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Posted by: Don, September 9th, 2009, 6:52pm
Pub Lunch by Anthony Hudson (alffy) - Comedy, Horror - Three trainee chefs decide they need a break before their upcoming exams, but is the English countryside the best place, and have they ordered more than they can eat? 101 pages - pdf, format 8)
Posted by: craig cooper-flintstone, September 10th, 2009, 4:46am; Reply: 1
Hi Alffy,

I must say I really enjoyed this. It started out like  a northern road movie, but I loved how it quickly spun into league of gentlemen territory!

The laughs and gore were perfectly paced, the characters were funny, and it's one of the better scripts I've read recently.

Excellent work, chap.

Craig
Posted by: sniper, September 10th, 2009, 4:59am; Reply: 2
Hey alffy,

Is this the feature version of Meat Pies?
Posted by: alffy, September 10th, 2009, 8:08am; Reply: 3
Yes it is Rob.

And cheers for the read Craig, and pointing out the spelling before I posted it.
Posted by: craig cooper-flintstone, September 10th, 2009, 3:44pm; Reply: 4
No worries, it was well worth the read, and very funny.

Top job
Posted by: grademan, September 10th, 2009, 4:42pm; Reply: 5
Alffy.

I liked this. The last 20 pages were especially good. Action and chopping!

A couple of questions:

Do you have any other ideas for the title? Pub Lunch seems a little drab. Chefs in Training? Maybe not.

I wasn't clear on the lads being chef trainees until they mentioned the Chef in passing. Perhaps more of a statement in the beginnng?

Is the opening scene supposed to be of their training kitchen or of the Arm's kitchen? I like the ambiguity. Your description of the carrot slicing is magical, since knives are usually held by someone's hand. I was thinking we were at Hogwarts.

Some funny lines in here. My wife always looks at me strangely when I laugh out loud by the PC monitor.

Story issues:  

Slow start to set up 3 protags and the chopping victims. Tension was better the last half. The first chop wasn't until page 14. A little outside the 10 page guideline. Just saying.

The lads never talk like they are chefs in training until the very end. Their should be some familiarity with the kitchen. Maybe they could notice the grinder is a top shelf grinder "Say look a that grinder -- isn't that the latest model?" Or not quite that lame.

The Kelly fallling for Gav thing wasn't quite believable. She's done this before. What was it about Gav that had her going against the family grain? Maybe if Kelly suspected the truth about her mother....

The logic of blaming the disappearances on bus crashes and a crooked cop doesn't hold up.  Close. But not quite.

The lads deciding to become THE chefs at the end wasn't likable at first. I felt it was too convenient. Maybe not. This will depend on the audience.

I did like how the secret about Kelly's mother popped out.

Kudos.

Gary
Posted by: alffy, September 12th, 2009, 11:57am; Reply: 6
Cheers for the read Gary


Quoted from grademan
Do you have any other ideas for the title? Pub Lunch seems a little drab.


I'm not that keen on the title either but I really couldn't think of anything better.


Quoted from grademan
I wasn't clear on the lads being chef trainees until they mentioned the Chef in passing.


Yeah, I wasn't sure I'd made it clear they were chefs but I didn't want to make it obvious from the start.


Quoted from grademan
Some funny lines in here. My wife always looks at me strangely when I laugh out loud by the PC monitor.


Lol, glad you found it funny.


Quoted from grademan
The lads never talk like they are chefs in training until the very end. Their should be some familiarity with the kitchen. Maybe they could notice the grinder is a top shelf grinder "Say look a that grinder -- isn't that the latest model?"


I like this idea, thanks man.


Quoted from grademan
The Kelly fallling for Gav thing wasn't quite believable. She's done this before. What was it about Gav that had her going against the family grain? Maybe if Kelly suspected the truth about her mother....


Another good point Gary.  Again I think I should improve this.  I wanted her to loath her father and find Laura annoying, that's why she finally decides to stop.  It's Gav's lovability that finally convinces her to stop.


Quoted from grademan
The logic of blaming the disappearances on bus crashes and a crooked cop doesn't hold up.  Close. But not quite.


I was going to come up with a whole long winded explaination of how the village has been getting away with murder but in the end I thought it would take too long and ditract from the story.  Also I figured there's plenty of horror films that I watch and think, how did no one else suspect what was going on lol.

