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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Scripts  ›  Don't Push Moderators: bert
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Don
Posted: March 22nd, 2012, 4:45pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Don't Push by Chris F. Penoyer (Penoyer79) - Short, Drama, Thriller - It's about suicide and the ones we love. It's about a big red button. - pdf, format


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Penoyer79
Posted: March 22nd, 2012, 10:19pm Report to Moderator
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So here's my first contribution to this site in quite a while. I know some of you are itching to get your "red pens" on my stuff.

This is a bit of a personal tale for me, which i actually found quite challenging to write. Hopefully its not written too heavy handed... it was not meant to be. I feel like i have done the best I can with it on my own... now i need some fresh eyes to help make it the best it can be.

Thanks to Michael Cornetto and Jwent6688 for their reads and suggestions prior to submission.  

Have at it kids.
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Reef Dreamer
Posted: March 23rd, 2012, 9:09am Report to Moderator
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Hey Chris,

Had a quick read but I wasn't able to take notes so a few random thoughts.

Small issues first, no fade in and you start on page 2!

I liked the set up with the room, nice image, good sense of tension and suspense of why, what etc

The flashback of the supper time was fine, maybe a bit too blunt, but the message got across.

The girl and her behaviour I thought was genrally well played. Things didn't always make sense, her emotions varied, her actions inappropriate and all together worked I making us wonder what is this all about.

The boys death slightly annoyed me, as i felt the opportunity and motive were there, but these things are to create emotional responses. However, are we given enough information as to why he would choose this route? A bible to the side alone would throw in some information.

The weakest part to me was the mothers speech at the end. It felt like being lectured. I appreciate an explanation maybe required, but how about a little imagery, less dialogue.

The red button. This was intriguing, a sense of temptation, of being wrong, of little other choice against the odds and the girl adding to the desire to do this. Maybe her certainty that it would work diluted the possibility, as it come across that it would be wrong but the time he confronted this.

Otherwise, enjoyable read and some good ideas floating around.

All the best.


My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
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rc1107
Posted: March 23rd, 2012, 10:07am Report to Moderator
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Hey Chris.

Lol.  I'm wondering, did you use Synergy Script Editor?  I only ask because I tried using Synergy a while ago and they used to number my title page for some reason.  And, they never put periods after the page numbers.  (I don't know if no periods is a no-no, exactly, but it might do you well to look for another form of software.  Trust me, there are better ones out there.  Not much better, but a little.)

This is a pretty big challenge of a story to take on.  Some deep issues... trying to explain a little bit of the afterlife...  What's right and what's wrong...  Those are some challenging things to tackle head on in a story, especially in a short.  I'm impressed with your bold undertaking.

Your writing's good.  I got the image clearly of what was happening onscreen as I was reading.  There were just a couple, very few, typo's here and there.  Very minor, but typo's nevertheless.  (You said 'Billy ties to...' at one point.  Should be 'Billy tries to...'.  You also refer to him as Bobby once towards the end.)  Again, not stuff that would deter me from reading, but I like it when people point out my typo's to fix.)

There were a couple things that were putting me off during my read, though.  I guess maybe the cliche's.

The opening of course is very very reminiscent of 'Saw'.  Nothing too wrong with that, (And 'Saw' got it from 15 or so other films), as it's a scenario.  They say every writer has to have a haunted house story and a hitchhiker story.  I guess we could throw 'wakes up in a strange room' story to that.

Then there's the scene with the abusive father.  (Lol.  I've written that scene before, too, in a story.  In fact, the little kid in my story is named Vic.)  We've seen that a couple times before, a father just beating the hell out of his family for no shown reason besides there being a bottle in his hands.  Again, there's nothing wrong with that, as I'm sure it happens in real life all the time, but I wonder if there isn't a more cinematic approach to that scene.

Then there's the unevenness between Billy and Natasha.  Their connection read very weird, especially with him just suddenly calling her Nat within a minute of meeting her.  At first, I thought (because I knew this was some sort of afterlife), that she was going to be an ex of his in his past life.  Things read way too weird and uneven between them, and then all of a sudden her trying to hump him with a minute or so left on the bomb.  Yeah, I know there had to be some sort of temptation, but that didn't read too well at all and really drags a reader out of the story.

But the main thing I think I have a problem with is the moral of the story.  It seems like you're saying that it's okay to kill yourself.  If you're killing yourself for a good enough reason, you'll go to heaven.

