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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board  /  Questions or Comments  /  Copyright protection.
Posted by: ron gannon, December 8th, 2006, 5:24pm
A copyright attorney told me that by posting a screenplay on the internet you forfeit  copyright protection unless that web site offers protection.

Zoetrope.com states that no material posted on their web site should be used, given to others, etc. etc.

Does Simplyscripts have any warnings concerning the use of material posted on this web site?
Posted by: Don, December 8th, 2006, 5:30pm; Reply: 1

Quoted from ron gannon
A copyright attorney told me that by posting a screenplay on the internet you forfeit  copyright protection unless that web site offers protection.

Zoetrope.com states that no material posted on their web site should be used, given to others, etc. etc.

Does Simplyscripts have any warnings concerning the use of material posted on this web site?


No.  I state very clearly that it is the responsibility of the copyright holder to take steps to protect their work.

Don
Posted by: bert, December 8th, 2006, 5:43pm; Reply: 2
If you've registered your copyright, you're fine.  

I don't know about that "magical copyright" you get just by writing something -- that is not the same thing -- I have no confidence in that one -- and that may be what your attorney friend is talking about.

Posted by: Takeshi (Guest), December 8th, 2006, 7:09pm; Reply: 3
Does anyone here know of someone, who's posted a script on the net and then had it ripped off?

And I don't mean some jerk off kid passing it off as their own on another site (I know that's happened). I mean a genuine film industry player who's taken the script and gone into pre-production with it.

I seriously doubt a player in the film industry would stupid enough to take someone else's script and try to pass it off as their own; they'd be leaving themself wide open for a huge headache.




Posted by: George Willson, December 8th, 2006, 7:19pm; Reply: 4

Quoted from ron gannon
A copyright attorney told me that by posting a screenplay on the internet you forfeit  copyright protection unless that web site offers protection.


I dunno. That seems a bit funny to me. That would imply that by showing your work to others, it becomes public domain. If you've registered your work somewhere to prove the date it was written, then it's protected regardless of what you do with it. You could line the walls of the subway with it for all anyone cares, and it's still protected. The only time you forfeit your copyright is when you contractually sign it over to someone else. Now posting it on the internet without a registered copyright? You're on your own.
Posted by: dogglebe (Guest), December 8th, 2006, 7:29pm; Reply: 5
Art Buchwald took Paramount Pictures to court for stealing his script for the Eddie Murphy movie, 'Coming to America.'  

If it can happen to him, it can happen to any of us.


Phil
Posted by: Takeshi (Guest), December 8th, 2006, 7:36pm; Reply: 6

Quoted from dogglebe
Art Buchwald took Paramount Pictures to court for stealing his script for the Eddie Murphy movie, 'Coming to Americal.'  

If it can happen to him, it can happen to any of us.
Phil


What was the outcome of the court case?

Posted by: Breanne Mattson, December 8th, 2006, 7:58pm; Reply: 7
This article came out recently about stolen ideas if anyone wants to read it. I found it interesting:

'Stolen' ideas big business in Hollywood

By SANDY COHEN, AP Entertainment Writer Thu Nov 9, 2006 - 3:29 PM ET

LOS ANGELES - "Pirates of the Caribbean." "The Matrix." "The Last Samurai." "Broken Flowers." "Amistad." Success isn't all these films have in common. Each was also challenged by a lawsuit claiming "idea theft" — a common Hollywood problem that lawyers say is likely to continue as long as huge movie studios wield enormous power.

"It's like having your soul ripped out," says 37-year-old Cleveland resident Jeff Grosso, who paid his way through film school by playing Texas Hold 'Em, wrote a screenplay about it, then sued Miramax over its poker movie "Rounders."

"All they would have had to do was give me a 'story-by' credit," Grosso says. "They could have gotten me for nothing. I could have gone and used that credit to get other work. All I ever wanted to do was write movies."

But why would movie studios, with every resource at their disposal, steal stories? Are these writers just cranks, frustrated wannabes with delusions of creativity?
No, says attorney John Marder, who specializes in representing aggrieved writers. Many are victims of a system that favors studios and networks and offers little protection for writers and ideas.

