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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board  /  April, 2009 One Week Challenge  /  Regarding The Great Edmund Bicker Post in OWC
Posted by: Shelton, April 13th, 2009, 2:01am
I will just go on record as saying, first and foremost, that the writer of the script, who has chosen to remain anonymous, is really curious to see this line by line feedback.  So, if the person offering it (Jeff) is still up to it, then have at it.  If not, please admit it now.
Posted by: mcornetto (Guest), April 13th, 2009, 2:01am; Reply: 1
Ok. I wrote this script.  And to be honest I let Jeff's first comment pass.  However, when he offered to go head to head with Gary line by line about how badly written this script is I must admit that I was pretty insulted.  I still am and would like him to back up his threat. Now.
Posted by: Shelton, April 13th, 2009, 2:02am; Reply: 2

Quoted from mcornetto
Ok. I wrote this script.  And to be honest I let Jeff's first comment pass.  However, when he offered to go head to head with Gary line by line about how badly written this script is I must admit that I was pretty insulted.  I still am and would like him to back up his threat. Now.


I tried saying that before, but George kept deleting posts without reading anything.

Posted by: Dreamscale, April 13th, 2009, 2:03am; Reply: 3
As I said in an earlier deleted post, I will do that.  It will take a little time,a dn I'm not going to be doing it Easter night.  Hope you can wait.  Sorry Michael.  Nothing was meant as an insult.  We can go voer it all.
Posted by: George Willson, April 13th, 2009, 2:11am; Reply: 4

Quoted from Shelton


I tried saying that before, but George kept deleting posts without reading anything.



Let me say for the record that I did read every single post... Twice. I went through the entire thread as it existed and saw very little beyond an argument that may have come from the script, but did not deal with the script. The continual "line by line" request was more a challenge for Dreamscale to put his money where his mouth is as opposed to actually creating something beneficial for the author here.

If you want to insult each other, that's your decision. However, one of my "jobs" around here is to try and ensure that conversations don't spiral out of control. Yes, I've been guilty of spiraling before. Who hasn't? But at some point, you've got to reign it in.

It wasn't ending, so I reigned in the entire thread. However, you've continued this back and forth, and now brought me into it by virtue of me just trying to keep it under control.

I'm not participating in the brawl, but now you have your own shiny new thread to do it in. Enjoy.
Posted by: Shelton, April 13th, 2009, 2:16am; Reply: 5
So, every time an argument about a script goes "out of control" we're going to start a new thread for it?  Wow, Don's bandwidth fees are going to go through the roof.

You are right, there were a lot of responses to the line by line threat, but honestly, if somebody is going to throw something like that out there, they should be prepared for the backlash.  This person wasn't, and now they just look like a fool, despite your deletions and attempts to save them, intentionally or not.  

Your job may be to keep threads and discussions clean, but it's also about being proactive and making sure that these things don't happen in the future.  There's no quicker way to accomplish that than calling bullshit on someone.  And to say there's no benefit in getting a line by line critique from someone?  Well, that's just ridiculous, good feedback or not.
Posted by: George Willson, April 13th, 2009, 2:20am; Reply: 6
Calling bullshit on someone is fine and effective. That's cool. Doing it 15 times in a thread that continues to ellicit incited responses isn't cool.

Oh, and while a new thread is normally unnecessary, since the conversation continued, and you made a clear accustion that I deleted without merit, I felt it necessary to retain the discussion that did continue.
Posted by: Shelton, April 13th, 2009, 2:24am; Reply: 7

Quoted from George Willson
Calling bullshit on someone is fine and effective. That's cool. Doing it 15 times in a thread that continues to ellicit incited responses isn't cool.


Only when that person admits it's bullshit.  If they don't?  Fair game.


Quoted from George Willson
Oh, and while a new thread is normally unnecessary, since the conversation continued, and you made a clear accustion that I deleted without merit, I felt it necessary to retain the discussion that did continue.


There was really no reason for you to delete it in the first place.


Posted by: Dreamscale, April 13th, 2009, 2:26am; Reply: 8
I got deleted again.

As I just wrote, I am fully prepared to back up what I said...and I will.  Reread my initial post and you'll see that i did give examples of what I said.  Overuse of wrylies, incorrect use of wrylies, dull, lack of story, and no secret (IMO).

I will provide a much more complete review for Mike and his little cronie, Giles.

