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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Drama Scripts  ›  Song of the Year Moderators: bert
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  Author    Song of the Year  (currently 4801 views)
Don
Posted: July 22nd, 2012, 4:35pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Song of the Year by Devon Ryan Pattynson - Drama, Documentary - What does it really take to become the world's most powerful musicians? 110 pages - pdf, format


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ChazzChristopher
Posted: July 22nd, 2012, 4:57pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Devon,

Not sure if you're on here or not, but I'll give you some first impressions.

In reading the first 30 pages or so, I can see some pretty serious problems that make me kind of guess that the rest of the script is similar.  And most of what I'm noticing isn't very good.  In fact, it's pretty bad.

1)  Your scene numbers are un-needed and distracting.  The only time we, as writers, put scene numbers in is for a shooting draft.  I'm assuming that this is nowhere close to a shooting draft.  So, get rid of that stuff.

2)  You have a LOT of music cues.  This screams "Amateur!!!" for a lot of reasons.  #1 - it's generally frowned upon to include music cues.  In fact, it's not just frowned upon, it's downright discouraged.  #2 - Why?  because by the time this gets made what is current in music will be much, much different.

I understand your script is ABOUT music, but you're dating your script in a massive way.

3)  Your dialogue is approaching atrocious.  I say that as respectfully as I can, but it comes out harsh no matter what...so let's just call it as it is.

First off, your dialogue is boring and woody.  There's nothing interesting or cool about the way these kids talk.  If you're writing a subset like southern california high school kids, nail their speech patterns in a way that is interesting and/or cool.  In reading your lines, literally every line could possibly be spoken by any one of the other characters.  That's not good.  There's not distinctiveness between characters.  Use contractions, dropped words, etc. to show the difference between your characters and to give your dialogue, well...character.

Secondly, you repeat information again and again and again and again.  How many times and in how many ways do we have to hear that Devon and Declan are going to UCLA and are about to go to college.  I get and understand that their going to college is a big deal, but you're giving us the same information in multiple different ways from multiple different characters.  A screenwriting teacher once said, "If you repeat it, it'd better be fucking crazy important."  Where these kids are going to college isn't really THAT important.  Yet, you have an entire conversation trying to tell us - the reader/the audience - that it is indeed important.  It's not.  Your first sequence could easily lose 2-3 pages just from getting rid of repeated information.

Third, nearly everything in your dialogue is freaking exposition.

"Nothing, just really tired."

Um...you've already told us that he's tired.  Why does he need to say it.  That line right there is the definition of "on the nose".

"...and in case you haven't noticed it's our senior year"

Exposition.  And not in a good, subtle way.  Just boom.  On the nose.  There it is.

"We got into the same one.  UCLA.  It'll be sweet."

There's so much wrong with that line, but I'll just point out the on the nose exposition factor.

"Like some people don't make it through.  I don't want to be a college drop out."

Why not just have him wear a t-shirt that tells us exactly what he is feeling in every scene.  Maybe a mood ring that lets us know where he's at at all times.

That stuff would be less offensive than this line.

"We usually check out YouTube before class starts"

Again.  Exposition.  On the nose.  Awkwardly stated.

4)  You're working on a lot of grammar and punctuation mistakes.  Some of it is in your dialogue, which is sometimes all right because it's dialogue.  But it shows us that you don't deserve our trust to read the rest of the script because you can't handle the difference between "your and you're" or "its and it's".  If you can't handle that, why should I trust you to be able to hit the beats of a legit drama and make me believe you have a voice that has something to say?

The answer is...you can't.


With all that said.  I hope you'll take what I've given you here and rework some of this.  I like the premise.  I even like the setting.  But at this point, too many things aren't quite right.

Chazz
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Ledbetter
Posted: July 23rd, 2012, 6:24pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ChazzChristopher

First off, I do hang out here from time to time.  When I do, I comment on full scripts, not just 5-10 pages of a script.  It's one of the reasons I don't spend more time here - people don't read full scripts, they read 1 page or even 20 pages and think they understand a script.  My normal hangouts are Talentville and Zoetrope.  But when I do come over I read full scripts.Chaz


REGARDING THIS SCRIPT...