"It's a small group of people that have all the juice, and if you're not in that crowd, you're really at their mercy," he says. "There's a real lack of moral compass on the issue in Hollywood. And there's an ego-driven arrogance about it, like how dare you challenge this producer, this director, this studio? They'll spend $10 million fighting a case where the demand is $100,000."

Attorney Daniel H. Black, a veteran of Hollywood studios and intellectual-property litigation, acknowledges that studios "have a tremendous amount of leverage."
Are ideas actually stolen? "I guess that's possible," he says, "as (it's) possible that plaintiffs are bringing actions they have no grounds to bring."

Part of the problem is the law. Ideas are not subject to federal copyright protection and, until recently, that was the only legal avenue for relief. Federal law says only the expression of ideas — actual screenplays or treatments — are copyrightable. Therefore a writer would have to prove that a finished film or television show was almost identical to his original screenplay. A studio can get around that by simply tweaking a few details.
But a 2004 decision by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals held that when a writer pitches an idea to a production company, an "implied in-fact contract" is created, meaning the writer has a reasonable expectation that he will be paid if the company turns his idea into a product.

Marder won the Ninth Circuit decision in a case brought by Grosso, who studied screenwriting at Malibu's Pepperdine University and spent all of 1995 writing a screenplay called "Shell Game." He mailed the manuscript to "anyone who would take it," including a company that claimed to have a first-look deal with Walt Disney Co. subsidiary Miramax (meaning the studio would have the first opportunity to buy or pass on the project).

Four years later, Grosso sued Miramax, saying it "mined (his) script for the main characters and main story" of the 1998 hit "Rounders." A judge finally dismissed Grosso's claim in July, saying no contract ever existed with Miramax.

Grosso, who published his first novel in February, is appealing. "I'll never get over it," he says.

Then there's the problem of access. A writer has to prove that a studio actually saw his screenplay, which can be tougher than it sounds. In an effort to get their work into Hollywood's hands, unconnected writers often generously pass their screenplays around in search of that elusive "in." Maybe they e-mail their script to their cousin who works at a studio, or give it to a friend's brother who's an agent. Before long, the trail of bread crumbs disappears.

Reed Martin toiled for 10 years on his screenplay "Heart Copy" while teaching movie marketing at Columbia and New York universities. He was a regular at film festivals and traveled often to Los Angeles hoping to make the right contacts. Finally, a talent-agent friend agreed to help him.

A year later, Martin learned his movie was being made. Only he wasn't in on the deal.
He sued Focus Features and filmmaker Jim Jarsmusch, claiming that Broken Flowers - which won the Grand Prize at the Cannes Film Festival in 2005 — was based on his work.
"There's so many coincidences that are impossible," says Martin, 37, now a research associate at Harvard Business School.

Martin says he registered every version of his script with the U.S. Copyright Office and the Writer's Guild of America.

"I didn't realize that copyright registration doesn't protect you from being ripped off," he says. "It only gives you standing to sue."

Marder took Martin's case, one of "a 100 or so" brought each year to his firm, Manning and Marder.

"The other 99 we don't represent and no one represents them," Marder says. "Attorneys can't afford to finance them and studios will spend a lot of money, chilling people from bringing lawsuits."

Martin is set to be deposed next month, but he says no amount of relief would be enough.
"It's not like Jim Jarmusch stole my hobby," he says. "I have wrecked my life following this dream."

A representative for Jarmusch would not comment on the case.
Most cases never reach a jury's ears, says attorney Aaron Moss, who specializes in creative-rights law. "The vast, vast, vast majority of these cases tend to settle. There's never an admission of liability. It's settled quietly outside of court."
Usually with a confidentiality clause, Marder notes.

Marder says the Grosso decision and the additional protection it provides for writers will inspire a "fundamental change" in how studios operate, but Black isn't so optimistic.
"I don't really see any end to this," he says. "As long as people in this marketplace are pitching ideas and as long as studios and networks are hearing ideas, there are going to be instances where people feel ripped off."

