so am i correct in assuming 60 pages is roughly an hour of film?

Roughly, if the format is correct and the writing style is correct.  That's what the guidlelines say.

If you're writing for television, fourty-four (to forty six) pages is an hour, because broadcasters like to insert a lot of commercials.

Gotta love television, so i wonder what they would do if you write more than that. What if the full script is so great and it goes past that mark? You know Oz one of the best series about prison went past the 1 hour mark many times probably because they were so good the handlers didn't want to cut down what works

OZ and THE SOPRANOS are HBO ORIGINAL SERIES'.  Each episode is produced "feature-film style," and originally aired without commercials.  When other networks buy those shows, they add in commercials, and they run overtime.

Of course but they can still run overtime if the network likes it, you don't think Show Case would let it run overtime if it wasn't a good show

Wrestling tho it's not a show per say it still runs overtime and so does That 70's Show once in awhile

When THAT 70'S SHOW, or the recently deceased FRIENDS, or *shudder* WILL AND GRACE, run overtime, they call it "super sized episodes."  Those episodes are roughly thirty two minutes of content, and THIRTEEN minutes of commercials.  Damn advertisers.

All this talk about commercial advertisements, show overtime, and all this other stuff makes me glad I have aspirations to be involved with television at all, that is until they offer me anything higher than a dollar.

I'd take a dollar if it got my foot in the door!

Anyhoo, I have an e-mail buddy who used to write for pro-wrestling.  A lot of it is in screenplay format.  Really interesting stuff.  The matches are mostly improvised with only key moments, and the results, scripted.  But the "story" parts of a wrestling show are scripted much the same way a television show or a movie would be scripted.  Some writers write dialogue for specific dyads (pairs of wrestlers), but they write that dialgue under the supervision and guidance of the person (or wrestler) who created the character, and they write it in the context of a story that's already been planned for that clip or center-stage (ring) discussion.  They produce content at almost the velocity of soap-opera writers.  Now my rant is focused on soaps.  If I could write for any soap in the world, I'd write for PASSIONS.  God, I love that show.

How many pages are there in each act? I thought it was 30-60-30, but this site says different:

http://jclarkmedia.com/film/filmguide.html

If this is wrong, can someone direct me to a site that explains the corrects amount of pages for each act and what should happen in them. I know I saw this one site that used the Matrix as an example and it seemed like a good site with a lot of info, but I forgot the address. So, can someone help me out?

It sounds right to me.

The rule is however, there is no rule. For a 2 hour movie the structure would most likely be "30-60-30" but for a 3 hour movie, the structure changes dramatically.

You can make your acts shorter and or longer if you need them to be. There is really no set formular, don't let anyone tell you different. In fact, write without acts at all. Just write the movie and fit everything you can inside of it, within 120 pages to 130 pages and you'll be alright.

the rule you speak of is a good rule... but it's not the back bone rule.

I like to make my movies "30-60-40" it gives me some time to wind down the story and make for some intense action in the end.

thanks guys

Hi,

I have a short that I wrote a while back. It's not very good but I'd like to improve it so that I can possibly put it on the site. The main problem is it feels very rushed. I have improved my writing skills (I think) since I wrote it, so there may be ways I can change this without making the script longer, but I have a feeling it may need more to give it a better pace. So...

How long should a short script be? I don't want to make it a feature length script because to me, it isn't that kind of story. I want it to remain a short, but I'd like to make it longer than it is (it's currently 16 pages). Does anyone have any idea what the maximum length of a short is? How long can I make it before it's considered to be...well...a Long?

Thanks for any information.

Ian
:)

Shoot for 22 or 25 pages. I like to do 22 pages for all my shorts.

By the way... I'm a master at writting shorts. I've wrote well over 47 of them in the HORROR genre.  I love shorts, they are the best form of writting, cause you have so little time to make them good. You have so little time to develope characters and you have so little time to make everything come together.

When writting a "GOOD" short, it test the writer and challenges the writer to do the best he can.

I've almost come to a point where if I can't say it in 20 to 25 pages... I don't even wanna bother with it anymore.

This however is just me.

A short does not have to be 22 pages.  A short can be 6 minutes, it can be 40 minutes,  it can be an hour, there is no "rules" really, because shorts are not exploited like features to make maximum profits.

The Hours and Times by Christopher Munch was 60 minutes and won Special Jury Recognition at the 1992 Sundance Fest, because it was so good but not a feature.

Do what you feel is neccessary within your means to best convey your story.  If you're making a short, you're obviously not trying to make a blockbuster film, so do your best to make the best film or video possible.

