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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Sci Fi and Fantasy Scripts  ›  The Legion of Super-Heroes Moderators: bert
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  Author    The Legion of Super-Heroes  (currently 2357 views)
Don
Posted: March 28th, 2010, 11:52am Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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The Legion of Super-Heroes by Richard Ashcraft - Sci Fi - DC Comics' super-teens come to life in this futuristic, high action script.  Their origin, first mission, recruitment drive, and battles with the Fatal Five are revamped.  A must read for every Legion fan. 153 pages - doc, format


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TheRichcraft
Posted: March 29th, 2010, 7:02pm Report to Moderator
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Well, here it is.  The best script I ever wrote.  Full of action, characters, and characterization.  Please let me know what you think.  Thanks.
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jwent6688
Posted: March 29th, 2010, 10:33pm Report to Moderator
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Rich, you've been quite active on the boards of late so i thought I'd take a quick gander at this.

Excuse me cuz it's late and must be heading off to fall down a pass out soon. I read the first 10 pages. Well formatted for someone writing with word. you did well there.

You don't have a hook in your first ten though, IMO. Gotta sink your teeth into your audience right off, especially if you want us to go through 153 pgs.

I didn't like the way you referred to them as their alter egos in action sentences and then their super hero names in dialogue. makes it hard to follow.

didn't find anything bad about the first ten it just didn't entice me to read 153.  Then again was never a huge legion fan.

Gotta make that beginning more intriguing tho. 90% of the time, 10 pgs is all you'll get.

good luck



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rendevous
Posted: March 30th, 2010, 12:31am Report to Moderator
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Didn't you used to be in The Verve? No? Oh shit.


Out Of Character - updated


New Used Car

Green

Right Back

The Deuce - OWC - now on STS

Other scripts here
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TheRichcraft
Posted: March 30th, 2010, 8:50pm Report to Moderator
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Jwent, I can understand the confusion over the names.  I debated with myself over using their real names, but with 12 heroes, five villains, and various secondary characters, I tried to do the readers a favor and just use the heroic names.

I used Live Wire in the beginning since he was the only charter member not to be born with super-powers.  I used his viewpoint for the readers to identify with since they needed someone to relate to the futuristic society.

I'm sorry that I didn't grab you in 10 pages or less (believe I tried), but I felt it was important to introduce the characters the way that I did.  Things really happen at the Magno Ball tournament where the assassin strikes.  I tried to start the script there, but the exposition dialogue was way too much.  Almost like the start of Back to the Future.  The introduction I added made for a much better segue.

I know 153 pages is a lot, but it is filled with high action and good characterization.  I hope that you reread it again.  At least in parts.

Rendevous, no, I wasn't with the verve.  
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dogglebe
Posted: March 31st, 2010, 3:44pm Report to Moderator
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I began reading this script and was quickly able to see why it's 153 pages long.  Every character talks and talk and talks. It reminded of the LSHs from the 1960s where the characters used their powers for one or two panels and then spent the next six or eight panels explaining themselves.  You have to cut this down.  A lot!  The first 25 pages could be reduced to ten or twelve pages.  This mean that the entire script can be rewritten and reduced to sixty or eighty pages.

You don't need to reveal every characters' powers and origin as you introduce them. Leave us guessing for a bit.  When Live Wire sees Triad (originally known as 'Triplicate Girl' for you trivia buffs) working with only two 'bodies' there's no reason to explain the third. It's not his business.  Or ours, until it's time to play superhero.

Learn to tighten your script. Cut the origins down.  Cut everything down!


Quoted Text
            SATURN GIRL
  It’s all right, Arn.  We’re used to it.  People always
  leave when they see our emblems.  Not too many
  people want to be near us telepaths.                                                       
                                   
Saturn Girl smiles.

          SATURN GIRL
  The Earth criminals sure won’t once I become a
  Science Police Officer here.


can be cut to:


Quoted Text
            SATURN GIRL
   My people are used to the fact that people don't
   like telepaths.  Especially criminals....


Keep it short.


Phil
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TheRichcraft
Posted: March 31st, 2010, 6:09pm Report to Moderator
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Phil, funny that you should mention the 1960s Legionnaires.  I used to have most of their adventures in comic book form.  I loved the silver age comics because they had more dialogue.  I guess that shows in my scrpts.

