Print Topic

SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board  /  Comedy Scripts  /  The Order of Things - filmed
Posted by: Don, January 28th, 2009, 6:42pm
The Order of Things by Mike Shelton - Comedy, Romantic Comedy  - Marty's a perpetual bachelor, resigned to the fact that he's just not destined for marriage.  But when his mother refuses to let his newly engaged, younger brother Mikey get married until he does, Marty finds himself back in the game and on the hunt for a wife.  104 pages - pdf, format 8)

Posted by: sniper, January 29th, 2009, 2:30pm; Reply: 1
Hey Mike,

I'm about half way through the script and I just want to get my initial thoughts down while they're still fresh in my head.

First impression: Good. RomComs ain't really my scene but it's actually quite refreshing to read something "light" for once (and I don't mean "light" in a negative way). The script is a breeze to read, I mean the first fifty pages took me, what,  twenty, twenty-five minutes to read - that's a huge plus in my book.

The twist - the fact that Ma wants Marty to get married before Mikey can marry Sofia, and the fact that the brothers go along with that - is a little far fetched. But since this is an Italian family (where mama is always right) I'm okay with that. It's not unbelievable at all but, in this day and age...well, you really gonna have to WANT to buy it for the setup to work.

The dialogue through out (and the the writing in general) - is pretty damn good (and tight). I like that you're fairly economical with your words and don't drag the scenes out with overly long descriptions. They were a couple of instances were I thought you left the scene a bit later than what was actually required. Example:


Quoted from bottom of page 2
PAT
Alright, suit yourself. Just
figured I�d ask.

MARTY
And for that, you�re a good friend
and fantastic bartender. But I�ll
just let some other sap drop to his
knee for a girl. There�s probably
hundreds of �em out there, doing it
right this minute.

I think you should have ended the scene right there cos' that would be a perfect transition to the next scene where Mikey proposes. In fact, if you cut the whole "wine-dialogue" at the opening of the following scene and cut straight to the proposal I think it would play out much more crisp. It's one of those "get in late - leave early" thingys.


Quoted from page 30
MARTY
You�ve got to be kidding me.

MIKEY
No, now c�mon. And for the love of
God, wipe that chocolate off your
forehead. You look like Gorbachev.

Marty catches his reflection in the shop window.

MARTY
Aww, man. No wonder she ran away.

The same thing goes for this scene I think. Marty's last line is a perfect way to end the scene imo, it actually tells us a lot about him. I don't think Mikey's closing remark is needed at all cos' it sort of tells the audience exactly what they are already feeling. Loved the Gorbachev line though.

I don't want to comment on the characters yet - I wanna finish the script first but I will say that you pretty much achieved setting up both Marty and Mikey (Sofia and Ma too but to a lesser extent).

Great scene with Raven. Period. I like how you kept the vampire jokes coming - especially the one about how fast Sofia changes her clothes.

Great description of Mikey's dance - that made me laugh out loud.

I will get back to you with my final thoughts on the script once I've finished it, which should be sometime tomorrow...but (and this is just me thinking out loud) I'm guessing Zoe and Marty hits it off - Marty falls in love with Zoe - Marty screws it up near the end - Marty fixes it in the end. That would be the standard romcom storyline, looking forward to see what you've come up with

Cheers
Rob
Posted by: Shelton, January 29th, 2009, 3:29pm; Reply: 2
Hey Rob,

Thanks for checking out what you have so far.  Glad you're enjoying it.

It's funny you should bring up a couple of the things you did, because they were ones that I thought about myself during the writing process, and actually some were added in subsequent pass throughs.  This seems to happen to me a lot.  I should start going with my gut instincts a little more.

Firstly, the beginning.  It was initially the scene with Mikey and Sofia in the restaurant, and we don't meet Marty until his entrance at Ma's house.  I had intended for this to be a dual protag script, but as I got further and further into it (and with some outside assistance) I realized it just wasn't going that way, so Marty took the forefront and I added in the scene at Pat's.

From there, I thought about cutting to Sofia's celebration, losing all the chit chat at the beginning, so what your comment is right in line with that.  At least I'm somewhat on the right track there.

Same goes for the scene with the woman.  It did actually end at marty's line at one point, but I felt the need to bring the chocolate up again.

Hopefully you'll enjoy the rest of it as well, and I look forward to your comments.  There are some differences in your prediction and what actually goes down, so hopefully you won't be let down by them. :)
Posted by: sniper, January 29th, 2009, 3:37pm; Reply: 3

Quoted from Shelton
There are some differences in your prediction and what actually goes down, so hopefully you won't be let down by them. :)

Hmmm, interesting. Damn you, I'm not gonna get any sleep tonight cos now I have to finish it right away ;)

Posted by: sniper, January 29th, 2009, 3:52pm; Reply: 4
By the way, there's a thing I forgot to mention before...the title - "The Order of Things". While it's completely in line with the story it doesn't have that...oomph feel, like a title like "Pimp Juice" has, you know?

What about "Operation Marriage"?

I kid.
Posted by: sniper, January 30th, 2009, 6:20am; Reply: 5
Hey, Mike.

Just finished the second half of the script and, again, it was such an easy and speedy read.

Overall, I think the script is a good one. It's a cute story that delivers exactly what it set out to do. As a movie, it would be one of those that, when finished, you would leave the theater with a smile on your face and in a upbeat mood, like Four Weddings and a Funeral or Love Actually, actually. It's not deep or anything - and it's not supposed to, it's fun with a lot a witty dialogue and some hilarious scene that follows the standard RomCom pattern (though not the fashion as I predicted it to do). You could argue that there's not really anything new under the sun here - other than the Ma angle - but people (chicks) go see these movies regardless so I don't see this as a huge problem at all.

Character-wise, like I said earlier, I think you did a fine job establishing the brothers - they are different, not a lot but enough to set them apart (and since they're brothers you would expect them to be somewhat alike). Marty is the "loser" type that's been beaten down for the good part of his adult life while Mikey's seems more in control and with a healthier outlook on life. I like how you changed Marty (about halfway through the script) from being a slouching re-active character to a way more active protag. That's a character arc right there.

Sofia comes off a little weird in the first scene - the victory dance - but after that she sort of changes to somewhat of a prune imo. That's okay, though it doesn't make her very likable. It's who she is I guess and it also helps justify Mikey's actions towards the end. Ma...what can be said about Ma. Part of me wanted to see more of her cos' she's sorta the reason for the whole mess, while part of me gets that she's simply just this old school matriarch. She works, though she is a little one-dimensional.

Larry was both a joy and a pain. He serves almost like a comedic sidekick (and at that he's great) but part of me got a little fed up with him. I can't quite put my finger on what it exactly is about him them makes him a turn-off for me - he's just not doing it for me.

The second scene with Raven, where she and Larry turn up before the dinner is about to start, was friggin' hilarious - but was it really needed? I thought that, however great it was, that it was distracting from scene at hand, that it sort of clogged the scene unnecessarily. I mean, with Maria arriving a couple of minutes later there was certainly enough going on. I know you had to get Marty out of the house but I think you could have done it a different way. Maybe you could save these pages and use them earlier to build a bit more on Marty and Zoe's blossoming relationship - maybe prolong the scene at the diner. Just a thought.