That is why.... at the end of my post I said "THOUGH THIS IS JUST ME"....... Some people lol!

I like to average 22 minutes a screenplay for my shorts. I can say the most and express the most in that little ammount of time.

You can write a 6 pages short or even a 3 page short... it's all up to you. However, if you wanted to make the most of it... shoot for 20 to 25 pages.

Balt.

Quoted from baltis, posted July 20th, 2004, 1:15pm at here it's all up to you. However, if you wanted to make the most of it... shoot for 20 to 25 pages. Balt.

Why dont you elaborate on how shooting 20 to 25 pages "makes the most of it," as opposed to any other number.

How long does a script have to be? And at what font because i dont know how much is too much, and how much is too little.

Liljo

I write in final draft so I have never wondered what the font was, probably 10 - 12 times new roman or courier works for people, usually depending on length (I wouldn't know because I've only written one full length script that was finished) Though between 90 and wherever you can imagine up there is a good length.

One thing I did notice is that unless it's a very action oriented script or you're very good with what you do don't go up into LOTR type pages, thats even too much to read the script.

I dont think as long as it's above 90 pages you'll be fine.

Just to clarify for anyone just reading, the font is almost always COURIER 12 and the length is usually between 100-120 pages long - 130 maximum. I'm using Final Draft now too and it really is a big help.

Quoted Text the length is usually between 100-120 pages long - 130 maximum.

I heard that it's now 95-120 pages now. What I heard was wrong, yes?

I think anything from 90-120 for a new writer would suffice. If you were an established writer, you would probably be able to lengthen the script ....

The general rule is a minute per page in proper format.  A typical film script is anywhere between 88 to 130 pages.  A half-hour TV show is 22 to 24 pages, and an hour program is 44 to 47 pages.

I'm trying to write a 1-hour drama TV script (just for fun, nothing too serious).  But I'd really like to make it have the appropriate length.  I've heard that 47-50 pages is about right, what do you guys think, is that right? longer? shorter? thanks in advance

It's about right.  You have to remember to leave room for commercial.

Next time you watch such a show, time it.  And mark off when the commercial come on.  That's important, too.


Phil

You kinda can't write in commercial breaks because most of the time they happen way to much every few minutes but I'd say over 40 and under 60 nobody will complain because really it's up to you. If it's too long you can cut scenes and get the right length

Modern day 1-hour TV shows actually run about 44 minutes...which is around 42 pages on a screenwriting program like "Final Draft".

Hope that helps.

Recently I've been writing a script called the American Dream that I posted the treatment for in the treatment workshop forum. It was going well and I finished writing my exploratory in about two weeks .. the problem? It's a total of 67 pages.

I don't know what happened - I thought I explained the story fully and left no loose threads and the conflict was well defined and brought out, so I thought.. I've added a few scenes here and there but I don't want to add miniscule scenes that will take away from the story and make it boring. Anyone have any ideas?

If it is as full and complete as it can be, then don't mess with it. Dumbo is a classic and it is only 61 minutes. I'd say see what feedback you get on your 67 pager, and if it's a go, go ahead with it.

I might ask, what size font did you use? That might make a difference.

Here's an idea:  tighten it until it's a 45 page TV pilot, then write a "series bible", and try to sell the idea to a network.  Or if you don't want to chop it, let me do it!  If you e-mail the script to me (in Word .doc format), I'll edit it into a TV pilot, and I'll send you that edit within the next 48 hours.  

You would have to rename it since there is already a TV show called The American Dream.

Editing it as a pilot could be your best bet, depending on the story. You could edit it a bit, leave some loose ends so that it could be weaved through subsequent episodes. But then, the original draft of El Mariachi is between 45 and 50 pages (give or take) and it turned out to be a full length movie.

12 pt font to George Willson's question .. and I think that's a good idea about the TV pilot - there is a big loose end because it's a political drama that follows a president fighting for reelection - but it sounds like the West Wing and there's the title: the American Dream .. something to think about.

That being the case, I would agree that a TV series pilot would be a very good idea, especially since you have somewhere you can go with it.

I always use 12pt Courier (default for scripts) I wrote two pilots, originally a 2 part (buffy, i think, had a 2-part pilot.) I then re-wrote the pilot, Now the come up to about 45 pages, (46,w ith title page) and that's only cause I write the end creits in, with characters etc.

Danny

My scripts, come to about 45 mins in length, which is about 45 mins on TV, but is 1 hour in totale (4 acts, breaks between acts 1, 2 & 3, then act 4 is final act.)

How many pages is the proper length? Or the least you think one should be?

