Count To Three by Ed Beach (CrusaderVoice) - Short, Drama -  A man has three seconds to decide whether to give in to a gunman's demand. 6 pages - pdf, format

I had a problem with this, Ed.  The actual mugging seemed so drawn out and artificial.  

SPOILER SPACE!!

Why would the mugger (whom you really should name) be so interested in his victim's wallet if he already got the money?  He's wasting time with unneeded discussion and the three-count.

I think your dialog needs work asd a lot of it is awkward and wordy:

Quoted Text         ROBERT You're not holding me back. I'm not really interested in moving on right now. I don't have anything else lined up.

could be more realistically written as:

Quoted Text         ROBERT But you're firing me?

Terminations from jobs are quick (believe me, I know).  But this went on and on.

I recommend that you cut this script down a page or two.  Keep it simple and straightforward.

Hope this helps.


Phil

Hey Ed. This isn't a bad bash, but it's not all there yet.

Script-wise, it's written fairly well, but I don't think you used the flashback to their full potential. You could also do with chucking in a couple of location descriptions. Also, the gunman and Robert's exchanges fell a little flat, in particular, the gunman's dialogue needs raising a little.

Main problem for me here was the story. In principal, it appears that we have:

Robert gets the sack.
Roberts and his wife lose a baby.
Robert's wife leaves him.
Robert and his wife have a baby.
Robert gets shot.

And I don't think this amounts to a great idea. And if this is the kind of thing that you want to sell, then I think you really need to invest some in the emotional aspect of Robert, else it's just going to come over like 'Robert's life is a bummer, and then he dies'.

You can think of things from a number of angles, but I think that you need to be aware of a couple of things:

1. Robert is the passive recipient of almost all the 'action' in this piece. Apart from wingeing here and there, he doesn't set off any action of himself.

2. Learn or change - something here should impact on Robert so that he either learns something or it impacts on him to the extent that it changes him/his life view etc. This is where you can bring in your emotional impact, and give us some reason to care some about the guy, which I don't think you've really done here.

Hope this helps, as you do seem to have something here, it just needs a little more to make it the full article.

Best o' luck with it.

Simon

I'm not sure where to start.

I went back and forth about uploading this to the site. The reasons why I was apprehensive were numerous...the quality of the script itself was just one aspect out of about 1,247 reasons.

Ultimately, I hit the send button because I hope to get better. I learned so much from the feedback on the three pieces I have posted, especially the two previous shorts. I asked for help and opinions elsewhere on the boards regarding over-writing and it felt like this site's All-Star team showed up to chime in.

I feel like I have acquired a wealth of information from many of you and I greatly appreciate how so many of you have devoted to your time to read, write reviews and been so generous with your own knowledge and experience.

You may not be able to tell I'm any better with this piece but most of the time I've been able to devote to writing has been spent on re-writing another project (a much happier tale).

I hate to admit this (and that's probably not the only time I'll use that phrase on this thread) - but my primary motive for the short scripts I've written was to get some feedback to figure out what works in a script and what doesn't. The mistakes I make with several hours invested over a week or two I don't want repeated in a bigger project I invest months in. And if something I write works, that helps too in going forward.

Clearly, I have a few things to learn from this thing.

Simon, I hope you and Phil along with a bunch of other people can come back around and talk through this with me a little more.

I probably need to respond to things or have specific questions. When I'm thinking clearer, I'll pose them.

For now, I'm just going to add that I wrote this a little less than 48 hours after I was robbed at gunpoint in the parking lot of a store. I lost some cash and my phone (my wallet was in the trunk of my car because I forgot to get it out of my gym-bag). I resisted at first...but gave in at the count of two.

Hey - Ed. Well, good for uploadng it then. Obviously not a nice experience - I don't know if this happened last week or last year.

It's good that you're working with shorts like this before committing to a feature - there's a lot anyone can learn, and there's a lot of experimenting you can do with style etc in a short.

Are there bits of this you're struggling with more than others? Feel free to sound off.

Simon

I wasn't not overly traumatized by the experience (and I'm not really sure why...somehow I've convinced myself it was random bad luck).