Writers can protect themselves by coming up with "code names" for their projects and not revealing too many details, Black says. They should retain an agent or a lawyer and make their pitches with that person present. "That keeps people honest," he says.
But it doesn't always work.

Donald Hughes got an agent to represent his autobiographical tale, "Echoes from Clay County," which detailed how he helped his wrongly convicted brother break out of jail. Last month, Hughes sued Fox Broadcasting Co., claiming that after rejecting his manuscript, the company used the idea for its hit series "Prison Break." (Fox had no comment.)

Hughes, 63, says he and his brother have better things to do than file lawsuits: "We're just a couple of old country boys, but when you're right, you're right."

Posted by: Kevan, December 8th, 2006, 8:22pm; Reply: 8
I read this article myself about a week ago.

Bottom line is there is no real protection and people do steal from writers as this article illustrates.

These are the risks. The reason why we write is one, we enjoy writing, we are creative people but two, the rewards can be great financially if we are sucessful.

Movie Making is big corporate business where the profits would pay off the debt of a small country..

High Stakes, it's just like gambling isn't it..

Dog eat dog out there it is...

Sure is sad to read articles with examples where screenwriters get ripped off, and by some the big players too..

Just protect your work as much as you can and hope you never get put in a similar situation like the guy mentioned in the article.

Posted by: dogglebe (Guest), December 8th, 2006, 8:34pm; Reply: 9

Quoted from Takeshi


What was the outcome of the court case?



Paramount had to pay $150K to Buchwald, but it was a four year court battle and he was able to afford the lawyers.


Phil
Posted by: Takeshi (Guest), December 8th, 2006, 8:39pm; Reply: 10
Interesting article, Brea.

Ah, the irony of Hollywood. A town full of villans making movies about heroes ::)

I'd love to see a documentary about this do the rounds of the film festival circuit. You could have Michael Moore running up to actors and asking them how they feel about being in a movie that was based on a stolen script.

I don’t get why they'd rather spend a million dollars ripping someone off, when they could just pay a hundred grand for the rights. It’s insane.


Quoted from dogglebe

Paramount had to pay $150K to Buchwald, but it was a four year court battle and he was able to afford the lawyers.
Phil


That's cool. Here in Melbourne we have this kick a$$ law firm, that only makes you pay if you win and they love sticking up for the little guy.
  
Posted by: George Willson, December 8th, 2006, 9:23pm; Reply: 11
Or, you just come up with an idea that would be nearly impossible to steal and "change a few things." I will toot my own horn on this one. While most of my stuff has normal plots that could be tweaked into a different movie, The Fempiror Chronicles would be virtually impossible to adapt into anything different. Other stories that are too unique to adapt would include Harry Potter, Star Wars, and possibly Lord of the Rings, though it itself is an adaptation of The Ring of the Nibelung which is an adaptation of Norse mythology.

If you make a unique enough script and not a cookie cutter, you won't find "your" idea being lifted. In reality, what likely happened is someone else came up with something similar. This is an instance where when it comes to teen dramas, life stories, and slasher flicks, there's nothing new under the sun. If you write a romantic comedy, guess what? Everyone else's romantic comedy is going to have exactly the same plot points. They split up at the third act break?! Came back to gether in a climactic kiss?! It's new! It's fresh! It's been done. At least as far back as "It Happened one Night" in 1934, and likely long before that.

I'm just shocked that some of these lawsuits happen.
Posted by: dogglebe (Guest), December 8th, 2006, 9:24pm; Reply: 12

Quoted from Takeshi

That's cool. Here in Melbourne we have this kick a$$ law firm, that only makes you pay if you win and they love sticking up for the little guy.


What about filing fees and expenses?  Does the firm handle that or does the client as the money is needed.


Phil

Posted by: Takeshi (Guest), December 8th, 2006, 9:35pm; Reply: 13
I think so. Check this out, it's not too long winded:http://www.slatergordon.com.au/ourfirm/nowin_nofee.htm



Posted by: tonkatough, December 10th, 2006, 4:38am; Reply: 14
What do you mean by registered?

