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Hey Alex, didn't want to comment on this for fear of sounding stupid, but i really didn't get it. There were a few formatting errors, Onpg 8 Claudes title is missing over dialogue. Saw a space under someone elses dialogue too.
SPOILERS!!!!!!
I like the twist of the cops coming for john, but I never understood why? Did he kill Carol? Also, the ending threw me for a loop. Was John a skitzo? Was he really Thomas? Was he taking Claude to see Thomas and he dies in the car? I just really couldn't make out the ending. Sorry, James
Yep, sorry I have to agree. I can't work out what's going on and have to admit I ended up skipping through it. A little elucidation would be grateful - (sorry that word just came to me) and in this instance it's apt. Are you going for a David Lynch type scenario?
This was a weird one. Heavy stuff, unclear and unnerving. Felt like watching Twin Peaks half way through without a clue. That's not necessarily a bad thing by the way. I love Lynch.
Most of the dialogue felt real enough to me. Some of it is strange but I went with it. I could imagine the right actors saying it.
I can safely say I've not read anything like this before on here. I kept reading, wondering, reading, what's happening, reading, woah, what the...oh.
There's a few format & typo errors, nothing much.
Anyways, I quite enjoyed it. I get the feeling you were trying to create something of a puzzle that couldn't really be solved, at least not by conventional means.
Overall I was left with a strange but pleasant feeling, a bit like being in a minor car crash where no-one was injured.
SPOILERS, WELL MAYBE...I DUNNO
I came to the conclusion that Claude is his father. In other words John is Thomas. I have very little evidence for this.
Thanks so much for the replies, I really appreciate it. This is exactly the kind of feedback I need, as I have all of the plot points and clear structure of the script in my outline, and many people have said that they just don't understand it. Obviously I need to do another re-write, which I will do as soon as I can. This script is a sort of exercise for me. I wanted to create a short that was ambiguous, and sort of a puzzle, had complex characters, but also had some plot-twists that short films usually have. It is entirely my fault that the puzzle may be unsolvable - I thought that I included everything I needed to for it to be figured out. There are obviously a few things I need to change, and make a little more obvious, without destroying what I am trying to accomplish.
Claude was suffering from dementia. I'm not sure if that was clear enough, but it was important. Carol was already dead. John committed a horrible act, it's not really important what.
Thanks for the formatting correction, jwent6688, I don't know how I missed that.
Dreamscale, thanks for the comment. The dialogue is terrible because it is long and odd? Because it isn't believable? All of it? If not, which parts? That could also be a comment on the characters. I will re-write it.
It's interesting that two of you see a Lynchian quality to the script. The red stoplight at the end was a direct reference and has the same symbolic meaning that it does in Lynch's films. But that's all I really intended. It's really great to hear what other people think, as I see the script very differently to other people, because I understand it structurally, there is little mystery for me. I see the script as completely unpretentious, and I assure you there is supposed to be meaning behind everything in it, I will just have to work a little harder.
Thanks for the comment, rendevous. I'm glad it intrigued you. That was kind of the point, and for it to have a moody feel. You definitely understand what I am going for, I will just need to re-write, but try to keep my intentions in check. You are definitely onto something, but I would love you to read my re-write when I put it up and see what you think then - instead of spilling my entire outline out here.
These comments have opened my eyes, and I will keep them in mind when I do the re-write. Any other comments would be greatly appreciated.
Hey Alex, I just gave this one a read after I read the other comments.
I have to agree that I didn't really get the story and all the details of what was going on. However your general formatting and writing is fine, so that is a positive. I think it's a case of you perhaps trying too hard to make it mysterious and ambiguous and the result is we didn't have all the information needed to understand it.
I didn't get that Claude was suffering from dementia. You say it's important so you need to make that bit more obvious. I did get that Carol was already dead though. As for John committing a terrible act I think it's important to at least give us some sort of idea of what it was. It provides some context for the police showing up. As it is at the moment the cops show up but it just sort of happens out of the blue and doesn't really fit the rest of the story.
There were problems with the dialogue also like others mentioned. Like in the first instance Claude and John speak. John says "You haven't happened to see anybody strange around here have you? Lately?" It's not related at all to what Claude was talking about before and seems a bit strange to say. Then Claude replies "Hmm, well, no, unfortunately not. A little specification could help?" Why is it unfortunate to not see anyone strange hanging around? Then he is asking the next bit like a question instead of making a statement, is that what you intended. If so, it is weird. I mean most people would simply say "Can you be more specific?" It's your choice with how you want to use your dialogue but a lot of it feels a bit unnatural and unconnected to what is happening.
