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Thanks for listing. This is actually a dramedy. Writing out of my comfort zone as I prefer thriller. Indeed I've gone back to thriller on a new script I'm writing... all action, help let off some steam.
I've had some comments back on this already and I'm not 100% happy with it. It reads really fast though I do know that. Most people read through in under an hour and a half. My gf did it in an hour and 20 and she's not a fast reader.
The script follows two guys, Floyd, a hulk-like, not too bright black man and Donny, an effeminate, amphetamine-addicted, gay transvestite. Two old school friends that bump into each other again and get into a scrape that sees them go on the run.
I'd say the script is almost at the stage where it's done... I just have niggling little doubts about it that I can't put my finger on right now.
Pg. 1 What is "council furniture"? I googled it and nothing obvious came up.
Pg. 1 "DONNY (30’s), very effeminate, is sitting on the toilet.." Try to avoid a passive voice when it's not needed. You could just say "DONNY, 31, very effeminate, sits on the toilet."
Pg. 1 "farts loudly, echoing around the toilet bowl... then follows through." I'm not big on fart jokes, so this doesn't do much for me, plus, what does "follows through" mean? To me it sounds like Donny follows through with slashing his wrists.
Pg. 1 How do you distinguish between a clear plastic bag and a clear plastic PRISON bag? If the bag had some sort of markings on it, that would help. Here in the states it would have a "D.O.C." or something stamped on it. Maybe even the prison name.
Pg. 2 It would be funnier if the taxi driver's window wasn't working properly and it took a little too long to roll down which would mean it would take a little too long rolling up, thus delaying his escape.
Pg. 2 I have a difficult time thinking anyone with a phone wouldn't be able to tell where a certain bus is going.
Pg. 4 Is "INT. HOSTEL - ROOM TWELVE" the same as "INT. HOSTEL ROOM"?
Pg. 4 "the sound of diarrhea has Floyd run for the exit." Again, fart jokes don't do much for me, plus, should "run" be "running"?
Pg. 8 The dialogue between Chunt and Darcy is on-the-nose. There's a better way to get the same information across without being so blunt. I'd have Chunt unable to unlock a door that bears an imprint of his name from freshly removed decals. Darcy walks up and informs him that his office has been moved for safety reasons. Chunt questions "safety reasons" and Darcy tells him that "they found a rat in that office, and that the other men hate rats, can't stand them, they want to hurt them." Some more dialogue, and then Darcy shows Chunt his "new" office, a scrawled piece of paper taped to a broom cupboard door that reads, "DEFECTIVE CHUMP". Something like that works better for me.
[list] [*]Pg. 1 What is "council furniture"? I googled it and nothing obvious came up.
Everyone in the UK, knows what that is within context of bathrooms and kitchens, etc. Bathroom furniture fitted in council homes and flats. It's hard to describe what I mean if you've never seen it before.
[*]Pg. 1 "DONNY (30’s), very effeminate, is sitting on the toilet.." Try to avoid a passive voice when it's not needed. You could just say "DONNY, 31, very effeminate, sits on the toilet."
[*]Pg. 1 "farts loudly, echoing around the toilet bowl... then follows through." I'm not big on fart jokes, so this doesn't do much for me, plus, what does "follows through" mean? To me it sounds like Donny follows through with slashing his wrists.
You don't know what it means when somebody farts and then follows through?
[*]Pg. 1 How do you distinguish between a clear plastic bag and a clear plastic PRISON bag? If the bag had some sort of markings on it, that would help. Here in the states it would have a "D.O.C." or something stamped on it. Maybe even the prison name.
Thanks yeah. I suppose I could say the bag has HMP stamped on it. All clear plastic prison bags look the same here. Again, it's a UK thing.
[*]Pg. 2 It would be funnier if the taxi driver's window wasn't working properly and it took a little too long to roll down which would mean it would take a little too long rolling up, thus delaying his escape.
[*]Pg. 2 I have a difficult time thinking anyone with a phone wouldn't be able to tell where a certain bus is going.
I have a phone and I have no idea where the buses in my city go. In my city a bus can stop every 100 yards and we have a huge network of them. Quite easy to get on the wrong bus and even get lost if you don't know the area you get off in.
[*]Pg. 8 The dialogue between Chunt and Darcy is on-the-nose. There's a better way to get the same information across without being so blunt. I'd have Chunt unable to unlock a door that bears an imprint of his name from freshly removed decals. Darcy walks up and informs him that his office has been moved for safety reasons. Chunt questions "safety reasons" and Darcy tells him that "they found a rat in that office, and that the other men hate rats, can't stand them, they want to hurt them." Some more dialogue, and then Darcy shows Chunt his "new" office, a scrawled piece of paper taped to a broom cupboard door that reads, "DEFECTIVE CHUMP". Something like that works better for me. [/list]
The trouble with that is that detectives don't normally get their own office in my country, this is a special case, the reasons for which are revealed a little later in the script. I agree about the OTN dialogue, I've rewritten this scene a few times now. Also the Defective Chump thing doesn't work either, as it isn't the right tone for the script. The cops are played straight.
[*]Pg. 1 "DONNY (30’s), very effeminate, is sitting on the toilet.." Try to avoid a passive voice when it's not needed. You could just say "DONNY, 31, very effeminate, sits on the toilet."
This isn't passive!!!! It's progressive!!!!!
ACTIVE: Donny sits on the toilet. PROGRESSIVE: Donny is sitting on the toilet. PASSIVE: On the toilet sits Donny.
Finished. Took me longer than planned, but nothing that had to do with your script. Just normal family type stuff.
I don’t know what draft this is, but I’m guessing a pretty early one. It’s pretty clean though. Not much in way of typos and that sort of thing. The “early draft” feel comes mostly from lack of character development. I’ll go into that later.