90-120 pages for a feature? My idea.

That's about right.... though my last one runs 145.

should be aiming for a minimum of 80-90 pages

If you go with TV pilot, as an episode, then I'd say about 45-50 pages. You could write it into a TV pilot movie (Buffy & Sabrina The Teenage Witch) and then write it into a TV series.

Just my thoughts.

Danny

I, myself would actually say 75 Pages feature. I have problems with page lengths, like my horror 'The Devils Transplant' which was supposed to to be a feature, but only ended up being 15-17 pages lol Anyway, we'll not go into that...My current script in progress is like 28 pages at the moment..and I need to hit the target of at least 75, even though it's supposed to be 100 minutes. Anyway...who knows?

Try for a target between 95-100 pages which works out to around 95-100 minutes (idealy 120 minutes max).

A thing to remember...when you're in the planning stages (hopefully there is one!), to help things along in regards to length, try this:

1-10 pages -- introduction of main character, set up roles.
20th-30th page -- introduce you first 'spin'. Indicates end of act 1. Spins us towards setbacks to main characters to reach goals.
60-70th page -- another spin. End of act 2. Spins us towards climax and resolution.

Act 1 is about 30 pages
Act 2 is about 60 pages
Act 3 is about 30 pages

The three act structure will help you keep the screen length good. If you run out of storytellin' or ideas then it either means:
A. You haven't thought the story through enough
B. You haven't developed your characters enough
C. Basically, the story can't be developed anymore to keep it interesting. See TV pilot or short.

Look up the 3 act structure online. It can be really useful!
Hope this helps!
MacDuff
:-)

So...then 30 pages wouldn't be considered a short? Oh damn...

-ONEY

Shorts can range from 3 to 45 pages depending on the type of short you're going for. For the festival ciruit, you should be shooting for no longer than 10 minutes, preferably 5. For, say, a TV drama, 45 pages would be a good length. If you're getting towards 50 or 60 pages, it's probably best to flesh it out to feature length.

My original thought on this is there is no established length for a short. It's a film that is shorter than a feature length film or around 90 pages. But length is not exactly what defines a short; it's the way the story is told. I have two shorts posted. One is 18 pages and the other is 52. Is 52 pages too long? Not necessarily because 1)it took that long to tell the whole story and 2)it ONLY took that long to tell the story.

I decided to check around on the net to see if there was an established offical short length and I found this: http://www.dartmouth.edu/~shortflm/drafting/writing_short.html  

The short answer is that there is no established length; it's just shorter than a feature film and cannot be marketed as such. Everyone has their own opinion about what length they like, but I think you just write until you end the story.

According to imdb and their submission forms, a short is 45 minutes or less.

Awesome, then. I got this 30+ page script, and I intended it to be a short, which I will film eventually. But this dude I know told be a short has to be 15 pages only. Now, obviously, I know that's bullshizzle.  ;D

.... Sorry I said "shizzle."  :(

I have to ask three questions:

How long is a 30 Min. episode?

How long is a Hour episode?

How long is a full Movie?

sorry to be a smart arse but....


1. approx 30 minutes.

2. approx 60 minutes

3. approx 90 minutes...

no how many pages should the scripts be. for each questions. Like How long would a 30 minute episode be for a script. and same with the other questions. So basically how long would each script be/

Well, i was told that a script page is equal to a minute, making 30 mins=30 pages, etc. But most episodes of a TV show would be 25 pages, (commericals fill the last five mins)

Hope this helps more han my last post!

A 30 minute Sitcom: 42 - 52 pages.
A 30 minute Drama: 28 - 34 pages.

A 60 minute Drama: 45 - 55 pages.

A 90 minute Movie, Comedy: 90 + pages.
A 90 minute Movie, Drama:   110 + pages.

I'm basing this on the Script Templates they have in Final Draft where they give the average page numbers for a lot of different shows.

Edward

How come the pages change for different genres?

In my opinion:

I think that the nature of the movies change the length of their scripts.  In a drama, they're would be more dialogue explaining the story, where as in a comedy, it would take more action or less dialogue to move the story along.  Obviously, this doesn't count for every drama or every comedy, but in the most general way this is how they play out.

But, each different script has to go by its own standards.  These are only guidelines of industry standards so people don’t give them 412 page scripts.  You have to decide based on your story you want to tell and how you want to tell it, how long your script should be.

Edward

A 30 minute sitcom is that long because the entire script is double space creating what amounts to 30 second per page rather than the standard minute. They are written this way so that the actors can make notes on the script and have plenty of room to do so.