Both my scripts I have up loaded onto Simply Scripts are registered with a writer's guild. I hope this is what you are all talking about.

Plus I reckon the best way to protect your scripts is by writing something that is original and genreless. No way in hell Hollywood would pinch one of those, let alone do something original.

plus I like Gerorge's idea  of just write a fantasy epic that is set in a fantastical world that is so rich and complex that it would take $300 million in production costs to turn it into a movie.   It's common knoweldge that the big studios will choose an adaptation of a comic or novel over an original because the fan base is already there,
Posted by: Kevan, December 10th, 2006, 11:29am; Reply: 15

Quoted from George Willson
If you write a romantic comedy, guess what? Everyone else's romantic comedy is going to have exactly the same plot points. They split up at the third act break?! Came back to gether in a climactic kiss?! It's new! It's fresh! It's been done. At least as far back as "It Happened one Night" in 1934, and likely long before that


Your absultely right George. The COMEDY plot derived from Greek Philosophy and Greek drama plays, the opposite is a TRAGEDY of course.

Guess who also wrote a lot of comedies, yes, William Shakespeare. Guess where he developed his ideas from, yep, you got it, he refined the Greek comedy plots.

Where do all Rom Com plots come from - Shakespeare amongst others.

The movie "Shakespeare in Love" was written incorporating a main plot and a subplot and both were a reflection of Shakespeare's plot types. One was a Tragedy (the play) the other was a comedy (the film intself).

There are distinctive motifs within Shakespear comedies. Usually they include two characters falling in love but are not able to join in union due to some dark figure or manelvolent parent figure preventing the lovers. Next one of the lovers takes on a different identity in order to indulge in their love activities. This can be confusing for both the actual love character and other characters within the peice thereby causing further confusion (comedy) and thereby additional conflict. Only at the end when the character reveals his or her identity, which usually has been wrong in thr first place and he or she transpires to be somebody else more important, then the two lovers can come together with the parent's consent. Otherwise, the dark figure is thrown off the stage further into darkness so the two lovers can live their life in the light, and love of course..

No plot is new or original, they are all re-workings of plots from our historical literature, myths, fairy tales, plays, novels - you name it.

The Seven Basic Plots: Why We Tell Stories [Paperback]  by Christopher Booker

20 Master Plots: And How to Build Them [Paperback]  by Ronald B Tobias

The above two books are a good reference for writers as to what constitutes a plot and how and why a plot is used over and over again. And why these plots are sucessful.
Posted by: dogglebe (Guest), December 10th, 2006, 5:01pm; Reply: 16

Quoted from tonkatough
What do you mean by registered?

Both my scripts I have up loaded onto Simply Scripts are registered with a writer's guild. I hope this is what you are all talking about.

Plus I reckon the best way to protect your scripts is by writing something that is original and genreless. No way in hell Hollywood would pinch one of those, let alone do something original.

plus I like Gerorge's idea  of just write a fantasy epic that is set in a fantastical world that is so rich and complex that it would take $300 million in production costs to turn it into a movie.   It's common knoweldge that the big studios will choose an adaptation of a comic or novel over an original because the fan base is already there,



The problem with these ideas is that they're strikes against you when you try selling your script.  Hollywood will not spend $300M on a script from a nobody.  And no one will be interested in a script that can't be pitched.

I, personally,prefer to copyright my scripts at the Copyright Office in Washington.  It costs a few dollars more than WGA, but the copyright lasts 75 years past your death.  WGA registration is good for only five years and (IIRC), they don't even notify you when your five years are up so you can renew.


Phil
Posted by: Takeshi (Guest), December 10th, 2006, 11:22pm; Reply: 17

Quoted from Takeshi
I think so. Check this out, it's not too long winded:http://www.slatergordon.com.au/ourfirm/nowin_nofee.htm


I took a closer look at this site and it said they don't handle commercial litigation. They specialize more in personal injury. I'm guessing, taking legal action, over copyright infringement, would come under commercial litigation.
Posted by: dogglebe (Guest), December 11th, 2006, 8:09am; Reply: 18
When you register a script with the WGA, you're giving them a copy to hold for five years.    They keep your script in a sealed and dated envelope.  In return, you get a certificate saying it's your script and they have a copy of it.