Quoted from ChazzChristopher
Hey Devon,
In reading the first 30 pages or so, I can see some pretty serious problems that make me kind of guess that the rest of the script is similar.  And most of what I'm noticing isn't very good.  In fact, it's pretty bad.
Chazz


Chaz,
Your reviews are as much full of bullshit as your post. You tear this guys scripts up and use the exact same language on him, you claimed was offensive to you.


Quoted from ChazzChristopher
Hey Devon,
Your dialogue is approaching atrocious. Chazz


That’s supposed to be helpful?? Telling someone their writing is just this side of atrocious?
I’m at page 50 and I see the one the nose writing, but most writers first attempt is a real challenge to get their voice.


You then end it with some utterly offensive comment about the writer not GAINING OUR TRUST in order to complete reading his script?


Quoted from ChazzChristopher
4)  But it shows us that you don't deserve our trust to read the rest of the script because you can't handle the difference between "your and you're" or "its and it's". If you can't handle that, why should I trust you to be able to hit the beats of a legit drama and make me believe you have a voice that has something to say?

The answer is...you can't.Chazz


You got a fucking mouse in your pocket? When did you start speaking for “us”? I don’t need to TRUST the writer. I just need for the script to be decent.

And your answer is…He can’t.

Well isn’t that the most helpful insight.

This script needs some work, and I’ll bet it’s most likely the writers first attempt.
For that, Devon, I applaud you.
I’m taking notes as I finish this up over the next couple of days. I’ll PM them to you when I’m done.

Shawn…..><




Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Ledbetter  -  July 23rd, 2012, 6:53pm
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ChazzChristopher
Posted: July 23rd, 2012, 6:55pm Report to Moderator
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Ledbetter, Shawn, whatever...first off: bravo - the review of a review.

Secondly, you took every single quote of mine completely out of context.

I didn't just tell him his dialogue was bordering atrocious.  I told him exactly how it was such, and I told him how this kind of thing could be helped.

I also read 30 pages (and flipped through the last 2/3 of his script - finding the same problems, btw) - which is WAY fucking more than 2 pages, which is what the person I was calling out in that post had read.  Most of the time, I will read an entire script, but every so often you come across a script that shows that the screenwriter hasn't taken the time to do the basics - and this script fit squarely into that description.

Shawn, I've read Mission Style.  You're obviously a talented writer.  Surely you can't be this fucking dense.  Seriously?  Have you never, ever seen a reviewer use "us" when talking about "we" the readers?  If you haven't then you have never ever gotten pro coverage.  The use of "us" is common.  Don't nitpick just to find something to bitch about.  

Writing is about gaining the trust of the viewer - or in this case, the reader.  We want to suspend disbelief, to lose ourselves in a story.  When the writer is making so many mistakes that we are constantly being brought out of the story and going, "oops, there's another mistake", when the writer can't tell the difference between "your" and "you're" or "its" and "it's" then we, the audience, can't suspend disbelief enough to trust them to tell us a good story.

So, get the fuck off my back.  I haven't done shit to you.  You aren't the guardian of this fucking site.  I took the time to read and give thoughts on a screenplay that most on here wouldn't give past page 2, and actually made it through the first act (I think...there really wasn't any indication that we were moving on to the next act.)

Now write a review of this script so I can review your review.  I'm sure I can take a few quotes out of context and try to make a point.

Or you could just go back to whatever fucking hole you live in and keep trying to write -- and I'll do the same.  Live and let live.  No reason to be a douche.

Chazz
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Dreamscale
Posted: July 23rd, 2012, 7:09pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ChazzChristopher
Live and let live.  No reason to be a douche.Chazz


How about live and let die, bitch?

Chazz, you are seriously unreal. Your choice of words in your "review" are downright mean and meant to hurt this poor guy.  I'm appalled, actually.

You bitch and bitch about the "feedback" you received and this is how you repay some new writer? Wow.

For such a talented writer like yourself, one who is so good he doesn't even need feedback, you sure don't pay if forward, do you?

Very weak, dude...