While I agree with you on maybe tightening the dialogue a lot, I disagree on not introducing the characters in the way that I did.  I wanted the readers to know that both Garth and Luornu were superhumans.  The fact that Garth was a twin and Lu was a "triplet" allowed Brande to play matchmake a little bit.

i really don't have the heart in me to try and revamp this script.  It got read by Steven Spielberg, which will just have to do.  Of course, my agent told me that
Spielberg read it, but agents sometimes lie to spare their clients' feelings.  So who knows?  If my script's exposure here leads to a real Hollywood film, then I felt that I've done my job.

If any of you Legion fans out there want a live action movie made, contact Warner Brothers in every way that you can and let your voices be heard.  Thanks, Richard
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ABennettWriter
Posted: March 31st, 2010, 7:26pm Report to Moderator
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The Legion of Super-Heroes is a boring title.
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rendevous
Posted: March 31st, 2010, 7:29pm Report to Moderator
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LOSH. I've bin on da lash. And I'm a bit of a lush

Legion of... Sounds a bit like that croppy film wit Sean "Yesh" Connery in to me. But what do I know?

R


Out Of Character - updated


New Used Car

Green

Right Back

The Deuce - OWC - now on STS

Other scripts here
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dogglebe
Posted: March 31st, 2010, 8:04pm Report to Moderator
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This is based on a decades-old team of superheroes; it's not an original name.

Rich I don't know if Spielberg really read your script or not.  Did you receive any response?  With problems I've mentioned, I think it will a difficult sale.

Something else (that I didn't comment on earlier) was that I found your dialog to be very on-the-nose and artificial.  This, too, made me think of the LSH of yesteryear; all comic books were like this way back when.  They're not so much like this today.

Is it necessary to start out with the origin?  I don't think so.  You could've just written a script that takes place after the group has formed.  This way, their origin could've just been a small chapter in the entire story.


Phil
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TheRichcraft
Posted: March 31st, 2010, 11:14pm Report to Moderator
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I still have a letter from my agent stating that he had read it.  Of course, after watching a few episodes of Entourage and seeing Bebe on the Frasier show, I'm not so sure that it's genuine.  Still, I decided to accept it as a prize.

As for not using the origin in my script, we could use the original one in which Brande's life is threatened.  Only with Apparition and Triad on board the rocket ship to Earth along with Saturn Girl, Live Wire, and Cosmic Boy.  That is something to consider.  I guess Brance could introduce each Legionnaire and explain how his or her power helped to defeat the murderers.  But told in a tight flashback with fewer words.

I'm not really interested in doing a rewrite.  I just want to make people want to get a Legion film made by Warner Brothers.  So if you are true Legion fans, let the powers-that-be know what you want.  Thanks, Richard
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abelorfao
Posted: April 4th, 2010, 12:28am Report to Moderator
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Hello, The Richcraft. I've finished reading your script and I'll post my thoughts below.

The script was well-written from a spelling and grammatical aspect and your descriptions during the action sequences were simple, straightforward, and easy to follow. The scenes featuring the Legionnaires in battle were easily the highlights of the script. I think there's a fun and adventurous superhero story hidden away in this screenplay, but I think it needs a rewrite to bring it out into the open.

The main problem I had with the script is the same one dogglebe mentioned in his post. When I first sat down to read a 153-page superhero script, I was expecting several lengthy and exciting battles.  Instead, I discovered the film has just four action set pieces to fill two-and-a-half hours. The bulk of the script, meanwhile, is spent listening to the characters talk and talk and talk. In fact, almost all of the issues I had with the script come down to problems related to the dialogue.

There were several moments, especially early in the script and during the audition sequence, where your attempts to provide information to the audience seemed a little too blunt. On Page 10, for example, the way Arn Kwin flatly states R. J. Brande is the richest man on Earth comes across rather clunky. On Page 80, Chameleon actually begins one of his lines with "As you know..." which only highlights how his monologue is nothing but exposition. You need to watch out for these moments as they could come across like those 1950's sci-fi films where seemingly intelligent characters feel the need to repeatedly tell each other things they already know.

