded woman scours the Southwest Territories in search of the notorious cheat who had coined her the nickname Inside-Out Meladori.  25 pages. - pdf, format


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Soap Hands
Posted: December 31st, 2007, 5:11pm Report to Moderator
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Hey,

lol. Did you just sit down and try to think of the grossest thing you could do? Well, more on that later.

I thought this was written pretty well. Formating was pretty good as far as I could tell. I like your writing style, your sentences and descriptions seemed to be a little longer to me, which slowed the feel of it down, I like that. Also though, I suggest you become a little more concise when you get to the action scenes, to speed up the feel, because everything is happening quickly.

Another thing, that I personally don't mind but a lot of people seem to, is that occasionally you describe things that wouldn't  be capture by the camera. For example, when Smith is shoving wire down the pipe and you describe that he smiles when he knows... and then you go on to explain what is happening inside. That's not captured by the camera so, yeah. Besides that, I don't know if it's really necessary, when you describe Smith pulling and the barb wire catching I think we get the idea.

Story wise I thought this was just kind of average. Really I was bored until Smith took  inside-out outside. I thought the card game went on too long. I think the only character that I found interesting at all was Meladori, the rest were mostly same old same old. Some of the dialog was good (I loved the Pg 7 let faggots into bars line, and it rhymed! +2 points).

Yeah, so overall I thought the story was kind of average and you just hooked the audience with overly violent and grotesque acts, which well, worked on me but I don't know if it will garner you much respect. But hey to each his own... Some people will like it, others won't.  

I consider myself pretty desensitized so I wasn't bothered too much by it (I even kind of give you credit for making me cringe a little) but I think the acts (don't want to spoil it for anybody else that will read) will turn a lot of people off.

Also, the acts were so extreme that they were almost to the point of being ridiculous. For example, when she pulls out the smaller pipe I thought it was going into another hole and I laughed. I don't know if thats what you're going for. It was on the edge of being cartoonish to me which seemed to clash with the tone of the rest of the piece. So, that might be something you want to work on.

Overall, I liked this, I found it interesting once it got going and you held me to the end. However, I'm fairly deranged, I don't know how many other people are going to like it, or respect it.  

Besides that, I'd like to have you know that I'm pretty into Westerns...

John Wayne is rolling over in his grave right now...

Maybe even Peckinpah...

sheepwalker



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rc1107
Posted: January 2nd, 2008, 11:28pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Sheepwalker,

Thanks for reading and sharing your thoughts with me.

Other people might not think like this, but my favorite reaction I get from a movie or a story is when I cringe or jump, and I love hearing when people say it made them cringe during one of my scenes, even just a little.  That's not what I purposely set out to do when I write, though, and I do have a few stories on SS that don't have any violence or gore.

Originally, there was no violence in this.  It was only about the card game and how the legendary lollapalooza hand was created.  I believe that's why the card game was lengthy and I do have to cut that down more.  (I already did chop off four pages of the game before I posted this.)

Then I realized there haven't been very many Westerns lately to show the cruel and vivid animosity that existed in the West, not just people shooting each other in the gut.

But I do believe that you are right, I definately did go overboard with the grotesque acts, but I thought it's what I would have enjoyed reading or watching on screen, so I stuck with the aggressive measures, hoping not to slip over into the genre of an exploitation short.  (Which I might have failed to do when you had said it was almost cartoonish.)

Oh, and lol.  If John Wayne rolled over in his grave, then at least he's right-side up now, cause you know he sure as hell rolled over when 'Reacharound Mountain' came out, or whatever it was called.

As for Sam Peckinpah, I had actually wondered when writing those violent scenes if he would have tackled this project as a feature if he were still with us.  I don't see why he wouldn't, although the main character being a female might thwart him.

Anyway, thanks very much for your read and input, and I'm all over shortening the poker game, much to my chagrin.  :-)

- Mark


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Soap Hands
Posted: January 3rd, 2008, 4:22pm Report to Moderator
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Hey,


Quoted from rc1107
Then I realized there haven't been very many Westerns lately to show the cruel and vivid animosity that existed in the West, not just people shooting each other in the gut.


In the latest 3:10 to Yuma they torture Russel Crow with electrodes, his character also beats some guy to death with a rock I think, maybe it was a cup, wait I think I'm getting confused with Riddick...

Well, anyway I think you take it to a new level. Parts of it were kinda like Saw set in the old West.

But like I was saying I did find it entertaining, I just don't know how many people are going to like it like me.


