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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Drama Scripts  ›  The Rising Moderators: bert
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  Author    The Rising  (currently 1643 views)
Matthew Taylor
Posted: July 19th, 2019, 11:24am Report to Moderator
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Ok I read it

1) This movie is not about Jason, not in the slightest lol so who gives a rats ass about his motivations - makes my examples look stupid because both of those were main characters (will teach me to comment before reading the script). But...
2) you give us enough of his motives and mindset before the shooting anyway, through the interview with his mother - most importantly, you give us Stanley's perceived motives, which is important to this story (The fact he blames himself)

To be honest, I would go the opposite way and instead of giving us more about Jason, I would give us less - he gets too much attention in a story that is not about him - I would keep flashbacks, but instead, I would show them from the victims POV, not Jasons. (A lot of the time, the scenes contain too much-talking heads, flashbacks would break this up - more visual.

I have jotted down notes as I went along - I'll post them up later when I get time.

I don't think my earlier advice was wrong - it's just not applicable in this case because of how unimportant Jason, as a person, actually is to this script.


Feature

42.2

Two steps to writing a good screenplay:
1) Write a bad one
2) Fix it
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Night_Writer
Posted: July 19th, 2019, 12:13pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor
Ok I read it

1) This movie is not about Jason, not in the slightest lol so who gives a rats ass about his motivations - makes my examples look stupid because both of those were main characters (will teach me to comment before reading the script). But...
2) you give us enough of his motives and mindset before the shooting anyway, through the interview with his mother - most importantly, you give us Stanley's perceived motives, which is important to this story (The fact he blames himself)

To be honest, I would go the opposite way and instead of giving us more about Jason, I would give us less - he gets too much attention in a story that is not about him - I would keep flashbacks, but instead, I would show them from the victims POV, not Jasons. (A lot of the time, the scenes contain too much-talking heads, flashbacks would break this up - more visual.

I have jotted down notes as I went along - I'll post them up later when I get time.

I don't think my earlier advice was wrong - it's just not applicable in this case because of how unimportant Jason, as a person, actually is to this script.


Hey, dude.  LOL.  I was just about to post my response when I saw the above post.  In any event, here's what I had written...


Quoted from Matthew Taylor

Anyway - I was originally only trying to touch on Mike's comment about shying away from the motivation for fear of making it look like a justification for evil acts - and wanted to express that can hinder characterization and to not be afraid of tackling these things.
I have no idea if it's relevant to this story - I feel inclined to read this thing now lol


Matt, I have the utmost respect for your views.  But I'm afraid you're misunderstanding my meaning.  And it's hard to debate one who hasn't read the script.  (Please understand, this isn't an attempt to shame others into taking the time to read my stuff.)  But I fear we're trying to debate from two entirely different planes of existence.

I completely understand your comments in your initial post.  And when applied to examples like "Avengers: Infinity War" and "Law Abiding Citizen", it makes perfect sense.  I don't disagree with that at all.  

But here's the thing...

There are no superheroes in this script.  There's no large, lavender-tinted villain wreaking havoc.  

When involving incidents like school shootings (or mass shootings in general), it's different.  It just is.  We're talking about a ubiquitous societal epidemic that can rear its ugly-ass head any moment and whose wounds are achingly fresh.  As a writer, if I create a character strikingly similar to any one of these real-life school shooters and I make them the least bit sympathetic, it's not the same thing as creating a comic book villain. It isn't.

I get your objections.  I get Steve's objections, too.  My answer to that at this point (though a rewrite is definitely imminent) is... that's fine.  I heartily invite the audience to draw their own conclusions as to Granger's motive.  (Well... readers instead of audience... getting a little ahead of myself there.). Is it really a problem if art invites debate?  I myself opted not to attempt any clear explanation.  The conclusion of the narrative arc is Stanley's (and Mae's, too)... not Jason Granger's.  That's the decision I made.  This is a love story, first and foremost.  If it inspires debate, I'm actually okay with that at this point.