WRITING: Clean and easy to read and understand. No complaints there, other than I think the script might be a tad too white spacey. You separate a lot of lines when not really necessary. Also, quite a few orphans that would shorten the script if you got rid of them. No major issues with this,just stating that the script isn’t really 96 pages in my book.
STORY: Pretty good straight forward story that at times reminded me of Thelma & Louise. Is that a good thing? Could be. The thing with T&L is the characters. We knew them we could feel them. More on that later.
Another thing about the story that felt thin to me was Chunt and his situation. I think you need to make it more clear what exactly has happened and why things are the way they are. The whole police part doesn’t ring true to me. I know this is in the UK, but I would suggest looking into that for more accuracy.
Another thing is that I thought this was labeled comedy. You mentioned that it’s more like a dramedy. I would agree that it has some humorous situations, but I wouldn’t call it comedy. I can see the drama and some thriller and action parts, but the comedy is pretty sparse in my book. Especially when you have a lot of brutal killings and even four year olds bullying and beating up another four year old. Not much comedy in that. Or maybe that’s just me.
CHARACTER: This for me was the weakest point of this script. I understand what you were going for, but it didn’t quite get there. That’s why I felt this was an early draft. As mentioned earlier, T&L was all about character. We really felt for them every time something went wrong. I didn’t here. You can fix this though. And I don’t even think it would be hard. You just have to make us feel more and connect better with these guys.
For example, take Donny’s and Floyd’s relationship. I was never really sure what their relationship was all about. You give us some explanation towards the end, but until that point, I was pretty confused. I never knew if they were really just best friends or loved each other in a more romantic kind of way. I never understood their relationship at all. If they are just best friends, then perhaps show us Floyd looking at some girl at one point or say something to Donny about him dressing up as a woman all the time. Something that shows us that Floyd is not having romantic feelings for Donny. Same goes for Donny/Donna. Personally, I would have found it more interesting if they did have a romantic relationship. Not because Floyd is gay, but maybe he just comes to fall in love with her over time. Remember that British film when the guy finds out his gf is a guy? He still loves her and they agree to give it a try. I have a script I wrote called “A Mime Is A Terrible Thing To Waste”. It has a love relationship between a mime and a puppet. Neither are gay, but they are both all that they have. It works. I just think in your case, you need to figure out exactly what Donny and Floyd’s relationship is and then make that more clear so we the audience don’t sit there confused.
I was also confused about Chunt’s attraction to Donna. Does he know Donna is a guy? I was never clear on that.
All in all, I think the story itself is decent, but needs to be re-written so we the audience can better “feel” what you wwant us to feel. That comes in character development.
The following is just my thoughts and questions while reading.
P1. I don’t know what council furniture is. A Brit thing?
Just a quick thought on the first opening page. I’m trying to picture this on screen. We start in Donny’s apartment that is “almost decrepit”. The very next scene is an equally dingy place, but a hostel. I’m trying to think how this would come across visually. I think you might want to try to make the two places more clear that they are not one of the same. Either with establishing shots or something. Just to make sure the audience realizes they are two totally different places. Either that or make the two places completely different. Maybe Donny’s place could be all bright a sunny and effeminate just like him. Maybe everything is neat and tidy. Flowers maybe? Know what I mean? Just something so that we know we are in a completely different place when we move to the hostel.
P2. Kind of a clunky line “the window winds down, electrically”. How about “the window whirs down”.
Just curious, but how do we know the drivers are Polish and Muslim? IMO, it’s better to describe what they actually look like. Muslims can be anything. Arab, Indonesian, Somali… Two of my kids married Polish people. They look very normal to me. Maybe there are some stereotypical things about them in the UK?
P6. The flashback shows that they have been friends since way back. Therefore, I assumed that it had been a loooong time since they last met, but later in their conversations, it seems they’ve been best buds until Floyd went to prison. It seems so recent, I felt the flashback didn’t quite fit.
Also, at the bottom of the page it says, the gangster run off leaving “their” two friends. Donna and Floyd are not the gangsters’ friends…
P9. Funny. “It’s the digital age. How much space do you need?”
P10. Cops have bodyguards?
P11. Wouldn’t Floyd have know that Donny was gay for a long time? Why is he asking why he dresses like a woman?
Okay, first ten pages done. As you know, a LOT of people will say that those are extremely important as far as getting read by studios goes. We have an odd couple of long time friends who meet up again after one of them has spent some time in prison. We’ve also met Detective Chunt. At this point, I do want to know what will happens next and how Donny and Floyd’s story will work with Chunt’s. I do wish that there was a clear goal or something by now though. A problem or villain or something. Might have suggestions for that later as I read on.
P11. I’m a little confused about their relationship. It’ll be interesting to see where you’re taking this.
P13. Cunt’s office has a window? I thought you described it as nothing more than a broom closet.
P20. My thoughts by this page. I’m not one of those people who believe we have to follow formulas and by this page or that page, this or that must happen. I’m really not, but in this case I do feel that I should by now know for sure who our hero/s are and who the antagonist/s are and I don’t really. Sure, Donny and Floyd are the protags, but I have no idea who the antag/s are going to be. For awhile I thought it would be Chunt, but now you have added Julio and Rebrov, so I’m not really sure. At 20 pages in and especially in a 90+ page script, I feel I should know what the goals are here. What’s at stake? I’m still confused as well about Donny and Floyd’s relationship. They are a very odd couple. Nothing wrong with that, but I’m struggling with believing it. Sure, we’ve seen them as little kids playing together, but I need more than that. What kept them staying best friends through their teenage years and so on. You know what I mean? I know they haven’t seen each other since before Floyd went to prison, but what if Donny was the only one that would come and visit Floyd while he was there? What if you showed Donny being the one true friend by doing something like that. IMHO, that would work better than showing us how they stole donuts together when they were little. We need to know what is keeping them best friends now.