Quoted from rc1107
If John Wayne rolled over in his grave, then at least he's right-side up now, cause you know he sure as hell rolled over when 'Reacharound Mountain' came out, or whatever it was called.


Oh yeah forgot about that. Don't know if it counts as a western though. Fine movie but you're right, the Duke wouldn't have been happy (He even thought High Noon was anti American), more then rolling over though I think he would have died again. So that would means, now, that the ghost of his dead body is rolled over.


Quoted from rc1107
As for Sam Peckinpah, I had actually wondered when writing those violent scenes if he would have tackled this project as a feature if he were still with us.  I don't see why he wouldn't, although the main character being a female might thwart him.


Yeah, you're probably right. My remark was just intended to convey to you how over the top I thought your violence was. I think it would be fairly funny if he were to do it though, with some of those scene shot in slow motion I mean.  

sheepwalker


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rc1107
Posted: January 3rd, 2008, 5:09pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Soap Hands
In the latest 3:10 to Yuma they torture Russel Crow with electrodes, his character also beats some guy to death with a rock I think, maybe it was a cup, wait I think I'm getting confused with Riddick...


I've been wanting to see that.  Was it any good?  I haven't been able to get out of the house much lately.


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Soap Hands
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Hey,

Yeah, I thought it was great. One of the best movies of the year in my opinion. I thought it was even stronger then the original which is a classic, so that says something.

sheepwalker
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dkw208
Posted: January 3rd, 2008, 7:50pm Report to Moderator
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hey,
i didn't really read other people's notes because i don't want it to color my thoughts.  first of all, holy crap, that was twisted.  you must really love 'kill bill'.  i must say, for my taste, the violence is too much (although clearly you were going for that effect).   after a while though, i feel it becomes too unbearable to watch because it goes on too long.  i think you can be much more effective if you shorten it up, and still have the same action take place.  for instance, do you remember in 'american history x' where edward norton's character places the guy's head on the curb before stomping on it, that was very gruesome, short, and very effective (especially the detail with the teeth touching the curb).  i also think the scenes that recall the opening (like when someone knocks on the door, her meeting the kid), can be greatly shortened, and we'll get the idea that this was the same stuff from the beginning ('michael clayton' does a good job with something like that).  for instance, you could cut from the knock on the door, to the kid saying 'you're inside-out...', and we would get the point.  i haven't read too many scripts that made me cringe in pain, but this did it.  i think it could be stronger if you cut it down to around 16 pages (that is, if you were willing to limit the violence), but just my opinion    


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rc1107
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Hey dkw,

Actually, quite the contrary.  I mean, 'Kill Bill' was all right, but I still like Tarantino's other films better.

Yeah, after reading your 'The Jujitsu Warriors', and then you had asked me to refer you to one of mine, I figured the aggressive measures of Meladori might not be your cup of tea.  So I definately wasn't going to refer that one.  (And, you might want to stay away from Pearl Dive, also.  There's nothing really bad until the final five or six words, but it still makes me cringe (and laugh hysterically), which is something I got over with Meladori.)

Yeah, you are right, I did question myself in the repetition of the first few scenes and then use the whole scenes later for the midpoint.  I think the reason I did do that was just to slow the story down a little bit, to get the feel that a fair amount of time has passed between Meladori being violated, and then her getting her revenge.  But I think I'm going to cut the repetition scenes in the beginning and only show a few seconds of the scene, rather than almost half of it.

As for the violence.  Well, it's meant to be a loud statement.  I think that most of the violent and even a lot of the slasher films that I've seen have taken the statement 'Referring to violence is stronger than actually showing it', too much to heart.  Even 'Pulp Fiction', (not counting the adrenaline shot) and 'American History X', both extremely excellent movies, are culprits of that.

True, they're still very strong scenes, but I think showing the guy's jaw splitting in half against the curb would have driven the reality of the consequences of what happens when you do this home.  In that aspect, I think it would have made the rest of the movie stronger.

I know that's not the best reason to have extreme carnage, but, if you ever look at the audience in the theater during a very violent part of the movie, which I go back and see movies again and again just to watch the crowd's reactions, there are those people who are squeamish and look away, even when they don't show the violent action on screen.  They always have that option.  I guess I just like to consider myself giving them a reason to look away.

Thank you very much for the read and your opinions, and believe me, I am understanding where you're coming from with the violence, and definately doing some work on the repetitive scenes.

- Mark


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Murphy
Posted: January 4th, 2008, 6:31pm Report to Moderator
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Oh my god.