Yes, I know filmmakers have attempted to understand shootings in the past.  Director Paul F. Ryan made an admirable attempt in a 2002 movie called "Home Room."  And, despite solid performances from Busy Phillips and Erika Christensen, what clear-cut answer was provided?  At the end of a stupefying two-hour-and-twenty-minute runtime, there wasn't a clear answer.  ("Elephant", by contrast, clocked in at eighty-minutes, same conclusion.  Given the choice, I'd rather watch "Elephant" again.  Though it's, by no means, perfect.  Didn't care for the ending.  I get that Van Sant was going for a no-rhyme-or-reason conclusion, but I felt he could have accomplished it better with a concluding scene that wasn't as clunky as "eeny-meeny-miney-mo.")

---------------

But I see now you've addressed those arguments I was struggling with.

Thank for the read!  Appreciate it.

--Mike


Drama Feature Screenplay:  The Rising
https://www.simplyscripts.com/scripts/therising.pdf
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Matthew Taylor
Posted: July 19th, 2019, 3:10pm Report to Moderator
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hmmm - feel like you are miss understanding me, and hanging on the superhero thing too much.

Point is - the best characters are multi-layered with feelings, motivations, hopes, fears blah blah blah - even the bad ones, the terrorists, murderers, school shooters. I didn't say create sympathy towards them- no one feels sympathetic to a school shooter - just don't be affraid to show their human side (no matter how flawed) think Ted Bundy in "Extremely wicked" or Hitler in "Downfall".... that's all I was trying to say in my long winded and unclear way lol

Anyway, I'm detracting the thread from the script as this point is not relevant to the story.

Just putting my kid to bed, then I'll try and decipher my own notes and put them into something hopefully helpful



Feature

42.2

Two steps to writing a good screenplay:
1) Write a bad one
2) Fix it
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Night_Writer
Posted: July 19th, 2019, 3:49pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor
hmmm - feel like you are miss understanding me, and hanging on the superhero thing too much.


Well, you have to remember that when I wrote the above post, I thought you still hadn’t read the script and that you were still approaching the subject matter from a different perspective.

I get your point, but I stand behind what I posted.

That said, I greatly appreciate you taking the time to read and review.

Mike






Drama Feature Screenplay:  The Rising
https://www.simplyscripts.com/scripts/therising.pdf
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Matthew Taylor
Posted: July 19th, 2019, 4:02pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Night_Writer


I get your point, but I stand behind what I posted.

That said, I greatly appreciate you taking the time to read and review.

Mike




That's cool - world would be a dull place if we all just agreed all the time lol


Feature

42.2

Two steps to writing a good screenplay:
1) Write a bad one
2) Fix it
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Night_Writer
Posted: July 19th, 2019, 4:20pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor


That's cool - world would be a dull place if we all just agreed all the time lol


Dull indeed!  And in theory, I agree 100% with what you posted.  Absolutely.  It's just that, for me, the subject of school violence is something I want to handle with a delicate touch.

Impressionability.  Maybe that's it.  Maybe's that's my hangup.  I mean, if the average person watches a show about a notorious serial killer, seems unlikely they'd be influenced to kill.  If a troubled teenager sees a movie that depicts a sympathetic view of a school shooter... I dunno.  I worry about sh*t like that.

But in any event, I'm 100% behind what you posted.  Thanks.


Drama Feature Screenplay:  The Rising
https://www.simplyscripts.com/scripts/therising.pdf
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DustinBowcot
Posted: July 19th, 2019, 4:44pm Report to Moderator
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Matthew's point isn't about depicting a sympathetic view of the shooter. He's suggesting that you make the characters more real rather than cardboard cut-outs or heavily cliched characters. People do evil things, doesn't mean they do evil things all the time. Some serial killers have happy family lives. Make great neighbours. The only time one sees their bad side is if they're unfortunate enough to be a victim. Otherwise, they're great people.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: July 19th, 2019, 4:45pm Report to Moderator
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In fact, some of the nicest people I've ever met have been murderers.
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Night_Writer
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
Matthew's point isn't about depicting a sympathetic view of the shooter. He's suggesting that you make the characters more real rather than cardboard cut-outs or heavily cliched characters. People do evil things, doesn't mean they do evil things all the time. Some serial killers have happy family lives. Make great neighbours. The only time one sees their bad side is if they're unfortunate enough to be a victim. Otherwise, they're great people.


Yep.  I get that.  Agreed.


Quoted from DustinBowcot
In fact, some of the nicest people I've ever met have been murderers.


I've got a couple on retainer.  


