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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Scripts  ›  Liar Moderators: bert
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  Author    Liar  (currently 1204 views)
Don
Posted: February 21st, 2012, 10:31pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Liar by Louise Lee Mei (loulou) - Short, Comedy - Lies tear people apart. These two liars bring people together. 17 pages - pdf, format


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cartertaylor
Posted: February 22nd, 2012, 7:06am Report to Moderator
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The title is generic, too vague and inappropriate for a 'comedy'. The logline is nonsensical where it should be compelling.
I feel the genre you are really aiming for is a light, comedy romance. As I enjoy Chick Flicks I read it through to the end. It was slow going but by the end I felt you might have the basis of a story.
The slow pace will be improved by tighter, sharper writing and by cutting anything that does not push the pace. A spec script does not need a literary style. The slug establishes a beach but is 'carve easily' more telling than 'cut'? Are all the children buried? Must the dogs 'yap' as well as 'bark'? I am not being facetious but hope to show that every single word must be made to work to the benefit of your script.
You chose two words to give us an instant idea of Ally: 'young' and 'studious'. As we have her age already, does 'young' tell us something extra? Do you mean she appears younger than her given age? Is she immature?  
After admittedly only one reading, I do not think 'studious' well describes Ally. Much later, we are told 'her curves' are 'as big and bold as her personality'. If you had given us 'vivacious' we would already be on the way to that image you want for her.
We may not always begin by liking the main characters but in a film of this kind we absolutely must end up loving them. To do that the writer herself must love and know them. How well do you know Ally? Why, after an apparently happy affair does she suddenly 'look at Ian incredulously...kicking over the picnic basket before storming off'? (Avoid 'ly words; kicks, not kicking.)
If this is an example of Ally's supposed immaturity then this will be problematic. A serious character flaw of this nature in a young woman in a sexual relationship with an older man would kill the romance. Her reaction seems unlikely and histrionic in the circumstances; it's only another five years, after all. Does she suspect he is lying in other areas of their relationship too?
I hope you take my comments as well intentioned and will encourage you to a rewrite. I'd like to read it.

Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
cartertaylor  -  February 22nd, 2012, 7:27am
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Dreamscale
Posted: February 22nd, 2012, 11:19am Report to Moderator
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I've got to say that I really hate trying to read feedback from someone when it's all crammed together with no paragraphs.  Extremely irritating, and a sign that maybe you should take what's being said with a few grain mills of salt.

I also have to say I hate reading feedback that "tells" a writer what they have to do and what they cannot do, especially when alot of it is poor advice, or things that don't really matter or come into play.

It's 1 thing to offer advice and provide suggestions, and explain why, but it's another to make comments like this...


Quoted from cartertaylor
The title is generic, too vague and inappropriate for a 'comedy'.


There's nothing wrong with the title here and if there is, it's so far down the list of importance, it's crazy.  No one has the right to tell someone else that their title is this or that, unless it's obviously a really piss poor effort.

The script is not great and the writing on display is also not great, but it's also not bad and probably better than most of the scripts posted here.  The usual problems are on display, but again, IMO, at least, this is better written than many scripts you'll read on SS.

It's a little long for what it is and what it has to say, IMO.  Anything much over 12 pages is a "long" short.  The dialogue also needs alot of work, as it doesn't come off realistically at all.

But, going back to the feedback, I have to bring this up and make some comments.


Quoted from cartertaylor
A spec script does not need a literary style.


Complete and utter BS, IMO.  A Spec script is meant to showcase a writer's style, as well as their skill.  It has to be read, first, before anything can happen, and with the amount of Spec scripts floating around, it has to be a good read, to get read.  Anyone who's anyone will not read a Spec script unless it is a good read, and good reads definitely have literary style.


Quoted from cartertaylor
I am not being facetious but hope to show that every single word must be made to work to the benefit of your script.


Yeah...right.  Good luck with that.  That would be great, but it doesn't happen..and it won't happen.  Sure, many of the examples you're bringing up, are things that could be omitted or changed, but they're far from the problems here, IMO.  The writer is trying to establish a voice and show some visuals, which is always a good thing.

loulou, you need to read scripts here and see for yourself what works and what doesn't work...and most importantly why.  I think you need to focus on cutting this script down to no more than 10 pages, and by doing that, it will most likely get rid of most or all of the extraneous stuff that Cartertaylor is referring to.