And in bigwhoop's defense for his first answer...I thought exactly the same thing...also just to be an arse.

I don’t know much about the format of television scripts but I do know something about the time lengths of television programs. You need to take into account any interruptions in programming when you consider the script length.

On television:

A half hour program with commercial avails is generally 21 ½ to 22 minutes long.

An hour program with commercial avails is generally double that.

Infomercials and other paid programs which have no commercial avails are usually 28 minutes and thirty seconds or 58 minutes and thirty seconds.

This question may have been asked before, or maybe not.  When figuring script length and running time, does running time (like on the back of the movie box) include the credits?

For example, How to Lose a Guy in Ten Days box lists 115 minutes.  I take that to be 115 pages of script/ 115 minutes from fade in to fade out.  Am I correct?

I ask this because after a several month hiatus, I have come back out of the closet (not the gay one) and resumed writing.  I have added several scenes that I feel add more punch and give minor characters a larger role.  I want to make sure that I don't go over that 120 minute mark since this is a romantic comedy I'm working on.

I appreciate any and all comments.

To answer the question, the run time on the back of the box starts with the beginning of the main titles (i.e. New Line Cinema presents) to the end of the credits, which is why Return of the King's 200 minute running time only runs for about 185-190 minutes...it's that marathon credit list that takes the time up. If you are trying to think main and end titles in order to keep the film under 120 minutes, you would go for around 110 pages.

Frankly, however, it is best to just write your script first and worry about length later.

George,

Thanks for the input.  I haven't found myself worrying about length until now.  I'm sitting at 195 pages and feel that I need about another 10-15.  I'm sure that once I've added a few things I can go back and delete some of the once must have scenes.  

Wow, that's pretty long. Well, worst case, if you find that all of the scenes are necessary or you lose some depth by cutting, find a good division point somewhere in the middle and make it a two-parter. While there is no guarantee it will make a big screen premiere, you might get a mini-series out of it. However, if the story is solid, there is a chance someone might take something with a ready-made sequel like that.

sorry, that was a typo.  I have 115.  195...LOL.  Love Actually was originally in the 190-200 page mark, but then again, it had a little more depth than mine.

In respect to the original poster, who has not yet commented on this rather silly turn of events, could we keep it on topic? This conversation is quickly going no where....in fact, it started at no where.

Back on topic: Love Actually, IMO, had waaaaaaay too many plots for its own good. There were a ton of deleted scenes on the disc and I'm sure more that were cut before hand. I'm sure the cuts were not that difficult in a script like that one. I mean, Lord of the Rings only had 3 main plots to follow in the central part...

Quoted from bitteroldman sorry, that was a typo.  I have 115.  195...LOL.  Love Actually was originally in the 190-200 page mark, but then again, it had a little more depth than mine.

Believe it or not, the first draft of my romantic comedy 'The Odds of Love' would have been around 200 pages had it been properly formatted.

I ended up going back and rewriting, and in that process found that I had my protagonist telling the same stories over and over to different people.  If you're really worried about cutting it down, you could probably find at least one instance of that in the script somewhere.

George,

I can see how you would say that about Love Actually.  Can't say that I agree, but understand how you see it that way.  I'm not really a fan of movies that are more than 1hr 45-50 min, but am willing to sit through them if they are good.  

Mike,

I can't say that I've really duplicated anything in my script.  What's concerning me is that after a few months of no writing, I finally feel that I'm just a few changes away from what I've had contest judges and another writer friend tell me are changes that add more punch to the story.  Maybe not, but I believe so.

As for the gay humor, that's really subjective, as is any comedy.  Some will like it, some won't, and others simply won't get it.  That's a chance you take as a writer when choosing to go down the road of Comedic Screenplays.  BUT LET ME SAY THIS: if we don't have gay humor, then we shouldn't have straight humor.  Maybe we shouldn't have black/white humor or even religous humor.  As long as we're cutting to the chase, let's do without gender related humor, fat/skinny humor, and retarded (mentally handicapped or dumb) or smart people humor.  Is this overboard?  Of course.

I write to please me first, then you.  If it offends, I make no apologies.  That's not me being an arse, just saying that what I write is what it is.

All of this has been typed with a smile on my face and no discontent towards anyone.  Forums/e-mails can be impossible at times to understand the tone with which the words are written.  I appreciate those that responded to the thread with thoughts on my question.  For the one that I made laugh, glad I could be of assistance.  For those that didn't like the humor...maybe next time.

Good day all.

Hey, this one's got some spunk... He kinda moved himself under the lava lamp for a moment there...

