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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Short Horror  ›  Kosher - SSC2WC
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  Author    Kosher - SSC2WC  (currently 2699 views)
Don
Posted: February 23rd, 2017, 9:10am Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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2nd Draft
Kosher by Cameron Dueker - Short, Horror - A late night pit stop for a young couple turns deadly at a local deli when the kitchen runs outs of pastrami. 15 pages - pdf, format

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1st Draft
Kosher by Cameron Dueker - Short, Cannibal Horror - Kosher - A late night pit stop for a young couple turns deadly at a local deli when the kitchen runs outs of pastrami.  16 pages - pdf, format

Writer interested in feedback on this work



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You will miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
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Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Don  -  June 16th, 2017, 7:46pm
revised draft
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Steven
Posted: February 23rd, 2017, 9:24am Report to Moderator
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I get what you were going for, though there were some slight issues.

The first one being that Josh turns to John, and then back again. Also, when you said "glum Gus," I thought you were referring to another character.

Some of the dialogue was a bit expositional, like at the end with the city clerk. Other than that it was fun, and could be better with some polishing.
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CameronD
Posted: February 23rd, 2017, 9:37am Report to Moderator
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Thanks, changed John into a Josh early on and thought I caught all the prior uses.  The end gave me some fits trying to wrap it all up quick to fit in the 15 pages. I didn't want Ethel to die cause the villain always sneaks away and I wanted some kind of unnerving twist at the end. That was the best I could come up with but I'm open to other ideas.


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Steven
Posted: February 23rd, 2017, 9:42am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from CameronD
Thanks, changed John into a Josh early on and thought I caught all the prior uses.  The end gave me some fits trying to wrap it all up quick to fit in the 15 pages. I didn't want Ethel to die cause the villain always sneaks away and I wanted some kind of unnerving twist at the end. That was the best I could come up with but I'm open to other ideas.


The idea of a "deli on the outskirts of town serving human meat" is good, for sure. But how about making Ethel a larger woman? Think of the cliched diner employee and it would work here, at least that's what I'd do. That way, it's believable that Ethel can hold a 20 something year old man at bay while she slices his hand in a meat slicer.

If you wanted to expand this, show Edsel collecting people for meat. Maybe they have an accomplice at the local hospital who brings them people that have just died? Something along those lines.
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CameronD
Posted: February 23rd, 2017, 9:45am Report to Moderator
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I agree. Edsel was until the very end an EMT at the scene of the traffic accident who was bringing the bodies by to mom to carve up. But it was clunky to explain all that at the end, though I have a better idea how now how to do it.


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Steven
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Quoted from CameronD
I agree. Edsel was until the very end an EMT at the scene of the traffic accident who was bringing the bodies by to mom to carve up. But it was clunky to explain all that at the end, though I have a better idea how now how to do it.


Kidnapping unsuspecting people and then transporting them to the diner would probably work better. Too much of a paper trail for an EMT to go out on a call, then collect the body, but not show up to the hospital?

By the way, check out mine - American Cannibal.
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Pale Yellow
Posted: February 23rd, 2017, 12:50pm Report to Moderator
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Out of the gate I super love your title and love your logline. For me, this is where it all begins. If I do not like the title or the logline is hard to read and complicated I'm already dreading reading but this is a great job and I'm actually looking forward to reading this....so taking notes as I read along.

A phone battery dies. Sex in the bathroom. Horror for you lol teasing but sex and dead batteries always find their way into these things it seems.

The dialogue is really good in this. The writing is easy to read.

"put some real meat in my mouth" ... seriously? LOL

typo pg 5 downby

Well... this was good. Well written and fast to read. Great dialogue. Felt like real people(crazy of course).

GREAT job writer.
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Dreamscale
Posted: February 23rd, 2017, 12:58pm Report to Moderator
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I read the whole script.  Lots and lots of problems on every page...actually too many to really go into detail, so I'll just address some story issues and a few of the major things you could easily fix up.

Basically, this is a story we've all read and seen many times before, and there's nothing here to make this fresh, memorable, or even remotely believable.  In fact, much of this reads like a comedy...not sure if that's intentional or not, but for me, it doesn't work at all.