P25. Where did the hatchet come from? Was that mentioned earlier and I just forgot?
P27. Lots of killing going on. Kinda takes away a bit from the comedy.
I’m thinking all this shooting in an apartment would be rather noisy. Maybe have a suppressor on the gun other wise the neighbors would surely call the cops. No?
Maybe show us exactly what the bullet hits to make it ricochet back to Rebrov. Normally, a bullet would just end up in the wall…
There’s also something wonky with the lines at the bottom of this page.
P28. Okay, so now I can see what this will be about. IMHO, this needs to happen a little earlier, but I think you can fairly easily trim a few pages off the beginning without hurting anything. Just my opinion of course.
P29. Right now I’m thinking these guys are leaving finger prints everywhere… Also, I think you really need a suppressor on the gun or their would surely be sirens heard by now.
P30. Funny with the pepper spray.
P33. All this “I love you Donny. Don’t leave me again, Floyd.” is rather confusing. It sounds like they are a bit more than friends. Are they or not? I think that needs a little work to make things clear just exactly what their relationship is.
P34. Just curious, but how old are Donny and Floyd when they are little? Same as in the first FB? If not, you might want to add an age for them in the FB.
P36. So that’s how they became good friends. Good. Now you just need to convince us how they stayed such good friends.
P37. Some more wonky line spacing here. On p39 too.
P42. Funny as it is with another person dying by accidental shooting and of a ricocheting bullet no less, I still think you need to have something that it ricochets off. Just grazing Floyd’s forehead seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe Floyd is wearing a hat or maybe he has a metal plate in head from an accident when he was a kid? Something.
Typo in the police siren line.
Are the Doormen passed out? If not what are they doing?
P43. Lots of ricocheting bullets in this script. I’m almost wondering if the bullets are rubber. I’m also thinking it will be a recuring theme.
P47. Funny you picked a Nova! Who’d want one. Lol!
P51. You’d save a lot of space by writing INTERCUT: instead of having a new slugline every time e new person talks.
I’m having a bit of a hard time buying Chunt being so mesmerized by Donna. He didn’t strike me as someone except for a very buy the book type person.
P58. Your DAY to NIGHT transition is a bit abrupt here. Floyd opens the door to the Nova when it’s DAY, but when he appears by Donna and the cop, it’s NIGHT.
I don’t know what to think about this cop who wants sex or something from Donna. Seems a little cliche’, no?
P60. I’m glad they decided to take the cop to the hospital instead of killing him. Adds to their character.
P61. Rather clunky transition from Chunt and Flanker to the FB of teen Donny and Floyd. I’m no expert, but it seems to me that FB scenes should come after a related scene.
P65. Every channel on the internet?
P69. I had forgot all about Iltaf. Adds some curiosity on where this is heading though, so that’s good.
P77. I’m still not getting the Donna/Chunt relationship. Your script has a lot of white on the pages, which is good. Makes for a faster read, but in this case it comes a bit at the expense of character development. This script is 96 pages. You can easily trim the text you have and there will be plenty of room for your characters without lengthening the script’s page count.
P83. Good page. Gives us some insight to their characters.
P84. Would work better IMO, if Floyd says he read somewhere that heroin can be grey.
P88. The corrupt cop angle seems a little flimsy. Maybe you want to really look into how that works. Right now it comes across as not quite real. If that’s your intention, then perhaps making it more outrageous will make it work better. At least for comedy.
P91. It would be pretty hard probably to get a group of four year olds to beat up two other four year olds on film, I would think. Or maybe that can be done with CGI too. It would still be a VERY disturbing scene.
Nice ending. Very Thelma & Louise’ish, but effective none the less.
A mixed bag for me, this one. I don't think there was a single element I genuinely disliked. There were quite a few elements that I did like but also many that weren't as strong as they could've been.
Perhaps the most prominent issue I had was the tone, in that I found it very hard to pin down. The script opens with Donny holding a razor blade over his wrist contemplating suicide. It'd be a rather somber image if it weren't for the fact that he's sitting on the toilet and farts multiple times. I guess this could be an attempt at black comedy but fart gags have a way of dispelling seriousness so I don't know.
Similar tonal issues arise down the line. The scene at Julio's features a lot of extreme violence and some seriously unsavory characters that again suggest a black comedy vibe or at least an attempt to cut the overall humor with more serious stakes. But then both Rebrov's death and the later scene with the Bastard feature some cartoon physics that suggest a lighter tone.
Quite a few scenes of Donna getting used/threatened sexually as well. I wasn't sure what to make of these at all. Funny? Serious? Both? I mean, I'd say it was sort of mean-spirited but other than these scenes, Donna is treated more or less like a real character and not lampooned in an inherently negative way so I don't know.
Many scenes are played straight (e.g. Chunt's investigation) and Donny and Floyd's relationship similarly seems intended to be taken seriously. A few references to Thelma and Louise, which gave me a sense of what, perhaps, you might be shooting for but I could never say for sure. I didn't find the script particularly funny and at times it felt like a straight drama but Donna had enough one liners and there were enough attempted gags to make me think you were shooting for something more dramedy-esque.
Nevertheless, I think the tone needs to be a little more cohesive. I'm not saying it can't be funny, serious, light, and dark all in one package but as of now, it feels too disjointed.
The characters could use some work as well. Donny and Floyd were certainly an eccentric pair but I think their dynamics and relationship could both use some work. Donny is obviously the more colorful of the two but Floyd still felt kind of flat. I don't think he offers enough of a contrast to Donny to be, say, the "straight man" or the "quiet one" of the duo. He's just sort of there and while he does have a decent backstory, he doesn't come off as particularly memorable except for when his size comes into play. This isn't enough, I don't think. He's clearly overshadowed by Donny at this point. Both characters need to be distinct but also form a cohesive and interesting unit.