I think you could have the basis for a good story here, I see you are working on a rewrite so I'd be interested to see how that turns out.
Hey Alex, I decided to reread this and give you detailed feedback, much like I usually do when I critique a script. I was impressed with your response to the feedback you received. You took all the negativity very well, and I feel you deserve some details.
I also want to apologize for using the word “terrible” to describe the dialogue . That’s a bit harsh, and doesn’t do you any good in understanding what I meant. I’ve taken notes as I read and I think this should help you in understanding exactly what I was thinking about on a page by page basis.
Based on the level of detail, this is going to be a double post. I hope this helps, and if I can be of any other service, let me know.
Page 1 – Kind of odd how you list both characters as “male”. With names of John and Claude, it’s pretty obvious.
Both character descriptions are very long, compound, run-on sentences. Each should most likely be broken up into at least 2 sentences, or the use of “…” could bind them together a bit better, grammatically. I don’t mean to be nit picky, but these are the first 2 sentences we read, so it kind of sets the stage for expectations, if you know what I mean.
Also, it’s strange how you give Claude a last name, but not John. I’d recommend first names only here, unless there is a reason for this.
“EXT. FOOTPATH OUTSIDE CLAUDE'S HOUSE - DAY John walks out his front yard and continues down the footpath for a few paces.” – This seems a bit odd to me. The slug of “footpath…” seems funny, as does the phrasing “…walks out his front yard…”. I’d recommend renaming the slug and rewriting the sentence.
What does “Oi” mean? Never heard it before…it sounds strange.
So, here’s where the slug heading just doesn’t hold. As they’re talking, it seems to be that they’re just outside Claude’s house. I doubt this footpath thing is still in play.
OK, here comes some of that dialogue that I originally called terrible…check it out and see if you think it sounds right…or real.
JOHN “Ah, can I ask you something? You haven't happened to see anybody strange around here have you? Lately? CLAUDE Hmm, well, no, unfortunately not. A little specification could help?
This entire exchange just sounds really weird and unrealistic.
Page 2 – Same thing with the entire dialogue exchange here. It all comes off as so stilted, and strange, and unrealistic. Claude says the houses will double in price, and that he bought it for $15,000, and can sell it for $350,000. That’s a tad more than double. Then he makes a comment about “your average dick head earning a tenth of that". Just downright strange dialogue that doesn’t go anywhere and doesn’t seem at all natural. Then John’s response of “Maybe the best is over.” Just comes off once again as really, really odd…and meaningless.
Page 3 – OK, I can see the dementia here at the top of the page, but without that knowledge, it comes off as just strange again.
Next scene – where in the world is this supposed to be taking place? They live right next to a “gigantic and expansive forest”? Obviously, there’s no need for both gigantic and expansive here.
OK, so I’m really confused again. What’s with the “shadowed man” standing behind John in this gigantic forest?
You continue to use “DAY” in your slugs, when I think it’s obvious some should be “MORNING”, unless John sleeps through the morning?
“The door opens to Claude. John extends his arms out, presenting himself.” – both these sentences sound odd in their phrasing. I’d suggest rewriting them both.
“Claude motions at John to take a seat. John sits.” – again, awkwardly phrased.
“A slight smirk appears on Claude.” – awkwardly phrased again.
I’d stay away from using words like “begins” whenever possible.
Page 4 – The dialogue and exchanges at the top of this page, are again what I’d call pretty poor. It just all comes off as so strange and stilted. Now, I guess if Claude has dementia or whatever, it makes more sense, but without knowing that, it just comes off as odd.
Another issue I have is the passage of time. Because your scenes are so short, and just about every scene reads “DAY”, I have no clue if we’re in the same day, or a bunch of days have passed. I guess John has woken up twice, so it’s at least 2 days time, but Claude’s line about John being a reliable young man, who keeps coming to see him, throws me off again. As far as we know, this is the first time John has come over.
The next paragraph is also odd, as it brings up a photo of 2 people that we have no clue who they are, and I don’t think it comes up again, so what’s the point?
The dialogue exchange that follows is again very odd to me…but maybe you intended it to be. On a first read, with no knowledge as to the situation or anything else, it just doesn’t sound good…or right.
