What is considered a short? How many pages? When does it turn into a feature? Is anything under 80-90 pages a short?

I have a 45 page script I'm thinking about possibly posting, but don't know if I should call it a short or not.

It seems I remember seeing this question before, but I couldn't find it.

Thanks,

Pia

That depends on who you ask.  I've seen competitions where they say a short must be fifteen pages or less.  Other competitions say thirty or even sixty pages.

I, personally, would put a 45 page script under the shorts section.


Phil

I have my two pence for this matter.

I believe that a scrrenplay more than 20 pages longer is very difficult to sell as a short, because most of contests ask no more than that. In other hand if it will be a a documentary piece, 45 minutes longer is sastifatory length.

Yeah, I pitched a short once, it was 25 pages, and the judge said it was too long to be a short.

I wrote a 40 page short and posted in the shorts section.  No one seemed to mind it.

I think it won't matter where its posted but it being in the shorts section may get you more reads.  That's usually the first place I go, knowing that its quicker and easier to read a short than a full-length script.

Jonathan

These boards are pretty lenient when it comes to the length of a short script.  Competitions, otoh, have stricter guidelines.


Phil

What they taught in school was, anything less than 80 pages is technically a short, since it falls "short" of both cinema and TV full length requirements. Zoetrope uses the same standard, for whatever its worth.

Thanks,

Sounds almost like i'd be better off either adding 35 pages (that would be tough) or trim 20-25 (that would be sad).

I'll keep in mind for the future, that 45 pages isn't really a good length for anything.
:-/

Forty five pages is good for an anthology television show.


Phil (an answer for everything)

I wouldn't worry about the length, Pia. Just submit it and see what people think.

Accident Happen was 40 pages and that got picked up off the site, the current draft is 30 pages.

I read on the Academy Awards site that to win an Oscar for a short, it has to be less than 40 minutes. So that's the max Oscar length.

Quoted from jimmywins I read on the Academy Awards site that to win an Oscar for a short, it has to be less than 40 minutes. So that's the max Oscar length.

I've always wondered what you have to do to get a short film nominated for a short film Oscar. Are there certain film festivals you need to win, to qualify?

If anyone knows how it works, I'd love to hear about it.

On the topic of this thread, I've noticed that a lot of short film competitions don't want films going over 10 minutes. And at short film festivals I've noticed that the majority of films are less than 20 minutes.

As for 45 minute scripts, I really think that they're in no man's land, too long to be a short and too short to be feature length; you to need cut them down or flesh them out.

As much as a feature is short !

Here is the web site with the official rules for an Oscar winning short. http://www.oscars.org/79academyawards/rules/rule19.html

Remove the rule19 and you get the beginning of the full official rules.

The hardest part of those rules in my opinion is the one week run in Los Angeles with a standard promotional campaign. Next would be getting the 1024 x 768 resolution.

A short is in the field of 5-45 pages. Most people stay out of the area between short and feature. Anything below 5 pages shouldn't be posted anywhere, or attempted to be sold.

A feature is 75-120.

Anything above that definately needs to get cut down. That is a good question though.

Post your script, see what people think, if it is a huge deal I'm sure that you would be able to cut it down a good 5 pages.

Just my two cents.

-Yoda

Quoted from Yoda Anything below 5 pages shouldn't be posted anywhere, or attempted to be sold.

Why not?  I've entered such shorts in competitions and have placed with them.  Sometimes, this is exactly what a director wants because a three minute short is easier to get into a film festival than a fifteen minute short.


Phil

hey Yoda, my two hamburgers and my bulleyes object!

Quoted from Helio hey Yoda, my two hamburgers and my bulleyes object!

And you wonder why I have trouble understanding you.....


Phil

I remember seeing a short on this site that was 1 page.

I was surprised when I saw that one pager, but it was actually quite good. It had more depth in a single page than a lot of the feature scripts on here. "Jason vs. Romy and Michelle III" couldn't touch it.

Well, I guess I am incorrect. Sometimes there are exceptions for shorts under 5 pages. Maybe your script is one of them, I do not know. A majority of the scripts that I have read that are under 5 pages were horrible.