Thanks again for the read Gary and also that you enjoyed it.  Your suggestions are very insightful and could well end up in the update.  Cheers mate.
Posted by: Brian M, September 12th, 2009, 4:03pm; Reply: 7
Hey Alffy,

I’m going to be honest and say I’m on the fence with this one. It does have numerous problems and comes across as a first draft that has had no revisions whatsoever but does have potential to be a good British horror/comedy, very much like “The Cottage”. Am I right in saying this is a feature based on one of your shorts? I could see this idea working very well for a short, but to make a feature out of this, your script may need a bit more “meat” to beef it up, especially on character development, which I will get to very soon.

The first thing I have to mention is the amount of errors in spelling and grammar throughout. That’s why I think this is a first draft. There must be about fifty or more instances where you missed out a question mark at the end of a sentence when there should have been one. Loads more instances when dialogue should have been broken up with a comma and wasn’t. Countless instances of the use of “lets” instead of “let’s”. They really did spoil the read for me but they can be easily fixed. I did start to list the mistakes but had to stop before page ten as it was taking a lot of time.  A few reads over should and you will catch them.

Your story holds up fine, with comedy and horror elements here. Lots of funny lines littered throughout, most leaving me with a smile on my face, some making me laugh out loud. Very British humour, some will get it, some don’t, it’s the same with all comedy. One flaw with the story for me is that everything was too predictable. The moment the pies were mentioned, I knew right away it was not normal meat inside them. It was also very obvious Kelly was involved when they ordered from the specials menu. I think you should try and make some of these things less obvious, so when you reveal Kelly to be involved, we are surprised. Same goes for Jason when he pulls the knife on Colin. We should be surprised the gay guy on the bus is in it too. I can’t speak for everyone, but nothing came as a surprise. I think things can be revealed slowly, like at the start you make the Butcher out to be the killer, then Howard, then it’s obvious everyone is involved. Maybe working on the reveals of Kelly and Jason being involved so they are not as obvious could help this greatly. The ending was a bit far out, but in my opinion, worked for the story. As for the start, it took a while for things to kick off, which can be a problem if readers go by the ten page rule.

The biggest problem I had was the characters. It was very hard to work out who your main characters were as you introduced Colin and Susan first, and then the three guys, all on the first page. It was quite a bit to take in and a few times I had to go back and check which one was the overweight one and so on. Character descriptions didn’t tell me much other than what they were wearing, nothing about they type of person they are. There are some exceptions, one description I noted, “He wears an old Rock band T-shirt, his beer gut hanging proudly over his waist band.”, that description was great and gave me a vision of this character. Other descriptions, like telling me they are wearing blue jeans and a whatever colour shirt didn’t work as well. On to the actual characters, the Butcher was the big bad guy but they took care of him pretty easily in the end. He should put up more of a fight. I got the feeling Jason was just gay for the sake of it, just to make him different from the others. Out of your three main characters, Mozza stood out, probably because he had all the good lines. There were nothing really special about the rest of them. We didn’t find out until the end about the Chef thing (I’ve only just noticed it’s mentioned in the logline), which I don’t know if that was intentional or not as it did feel like it was added on so they could make the pies at the end.

Gav and Kelly’s relationship was not very realistic. She has been doing what she’s been doing for a long time, yet she has feelings for Gav after winking at him across a bar? You’ve got to add more to there relationship for this to work. They should have a meaningful conversation in the bar where we find out more about there characters, Kelly’s mum for instance, Gav’s exams, things like that. Add more layers so we can care for them and then believe that Kelly would warn Gav to leave because she feels so strongly for him. The bit about Kelly’s mum seemed tagged on but should have been touched on much earlier. It seems it was just put there in the end so we could root for her despite her previous actions.

Our characters don’t feel much guilt after smashing Colin with the bus, even in the end when they are cooking pies. Show them feeling sorry for a bit, could go a long way. Telling us more about them, and not just what they’re wearing is a must for the next draft.

