How Brown is Your Bread? by B.D. MacLeod (B.D.) - Short, Comedy - A young nazi and a black panther get into increasingly heated battle in a supermarket over white vs black food. 10 pages. - pdf, format

this one was a mixed bag for me.

ill be honest with you. when i first started reading this, i thought it was an idea that had little to no legs to stand on. after finishing it, i realized i was wrong.

to my surprise i laughed when the nazi shouted yellatos and i loved how both the nazi and panther hated white chocolate. i hate that shit too and im really glad someone else pointed that out.

however, this script needs some good revising. i think it goes on way too long. the dialogue is just back and forth, back and forth, and wears the script down. furthermore the dialogue seems too deep at times. its almost as though the characters are delivering a PSA.

i honestly think a lot of this needs to be scaled back and refined. i hated this script at the beginning. i thought it was awful. plus you say the dreaded N word and i dont think its warranted in this situation. i also didnt think the script was remotely funny until the two characters started shooting up the food. even then, i just rolled my eyes until the bananas thing.

not sure what to make of the ending either. you seem to imply that the nazi is right with the white is right line. its as though he hasnt learned a thing.

furthermore, the nazi character is a bit too extreme. everyone hates nazi's. although panthers can be assholes too, id be willing to sit down with a panther and have a healthy discussion/debate. wouldnt do that with a nazi. i think you meant for both to come off as equally prejudice, but let's face it, a nazi is a whole lot worse (and a panther has a reason to be prejudice).

i would love to see a script where a white gangster and a black gangster go into a store. the white guy buys all white foods and the black guy buys all black foods. when they go to the check out counter, they see the candy stand, and both agree that white chocolate is fucking disgusting. and then they go home and cook a cake with both white and brown ingredients before having passionate, sweaty man-on-man sex. okay, just kidding about the last part. but you get the idea.

Yeah, this one was kind of a mixed bag for me, too.

In some parts, it was good and it made me think, but for the larger part, it was too out there to take seriously.  It was an interesting idea, but the execution left a lot to be desired.

Plus, I was a little confused as to the ending, too.  I didn't really get it.  I don't know if the characters learned a lesson or not.

And then you also end it on like eight lines of dialogue from minor, almost useless  characters.

But for the record, I love white chocolate.  I love regular dark chocolate, too.  I love any kind of chocolate, really.

So, while it was an interesting concept, it still has a couple miles to go before I can say that I liked it.

Hey Green, thanks for reading the script. I'm glad you liked the overall idea but your criticism seems vague and unhelpful sometimes. Sorry to critique the critic, but exactly want about the execution "left a lot to be desired". How would you have liked to see it be executed? I mean to say there's no sure way of going forth with soemthing like this, so I just went!

I'm glad it made you think in some parts but I think you're reading a little too much into it? The whole thing is just an experiment in absurdity really, not to be taken too seriously.

And don't worry about the ending so much. Again, reading a little too much into it (I mean the Panther blushes in response to something the Nazi said for pete's sake!).

The characters at the end have the use of "a little extra" as well as putting a cap on it. It's a break away from always seeing the two main, familiar characters go at it all the time and hopefully provides the reader with a little top off snicker. Readers might think it's funny depending on their mood or how good they feel at the moment, I suppose (let's just face it, that's often the way it works, don't you think?)

Anyway, again thanks for reading. I'll try to get around to reading and critiquing one of yours here soon.

Peace out.

Hey albinopenguin.

Thanks for taking the time to read it. What can I say, I suppose humor is in the mind of the beholder. Everyone I've shown it to outside this site said they laughed out loud at a number or parts, but I guess they knew me better and got my style of humor a little more therefore. Thanks for showing me another side of reality out there tho  

One problem with your critique is that it's somewhat vague and therefore unhelpful. I may agree that it went on a little long (it could very well be just a 5 minute or less sketch, which is what it kind of started out as), but when you say that the dialogue is just "back and forth", I don't quite understand what that's supposed to mean, really I'm just asking for an elaboration, more information.  To me, that's the way dialogue is supposed to go , esp when there's really just two charaters representing two polarities (kind of, I actually do see your point about the panther not really being the proper equivalent to the nazi. It is sensible insomuch as it's all a part of the general nonsense, however.)

Also, you mention it needs to be "scaled back" but don't really follow up on that with a clear and helpful explanation of what supposedly needs to be scaled back. The possible racism? Racial jokes come off just sounding racist? A more sympathetic nazi (har har)? Getting rid of the nazi altogether? shortening the script in general? There's a lot "scaled back" could possibly mean. It would help if you were clear.