Now I would never usually call myself squeamish, I watch movies such as Hostel, Wolf Creek etc.. with no problems . But never in my life have I ever read anything that made me draw my knees up to my chest and cover my eyes! Occasionally a movie scene may do it (the last time was probably the castration scene in Hard Candy) but never has a book or screenplay ever done it. So I would imagine you are quite happy with that?

I am actually really surprised this never came with any warning!

I actually liked the story very much, I think when reviewing another script of yours I said I was a sucker for revenge flicks, and with the Western genre seemingly getting a boot up the arse at the moment it was very current, In fact when you come to think of it a decent horror screenplay set in the old West would probably have a chance of selling - should I have said that out loud? So all the ingredients were there and you made a pretty decent meal out of them, your writing was spot on, I had no issues with the card game I felt it really built up the tension because we knew that something big was about to happen and It was like a mild torture keeping us waiting for it. At first i assumed that Meladori was actually a ghost come back for revenge and was pleased that she was not, I am not so big on ghost movies even ghost revenge ones. So all in all a well written, really good, edge of your seat and disgusting torture porn script.

Things I think could be changed? Not a great deal, but there were a few things that stuck in my head.

Did people use the word 'Faggot' as a term for gay's In the Wild west?

I detested the "drink puss from a N*****s ear" line, and don't get me wrong it was not so much the N word (I happy with the fact that some characters are going to be people who use the word) but the whole sentence that I really, really disliked. And this being the 'before' Meladori I am wondering why you have her saying it too? Are you not going for sympathy for her at this stage? I am sure that would turn a lot of people off of her. She has just seen her husband killed in front of her, I would think she would not have the time nor the inclination to dream that one up.

Someone has already mentioned the "double scenes" (I have no idea what to call that) and I agree with the comments made, It probably would have been better just cutting straight back to where we left off at her in-laws, no real need to repeat what we have seen.

And a very minor one but it is Countryside and not Country-Side.


So thanks, It was a really good read (don't think I will read it again though!!)

Cheers Murphy


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rc1107
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Hey Murphy,

Lol, I was wondering if they used the word 'faggot' back then myself, after I wrote it.  I know I had heard it used before in fiction books written back in the 1600's, but that was used to describe a contemptuous or mean-spirited woman.  I did a little bit of research and the first evidence of the word 'faggot' (used to describe an effemminate male) being used in print was in 1910.  I know I didn't state an exact year that Meladori takes place in, but I was thinking early 1890's in my head, so I'm off by probably about eighteen or nineteen years.  Not too far off.  It's about the same time span as when Meatloaf's 'Bat Out of Hell II' or Metallica's 'Black' album was released until today.  (I'm not sure if you guys have Metallica or Meatloaf over in Australia.  But if you don't, then think of the time span between Silverchair's "Frogstomp" until now, plus four years.)  :-)

Yeah, I agree with you.  The 'suck puss' line may not have been suitable here, but I thought I needed to ante up the reason as to why Smith Delray would do such a monstrous thing to a woman.  Although, I guess losing a game of poker to a girl is a monstrous enough reason.  :-)  (I seriously just meant that as a joke.  Please don't be offended if you're a woman reading this.  Believe me, I know there's a lot of great female poker players out there.)


Quoted from Murphy
Now I would never usually call myself squeamish, I watch movies such as Hostel, Wolf Creek etc.. with no problems . But never in my life have I ever read anything that made me draw my knees up to my chest and cover my eyes! Occasionally a movie scene may do it (the last time was probably the castration scene in Hard Candy) but never has a book or screenplay ever done it. So I would imagine you are quite happy with that?


Deliriously happy.  But, I'm even more happy that you enjoyed the story.  I wrote the story first.  I didn't even think of putting any violence or gore in whatsoever until after the first draft was written.  Then, Meladori's and Smith's exchange got my juices flowing and one thing led to another.

Thank you for taking the time to read this one and for your opinions and your incredible compliments.

- Mark

P.S.- I have to go out and hay and water the horses now.  It's funny.  Everytime I see them running in from the field, I can't help but think what they could possibly be dragging behind them.  I wonder if it's really going to affect me when I'm able to saddle them up and ride them again.  :-)


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rc1107
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Quoted from Murphy
I am actually really surprised this never came with any warning!