There were elements in the flashbacks that suggested the two were sort of troublemakers or at least often found themselves with bad luck. There was definitely a "look what fine mess we got ourselves into this time" feel to them, given what happens in the story and in their past. I liked this a lot and I think it could be used more in how the two characters relate to each other. As of now, there isn't much of that. There's some exposition about how much the two care about each other and have each other's backs but only in key moments. The other scenes feel a lot more straightforward and plot-oriented in terms of dialogue, except for a few zingers from Donna. I would've liked to have seen more old habits, familiarity, and perhaps some nostalgia between the two characters. As of now, they read sort of flat.
Speaking of the flashbacks, they definitely offer up some insight but they're sparse and the most important ones come toward the end of the story. This leaves one to wonder for a great deal of the story exactly why these two are so close. This isn't good. I think we need to get a better sense of their relationship earlier on in the story and not necessarily through blatant exposition and flashbacks. Some more subtle references and, again, behavioral traits would help, for sure.
Chunt's story was fairly straightforward. I didn't have too many gripes with it overall. I thought his backstory with Donna was sort of interesting considering how straight-laced he is on the job. Perhaps this could be expanded. Also, much of the earlier scenes with him feature a lot of blatant exposition that actually gets sort of redundant down the line. I'd try to work information about his past and present pariah status in a more natural way.
There's some fairly interesting ancillary characters that pop in and out of the story. Would've liked to have seen a few of them stick around or at least get more information about who they were. Not sure how you could work that out but it might shake things up a bit.
The plot felt pretty straightforward. I can't really think of any particular issues I had with it that wouldn't be splitting hairs. Perhaps I'll get back to you on this one.
Writing is also fine. Very cut and dry. Screenwriter-ly. Some progressive voice you might rework as was mentioned previously but other than that, not bad.
Anyway, definitely some elements I liked here. It's got potential and a good jumping off point. I just think it reads a little flat and sparse at the moment.
Hope this helps. Forgive the typos. Here's some notes to leave you off with:
pg. 10 - "Why do you like to dress up like that?" - Seems a strange question from a best friend. Wouldn't they have discussed this by now? If not, Donny doesn't really answer the question. He doesn't have to spell anything out but perhaps some kind of insightful response might be precedented.
- Might note an accent on Rebrov. At first, I thought he was British like the other characters until Julio mentions "our country."
pg. 28 - Rebrov's death feels awfully convenient. I mean, I guess the bullet could ricochet but the temple is quite the direct hit. Feels like cartoon physics here.
pg. 29 - Not sure about Floyd getting food. Plenty of gunshots previously. Think these guys would want to get out of there as quick as possible.
pg. 38 - "What if we tell them the truth?" - Mentioned earlier. Might just have this conversation happen earlier too. I also think it might be a good job to expand upon the disagreement here, so as to incorporate more conflict into the characters' relationship.
pg. 42 - Bullet ricochets off Floyd's head? More cartoon physics.
- Also Donna's frock joke makes me wonder if they actually shouldn't just go through the window. I mean, beats prison.
pg. 43 - "Nobody move or I'll execute..." - Strictly personal gripe but I think Pulp Fiction quotes are a little too obvious and overused for stories like this. People know every single line from the film at this point so it's basically dated. I'd lose it. I would keep the reference later on when Donny snorts the heroin as it's not a direct quote.
pg. 44 - "It's a bloke called, Donald." - No last name? Also what's with the comma?
- Floyd bounces back from this pepper spray awful quick. I'd imagine he'd be veritably wiped out, at least for a few minutes. This shit is no joke.
pg. 64 - The knife sort of pops out of nowhere during this flashback. Perhaps show Donny getting it?
pg. 67 - "As in all gunshot cases..." - Strange line for the news. I'd cut it.
pg. 91 - I don't buy this flashback with the four year olds. What teacher would actually do this? What prompts them to do it. I might've bought it if the kids were older but even then, I think it'd be a little too easy. Would rework.
I don’t know what draft this is, but I’m guessing a pretty early one. It’s pretty clean though. Not much in way of typos and that sort of thing. The “early draft” feel comes mostly from lack of character development. I’ll go into that later.
It took me around 5 weeks to get to that stage. It's not so much a draft as a complete third rewrite. Hence the exposition. I'm not normally one for typo's anyway. They should always be rare.
WRITING: Clean and easy to read and understand. No complaints there, other than I think the script might be a tad too white spacey. You separate a lot of lines when not really necessary. Also, quite a few orphans that would shorten the script if you got rid of them. No major issues with this,just stating that the script isn’t really 96 pages in my book.
It's difficult for me to pinpoint exactly what action blocks you mean... but I generally write per camera shot. How I perceive the camera to be working. At the same time, I'm also aware that what I consider to be one camera shot, may not be to someone else... also that I may have gotten too carried away in places, so I'll keep an eye on those in the future.
STORY: Pretty good straight forward story that at times reminded me of Thelma & Louise. Is that a good thing? Could be. The thing with T&L is the characters. We knew them we could feel them. More on that later.
I was aiming for Thelma and Louise meets Bonnie and Clyde.
Another thing about the story that felt thin to me was Chunt and his situation. I think you need to make it more clear what exactly has happened and why things are the way they are. The whole police part doesn’t ring true to me. I know this is in the UK, but I would suggest looking into that for more accuracy.
This is the thing I've rewritten three times. At first I had him being new on his first day and he discovers corruption... but that's a whole other story and I discovered that my original version didn't cover it well enough. My first draft was 137 pages.