Also, Jon posted similar comments on this script as well. (Sorry Jonnyboy, had to try and pull someone else in as well).
Posted by: Shelton, April 13th, 2009, 2:30am; Reply: 9

Quoted from Dreamscale

I will provide a much more complete review for Mike and his little cronie, Giles.


It's not for me, it's for the author.

I will wonder how you can assess something as dull, though, since that's subjective.  I'll also wonder about your interpretation of lack of story, since you missed what the secret was.

I will look forward to your thing about the wrylies though, since if you look at my review, I did say some of them were odd.
Posted by: MBCgirl, April 13th, 2009, 2:36am; Reply: 10
Why are my posts not here Georgie :)

Shelton...you know I like both you and Dreamscale...and since it's MCornetto's script...he's obviously one of my favorites of this entire site.  I respect all 3 of you and I hardly think this "spiraling out of hand" situation is good for anyone.

I think this is between Cornetto and Dreamscale.

If we stop feeding the fire...it will die. :)  I'm installing a zipper on my lips! :)


Posted by: George Willson, April 13th, 2009, 2:37am; Reply: 11

Quoted from Dreamscale
I got deleted again.


For the record, I haven't touched anything since I split these posts onto this thread.

Posted by: Dreamscale, April 13th, 2009, 2:39am; Reply: 12
Mike, based on your inability to let it go, it seems like it is for you...that's probably another whole post, though.

Yes, dull is subjective, so whatever I say is dull to me, means it's dull to me.

Lack of story is also subjective for the most part, but I'll go into why.  Missing the secret might mean that the "secret" wasn't much of a secret, IMO.

If you agree about the misuse of wrylies, you should have some kind of understanding why I said it was poorly written.

Biggest problem was the dialogue...which I guess you'll say is subjective again.  I will go over what lines didn't work and why, IMO.

I write honest comments. I don't base them on who the author is...unlike a few in here, obviously, which I think is complete horseshit, and takes away all the integrity of something like this.
Posted by: Shelton, April 13th, 2009, 2:40am; Reply: 13

Quoted from Dreamscale

I write honest comments. I don't base them on who the author is...unlike a few in here, obviously, which I think is complete horseshit, and takes away all the integrity of something like this.


You don't have any choice with an OWC.  It's all anonymous.
Posted by: Dreamscale, April 13th, 2009, 2:43am; Reply: 14
That's BS, and you frickin' know it!  Don't lie so blatantly, Mike.  C'mon now, I already know the deal...
Posted by: Shelton, April 13th, 2009, 2:45am; Reply: 15

Quoted from Dreamscale
That's BS, and you frickin' know it!  Don't lie so blatantly, Mike.  C'mon now, I already know the deal...


The deal on what?  I seriously have no idea what you're talking about.
Posted by: Dreamscale, April 13th, 2009, 2:48am; Reply: 16
Mike, c'mon, man.  I was already informed earlier about something, and I already had more than a sneaky suspicion, based on an earlier post that mysterioulsy went from very positive to very negative,a dn then a bunch of other posts that had nothing to do with the particular thread also mysterioulsy vanished.

Still don't know what I'm talking about?
Posted by: Shelton, April 13th, 2009, 2:50am; Reply: 17

Quoted from Dreamscale
Mike, c'mon, man.  I was already informed earlier about something, and I already had more than a sneaky suspicion, based on an earlier post that mysterioulsy went from very positive to very negative,a dn then a bunch of other posts that had nothing to do with the particular thread also mysterioulsy vanished.

Still don't know what I'm talking about?


No, not really, but I'm enjoying how you think I'm aware of absolutely everything that goes on on this board.

Did someone give you a bad review or something?

Posted by: Dreamscale, April 13th, 2009, 2:55am; Reply: 18
Mike, if you're not involved, then I apologize, but there are others who are involved, and they know who they are.  I have this sneaky suspicion you do as well.
Posted by: Shelton, April 13th, 2009, 2:56am; Reply: 19

Quoted from Dreamscale
Mike, if you're not involved, then I apologize, but there are others who are involved, and they know who they are.  I have this sneaky suspicion you do as well.


Well, that's all well and good for your sneaky suspicions, but I don't have an inkling of what you're talking about.  This shit is way too vague for me.

Posted by: Old Time Wesley, April 13th, 2009, 3:02am; Reply: 20

Quoted from Dreamscale


I write honest comments. I don't base them on who the author is...unlike a few in here, obviously, which I think is complete horseshit, and takes away all the integrity of something like this.