So that’s my thoughts on this. I won’t lie, I was a little disappointed as your short (The Chocolatier) is one of the best scripts I’ve read on this site. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not bad. I’m very sorry if I’ve came across as harsh but better being honest and saying everything I thought while reading. For me, right now it is very so-so, but could be much better with more work on the characters. I like British Comedy/Horror movies and this could fit in with the best of them with more work.  

Good Luck.

Brian
Posted by: alffy, September 13th, 2009, 9:01am; Reply: 8
Cheers for your thoughts Brian, and your honesty.  

You're right, this is a first draft but I honestly didn't think I had quite so many spelling errors in it, sorry for that.

I'll try and beef up the characters a bit more for the rewrite and work on the relationship between Kelly and Gav.  I guess you're right in that they don't really connect, other than in the bedroom.

Some of the problems I had was simply adding story from the short but I thought I'd done it ok, and also I didn't want it to run much longer than it is but I guess I shouldn't worry about that and just add more to help my characters.

I'm glad you found it funny though.

Thanks for the read Brian.
Posted by: Scoob, September 17th, 2009, 8:05pm; Reply: 9
Hi Anthony, sorry for the delay in getting to this one.

I remember the short you wrote which was really entertaining and a good laugh so I hope this will be just as good if not better now you have written it full length.
The following are mainly just observations I thought I would jot down as I read.

First ten pages are solid, a couple of nice one liners. Good work with describing the village and the residents. All flows very well and fast.
13: A moment, the door bursts open. Mozza stares at the decor.
I think you missed a word here - later - but I get the scene and it's pretty funny that he comes in, goes out then comes back in for a second look at the flower decorated room. * Quite a few of these happen.
14: Susan gets the meat cleaver but then you say an axe is removed?
The red fingernail in the pie - ugh.
All three lads have character - I can defiantly see a Danny Dyer in Mozza here! Dialogue is really funny,  and I think you have captured that British humour really well.
27: Am wondering what the bag was that Russ has in his teeth? Tobacco bag? Dope? I take it he's rolling a joint?
29: The continuous knitting scenes are quite quirky and amusing.
36:The bedroom scene with Gaz and Kelly was written well and the following one in the shed with Mozza was another laugh out loud moment or two.
42: Surprised to see Colin back on the scene! Thought the scene with him and Jason was another funny moment.
48: I take it this body is Doris!
53: Well written stuff here. Seems a lot more serious in tone.

Beautiful hills of bright yellow rapeseed and lush green
grass conjure the image of a patchwork quilt.

You do definitely have a great way of describing places really easily. I really like some of your descriptions throughout. I'd say this and your dialogue are the strongest points.

57: lol. Colin's luck seems to have finally run out. I was wondering what could go wrong with the coach!

Really enjoyed the following scenes with the aftermath of the coach and Mozz and Gaz dealing with Jason. I'd say the best bit of the script so far, very funny and entertaining!
81: Scene heading should be the kitchen and not the Butchers?

The final "fight" scene at the end was great stuff, funny and gory. I see you kept the ending of the short and used it in this one too, which still works really well.

This is a really funny script and it made me laugh quite a lot so is it is really difficult to find anything negative about something that makes me smile.
The only real problem here was you did have quite a few mismatches,  where you have forgot to put in an additional word in the sentences or dialogue. I was able to see what word was missing but it does happen quite frequently.

The story is good and simple. Three guys on a weekend away end up staying in a village where the locals eat the visitors. It works well mostly because of the excellent dialogue and the way you write. Short, informative and perfectly written descriptions that made it easy for me to "see". It takes me about an entire paragraph to write what you sum up in one sentence. Which made it also a very quick read.

At 87 pages, I think that is a good count to end up on but some might say you need it to be a bit longer. I'm trying to think of something that might be helpful in a future rewrite, but I can already see this being made into a movie because I think if you compare this up against The Cottage, there is not too much of a difference. Both have a simple story and what really carries them along are the characters and humour. I'm not sure if you really need to thicken the plot or add in an extra few kill scenes for the sake of it. It kinda just works as it is for me. I don't know if you have any plans on adding to this but I would be interested to see what they are.

Mozza and Gaz definitely were the star characters for me. Both had different characters and were both funny in different ways. I liked the way they interacted with each other, just the simple things, and the dialogue was always on the spot. Like I've said, I think this is a major factor in why I enjoyed this so much.
I think my only regret is that I remembered the short story so I kinda knew where you were going with it.