Another thing is that I thought this was labeled comedy. You mentioned that it’s more like a dramedy. I would agree that it has some humorous situations, but I wouldn’t call it comedy. I can see the drama and some thriller and action parts, but the comedy is pretty sparse in my book. Especially when you have a lot of brutal killings and even four year olds bullying and beating up another four year old. Not much comedy in that. Or maybe that’s just me.
It has been deliberately written as a dramedy. I suppose the comedy aspects of a dramedy are relative to the plot. Although I'm aware that I should go in and find more funny moments. Indeed I cut a lot of the original
CHARACTER: This for me was the weakest point of this script. I understand what you were going for, but it didn’t quite get there. That’s why I felt this was an early draft. As mentioned earlier, T&L was all about character. We really felt for them every time something went wrong. I didn’t here. You can fix this though. And I don’t even think it would be hard. You just have to make us feel more and connect better with these guys.
I have found this script fairly difficult to write. The first draft went down great. I think I may go back to that draft and rework from there, rather than using this draft. I had a lot of character build up in early pages. I literally cut the first 40 pages or so, then completely rewrote everything else, twice.
For example, take Donny’s and Floyd’s relationship. I was never really sure what their relationship was all about. You give us some explanation towards the end, but until that point, I was pretty confused. I never knew if they were really just best friends or loved each other in a more romantic kind of way. I never understood their relationship at all. If they are just best friends, then perhaps show us Floyd looking at some girl at one point or say something to Donny about him dressing up as a woman all the time. Something that shows us that Floyd is not having romantic feelings for Donny. Same goes for Donny/Donna. Personally, I would have found it more interesting if they did have a romantic relationship. Not because Floyd is gay, but maybe he just comes to fall in love with her over time. Remember that British film when the guy finds out his gf is a guy? He still loves her and they agree to give it a try. I have a script I wrote called “A Mime Is A Terrible Thing To Waste”. It has a love relationship between a mime and a puppet. Neither are gay, but they are both all that they have. It works. I just think in your case, you need to figure out exactly what Donny and Floyd’s relationship is and then make that more clear so we the audience don’t sit there confused.
I did toy with that idea for a while... but then I got the idea of making Chunt the romantic interest and wrote that in draft 3 instead. I found it to be more of an unexpected twist. I think you'll agree there. I like to avoid cliche wherever possible. The viewer wants to see a romantic link in the script and the obvious choice is Donny and Floyd themselves. I think Chunt falls in sweeter. The relationship between Donny and Floyd is that Floyd has just got out of prison after 20 years... the reasons he was sent to prison are revealed through flashbacks. I need to make that more clear, and I think a lot of the problems have come from all the stuff I cut.
All in all, I think the story itself is decent, but needs to be re-written so we the audience can better “feel” what you wwant us to feel. That comes in character development.
I'm going to come back to this after I've written my next one... a more comfortable thriller... and do what needs to be done.
Just a quick thought on the first opening page. I’m trying to picture this on screen. We start in Donny’s apartment that is “almost decrepit”. The very next scene is an equally dingy place, but a hostel. I’m trying to think how this would come across visually. I think you might want to try to make the two places more clear that they are not one of the same. Either with establishing shots or something. Just to make sure the audience realizes they are two totally different places. Either that or make the two places completely different. Maybe Donny’s place could be all bright a sunny and effeminate just like him. Maybe everything is neat and tidy. Flowers maybe? Know what I mean? Just something so that we know we are in a completely different place when we move to the hostel.
I personally feel the differences should be obvious. The flat is dingy, but the hostel is far worse.
Just curious, but how do we know the drivers are Polish and Muslim? IMO, it’s better to describe what they actually look like. Muslims can be anything. Arab, Indonesian, Somali… Two of my kids married Polish people. They look very normal to me. Maybe there are some stereotypical things about them in the UK?
Yeah, Polish people have polish accents. They've just moved here, we don't have any long time descendents yet. So they all sound Polish. Muslims have beards and wear skull caps. I feel it is easier to say Muslim than explain how he looks and what he's wearing... especially when it is only such a small part.
P6. The flashback shows that they have been friends since way back. Therefore, I assumed that it had been a loooong time since they last met, but later in their conversations, it seems they’ve been best buds until Floyd went to prison. It seems so recent, I felt the flashback didn’t quite fit.
Floyd went to prison when he was a kid. The flashbacks show when Floyd went to prison.
Okay, first ten pages done. As you know, a LOT of people will say that those are extremely important as far as getting read by studios goes. We have an odd couple of long time friends who meet up again after one of them has spent some time in prison.
OK, I understand that I need to make the twenty year thing clear from that point. I bring that information too late.
We’ve also met Detective Chunt. At this point, I do want to know what will happens next and how Donny and Floyd’s story will work with Chunt’s. I do wish that there was a clear goal or something by now though. A problem or villain or something. Might have suggestions for that later as I read on.
Yes OK. I may need to bring one of the flashbacks forward. Maybe start with something dramatic. I hear you. Thanks.
P13. Cunt’s office has a window? I thought you described it as nothing more than a broom closet.
I can't remember the window to be honest, but I'm sure that a broom closet would have one too. The broom closet thing was actually something left over from the comedy version and only left in because I didn't want to have to write in more characters that don't do much. But I suppose most extras come free.
P20. My thoughts by this page. I’m not one of those people who believe we have to follow formulas and by this page or that page, this or that must happen. I’m really not, but in this case I do feel that I should by now know for sure who our hero/s are and who the antagonist/s are and I don’t really. Sure, Donny and Floyd are the protags, but I have no idea who the antag/s are going to be. For awhile I thought it would be Chunt, but now you have added Julio and Rebrov, so I’m not really sure. At 20 pages in and especially in a 90+ page script, I feel I should know what the goals are here. What’s at stake? I’m still confused as well about Donny and Floyd’s relationship. They are a very odd couple. Nothing wrong with that, but I’m struggling with believing it. Sure, we’ve seen them as little kids playing together, but I need more than that. What kept them staying best friends through their teenage years and so on. You know what I mean? I know they haven’t seen each other since before Floyd went to prison, but what if Donny was the only one that would come and visit Floyd while he was there? What if you showed Donny being the one true friend by doing something like that. IMHO, that would work better than showing us how they stole donuts together when they were little. We need to know what is keeping them best friends now.