I actually agree with this statement.

It is garbage for anyone to say "This is 100% anonymous" when people ship scripts back and forth for reads before the deadline.

Most of the time you don't know but certain people always know.
Posted by: Shelton, April 13th, 2009, 3:04am; Reply: 21

Quoted from Old Time Wesley


I actually agree with this statement.

It is garbage for anyone to say "This is 100% anonymous" when people ship scripts back and forth for reads before the deadline.

Most of the time you don't know but certain people always know.


Maybe, but I don't know, and that's all I'm saying since I've been accused of knowing something ahead of time.

I didn't even know he wrote a script, let alone send it to anyone.

Posted by: Dreamscale, April 13th, 2009, 3:05am; Reply: 22
Well Wes and Mike, it's deeper than that.  If you guys seriously don't know what I'm talking about, we'll just leave it at that.  But I do know, and I'm not happy about it.
Posted by: Dreamscale, April 13th, 2009, 3:06am; Reply: 23
No, Mike, I didn't send it to anyone.  That's the really annoying part.
Posted by: Shelton, April 13th, 2009, 3:07am; Reply: 24
I have no idea what you know.

This whole thing is just bizarre.
Posted by: JonnyBoy, April 13th, 2009, 3:10am; Reply: 25
I'm confused. Tell you what else confuses me: the rules about wrylies. I have a thread on it, actually. Anyone fancy answering on it? (preferably AGREEING with me, you bastards! :) )
Posted by: Dreamscale, April 13th, 2009, 3:11am; Reply: 26
Mike, are you being serious?  Cause I am, and I'm not bullshitting in any way.  I'm not going to reveal my sources, but I do know from 2 trusted sources that there was some horseshit going on in the thread of my OWC entry.  I also saw it first hand, since I was monitoring the feedback I was getting.

And it has absolutely nothing to do with positive or negative feedback.  The integrity has been thrown out teh window by at least 1 person, and by the looks of things, a few others as well.
Posted by: Tommyp, April 13th, 2009, 3:12am; Reply: 27
Jon, people have responded!

All this useless posting is enough from you!!

Now go to your room and clean up your toys... and no dessert for you for a week!!!! :)
Posted by: Old Time Wesley, April 13th, 2009, 3:12am; Reply: 28

Quoted from Dreamscale
Well Wes and Mike, it's deeper than that.  If you guys seriously don't know what I'm talking about, we'll just leave it at that.  But I do know, and I'm not happy about it.


I'm not in the loop about anything anymore. I've been foreseeing my walking papers for a long time now.
Posted by: Dreamscale, April 13th, 2009, 3:13am; Reply: 29
Jon, I'll respond to you tomorrow...got to go to bed.

What George said was completely correct and I said that.  I'l go into more detail with you on a PM tomorrow.
Posted by: Shelton, April 13th, 2009, 3:14am; Reply: 30

Quoted from Dreamscale
Mike, are you being serious?  Cause I am, and I'm not bullshitting in any way.  I'm not going to reveal my sources, but I do know from 2 trusted sources that there was some horseshit going on in the thread of my OWC entry.  I also saw it first hand, since I was monitoring the feedback I was getting.

And it has absolutely nothing to do with positive or negative feedback.  The integrity has been thrown out teh window by at least 1 person, and by the looks of things, a few others as well.


I am being serious, and I can't agree or disagree with you because I don't know which script is yours and I can't analyze the thread.

Posted by: Murphy (Guest), April 13th, 2009, 4:59am; Reply: 31

Quoted from Dreamscale
No, Mike, I didn't send it to anyone.  That's the really annoying part.


No, but you have left your name attached to the file. you cannot really be that upset about somebody knowing which script is yours just because your name is on it.

I knew you knew that i knew because I told someone i knew and knew that he would tell you that i knew.*

Do I feel bad? Do I bollocks. I honestly did not want to leave you a good review due to the ridiculous things you have been saying on other threads.

Get over it and stop crying about it. If you are not prepared to take some shit back then you should not be giving it in the first place.


*Cheers btw TommyP, you must of known I knew you were digging for Jeff, yes?
Posted by: Dreamscale, April 13th, 2009, 12:44pm; Reply: 32
Giles, getting shit back or poor reviews isn't what this is about.  It's about some little A-Hole completely changing their review based on who wrote the script, and then telling others about it so they could also start in on the thrashing.