Anyway, the day after it happened, you start replaying the event in your mind and all scenarios and outcomes that may have been different.

On another thread where I asked for help to keep from over-writing, Pia Cook suggested I try writing 5-page scripts for MoviePoet. From what I've seen on these boards, Pia Cook is never wrong about anything so I signed up. The day after I was held up, I saw the monthly challenge was to deal with a countdown, a countdown of any kind. Since this had just happened, it was on the front of my mind.

In retrospect, it may have been too soon to have objectively and intelligently crafted something.

The dialogue in this seemed like a step backward for me and I'm not sure why.

Honestly, Simon, I don't have many instincts for this yet. This is the latest in: "I don't know if this works...so I'll post it and see what people think." Less seemed to work well here than my other material...even though I think this was more tightly written.

Hi Ed,

There's not a lot I can say that hasn't already been covered by Simon and Phil. To be honest, I didn't pick up the same things that others have picked up. Either that means I have yet to learn some very important things about screenwriting, or these issues didn't affect me as much.

In terms of writing, I thought this was very well put together. It seems that you're starting to develop your style. Like Phil said, I do think the dialogue could take a better turn, but nothing too major, IMO.

Having grown up in a dangerous country (South Africa) I can certainly sympathize for how you felt while writing this. I've seen hold-ups before and my Dad has had a gun pointed at him three times in hijackings and things like that. Fortunately, I've never been directly involved, but I used to hear stories all the time. What I'm trying to say is it's good that you got this one out on the boards. I think with a quick wee re-write you can address the issues raised by the other two.

This is by no means bad and has potential to be filmed at some point.

Keep it up.

Dan

P.S. Sorry I couldn't be more detailed in my response.

Quoted from CrusaderVoice Less seemed to work well here than my other material...even though I think this was more tightly written.

Hi Ed - I had to have a quick look back at what you'd put up on the boards - I really wouln't be too disconsolate -- it appears that you are relatively new to this, and you seem to be making some really good progress. One script isn't going to ruin everything - some of them are write-offs now and again - it's all part of the learnig curve.

It was interesting that Dan was able to identify with this, seeing as he has more experience with this kind of thing (sort of). But it's getting it over to people who wouldn't normally be able to identify with it that's the trick.

Looking back at some of your scripts - this appears to me to be well-scripted, so I get the feeling that you clearly know what you're doing in that area. For me it was just a case of lack of story impact that weakened it. You had a set of events, but I don't really think that they built on each other very well.

In terms of story-focus, maybe you need a location for the voice of the story - the point at which Robert (you?) are being robbed - so that Robert refuses to give in to the robber with something along the lines of 'it ain't been a great day ...' and then go for the flash-back of him being sacked, so the Robert we are with hooks the flashback into his determination not to give in to this guy. Then the story and the motivation begin to intertwine somewhat. Maybe then, him being shot would have more impact?

Just chucking stuff out that might be worth chewing on, but in all honesty, few people get this thing right just after a couple of months of writing - the learning just never really seems to end.

Simon

Ed,

Here were my impressions as I was reading this:

The first scene was good. It grabbed my attention.

The second scene should be trimmed down. Either that, or the dialogue needs to keep it on par with the first scene. Otherwise you've got a great scene, then you got this dull scene, and I'm losing my patience waiting for you to jump back to the great scene. So, there are many ways to go about it I think, either trim it down or spice it up.

Third scene, you could probably remove the question from the gunman "You gonna hand them over?" to get a better effect. Because, sort of in line with what Phil said, you don't want the gunman to be wasting time otherwise it seems like you're forcing him to "outstay his welcome."

Fourth scene, "She grips the hand of her husband Robert" -- At least say whether he's sitting down or standing up, or on one knee, because initially I had a hard time imagining this.

I think Cathy, and maybe I'm stereotyping here, would probably be too stricken with grief to ask questions. So maybe, reassign the "What happens next?" to Robert, or work around it by completely removing it. Also, shorten Robert's dialogue here. You could probably get the same point across from "How...how long do you think we'll
have?" with "How...how long..?" Because their grief stricken, their at a loss for words.