Your setup out of the gate is very problematic, as it's very unclear where they are, which is important to your story.  Sure, this could be shot or even set anywhere, but for the sake of the read, it needs to be somewhere we can get a clear visual of.  Using "CITY OUTSKIRTS" doesn't work for me at all.

Then you go to "JOHN'S CAR", but the characters in the car are Josh and Amber.  I think you go back and forth with either the male being Josh or John.  The funny thing is that the 2 names are so close, it doesn't matter at all which name you decided on.

Neither character has any character at all.  Neither seems real, and because of that, I really don't care about either.

Back to the setup and the dialogue that tries to set things up - it makes no sense at all, and is obvious very little thought went into this.  Where are they coming from?  Where are they going?  Where is that there's basically only 1 road or freeway to get to where they're going - just doesn't make sense about a 9 hour drive vs a 5 hour drive coming in.

Same issue when we get to the Kosher Deli - you didn't set it up, so we can "see" it, and how the action plays out inside.

In the same scene, without any breaks, Officer Larry is eating his sandwich, then walking "out" past the counter, where Ethel is.  Way to much unnecessary banter in this scene, also.  Just doesn't work or come off remotely believable.

Then, at this "counter" Ethel has samples of meat to hand out?  And the meat is just so amazing?  I don't buy any of this.

From here, it's completely predictable and cliche.

The stuff about the frozen gun, and then being thawed under water comes off as very hokey - could it work?  maybe, but here, it reads very false.

The stuff about slicing Josh's hand in the slicer reads very false and laughable.

The stuff about the fight with the arm and broom?  Man...no...

Sorry, but nothing here that I can see is gonna work, but you did meet the challenge and very few were able to, so good on you.

Hope this makes sense and helps.
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CameronD
Posted: February 23rd, 2017, 4:02pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks Pale. It was fun to write so I'm glad you thought it was a fun quick read. Of course I had to put in a sex scene. This couldn't be a real horror film without one!

And thanks Dreamscale. Very helpful input and I agree on most of it. Sorry for any comma abuse. We don't get along I fully admit. It's something I really need to work on.

The John/Josh stuff I thought I caught and will redo in the revision. But you are right that Josh and Amber are boring. I think it might build character to make Josh a bit of a weakling which would help explain how Ethel beats him up so easily. Of course with no mean on his bones he wouldn't be good to eat, but that makes for a good line to throw in.

I will go back and add in more detail about where they are at and driving to. You are right about overusing CITY OUTSKIRTS.

I liked the frozen gun. Would it really work the way I wrote it? It worked for the story. I'll let the mythbusters decide if its confirmed or not.

The WHOLE idea was centered around the meat slicer. I should probably make a bigger deal off it in that case. In college, I worked many years at a deli and always thought it would make for a great location in a horror film. Those slicers are no joke the idea of one slicing a person into extra thin or thick cuts horrified me. For research I googled circular meat slicer accidents. Not a good idea. Ewww! Yuck!

I hope Ethel was liked. I pictured as a bigger old lady instead of a frail and weak one but I see now I didn't describe her that way. I'll fix that next time.

So for now I'll try to squeeze in some more character to Josh and Amber as well as better cement what they are doing. I'll cut down the dialogue when they walk in with Officer Larry to keep the story moving. Sex scene is staying. Frozen gun is staying. I'll expand the hand slice scene a bit more and make Edsel the EMT once more with fresh bodies delivered to mom. Hopefully that won't kill the 15 page limit. That's a lot to cram in, but I know I can do it.

The hard part is staying away from cliché. It's a horror movie. There are so many clichés involving horror it's hard to avoid them all. I instead tried to embrace them with my own take. I think that's what most horror is these days anyway. The execution is more important than the premise.


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grademan
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Hey Cameron.

I don't think I'd call this full on horror -- more of a horror light. The scene with the slicer had me pulling my hand back! So that was good. The title, logline and breezy style all work together to give it that horror light feel. The cop at the end clinched it.

A  few nits "Jewish bitch" and "put some real meat in my mouth" were too much.  Mops aren't the most punishing weapon available in a kitchen. Didn't know a frozen gun wouldn't fire (too bad Mythbusters has ended).
As far as story and characters adjustments, nothing to suggest that wouldn't change what you're doing.