The big resolve in the end was a bit sweet - just like they're suppose to be. I think that's why I'm not a big fan of the genre because it quickly gets really mushy, doesn't it? But it works and I understand why it's there. You also did a good job of tying everything up in the end for all the characters, though I thought the thing with Maria and Costa was maybe a bit over the top.

I still think the title lacks a little spark.

I'm no master at spotting typos but I think I found a couple:


Quoted from Top of Page 55

Marty is back at the table, but Zoe is nowhere in site.

Should be in sight, I think.


Quoted from Top of page 90

MARTY
She’s gotta at least bi, right?

Is there a be missing here?

Overall, a good and solid effort. Kudos.

Cheers
Rob
Posted by: Shelton, January 30th, 2009, 9:57am; Reply: 6

Quoted from sniper
Hey, Mike.

Just finished the second half of the script and, again, it was such an easy and speedy read.


Hey, Rob, thanks for finishing it up.


Quoted from sniper
Overall, I think the script is a good one. It's a cute story that delivers exactly what it set out to do. As a movie, it would be one of those that, when finished, you would leave the theater with a smile on your face and in a upbeat mood, like Four Weddings and a Funeral or Love Actually, actually. It's not deep or anything - and it's not supposed to, it's fun with a lot a witty dialogue and some hilarious scene that follows the standard RomCom pattern (though not the fashion as I predicted it to do).


I'm glad to hear that.  In a sense, it's predictable, but I wanted just the slightest touch of something off the beaten path, and I'm glad I accomplished that. You could argue that there's not really anything new under the sun here - other than the Ma angle - but people (chicks) go see these movies regardless so I don't see this as a huge problem at all.


Quoted from sniper
Character-wise, like I said earlier, I think you did a fine job establishing the brothers - they are different, not a lot but enough to set them apart (and since they're brothers you would expect them to be somewhat alike). Marty is the "loser" type that's been beaten down for the good part of his adult life while Mikey's seems more in control and with a healthier outlook on life. I like how you changed Marty (about halfway through the script) from being a slouching re-active character to a way more active protag. That's a character arc right there.


Yeah, with Marty, I tried to paint him as someone that's just not comfortable talking to women.  He's not good at it, and has little success, but with Zoe, it's different.  He's more like himself around her, and that's where the main connection lies.


Quoted from sniper
Sofia comes off a little weird in the first scene - the victory dance - but after that she sort of changes to somewhat of a prune imo. That's okay, though it doesn't make her very likable. It's who she is I guess and it also helps justify Mikey's actions towards the end. Ma...what can be said about Ma. Part of me wanted to see more of her cos' she's sorta the reason for the whole mess, while part of me gets that she's simply just this old school matriarch. She works, though she is a little one-dimensional.


Sofia and Ma were a little tough.  I wanted Sofia to come off as someone who REALLY wants to get married, hence the celebration, but ultimately not too likeable because of what we eventually learn.  Make her antsy and desperate for plausibility.

I would have liked to have used Ma just a little bit more, but nowhere really stuck out as a good place to insert her.  Plus her dialogue was kind of a pain in the ass to write. ;D


Quoted from sniper
Larry was both a joy and a pain. He serves almost like a comedic sidekick (and at that he's great) but part of me got a little fed up with him. I can't quite put my finger on what it exactly is about him them makes him a turn-off for me - he's just not doing it for me.


Hmm, not sure here.  If he made you kind of annoyed, I might have succeeded...haha.


Quoted from Sniper
The second scene with Raven, where she and Larry turn up before the dinner is about to start, was friggin' hilarious - but was it really needed? I thought that, however great it was, that it was distracting from scene at hand, that it sort of clogged the scene unnecessarily. I mean, with Maria arriving a couple of minutes later there was certainly enough going on. I know you had to get Marty out of the house but I think you could have done it a different way. Maybe you could save these pages and use them earlier to build a bit more on Marty and Zoe's blossoming relationship - maybe prolong the scene at the diner. Just a thought.


Marty definitely has to get out of the house for everything to work out the way it does, and I thought bringing Raven back was a better touch than having him just go to the store or some other generic reason.  Raven was originally supposed to appear in the scene in her apartment and that was it, but as I got further into the process I found a use for her and went with it because I thought the character was strong enough to carry it.  Not a bad suggestion about Marty and Zoe.  I was afraid people would have trouble buying in to things based on their minimal contact.


Quoted from Sniper
The big resolve in the end was a bit sweet - just like they're suppose to be. I think that's why I'm not a big fan of the genre because it quickly gets really mushy, doesn't it?  But it works and I understand why it's there.


Yeah, this is just a staple of the genre, but more often than not I see stuff like that at the very end.  I tried to do mine a little earlier, then add the scenes at the park and the club to squeeze just a little more comedy in before the end.


Quoted from sniper
You also did a good job of tying everything up in the end for all the characters, though I thought the thing with Maria and Costa was maybe a bit over the top.


Tying it together was a huge benefit to having so few characters.  Definitely made it easy.  The thing with Costa and Maria, do you mean the scenario itself, or just the way things went down?  I'm thinking the latter since she should "get hers", but maybe getting bit in the cooter is a bit much. ;D


Quoted from sniper
I still think the title lacks a little spark.


I'll think on it.  Long, long ago, when I first conceived the idea, I was going to call it "Making Marty Married", but ended up not caring for it.

Thanks for calling out the typos/missing words, and thanks again for reading.  I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Mike
Posted by: sniper, January 31st, 2009, 2:51pm; Reply: 7

Quoted from Shelton
The thing with Costa and Maria, do you mean the scenario itself, or just the way things went down?  I'm thinking the latter since she should "get hers", but maybe getting bit in the cooter is a bit much. ;D

Maria should definitely be put in her place, no doubt about it, I just think that "Costa going DOWN TOWN" was maybe moving the story a bit off the reservation. That would have worked for an American Pie type flick but it doesn't really go hand in hand with the general tone of this script.


Quoted from Shelton
Long, long ago, when I first conceived the idea, I was going to call it "Making Marty Married", but ended up not caring for it.

And I can totally see why  ;)
Posted by: Murphy (Guest), January 31st, 2009, 8:48pm; Reply: 8
So I usually read a script over breakfast on Sunday morning and picked this because I thought it would be an easy and quick read, not that romcom's are my kind of thing at all, ever, but they to tend to be nice and light in a Sunday morning kind of way.

I must admit that at first this was a little more hard going that I thought it would be an am sure that was down to the character names. Mikey and Marty? Very similar names when written down and during the first act when we are still establishing their characters and personality I was having to keep stopping reading to remember which one was which. Of course in the movie it would not matter at all, we obviously see the actors. But I don't know, it seems to be a bit of a schoolboy error and I would not have expected that from you dude. Could you not have called them Mikey and Chris or something? It might just be me and not terribly important, the further on the script got the less it bothered me.

Was it weird having a major character with your name? Did you picture yourself when writing him?

My impressions while reading it was that the first act was not that strong, but to be honest for the life of me I cannot put my finger on why. Character names as above was something to do with it but I think it was just the whole set-up and trying to believe in it all I guess. But then I read what Rob said "you really gonna have to WANT to buy it for the setup to work." Perfectly put, the people who love watching these movies seem pretty much willing to buy into anything as long as it delivers what they are looking for.

My best mate's wife loves romcoms, she can't seem to get enough of them. I take the piss sometimes and she thinks I am just a movie snob I think but I do try and find out what she loves about them so much. And it is just that, she doesn't care that she already knows what is going to happen, that they follow a pretty strict and overused formula, because that is what she wants and she seem happy to believe in almost anything as long as it gives her her fix of a happy ending and a few tears of joy at the end.