See that's where you go wrong, judging by your name I think it says it all about you as a writer... Bitter. You think comedy is in cliche jokes about things but I assure you it is not nor will it ever be.

Anyway I'm sick of this topic, I'll leave you to bitter it out.

Wesley,

As this site's presumed judge, jury, and executioner, I must say that you are completely wrong.  As this is My thread, the only opinion I asked for was one about running length of films...not your socio-political beliefs.  You felt the need to give me your  personal views...of which I wasn't soliciting.  If this were the thread about one of my scripts and you were to have said this, that would be perfectly fine.  

Cliches or not, humor is anything that people find funny.  If you would care to, I'd appreciate a post, in this thread, of your scripts that are posted on this site.  Maybe then I can read them and possibly get a better insight as to who you are.  Should you care not to do so, that will be fine too.  

I joined this site to provide myself a way to ask for public input.  Your comments don't anger me, but simply ammuse me.  I welcome anything you have to say in the future, but please, check you weapons at the door.

My forum name, in fact, comes from the date that I registered when I was just a few short months from turning 30, which I have since done and don't hate nearly as bad as I thought I might.  (although a game of hoops the other day proved that I'm not the 22 year old I once was)  It doesn't reflect who I am as a writer.  And while I may or may not write from personal experiences, my writing most certainly doesn't type-cast me.  If it did, it would pidgeon hole me as a hopelss romantic.  If I were indeed bitter and let that leak into my writing, why would I be writing Romantic Comedy and not song lyrics for Avril Lavigne?  Just food for thought...something to think about...something to chew on...or any other cliche you wish to insert for me will do just fine.

Quoted from Old Time Wesley Anyway I'm sick of this topic, I'll leave you to bitter it out.

Does anyone else see the irony there?

bitteroldman, as far as I know, Wes has been here longer than any of us. Sure he's opinionated but he does a good job of keeping this forum in check and seperating the time wasters from the members who actually contribute.

I think you've presented your counter-argument pretty well and I agree with your thoughts on comedy. I, for one, chuckled at your closet joke and I doubt too many would find it offensive.

Before I get berated for going off topic, I hear 90-100 pages is a good length for a comedy.

Good Dr.

Thank you for the response.  I've heard/read that as well about length.  I've also heard/read that you should leave it at what it comes to becaue the re-writers will cut and trim and add.  I guess I'm just curious for contest sake and even finding an agent.  I don't want to scare them off just because the screenplay simply because it has 120-123 pages.

And I am left to believe that Wesley the protagonist is also Wesley the curse, but maybe not.  I understand that He's been here for quite a long time and don't disrespect that.  Maybe, just maybe (fingers crossed) I too can be a member that contributes.

Quoted from bitteroldman   I guess I'm just curious for contest sake and even finding an agent.  I don't want to scare them off just because the screenplay simply because it has 120-123 pages.

Most of the contests I come across will have some kind of page "gauge" if you will, between 90-120, 90-140, even 90-150, so you may be able to get a general idea in that sense.  As far as agents and prodcos go, well we've all heard the stories of the last page look.

In my own personal experiences I have completed first drafts that I ended up rewriting and actually extending by quite a bit.  One script went from 94 pages to 125!

So my advice to you would be to do what you think feels right.  As long as it doesn't turn into a four hour epic(unless it actually is a four hour epic ;D) you should be fine.


Mike

Mike,

You must know who I am in my real life...the man trying to write the four hour CBS Sunday Night Movie :'( ;).  (I should be so lucky)  I think I should really just finish it as suggested and then worry about the length at its proper time.  

In an effort to know some of you a little better, I'm going to try and read The Odds of Love later this afternoon (provided my boss doesn't come by)

Thanks again.

Wesley can be the antagonist sometimes, but I think he more or less tries the patience of newcomers to see if they can handle the type of criticism often given for storylines and scripts around here. If you can get past this period where he seems to hate you for no reason, you'll do fine. I like your sense of humor. I think you'll fit in well without much of any problem.

As for me, while I'm not going for the CBS movie, I am writing a big grand epic that currently sits at 3 screenplays, 2 shorts, a TV pilot, and 5 episodes. That's a lot of pages. It's quite the sleeper hit, since those who read it tend to like it.

Just to add a little...If you're writing for independant production companies, you are most likely looking to write (or re-write) a script between 90-105 pages long. The independant companies simply can't afford to shoot a 2 hour movie, regardless of the genre. I've completed 2 horror movies, one at 98 pages, the other at 103 pages.