If someone produces it, claiming they wrote it and you go to court over it, you get your registered copy from WGA and bring it to court with you.  Your script and the other guy's scripts are compared, as well as any dated registration that he or she may have.

The same applies with the copyright office, only they keep it longer.

Registration or copyrighting the script does not technically prove you wrote the script.  It gives a date when you had it in your possesion.  If we went to court over the script Phlegmdogs:  The Musical and our registration dates are only a few days or weeks apart, the judge will have trouble figuring out whose script it is.  If your script was registered on December 1, 2006 and my script was registered November 1, 1996, the judge will most likely rule in my favor.

Keep in mind that if I registered my script on November 1, 1996, with the WGA and did not renew it in 2001, the WGA would not have a copy of it on file.  That's why I prefer to copyright my work.


Phil
Posted by: George Willson, December 11th, 2006, 12:57pm; Reply: 19

Quoted from tonkatough
plus I like Gerorge's idea  of just write a fantasy epic that is set in a fantastical world that is so rich and complex that it would take $300 million in production costs to turn it into a movie.   It's common knoweldge that the big studios will choose an adaptation of a comic or novel over an original because the fan base is already there,


I have a feeling this was a tongue in cheek comment, but for the record, you would have to be a serious spend-thrift to fork over $300M to produce even the largest of the Fempiror saga. Seriously, we're not talking about a effects-intensive story here. Most of it is set pieces as opposed to special effects. I know this was off topic, but I don't want someone to get the wrong idea about my stuff.
Posted by: tonkatough, December 11th, 2006, 10:11pm; Reply: 20
No george I was not being tounge in cheek and no I was not even refering to Fempiror saga

I was refering to a way to write a script no producer would steal. But then again as Doglebe pointed out it would be impossible to pitch to a producer, which is good, right, cause then they won't steal it, which is bad because it means you have written an unmarketable script, which is good though cause you can then post it here on Simply Scripts and be safe in the knowledge that your exposed script will not be stoeln by a producer- ever, which is bad really because . . .

Hmm, can you see a catch 22 pattern happening here?  
Posted by: Alex J. Cooper, December 12th, 2006, 12:58pm; Reply: 21

Quoted from tonkatough
No george I was not being tounge in cheek and no I was not even refering to Fempiror saga

I was refering to a way to write a script no producer would steal. But then again as Doglebe pointed out it would be impossible to pitch to a producer, which is good, right, cause then they won't steal it, which is bad because it means you have written an unmarketable script, which is good though cause you can then post it here on Simply Scripts and be safe in the knowledge that your exposed script will not be stoeln by a producer- ever, which is bad really because . . .

Hmm, can you see a catch 22 pattern happening here?  


HAHAHAHAHA. It comes with a free frogurt. Thats good! The frogurt is also cursed. That's bad.... I can't remember the rest word for word, but it's classic.

Has anyone ever used a more... unofficial method as to prove their script was written first, like putting it in a time capsule? Dirt doesn't lie.

Posted by: silent0saint (Guest), February 11th, 2007, 3:36pm; Reply: 22
ths question is directed to anyone that could give me an answer

If i post a screenplay on this site would it be protected from people who want to steal it?
Posted by: Don, February 11th, 2007, 3:39pm; Reply: 23

Quoted from silent0saint


If i post a screenplay on this site would it be protected from people who want to steal it?


No.  Please read and review the text on the submit link: http://www.simplyscripts.com/submit_your_script.html

In short, protecting your script is your responsibility.

Don


Posted by: silent0saint (Guest), February 12th, 2007, 8:42pm; Reply: 24
oh I see , sorry if that was a stupid question. Well aparently it was seeing how the answer is in the above comments lol.
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