But, lou, you really need to keep in mind that you want to write 1 page of prose per minute of film (on average).  Do you really see this as a 15 minute film?  I sure hope not.  If nothing else, take this to heart and really "see" your film playing in your head, and understand what's important and what isn't.  It's easier said than done, but is something to strive for.

Good luck going forward.
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Pale Yellow
Posted: February 22nd, 2012, 12:16pm Report to Moderator
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Hey there...

I took a look at this. To me, the story was cute. I think it would have been better to end it where she says "YES!"...but then I sorta like WTF endings.

I didn't have a problem with the title, infact I loved the title....short, simple. The logline, however, needs an overhaul.

There were a lot of typos, spelling errors, etc that you could easily fix with heavier proofing.

The dialogue was the biggest problem for me. There was too much of it. You could condense this short by atleast two or three pages by just trimming down the dialogue. Also, the dialogue needs to be worked on a little better for each character. What I mean, is you don't want your dialogue to sound 'generic'. We should be able to tell if it's Ian or Alley speaking. Their dialogue shouldn't sound the same...so give them more character by working on their dialogues.

Something like this would be supercheap to film as a short. It needs work, but I'm sure it could shape up.

Best of luck with it.
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Loulou
Posted: April 25th, 2012, 12:05am Report to Moderator
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Phew, it took a while to get this script up.

I have since made two real good efforts at at, yes...
1) cutting the dialogue way down and
2) getting away from the 'generic character typecast' portrayal and writing characters with a bit more depth. (I'm sweating)

I love this site because l can get real honest feedback.

Thanks for taking the time to read as well. It might not be the most concise, well executed screenplay on here but I'm learning so much from reading all of yours too. (Even though l might not comment as much as I should, sometimes I honestly can't think of anything to say to help in my limited experience).

Anyway enough disclaimers.

The title has changed to Leap of Faith, because in the mid point the male lead is challenged by his friend to convince female lead he has taken the 'Leap of Faith' to get payback for her lie.

The arcs: With regards to the theme, Lies. The Male lead starts oblivious to other peoples feelings of his lies, experiences the lies of another, tries to get revenge and defeated by the truth. The Female is emotionally defeated by the lie, gets revenge, realizes the truth while experiencing the consequences of her revenge. Ally' kicking of the basket is so much as immature as it is supposed to be emotional defeat.

The literary style: there have been comments on other scripts that my writing is too prose... but I kind of like it at this stage, even if it is a no,no. Anyone read the FRINGE PILOT? Now there's a writing style... I forgot mostly about the story long after but the writing style was seared deep into my brain. I'm not saying I aspire to be like that but I agree with Dreamscale that voice matters a bit more than a strict efficiency approach in the writing world.

Dreamscaler, l will read more scripts posted here. I've been reading produced stuff but it's so well written I doubt I'm learning 'the lessons'.

I'm also p[roducing this in the coming months so I figured the dialogue could be adressed in the editing room. That's just lazy though. I'm going to work harder on character development to address this.

Denam, funny you say that, the latest rewrite I foreshadowed the female leads susceptibility to 'romance' and upon seeing the large rock at the end says YES!
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steven8
Posted: April 25th, 2012, 4:43am Report to Moderator
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I like the story, and I like the way you write.  I am a weird buzzard -- I do not like chick-flicks, yet I was stuck to the screen back in the 80's rooting for Sam and Diane on Cheers and I love The X-Files mostly becuase of the wonderful chenistry between Mulder and Scully.

This is good little story and  I think it will film well.  You say you are producing it?  Will we be able to see it?


...in no particular order
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Loulou
Posted: April 25th, 2012, 6:15am Report to Moderator
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Thanks Steven!

Yes, I have a samll team, but production is months away.

I have just posted my first film written, directed, produced, acted and even edited by myself on my youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Louiseleemei

I'd like to know what you think of the writing in that one... a lot of my industry peers are actors and not straight up writers so getting constructive feedback on story structure is hard to find. Except on this DB of course.
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James McClung
Posted: April 25th, 2012, 11:04pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Loulou,

I enjoyed this for the most part. It seems a modest effort but it works for what it is.

My main issues are in regards to the timeframe. Ally calls to tell Ian she's pregnant after what seems to be a day. Ian retorts after a single night. How do these two expect their lies to hold any water with such eagerness? I'd stretch the respective waiting periods out some and rework their dialogue accordingly.

Furthermore, your overall pacing, even in individual scenes, feels slightly rushed. I think a little disbelief from each of the respective parties might ease that somewhat. Regardless, the script seems to eager to get from point A to point B. I'd like into that and see if you don't feel the same.