I read one short the other day, beautiful description, but lacked story, and lacked an ending.

Most short scripts that are only 1-5 pages long don't really have enough build up for a satifying ending, but I guess that's just me.

-Yoda

Most of them don't. You are correct. The trick is finding the ones that do. Brevity and satisfaction. What could be better?

Some well made 30 second commercials manage to tell a story as well.

As far as my own script, I'll probably try to extend it, making it my first short feature rather than a long short. I don't think I can ad 35 pages, but we shall see. My short attention span and lack of self discipline may prevent me from doing that.
:-/

Quoted from tomson As far as my own script, I'll probably try to extend it, making it my first short feature rather than a long short. I don't think I can ad 35 pages, but we shall see.

You could always add a subplot and/or a new character to flesh it out a little.

Quoted from Yoda ....I am incorrect....there are exceptions...

Hey, Yoda -- when you post you need to start writing "incorrect I am" and "exceptions there are" and stuff like that.

Hey, Pia -- are you fleshing out your last OWE story like everybody told you to?

It's just the name, but that I can work on.

Sorry, I am. Justice there is.

-Yoda

We had this discussion about writing a good five page script not too long ago.  I wrote one in two days and it became a finalist in the Gimme Credit Screenplay Competition.  Another five pager I wrote took third place in the shorts.

The trick is to know what to leave out....


Phil

That's great Phil!

Quoted from bert Hey, Pia -- are you fleshing out your last OWE story like everybody told you to?

I think I would get too depressed, I did like George's suggestion he had for a story though.

This is the other OWE, the western.
It's now a nice little graphic lesbian western. I could probably extend the bathtub scene quite a bit.........

Quoted from tomson I don't think I can ad 35 pages

Then don't! :)

Don't write anything into your script that doesn't inspire you as much as the original idea that made you start writing it in the first place. If it ends being a too-long-for-a-short and too short-for-a-feature script, so be it.

Sure, that page count could be a problem in contests, query letters, etc. But I think people here will read it. Specially if it's a lesbian western  ;D

Worry about the page count later. Just friendly advice.

Good luck.

Quoted from tomson It's now a nice little graphic lesbian western. I could probably extend the bathtub scene quite a bit.........

I don't think any guy would complain if you extended the bathtub scene in a lesbian western by thirty-five pages.


Phil

Wellcome "BruckBath Mountain" !

Hey yoda, two example of  *cough*great *cough* short-short scripts here there are:
  "Why is everyone always shooting at me?" and "At The End of a Family Barbecue"
(don't be impressed by the feature tittles their contents are shorter!)

Script plugging, you are...

Check your script out, I will.

If you didn't understand that. Yes, I will make sure to check out your scripts sometime soon.

-Yoda

Quoted from dogglebe I don't think any guy would complain if you extended the bathtub scene in a lesbian western by thirty-five pages.

Another hilarious one-liner, Phil. You're like a stand-up comedian. I love it.

So, what do you do when you feel depressed?

You go home and fire up the PC, log on to SS, in your inbox you find a message from a member (who shall go unnamed). :P

The message suggests I extend the western and the bathtub scene by using extensive use of "the soap's POV!!

Just thought I'd share that incase someone else could use a laugh.  ;D

It could be very, very interesting! Ploop!Ploop!Ploop! I can see the tittle:

"I hid your soap, Dolores! "

Quoted from jimmywins Here is the web site with the official rules for an Oscar winning short. http://www.oscars.org/79academyawards/rules/rule19.html Remove the rule19 and you get the beginning of the full official rules.

Thanks for that Jim. And now the journey towards Oscar glory begins. Lol.

Here's an interesting little article I read about writing short scripts and making short films.

Writing A Short Film
Dermot Tynan, Claddagh Films Limited
Copyright (c) 1995, Claddagh Films Limited
Dermot Tynan is an independent film-maker, based in the Republic of Ireland.

Blaise Pascal once wrote ``I have made this letter longer than usual, because I lack the time to make it short.'' If there is a rule for writing a short film, this is it. A short film should not be considered as a truncated feature film. They are two independent formats. Just as a good novel is not an elongated short story. A feature film is allowed a certain percentage of fat. Scenes which don't advance the story, or develop the main characters. No such sloppiness is allowed or tolerated in the short film. Every shot counts, every line of dialogue is important.