OK, I'll work on rectifying all of that when I get time for another draft.
I’m thinking all this shooting in an apartment would be rather noisy. Maybe have a suppressor on the gun other wise the neighbors would surely call the cops. No?
Not on a council estate. It's quite likely somebody could get shot in front of twenty people and everyone go about their day like nothing had happened. A soldier was hacked to death in the middle of London and plenty of people walked on by like nothing had happened.
P28. Okay, so now I can see what this will be about. IMHO, this needs to happen a little earlier, but I think you can fairly easily trim a few pages off the beginning without hurting anything. Just my opinion of course.
There should be things I can do to make that happen.
P29. Right now I’m thinking these guys are leaving finger prints everywhere… Also, I think you really need a suppressor on the gun or their would surely be sirens heard by now.
P33. All this “I love you Donny. Don’t leave me again, Floyd.” is rather confusing. It sounds like they are a bit more than friends. Are they or not? I think that needs a little work to make things clear just exactly what their relationship is.
P34. Just curious, but how old are Donny and Floyd when they are little? Same as in the first FB? If not, you might want to add an age for them in the FB.
I refer to them as Little, that makes them the same age.
P42. Funny as it is with another person dying by accidental shooting and of a ricocheting bullet no less, I still think you need to have something that it ricochets off. Just grazing Floyd’s forehead seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe Floyd is wearing a hat or maybe he has a metal plate in head from an accident when he was a kid? Something.
P58. Your DAY to NIGHT transition is a bit abrupt here. Floyd opens the door to the Nova when it’s DAY, but when he appears by Donna and the cop, it’s NIGHT.
P61. Rather clunky transition from Chunt and Flanker to the FB of teen Donny and Floyd. I’m no expert, but it seems to me that FB scenes should come after a related scene.
P88. The corrupt cop angle seems a little flimsy. Maybe you want to really look into how that works. Right now it comes across as not quite real. If that’s your intention, then perhaps making it more outrageous will make it work better. At least for comedy.
P91. It would be pretty hard probably to get a group of four year olds to beat up two other four year olds on film, I would think. Or maybe that can be done with CGI too. It would still be a VERY disturbing scene.
I don't agree. I've got four boys, they fight all the time.
Nice ending. Very Thelma & Louise’ish, but effective none the less.
Thanks, I'll keep most of it on the rewrite. Thanks for your comments. I'll take all of them into regard, maybe even ones I presently disagree with, on the rewrite.
Okay, first ten pages done. As you know, a LOT of people will say that those are extremely important as far as getting read by studios goes. We have an odd couple of long time friends who meet up again after one of them has spent some time in prison.
OK, I understand that I need to make the twenty year thing clear from that point. I bring that information too late.
We’ve also met Detective Chunt. At this point, I do want to know what will happens next and how Donny and Floyd’s story will work with Chunt’s. I do wish that there was a clear goal or something by now though. A problem or villain or something. Might have suggestions for that later as I read on.
Yes OK. I may need to bring one of the flashbacks forward. Maybe start with something dramatic. I hear you. Thanks.
P13. Cunt’s office has a window? I thought you described it as nothing more than a broom closet.
I can't remember the window to be honest, but I'm sure that a broom closet would have one too. The broom closet thing was actually something left over from the comedy version and only left in because I didn't want to have to write in more characters that don't do much. But I suppose most extras come free.
P20. My thoughts by this page. I’m not one of those people who believe we have to follow formulas and by this page or that page, this or that must happen. I’m really not, but in this case I do feel that I should by now know for sure who our hero/s are and who the antagonist/s are and I don’t really. Sure, Donny and Floyd are the protags, but I have no idea who the antag/s are going to be. For awhile I thought it would be Chunt, but now you have added Julio and Rebrov, so I’m not really sure. At 20 pages in and especially in a 90+ page script, I feel I should know what the goals are here. What’s at stake? I’m still confused as well about Donny and Floyd’s relationship. They are a very odd couple. Nothing wrong with that, but I’m struggling with believing it. Sure, we’ve seen them as little kids playing together, but I need more than that. What kept them staying best friends through their teenage years and so on. You know what I mean? I know they haven’t seen each other since before Floyd went to prison, but what if Donny was the only one that would come and visit Floyd while he was there? What if you showed Donny being the one true friend by doing something like that. IMHO, that would work better than showing us how they stole donuts together when they were little. We need to know what is keeping them best friends now.
OK, I'll work on rectifying all of that when I get time for another draft.
I’m thinking all this shooting in an apartment would be rather noisy. Maybe have a suppressor on the gun other wise the neighbors would surely call the cops. No?
Not on a council estate. It's quite likely somebody could get shot in front of twenty people and everyone go about their day like nothing had happened. A soldier was hacked to death in the middle of London and plenty of people walked on by like nothing had happened.
P28. Okay, so now I can see what this will be about. IMHO, this needs to happen a little earlier, but I think you can fairly easily trim a few pages off the beginning without hurting anything. Just my opinion of course.
There should be things I can do to make that happen.
P29. Right now I’m thinking these guys are leaving finger prints everywhere… Also, I think you really need a suppressor on the gun or their would surely be sirens heard by now.
P33. All this “I love you Donny. Don’t leave me again, Floyd.” is rather confusing. It sounds like they are a bit more than friends. Are they or not? I think that needs a little work to make things clear just exactly what their relationship is.
