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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Scripts  ›  Teaching With Violence Moderators: bert
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  Author    Teaching With Violence  (currently 6302 views)
Don
Posted: May 2nd, 2011, 4:34pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Teaching With Violence by James Williams (jwent668 - Short, Horror - As a bartender waits for her ride after closing time, she invades the privacy of a mad man who enjoys teaching others lessons. 12 pages - pdf, format


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Dressel
Posted: May 2nd, 2011, 5:06pm Report to Moderator
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James,

I'm not sure I've read anything from you before, but you're a very solid writer.  No problems with the formatting, and you dialogue was very clean.

Overall, your story worked for the most part.  I didn't buy how quickly Sarah looked at the phone though; I think you should have set that up better.  For example, I used to work at a place with a lost and found and people always made it almost a game to look through people's cell phones.  They open it up, look through them, and share.  So maybe Emily could suggest something like that before she leaves.  I don't know.  As it is, it seems to happen so quickly.

Next thing, I think it just goes on a little too long.  You had me pretty tense for awhile there, but then you threw in the pretty stereotypical cop and it got a little stale.  I think you should have found a way to resolve it with either just Sarah or maybe Emily.  Most cops wouldn't respond that fast anyway.

Finally, the ending left a bad taste in my mouth.  It felt like Saw, if Jigsaw cared about lying.  It's a little weak, in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong though, I liked the set-up and where you went following that, BUT it just kind of petered out towards the end.  I'll be interesting to see how it worked for others though.

But solid work nonetheless.  Good job!

Random Notes

p.1 - add an apostrophe to "Its been a good night"

p.4 - add an apostrophe to "Its okay."

-Matt


CHECK OUT MY WEB SERIES

The Pilot is Dead

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screenrider
Posted: May 2nd, 2011, 5:12pm Report to Moderator
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I'm not gonna over-think this one.  Bottom line, I enjoyed it.   Lots of tension.   I'm glad Sarah got to live with a lesson learned.   Had a "The Environmentalist" vibe to it.    


Good job.
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Dreamscale
Posted: May 2nd, 2011, 6:59pm Report to Moderator
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James, my man!  Just read this.

I think it's pretty good, for the most part.  It does have an "The Environmentalist" feel and overall theme to it.

Couple things to help...

Like Dressel said, there are a few missing apostrophes, as well as missing commas. A few orphans that could easily be executed.

The overall writing was pretty good, but for me, a bit sparse, and I say that because I don't think you properly set your scenes, in terms of visually, and because of that, i couldn't really get a feel for the look of the bar and the spatial reality of what took place.

Just my personally opinion, but it doesn't sound like any bar I'm familiar with, at least not in OH, with all the windows and a glass front door.  It doesn't seem realistic how she cold see and hear him so easily when she was inside and he was out, as well as her being able to see him across the street.

I think you missed a number of Slugs and incorrectly used some Mini Slugs where they didn't quite work.

Here are some things I noted.

Page 1 - Maybe I'm wrong and Kevin can chime in, but I find it hard to believe that 2 young girls are the only ones closing the place.

I also find it very hard to believe that such a small bar (based on what i perceive it to look like) could yield $620 in tips fro 1 night, and I also doubt that counting the money would be the last thing they do (as in, cleaning everything up, washing glasses, putting alcohol away, etc.).  

Page 2 where the 1 girls leaves and drives away.  Yeah, it can be filmed from inside, but the action's actually outside.  I think you should have left the bar here and followed the girl leaving, maybe even showing the guy's car parked in the lot and him sitting inside, watching.

Page 5 - You use "ACROSS THE STREET" as a Mini, but again, it's an EXT. scene and I don't think it quite works the way you have it here.

Page 6 - You write that Sarah's phone rings, and its a text from the freak, but how would he have her #?  You also need a "BACK TO SCENE" here.

"The latch is frozen." - I don't understand this.  Is it winter?  If so, I'd make this known earlier somehow.

Page 8 - You have the man speaking in "O.S.", but based on what you wrote, we're watching him rifle through drawers, so my question is, what are we seeing while he's speaking O.S.?

Page 11 - I'm assuming the man fired the shots at Rick, but I think you should make this a bit clearer.

Taking a fire extinguisher to the face is a big deal and I doubt Rick would recover so quickly.

A few places where I think you incorrectly linked lines that should stand on their own...some other little stuff.

But, all in all, a good read, and an above average script for me.  Good job!  Hope this helps.





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jwent6688
Posted: May 2nd, 2011, 7:08pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks to Don for posting. I haven't posted anything outside of an OWC of late. I thought this had some interesting sinister qualities though. I also, plan on using this guy in a trilogy os shorts maybe to reveal more about him.