I'm sorry for the short review but I'm finding it difficult to find many problems other than the spelling hiccups!

I'd say you have written a really entertaining horror/comedy.

All the best,
Posted by: alffy, September 18th, 2009, 10:48am; Reply: 10
Hey Malcolm

Cheers for the read mate, glad you enjoyed it.


Quoted from Scoob
I can defiantly see a Danny Dyer in Mozza here!


I'm glad, cos this is who I had in my mind when I wrote Mozza's character lol.

Sorry I missed the spelling and grammer, but thanks for pointing out the slug error, that's because I changed the whole Butchers to the Kitchen afterwards.  Also sorry about the ending, it noe being a surprise, but I liked the original so I wanted to keep as much of it as possible.


Quoted from Scoob
It takes me about an entire paragraph to write what you sum up in one sentence. Which made it also a very quick read.


Yeah but it takes me about an hour to write one sentence, and I'm not joking! lol

I wonder if you've read over Brian's thoughts from the post above, I'd be interested if you had any similar feelings about my characters being a little weak?  This is something I'm gonna work on for the rewrite.

I'm glad you enjoyed it though and more importantly found it funny as this was my main goal, making a horror but keeping the comedy throughout the story.

Cheers again Malc.
Posted by: Scoob, September 19th, 2009, 8:51pm; Reply: 11
Hi Anthony,

I've read Brian's comments and I can see where he is coming from. He has made some good points there about the characters.
I just didnt really expect too much character development because it might have swerved from being the comedy horror it is, to a deeper story which would have made it hard to then keep the humour up. I think you did a good job with the mix because if you went too serious, you could create a problem with blending the humour.
As it is now, I think it's well balanced so that you cant really take anything too seriously and the characters late revelations or choices (Kelly) can be taken with a pinch of salt.
I dont know if that makes much sense either!

If you are looking to tighten things up, then I would agree with Brian in that you would need to maybe work more on Kelly and why she has a sudden change of heart and the mother storyline could be hinted at earlier on.  Likewise with the guys, they mention cooking earlier on but I dont think they mention it much more after that. Maybe they are not just on a weekend break and are looking to research local cuisine in parts of the country where they might find some inspiration. Mozza might still have wanted to go abroad and try the foriegn range but they ended up going with Gaz's idea of up north to save money. I dunno, just maybe something to push that they are actually chefs themselves, or atleast in training to be.

Mozza and Gaz were the leads, I felt, so I didnt really mind the other characters parts being small because they were just minor characters that turned up when needed.

The antagonists worked for me because, again , I just felt this wasnt the kind of film that would be going in deep on backstory or wanted to take itself too seriously.

Hope that makes sense!




Posted by: Brian M, September 19th, 2009, 9:56pm; Reply: 12
I've just read over my comments again and I think I've came across like I hated this, which is 100% not true. A lot of this worked for me, I just had a few problems with the characters, especially Kelly.

Despite me being British, any kind of British horror/comedy rarley appeals to me. I thought "The Cottage" was average, I feel asleep through "Lesbian Vampire Killers" and I turned off "Shaun of the Dead" halfway through. Call me crazy. This script made me laugh more than those films. Don't get me wrong, some Brit films are great, I loved "Hot Fuzz" and "Eden Lake" but the horror/comedy ones have never really grabbed me and I don't know why. Maybe that's why I was 50/50 on this when I first read it.

I'm not trying to say every character should have an in-depth backstory, just a little work here and there. Kelly was the major problem, her relationship with Gav and how she changes her mind so quickly without ever having a real conversation with him, how the revelation with her mother comes out of the blue at the end. The rest, like the Butcher, just a little work.

As a horror/comedy, every character doesn't need a dramatic backstory. If they did, it wouldn't work. This shouldn't be taken seriously but the point I was getting at, if the character does have a backstory, like Kelly about her mother, hint at it earlier so it doesn't come out of the blue at the end. I will stress again, this is a good script, funnier than most Brit horror/comedies I've seen, even though it didn't come across as such in my first post.