Don't blame anyone here, either. I was monitoring the thread and saw your review mysteriously disappear and get replaced with a completely opposite review as well as all the other posts that got deleted talking about it being my script and that no one should read it.

Dude, talk about little 13 year old girls?  Wow, you're unreal.  You should be proud of yourself, Gary...it takes a real big man to do that kind of shite.
Posted by: Shelton, April 13th, 2009, 12:59pm; Reply: 33

Quoted from Dreamscale
as well as all the other posts that got deleted talking about it being my script and that no one should read it.


As they should have been.  I don't think anybody's script should have flags on it telling people not to read it, especially when it's based solely on who wrote it, and in this case it's only alleged because it's an anonymous OWC submission.  I think we had a similar discussion before regarding Sniper's script, no?
Posted by: Dreamscale, April 13th, 2009, 1:15pm; Reply: 34
No, MIke, I don't think that's quite the same thing at all.  And for whatever similarities you find with that, keep in mind that I sent a PM to the author of said script, apologizing, as well as deleting the comments I had made.  The author accepted my apology, and as far as I know, we have no problems..  And the comments that I did make had absolutely nothing to do with who the author was...it was based on the script itself.

So, Mike, you're still saying that you weren't aware this was going on when it started yesterday evening (night, your time)?  And how did you know that Edmund was Cornetto's script, anyway?

Smells like a bunch of dead carp in here...
Posted by: Shelton, April 13th, 2009, 1:22pm; Reply: 35

Quoted from Dreamscale

So, Mike, you're still saying that you weren't aware this was going on when it started yesterday evening (night, your time)?  And how did you know that Edmund was Cornetto's script, anyway?


Yes, I knew about it all along, and I sent out a slew of PMs telling people to bash your script or not read it at all because you had written it, and then I went into other people's post and changed their reviews, just to make you look bad.  And, I'm being facetious.

I learned that it was Cornetto's script after the fact, when he pm'ed me.  He wanted me to pass on the message that he would be interested in a line by line review, but didn't want to fully out himself as the wriiter in the thread.

Is this going to be a long day of bs and arguing?  Because I'm really not in the mood for it.

Posted by: Dreamscale, April 13th, 2009, 1:27pm; Reply: 36
Nope, Mike, I'm done with it.  You know how I feel about this, and I know how you feel.  No need to continue it.  My last post on this thread (and no, Giles, I won't be responding to you either when you chime in).

Sorry for all the trouble in here.
Posted by: JamminGirl, April 13th, 2009, 4:44pm; Reply: 37

Quoted from mcornetto
Ok. I wrote this script.  


Hi, it's good to see the author of the script. :)

I must say firstly that most of the format was spot on. However you used wrylies incorrectly at times. Two examples:

KIRSH
In the case of teenagers waiting
is the best option. Did you bring
a picture of her?
(Helmut hands it over)
Pretty young thing.


and


HELMUT
Old enough for what?
(no response)
For what! -- I forbid you to see
this boy! Hes no good I tell
you.


Since Helmut was waiting for Bridgette's response the 'no response' should be an action line with Helmut(CONT'D) proceeding. The same goes for the action of Helmut while Kirsh speaks.

In terms of the story, honestly, I didn't get it. The world introduced was much like ours. All logic. So when at the end we find a talking animal, it just didn't fit.  Perhaps you should have introduce something at the beginning to let us know this is a quirky storyworld. Instead, it felt like the talking horse was a fix to a story that had no real ending.

I didn't understand why helmut felt the need to go calling his 17 year old daughter while wearing only a towel. It felt really innapropriate. So much so that I started reading into his motives for not wanting her to have a boyfriend...

I hope you don't take this as an insult. I think you deserve real feedback otherwise you would have only written it for your friends.




Posted by: Murphy (Guest), April 13th, 2009, 5:26pm; Reply: 38

Quoted from JamminGirl
In terms of the story, honestly, I didn't get it. The world introduced was much like ours. All logic. So when at the end we find a talking animal, it just didn't fit.  Perhaps you should have introduce something at the beginning to let us know this is a quirky storyworld. Instead, it felt like the talking horse was a fix to a story that had no real ending.


Hi JamminGirl,

You may want to go and read the ending again....
Posted by: JamminGirl, April 13th, 2009, 6:10pm; Reply: 39

Quoted from Murphy


Hi JamminGirl,

You may want to go and read the ending again....