Page 5 – “quietened”? This isn’t a word, and again, just comes off as weird.
OK, now the weirdest part of all…Claude’s little speech about leaving, asking John to stay, etc. He even says there’s an extra bed! WTF? Maybe I’m missing something here, but this just reads so crazy, and WTF-like. I just don’t even know what to think or say about this, other than it’s odd (but I’ve been using that word a lot, haven’t I? Sorry, I’ll try and come up with a new word).
Another “funny” thing…John obviously doesn’t work, does he? Everything takes place during the day, and he seems to have nothing that he has to do, work wise. Hmmm…
Page 6 – “He smells something…” – You need to show this, not tell us.
This dinner scene took me aback at first. It has a semi-gay tone to it, and again, comes off as really strange.
Why does John say, “Thanks for this. You’ve actually helped me out a lot.”? It makes no sense at all to me.
I don’t think any of the dialogue on this page sounds real at all. Almost comes off as 2 robots speaking.
Page 7 – OK, again, I have lots of issues with the dialogue and exchanges on this page. Sorry to keep repeating myself, but I think the most appropriate word to use is “odd”. Claude has 3 long speeches, and none of them sound realistic. They sound odd.
Page 8 – So now, all of a sudden, “art” is brought up, and the notion that it’s “fucked”. I don’t get it at all. Where is this going? Where did this come from?
There is a description line buried inside some dialogue here.
Claude’s last 2 speeches are poor, IMO, and make little sense, and just aren’t worded like anyone would speak.
Page 9 – Wow, these first 2 dialogue bits are out there and seem to come from left field. Socrates? Actually, the following interactions are also way out there and don’t make sense. John says, “That sounds lonely...” – Huh? I don’t get it.
OK, so now we go to “EVENING”, so we know this is at least a day later, since the prior scene was “NIGHT”.
“John is lying back on his couch, reading a copy of Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.” – a number of issues with this line – 2 passive verbs (lying and reading). Your mention of the exact book title and author is strange. Is there some meaning to this? I am familiar with Ayn Rand by name only, and have not read any of her works.
You use “WOMAN” in the dialogue box, but we know her name is Sally – just use “Sally”.
Page 10 – The exchange between John and Sally doesn’t come off right, and sounds off. First thing Sally would do, is confirm who she’s speaking with. There would also be a last name to verify who he is…not just ,”You are John, aren’t you?” And then, John says, “OK, thanks.” – thanks for what? Seems strange and out of place.
Now we get really weird with the arrival of the cops, who appear out of the blue, and we never know what’s going on.
“John is frantically trying to figure another way out of the house…” – this is a poorly written sentence and should be rewritten. Don’t use “is” as your main verb, because it requires a passive verb (trying). Also, you’re telling us something, as apposed to showing us. It’s an unfilmable, for the most part.
Page 11 – So now we switch back to DAY, which is strange, as the call from the nurse came in during the EVENING. I’m very confused.
You use “begins” again – stay away from this word.
“hunching and lowering” – 2 more passive verbs in a row.
The police woman’s dialogue is formatted incorrectly. The wrylie is also incorrectly used and odd with the OS reference. Again, what’s “Oi” mean? Never heard of this “word”.
The following paragraph is all awkwardly worded. Don’t use “then”, as it’s unnecessary. It just doesn’t give a good visual and the “…but doesn’t stop trying.” part is very confusing.
I don’t buy the part about him hitting her over the head either…and where is her partner? So he just gets away somehow and goes to the hospital? No, I don’t buy it.
“John enters, looking unkempt. Stands a little way from the bed.” – these 2 lines should be on the same line, as the 2nd sentence isn’t a sentence at all, and comes off odd by itself on its own line.
John and Claude’s dialogue here also comes off as very strange and doesn’t sound right at all.
Page 12 – Their interaction again here is very vague…and oddly worded. It doesn’t work for me at all, and I just am left clueless as to what’s going on, why they’re saying what they’re saying, and how I’m supposed to feel about this.
You use the exact same slug as before – “INT. HOSPITAL – AFTERNOON” – which doesn’t make any sense. It should show some passage of time (MOMENTS LATER, or the like).
Page 13 – So now, Claude calls John, Thomas. So John is actually Claude’s son? They live next door to each other? Is this why you didn’t give John a last name originally? Again, I’m very confused, as I would imagine the hospital would have contact info, and it wouldn’t be “John”…it would be “Thomas”, his son.