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Ledbetter
Posted: July 23rd, 2012, 7:28pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ChazzChristopher
Ledbetter...first off: bravo - the review of a review.
Secondly, you took every single quote of mine completely out of context.
Chazz


First off, it’s not a review, it’s an observation. And using the old “out of context” fallback is weak. Those quotes are there in full context. You can’t have it both ways Chaz…

You can’t call everyone here who partially reads a script out for it and then suggest that your personal “trust” criteria is breached therefore a continuation of the script is impossible. That’s fucking bull shit and you’re an idiot for trying to sell it.


Quoted from ChazzChristopher
Most of the time, I will read an entire script, but every so often you come across a script that shows that the screenwriter hasn't taken the time to do the basics - and this script fit squarely into that description.
Chazz


Okay, so now, it’s MOST of the time, you’ll read a script, but this writer simply didn’t gain your trust in time by page 30, so it’s bets off. Do you see how utterly sad that sounds?


Quoted from ChazzChristopher
Have you never, ever seen a reviewer use "us" when talking about "we" the readers?  If you haven't then you have never ever gotten pro coverage.  Chazz


Speak for Chaz. You try and add leverage to your words by making it sound as though there is a general opinion about the script when in fact it’s only you.


Quoted from ChazzChristopher
Writing is about gaining the trust of the viewer - or in this case, the reader.  Chazz


That's your opinion and it wrong. It’s about entertaining.


Quoted from ChazzChristopher
So, get the fuck off my back.  I haven't done shit to you.  You aren't the guardian of this fucking site.  Chazz


You’re right, I’m not, and you’re not someone who can go an shit on a new writer and call it a review. Don’t cry when you get reviews you don’t like and then move down to a newby and slam them and say “ I’m only tried to help”.


Quoted from ChazzChristopher
Or you could just go back to whatever fucking hole you live in and keep trying to write Chazz


I think I'll rather hang out in your hole for a while...police you...

The way you treated this writer was wrong, it was rude and it was abrasive in tone.

But he didn’t pass your trust meter, so he must have deserved it...

right?



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Forgive
Posted: July 23rd, 2012, 7:38pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
How about live and let die, b*itch?

... Your choice of words in your "review" are downright mean and meant to hurt this poor guy.  I'm appalled, actually.



Great to see influential members leading by example.

As I'm fairly confident I was one of the people CC was complaining about re. the 1 page read, I think a 30 page job is fair. His feedback is pretty clear and he gives reasons for what he's saying, even if you don't side with him.

I think CC's feedback is full on - but I don't think it's intended to 'hurt' the guy.

It's no worse than feedback you've given in the past. In fact, I suspect you and CC are not so dissimilar. You know that you dip out on log-lines that are poorly written - so do I. More than three lines of sh*t and I'm happy to ditch a script.

I know to some extent you're defending Ledbetter, but it looks like you're reaching for an excuse to hit out at someone here.
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Ledbetter
Posted: July 23rd, 2012, 7:43pm Report to Moderator
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Si-

I don't need defending nor did I ask Jeff to step in on my behalf.

My opinions stand on their on.

Shawn.....><
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Dreamscale
Posted: July 23rd, 2012, 7:45pm Report to Moderator
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Simon, I think Chazz's words are reason enough for what I said.

I have nothing against negative or even harsh feedback.  That's obvious.  Mean spirited comments from a guy who was whining for post after post about his unfair treatment, ain't gonna cut it in my book.

Led is spot on, but his avatar is horrendous!!!!  Dude...please!!!!
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Forgive
Posted: July 23rd, 2012, 7:48pm Report to Moderator
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Ledbetter - I didn't realize you're wife was English ...
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Ledbetter
Posted: July 23rd, 2012, 7:53pm Report to Moderator
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Si-

Well played!
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ChazzChristopher
Posted: July 24th, 2012, 1:35am Report to Moderator
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Lol...this site is pretty awesome.  Ledbetter and Dreamscale have thus far been pretty stinking great.  Thanks, guys.  You guys are wonderful.

Unless you're a mod, Ledbetter, shut the fuck up.  I wasn't mean spirited at all.  I've read your posts - you do the same shit.  Now you're just playing devil's advocate to bring some joy and drama to your loser life.