Robert repeating the infant's name didn't do anything for me. So two possibilities I see. Either have him stutter it, or just say Ben and move on. I get the sense you're trying to hold a bit longer so the emotion will resonate, but honestly, silence is probably best with that. Just my opinion/preference on that one.

Fifth scene: I'm not sure what to say but it wasn't very effective for me. It seemed unnecessary.

Sixth scene: this one was my least favorite, because you're kind of pumping out more information at us, it's becoming dull. Shortening this scene might be best.

Seventh scene: The only thing that originally stuck out was that your action starting from "Robert lunges forward..." is just not well orchestrated because usually those things happen so fast, if I don't see action crossing over action, "meanwhile" or " [this happens] as [this happens]" I don't think it'll work on the screen. It'll look very odd. I mean, there is the occasional slowing down of action that happens but I don't think you want that here.

"Robert falls back and lands in a seated position. " -- I'm not saying its impossible, but it is certainly unorthodox to me.

"He lifts his head to at it." -- You left out a word, or a word too many.

Overall, I'd say it was interesting. It may work as a short but I'm having mixed feelings about it. In particular, I see this as you showing us a sliver of this guy's life. A moment of his life. Although you have, in a way, reduced it to his wife and baby, but then it kind of leaves it more philosophical and not so much as a full expression of his life that you could leave the audience to discover on their own. In other words, it's forced. So I'm sort of questioning this. Is there any kind single impression you'd like to leave the audience with? And if so, then maybe you should build, build, build to that impression.

Ultimately if what you want to tell is us that this guy loves his wife and baby and he wouldn't give up his wallet and phone, as a symbol of protecting them, I personally don't think that's enough or strong enough, rather. You'd have to mull it over more but there's potential behind this. I could see it going places.

Best,

-J.S.

Dan- I don't live in that dangerous a city. But the economy sucks so maybe that makes people desparate. The number of people panhandling and asking strangers on the street for money has increased by a factor of 10 in the last few years where I live. That's what I thought the guy who opened my car door in a parking lot was going to do. I tend to not jump to the conclusion such a person is violent...I'm more wary now. Thanks for reading and I hope the only dangerous element of where you live now are the Orcs.

Simon- You may be saying I needed more introspection...or maybe now inject it after the fact. When I thought about what flashed through my head for the two seconds I didn't give up my phone, I thought there might be a story there. Actually I thought, had this happened three or four years ago, I very well could have thought "screw it, I'm calling his bluff and I just don't care anyway" and THAT felt like the more interesting direction to take the story. A couple of months ago when this happened, I didn't think things were THAT bad and I had too much stuff to get done to die right then.

J.S.- thanks for the detailed notes. There's some cringe-worthy mistakes it seems like.

I remember being torn about Robert saying Ben's and stuttered it at first but I thought it would sound more emotional if his voice cracked...but the point of it was he couldn't get it out the first time.


One word too many on Robert lifting his head...a result of me re-writing that about 50 times.

Action over action in the altercation makes a ton of sense. I had NO idea how to write that. I tried to describe what all happened in the exchange - and you're right - I know this piece of action should take place in about 2 or 3 seconds of elapsed time. That's the first fight scene I've written. I didn't intend for it to sound deliberate...that's just the way it came out and yet another area where the script (and I) needs work.

Hey Ed, nice to see you again.

I took a read through this yesterday morning and finally found a moment to reply.  (Hopefully, the hold-up is the only part of the story that really happened to you.)

I can relate very well to this story.  I live in a pretty dangerous city, though I've only been held up twice in my life.  I'm 2-0 so far!  With both my life and my money.

Only one time was at gun point, though.  I called his bluff, (his shaky hands helped), and didn't give him anything.  But he wouldn't let me pass, so I just turned and walked the other way down the street.  After a few footsteps, I stopped pressing my luck and began running zig-zag back the way I had come.  (I heard running zig-zag works for alligators, so I figured the same might work for bullets.)  Luckily, he didn't have the balls to pull the trigger, though.