P34. Just curious, but how old are Donny and Floyd when they are little? Same as in the first FB? If not, you might want to add an age for them in the FB.
I refer to them as Little, that makes them the same age.
P42. Funny as it is with another person dying by accidental shooting and of a ricocheting bullet no less, I still think you need to have something that it ricochets off. Just grazing Floyd’s forehead seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe Floyd is wearing a hat or maybe he has a metal plate in head from an accident when he was a kid? Something.
P58. Your DAY to NIGHT transition is a bit abrupt here. Floyd opens the door to the Nova when it’s DAY, but when he appears by Donna and the cop, it’s NIGHT.
P61. Rather clunky transition from Chunt and Flanker to the FB of teen Donny and Floyd. I’m no expert, but it seems to me that FB scenes should come after a related scene.
P88. The corrupt cop angle seems a little flimsy. Maybe you want to really look into how that works. Right now it comes across as not quite real. If that’s your intention, then perhaps making it more outrageous will make it work better. At least for comedy.
P91. It would be pretty hard probably to get a group of four year olds to beat up two other four year olds on film, I would think. Or maybe that can be done with CGI too. It would still be a VERY disturbing scene.
I don't agree. I've got four boys, they fight all the time.
Nice ending. Very Thelma & Louise’ish, but effective none the less.
Thanks, I'll keep most of it on the rewrite. Thanks for your comments. I'll take all of them into regard, maybe even ones I presently disagree with, on the rewrite.
Perhaps the most prominent issue I had was the tone, in that I found it very hard to pin down. The script opens with Donny holding a razor blade over his wrist contemplating suicide. It'd be a rather somber image if it weren't for the fact that he's sitting on the toilet and farts multiple times. I guess this could be an attempt at black comedy but fart gags have a way of dispelling seriousness so I don't know.
This has been my first attempt at a comedy. Indeed I've jumped straight into another thriller. It's where I feel most at home. Anyway, that's why I attempted a dramedy instead. It's very much meant to be a black comedy/dramedy. The fart gags were an attempt to offset the suicide attempt... plus I really got attached to the pun, where his motives for suicide had been excreted. Still gives me a chuckle now... without the fart gags, I can't use that line.
Similar tonal issues arise down the line. The scene at Julio's features a lot of extreme violence and some seriously unsavory characters that again suggest a black comedy vibe or at least an attempt to cut the overall humor with more serious stakes. But then both Rebrov's death and the later scene with the Bastard feature some cartoon physics that suggest a lighter tone.
Quite a few scenes of Donna getting used/threatened sexually as well. I wasn't sure what to make of these at all. Funny? Serious? Both? I mean, I'd say it was sort of mean-spirited but other than these scenes, Donna is treated more or less like a real character and not lampooned in an inherently negative way so I don't know.
Many scenes are played straight (e.g. Chunt's investigation) and Donny and Floyd's relationship similarly seems intended to be taken seriously. A few references to Thelma and Louise, which gave me a sense of what, perhaps, you might be shooting for but I could never say for sure. I didn't find the script particularly funny and at times it felt like a straight drama but Donna had enough one liners and there were enough attempted gags to make me think you were shooting for something more dramedy-esque.
Nevertheless, I think the tone needs to be a little more cohesive. I'm not saying it can't be funny, serious, light, and dark all in one package but as of now, it feels too disjointed.
The characters could use some work as well. Donny and Floyd were certainly an eccentric pair but I think their dynamics and relationship could both use some work. Donny is obviously the more colorful of the two but Floyd still felt kind of flat. I don't think he offers enough of a contrast to Donny to be, say, the "straight man" or the "quiet one" of the duo. He's just sort of there and while he does have a decent backstory, he doesn't come off as particularly memorable except for when his size comes into play. This isn't enough, I don't think. He's clearly overshadowed by Donny at this point. Both characters need to be distinct but also form a cohesive and interesting unit.
Yes, Floyd is missing closure. He has no real arc aside from living and dying alongside Donny. I think that is what's missing there, he needs to learn something/change in some way... come of age.
There were elements in the flashbacks that suggested the two were sort of troublemakers or at least often found themselves with bad luck. There was definitely a "look what fine mess we got ourselves into this time" feel to them, given what happens in the story and in their past. I liked this a lot and I think it could be used more in how the two characters relate to each other. As of now, there isn't much of that. There's some exposition about how much the two care about each other and have each other's backs but only in key moments. The other scenes feel a lot more straightforward and plot-oriented in terms of dialogue, except for a few zingers from Donna. I would've liked to have seen more old habits, familiarity, and perhaps some nostalgia between the two characters. As of now, they read sort of flat.
Speaking of the flashbacks, they definitely offer up some insight but they're sparse and the most important ones come toward the end of the story. This leaves one to wonder for a great deal of the story exactly why these two are so close. This isn't good. I think we need to get a better sense of their relationship earlier on in the story and not necessarily through blatant exposition and flashbacks. Some more subtle references and, again, behavioral traits would help, for sure.
Yeah, both you and Pia have picked up many of the same points. Much thanks.
Chunt's story was fairly straightforward. I didn't have too many gripes with it overall. I thought his backstory with Donna was sort of interesting considering how straight-laced he is on the job. Perhaps this could be expanded. Also, much of the earlier scenes with him feature a lot of blatant exposition that actually gets sort of redundant down the line. I'd try to work information about his past and present pariah status in a more natural way.
Yeah, as I said to Pia it's one area that has changed three times now. I'll get rid of the exposition there.
There's some fairly interesting ancillary characters that pop in and out of the story. Would've liked to have seen a few of them stick around or at least get more information about who they were. Not sure how you could work that out but it might shake things up a bit.
Yeah, I'll see what I can do with some of those. Also maybe cut some of the killings and create some real arcs.