Then, after you kill yourself, you get a second chance to... just let a bomb go off.  Isn't that just kind of a way to kill yourself again?  Wouldn't fighting for your life and pushing the button to try and find a way out be more noble then just giving up... again?  Plus, you get the chance to possibly save someone else's life?

Again, I applaud your boldness of the story you're telling, and there are some very strong writing skills present in your story, but I don't know if the story exactly works how it is.  It's just a little too uneven and I think the afterlife, (good luck with this challenge!  :-), needs fleshed out a little more.

- Mark


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Penoyer79
Posted: March 23rd, 2012, 10:17am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Reef Dreamer
Hey Chris,

The weakest part to me was the mothers speech at the end. It felt like being lectured. I appreciate an explanation maybe required, but how about a little imagery, less dialogue.


i rewrote that darn monologue 5 times... and no, i'm still not happy with it lol. my writing just isnt there yet to execute that scene correctly so it hits all the right notes.
i'm hoping the feedback here will help me get that right. it's not meant to be preachy or lecturing...  i just did the best i could possibly do with it.... and just made sure everything got explained.

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Penoyer79
Posted: March 23rd, 2012, 10:32am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from rc1107
Hey Chris.

Lol.  I'm wondering, did you use Synergy Script Editor?  I only ask because I tried using Synergy a while ago and they used to number my title page for some reason.  And, they never put periods after the page numbers.  (I don't know if no periods is a no-no, exactly, but it might do you well to look for another form of software.  Trust me, there are better ones out there.  Not much better, but a little.)


i use Microsoft Word.
actually another writer pointed out my page numbering error... i have since fixed this problem and it wont happen again


Quoted from rc1107

Then there's the unevenness between Billy and Natasha.  Their connection read very weird, especially with him just suddenly calling her Nat within a minute of meeting her.  At first, I thought (because I knew this was some sort of afterlife), that she was going to be an ex of his in his past life.  Things read way too weird and uneven between them, and then all of a sudden her trying to hump him with a minute or so left on the bomb.  Yeah, I know there had to be some sort of temptation, but that didn't read too well at all and really drags a reader out of the story.


i agree with you here.... the whole idea here is Billy's a bit of a misfit and a loner...probably never had a girlfriend before... and Natasha (you could call her The Devil or A Devil) is another source of Temptation for him... and she's there to seduce him and take into pushing the button... the idea is - if he pushes the button before the timer runs out - she gets to take him to hell...



Quoted from rc1107

But the main thing I think I have a problem with is the moral of the story.  It seems like you're saying that it's okay to kill yourself.  If you're killing yourself for a good enough reason, you'll go to heaven.

Then, after you kill yourself, you get a second chance to... just let a bomb go off.  Isn't that just kind of a way to kill yourself again?  Wouldn't fighting for your life and pushing the button to try and find a way out be more noble then just giving up... again?  Plus, you get the chance to possibly save someone else's life?


the only nugget that you're missing here is the fact that - in that fleeting moment between commiting the act... and death... there was a "oh shit - i shouldnt have done this... i was wrong"..... it's that last moment of pure regret that leads them to this purgatory.

the whole thing is symbollic..... the room is the world... the timer is our lives on countdown till death - and all the hard time we face.... and the red button and the girl are temptation for the easy way out (pulling the trigger)....

its basically the same situation all over again... just more metaphorically.

hope that helps
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Dreamscale
Posted: March 23rd, 2012, 11:49am Report to Moderator
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Hey Chris, good to see a script from you.  Hopefully, you'll get lots of good feedback, and it looks like peeps are jumping in quickly, which is nice.

You definitely have a certain style, as I see much the same flow and elements from your Leech script, which you know I read recently.  This is a both a good and a bad thing, as I see many of the same mistakes, but also see things I really like.

Let's check them out quickly...

Like Leech, I feel this is too long...or maybe better put, could/should be told in less pages.  You've got about 22 orphans here and another 10-15 instances where you simply have a person's name in dialogue.  Basically, almost an entire page can be shaved off without losing anything.  You're at 16 1/2 pages (you incorrectly numbered this again, just like Leech), and I think you should cut this down to 12.

Your writing is good in places, but awkward in many instances.  For instance, your opening line is awkward - "The eyes of Billy..." - This would read much smoother as "Billy's eyes...".  Some typos, misspellings, grammar issues, etc, but again, for the most part, pretty good.

You have a tendency to over describe and/or give details that just don't matter.  You also have a tendency for writing on the nose dialogue, too much dialogue, and have your characters use other character's names in dialogue way too often.