Anyway, the second act for me picked up the game and once I was comfortable in the set-up it just got better and better. Mikey and Marty did become real people and I did start to sympathise with Marty. You managed to keep surprising me with this script, as soon as they went to see Larry I just assumed that I was in for 60 pages of bad dates, montaqes and funny games as marty dated every girl on the books. That never happened and I was impressed, it was great using the dating agency and yet not relying on it to hold the rest of the plot up. Larry was a great character and yet perfectly under-used, i would not have wanted to see anymore of him than we did.

A quick word on structure. This script was perfectly paced and structured, we got the inciting incident in the first ten pages (ma's rules were delivered) so we knew early what the film is about. In a 100 page script we really should be looking at the protaganist making a decision that sets the second act events into motion at around page 25 or thereabouts. You had Marty making a conscious decision to help Mikey out on page 25. End of the second act should usually end with the protag seemingly losing everything and then spend act3 winning it all back. You did that in spades and by page 80 we had Mikey having lost everything. I know that not everybody buys into the whole structure thing, you may not yourself. But this stuff is not rocket science it is just natural storytelling. There are some genres that really have to follow a structure like this to work and romcom is probably top of the list. You may not even have thought about it and it just comes natural, exposure to similar films helps form that structure anyway. Would be interesting to know how much you paid attention to it when outlining the scrit?

But after all that this is where we come to my biggest problem with this script, the place that I think you have veered of course and forgot you were writing a romcom. There is no doubt that Marty should be the one who wins Zoe back. Not his mom, not Sophia and certainly not off-screen either. I think it was probably a bit of a cop out to be honest and to go back to my friend it is certainly not what she has sat through the last 90 minutes to see. Marty is the one who lost everything at the end of act 2 and Marty is the one who should win it back. I know that you had him on his knees with the song and everything but that was not enough really. I think you started the third act about 5 pages too late and certainly need a bit more time to write a convincing ending that delivers what its core audience are there to see. The chase through the streets, the I love you's across the crowded train platform Croc Dundee style or even the dangerous climb up the fire escape on the side of her apartment building.

Knowing you I think you did that on purpose, that little nod to the fire escape before going the easy way up the stairs. That would have been funny if this has been a parody of a romcom, but actually this is once of those movies and your core audience do want him to climb up there and win her back.

Of course this is just my thoughts, you may well not agree but just writing it as I see it, rightly or wrongly.

I loved Raven, what a great character, she is nearly the star of the movie. Again, not the first time that a romcom has used a seconary character to such good effect. In these roles the actor usually ends up stealing the show. Think about Russell Brand in 'Forgetting Sarah Marshall', I think Raven is one of those characters. I think you nailed it with the number of scenes she appears and loved her appearance at the end. When I read that I thought it was genius, I honestly mean it. It was a sign to me that you really knew what you were doing, I was most impressed. I kind of agree with Sniper about her showing up at Ma's house, but I do think that she had to make that second appearance somewhere before the end and that seemed as likely as anywhere. Although maybe she could have been in the nightclub where we saw Larry instead? dunno.

Anyway, although I am not a big fan of romcoms I do fancy writing one and have a few ideas running around in my head. I think it is a great genre to write in if you want to sell scripts, they are almost guaranteed to make $60-$90m at the box office, have a huge and loyal audience and in today's economic climate the studio's are going to want more. I am not surprised to see you writing in this genre, you are a funny guy and you write some good funny dialogue. I did laugh a few times reading this. Like I said my only real problem is the end, I really don't think it works as well as it should but would be very interested in hearing more opinions about this because I am hardly as expert or anything and may have it wrong.

Great job here Mike, really mean it. Well done.


* Jesus, can't believe I wrote so much about a romcom - sorry!


EDIT: Sorry, had a thought on the title. What about something like "Rule number 1" Ma could call it her number one rule and then at the end when they are leaving for the honeymoon Marty says something like "Ma, you never told us what Rule number 2 is?" then she tells him about the baby thing. Great way to end but then of course you are set for sequel - 'Rule number 2'. Now you are selling a franchise!!

Again, just a thought.
Posted by: Shelton, January 31st, 2009, 9:26pm; Reply: 9
Wow,  That's certainly a lot to take in.  Thanks for all the feedback.  I won't quote things cause there's a lot of stuff covered, but my response will defintely clue you in as to what I'm talking about.

First off, I'm glad you enjoyed it.  This is actually the 3rd rom-com that I've written counting Disparity of Devotion and The Hero of Her Heart (it's raunchy, but still a rom-com at its essence) and I really do enjoy writing them.  I think dialogue plays a big part in scripts like this and it's definitely suited to my style.  I'll also admit to watching quite a few.  There's just something about watching a rom-com and following it up with a 70's sexploitation flick that I find fascinating.

The names.  Yes, this occurred to me as I was writing, and I even gave thought to Ma and Maria being added in there.  4 M names.  I thought it was insane, but when it was all said and done, I didn't notice any flubs or name switches anywhere, so I figured if it could be written, it could be read.

Mikey's name didn't bother me at all.  Outside of one of my friend's family members, nobody calls me that.

I think ultimately the pacing just worked out.  It's not something that I stress on too much, but have found that I hit the end of the first act in pretty good fashion most of the time.  Third act is usually pretty good too since I ultimately know how I want to end things.  It's just the second act that gets me, and is probably why it's just a tad too long.

The thing with the scene near the end, is that it not only has to get Marty and Zoe back together, it also has to get Mikey and Sofia back together.  She's got to do something to amend for her error, and that seemed like the best way to go about it in my mind.  There were times that I toyed with them not getting back together at all, but thought it was too much of a downer and would have left people even more disappointed.

The fire escape scene was definitely done on purpose.  Marty's kinda lazy in the grand scheme of things, and the set up was there earlier on with the "Pretty Woman" refusal.

Raven is actually kind of funny.  She was only supposed to appear in the scene at her apartment, but she kind of evolved as I found other ways the she could legitimately be used.  Mainly, to get Marty out of the house, and eventually serve as a bridesmaid.  I'm just glad she's been getting good feedback, since it was an easy, yet fun character to write.

I agree that rom-coms are huge bank at the box office lately, and could see this doing quite well myself.  Another selling point is that the protags are male.  Could make husbands and boyfriends less reluctant to see it...haha.

Your title suggestion makes sense.  I remembered as I typed fade out thinking "damn, there could be a sequel to this.  Cue Marty's visit to Larry's new office, the fertility clinic".  Okay, I need to stop now.

Thanks again for reading.  Much appreciated.
Posted by: Toby_E, February 3rd, 2009, 8:25am; Reply: 10
Hey Shelton,

What's up man. Rom-coms usually aren't my thing, but I really enjoyed 'Forgetting Sarah Marshall', and I haven't read anything of yours in a while, so I decided to check this out.

Below are my comments I've made whilst reading (with a break to watch American Idol haha):

Page 2 - Marty's dialogue; "And for that, you’re a good friend and fantastic bartender." - I think you need "a" before "fantastic bartender".

The scene in the restaurant made me chuckle. A very well written scene - You subverted my expectations, so congrats.