Scriptwriters often ask ``how can I create a character with depth and importance, such that his or her death eight pages later will have some emotional impact?'' Such questions usually produce stifled yawns among writers of short film. Often, the whole story, including all the numerous subplots has to exist within eight pages. Similarly, a feature film must warm up its audience within 20 minutes of the title sequence. This translates to approximately twenty script pages. The short film doesn't have this luxury. Often, the complete back-story and rough elements of characterisation must be revealed within two pages. This is a unique challenge - how to write one or two pages of a script, in such a way that the lead characters are introduced, and the back-story revealed. Economy is essential. Modern-day audiences are quite film-literate. They know when you try to indoctrinate them in a hurry, and they don't like it.

That scene where one neighbour turns to the other and describes the prior years of the film has to go. Along with the telephone call which "explains everything". Dump the "flashback" scene out with the bathwater while you're at it. Very few films put a flashback to good purpose. Sometimes there is very little choice, particularly in short films. However, be very careful, and make sure that all other alternatives have been exhausted first. So, the neighbours can't tell the story, the telephone can't tell the story, we can't delve into the characters past, and we certainly can't use a voiceover to bring the audience up to date. Now what?

Don't despair - film is a decidedly visual medium. People react to what they see, not what they hear. Also, even though the film is short, the traditional tension/release patterns must be present. The audience should care enough about your characters and what happens to them, for them to continue watching the film. The simplest way to do this is to remember to say NO to your characters. Nothing should be easy. Keep the audience interested. What is the basic plot, and how can it go wrong? Again and again. How the characters respond to various plot twists also tells us a lot about who they are. The three act structure dictates that the first act should establish the characters and the predicament, the second act should only make things worse, and the third act should see Ms. White heading for the hills with Mr. Right. There's no point starting off with Ms. White and Mr. Right as the perfect couple. Not unless they'll hate each other by the end of the first act. For added measure, his parents could despise her too. When she saves the schoolbus full of children from teetering over the cliff, she could decide Mr. Right ain't so bad. However, don't do that until the very end.

Staging is also an important consideration when writing short films. Obviously things like a fleet of space ships landing in downtown Seattle will strike terror not in the hearts of the audience, but in the mind of the Producer. Even trivial things such as a conversation in a car could involve an extra half-day of production, special camera equipment and a brave crew. Our Hero leaves his house to go to the pub. We have a shot of him coming through the doors, from inside the pub. Do we need to see him leaving his house? Or walking down the street? Frankly, no. It doesn't advance our story, and costs more. Maybe we decide he'll kick a dog as he walks down the street, thus showing the audience what a cad he is. Why not put the dog in the pub? The production team would prefer it, and the dog too.

Avoid too many locations in the script, but also avoid the temptation to have the whole film take place in someones kitchen, one bright morning. The locations you choose will have a direct impact on the budget of the film as well as the quality. Two people sitting on a hay cart discussing Sartre may be an effective scene, but both the sound crew and camera crew will become apoplectic when they see the script. There is a happy medium. The hay cart doesn't have to be moving. Maybe they're only leaning up against it. At any rate, write the story the best way you can, then begin to polish it, by eliminating excessive dialogue, unnecessary character traits and extraneous scenes.

An excellent example can be found in the Academy (and BAFTA) award winning short film entitled ``Omnibus''. Here, the filmmakers take a relatively simple idea, and expand on it. They manage to create three or four main characters with foibles and considerable pathos, all within eight screen minutes. No small achievement.

I don't know if this has been menioned but aren't there different standards for shorts in Europe VS the U.S.?

Most European short-films are pretty short (at least the Danish, German and French I've seen) running 5-15 minutes, whereas most American ones are longer; perhaps reaching the 40-minute mark.

I've written shorts as short as two pages to as long as thirty pages.  It all depends on the story.  At the same time, it's harder to get a short into a festival if it's longer than fifteen minutes long.


Phil