Hope that clears things up a bit!
Posted by: alffy, September 20th, 2009, 11:57am; Reply: 13
Malcolm,

cheers for your thoughts again, and I too think that in a comedy as this is, the characters backgrounds are not really that important.  I guess the whole Kelly turning good is the biggest issue I have here and is now top of my list for the rewrite.

Brian,

thanks for checking back and adding more thoughts.  Not been a fan of British horror comedy, I'm just glad you didn't hate this lol.  As for your previous comments, whether they came across as all negative or not it's the honesty that's appreciated.  I think that's what all reviews should be about, good or bad, everything helps.

Cheers again guys.
Posted by: Niles_Crane (Guest), September 20th, 2009, 3:38pm; Reply: 14
Just wanted to say, alffy, that I am determined to read and comment on your script, as you have been kind enough to read mine, but I keep getting waylaid!

I am now giving as much indepth feedback as I can on projects, and it is taking me forever! I just posted some comments on Jackx's "Hard Case" (having PM'd him and promised I would when it went up on SS). It's 38 pages and it took me over two hours to read and review!

However, some time this week I will read "Pub Lunch" and post some thoughts - I wanted to let you know that I haven't forgotten I owe you!
Posted by: abelorfao, September 24th, 2009, 5:39pm; Reply: 15
Hello, alffy, I've just read your script and I'll post my thoughts below.

I thought the story was quite fun and a fairly good blend between horror and comedy. The plot reminded me of "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2", only your screenplay succeeds where that film failed. Your descriptions were crisp and to the point, and the script as a whole was a breeze to read. Still, there are a few things you may want to consider in your next draft.

In my opinion, I think you missed a great opportunity for a slow build which would lead to a "Soylent Green" moment. Instead, the audience learns every detail of the plot by Page 18. Even worse, we learn of the plan well before the main characters do which means we have to wait for them to catch up. You may want to consider parceling out the information so the audience is just as surprised as Gav, Russ, and Mozza.

The comedy was well-written and humorous throughout, which is why I was thrown for a loop by the way Mozza killed Jason. I know Jason's not a sympathetic character, but it was rather disconcerting to see Mozza kill a defenseless and unresisting man in such a cold fashion. It was hard for me to find any of his comments amusing after this. You may want to tweak this scene so Mozza's actions are more defensible.

There are also plenty of other areas which could be mined for more laughs. For example, I could see the butcher opining of the quality of the meat pies in relation to the age, size, and diet of the victims. Would Derek be too fatty for those on a diet? Would the frail spinster be too gamy? You could also ratchet up the physical comedy when Jason chases after Colin as well as during the two major fight scenes.

I'll echo 1987brian's comments and say you need to keep an eye on your grammar, especially your use (or lack thereof) of commas and question marks. Here are the notes I made as I went through your script.

Page 1 to 3: You may want to include a brief exchange where Colin frets to Susan they are on the wrong road, as this would give you a change to introduce the audience to Colin along with the others in the coach.

Page 2: The phrase "two weeks in the Costa's" should be "two weeks in the Costas." Mozza's North Shore Moors comment should end with a question mark.

Page 3: Susan's second line should end with a question mark or interrobang (?!).

Page 4: Mozza's line and the first sentence of Russ's first line should end with question marks.

Page 10: I believe the phrase "not get anywhere" should be "not getting anywhere." Gav's line should end with a question mark or interrobang.

Page 11: Jess's line and the first sentence in Susan's first line should end with question marks.

Page 12: Russ's exclamation in his second line should end with an interrobang.

Page 13: The phrase "cross eyed" should be "cross-eyed." I believe the phrase "need some fresh" should be "need some fresh meat." The phrase "Walkie Talkie" should be "walkie-talkie."

Page 14: I would add a question mark at the end of Susan's third line and replace the question marks in Susan's last line with periods.

Page 18: Although there's no way for him to know its true origins, I was surprised Gav didn't complain to the management about the fingernail in his meat pie.

Page 21: Kelly's first line should end with a question mark.

Page 22: The phrase "love birds" should be "lovebirds." Mozza's first line should end with a question mark.

Page 23: I believe the phrase "you're go into town" should be "you're going into town." Mozza's first line and Gav's second line should end with question marks.

Page 25: The phrase "stone age" should be "Stone Age."

Page 28: Russ's second line should end with a period.

Page 38: The phrase "he freezes in the darkness" would work better as its own sentence.