BAM! There ya' go - I was thinking to myself, "You know what I think would work well? If Marty and Mikey were somehow related." I shudda' know you were on step ahead and had already thought of that ;) I really liked the scene with Ma as well. A good introduction of another character. And I like how Ma really contradicts what Marty said about her being a laid back type of women.

Page 15 - "Fine! And I take back all those nice things I said about you to Pat! You’re not cool!" Excellent piece of dialogue, my friend.

Page 18 - I didn't really like Marty's rant at the top of the page... It felt a bit un-natural. Sure, it provided some decent info into his back-story, and it might even sound alright once transferred onto screen, but for me, it didn't read too well.

Page 22 - Didn't like Sofia's line; "And it’s going to be fun, damnit, fun!" - I think the "damnit, fun" part was too much...

Page 27 - "What idea? I don’t one!" - I think you're missing the word "have"?

Page 27 - Mikey's dialogue - "Fine. Just wing it. Her." - sounds a bit awkward.

Page 31 - This action line; "Larry isn’t what you would call attractive, and the picture looking like it caught Larry by surprise when it was taken makes it clearer." would, in my opinion sound better as; "Larry isn’t what you would call attractive, and the picture, looking as if it caught him by surprise when it was taken, highlights this."

Page 36 - You say Mikey stands at Raven's apartment... I'm guessing you mean Marty?

Page 44 - I think Marty's line;"All that stuff I told you about feeling like a nothing?" would sound better if he said "feeling like a no-body".

Page 45 - Haha, Mikey's dancing/ the whole club scene reminds me of the fantastic scene in 'Knocked Up', where Ben Stone's (Rogen) friends watch him dancing, awkwardly with a girl he meets.

Page 49 - "Marty thinks it over for briefly." - Should be "Marty thinks it over briefly."

Page 64 - Zoe's line - "It’s just, I get ditched all the time, so I’ve pretty much come to expect it anymore." sounds weird... The "expect it anymore" part.

Page 84 - This slug line needs a "-" between the location, and time frame : "INT. ZOE’S APARTMENT DAY"

Page 93 - "Mary eases his hand out. All eyes are on it." - I think you mean Marty mate... unless you suddenly made another character who's name starts with "M" ;)

Okay, finished it, and really enjoyed it. You are definitely a talented writer; dialogue felt natural, and flowed well, descriptions were effective, concise and well written, and as noted above, your structure was spot on. Characters were well rounded, and developed, and they were all very different to each other (bar similarity of names, which I didn't have a problem with to be honest). I loved the way you introduced the characters as well. You did it in a very professional way, and you immediately showed us what type of people these were.

I didn't really have many complaints about the script as a whole. Sure, rom-coms aren't my favourite genre, but for what this was, it was very entertaining. It was a good read, and was genuinely funny. Plus, making the protag male meant this appealed to me more than the typical rom-com.

The only part of the script I didn't really like was like the final 5 or 6 pages... As noted above, I didn't like the way that Sofia and Ma fixed things. Okay, it worked in the story, and resolved the problem, but in my opinion, it made the outcome a little less satisfying.

Also, I didn't like the "One Year Later" scene... Well, I lie- I didn't mind the scene, but the dialogue in it was just too on-the-nose. I'm well aware that the dialogue has to be pretty on-the-nose, as you need to tell us a bunch of info that we haven't seen, but still, I think it was a bit too much. It might work well on screen, but I just didn't really enjoy reading it.

Also, I agree with what Sniper said (about the get in late, leave early thing - I thought the exact same thing when I read the first bar scene), and what GM said about the very last scene, with Ma phoning up the couples.

But overall, this was a very enjoyable script. I'm surprised I enjoyed it as much as I did... I was expecting a typical rom-com. Glad you didn't go down that street, and kept the cheesy-ness to a minimum.

Take it easy man, Toby :)
Posted by: Shelton, February 3rd, 2009, 10:02am; Reply: 11
Hey Toby,

Thanks for checking it out and pointing out some of the dropped words.  Those are alwasy a pain because spellcheck won't catch them.

Some of the dialogue parts you mentioned can seem a little weird on the page, but when spoken they sound a little more natural.

The issue with Marty fixing things makes sense, but I had to include something in there that gets Mikey and Sofia back together as well.  Sure, I could have made it an entirely separate scene, but I thought that something like that would have been a bit too basic, if not boring.

I could have had Marty make his charge up the fire escape, but ultimately Ma and Sofia would have still been there.  There's humor in that, but the end result is still the same as long as they're there to "help".

I'll take a look at the ending again.  I'm sure some stuff is pretty expository and just needs some adjusting.

Anyway, I'm glad you liked it on the whole, and thanks again for reading.
Posted by: Cam17, February 6th, 2009, 11:44am; Reply: 12
Mike,

I really enjoyed this one, and I breezed through it easily in one sitting.  It delivers all the goods you want in a date movie.  Girls will love all the romance, guys will really be able to identify with either Mikey or Marty.  I also liked how Ma had no first name.  Just Ma.

The title seemed a little abstract to me.  It made sense, but "The Order of Things" reminds me of a sci-fi or some Merchant-Ivory production.  I can't think of a better title off the top of my head, however.

The revelation with Maria threw me off a little.  Was she really going to marry Marty?  Unless Sofia was offering her massive amounts of cash, I have a hard time believing even a gold digger like her would go through with it.  And then if they did get married, the inevitable quickie divorce would crush Marty, and Sofia just seemed like a character who was above scheming like that.

The only other thing I could critique would be that scene at the end when they are all in the car and listen to Maria scream.  Just didn't buy that one.  It was a pretty bizarro scene for a film like this to have a vampire dude going downtown on a girl and the four of these people laughing at her pain.  I agree Maria needed some serious come-uppance, but that was an odd little set-up for Ma's call.

A couple typos I spotted:

On page 45:
"Mikey turns back toward the bar, a Bloody Mary now placed in front of him."

I believe it's Marty who turns back to the bar.

On page 50:
Marty thinks it over for briefly. Eureka!

I think you left the "for" in there accidentally.

Overall, this a very funny, polished script.  Great job.

Cam
Posted by: Shelton, February 6th, 2009, 2:23pm; Reply: 13
Hey Cam,

Thanks for checking it out.  I'm glad you enjoyed it and it was a quick read for you.  It was definitely my intention to have a finished product that could justfiiably be enjoyed by both men and women, and I think I did a pretty well in accomplishing that.  Especially since all the reviews on SS so far have been by men.  :)

The title is a little flat, I'll agree, but I'm yet to come up with anything that I like better yet.  I figure it serves its purpose for now, and can be changed down the line.

The Maria thing is a little tricky, whereas she was going to do it, granted for a specific amount of money, but it's never known how much.  I figured if I threw out a hard number, it would be called either too low or too high.  Sofia's role in all of it is that she's desperate, plain and simple.  Marty discovered that he could actually buy a wife on the internet, but wanted to try and get someone to like him for who he is first.  Sofia kind of takes that idea and uses it to her advantage, trying to keep it secret so nobody's feelings get hurt.  The script doesn't go into it as much as I have here, so I should probably look into adding that in.

The revenge on Maria is a little out of its element here, as others have commented on it.  That's an easy change to make though.

Toby caught the typos as well.  I need to update the copy on my website.

Thanks again for checking it out.
Posted by: Shelton, February 7th, 2009, 10:56pm; Reply: 14
Hey Pia,

Thanks for finishing it up, and for your notes in the early stages.  It helped me fix up the beginning to where it is now.