Funny enough, it took me about three-minutes to get back to the store I had come from to call the police, two-minutes for them to get there, a few more minutes to tell them what happened and describe him.  They went and searched the streets.  The dumbass was standing on the same sidewalk a couple houses down with a bunch of his friends!  He ended up getting 3 years.  He gets out in July.

Anyway, back to your story, I think you pulled it off rather well.  I'm not a big fan of stories skipping back and forth between real life and flashbacks, (and this is your 2nd I've read that does that, :-),  but I still get the drift of the story.

The scene between him and his boss kind of drags on a bit and could probably be sliced a little, the same said for him and his wife going their separate ways.

But still, at the end, I felt for him, and was sad for him.  There's nothing wrong with having an unhappy ending, as long as the reader ends up ultimately caring for the character, and I did.

And your writing was quick and to the point.  Again, not saying I don't like flowery writing, but it was a little quicker and to the point than your other stories I've read, but still enjoyed.

Good job on this one.  Glad to see you're sticking with the site.  You said you've learned here, and I think we have a lot to learn from you, not just about writing, but experiences in general.

- Mark

Mark! Glad to see that you are doing better. Hopefully everybody else with you gets better as well...that was crazy to read about elsewhere on this board...

I'll remember the zig-zag maneuver in the future...although in this case I was in my car, ignition off but my seat-belt on...I had nowhere to go and he stayed just out of my reach. I guess I'm fortunate he didn't want my car...but it's not worth much so he may thought it wasn't worth the trouble.

Thanks for seeing some progress. I'm not sure what I think of this piece but I was at least hoping for the writing to be better.

I'm sure it's a good sign that the feedback on this makes sense...what I don't understand is why I don't foresee the missteps eveyone else sees before I think it's pretty much done...or done and ready to be reviewed and posted...or whatever version of "done" you use when you hit the send button to post here. In some cases, I just don't know how to write something...but having a couple of the scenes you and other are talking about...I feel that I should have had a better feel for that.

The firing scene happened to me a little like it was played out in the script. It was weird - the guy tried to make it sound like I was getting a promotion and about to become much better off while he was getting rid of me. That happened a long time ago. It's now kind of funny to think about. That evening...not so much.

Some of the other stuff did happen too but they are a little more exaggerated in the script for the purposes of the story.

It's a nice sentiment...but I mostly feel like a cautionary tale. That's something, I guess.

Hey Ed,

I really enjoyed this. Sad little story but it was good. I feel the dialogue with the Gunman at the beginning could change a bit. Some have said to shorten the dialogue but I think maybe changing the beginning to the gunman approaching Robert and asking for his money, wallet, phone & etc to start would be better.  That way the gunman's dialgoue doesn't repeat with him saying "I'm going to count to three." I don't understand why Robert would have given the gunman the money and then the gunman demands the wallet after. I think the gunman would demand the wallet and everything in it along with the phone. So the opening could have the gunman demanding the items with Robert saying he''s not going to do it. Then the gunman says "I'm going to count to three" just the one time right after. Hopefully that makes sense. lol.

The flashbacks worked for me but again I think they could be simplified as well. Again others have said they could be shorten and I agree but I also think they could be shown we little to no dialgoue. The opening flashback could have Robert carrying out a small box in hand with his name plate sticking out. Fellow workers in the background look sad as he walks by. The second flashback again could have no dialogue and you could have the doctor shaking his head as Cathy lies in bed holding onto Robert and they're both crying. The last flashback you could have some dialogue with Cathy telling Robert she's leaving. In the dialogue she points out that he was fired and they lost the baby because of the stress Robert put her through. Again I hope this makes sense.

Overall I liked it. Sorry to hear that this was based off a true story (sort off).

Take care and best of luck should you choose to do a rewrite.

Dirk

It's a shit life and then you die... lol. I didn't like reading the boring bits either... but often that is how it is done on screen. We get an exciting bit then we get a boring bit. When reading we get the choice to skip the boring bit... when watching we don't get time to realise it is happening because the exciting bit is back on again before we know it.