There were also numerous instances where characters verbally stated what we could or should be seeing for ourselves. On Page 17, R. J. Brande says Mano is starting to free himself from Cosmic Boy's magnetic grip even though we see Mano start to free himself from Cosmic Boy's magnetic grip. On Page 55, Live Wire says Triad is safely out of the way even though we see Triad move safely out of the way. In keeping with the 1950's sci-fi film analogy, these moments reminded me of the characters who feel compelled to point out the gigantic monster destroying the city even though it's conducting its rampage just down the street.

There were also several moments where a character's internal monologue says what he is going to do only to be immediately followed by the promised action. On Page 54, Triad tells herself she needs to materialize her other two selves above the Persuader. We then see Triad's other two selves materialize above Persuader. On the next page, Triad tells herself she needs to get her other two selves away from Persuader before he attacks them. We then see the other two Triads dematerialize before Persuader attacks them. While this is a common format used in comic books, I'm not sure how well this would translate to the film medium.

A related problem was how often third-hand dialogue was used to explain very significant aspects of the plot. On Pages 23 and 24, Nolla Atern and R. J. Brande explain both Mano's backstory and how he set up the assassination. On Page 51, Cosmic Boy and Saturn Girl explain Persuader's backstory and detail his superpowers. On Page 54, it's left to Saturn Girl to explain why Persuader wanted the crystal. The worst example of this comes on Page 113 where, instead of an exciting action sequence, you simply have Marla Latham say the Emerald Empress has broken Mano, Persuader, Tharok, and Validus out of prison. Don't tell the audience these things, show them.

There were also several instances where the dialogue repeated information we already know. On Page 36, Apparition says Saturn Girl left her family when she was five immediately after Saturn Girl says she left her family when she was five. On Page 96, Brainiac says he has taken away the Emerald Empress's power by cutting her off from the Emerald Eye immediately after he says he can take away her power by cutting her off from the Emerald Eye.

There were also numerous times when the characters seemed to take a circuitous route to express very simple and straightforward ideas. On Pages 58 to 61, R. J. Brande takes three-and-a-half pages to tell the Legion they will be sponsored by the United Planets provided they are willing to accept new recruits. On Pages 88 to 90, Andromeda takes three pages to tell Brainiac she wants to help find a cure for the lead poisoning which affects her people.

When all of these problems with the dialogue are combined, they cause an artificially lengthy screenplay which has several problems with pacing and rhythm. To echo dogglebe's sentiments, I wouldn't be surprised if you could cut dozens of pages off the script solely by simplifying the necessary dialogue and eliminating the unimportant and superfluous information.

A shining example of the pacing and rhythm problems is the audition sequence which, at over 25 pages in length, seems very excessive and seriously threatens to bring the film's momentum to a grinding halt. Using the one-page-per-minute guideline, the audience is being asked to spend nearly a half-hour of screentime -- roughly one-fifth of the entire film -- watching a parade of new characters appear, orally relate their backstories, and demonstrate their superpowers. There's no reason such a scene should take more than five to ten minutes, especially since much of the information relayed is irrelevant to the story at hand.

I realize how difficult it must sound to have someone say you need to remove so much dialogue and slash dozens of pages from your script because I went through the same epiphany myself. When I first started writing and had absolutely no idea what I was doing, I once wrote a rough draft of a screenplay which ended up -- as incredible as it seems -- one hundred and sixty-seven pages long!

I couldn't believe it. What could I do? After all, I had lovingly crafted each scene until it was absolutely perfect. Well, I set the script aside and worked on other projects. When I returned to the script, a little older and a lot wiser, I immediately realized I could cut down much of the dialogue as well as eliminate entire characters and scenes without affecting the story. The result? My "perfect" 167-page script was whittled down to a tighter and more manageable 96 pages.

Curiously, the one aspect of your script which did feel rushed and incomplete concerns the antagonists. The Emerald Empress, the impetus for the climactic battle, does not make an appearance until three-fifths of the way through the script. The Fatal Five, meanwhile, do not unite on screen until we are four-fifths of the way into the story. Even worse, after finally appearing together for the first time, the five villains are decisively beaten in a span of ten pages.

While the battle was well-written, the Fatal Five hadn't been developed enough for the climax to be as exciting as it should have. These characters may be well-developed in the minds of those who enjoy the comic book series, but anyone unfamiliar with the material (and I would argue this group would make up the majority of the potential audience) will likely dismiss them as unworthy antagonists.