Well thanks for reading anyway, glad you laughed at at least one part.  I'll get around to reading and reviewing one of yours on here soon.

Peace out.

Hey BD,

This kind of feels like a one-note joke that just keeps on and on. I'd think this would work better at 5 pages than 12, as it's more of a skit than a story. There's only so many white or brown products they can keep picking up before we just tire of it, as nothing new is added.

In terms of the execution, well there are a number of typos and mistakes in here. You've also got quite a bit of awkward phrasing and extraneous words which really slows down the read. Try and cut out every bit of useless information here and see how much space you save.

I don't think you should take the attitude that the ending doesn't matter that much, as the ending is the most important piece of a story. It's the last visual people will have and should tie everything up or end on some kind of high. I agree the ending was strange here, as it was just out of left field and not related to anything that came before it (who cares if he only calls him on the phone or whatever that's about)

The overall idea is okay, although I have seen it done before on Mad TV or one of those shows. Needs a good polish though and a stronger focus on the central idea, and know when a joke has been played out and not keep flogging it. Good luck with it though.

Cheers,
Tim.

Hi Trogan,

Well if you were watching this, the picking up of white and brown food would go by really quickly, maybe even in quick flash shots. I tried to arrange the action lines to convey this quick feel but maybe now that I think of it I could have used a "Montage:" slug, or just simply state in an action line that the following shots play out in quick, rapid succession. I guess I just thought that would be understood by the brief action lines. If you can imagine it in your head, these shots would go by really fast so I don't think that's much of a concern. I mean it's not set in stone how many times I should show each of them going for some kind of white or black food. Too long? maybe, but too short would also have been a problem so I tried to find the in-between.

I don't watch Mad TV that much (almost never really), so I don't know if what you're saying that you saw this on that show is true or not. What sketch was that?

And I'm not saying endings don't matter in general, I'm saying it doesn't matter so much here given the absurdist nature.  Actually, there is a denouement between the two mains if you notice, at least within an absurdist context.

Thanks for your input. I just re-read it and while there are a few mistakes (I'm assuming you mean related to grammar and that kind of thing?) and typos, there's really not all that much to worry about imo. I breeze through it myself when I read it, and my friends and family said it was a good, easy flowing read, but it's good to hear how others outside of that handle it.

Thanks for the read and taking the time to comment. I'll try to get around to reading something by you and reviewing it here shortly.

BD

On second thought Trogan, I'm not entirely convinced that you know or understand the central idea. Hence, I'm not sure how good your advice is to focus more strongly on it when you may not even know what it is. First, you need to elucidate what you think the central idea/theme is, or at least say more than just mentioning the phrase "central idea", and then you may tell me how much stronger I need to focus on it, that's if I actually have to focus any stronger on it at all.

Take care, and good luck with your shluck too.

I'm not really too worried if you think I know what the central theme is or not. What I'm saying is that this is way too long for what it is, and you need to focus on the main story and tell it more succinctly. We know the nazi wants the white food and the panther likes the black food. Going through a dozen or more different foods does not make it funnier, because there is no surpris element here. It is predictable, which equals boring. You need to be escalating the stakes throughout the story, like when they start shooting the food, but it takes too long to get here and just crawls along up until this point. Cut 4 or 5 pages from this and it will be much better.

You've got other problems in here you need to address as well. Like different characters with the same name when they are speaking, a sign which has dialogue attributed to it, typos, over description, camera directions and transitions etc.

The ending also feels incredibly forced and unrealistic, they solve their differences too easily. They make a complete 180 which in this short space of time is just not believable. Try experimenting with having a character make a slight, small change and growth rather than than something that is in direct contradiction with their whole identity.

Ok, well thx for clarifying your criticism a bit.  

Yes you're right that I could be doing a more progressive raising of the stakes throughout it and not just at the main conflict part. I could I guess add a little more to the section/scenes where there is just arms grabbing stuff, and then cut back on other things which aren't really needed.  

But the way I did the sign you say "has dialogue attributed to it" is perfectly ok. I've read a number of screenplays and I've seen information on signs being treated in the exact same way.  You're right about the character names getting mixed up; a bit of an oversight there. Perhaps a lesson in why you should give characters clear and distinct names. Lessen learned.  