Story-wise, this has all the elements going for it that most peeps look for, and gurus advise - mystery, tension, a ticking clock (literally), a deep underlying message, a twist...all good stuff...and I liked it for the most part, BUT, the vast majority is so chiche, so heavily traveled terrain, and much of it isn't handled differently enough for it to really stand out (for me).

The Flashbacks are good...and not so good for me.  Yes, they do paint the picture you're trying to nail home, but the way they do it is just too cliche to really work (for me).  The father is too much of a classic asswipe.  Too mean for the sake of being mean.  It's really about less being more sometimes and too much being over the top to the point where it loses the effect you're after.

Now, the red button thing is the problem for me here.  I get what you're after and while reading, it actually does work pretty well, but immediately after, it doesn't (for me).  When you're using symbols and metaphors, IMO, they have to make sense, and this just doesn't.  Billy and Nat are in a situation (much like the Saw movies, as someone brought up) where there's 2 choices...or no choice, depending on how you look at it.  I don't see pushing the red button as "the easy way out".  It's a 50/50 choice - do nothing or push the button.  What I'm saying is that I don't see any redemption or whatever you want to call it by resisting Nat's "temptations" and suggestions.  I think for this to work the way you want it to, the choice needs to be much greater...but then we're talking about a longer setup, and I don't think you want or need that.

The finale is cool in some ways, and even "nice" to see Billy and Claire together in Heaven.  As someone else stated, Clair's dialogue/monologue is over the top, too long, and just kind of bludgeons us over the head with the "message" you want to be sure you're getting across.  And I have to say that I appreciate the effort on your part to make sure your message came through, but it's just too heavy handed, too on the nose, and ultimately, a let down for me.

There's alot going for this story, script, and you as a writer, IMO.  I like how you tackle controversial subject matter, show ugliness and brutality, and tie things together at the end.  It shows attention to detail and clever writing and thinking.

On the downside, I think you can improve your actual writing in the ways mentioned above.  If you're going to use cliches, which is fine and almost impossible to avoid, in reality, I think you need to be careful of the extent you use them, much like Mark mentioned.  Finally, for me, the red button itself didn't quite work or make sense.  I don't have a suggestion, but I bet you can come up with something that frames your overall message better.

It's a good effort though anyway you look at it and head and shoulders above the majority of posted scripts here.  I look forward to seeing more from you, Chris.  Hope this helps.

Take care, man.
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Penoyer79
Posted: March 23rd, 2012, 3:24pm Report to Moderator
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thanks for the read JEFF. <--(ninja edit)
when you read Leech... this script was already in the pipeline...and after your review i pretty much knew exactly where i was going to get nailed in this script. heh.

this script was very hard to write and i struggled with much of the dialogue. however i was happy enough with the story i figured people would get the idea. hopefully the more i continue to write - the better i'll become and at some point i'll be able to go back and write the dialogue that the story and characters deserve.

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Penoyer79  -  March 23rd, 2012, 3:50pm
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Dreamscale
Posted: March 23rd, 2012, 3:35pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Penoyer79
thanks for the read Kevin.


Kevin?

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Reef Dreamer
Posted: March 23rd, 2012, 3:46pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale


Kevin?



Well I did say you sounded like Costner !!


My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
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Penoyer79
Posted: March 23rd, 2012, 3:49pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale


Kevin?



oh $%^&... sorry JEFF..... too many names floating in my head
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Heretic
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Hey Chris,

I read this yesterday and didn't have time to take notes then, so my comments are going to be broad rather than specific.

I like this and I like that you're dealing with complicated and far-reaching and universal ideas.  You've effectively walked the line of symbolism, I think, in that the story always feels somewhat grounded in reality despite its metaphysical nature.  I think the main problem that you're facing here is that many sequences are vastly cliched and overdramatic.

The family sequences are the main problems.  The bully story, the horrible dad, the mom's suicide, and so on are all so massively dramatic that there's no way we can accept them as justified in such a short story.  That's not to say that all of these events can't happen, simply that they needn't play out in such an overstated way.  Todd can be bad without being evil incarnate, and the mom can kill herself without being naked and writing on herself.  It's just way too much, and there's no way we're gonna buy it.  Or, no way I'm gonna buy it, anyway.  This is not helped by the fact that they're story elements that we're very well used to as a film audience.  I think you really want to downplay these elements in favour of the most unique elements of your story, which for me are the bomb scenario and the limbo idea.