Gary
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MarkItZero
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This definitely has potential. The story is a simple "trapped with a crazy killer" type deal, which is fine, as long as the execution is great. If the characters are compelling, dialogue is tight, and descriptions are vivid, I'll enjoy the hell out of this story.

Biggest issue is the characters. Josh and Amber just don't have any personality. Here's a suggestion character-wise...

Maybe make Josh domineering and Amber unsure of herself. So he makes a bigger deal about her frequent bathroom breaks. He snaps at her for taking too long to decide what she wants to eat. Amber could initially not want to return her food with the hair but he forces her to go back and confront Ethel. In the end, Amber toughens up and believes in herself and survives.

Of course, that's just one idea. Do whatever you think works best for this story. But you gotta give the reader some reason to stick along for their journey.


That rug really tied the room together.
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CameronD
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Quoted from MarkItZero
This definitely has potential. The story is a simple "trapped with a crazy killer" type deal, which is fine, as long as the execution is great. If the characters are compelling, dialogue is tight, and descriptions are vivid, I'll enjoy the hell out of this story.

Biggest issue is the characters. Josh and Amber just don't have any personality. Here's a suggestion character-wise...

Maybe make Josh domineering and Amber unsure of herself. So he makes a bigger deal about her frequent bathroom breaks. He snaps at her for taking too long to decide what she wants to eat. Amber could initially not want to return her food with the hair but he forces her to go back and confront Ethel. In the end, Amber toughens up and believes in herself and survives.

Of course, that's just one idea. Do whatever you think works best for this story. But you gotta give the reader some reason to stick along for their journey.



Ooh! Even better! Make Josh a jerk and douche so the story is more about Amber. That's simple yet great. Perfect! That's why  I love collaborating. The give and take between minds is so helpful. I read somewhere long ago that was Hitchock's favorite thing to do, BS'ing about the film during the concept stage. At that point, the movie was already made in his mind. All that was left to him after that was the boring part. Actually filming it.


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Conz
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On page 3, and I could already cut/tighten a lot of this dialogue.

That sex scene came out of nowhere... unless the humam pastrami is an aphrodisiac?  I'll keep reading.  ... oooff that meat in my mouth line...

There was no buildup to this at all.  Pretend people who don't know the challenge are reading this.  There should have been ominous hints and foreshadowing before the human head reveal.  You could still do that in a short.

Why would her son say "I'm back from the store?"

Ethel's son's name is Edsel?

I do like the thru-line of the accident playing in the script, I'll give you that.

A wet gun wouldn't fire if I'm to believe movies I've seen.  Dabbing it with paper towel wouldn't do the trick.

Eh, maybe there's a good story here, but this felt rushed.  The dialogue was shaky and there wasn't any buildup.  Stuff just happened.  Sweet old lady all of a sudden becomes murderous cannibal.  Good effort, but needs work.




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DanC
Posted: February 24th, 2017, 1:54am Report to Moderator
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Hey, Cameron, I'm gonna read this and let you know what I think:  Here goes:

Page 2 you say, John and Amber.  Isn't that Josh?


If Officer Larry has a rotund belly, don't we need to know that in the description of him?

Wait, I thought Amber had to pee first??

And wouldn't the patrons know they both went in there?

You know, I thought this was gonna be a comedy the way your logline reads, it isn't.

I also can't imagine this old lady doing all this fighting...

You say that she's landing real blows on Josh, but, just one segment down, you say how they are stalemated.  When did that happen??

Wait, so, the old lady kills a cop, and DOESN"T take the gun??

Why would Amber run away when the old lady is locked in the freezer??

You have Amber firing the gun, then stepping over the kid's body.  I think we need to know the gun hit him, fatally...

Not bad.  Tighten it up a bit, fix the Josh/John, give them a bit of a personality, make the son not handicap,  and this is pretty solid.

Dan


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Thanks
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ChrisBodily
Posted: February 25th, 2017, 4:48am Report to Moderator
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Cameron, the whole Jo(s)h(n) thing confused me, so I'll pass and then come back and re-read.


FADE IN:
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