Why don't you go enter your screenplay into a couple more competitions...or you can PM me some comments.  Either one of those things is more productive than your stupid ass is being right now.

To Dreamscale: damn.  I really trying to cut it in your book.  Guess I'll just have to work harder.

Really, though, my post is less harsh and more helpful that the shit you regularly call a review, Dreamscale.  Let me quote a few of your "gems"



QUOTE:
Just my opinion of course, but for me, this really did not work and I'd actually say pretty much everything about it was the cause.

Bert mentioned an odd, over the top staccato style.  Yeah, this was an issue as well for me.  But more so, it had to do with the fact that you used numerous incorrect tenses, used passive verbiage but tried to hide it by simply omitting any and all verbs, often omitted subjects, and also omitted leadoff words like "a" or "the".

END QUOTE

How the fuck is this helpful at all?  It's not even a review.  It's a "listen to my opinion because I'm a big dog on this board so I can just say shit that makes no sense and isn't helpful at all just because I can."


Another gem.


QUOTE:

But, if you did, why would you want to post such utter horseshit?  C'mon now..let's get real.

So, is English like your 3rd language, or what?

Unreal...

END QUOTE

Um...no comment.


QUOTE:
Are you really this clueless, or just another young douchebag kid who's got something wedged up his A** so far, at this point, it ain't coming out?

END QUOTE


QUOTE:
Here's the deal - it didn't go much of anywhere, sorry to say.  And the reason is because of what you chose to show and not show.  You see, the story seems to be centered on Kyle, the "bullies", his teacher, and his Mom and "friend".  But really, none of these characters or plot points have anything to do with...well...anything here. Even the dog, although definitely a character with an arc, really doesn't have much to do here, other than bark and menace.

END QUOTE

Again, not remotely helpful.  Just negative.  No helpful insight.  


I mean I just pointed out 4 examples from ONE month of you just writing to see your fucking words in print on a forum that you act like you own (who knows, maybe you do).

So, I'm sorry, but your opinion is worthless to me.  As apparently my opinion is worthless to me.

So, let's live and let live.  I haven't followed you around and called out your stupid shit.  How about you don't follow me around and look for what you think is stupid shit to call out?

Moving onward and forward.

This script needs a lot of work, but the idea is a cool idea.  I'd love to see this guy work on this and see where it goes.

Chazz


ETA: In thinking this over, however, I can admit that the review came across harsher than I meant it to.  That was my bad and my fault.  I do not appreciate the "brigade" coming out en force to try and spank me, but I can admit when I could have done better.  And in this case I could have done better.

Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
ChazzChristopher  -  July 24th, 2012, 3:56am
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bert
Posted: July 24th, 2012, 7:27am Report to Moderator
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End it, guys.  Here.  Now.  Avoid each other if that's what it takes.

And I am looking at you this time, Led -- stirring the pot that had all but settled.

Enough is enough.

Nobody is the "perfect" reviewer -- except me, maybe -- and parsing out quotes to make some kind of case, without the script for context, is just a silly game.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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Ledbetter
Posted: July 24th, 2012, 9:07am Report to Moderator
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That fine Bert...

But the level of harsh criticism thrown at this new writer would have been enough for any writer to not want to return.

I'm not the police, nor am I a MOD. I am however someone who can see an unfair review when I see it!

Chaz even admitted he was too harsh on the guy!

I digress!!

Shawn.....><
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Reef Dreamer
Posted: July 24th, 2012, 9:15am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from bert
End it, guys.  Here.  Now.  Avoid each other if that's what it takes.

And I am looking at you this time, Led -- stirring the pot that had all but settled.

Enough is enough.

Nobody is the "perfect" reviewer -- except me, maybe -- and parsing out quotes to make some kind of case, without the script for context, is just a silly game.


I thought so.... He can't really leave. It's like the firm. You see, he says he's off, wont be around for a while, yet then he's back chasing the bad guys and also..."noddling (different thread)"... as well.

Good to have your watchful eye Bert (hope this wasn't too off message, won't do it again)


My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
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