Page 43: This may be my unfamiliarity with life on the other side of the pond, but I found it odd there doesn't seem to be any law enforcement in the village. Even if they were in on the plan, I'd think there would be at least one officer on duty Colin could talk to.

Page 48: The phrase "half naked" should be "half-naked."

Page 51 to 53: The phrase "Walkie Talkie" should be "walkie-talkie."

Page 54: I know he's not exactly Parent of the Year, but we haven't been given a reason to understand why Jess would speak so bluntly to Kelly as he does here.

Page 55: Kelly's line should end with a question mark.

Page 56: The phrase "no where" should be "nowhere."

Page 57: The phrase "Walkie Talkie" should be "walkie-talkie." The phrase "Half way" should be "Halfway."

Page 58: The phrase "coaches underbelly" should be "coach's underbelly." Gav's first line should end with a question mark.

Page 59: The phrase "the smashes front windscreen" should be "the smashed front windscreen."

Page 60: The phrase "into the Rape Seed" should be "into the rapeseed."

Page 62: The second word in Mozza's first line should not be capitalized.

Page 64: Gav's first line should end with a question mark. The phrase "wide eyed" should be "wide-eyed."

Page 65: Gav's forth line should end with a question mark.

Page 66: The phrase "Walkie Talkie" should be "walkie-talkie."

Page 68: The phrase "Right lets get Russ" should be "Right, let's get Russ."

Page 69: The phrase "over weight" should be "overweight."

Page 70: The phrase "Jerry can" should be "jerry can." Gav's last line should end with a question mark.

Page 71: Mozza's first line should end with a question mark. The phrase "a large clever" should be "a large cleaver."

Page 72: The phrase "nail less finder" should be "nailless finger."

Page 73: The phrase "all but naked body" should be "all-but-naked body."

Page 75: Gav's first line should end with a question mark.

Page 76: Mozza's exclamation after Gav's friendly greeting to Kelly should end with an interrobang.

Page 79: The phrase "blood wet floor" should be "blood-wet floor." The word "dad" in Kelly's dialogue should be "Dad."

Page 80: The phrase "light headed" should be "light-headed." The phrase "arms length" should be "arm's length." Jess's line should end with a question mark.

Page 81: The phrase "pale looking" should be "pale-looking."

Page 82: The phrase "finger nails" should be "fingernails." The phrase "blood soaked floor" should be "blood-soaked floor."

Page 83: The phrase "finger less hand" should be "fingerless hand." The word "dad" in Kelly's dialogue should be "Dad." Gav's first line should end with a question mark.

Page 85: The phrase "blood soaked apron" should be "blood-soaked apron."

I hope this response helps you, alffy, and good luck with your script.
Posted by: alffy, September 25th, 2009, 11:07am; Reply: 16
Hey Abel

Thanks for the read mate.  I guess the major thing I've learned from the reviews I've recieved so far is 'you need to add a question mark' lol.  Actually although you're right on most of your calls, there are a few instances where the dialogue reads like a question but it doesn't call for an answer, therefore it's more of a statement and a question mark is redundant.

Thanks for pointing out the mistakes, I'll be sure to correct these.  Also I think you suggested a few things that I don't understand, maybe they're Americanisms?  What's a 'interrobang'?


Quoted from abelorfao
I thought the story was quite fun and a fairly good blend between horror and comedy. The plot reminded me of "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2", only your screenplay succeeds where that film failed.


Glad you enjoyed it but I've never seen TCM 2 so I can't comment on that.


Quoted from abelorfao
You may want to tweak this scene so Mozza's actions are more defensible.


This never occured to me before but you've got a point, thanks for pointing it out.

I'll aim to keep the audience in the dark until the lads discover the truth in the rewrite.


Quoted from abelorfao
Although there's no way for him to know its true origins, I was surprised Gav didn't complain to the management about the fingernail in his meat pie.


This is a British thing or definately a northern thing, we never complain about anything, we don't like to make a fuss.


Quoted from abelorfao
I thought the story was quite fun and a fairly good blend between horror and comedy.


Well I seem to have got the blend right between horror and comedy.