The only plot point I had a major issue with (although this may be an aspect of the original comic book series, which I am not familiar with) was the reason cited for the need of a Legion of Super-Heroes. Yes, the group did perform admirably and were able to capture Mano, but why does R. J. Brande say Earth is threatened by evil and powerful aliens? There's been no evidence to suggest Mano's attack was part of a larger trend or that the planet is threatened by invasion.

Furthermore, if the Science Police are now accepting super-powered agents like Saturn Girl, why don't Nolla Atern and R. J. Brande use their considerable leverage to open the ranks to the rest of the group and any others with similar powers? Surely the President of Earth and the planet's richest man would have some influence. This question only nagged at me more when Nolla Atern arranged for the Science Police to train the group. If the existing security force is going to train them anyway, shouldn't the group just join the Science Police proper?

Although you do start the story by telling us the date and giving us a flyover of Metropolis, I wonder if you should use the very start of the script to provide a little more detail about the universe we will inhabit. After all, if this script were to be filmed, there's a very good chance a majority of viewers would know little or nothing about the source material. (I had no idea, for example, what Valor / Lar Gand referred to.) This could also give you a chance to use television and newspaper reports (or whatever the 30th century versions of theses media are) to relay necessary exposition in a quick and unobtrusive manner. You may also want to reconsider the scene at the end where Live Wire asks Cosmic Girl out on a date, as it came across as an odd way to end the film especially after R. J. Brande's closing narration.

I'll admit to having difficulty keeping track of the legion members when the characters were referred to by their superhero names in the action but by their real names in the dialogue. There were a few points, especially in the beginning, where I had to double back and check to see who was being referred to. Then again, this is more of an ease of reading issue as this won't have any effect on a filmed version of the story.

There were a few instances where the descriptions seemed a little scant but, with your script being an adaptation of an existing work, this was more of a case of being unfamiliar with the source material. Still, these thin descriptions may color how someone without knowledge of the original comics could view the script.

I understand you're not interested in a rewrite at the moment but, even if you don't want to invest any more time in this script, I hope the points I raised can help you in the future.
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TheRichcraft
Posted: April 4th, 2010, 10:14pm Report to Moderator
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Abel, I do thank you for reading the script.  It is in fact 14 years old.  The Legion's history has changed so much in that time that I don't think that I will rewrite it.  XS and Andromeda are no longer members.  In fact, they never existed in the recent reboot.  So I am reluctant to rewrite.  If it arouses interest in a live-action Legion film, then I felt that I did my job posting it here.

Also, one needs DC Comics' permission to write screenplays about their characters.  I did not know this when I wrote the script.  I simply thought that if I sold it, I could get interest started.  Now I know better.

Actually, I trimmed down the ending by several pages.  Originally Saturn Girl was making her observations when the Legionniares received their medallions.  Love was in the air, and the ending reflected that.  Also, she and Live Wire were the first Legionnaires to get married, so I put their romance into the script.

As for joining the Science Police, Shvaughn Erin was already established as the Legion's SP liason, so I merely followed the Legion's history in that.  What I did change was make the applicants be SP officers or cadets of their home world.

When the Legion held auditions, none of the applicants were trained albeit in the use of their powers.  Suddenly they were on Legion missions the same day that they joined the group.  I made them SP officers in order to avoid more scenes of them having to be trained.

I'll admit that I tend to repeat the action shown on the screen or I have the characters broadcast it beforehand.  (See my Hawkins and Dover series.)  I'm trying to watch that, but the comic-book reader in me has a hard time.   Now when I had Brande see Mano freeing himself, I was trying to show that Brande was watching everything.  He was impressed by the teens' actions, especially after the adults had failed to capture Mano.

And the speech from Brande about potential invasions was an in-joke.  In the comics, it was revealed that Brande wasn't an Earthling, but he was really a Durlan who had become rich on Earth.  (In fact, Brande was revealed to be Chameleon's father, but this has since been changed.)  I was trying to appeal to the Legion readers, but since you non-Legion readers didn't know the joke, it was over your heads.

Still, I'm proud of my script.  I wrote it within a week with the barest of outlines.  The story just flowed out of me.  It's not perfect (I agree about the Fatal Five--Tharok was the leader, but the Empress had the power to free them), but with so many characters, I don't think I did such a bad job.  But I have improved with exposition dialogue in my other scripts._  
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