LOL! ah yes, I read a talking horse. My bad.
So the non-Aryan boy behind the horse is the secret then? That might've already been evidenced by his name.
Posted by: Murphy (Guest), April 13th, 2009, 6:28pm; Reply: 40

Quoted from Dreamscale
Smells like a bunch of dead carp in here...


It does indeed.

My issues with you go right back, past your OWC reviews and I think you know that. It was that complete balls up of the script club vote where I am 100% that you cheated on the voting in order to push your own agenda. This was my reason for using the information I had to hand to change my review of your script. Call it revenge, or just pure spitefulness, whatever you want to be honest. Childish? Damn right it was. Do I care? No.

What goes around comes around Jeff.

I had hoped you would learn a lesson.


I am going to be gone for a while, I have a feature to write and have a busy time ahead of me. I hope that things will simmer down somewhat with one less disruptive influence around the place, maybe you will learn how to be respectful about other peoples work and this place can go back to being one big happy family again.

Posted by: Grandma Bear, April 13th, 2009, 6:33pm; Reply: 41
Some people cheated on the voting?

If that's true, I'm very disappointed!  :-/
Posted by: michel, April 13th, 2009, 6:38pm; Reply: 42

Quoted from Grandma Bear
Some people cheated on the voting?


Don't be abrasive, Pia.
Posted by: Dreamscale, April 13th, 2009, 6:38pm; Reply: 43
I did not cheat in any way on any voting.  I had no reason whatsoever to cheat on anything, and I seriously find this comment unbelievable...especially coming from a guy who at least now admits to changing his review of my OWC because he found it was mine, and then going all out to try and make sure everyone dissed or avoided it.

Giles, what are you basing your accusations on?  This should be interesting.
Posted by: JonnyBoy, April 13th, 2009, 6:40pm; Reply: 44
So much for you guys putting it behind you...
Posted by: Murphy (Guest), April 13th, 2009, 6:46pm; Reply: 45

Quoted from Dreamscale
I did not cheat in any way on any voting.  I had no reason whatsoever to cheat on anything, and I seriously find this comment unbelievable


I am surprised you do,  because when i last challenged you on this at the time you had no answer, not even a denial. You can argue all day, I can argue all day, it will not change anything. I will always know though and you will always know too. Nothing more to say on that one.



Quoted from Dreamscale
..especially coming from a guy who at least now admits to changing his review of my OWC because he found it was mine, and then going all out to try and make sure everyone dissed or avoided it..


I never denied it, check my posts. The minute you accused me I admitted it. I have nothing to hide, or lie about.  In fact I only actually told someone who I knew would tell you. I never went out of my way to make sure everyone dissed or avoided it. You are being paranoid now.

Nobody else as far as I am aware actually knew. Please do not get carried away thinking that anyone who left you a negative review only did so because they knew it was yours. Is your ego really that big? Maybe they just did not like your script, did that thought ever cross your mind?


Posted by: Murphy (Guest), April 13th, 2009, 6:46pm; Reply: 46
Like I said, I am gone now. Stay around and argue with yourself if you want.
Posted by: Shelton, April 13th, 2009, 6:48pm; Reply: 47
I feel like this right now.
Posted by: JonnyBoy, April 13th, 2009, 6:49pm; Reply: 48
As attempts to diffuse the tension go, that's quite a good one. :)

Can't see it working, though...
Posted by: Dreamscale, April 13th, 2009, 6:56pm; Reply: 49
I don't think arguing is quite the right word to use here.

Why would I, or anyone else, want to cheat in voting for a SC? How would one go about doing that?  You seem to be the only one I know that does stuff like this, and you've already admitted and proven it.

I don't care at all about negative feedback.  Any feedback is good feedback, in my book.

I just seriously find it completely and utterly outlandish for someone to accuse someone of anything like this.  I think we need George to step in here and clarify this...I'm sure there is a way to go back and see exactly where every single vote came from.  I can guarrantee you and everyone else that I didn't do anything remotely dishonest with whatever vote you're referring to.

It will be funny when we find out which OWC is yours...I bet it's 1 of the 5 that I reviewed very poorly (out of 23 reviews, 4 of them being very positive).  Talk about not being able to take criticism...WOW!

How old are you, anyway, Giles?  You're about as immature as they come.
Posted by: Shelton, April 13th, 2009, 7:25pm; Reply: 50
*There can be only one!!!!







*Argument thread.
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