Over description is debatable. When I was in film school I heard that you shouldn't go beyond 4 lines and that's what others, including some here, like to so say over again as well. I don't really think one should be so picky because all that's important is if it flows and is readable, which I think mine is (according to others too, not just myself -- and not just my mom lol, although I don't know how much more or less valuable their opinions are admittantly). I re-read my script and I did note some of the mistakes you and others mentioned.  But I'm not budging on the descriptions because for one, they're simply needed to give the bare minimum information about what the characters are doing etc. and two....it's really not all that much to read after all, is it?  Would it hurt you to read a few more lines of descripition? I wouldn't think so. I know these aren't supposed to be novels or whatev but really a few extra lines to read? Come on, it's just shouldn't be that worrisome.

About the ending, the whole thing is obviously not realisitc and not to be taken seriously. It's just for fun. The ending is, therefore, to be regarded just the same.  You can see the whole thing as perhaps a satire or parody of taking race relations and racial issues to absurd lengths, such as the idea that even food of a certain color is somehow represenative of your skin color which is of course nonsense. Don't worry too much about the realism of something like that and an ending where a nazi winks good-naturedly at a blushing black panther.  Though I do wish that WOULD happen in real life more! that would be awesome.

Quoted from BD But the way I did the sign you say "has dialogue attributed to it" is perfectly ok. I've read a number of screenplays and I've seen information on signs being treated in the exact same way.

  

Just wanted to touch on this. I've never seen a screenplay have it done this way, and I'm not sure where you have seen it, but it's not correct. You only use dialogue for spoken parts. If you want to have something physically appear on screen in written form, you can use an INSERT or even mention it in your description, but it should never, ever appear as dialogue.

Quoted Text Over description is debatable. When I was in film school I heard that you shouldn't go beyond 4 lines and that's what others, including some here, like to so say over again as well. I don't really think one should be so picky because all that's important is if it flows and is readable, which I think mine is (according to others too, not just myself -- and not just my mom lol, although I don't know how much more or less valuable their opinions are admittantly). I re-read my script and I did note some of the mistakes you and others mentioned.  But I'm not budging on the descriptions because for one, they're simply needed to give the bare minimum information about what the characters are doing etc. and two....it's really not all that much to read after all, is it?  Would it hurt you to read a few more lines of descripition? I wouldn't think so. I know these aren't supposed to be novels or whatev but really a few extra lines to read? Come on, it's just shouldn't be that worrisome.

If you learned this in film school, then why would you discount what they taught you? Rules and guidelines are there for a reason, you'd do well to adhere to them. Would it hurt to read a few more lines of description? Well it will hurt your script if they aren't needed. The whole idea is to tell your story in the most economical way possible. It seems the consensus on here is that your script is too long, so why wouldn't you want to tighten it up and make it a quicker read? You're better off getting in the habit that every word should count, so if you can remove pointless description then do so.

Quoted Text About the ending, the whole thing is obviously not realisitc and not to be taken seriously. It's just for fun. The ending is, therefore, to be regarded just the same.  You can see the whole thing as perhaps a satire or parody of taking race relations and racial issues to absurd lengths, such as the idea that even food of a certain color is somehow represenative of your skin color which is of course nonsense. Don't worry too much about the realism of something like that and an ending where a nazi winks good-naturedly at a blushing black panther.  Though I do wish that WOULD happen in real life more! that would be awesome.

It seems a bit like you are caught in two minds about what you want this to be. Is it a skit or a story? Much of the comedy and absurdity reads like a skit, but in a skit you normally just end with comedy, you don't have characters grow and learn a lesson. That often takes place in a story, and that's the ending you've gone for here. You can say that the whole thing is not meant to be taken seriously, but then what is it you are trying to achieve here? Which is why in my very first post I suggested you focus more on your central theme or idea here, and perhaps figure out what you want this to be, because at the moment you've got a few things going on and as a whole it doesn't gel very well IMHO at least.

To put it more clearly, if you want the absurdity and unrealistic vibe, you should go all the way with it and have an ending that is funny and keeps the same tone. If you want an ending where the characters learn a lesson and grow, then you should tone the rest of the story down and have it be at least in some way believable.

Quoted Text It seems the consensus on here is that your script is too long, so why wouldn't you want to tighten it up and make it a quicker read? You're better off getting in the habit that every word should count, so if you can remove pointless description then do so.

I think what's considered "pointless description" is often pretty arbitrarily and subjectively decided, often by people who must presume the writer doesn't know what he/she is doing and that the person not writing it does. I suppose the safest thing to do though is to be as to the bone as possible, but I still think people just need to lighten up over that. Besides, it's not always better. I've been reading some unproduced scripts here by people that I think are adhering to that rule of 4 lines or less and it makes their screenplays sound too hurried, simple, and choppy.