Oh yeah.  By the way Don, thanks for posting this.  :-)


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I'm glad I finally got to this one.  I think that you could easily keep most of the card game in by getting rid of the scenes in the begining.  Get her dressed, get her water, and smash Smith's face.  Almost that fast.  Not quite as fast as the wedding in "Raising Arizona," but more of a montage perhaps.  Plenty of time to rouse sympathy during the card game.  I got the feeling that Meladori was messing with him at the game and trying to provoke him.  I thought there was a whole revenge set up with the card game the way it came in on the heels of her tossing the glass at him.  Little did I know, it hadn't even started yet.  So, you may want to cut to the cards a little later in the game.

You said you were thinking of something that would motivate Smith to such an atrocity.  Does it have to be right after the game?  I know she's tough and all, but right after her husband and the Sheriff are killed and she's out gunned?  Just seems suicidal.  It would make more sense for her to fail in some rash revenge as Smith is running away from town.  Something that could provoke such ire.  That way I won't be wondering why there's not one local with a pair large enough to try to stop them from their rather elaborate scheme.  As soon as it would have been clear what they were planning on doing, I would have risked my life to get her free.  No witnesses.

Speaking as someone who has had a few occassions to conjure up horrible demises for antagonists, I don't think this was over the top.  It seemed like an Old West torture porn was in the works, but didn't pan out enough.  Smith's reaction to what happened was too severe and misongynistic for what she did/didn't do.  Meladori's reaction, too kind.  I felt like Smith should have died afterwards, not during.  I felt cheated.  Revenge is dependent on one-upping your adversary to feel satisfied, but there was no sense of Meladori getting satisfied on her losses, just her personal attack.  Maybe have the coil of another wire wrapped around his body and attached to the north and south wire.  The only thing keeping the wires from cutting into his flesh would be the wires inside him.  But, once they're pulled out and the coil is pulled straight...  Just a thought.

All things considered this is a good script about a difficult story.  I don't know how you would be able to pull this off under an "X" rating.  If you would want to.  I agree with you that there tends to be a too soft a consequence for deadly actions shown on screen.  How many times have we seen close-range head shots and bite-the-bullet suicides where the face is still recognizable.  Would we see it in real life if people knew what it would look like after they did it?  No need to check for flash/powder burns on those to determine close range.  Still.  Wouldn't get past the censors until you had enough clout to argue with them.  I think there is quite a bit of desensitization.  But, because it doesn't look that bad.  The compulsion to vomit for first-time killers so aptly captured on screen has a lot do with the consequences of the bodily trauma and a little to do with the humanity of killing another human being.  I don't think you should soften the violence in this script, but I do think it would hinder its distribution/marketing.  Tough subject.  Good job.


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tomson
Posted: January 6th, 2008, 8:43pm Report to Moderator
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SPOILERS:

Suggestions as I read along.

No need to use CUT TO’s

You can stick to DAY or NIGHT. Late afternoon is just DAY unless the sun’s position  or an exact time is necessary, but even then it should be described in the action paragraph, not in the scene heading.

Is it patroner or patrons? I don’t know, but patrons sound more familiar to me.

Don’t write LATER in the scene heading. You can simply just write LATER on it’s own line and continue on.

When is this supposed to take place? If it was in the old west, did they use the word faggot?

Maybe, but I thought it was more of a modern word even if derogatory.

You need to also try to finish your action paragraphs at the end of the page or write cont’d. It’s distracting reading sentences that leave one or two words to be found on the next page.

Page 11,  you forgot to mention DAY or NIGHT in the scene heading.

Page 13, OUCH!! I haven’t seen that before… You do however describe a lot of things that can’t be filmed. Try to visualize this as if on film and only describe what we can actually see. Unless a camera is filming her insides, we can only imagine what is going on. However, we have a pretty good idea.

You know this isn’t even an R-rated script anymore, right?

Let me get this straight. Are you saying her nickname “inside-out” means her insides were ripped out? If so I find this highly unreal. She would be bleeding to death right now and the pain most certainly would not be a “stinging” pain. More like a “knock you unconscious while dying” type of pain.

Like how you started this out, went to a long flashback and came back and replayed the beginning.

Haha, like the swallowing sword trick… not that I know it or anything. Just saying…

How can Smith talk with that barbed wire down his throat?

Maybe a razorwire instead of barb wire?  

How do we know she slams the same rib? Maybe just mention it’s in the same area.

Nice twist with the baby.

All in all, I thought this was pretty good. Basically it’s a about a woman brutally hurt by Smith and she gets her revenge in the end by the same method. IMHO, a few things need to be worked on however (see above mentioned items). The revenge itself as nicely gruesome as it was, seemed too elaborate and planned which makes me lose some sympathy for Meladori.