This is not the norm mind you, but something that I've come across. There are 'big' independant studios that can throw anywhere from $5 million upwards into a movie, but most likely you'll be presented with a budget under $1 million or even $500,000. Every page costs $$$ for the producer.

:-)

PS - welcome to the board.

I do remember reading somewhere the estimated cost per page, budget-wise, for an average movie. I just can't remember what that figure was. I know there were several based on genre, period, etc. Anyone else remember seeing this at some point?

Now that's some great info that I haven't even begun to think about.  I would love to know what the stats are on that.

Have you guys submitted to any script contest?  I just sent one to page awards and the said a TV pilot of 40-70 pages.

I enter the contests semi-regularly, for both shorts and feature length scripts.


Phil

thanks phil- do they reply to you without a cost?

Are you referring to feedback?  Very few do.  You can find a list of competitions that do (as well as what people think of them) at:  http://www.moviebytes.com/contests.cfm?category=Feedback


Phil

I'm writing a virtual series and I was wondering if the pilot episode should be the same length as the series or if it should be twice as long as the series.

It's up to you, boss.  My advice would depend on the length of the show.  If it's an hour long show, then I saw go for the two hour pilot.  But if it's a half-hour show, stick with the half-hour.  You might tease the viewers too much or bore them to death with an hour long episode.

A lot of anime pilots are the same length all the way through, they just use "To Be Continued's" which I think work a lot better than one long episode.  It keeps people wanting more.  

It's all a matter of personal taste and your target audience. Generally speaking, pilots will run the length of a standard episode so they will fit into the episode's time slot and no adjustments have to be made. If it is double-length, ensure that it can be cut in half to still fit, since that might eventually happen. For a virtual series, there is no time slot, so the sky's the limit. Unless it will have a devoted audience though, it is a lot better to make it the length of the regular episode instead of double length.

Okay, that makes since. It's just the TV shows I watch, the season and series premieres are usually hour long if the show is 1/2 hour.

For certain shows, you need a long exposition.  For instance, in a fantasy series pilot I'm currently writing (if you can call it that, we're not past the teaser yet), we needed to make it double-length to introduce the fantastic setting and show the catacylism in the pilot (so we needed before and after scenes).  In Alias, the pilot was absurdly long, because they needed to unravel the starting plot as well as the big change.  In the West Wing, it was a 45 minute pilot, because it's an episodic show with a simple premise - the only exposition they really needed was of the characters.

In terms of pages, what is the most popular Act break down? I've heard different things, especially for the first act.

I don't think this will really affect my draft, but it's a good thing to know what the popular concensus is.

Thanks.

I've heard that ...

... ACT 1 = 1-30
ACT 2 = 31-90
ACT 3 = 91-120 ...

... that's one thing I've heard.

That's about right. The acts are seperating by what are known as "Turning Points" - some inciting incident that leads the story into the next phase.

I guess I should warn you though, there are writers out there that don't believe in the 3-Act structure. But from what I've worked with and developed, the 3-Act structure works for me.

I personally don't think about the three act structure when I write my scripts.  I tell the story.  If the story includes the three act structure -- whateva, man.

Same here. I just write the thing and don't even worry about any Act structure.

-Chris

I do as well. I just outline the story first. Some act structures I heard put the first act at 15 pages, which to me seems way too short.

Thanks guys.

I use to do the 3 act structure. I felt it helped me pace better... Now, I just write everything down that I want in the movie and go from there.

I'll literally write scenes all about my script doc and paste them in various places. If I know I want a scene, I'll write it out and then slap a new scene in front of it or behind it. Once I have a pretty good amount of scenes I'll begin to piece the movie together.

Maybe think about your script like a movie and your filming it on spot. Maybe you can't shoot the opening today, but you know you want this scene in the movie so you write it today and place it where it needs to be later on.

That's how I've adapted into writing and it's working rather well. I've completed more work in the last 4 months than I ever have... Of course it's all brilliant too.

I don't follow any traditional act structure myself, but I usually try to establish my conflict somewhere between pages 30-50, and spend the rest of the script trying to overcome it.

My scripts start with a beginning and an end, and in some cases a few scenes in the middle that I conceived, but for the most part just the beginning and the end, and I just start and work my way toward it.  

Usually at some point I start to conceive more scenes and eventually get ahead of myself, pretty much laying out from the middle onward, so it kind of works out nicely for me.

If I'm not mistaken, Gorsford park had an extremely long exposition.  It was still interesting, however, although far from the standard Hollywood format.  The act-page division is of course no more than a loose guideline - ending the exposition on page 21 or 19 doesn't matter in the slightest.  I would translate it into the following single rule:

Make the second act the longest of the three acts, about twice as long as each of the other acts.