Glad you found things enjoyable, even if they are a little formulaic.  It's always hard with these kinds of scripts because ultimately, you're working off the boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy gets girl back scenario, and it's tough to make that fresh.

As far as how Marty and Zoe end up getting back together, I've done a little thinking about it and have come up with a way to fix it, while still using the key elements that get Mikey and Sofia back together as well.  It's just a matter of shuffling, really, but I think it will work.

And thanks for liking the scen with Costa.  All the other comments have been that it's kind of out of place.  I can't disagree with it, given the nature of the script, but I still think it's a funny comeuppance, while remaining PG-13.

Thanks again for reading.
Posted by: eprokay, February 9th, 2009, 11:12am; Reply: 15
Shelton,

Just finished your script.  Easy read and enjoyed it.

I have briefly scanned the other posts so sorry if what I have is a repeat.

P64 in the coffee shop, Marty confesses he likes Zoe and likewise.  This was a tough buy for me as well.  I believe someone above pointed out "minimal contact."  Would be nice to have a few more lines/actions helping us buy this other than just they make each other feel comfortable.

P 71 Marty psyching himself out with uppercuts before answering the door...had a good laugh.

In the end - I'm leaning more towards leaving out Larry and Raven at the reception.  Really didn't do much for me.

The phone converstation with Ma at the end.  Very good, but I thought delivering the lines face to face would be hilarious (ie facial expressions, body language, etc).  I didn't get the same effect by hearing Ma's wishes over the phone.  Maybe have Ma deliver her wishes at the reception??

So, congrats.  Great screenwrite.  And if you have time please check out Pledge Trip!

--EP
Posted by: Shelton, February 9th, 2009, 4:48pm; Reply: 16
Hey Eric,

Thanks for checking it out.  I;ve given some thought to a few things in regards to them having a little more interaction, and it would be a pretty quick fix since I know how I'd handled it.  Whenever I get around to adjusting some stuff on the back end, I'll probably fix this too.

As far as Raven and Larry at the end, it's kind of needed in my mind.  Larry is finally setting things right, like he wanted to do for most of the script, and Raven, well she plays a vital role in getting revenge on Maria, so I figured another gag with her wouldn't hurt either.

Ma delivering the line could work as an intercut scene, but I don't think there's anything in their body language that requires them to be face to face.

Thanks for reading, and I've left some feedback on Pledge Trip.
Posted by: YaBoyTopher, February 19th, 2009, 3:20pm; Reply: 17
I just read this all in one sitting. I have not read the other reviews so I apologize if I am repeating what you have already heard.

First of all, I have to say you are a fantastic writer, I aspire to have your ability one day (soon hopefully :) ) I breezed through this with ease. I have no critiques with your writing ability, there was a minor typo here or there but nothing that bothered me and I am sure someone else has pointed them out.

As far as the story itself. I am a fan of Rom Coms yet I was skeptical going into this because well lately it seems like every Rom Com I have read or watched has been very formulaic.

Overall I think you developed some good characters, I instantly knew the type of guy Marty was, I actually know quite a few guys like him. He is a likable character throughout the story and I found myself rooting for him to be happy. Mikey was kind of the civilized twin of Marty, he and Marty provided alot of of funny interaction.

With that said I had a problem with a few characters. Zoe for one, for her to be the main love interest in the story we just dont know her well enough, Marty and her relationship just seems so rushed and unrealistic, I know this whole concept is unrealistic but even by those standards it seems forced. I think you need to add some more interaction between her and Marty before you get to the dinner date fiasco to make it fit a little better.

Also Maria, You have the nice payoff with the vampire at the end, But for me she is not enough of a villain to really make that payoff work for me. Yes she showed villainous quality in the mothers house but she was in all of two or three scenes the entire script, I like the entire concept but I just didnt get as much enjoyment out of her demise as I would if she had a little more development in the story. Honestly I dont know how you would do this with her, But thats my gut reaction after reading.

Sophia kinda seemed off to me in a couple scenes also, this may have been more my false perception of her then your bad writing however. I just couldnt get a sense of who she was really, at different points I thought she was a loving girlfriend, spoiled snob and immature child. I dont really have a problem with her as a whole, Just thought I would mention my feelings on her character.

Ok so other then that I think your story was pretty darn solid, I laughed out loud a couple times. I thought alot of the banter between Marty and Mikey was pretty clever.  I liked the ending with Ma on the phone. I could definitely see this getting produced, it fits well in the genre and offers just enough variation to the formula to keep it interesting.

If you can just develop the relationship between Zoe and Marty a little more and maybe flesh out the Maria character a tad more I would have zero complaints with this script.

Great Job, Keep up the good work.
Posted by: Shelton, February 19th, 2009, 3:46pm; Reply: 18
Hey Topher,

Thanks for checking it out, and congratulations on being the first to read the most recent addition of this.  I snuck in a new version last night after completing a rewrite that had Marty taking care of things on his own.  Well, more anyway.  That was phase one of things I wanted to take care of, and phase two is a little bit more between Marty and Zoe.  There probably won't be a lot more to it, but something.

As far as Sophia goes, she seems to come off as kind of how I wanted her too.  She's got a lot of different things goign on with her in that she loves Mikey, but the whole prospect of waiting to get married takes a toll on her, and she makes a stupid mistake.

Maria was a tough one to write because I didn't want to give what was actually going on with her right away, thinking it would make for an interesting viewpoint on things.  A lot of times I see where the sabotage aspect is known, and it just falls a little flat.  Just hinting at it keeps the reader/viewer curious and occupied.  "What's her deal?"

Anyway, thanks for reading, and I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Posted by: Xavier, February 19th, 2009, 4:49pm; Reply: 19
Hey, Shelton

I've just finished your script, it took me a while, I was mad busy having to read a bunch of play scripts, and doing business with a few film students, but I'm finally finished. You know, just to add something, I don't think I've ever commented one of your scripts, I'm not sure.

I really have nothing to say about this script.  I liked it just the way it was.  The story worked, the dialog worked and I like the way you describe things with your actions.  I especially like the way you use your dialog, most of the time when I read a script I feel like this dialog is so cheesy and that no one talks like that, but not yours, sure there was probably one or two things that I thought who really says that but other than that it was great. I don't like to quote things out of scripts like most people, so forgive me if I'm confusing you just saying that I like the way you write with out giving you any examples.

Best of Luck to you in the future,

Xavier
Posted by: Shelton, February 20th, 2009, 9:37am; Reply: 20
Hey Xavier,

I don't recall you reading anything else of mine either, so thanks for starting out with a feature.

The biggest thing I'm taking away from these reviews is that people like the way I describe actions, and that it seems to have been a pretty quick read.  If you would have read some of my stuff a few years ago, you would have found a jumbled mess.

Anyway, thanks for the look, and I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Posted by: Scar44face, March 5th, 2009, 9:34pm; Reply: 21

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but I read this script upon the glowing recommendations that it received elsewhere on this thread, and I have to say that I find the others' enthusiasm mostly inexplicable. I'll try to be constructive:

First of all, people don't fall in love in one night. I know, love at first sight, magic of the movies, la, la, la, but the way you get Marty and Zoe together is monumentally too thin. A man with so solid a history of not meeting women will not find the love of his life in this offhand way. It would also behoove you to rework Zoe into a human being rather than a plot device who has no life and no ambition of her own apart from making your leading man happy. She's cut from the same mold as the Samantha character in GARDEN STATE, who is conveniently available and adorable whenever the movie needs her to be.

