The subject of this thread is;

Do nice guys really finish last?

I recently had an episode with a producer who said that I was too nice, that I was not edgey enough. Basically to market my script they needed to market me.

Then, this morning I watched a segment on the Today Show that said, Nice guys are the most successful. What gives?

View points are what I am after so if you have one give it, if not, SHUT UP!

Okay I tried it and it didn't do anything for me so someone shed some light, please.

And yes, I know the difference between a pushover and a...

Kotton

PS. So yes this is screenwriting related.

It's to my experience that @$$holes rule the World. As in the producer who told you that was an @$$hole.

My advice is key his car, in big letters that say, "see, I'm edgy". And after that, I bet he'll be so impressed that he'll market your script. Either that or he'll have you arrested. But something'll happen damnit! and that's the moral of this story.

Wow.  I learned something today.  Screenwriters are actually marketed themselves.  That's interesting.

As far as your query goes, I do think nice guys finish last.  In any situation the "nice" guy is all about pleasing the other person.  Whether it be a producer, a girlfriend, a teacher, you have no personality when you are nice.  You  just alter yourself to please the opposing party.  And that gets boring after a while and uninspiring.  I'm sure there will be the people out there that will say that the nice guys will make out in the long run, but that's a crock.  Business is cut throat, there's no room for a passive businessman/seller.  Everyone loves a challenge.  What keeps you trying to sell a script even though people say no?  The challenge of actually selling it.  Why do girls ogle over movie stars and rock stars?  Because of the challenge of actually being accepted by them.    

Now with a script and the writer, I don't really see why the screenwriter's personality should have anything to do with the sale.  I mean as long as you pitch the story well enough, who cares if you are nice or not?  But if you recieved the feedback from a producer it must be legit, so I won't argue with that.  

Haha, so I guess after all of this I really don't have a suggestion for you, but as far as being too nice, it's definately true.  I'd have that producer elaborate on what exactly is "too nice" about you and see if it is possible to tweak it to the desired personality level he demands.      

Quoted from Steve-Dave It's to my experience that @$$holes rule the World. As in the producer who told you that was an @$$hole. My advice is key his car, in big letters that say, "see, I'm edgy".

The great thing about this reply is that I spelled edgy wrong, I think it's "edgey" but anyways, the fact still remains that some a**holes have really made it and some nice people were left behiind because they didn't force themselves.

When I write, I hope the story does the talking for me, then comes along a producer, (agent for some) that say...Stated above.

Right now I am being vindictive because I'm scorned but I know there are others out there feeling the sme way.

I am probably acting like an a**hole now so I'm learning. Any other SS a**holes want to help in my progress?
I want to do some "shout outs" but they might be offended.

-Kotton

BTW, The term a**hole is an affectionant term and is not meant to offend anyone. Wait that is being nice, damn it!(I know I mis spelled affection...damn it who cares you all know what I mean!

Nope, edgy was right and affection was right. Except it's affectionATE, not affectionANT. But I think you have a right to be vindictive.

Quoted from Kotton I am probably acting like an a**hole now so I'm learning. Any other SS a**holes want to help in my progress?

First, you go out and the first baby you see, you smack the shit out of it. And then you go and rob an old lady. That outta do it for starters.

Quoted from Steve-Dave And then you go and rob an old lady. That outta do it for starters.

And don't forget to kick her when she's down!

Quoted from rpedro And don't forget to kick her when she's down!

;D Right, how could I forget that? That's the best part. ...Because it's funny to watch them cry and squirm around on the floor

Maybe what they meant is that they have to market you to the company and they do not want to sign unstable dicks with egos so big they will fight with billionaires over stupid things. (Troy Duffy)

Frankly half the time they pay writers and that man/woman goes away and we never see them again until they show up on some obscure indy or bad B horror picture.

I'm not, Kotton! Are you seen all sucess I'm doing in here? So I'm not!

Nice guys never succeed. They serv just to be the main characters of silly stories!

Thanks all that replied to this thread, it calmed me down.

Sorry to anyone who I might have offended, (srynows) .

Wesley may have a point. I was just thrown back by the email that the producer sent me. He stated that if I wanted to make it I had to become a hard a**. Be more excitable, or reactive. The thing about me is that I am willing to hear ideas and I don't dismiss them during the process of writing but I do when I finalize things. So it threw me for a loop.

But thanks again for the comments and allowing me to vent.

-Kotton

??? You didn't offend me Kotton.

I'm definitely too nice. Even my probation officer says so. Lol.

Now that all have calmed down and can focus. Remember that most executives are only as good as thier support groups. Or therapists. I find that if a writer can not be as expressive in life as he or she is in words, What's the point? Be the character, hard a**, great lover, pioneer, etc. We are all actors in the on going screenplay known as "Life". So in front of the camera or behind it should not matter. You can act the harda** when needed without being untrue to yourself. Date an actress for one night and learn quickly what others take lifetimes to master.

When the moment calls for it. Hand it to them on a platter.

Suck it up and write on.

So let me get this straight...a producer turned down your writing on the merits of your being too nice? Oh please... Let's translate. Your script did not fit their needs at this time. I honestly wish people would say what they mean. This probably means this producer is too nice and didn't want to risk offending you by a straight turn down. Hey, we're writers. We get turned down a lot. This doesn't mean your script was bad, mind you. It just means that they're looking for Vampire Lesbians and you wrote a script about Gay Eskimos. Nothing personal.

Quoted from George Willson Gay Eskimos

"The Inuits Get Into It", starring Benjamin Bratt and Danny Trejo.

I'm the only gay eskimo-o, in my triiiiiibe.

That song has to be on the internet somewhere.

Anyway, how were they able to assess that you're too nice?  Did you meet them in person?

Of course the Today Show will tell you that nice guys are the most successful; it makes the audience feel better.

Typical 'nice guys' absolutely do finish last. Pushover types.

But that's not to say you should go out and be a total asshole.

The key to success is to strike a balance. Know when to be good-natured and kind, and know when to stand up and fight back. Know your strengths as well as your weaknesses.

Does that make sense to you?