Did I skip past some of your boring bits? Yes I did. But I wouldn't fast forward my way through them on screen.

The thing with muggings is that they are always a strange experience. Each one is individual. Some could go as easy as a guy politely asking for your wallet. There's nobody around, despite the guy being polite, there is definitely an ominous tone.. you know what you have to do. Or it can be instantly violent... because the mugger is scared too. They want to smash you to the ground then take your shit while you're bleeding to death. Most of them though rely on you being scared... usually they will have actually targeted you as being a likely victim and they will weigh up the best thing to do in that particular situation.

It's good to draw on real life experiences for our writing. It's what adds reality. People may use their imaginations and say that this isn't right or that isn't right... but that's what happens in their imagination. As you know, real life is far weirder than anything we can dream up.

This story was OK. Realistic. Unfortunately for that, it isn't what people want to see. Well not in droves anyway. Although it is good to give people a dose of reality they also need some fiction thrown in, just to save them from topping themselves.

Hey Ed, just gave this a read.  Not sure if I've read or commented on your other posted scripts.

Here's my 4 cents, for what it's worth.

Overall, I think this is decent to OK, writing-wise and even story-wise.

It is a bit overwritten in places, especially in the dialogue department.  You've got a 4 1/2 page script here that should probably be no more than 3 1/2 pages.  There are some very simple things you can do to cut the length down and others which you'll learn and begin to understand, the more you write - and, the more you read good, tight scripts.

Flashbacks - first thing to understand is that when you write a Flashback, if you include the person who's "thinking back", unless you give us a different age, we have to assume they're the same age as when first intro'd.  Just keep that in mind.

The way I like to write Flashbacks is close to what you did, but IMO, it's easier to read and will save yourself a few lines every time you use one.

BEGIN FLASHBACK:

INT. OFFICE - DAY

Blah, blah, blah.

END FLASHBACK.

At this point, you're still inside the Slug before the Flashback begun, so you don't need to repeat the Slug.

When you start a new Slug, you don't want to start with dialogue.  You need to "set your scene", even if it's a Slug we've already been in.

Dialogue - Dialogue can be tough for peeps, including Pro writers, as is sadly evident in so many movies.  People always recommend reading your dialogue out loud and that's good advice, but you should really take it 1 step further, before, or as you write it.  Ask 2 questions - how would I say that.  How would that character say that?  There should usually be a difference.  Dialogue shouldn't sound fake and canned.  People don't speak in perfect English.  Many time, they don't even speak in complete sentences or coherent thoughts.  Dialogue is THE BEST way to show character in your characters.  If a character's dialogue doesn't show anything, the dialogue is not "good".  There's nothing wrong with dialogue heavy scripts as long as the dialogue works in what it's meant to do.

For instance - "It's just like I explained it. You are capable of doing some work that
goes way beyond this office and this market. This opportunity frees you up to pursue that." - This is a 5 line dialogue from a character who means nothing to your script.  No reason this should even go over 2 lines.  A few lines later, this character speaks again for another 5 lines, which again, just don't matter.

Action/description - I always recommend writing as visually as possible - BUT, make sure those visuals matter.  Look at your opening passage under your new HOSPITAL Slug.  It's 3 lines long (which isn't a big deal), but in reality, it shouldn't be over 2.  We know we're in a hospital, so you don't need "hospital" bed.  Does it matter that she's covered by a "thin sheet"?  "She grips the hand of her husband, Robert." - this is awkward and for the most part, unimportant.  The lat sentence is just way too wordy.

It's always little things like this, but when you really start to break things down in a script, you'll realize that little things add up to bigger things.

Overall, although I will say I like what you did here, it doesn't really go anywhere or mean anything.  Robert is held up at gunpoint, but the majority of the 5+ pages is spent on Flashbacks that don't have any effect on the situation at hand.  And since Robert dies at the end, do the Flashbacks even matter?  I don't think so.

So, IMO, this is not poorly written or conceived, but it also doesn't pack much of a punch and none of the characters come off very real, and because of that, the emotion that I'm left with isn't much.

Hope that helps.