Also, thanks to Janet and Kevin for giving this a pre-read. I tighten it down about two pages per thier suggestions. Feeling a bit under the weather today so I will be back to respond in a day or two. Thanks for the reads. All good points that need addressed.

James


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leitskev
Posted: May 2nd, 2011, 9:25pm Report to Moderator
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I read this before James posted, so not sure if anything changed. But I thought it was rock solid writing and outstanding skill at building tension. James got game.

As for Jeff's questions; you would be surprised the tips two cute girls can make in a little bar if it's busy. The numbers worked. Also, we used to count tips last. Nice to sit down and do it after the hard part of cleaning.

Two girls alone...well, I never let my girls do that, but there are places that do. So not unreasonable. Especially if the neighborhood is ok. Plus I think she was expecting her boyfriend.

I am surprised more people didn't ask about the 151. But he got that right too. For a time, just the liquor would burn. Eventually clothing would get real hot and possibly ignite, but not right away.
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Dreamscale
Posted: May 2nd, 2011, 9:39pm Report to Moderator
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PK, Kev, hoped you'd pop in...so...tell me..how in the world would 2 girls make $620 in 1 night in tips?  If that's legit, they're making over $70,00 each in tips alone in a year, at 5 days/week, 52 weeks/year.  That's crazy!!  Not saying it couldn't happen ever, but this kind of stuff doesn't fly for me.  What would the bar gross be?  $6,000?  I want to own this bar or just be a waitress...  
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leitskev
Posted: May 2nd, 2011, 10:05pm Report to Moderator
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When I read it, I think he had it at 210 each. Which is more reasonable. Here's the thing though Jeff. They need it to be a busy night, and it won't be that busy 5 nights.

15 years ago I used to make over 200 every night. I worked my ass off though, and did only 3 or 4 nights a week.

A hot girl could, inflation, 300 would be no prob. They would have a doorman.

And the bar gross is much less. Lets say you walk up and get a bud light from a cute girl. Costs you 3 bucks. Are you tipping 15%? Of course not. You're leaving at least a buck, maybe 2.

When business was good at my place, we had 2 rooms so 2 bars; 5 bar tenders. We'd do 5 to 6 k sales combined. And the bartenders would make around 200 each. This was on a weekend, which was Thurs, Fri or Sat. And our prices were very cheap. 2.25 for a bud light at the time.
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Electric Dreamer
Posted: May 3rd, 2011, 9:32am Report to Moderator
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Hey James,

Nice to read new material from you.
This is a solid read, but there were a few sticking points for me.
Nothing that totally derailed me, but did lessen my enjoyment of your work.

It's kinda an unwritten rule in the service industry, women don't close alone.
Especially in places where alcohol is served, there's always at least one guy.
A simple insertion of "Jack's kid had to go to the hospital" or something would help.

I didn't buy Sarah's lack of intensity with the operator.
I like the visual of the man on the pay phone and the lights on Sarah.
She's a deer in headlights, literally, I think she'd say her life's in danger.
He's a pervert that mutilates girls and he's after me! I have his smartphone!
I also think Sarah waits to long too say she's called the police.
That's typically the first thing a victim will say to deter an attacker.
Yet here, your protag withholds that information for a page or two.

I think the back door text generates more suspense if we get it earlier.
It's a nice bonding moment for the audience with your protag.
Then the text serves a dual purpose of exposition and suspense.

The big letdown for me was Sarah's rejected offer to be in a video.
I didn't see it coming and I got excited by the prospect. Really excited.
Instead, we got the inadequate police response.
Had Sarah been smarter with the 911 operator, we wouldn't have that.

I like this script James, you put together a pretty stout scenario.
With some tweaking I think you can facilitate it's power rather than neuter it.

Keep writing and rewriting!

Regards,
E.D.


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Electric Dreamer  -  May 3rd, 2011, 4:36pm
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B.C.
Posted: May 3rd, 2011, 4:25pm Report to Moderator
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Really enjoyed this, although I don't have much to add to the above. All good suggestions to improve it. Although only slightly, it's pretty solid as it is.

Good stuff.  
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jwent6688
Posted: May 3rd, 2011, 5:00pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dressel

Overall, your story worked for the most part.  I didn't buy how quickly Sarah looked at the phone though; I think you should have set that up better.  For example, I used to work at a place with a lost and found and people always made it almost a game to look through people's cell phones.  They open it up, look through them, and share.  So maybe Emily could suggest something like that before she leaves.  I don't know.  As it is, it seems to happen so quickly.


Thanks for reading Dressel. I went with Emily being beat so she wouldn't wait around for Sarah. Then Sarah's looks at the phone out of boredom.