The initial lie could be a little bit bigger as well. I mean, of course thirteen years is a considerable age gap between the couple. But is it really that much worse than nine? I mean she already knew he was older and she was okay with it. I'd say either make the age difference bigger or, better yet, make the one lie a revelation of Ian's capacity to lie and thus a segway into other possible lies.

Food for thought.

Finally, I'd like to get some sense of how well these two know each other or, at least, think they know each other. And for how long? It seems they haven't been seeing each other for that long but they'd have to have some time between them for their lies to work out accordingly.

I do think the characters, overall, could be a little more interesting. They seem more or less average but in a story like this, very cookie-cutter indeed. Not a major gripe as I don't think you had your sights set to produce something spectacular. But I'm of a mind that says why settle for the same old, same old.

Anyway, that's about all I've got to say on this one. Not a bad effort but could use some work.


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steven8
Posted: April 26th, 2012, 1:42am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Loulou
Thanks Steven!

Yes, I have a samll team, but production is months away.

I have just posted my first film written, directed, produced, acted and even edited by myself on my youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Louiseleemei

I'd like to know what you think of the writing in that one... a lot of my industry peers are actors and not straight up writers so getting constructive feedback on story structure is hard to find. Except on this DB of course.


Eddie was very well done.  Terrific lighting and camera angles.  The editing is solid.  Some of the sound was a little weak.  Perhaps more sensitive mics?  Not sure, but it's very good!


...in no particular order
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Steex
Posted: April 26th, 2012, 2:20pm Report to Moderator
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I liked it. I guess I'm a little late to the party, because all the things I was prepared to tell you have already been addressed above.
Keep on writing!


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Loulou
Posted: April 26th, 2012, 7:30pm Report to Moderator
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Hi there James! Glad it was enjoyable. I guess with the timeframe thing l was aiming to have these characters more driven by their desire ofr a quick revenge rather than the plausability of thier lies. I'll have a play around with the time period thing, and I think the thought about the dialogue with this.

Pacing: Originally l had included a lot more convincing on especially on Ally's behalf, but the pacing of the scenes seemed to slow down. Even now l think they're much to long, I'll look at reworking this...

Ally's reaction to the intial lie was meant to be a bit OTT. In fact the characters in this are all quite OTT, so l did want her reaction to be a bit out of propotion.

I like the comment 'get a sense of long have they known each other". More personal history could be included for comedy here, huh?

Steven: Thanks, yes, the sound is the real issue. I would have finished it a while ago if weren't for that.

Steex: Never late! Looking forward to reading your stuff to!
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Forgive
Posted: April 26th, 2012, 7:59pm Report to Moderator
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Nice introduction - set the scene well.

... on a picnic blanket eating and watching the horizon.
Maybe
--  eating - they watch the horizon.

... They both gaze
-- 'They' implies the two of them, making 'both' redundant.

... her friend JAIMIE (28). Her curves ...
--- her friend JAIMIE (28), her curves ... continues the reference to Jaimie. The full stop could throw the reference to either girl.

... of lessons they will
never forget?
     ALLY
You know what, you’re right.

-- Ally has a change of heart here, it may be beneficial make a quick reference to her visual stance ...

Bottom of page 4 paranthetical could as well be an action line.

The intercut seemed a bit clumpy, and I guess there's different ways to do this, but it's possible before going to Ian's house to:
INTERCUT WITH:
Then have you INT. etc - but this depends on preference.

     IAN
Don’t get a say? -- missing 'I' ?

There's a few missing question mark here and there.

     IAN
I should...
     DAVO
You should...
     IAN
What’s a good one?

-- there's different ways that this can be played - Davo is obviously brought in as the side-kick, and that balances well as Ally has a side-kick -- and this is opinion -- but Ian is the protagonist here, and often it's better when the protag directs the action, and leads the story - here, Ian looks to Davo for direction, and Davo then provides it - maybe Ian should have the idea - and Davo try and dissuade him (conflict) - which keeps Ian directing his story. But different people have differing view on this kind of thing.

     ALLY
If were I you Cruella -- words mixed up a little ...

Overall I think this read pretty well - it was a quick read, and didn't feel like 17 pages - dialogue was nice and quick - sometimes Jaimie's was a little long - but that aside it was a nice little piece.

Good luck with it.

Simon
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Loulou
Posted: April 30th, 2012, 11:51pm Report to Moderator
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Wow, thanks so much Simon! This is the best feedback yet.

All those little nagging inconsistencies you're not sure how to fix. This is great!
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