Thanks for the read mate and I should have my review of Midnight Lake up by tomorrow night.
Posted by: alffy, September 25th, 2009, 11:31am; Reply: 17
I forgot to answer a question of yours Abel.  

I lived in small village but bigger than my fictional setting and we never had a police station, infact there was one station that covered the neighbouring villages.  That's one station for about a ten mile radious.
Posted by: abelorfao, September 25th, 2009, 2:02pm; Reply: 18
Hello again, alffy. I'll just add a few quick comments on your last posts.

I suppose our differences on what should and shouldn't be phrased as a question as well as whether the police should be a greater presence come from a cultural perspective. Since you're the one from England, I'll happily defer to your judgment.

An interrobang is a question mark followed by an exclamation point and is used when someone shouts out a question, like this: "You told my wife about the affair?! What were you thinking?!"

Finally, the TCM 2 remark comes from a subplot in that film where Leatherface's father becomes the Texas-Okalahoma Chili Contest champion thanks to his secret recipe. Don't worry about not having seen the film. Trust me, it's not worth the pain.
Posted by: alffy, September 25th, 2009, 2:21pm; Reply: 19

Quoted from abelorfao
An interrobang is a question mark followed by an exclamation point and is used when someone shouts out a question, like this: "You told my wife about the affair?! What were you thinking?!"


I'd already checked this out, you learn something everyday lol.  I've never heard it called that before.

I'll stay clear of TCM 2 then lol.
Posted by: alffy, September 30th, 2009, 11:01am; Reply: 20
Hopefully all the spelling mistakes are now sorted in this update.
Posted by: Niles_Crane (Guest), October 4th, 2009, 6:32am; Reply: 21
Hi Alffy

Finally got here. It would be pointless to give you a detailed review as I'd just be going over the ground so well overed by others above.

But I must say that I did like this and it had a lot to recommend it. As has been noted, it fits into a strain of British Comedy Horror that is very big at the moment (but has always been present - we like to treat our Horror with a good deal of tongue in cheek). I have not seen "The Cottage" that Brian mentioned (is that the one with that girl from "Brookside"?) but it does certainly fit alongside films such as "Severence".

I was thinking that this would be a perfect calling card project - this is the film that can get made in the UK, especially given the opportunities for the leads to be filled by comedy actors (Horne and Corden would have been better of in something like this than the abysmal "Lesbian Vampire Killers"!).

Have you submitted it to anyone? Not just production companies (always a problem I know, as they tend not to read stuff on spec), but Agents (if you haven't got one) - I really think, even though it does need a bit of work here and there, that this would attract a lot of attention.
Posted by: alffy, October 4th, 2009, 3:43pm; Reply: 22
Niles, cheers for the positive comments.

I have thought about sending this out but really I'm not sure who or where to send it, also whether sending a treatment would be better?  Any ideas?

I think I want to get a few more comments to help with a rewite before I do anything further too.

Thanks again for the comments.
Posted by: James McClung, October 5th, 2009, 2:10pm; Reply: 23
Hey Anthony. For fear of repeating myself, I'm going to keep this review a little more brief than usual. I think you're already aware of my feelings about the short. Anyway, if I hadn't read the short, I would have assumed you wrote the feature from scratch. It seems you've made all the right choices in adapting the short into a longer piece. The "lads" are about the same as I remember except you've added a slight romantic interest for Gav. Mozza's also got a brief although unfortunately botched romantic encounter. It does do a little in setting the characters apart but they're still relatively simple characters. That's okay. I think simplicity works for the sake of the comedy. I do like what you've done with the family unit. This, I think was the biggest improvement from the short. All the sisters are different. You could've easily made them all killers. I also like the backstory about the mother. Not sure this was even necessary, although it does help Kelly's character arc.

The extra stuff (stealing the bus, the field romp) works well enough I suppose. It's a little slower than I expected, just given the gross nature of the short. It's all pretty suspenseful though and adds new flavor to the story. It does seem like you've saved most of the gross stuff for the end though. That's okay, I suppose. I did like the scene with Jason getting whacked. More funny than gross but the dialogue was hysterical, if only because of how natural it seemed for these particular characters. I wouldn't try to beef up the gore. I think that might work against you. Although perhaps the scene with Mozza and Laura could've run a little longer. A scythe seems like a poor weapon to waste.