And even that would be a loose guideline I have no intention of following.  If I ever resort to using an act-page guideline, it will be to check the pacing of my first draft and help with the re-write.  The first draft itself should be purely written, IMNHO.

Actually, act one generally ends around page 20(ish) with the first major plot point that changes the main character's life. It does this almost regardless of the movie's overall length. The first Harry Potter movie is a little over 2 hours and yet when is Harry picked up? About 20 minutes in. The Lord of the Rings is incredibly long when you consider it as a single film, and yet when does the end of the first "act" occur (i.e. when does the main character's life change irreversibly)? About 45 minutes in and remember that this film has a long prologue leading into it. So 45 minutes into a nearly 700 minute film. This means you have to get the basics out of the way and get into the story quickly. Give yourself twenty pages to kick it off, and from there, let it flow. The first act should probably adhere to the 20-odd page rule more strictly than the others just because you've got to get the story moving.

George. Sounds to me like you're talking about the "Inciting incident" at page 20ish. (I was taught this should happen around page 15ish), but I completely understand what you're saying.

Thanks for the info guys.

What is the suggested length of a comedy script?

Gawd... Why is everything so screwed up in here? Everything is off to the side, slanted and really big for me in here. Strange.

Anyways, I'd say about 80 to 100 pages.  The bad thing about comedy, just ask QUEER DANE COOK, is that if you force it. It's not funny... See, a good comedy, much like a good comedian.. Basically, everything Dane Cook isn't... centers around unforced, quick, punchy, on the fly material to get it through.

To cram anything more than 80 to 100 pages into one... I just don't see it being funny. Hell, I'm puking my nuts up when I see 3 minutes of Dane Cooks unfunny ass on stage.

Comedic genius is hard to come by. That's why no one is funny... They don't grasp what funny is. I've seen Jerry Seinfeld's and the one thing that makes him great... He's relaxed, never rushed, still as a cat in a Chinese kitchen. He doesn't force anything. He's also very good on the fly... Watch some of his acts. You'll notice that he can be in the middle of one joke, see that it's not going over well and lead it right into one that will.

That is a King of Comedy.

Not Chris Rock, Dane Cook, Whoopie no talent Goldberg, Billy Crystal, Sin Bad and so forth and so on.

So basically, after my rant about what is and isn't funny... That you don't give PISS N' A CAT DISH to hear ---> 80 to 100 pages. Tops. Don't force it.

I don't watch much comedy, but in all scripts the rule of thumb is one page=one minute (that's why the rigid format is important).  For a 90-minute script, I agree with Balt.  But most scripts now a days are two hours, so that would be 110-125 pages.  As long as it's funny, however, anything between 80 and 125 is acceptable.

The basic answer here is 90-120 pages just like any other script. A comedy is just a drama with laughs...or it should be. You've got to have your basic plot, and that will usually work out to the standard length. A comedy is just funnier than a straight drama.

I hear a lot that comedies should be somewhere between 90-110, but since most of my stuff goes over 110, I'll say 90-120 and agree with George.

The Wedding Crashers script is 112, by the way.  Just make it funny, and the length can be overlooked.

Alot of people will say 90-100, but I think you can go up to 120.  Anything over that is pushing it.  As funny as 40 Year Old Virgin was, the 130 minute extended edition was really pushing it.

My "Scorsese Club" has received some criticism because it used to be something like 117 pages(it's 111 now), but there's plenty of dialogue so on film it would probably be 100 minutes or so.

You never want a comedy to lag.  Reading paragraph after paragraph of action is a great way to turn the reader off.  So, in conclusion, up to 120 with plenty of dialogue.  That's what keeps a comedy moving in my opinion.

some comedies get quite long, as good as it gets was like 2 hrs and 20 min, same with the 40 year old virgin and Spanglish, but I think most on average are 90 min.

It depends on how funny the material is. most comedies are only about an hour and twenty minutes to an hour and thirty. 40 year old virgin was about 2 hours (not counting deleted scenes) and it was hilarious. The script for Clerks was 144 pages, and that was great and they managed to fit it into an hour and thirty...two minutes, I think. It just depends on how funny it is and how it accompanies the story. Just don't OVER do it and it should be fine.

I was wondering for a series what the average number of pages of an episode. :-/

Thanks,

KEVVVVIIIIINNNNNNN ;)

For half an hour minus commercials, I'd say around 20 pages. For an hour minus commercials, 40 pages. If you're writing something for a network like HBO, you don't need to worry about commercials. In any case, try to stick to the page per minute rule.

according to the Screenwriter's Bible  

Half hour sitcoms run between 40-50 pages

One our dramas run about 54-60 pages


i always run them a little longer just to be safe... better to have too much material then not enough ... stuff is going to get cut anyway....