Quoted Text It seems a bit like you are caught in two minds about what you want this to be. Is it a skit or a story? Much of the comedy and absurdity reads like a skit, but in a skit you normally just end with comedy, you don't have characters grow and learn a lesson. That often takes place in a story, and that's the ending you've gone for here. You can say that the whole thing is not meant to be taken seriously, but then what is it you are trying to achieve here? Which is why in my very first post I suggested you focus more on your central theme or idea here, and perhaps figure out what you want this to be, because at the moment you've got a few things going on and as a whole it doesn't gel very well IMHO at least.

No I'm not caught in two minds.  It's a story, not a sketch. There's no more figuring out required, thx.  And I don't agree wtih much you say here unfortunately. A skit can have characters that grow and learn a lesson if they want it that way (think of the longer Kids In the Hall sketches that run like short films) or a story can just end on an absurd note if it wants to and not have characters learn any lesson or grow. My story, btw, is described by neither of these: it's not a skit, and even though it's mostly absurd it does end with the protagonist undergoing growth and learning something (if this goes over the reader's head, that's the reader's problem because I think this is very clear in the script). Who says that in order for the protagonist to learn a lesson I have to tone down the more absurd elements of the story?  The ending is actually not "serious", btw, but it does show growth for the protagonist, and it is also in line with the absurdist tone of the rest of the story -- what else could it be but an absurd resolution to an absurd conflict in the first place anyway?

Quoted from BD I think what's considered "pointless description" is often pretty arbitrarily and subjectively decided, often by people who must presume the writer doesn't know what he/she is doing and that the person not writing it does. I suppose the safest thing to do though is to be as to the bone as possible, but I still think people just need to lighten up over that. Besides, it's not always better. I've been reading some unproduced scripts here by people that I think are adhering to that rule of 4 lines or less and it makes their screenplays sound too hurried, simple, and choppy.

Just because some description is less than 4 lines doesn't necessarily make it good. It could be that the scripts you read were just poorly written. But if you have any descriptions that are going over 4 lines, you should be able to rewrite it in a clearer way with fewer words. It's not about you, it's about the people reading your script. Try this for an exercise. Pick out 100 feature length scripts and commit to reading every single one in the next month. Then see which scripts appeal to you more, the ones with long, dense blocks of text, or the ones with a lot of white space and that are a breeze to get through. There's a reason they taught you this at film school, why not just do it the way they tell you?

Quoted Text No I'm not caught in two minds.  It's a story, not a sketch. There's no more figuring out required, thx.  And I don't agree wtih much you say here unfortunately. A skit can have characters that grow and learn a lesson if they want it that way (think of the longer Kids In the Hall sketches that run like short films) or a story can just end on an absurd note if it wants to and not have characters learn any lesson or grow. My story, btw, is described by neither of these: it's not a skit, and even though it's mostly absurd it does end with the protagonist undergoing growth and learning something (if this goes over the reader's head, that's the reader's problem because I think this is very clear in the script). Who says that in order for the protagonist to learn a lesson I have to tone down the more absurd elements of the story?  The ending is actually not "serious", btw, but it does show growth for the protagonist, and it is also in line with the absurdist tone of the rest of the story -- what else could it be but an absurd resolution to an absurd conflict in the first place anyway?

You might have it clear in your head how you want it to be, but as a reader it is coming across as inconsistent. Let me explain what I mean. In a skit, you can take certain liberties with reality because the whole thing is just meant to be a joke. In a story, you have to adhere to certain rules for things to make sense. For example, characters don't exist in a vacuum. Which means if two guys are in a supermarket shooting the place up, certain things would be expected to happen. Why aren't other customers screaming and running for their lives? Why haven't the cops turned up? Where is the security guard? Why do the employees just go about their normal business like nothing is happening?

You can say that the whole thing is absurd, and not meant to be taken seriously, which isn't a sufficient answer to the above problems. Which brings me back to the point that this is really more of a skit than a story, and why it seems like you are in two minds about it. Whether you think it works or not, it comes across as unsure of itself and what it is trying to accomplish.

I'm certainly not saying the fact that the characters grow and learn something goes over the reader's head. Quite the opposite. I'm saying it's too pronounced and obvious in your story. It comes across a bit heavy-handed and like you are trying to insert a lesson right at the end. It's not believable that these two people, who are so committed to their cause and way of life, would change years of thinking in an instant like this. Just saying 'it's not meant to be taken seriously' is not good enough, as if you are writing a story your characters must act in a way that is believable for who they are. Which is why I think you need to refocus this story better, or just go all out and make it shorter and more absurd and just leave it as a skit.