Although Nat's attempted seduction of Billy following immediately after the revelatory flashback is a wise move, the shift occurs a little bit too quickly.  I think we need room to breathe after the intense story from Billy's past before we can re-engage in another sequence of rising action.  

I wonder if the red button is an intentional Genesis allusion.  There's something interesting in the idea of original sin being used as an analogy within this context, but I'm not sure if it clarifies or complicates for me, if it's intended at all.  It's hard not to think of it -- man, woman, big red button, woman convinces man.  This of course also puts the script in the awkward position of making Eve and Satan one and the same.  I dunno.  Just a thought.  Not sure if anyone else would make the connection in the first place.

Another point to that end.  The devil as sexy woman is to my mind not only a defunct mechanism but also a slightly offensive one.  The association of the devil with carnality is, to me at least, archaic.  Is it necessary overall in this script?  I'm not sure.  There might be a more interesting, and less familiar, form that the devil could take.

Finally, to speak to the main argument of this script.  I don't agree with it; I don't agree that suicide is wrong.  That's neither here nor there.  But I wonder if you might be able to strengthen the script to a certain extent by making it more clear that what billy did was to take the easy way out in such a way as to negatively affect not only his life but the life of those around him.  What I mean by this is that while I can absolutely see that what Billy's mom did was wrong -- not due to an inherent sin in suicide, but due to her abandonment of her son -- I see no such argument for Billy.  What I'm wondering is whether you can find a way to show to me, who doesn't believe in a Christian god and wouldn't accept suicide as inherently wrong, why what Billy did was wrong.  In other words, suicide as inherently sinful doesn't justify the immorality of Billy's actions for me and my beliefs...is there a story element that could be added (not replace, but be added) to this argument that might sway me as well?  An obvious, if not ideal, example of how to do this would be to give Billy a little brother who he abandoned through the act of suicide.

Does that make sense?  I'm not sure if I've made that point clearly.

Claire's final monologue is not good.  It overstates the argument, reiterates what we already understand, and is cheesy.  Her final line is also cheesy.

The script is too long in general.

I guess my one overriding suggestion for this script would be to tone down the extreme elements on all sides and see if there's a way to make the same points with less highly dramatic sequences.  I think the problem this would face as a film is that the audience would quickly become exhausted and unresponsive.

Good on ya for a seriously ambitious script.

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Penoyer79
Posted: March 23rd, 2012, 5:11pm Report to Moderator
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heretic, i understand your criticisms.... as far as the opinion of suicide being inherently wrong...  i dont believe it is either... hense this sort of second chance purgatory i created.

as far as making the devilish character a woman i kind of explained above... with billy in my mind being a bit of a loner and a misfit... it seemed like a logical form to take to prey on his weakness of being unwanted. but you bring up an interesting point.

as far as the dialogue... i'm aware of my shortcomings in this area..... i can only say that i am working to get better. as for the ending monologue... heh i tried.. i'll keep tweaking it... its hard for me as a novice writer to figure out with my own work what the audience gets and what needs to be explained.... its really hard to take that step back....


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Heretic
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Quoted from Penoyer79
its hard for me as a novice writer to figure out with my own work what the audience gets and what needs to be explained.... its really hard to take that step back....


No kidding...I always wonder about the "greats" in respect to this.  Did Hemingway have a draft of Old Man and the Sea, or Towne of Chinatown, that was obvious and overstated, until someone pointed it out to them?  It's a funny thought.

About suicide being wrong...I should make it clear that I actually didn't understand that the limbo/purgatory was a direct result of the suicide.  I thought that there was some special quality, some moment of realization or some instant of recognition within Billy and within his mother that granted them this special opportunity.  If that's not the case, I guess I'd wonder...is the implication of the script that this is what happens to every single person who commits suicide?  Or, if there is something special about Billy and mom, what is it?
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Penoyer79
Posted: March 24th, 2012, 1:10am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Heretic


No kidding...I always wonder about the "greats" in respect to this.  Did Hemingway have a draft of Old Man and the Sea, or Towne of Chinatown, that was obvious and overstated, until someone pointed it out to them?  It's a funny thought.


ive often wondered that myself. I guess that's one of the qualities of writing that seperates the men from the boys.


Quoted from Heretic

About suicide being wrong...I should make it clear that I actually didn't understand that the limbo/purgatory was a direct result of the suicide.


it was a direct result of suicide... and in the context of the story ....a second chance given to those who have that realization. but who's to say there arent other special circumstances that may lead to this? i kept my explanation specific to the story.... i didn't want to get to broad or else it could come off sounding like a pro-suicide tale.
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