Drama Feature Screenplay:  The Rising
https://www.simplyscripts.com/scripts/therising.pdf
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Matthew Taylor
Posted: July 19th, 2019, 4:58pm Report to Moderator
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Alright, here we go.

I'm not trying to tell you how to write, or how to tell your story - below is just my opinion so take what you agree with, disgard the rest.

I'm actually glad I read this - You got a nice emotive story here. Strong subject matter about how an event like this affects so many people, not only in the immediate aftermath, but decades later.
I don't think the subject matter will set you back (I know you have fears of that) - but it is relateable and current - a good director should easily see it's commercial value.

FYI - the below may seem overly negative, but that's only because I am concentrating on the things i think can be improved - overall, the writing was decent and I enjoyed the story (Side note: I had to skim towards the end as I was at work, apologies if I missed something that I comment on)

First some writing stuff - some of these are small and petty, but when they are repeated frequently they can add up to taking away from the read/make the script look a bit messy.

(into phone) - I think you had this every time he spoke on the phone, we know he is on the phone because he jsut answered this - the parathentical is superfluous.
"G20" was in dialogue - numbers need to be written as they are said "G twenty"

There's a lot of unfilmables in here - I get you are trying to set an atmosphere, but try and keep it visual as possible "smell of death in the air" - like, what is a filmmaker supposed to put on screen to convey that?
The prose needs work, some of it felt like it belonged in a novel, not a screenplay - another example "kids hes known, hung out with and laughed since kindergarten" - convey what we can see, as it is happening, keep us in the moment - anything else is just extra words for no reason.

The biggest culprit for overwriting I found was this:


Quoted Text
Off in the distance, just above the tip of a hill... a sunset. Something about the way the sun hits the clouds, and the rays of light... so sharp, so fine, as though they were reaching down to caress the land.

A view so majestic and infiltrating, it's as if God wanted Henry and Henry alone to witness it.


Very poetic but don't belong in a screenplay - look how many words you have used, and what will we see on screen? sunset and clouds

I do like a good parenthetical - but you overuse them - you need to be brutal and ask yourself "Is this really needed?" for example....

STANLEY
(calls out)
Hello!

He has just walked into an empty house and you have added a ! - we know he calls out

FYI - great name for the protagonist - it's my son's name  


Quoted Text
MAE (V.O.)
Hi, I'm Mae, and I'm an alcoholic.

AA MEMBERS (V.O.)
Hi, Mae.

INT. CHURCH BASEMENT - AFTERNOON


I learnt this just the other day - in this instance, you can use PRELAP instead of V.O - as PRELAP is used for sound from the next scene that starts in the previous scene (I got what you meant with V.O. but PRELAP gives it that profesional edge)

Quite a few instances of double information and too much information

Double info:


Quoted Text
In the corner of the backyard sits a small greenhouse. Stanley approaches, enters the

GREENHOUSE


You have told us twice we are in the backyard (it's in the slug) and twice there is a greenhouse - sharpen it up with something like


Quoted Text
Stanley walks to the back corner and enters a�

GREENHOUSE


Too much info:


Quoted Text
Scott cranks down the passenger-side window.


We know he is sitting in the passenger seat - so if you just tell us he cranks down the window, we will assume it is the passenger window

some scenes were just not needed, and others it felt like we entered them too early or left too late - or both.

Example: the scene with him being on the Cessna plane - it literally added nothing other than $$ onto the budget. again, you have to be ruthless with your own scripts - ask yourself the questions "If I cut this scene, what do I lose?" - in this case, nothing.

At the begining, he enters Bannon's office on page 8 - and we stay there for 5 minutes (If I was watching this, I would probably have turned off at that point) it takes too long to convey what it is we need to see/hear/feel - too much buffer get's in the way.
(If I was making this, the first two characters I would cut is Ken and Gabriela - I don't see what their purpose is)
But not only that, when we finally leave the office we are with Stanley and Bannon outside for another 5 minutes - that's 10 whole minutes - and in my opinion, too long - you can't cut all of it, obviously, some important stuff in there, but you can sure as hell trim it right back.

I think that's it for writing stuff - I have given a few examples, but there are others that are of a similar vein.