The following 1 liners are all rather strange, again. Based on the fact that each scene here is only 1 line, we’re obviously talking about quick flashes, and nothing else, and I don’t understand what effect you’re going for here.
I think a big problem with the read here is your continual use of “DAY” or NIGHT” in your slugs, when actually, you should be using things like “CONTINUOUS”, “MOMENTS LATER”, or just “LATER”. They would really help clarify what’s going on in terms of time and the like.
The end…hmmm…I just don’t get it. Way too much left in ambiguity, and this example of ambiguity is a perfect example of how ambiguity doesn’t work. Don’t get me wrong, I actually love ambiguity, when it’s properly used…and set up. But here, it’s not. Way too many things left unanswered and unexplained, with little or no information given that could help us figure things out. Based on the lack of real story here, the questions comes down to, why would we even want to try to figure things out? Bottom line is that ambiguity can be very cool, but every single aspect of your script is ambiguous…the characters…their actions…the story itself, and because of that, it doesn't work.
So, we can guess that John is actually Thomas, and Claude is his father, who isn’t doing well, in terms of his reality/fantasy. But what does that leave us with? What does it mean? What’s the meaning of this script? What’s up with the cops? John hit 1 over the head and knocked her out, so you’d think there’d be an APB out for his arrest. It seems the cops already were after him, but for some reason, they’re not doing much to find him or bring him in. What happens to Claude? What happens to John? What’s up with their relationship? What did John do to get the cops after him? Who was the “shadowed man” in the woods? Who were the people in the photo?
Just way too many questions, and too little story. The dialogue is downright weird throughout, and doesn’t really say much of anything, even if it did make sense.
I think you’ve missed your mark here, and need to go back and figure out exactly what your story is, and why you wanted to write it. What did you want to get across to your audience?
Hope this doesn’t come across as harsh or the like. These are merely my opinions and they’re all meant to help you as a writer. I hope they do, and I hope what I’ve said makes sense.
Jeff, I mean no offense with this (I've been guilty of it myself in the past - so now I double check) but with all due respect we have to be absolutely certain when reviewing to say a word is in fact not a word ...
"Quietened" is the simple past tense and past participle of "quieten"- as in "the baby has quietened down now".
Also, it's interesting the cultural differences in usage just between our English speaking countries. I'm guessing here that Alex is of Australian or English background --ever heard of "Aussie Aussie Aussie oi oi oi!" our sporting chant?" And ACDC's TNT song?
"Oi!" is also used as you (US) guys might use "Yo!" - it's a colloquialism - used to catch the attention of someone or signify for quiet - it's basically a "call-out" for attention or order, or pretty much just like saying "hey, you."
Anyway Alex is lucky you gave him such a detailed line by line - I sure as heck can't add anymore at this stage. Alex, you cleared up a lot of stuff. Look forward to the new draft.
Ha, you're right! I've never heard of the "word" before. It came up as a misspelling when I typed out my post in WORD, also. Just looked it up. It's of British origin, and I was not familiar with it.
Sorry, Alex...my bad!
It's defintely a word I'd never use, and in your example, LC, I'd just write, "The baby has quieted down. Again, in WORD, "quietened" is not aknowledged as a word.
Alex, I look forward to your next draft. You were treading that fine line between confusion and intrigue, and only the brave go there, so kudos for that.
Hmm, quietened quieten. I thought these were words - I could be wrong, haha. No worries about that. I'm from Australia, and we share the British spelling I believe.
Thanks so much for the critique, Dreamscale. You have helped me a lot. I am actually writing the whole thing again with a different approach, taking into account all of the criticism I have received. I hope to simplify and explain it, and see if it stills stands as an interesting story. I agree with you about a lot of the dialogue - I was trying to create a specific mood, but I can see now that it is too confused. Character intention and motivation will be significantly clearer in this draft too.
I will read and give my take on everybody's work as soon as I can, thanks for helping me out.
I must say when I was reading the script, I thought Claude was lying about having a wife...and it began to become a little..."gay" when John started making a "candle lit dinner"....Was he trying to replace Carol or something? And note to writer: believe me, we're not as smart as you think we are....You need to be a little more clearer.
Robert Frost - “Half the world is composed of people who have something to say and can’t, and the other half who have nothing to say and keep on saying it.”
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