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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Drama Scripts  ›  Kirkwood Moderators: bert
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  Author    Kirkwood  (currently 3601 views)
Don
Posted: August 29th, 2008, 10:09pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Kirkwood by Erik Dickson - Drama - A legal aide attorney defends his estranged brother, a Baptist minister, when he's charged with beating a young woman into a violent miscarriage.  141 pages - pdf, format


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Dreamscale
Posted: November 12th, 2008, 4:31pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Erik, I read your first 2 pages...you start with a long (VO), which will play for well over a minute.  What is on screen during this speech?
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ericdickson
Posted: November 16th, 2008, 10:35pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Hey Erik, I read your first 2 pages...you start with a long (VO), which will play for well over a minute.  What is on screen during this speech?



It's not 2 pages of voice over, just 1.  Just read the descriptions at the beginning of the script.  It's a CLOSE UP of a young child's eyes, staring blankly at something before him.  We're seeing through the eyes of a young, innocent boy, setting up a theme for the rest of the story.  

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dogglebe
Posted: November 17th, 2008, 10:52am Report to Moderator
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I started reading this, Erick. but I put it down after twenty pages.  Your writing is very long-winded and it doesn't go anywhere.  From what I've read, I would have no idea what this script is about.  Generally, Hollywood gives you fifteen pages to get the story going.  All I've read was background information and some character development.

There is a lot of fat in this script to trim.  Your descriptions are way too long and prose-like.  If you were to condense everything, you would probably shorten this script by a third.

One example on how to shorten it would be to take the opening soliloquy and tell it while Ben is stealing candy.  Listening to it while staring at a kid's eyes only drags it out.

Cut back on the voice over.  Show us the story; don't tell us.


Phil
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Dreamscale
Posted: November 17th, 2008, 11:27am Report to Moderator
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Yeah, I agree completely with Phil.  I only got through the opening (VO), and it was very, very long, and if it indeed is being spoken over a childs eyes for almost 2 minutes, well...that's just not a good use of screen time.

Sorry.
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ericdickson
Posted: November 17th, 2008, 7:06pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Yeah, I agree completely with Phil.  I only got through the opening (VO), and it was very, very long, and if it indeed is being spoken over a childs eyes for almost 2 minutes, well...that's just not a good use of screen time.

Sorry.


So you just couldn't go on because the first page voice over was too long?  Okay, I can see that.  I'll work on cutting down the first fifteen pages of Ben's childhood and condensing this thing down, but do me the favor of reading from page 20 on.  There's a good courtroom drama here with a lot of reasearch, blood, sweat and tears behind it.  People seem to like the script from that point on, Ben as a grown up, not a child.   I just have to figure out how to tell Ben and Kevin's childhood backstory and parents death a little quicker.

Thanks,
Eric    

    

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dogglebe
Posted: November 17th, 2008, 9:00pm Report to Moderator
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A lot of people say the script gets better after the point where people stop reading it; I don't believe it.  The foundations of every script is laid out starting with the first page.  Any problems at the beginning will be found at the end.  If I pointed out numerous spelling mistakes in the first twenty pages, I wouldn't believe you if you said the spelling got better after page twenty.  

I read the first twenty pages of a feature length script (give or take).  If I like what I'm reading, I continue.  If I don't I stop.  Before I started doing it this way, I've forced my way through a lot of scripts.  And I don't want to read scripts that I don't like.


Phil
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ericdickson
Posted: November 18th, 2008, 9:14am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from dogglebe
A lot of people say the script gets better after the point where people stop reading it; I don't believe it.  The foundations of every script is laid out starting with the first page.  Any problems at the beginning will be found at the end.  If I pointed out numerous spelling mistakes in the first twenty pages, I wouldn't believe you if you said the spelling got better after page twenty.  

I read the first twenty pages of a feature length script (give or take).  If I like what I'm reading, I continue.  If I don't I stop.  Before I started doing it this way, I've forced my way through a lot of scripts.  And I don't want to read scripts that I don't like.


Phil



Great.  Neither one of us wants you to read Kirkwood.  Agreed.  

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dogglebe
Posted: November 18th, 2008, 9:48am Report to Moderator
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I don't understand your attitude, Eric.  And I don't appreciate it.

I gave your script an honest try and wrote and honest critique of it.  Dreamscale, the only other person to look at it, agrees with what I say.  I don't get paid to read anyone's scripts; I read them because I want to.  If I don't, then I put them down.  Have you finished reading every script you've started here?

I pointed out a major problem in your script.  It starts on the first page and, probably, continues until the last page.  Your writing style is long and dragged out, making it unpleasant to read.  Knowing this, I'm going to read another 120 pages of it?

And, given your attitude, I don't see you getting too many people to read it.


PHil
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ericdickson
Posted: November 18th, 2008, 10:25am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from dogglebe
I don't understand your attitude, Eric.  And I don't appreciate it.

I gave your script an honest try and wrote and honest critique of it.  Dreamscale, the only other person to look at it, agrees with what I say.  I don't get paid to read anyone's scripts; I read them because I want to.  If I don't, then I put them down.  Have you finished reading every script you've started here?

I pointed out a major problem in your script.  It starts on the first page and, probably, continues until the last page.  Your writing style is long and dragged out, making it unpleasant to read.  Knowing this, I'm going to read another 120 pages of it?

And, given your attitude, I don't see you getting too many people to read it.


PHil



And Phil responds in a new record time of only 24 minutes.    
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alffy
Posted: November 18th, 2008, 10:36am Report to Moderator
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Getting on the goat of a respected member is not the way to go Jack. If you don't want advice don't post your scripts on here. Everyone and I mean everyone gets bad reviews from time to time and you have to take them on the chin and learn from your mistakes, this is how you will become a better writer. I'm not saying everything Phil says is gospel but always take on board advice and if more than one person points out something that doesn't work, maybe they're right. Just my advice, take it or leave it.


Check out my scripts...if you want to, no pressure.

You can find my scripts here
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ericdickson
Posted: November 18th, 2008, 10:59am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from alffy
Getting on the goat of a respected member is not the way to go Jack. If you don't want advice don't post your scripts on here. Everyone and I mean everyone gets bad reviews from time to time and you have to take them on the chin and learn from your mistakes, this is how you will become a better writer. I'm not saying everything Phil says is gospel but always take on board advice and if more than one person points out something that doesn't work, maybe they're right. Just my advice, take it or leave it.



Phil's opinion was noted.  I didn't lash back.  I responded to another writer by asking them if they would continue reading my script if I worked on fixing up and trimming the first act.  I was polite about it.   This writer and I are doing an exhange.  What do I see but more of Phil's comments.  Saying, more or less the same thing.      

Phil won't even let me ask another writer to continue reading my script on my own board?  If you read my above comments, you'll see I'm working on trimming the first act.                      

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alffy
Posted: November 18th, 2008, 11:30am Report to Moderator
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My mistake Jack and I appologise. I guess I missunderstood your stand point and I'm glad I was wrong. Best of luck with the rewite.


Check out my scripts...if you want to, no pressure.

You can find my scripts here
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ericdickson
Posted: November 18th, 2008, 11:46am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from alffy
My mistake Jack and I appologise. I guess I missunderstood your stand point and I'm glad I was wrong. Best of luck with the rewite.



Thank you.  I appreciate it.  It's the majority opinion that my "Goodfellas" opening with Ben and Kevin's childhood is far too long.  I'll see what I can do to trim it down.    
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slabstaa
Posted: November 18th, 2008, 11:53am Report to Moderator
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Goodfellas?  I thought it was more reminiscent of The Departed.
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