The plot felt pretty straightforward. I can't really think of any particular issues I had with it that wouldn't be splitting hairs. Perhaps I'll get back to you on this one.
Writing is also fine. Very cut and dry. Screenwriter-ly. Some progressive voice you might rework as was mentioned previously but other than that, not bad.
Anyway, definitely some elements I liked here. It's got potential and a good jumping off point. I just think it reads a little flat and sparse at the moment.
pg. 10 - "Why do you like to dress up like that?" - Seems a strange question from a best friend. Wouldn't they have discussed this by now? If not, Donny doesn't really answer the question. He doesn't have to spell anything out but perhaps some kind of insightful response might be precedented.
They haven't seen each other in twenty years. My fault for not making that clear in the script. I'm sure in one of the drafts I wrote they did mention that. I think the flashback where teen floyd is arrested may be good there... although I'll hide the reason for the arrest and just show Teen Floyd being arrested. I'd still rather not reveal exactly why he had to go to jail till near the end.
pg. 28 - Rebrov's death feels awfully convenient. I mean, I guess the bullet could ricochet but the temple is quite the direct hit. Feels like cartoon physics here.
pg. 29 - Not sure about Floyd getting food. Plenty of gunshots previously. Think these guys would want to get out of there as quick as possible.
That was left over from when I had these two as being completely mad... but I realised that the characters had little to like about them, so rewrote it. I may just write what I like rather than trying to write what I think other people want me to.
pg. 38 - "What if we tell them the truth?" - Mentioned earlier. Might just have this conversation happen earlier too. I also think it might be a good job to expand upon the disagreement here, so as to incorporate more conflict into the characters' relationship.
- Also Donna's frock joke makes me wonder if they actually shouldn't just go through the window. I mean, beats prison.
Yeah again left over from when they were more nutsy. Donna actually stops to lip synch a tune before leaving in an earlier draft as they had actually gone there to rob the place. I changed the tone and left some stuff in thinking it could fly.
pg. 43 - "Nobody move or I'll execute..." - Strictly personal gripe but I think Pulp Fiction quotes are a little too obvious and overused for stories like this. People know every single line from the film at this point so it's basically dated. I'd lose it. I would keep the reference later on when Donny snorts the heroin as it's not a direct quote.
- Floyd bounces back from this pepper spray awful quick. I'd imagine he'd be veritably wiped out, at least for a few minutes. This shit is no joke.
I've been hit with it before, a little bit. It stung. From what I've seen, people react differently to it. Some people can bounce back quite fast, others end up in hospital. I met a guy once that got sprayed by a police officer, he then got so angry he ripped the spray from the officer's hand, pinned him to the ground and sprayed him in the face with it. One way to get yourself four and a half years. I'll write that better, just thought I'd share.
pg. 91 - I don't buy this flashback with the four year olds. What teacher would actually do this? What prompts them to do it. I might've bought it if the kids were older but even then, I think it'd be a little too easy. Would rework.
Well that's twice now somebody has pointed to that. I suppose I'll have to handle that a little differently.
Went over the comments and tried to explain myself on a few comments. Hope that helps. If you have any questions, just let me know.
I still haven't finished mine. Between getting ready for Christmas and such, my head is spinning in all different directions!
This is just an example of what I meant with almost too white spacey. There's nothing really wrong with it and it does make the read quick, but it also adds a lot of extra lines making the script longer than it really is, IMHO. I do know what you mean about writing shot by shot. I do that too. In this case though, it was just something that hit me while reading. That along with the orphans probably add several pages to this script.
Julio hurries into the
HALLWAY
and opens the FRONT DOOR.
Rebrov pushes past him
REBROV There are people coming here soon.
and walks into the
LIVING ROOM
where he stops to appraise Brunette. She scowls and turns away, unimpressed.
About Chunt and his history. I did get that part about the corruption and such. I sort of guessed that, but wasn't quite sure.
About the shooting in the apartment. I see. I just didn't know what a council estate was. I'm assuming government housing here in the US?
About Chunt being mesmerized by Donna. Probably because in my head, she's a guy dressed up as a woman. I thought he would see that. Also the club where Donna dances seemed to be a gay club. I must have misunderstood that part if it was for straight guys. That's why I assumed Chunt was a pretend straight guy who goes to gay clubs. Did that murk up the water more or did that make sense?
About the four year olds fighting. I know boys tend to fight, but I was thinking finding "actors" not regular boys.
Went over the comments and tried to explain myself on a few comments. Hope that helps. If you have any questions, just let me know.
I still haven't finished mine. Between getting ready for Christmas and such, my head is spinning in all different directions!
I've slowed down myself now with xmas just a week away. Everyone is getting excited. I'm finding it hard to concentrate. First day in ages I haven't written a single word. As xmas gets nearer, I really can't see me getting much done.
About Chunt and his history. I did get that part about the corruption and such. I sort of guessed that, but wasn't quite sure.
Yeah, I'm hazy on it myself. So I'm not surprised that isn't 100% clear. Like I said, I may replay the police with a more comedic tone. In the first draft I had the investigators as being inept, but then felt one of them should be straight, then I wrote them all straight.
About Chunt being mesmerized by Donna. Probably because in my head, she's a guy dressed up as a woman. I thought he would see that. Also the club where Donna dances seemed to be a gay club. I must have misunderstood that part if it was for straight guys. That's why I assumed Chunt was a pretend straight guy who goes to gay clubs. Did that murk up the water more or did that make sense?
He's not stereotypically gay. I felt no need to bring it up until I revealed that he had an intimate relationship with Donny/Donna. It's a male strip club, for gay males. But I get what you mean now, I should indicate that it's a gay bar... but then again there are also male lap dancers walking about etc. I'll think of some way to make that clearer.