Another serious problem with your script is that the mother character is insane. Certifiable, in fact. If my mother decreed that I could not marry my girlfriend until my elder brother got married, I would have the old bat committed. I don't care if you're Italian or whatever, this is the twenty-first century, and if two grown men go along with a mandate like that, then they come across as through-and-through knuckleheads.

View 10 THINGS I HATE ABOUT YOU, which uses a similar plot device but does so successfully for a number of reasons. For one thing, the girls are younger in that picture and are actually subject to parental orders. Also, the overprotective father actually has scenes and backstory that EXPLAIN his paranoia (he was left by his wife, he delivers babies for a living, often to regretful teens). And the older sister in 10 THINGS also has a viable reason to resist coupling up with boys (she was raped in the original draft and sexually coerced in the version that was filmed). Your application of a similar plot borders on the laughable because you have two dimwitted adult men going along with a madwoman's idiotic ravings.

The younger brother's wife-to-be is also exceptionally annoying. When you introduce a character so egocentric that she's going to parade through a restaurant flaunting her engagement ring, you had better be creating a comic caricature. You actually seem to think it's a GOOD thing for the guy to marry her; I think it would be a tragedy.

You are similarly unclear about your protagonist. In some scenes, he's an unrelenting slob (the orange juice underwear scene) and in others a lovelorn teddy bear. Except for the late John Candy, there isn't an actor in the history of cinema who could make these two halves into one cohesive character. Even with Mr. Candy, the boorishness seemed unintentional and like a tragic flaw (of sorts) for a truly good-hearted man. When you have Marty walk in and lick orange juice off his palm, it seems participatory on his part. No one is that uncouth by accident.

Two other (vastly superior) films that you seem influenced by are MOONSTRUCK and THE BROTHERS MCMULLEN, in which the characters are bound in some way by their religious traditions. The mother character in your script, however, does not evince the slightest believability as a Catholic mother (never goes to Church, only prays in over-the-top fashion). Compare her with Olympia Dukakis in MOONSTRUCK, with all the bittersweet musings on marital infidelity and growing old as a woman. THE BROTHERS MCMULLEN, like your film, is about clueless young men who throw themselves into a maelstrom of romantic misadventures, but they actually seem to occupy the Irish Catholic tradition, and you can feel the burden on them as they try to do the right thing and suit themselves at the same time. Your characters definitely want to suit themselves, but doing the right thing is the furthest thing from their mind.

Dialogue is incredibly subjective, but I would be so bold to submit that your banter is not as clever as you and some of the other posters are leading you to believe. It seems to stem out of you, the writer, instead of that characters, as in the work of the inscrutably popular Diablo Cody. JUNO did a lot of business, but we're in for a lot of knock off films that are going to flop because that kind of dialogue exchange is more often grating than endearing. Try writing a bit more from the heart -- which is different than the tear ducts, mind you.

I see the rudimentary qualities of a screenwriter in you, and you're clearly a very young man who's still got much time to blossom. But this version of this script is nowhere in the vicinity of submission worthy, and I suggest a massive overhaul if the influential powers in La-La land are to take notice. I have the suspicion that if I passed this script on to my superiors in its current form, I would be fired.


Posted by: Shelton, March 5th, 2009, 10:23pm; Reply: 22
Thank you, whoever you are, for taking the time to check out my script and leave comments as your first post.  Not what me, or probably anyone else would want to hear, but the feedback is constructive, and I'll try to respond as best as I can.

First off, the love thing.  I have to say in my defense that there isn't one time in this entire script where they say they love each other.  Sure, Marty goes through a whole rigamarole in climbing the fire escape and what not, but when he ultimately gets her back, he does it by suggesting they take it slow and see how that works.

Yes, Ma is a little off, but it's more in the fact that she's extremely old fashioned than her just being a devout Catholic.  That's an entirely different set of rules that aren't really touche don here.  Plus, if Ma didn't have this weird quirk, where's the rest of my script?  "Hey, Ma, Sofia and I are getting married."  "Okay."  The End.

I see a lot of different movies here, and the only one that fits in with what I was trying to do was "10 Things" and even that it's only in what that itself was based on, The Taming of the Shrew.  The other part of this is somewhat based on "Marty".

There's something in what you're saying about the dialogue, in that I do have a habit of writing things the way I talk.  As far as trying to copy Diablo Cody?  Not a chance.  I'm not into clever catchphrases and things that are just going to come off as, like you said, more grating than endearing.  Note to self:  Never call anyone "home skillet" in a script.


Quoted from Scar44face
I see the rudimentary qualities of a screenwriter in you, and you're clearly a very young man who's still got much time to blossom. But this version of this script is nowhere in the vicinity of submission worthy, and I suggest a massive overhaul if the influential powers in La-La land are to take notice. I have the suspicion that if I passed this script on to my superiors in its current form, I would be fired.


I felt the need to quote this since it's related more to me personally than the work.  I think rudimentary is a term that I can handle at this point.  I've been writing for just over three years now, learning everything I have via self teaching.  I never went to school for writing, or any school for that matter after HS, so I'm still fairly new to this in the grand scheme of things.  Whether or not I'm considered to be young, I have no clue.  I'm 29.

As far as the powers in LA-LA land, they are not quite a blip on my radar yet.  I haven't been on the hunt for an agent or even thought about submitting to a studio, although I suppose one goes with the other anyway.  I'm still working on things, mainly expansion of story and characters, and learning to be comfortable in writing those big blocks of text I see in so many other bought specs and produced scripts.  In the meantime, I'm comfortable with the level of success I've achieved thus far.

In regards to your last sentence...

You're going to have a lot of fun here.

Thanks again for checking it out.
Posted by: Scar44face, March 5th, 2009, 11:09pm; Reply: 23

You take criticism better than most writers, and that is certainly to your credit. Keep writing, and the changes will be everpresent. The "big blocks" of text you're striving for...just remember that a movie is a series of IMAGES and EMOTIONS and NOTES!!! Just write those little blurbs from your gut and gives us a picture to work with.

I'm very surprised that you turned out a script like this (in format, much better than many aspiring writers) with no formal training.
Posted by: Shelton, March 5th, 2009, 11:14pm; Reply: 24

Quoted from Scar44face

You take criticism better than most writers, and that is certainly to your credit. Keep writing, and the changes will be everpresent. The "big blocks" of text you're striving for...just remember that a movie is a series of IMAGES and EMOTIONS and NOTES!!! Just write those little blurbs from your gut and gives us a picture to work with.


Thanks for the words of encouragement.


Quoted from Scar44face
I'm very surprised that you turned out a script like this (in format, much better than many aspiring writers) with no formal training.


If that surprises you, you should see how long I actually spent writing it. :)

Posted by: Murphy (Guest), March 6th, 2009, 2:23am; Reply: 25

Quoted from Scar44face

First of all, people don't fall in love in one night.


Sorry but I had to pipe up here.

I feel sorry for anybody who does not believe that it is possible to fall in love with somebody in one night, I really do.

When my now wife woke me up the morning after we first met* with a cup of coffee and a Marlborough while wearing nothing more than my Arsenal football shirt, I fell in love immediately. I really did.

Honestly, it happens. More than you think.