Quoted from dressel
Next thing, I think it just goes on a little too long.  You had me pretty tense for awhile there, but then you threw in the pretty stereotypical cop and it got a little stale.  I think you should have found a way to resolve it with either just Sarah or maybe Emily.  Most cops wouldn't respond that fast anyway.


I would if I could think of a way for Sarah to get herself out of this. I think his intentions were clear to just scare her, rather then harm her.


Quoted from dressel
Finally, the ending left a bad taste in my mouth.  It felt like Saw, if Jigsaw cared about lying.  It's a little weak, in my opinion.


I can see that. I wasn't really trying to mimic jigsaw here. To me, the man likes to teach lessons to common sinners. The ones he thinks aren't beyond saving. The original title of this was The Preacher. It had a shitty twist at the end, so I scaled it back and renamed it.

Thanks for the read.... I'm glad you liked it...

James




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jwent6688
Posted: May 3rd, 2011, 5:02pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from screenrider
I'm not gonna over-think this one.  Bottom line, I enjoyed it.   Lots of tension.   I'm glad Sarah got to live with a lesson learned.   Had a "The Environmentalist" vibe to it.


Glad you liked it Screen. Yes, I'm becoming a one trick pony here. A girlfriend who enjoys my scripts told me that i have an underlying hatred of women. I'm gonna have to look into that...


James


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Dreamscale
Posted: May 3rd, 2011, 5:04pm Report to Moderator
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BTW, James, I did not like the title at all.  Just doesn't have a good ring to it...otherwise, a pretty good effort, IMO.
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leitskev
Posted: May 3rd, 2011, 5:09pm Report to Moderator
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James, I was meaning to say, you know I liked the story, but I hate the title, and not thrilled about the log. Good work the rest though.
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jwent6688
Posted: May 3rd, 2011, 5:19pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Like Dressel said, there are a few missing apostrophes, as well as missing commas. A few orphans that could easily be executed.


Jeff, thanks for reading. Glad you liked it. I agree with everything you say except orphans. I'm not a fan of that argument unless you struggle with a page limit. If a sentence sounds good IMO, I'm not gonna remove one word just to save a space


Quoted from Dreamscale
Just my personally opinion, but it doesn't sound like any bar I'm familiar with, at least not in OH, with all the windows and a glass front door.  It doesn't seem realistic how she cold see and hear him so easily when she was inside and he was out, as well as her being able to see him across the street.


There's a Billy's Martini bar in Mentor i go to. I didn't want to use that exact name. I imagined this place when i wrote it. Its a pretty cool place, and yes, the girls can make $300 on a weekend. Though its rare, i used to date a bartender... Never again.

  

Quoted from Dreamscale
Page 2 where the 1 girls leaves and drives away.  Yeah, it can be filmed from inside, but the action's actually outside.  I think you should have left the bar here and followed the girl leaving, maybe even showing the guy's car parked in the lot and him sitting inside, watching.[/quote}

I can see that point. I really wanted to stay at the front door when Emily drives off. She scans the parking lot.

[quote=Dreamscale]Page 5 - You use "ACROSS THE STREET" as a Mini, but again, it's an EXT. scene and I don't think it quite works the way you have it here.[quote=Dreamscale]

That one I was really on the fence about. Its really not a slug but a point of view. Its something new I'm trying. To give it emphasis and stand it alone instead of tossing it into an action sentence with CAPS. I might redo that one.

[quote=Dreamscale]Page 6 - You write that Sarah's phone rings, and its a text from the freak, but how would he have her #?  You also need a "BACK TO SCENE" here.


Another experiment. Instead of

BACK TO SCENE

BANG! BANG! BANG! - I just wrote BANG! BANG! BANG! to scare the reader a bit. Gt them in the feel of Sarah's fear at that moment. It was a shot. I may never do it again.


Quoted from Dreamscale
"The latch is frozen." - I don't understand this.  Is it winter?  If so, I'd make this known earlier somehow.


I agree with this.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Page 8 - You have the man speaking in "O.S.", but based on what you wrote, we're watching him rifle through drawers, so my question is, what are we seeing while he's speaking O.S.?


I tried to show he was dipping his head behind the bar while Sarah struggles with her reastraints. Again, could be too much direction, but i thought it would work well that way.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Page 11 - I'm assuming the man fired the shots at Rick, but I think you should make this a bit clearer.

Yes, that could be alittle clearer.


Quoted from Dreamscale
Taking a fire extinguisher to the face is a big deal and I doubt Rick would recover so quickly.


Quite right. I will change that.

Thanks again Jeff for the detailed review. I'm glad you liked it

James



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