The gruesome torture of her would most likely have killed her too.

Descriptions could be streamlined some for a quicker read. I do believe you have something pretty good here though and I hope you consider a perfecting rewrite.

Btw, I’m not at all trying to get you to read Savage Frontier, but this script reminded me of that a lot and I applaud you for having written a western (no less) that has a female heroine.  

Hope this helps,

Pia
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rc1107
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Quoted from Gwydion
That way I won't be wondering why there's not one local with a pair large enough to try to stop them


The locals just watching and not doing anything did disturb me at first and I thought long and hard how to handle that situation.  I know I didn't want anybody to step up and be a hero, because I didn't want any distractions from Meladori's, umm, I don't know... attack?  But it didn't sit right with me that they'd just stand around either.

Then, I thought, Smith and his gang do have a notorious and violent reputation.  And they did just shoot a man in the face, not to mention the sherriff, their leader.  In that thinking, I might consider it possible that the rest of the folks in the saloon might have second thoughts about helping.


Quoted from Gwydion
Maybe have the coil of another wire wrapped around his body and attached to the north and south wire.  The only thing keeping the wires from cutting into his flesh would be the wires inside him.  But, once they're pulled out and the coil is pulled straight...


Hmm...  I kind of like that.  Mind if I play around with it?


Quoted from Gwydion
How many times have we seen close-range head shots and bite-the-bullet suicides where the face is still recognizable.


That's always irked me.  That's why 'disintegrates' is my new favorite word.  Too bad I don't write more about guns.


Hey pia,

I know, I know.  CUT TO:'s are a habit of mine I just can't seem to break.  I don't know why, but as soon as I know there's a time elapse, without thinking, my fingers naturally hit 'Enter', then 'Tab' until the end of the line and finally 'C', 'U','T', 'Spacebar', 'T','O', 'Colon'.

Just between you and me, I think it's God controlling me somehow, so I don't take fault for that.  


Quoted from pia
When is this supposed to take place? If it was in the old west, did they use the word faggot?


I thought about that, so I actually did do the research for this one, plus, Murphy had mentioned it before.

I knew I had seen 'faggot' used in books written back in the 17th Century, believe it or not.  But back then, 'faggot' referred to a contemptuous or mean-spirited woman.  (I know what I'm going to call you now if you ever say anything bad about me or my screenplay.)  During the witch trials, some were referred to as 'fagots'.

The first evidence of the word 'faggot' (used to describe an effemminate male) being used in print was in 1910.  I know I didn't state an exact year that Meladori takes place in, but I was thinking early 1890's in my head, so I'm off by probably about eighteen or nineteen years.  But, that was in print, so, hopefully they were using the term before that.


Quoted from pia
You need to finish your action paragraphs at the end of the page or write cont’d. It’s distracting reading sentences that leave one or two words to be found on the next page.


Don't be a faggot, Pia.  


Quoted from pia
Let me get this straight. Are you saying her nickname “inside-out” means her insides were ripped out?


No, I meant for her nickname to be taken only figuratively.  The barb had just ripped through her vaginal tissue and walls, it didn't actually pull her insides out.  It was meant for the townspeople to just stir up the image of a woman being dragged behind a horse by her vagina.  Kind of like at the end when Meladori voices "They say my horse dragged his heart through the night until it stopped beating, but that ain't the truth..."  Of course, the barb would have never pulled his heart out, but it creates a stirring legend.


Quoted from pia
Haha, like the swallowing sword trick… not that I know it or anything. Just saying…


  I like that trick, too.  Well, receiving it.  I'd make a terrible gay person.  I have such a horrible gag reflex.  Sometimes, I even gag when I brush my teeth.  (By the way, I hope you didn't take that winking guy as a sign I was coming on to you.)  ((Not that I'm repulsed by you and I would never come on to you...  just that, well, you know what I mean.))

Thank you both, Gwydion and Pia for taking a look at this and writing your thoughts down for me, they will come in great handy, because I do plan on working with Meladori a lot more.  I kind of fell in love with her somewhere along the way.  Too bad she's married, though.  Maybe I could write a scene with her and me before she meets her husband.  I'm already at an NC-17 rating, why not go all the way with it?

'If anything's worth doing, it's worth doing right', a good doctor once said.

- Mark


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Play around with the wires all you want.  Just make sure Smith suffers more.  ;-p


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Oh, What a Night
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