*Yeah, I know, she's easy. What can I say!
Posted by: stevie, March 6th, 2009, 2:45am; Reply: 26
Gary, u are a legend!  you sure you're not an aussie?
Posted by: bert, March 23rd, 2009, 7:26pm; Reply: 27
Hey Mike.  I finally had time to check this out, but not enough time to take formal notes for a monster review.  Hope you do not mind.

In fact, this does not need much by way of a review anyway, in that it serves as a nice showcase for your talent, your style, and the way your dialogue flows.

That is not to say it is a perfect script.  While the concept is sound, the driving force behind all of this is a little weak.  His mother simply telling him "no" -- and him abiding by that -- stretches the bounds of believability.

You might find some who can make that stretch, but it sure would be nice if you could devise something a little more compelling for the inciting event. I have thought about it and have not come up with anything better.  I will let you know if I do.

As far as characters, your main guys are distinct, well-developed, and easy to visualize.  The girls, less so, but probably good enough. Raven is pitch-perfect as far as I am concerned.

Usually it is your zany supporting characters that steal the show -- and while I have busted your chops about that in the past -- here I think they actually need a little more work.  All Larry really has to offer is his silly hat, and Mom is not given much to do, either.  Rounding out Larry and Mom would strengthen this story.

Most of the comedy worked well.  If I had to single out a joke, I would urge you to lose the one about the "internet tubes".  That one is already so dated -- but it is the only line I can recall that made me cringe.

On a completely random note, during Marty's triumphant climb up the fire escape, you have him say, "I am not afraid of heights", to which I replied, "Why not?"  You should give Marty a fear of heights.  Set this up earlier in the script, and the fire escape scene may work that much better.  

As far as the title, I am not so fond of this one, but then, I seldom like your titles.  The original working title, "Making Marty Married" if I recall, is superior to this current title.

Recapping:  Give Mom a more powerful motive; give more jokes to Mom and Larry.

Aside from those items, it is in good enough shape to pitch, and if it catches someone's eye, you can let them tell you what it needs.

Let me know if you have any specific questions on stuff and I will get back to you.

Posted by: bert, March 23rd, 2009, 7:43pm; Reply: 28

Quoted from Scar44face
You are similarly unclear about your protagonist. In some scenes, he's an unrelenting slob (the orange juice underwear scene) and in others a lovelorn teddy bear. Except for the late John Candy, there isn't an actor in the history of cinema who could make these two halves into one cohesive character.


Jack Black, anyone?

Seth Rogen is making a career out of this very character.

I do not disagree with everything Scar said, but I find this critcism completely unfounded.
Posted by: Shelton, March 23rd, 2009, 9:04pm; Reply: 29
Hey Bert,

Thanks for checking it out.  Much appreciated.


Quoted from bert
It serves as a nice showcase for your talent, your style, and the way your dialogue flows.


Thanks.  It's definitely a nice change from the last piece of feedback I got. :)


Quoted from bert
That is not to say it is a perfect script.  While the concept is sound, the driving force behind all of this is a little weak.  His mother simply telling him "no" -- and him abiding by that -- stretches the bounds of believability.

You might find some who can make that stretch, but it sure would be nice if you could devise something a little more compelling for the inciting event. I have thought about it and have not come up with anything better.  I will let you know if I do.


I think in a normal society, you're absolutely right, but given the context here it works.  It's more about two Italian guys, and how they don't want to upset their mother or go against her wishes.  It seems odd, but there are some who go way beyond just the usual show of respect.


Quoted from bert
As far as characters, your main guys are distinct, well-developed, and easy to visualize.  The girls, less so, but probably good enough. Raven is pitch-perfect as far as I am concerned.


I think my biggest concern at the moment is Maria, then Zoe.  Zoe could be easily added to if need be, but Maria I'm not so sure on.  Her role here is very basic, and I don't want to end up overdoing, which brings me to my next point...


Quoted from bert
Usually it is your zany supporting characters that steal the show -- and while I have busted your chops about that in the past -- here I think they actually need a little more work.  All Larry really has to offer is his silly hat, and Mom is not given much to do, either.  Rounding out Larry and Mom would strengthen this story.


...Larry.  I've gotten some feedback that how he was used was just enough, to the point where any more could be quite annoying.  Granted, the character is supposed to be annoying, but not to the reader.  He's there to be a thorn (albeit accidental) in the side of Marty.  I agree there could be more to Ma, I just haven't figured out what yet.


Quoted from bert
Most of the comedy worked well.  If I had to single out a joke, I would urge you to lose the one about the "internet tubes".  That one is already so dated -- but it is the only line I can recall that made me cringe.


Yes!  Larry's joke made you cringe.  Although that could go with my annoyance comment a second ago.  Hmmm.


Quoted from bert
On a completely random note, during Marty's triumphant climb up the fire escape, you have him say, "I am not afraid of heights", to which I replied, "Why not?"  You should give Marty a fear of heights.  Set this up earlier in the script, and the fire escape scene may work that much better.


Because then I really would be ripping off Pretty Woman.


Quoted from bert
Aside from those items, it is in good enough shape to pitch, and if it catches someone's eye, you can let them tell you what it needs.


Glad to hear it.  Got a few nibbles as of late, but nothing definitive.  Hopefully something will come through soon.  I'm just glad people think it won't get them fired.


Quoted from bert
Let me know if you have any specific questions on stuff and I will get back to you.


Nope, nothing specific on my end.  Thanks again for checking it out.
Posted by: CindyLKeller, March 27th, 2009, 5:25pm; Reply: 30
Hey Mike,

I just finished with your scipt.

Let me get this stuff out of the way first, the type o's...

page 5 He places "her" arms around her. I think you meant his.
page 19 "Why" makes you. I think you meant what.
page 89 He grabs a "piles"

Then there were dialogue at the bottom of pages that ran over onto the next page. Those were on pages 29 & 30, 87 & 88, 97 & 98, and 102 & 103.

Okay, now that that's over with, on to the story.

I thought it was a cute story. A feel-good story like "10 things", but different.
And that's fine, because 10 things worked, and so does your story.
I liked the Italian boys listening to their mother. Older boy getting married first.

Character wise
Everyone had their own agenda, and they worked together well.

Mikey and Marty were likeable. I liked that they listened to their mother  ;D but maybe you could show more of their mother as to the "why" they listened. Was she strict or did they do it because their father had died and she was still emotional over the loss, and they didn't want to see her sad so they listened.  ???

I liked Ma. I found her to be very comical.

Raven  ;D what's not to like about Raven.

Zoe, well, I liked her from her dialogue, but I didn't feel like I knew her.  I felt like I knew Raven more.

I think you could add some more about Zoe.
Where does she work? Her home life?
I think it would be funny if she worked with dogs. Maybe dog walked or groomed them from her home. That way they could be companions, (since she's used to getting dumped) and could scare Marty when he comes up the fire escape. It would also be nice if the dog ended up liking him. ?????

Just throwing things out there, Mike. You can either catch or let them fly by.  ;D

Yep, I like this one, Mike. I think you could get this one produced, but I think it needs a little more yet.

Cindy

Posted by: Shelton, March 27th, 2009, 6:36pm; Reply: 31
Hey Cindy,

Thanks for checking it out, and for spotting a few typos.  I'll take care of those asap.  The dialogue overruns, I don't normally worry about so much, but I'll look into those as well.