Please look for answers before you post questions. Here's a 7 page thread on this.

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-screenwrite/m-1080702594/

Hi,

I'm new in scriptwriting and I'm writing short script to practice. I just wondering, how many pages is the minimum pages in short story to be accepted in SS. I write 5 pages short story and submitted to SS and I dont hear anything until now. perhaps my scripts is not long enough to be displayed in SS. I notice that most short script ini here are about 20 pages long. But I just wondering can I send 5 pages story and how many is the minimum.

thanks

There is no minimum. I've seen scripts on here that are only two or three pages. I don't know what happened to your script, but as far as I know there is no minimum for shorts.


Matt.

I think Don has been pretty busy and that's the reason why your script hasn't been posted yet.

I've written a one page script.  I think Helio did, also.  There's no size limit with scripts here.


Phil

Yeah, it'll be up soon in all probablity. In the meantime, reads and review some scripts.

oukay, thanks. that's relieving.

Hi, I have a question about he length of scrips for TV, namely for episodes of cartoon shows.

I have searched and read previous answers on here but my questions never seems to have been fully addressed, i.e. exactly how many pages for a 21 minutes cartoon - actually an episode of South Park. (this of course is 21 mins after the commercials & titles have been removed). I have seen two different answers on here, one that says a minute a page and one that says 30 seconds a page but double spaced and I am not sure that either one is correct.

My problem is that there does not seem to be any original South Park scripts available anywhere online, most are transcripts or HTML versions that do not have page numbers and when copied and pasted into Word the formatting goes titsup and it would take all day to re-format. But what what i have seen it appears that an episode of South Park is written in the same format as a movie screenplay and appears to be 42 pages - exactly 30secs - I was wondering if this seems correct to anyone, does anyone have any other information that may help?

Thanks Gary

I'm not overly familiar with the TV format, but I do remember reading somewhere that the page counts are usually higher.  Like 35-40 pages for a 22 minute script.  

I don't think that's timed at 30 seconds and double spaced though, just additional material.

See if you can find one of the Office scripts posted in the Series section.  I think that's where I saw it.

Shelton, you are a star! Found the office script and it is an original script with page numbers and It is 38 pages!

Cheers for that.

It also depends on the spacing of the script. For example, The Simpsons have dialogue that is double-spaced, so the script runs 35-38 pages long. You'll have to find out if South Park has the same standard, or if they single-space the dialogue.

As for 1-hour scripts, you are looking at around 50-60 pages, depending on the show runner and what his\her preferences are. For example, Firefly scripts run around 55 pages, even though the show runs 41-45 minutes.

Finally, there are different formats for The Simpsons and South Park (for example, I believe The Simpsons bold their scene headings... not sure what South Park does)

Stew

Sorry Shelton I have to take the star back from you and give it to Tierney_Cat!

41 pages for 21 minutes and formatted just like a movie script - seems weird don't it? Not sure how that works - I guess just because it is all quick dialogue and little else.

I really appreciate that, thanks for your help.

Murphy

Quoted from Murphy Sorry Shelton I have to take the star back from you and give it to Tierney_Cat!

Oh yeah?  Try this one!

http://www.spschat.com/RareMedia/Southparkpdfs/sppdfs.htm

Nice try! ;-)

Think you and Tierney_Cat will have to wrestle for the star - i only have one to give.

Star?  I thought you were giving away the doll in your avatar.

I'm officially withdrawing from the gold star giving extravaganza.

Who knew stars were so worthless these days.  Don't tell the agencies.

I could go into painful detail about the strange world of timing for television.  I won't go too deep but it has do with filming primarily on standing sets and the number of people you have on screen at any given time.  If it's something like CSI you have a huge cast and  five or six people with speaking parts in every other scene.  You gain a lot of pages if you keep breaking with character - dialogue, character - dialogue, etc.  The same is true of South Park which has a lot of speaking parts and the characters live in groups.

Double-spacing only applies to traditional three-camera sitcoms shot in front of a studio audience.  There aren't many of them left these days.  Single-camera sitcoms like My Name is Earl or The Office are the norm and they are formatted like hour-longs or features.

I always thought that the South Park Episode Scripts were so long, was the fact that the show mainly consists of dialog?

And then you get shows like NewsRadio, which, according to the commentaries, ran 60 pages and they cut the scenes after shooting.

Though I may have misheard.