If you sharpen it up and cut the deadwood - I think you can shave a lot of pages off of this (I have been told that for a first time writer trying to sell a spec, shorter scripts are more attractive - around the 90 pages mark)

Stanley - I feel like I am not really clued into his inner battle throughout this, he keeps it bottled up (bottled up from the other characters is fine, but as the audience, i want to see his inner struggle). I didn;t know he was blaming himself (or had an inkling) until the end - it's mentioned he hasn't been attending his alcoholic meetings but the cravings never appear in the story. I struggled to really get invested in him.

I was also surprised at how open everyone was at speaking their mind - like everyone. It seemed that whatever was bothering them, they were open and honest about it - even in the beginning with the rocky relationship, Stan and his wife jsut spewed out their feelings like they were in therapy.
He is trying to get people to talk about something devastating - I expected a bit more resistance

Henry talking about his daughters "I like that, daddy" habit was sweet - I really like that breaking down of his shell to show his humanity and feelings.

The story (the one Stanley is writing) - it's a bloody mystery lol I don't know what it is, why it is so important, we don't see or hear any of its contents. I can't get behind the outer goal of creating this story if i'm not clued in to what it's about - is it literally just a piece to see how everyone is feeling 20 years on? we are told it is important, but I can't feel it's importance.


Quoted Text
STANLEY
In that classroom? I was in the front row.
Jason was two feet away. Looked right at me.


A few pages ago, we had a flashback of the shooter in the room - during the flashback, Stan was not mentioned - we didn't see the above happen at all - why? It is much better to show this powerful moment than simply telling us in dialogue - put this in the flashback.

Speaking of flashbacks - (I mentioned this in a previous post) - But i would have them from the victims POV - this is a victims story, not Jason's. having his POV only distracts from it. It would also break up some of the talking heads scenes.
Give us these - piece by piece to tease us - We see a brief flashback from Stan early in the script, in that flashback is Jason entering his room and they make eye contact END FLASHBACK - then later, towards the end with the Stanley breakdown that he thinks it's his fault, we see the next bit - Jason shoots everyone but him.

I think I have banged on long enough now.

Again - It seems overly negative but I am just picking on the stuff I think can be improved - overall I really liked it and I think with some tidying and focus this is a movie that could easily be made

Good work - I hope something I have said is vaguely useful (Sorry for spelling mistakes, I'm writing in a rush)

Matt












Feature

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Two steps to writing a good screenplay:
1) Write a bad one
2) Fix it
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Night_Writer
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Yes!  There is so much here that will help me in the rewrite.  Words cannot express my gratitude!


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
I'm not trying to tell you how to write, or how to tell your story - below is just my opinion so take what you agree with, disgard the rest.


I know.  No explanation necessary.  Nobody's skill set ever improved from having smoke blown up their ass.  Criticize away...



Quoted from Matthew Taylor
There's a lot of unfilmables in here


Yes.  I was aware of that as I was writing.  I cheated, especially toward the end.  That was me throwing the rulebook to the wind.  I'll own that one.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
I learnt this just the other day - in this instance, you can use PRELAP instead of V.O - as PRELAP is used for sound from the next scene that starts in the previous scene (I got what you meant with V.O. but PRELAP gives it that profesional edge)


Huh.  Never knew that.  We learn something new every day.  Thanks!


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
Quite a few instances of double information and too much information


Thanks for pointing these out.  It should help shave pages off.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
At the begining, he enters Bannon's office on page 8 - and we stay there for 5 minutes (If I was watching this, I would probably have turned off at that point) it takes too long to convey what it is we need to see/hear/feel - too much buffer get's in the way.
But not only that, when we finally leave the office we are with Stanley and Bannon outside for another 5 minutes - that's 10 whole minutes - and in my opinion, too long - you can't cut all of it, obviously, some important stuff in there, but you can sure as hell trim it right back.


Absolutely.  I definitely need to cut this down.  A lot.  I feel like Stanley needs to get back to Angelica sooner.  Right on.

I've pasted everything you wrote onto a separate document.  It'll come in very handy on the rewrite(s).  Thanks so much, Matt.  Have a good night!  (I keeping forgetting you're about six hours or so ahead of me.)

--Mike


Drama Feature Screenplay:  The Rising
https://www.simplyscripts.com/scripts/therising.pdf

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Night_Writer  -  July 19th, 2019, 6:01pm
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