I'm glad that you enjoyed it, and you liked the characters.

You brought up some good points about Ma and Zoe, just as others have, and I plan on looking into them a bit more at some point.  I already had some ideas for Zoe, but Ma has been a little bit tougher to crack.

There's been a little bit of interest in at as far as getting it produced, so far, but nothing really hard set just yet.

Thanks, and I'll get you some feedback on your script soon.

Mike
Posted by: seamus19382, April 9th, 2009, 12:04pm; Reply: 32
Forget Jack Black and Seth Rogen.  You my friend, have written THE perfect Artie Lange vehicle.  This role would make him a movie star.

I like the idea of not the Mikey not being able to marry until after Marty.  IT's farfetched, but plausible.  My problem with it is that Mikey and Sofia are living in sin, so they've already broken one of my Ma's rules.  And if you know the old catholic broads, living in sin is probably worse than the younger brother getting married first.  

Maybe Mikey should live at home too.  He doesn't need Marty to get married just so he can get married, he needs Marty to get married so he can get out of the house.

Also, I'd have a scene where Mikey gets frustrated with Marty, feels like he's not really taking it seriously enough and blows up at him.  

I did really like it though.  A little talky, though I think that's more the romcom style, and i did think some of Marty and Zoe's conversations might have been a bit too on the nose, but nothing that isn't easily fixable.  
Posted by: Shelton, April 9th, 2009, 3:49pm; Reply: 33
Hey Seamus, thanks for checking it out.  Glad you enjoyed it.

You make a good point regarding the living in sin angle, and I did touch on this a bit in the script when Mikey and Sofia are talking.  She thinks she accomplished something with Ma in that regard, but she really didn't.  Interesting suggestion with Mikey living at home as well.  I'll have to look into that.

I do have an idea with Mikey getting frustrated, that ties into a little bit more between Marty and Zoe, so hopefully I'm on the right track there.  Just need to get around to writing it.

The talky thing is probably more my style than it just being a rom-com.  I think it's just more in place here.

Thanks again.
Posted by: personnumber123864, May 26th, 2009, 8:35am; Reply: 34
i realize i'm a little late for the party but i did want to congratulate you on a very good script. the pace is great. everything moves forward quickly and smoothly and, in the end, you got yourself a nice little story here. kudos.
Posted by: Shelton, May 26th, 2009, 9:40am; Reply: 35
Hey "person",

Comments are always apprciated, especially when scripts don't get looked at for awhile.  Thanks for checking it out, and I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Posted by: phayzer (Guest), October 28th, 2011, 1:38pm; Reply: 36
Mike – you’re a very strong writer and you understand funny–great original characters realistic dialogue and funny – you have the key gifts just need some work on pacing, stronger character archs and such. I tend to see things in the script that aren’t there intuitively additional characters scenes I like to pass them along if useful. I’ve made comments and suggestions below – take what you will from them and throw out the rest. There is often instinct or a reason behind what I’m suggesting feel free to ask why if not obvious – I’ve read a couple of your scripts nice to see the consistency in your talent.
THE ORDER OF THINGS
Title doesn’t say comedy – how about “Out of Order” poster could be Marty with an OOO sign and couple looking at him pleading with mom scolding
Opening- better to show us Marty is not marriage material not tell us – he’s a regular he and Pat might comment on someone’s divorce or lifestyle or whatever but doesn’t work for me that bartender is matchmaker  -if you want to go that route that everyone is pushing him to marry have Pat’s wife work at the bar with him do a set up where Pat talks about how wonderful marriage is then wife comes out and embarrasses him. Personally I’d rather see a couple regular die hard bachelors as Marty’s friends so when he makes decision to marry there is more conflict for him he may lose his friends helping out his brother.  I guess I see it more as Marty is protagonist rather than ensemble comedy.
Living together already and Sophia convincing mom doesn’t work for me audience will say who cares about piece of paper they are already living common law and you’ve already shown mom breaking rules– raise the stakes on both they can’t move in unless they are married – Mikey still lives at home Sophia has roommate that hates/irritates him she can’t afford to live alone the ONLY solution is to get married
The boys going along with mom’s rule can work –just bring in more of a back story tragedy of their fathers loss she’s done everything for them and give her a reason for the rule even if it’s crazy
If you like the bachelor boys at the bar would be funny to have Marty announce to them he plans to marry more comedy potential -spit takes galore  then he goes to Mike and Sophia – also could do a montage of how they suck up to him with cookies pleading etc so something is going on to “convince” him audience wants to see the shift in his decision – maybe he witness Sophia/them crying whatever
I didn’t buy Larry guaranteeing the courtship for Marty or no money exchanged –Marty is suppose to be a challenge –have him charge Mike double on the side
Zoey is not developed enough as a character since your main audience is women they need to relate to her – I think of Bridget Jones she wasn’t a 10 yet the men loved her because of her quirks. If you pull all her dialogue out and read it as one character you’ll see she’s not developed yet – you want the audience to fall in love with Marty and Zoey and route for them. Also was mentioned by someone else that not enough to distinguish their courting too easy why do they fall for eachother, again show us if the moment they realize they are in love isn’t there and the audience doesn’t see the build up they feel cheated.
It is a romcom you’re playing in a game with expectations, I keep coming back to the boys in the bar I would love to see them do a makeover for Marty a bad one his hair greased back a bow tie and ill fitting suit have fun with the genre
Sophia buying Maria’s involvement seems out of character for her – what if Maria needs a green card instead Sophia is trying to help both her friend and her situation makes her less of a bad guy just someone who screwed up and wasn’t thinking
Also mentioned previously that Marty needs to win her back more heroic win- after have everyone else show up and get into the action and maybe Zoey gets worried about what she’s gotten herself into.
Mom is Italian -? Mike and Marty show nothing of their cultural heritage they both seem white (and I agree on distinguishing their names) If your going to take us into Italian heritage show us something new about the culture besides pizza and mafia you’ve got great potential with Ma flesh that out –one of the reasons my big fat greek wedding worked was the audience loved the insiders look at the Greek culture
Here’s the film comparative you need to see: Bollywood Hollywood is a delightful, cross-cultural parody of both India's and America's musical film traditions. Directed by Deepa Mehta (Earth), Bollywood Hollywood concerns the desperate effort of wealthy businessman Rahul (Rahul Khanna) to get his mother and grandmother off his back when it comes to his romantic life. In love with a white pop-star girlfriend (Jessica Paré), Rahul's fortunes change when she dies. Still grieving, he is told by his mother that Rahul's only sister won't be allowed to marry until he finds a nice Indian girl to wed. The solution: hire a beautiful, dark-skinned, allegedly Spanish escort named Sue (Lisa Ray) to pose as his Indian fiancée. With tongue firmly planted in cheek, Mehta pokes fun at a number of Bollywood cinema clichés, especially that familiar mix of modern luxury and old world traditions, melodramas involving the saddest of character backstories, and spontaneous musical numbers that remind one as much of Hollywood's Golden Age as Bollywood's current one. --Tom Keogh

This is my first post hope its not too long winded
Posted by: Don, June 17th, 2022, 9:54am; Reply: 37
"So, I never thought in my wildest dreams I would type a sentence like this. My screenplay, The Order of Things, is currently going up against Jurassic World in theaters. In Nigeria."

- Mike Shelton
  June 15, 2022
Print page generated: March 28th, 2024, 9:21am