Anyway, I liked it. I was surprised at how, aside from the humor, you were able to write two different versions of the same story. The short was a lot more speedy and punchier while the feature had more of a drawn out sense of impending doom. Not sure which one I like better. The short's a lot easier to swallow but I always appreciate the slow burn approach in horror movies. Anyway, I think you did a very good, rather seamless job making the jump from short to feature. Bravo.
Posted by: alffy, October 6th, 2009, 3:36am; Reply: 24
Thanks James, glad you didn't dislike this having really enjoyed the short lol

I also think the Mozza and Laura romantic scene could be beefed a little.

I had a few reservations about the feedback from people who had read the short and then read the feature, the slower pace was definately top of my list.  I don't think I could have kept up the relentless pace of the short for almost 90 pages.  I wanted the characters to be more individual and of course this takes a bit of time.

Anywho, glad you enjoyed it and thanks again for the comments.
Posted by: SteveUK, October 21st, 2009, 5:56pm; Reply: 25
Hi alffy,

I've been meaning to read this since it was uploaded & I've finally gotten round to it - better late than never!

I really enjoyed this, and found it to be a good mix of humour and gore. It kinda reminded me of a cross between Shaun of the Dead & Hot Fuzz, which is no bad thing.

I've made some notes with suggestions, spelling corrections etc, but I may just be repeating things that other people have said, so I didn't want to take up space by listing them here.

When I get the chance to type them up I'll send them over in a PM - I'll try to get it done before the weekend.
Posted by: alffy, October 23rd, 2009, 12:23pm; Reply: 26
Hey Steve, cheers for the read mate and I'm glad you enjoyed it.  Yeah, no worries just pm the corrections when you get chance, cheers for that.  Also, Simon Pegg is a legend so thanks for the comparison, although I know it's not in talent lol.  Thanks again.
Posted by: alffy, December 2nd, 2009, 3:47pm; Reply: 27
New draft is up.  Just a few minor changes that hopefully clear up a few things.
Posted by: Scoob, December 8th, 2009, 10:26pm; Reply: 28
Hi Anthony,

Really enjoyed reading this one again and even though I thoroughly enjoyed the previous draft, this is definitely improved and better overall. It's still really funny, some great lines in here and situations. You definitely gave Kelly more character here and it pays off, whereas before I guess her sudden turnaround was a bit sudden, here it feels just about right. The same goes for Laura and Jess, I think you have a good balance here now.

Good idea to introduce the guys showing them in the kitchen in the first page.
9. Kelly with Gav seems a lot colder at first which is a good thing. And a good idea to introduce the father daughter relationship and the mother story early on here.
I like how you built up Gav and Kelly's relationship.

I only found a couple of typos : 20: Gav's first line at top of page misses a word. 30 - Mozza "phone or somet" 54 - Gav "Somet" 60 - Gav missed word, 74 - Mozza missed word,

lol Mozza " couldn't the cow run?".
31 - I like how you have got the lads to stay at the pub, Laura and Kelly definitely play bigger roles here.
41 - The scene with Mozza and Laura I thought was good in the original version but this is hilarious! Great job.
48 - The guys seem to have figured out the intentions earlier if I remember rightly and I think this is another good choice.
51 - The two old women talking about bingo made me laugh. Loved the way you used it at the end.
The final showdown in the kitchen was great, bloody and funny as hell!

Great job!
Posted by: alffy, December 9th, 2009, 4:32pm; Reply: 29
Hey Malcolm, cheers for the re-read.

I'm glad you thought I'd improved it.  

I thought the lads being in the first montage would at least show them as chefs.  A few people made a good comment that they weren't sure what the lads were doing at college, I think this should now clear it up.

I tried to add more to Kelly and Laura, as they were a little thin in the first draft.  Gav and Kelly's relationship didn't work brilliantly in draft one but hopefully it's improved and become, at least, a bit more believable?

As for the Laura and Mozza 'love' scene, yeah I extended this a tad to try and build a bit more suspense and also cos I thought it was funny lol.

Bingo = funny! lol.

Is the update of 'Graveyard' up yet.  I'm going to check it...honest.  Let me know if it's up or when it goes up and i'll check it out.

Thanks again for the comments and glad you enjoyed it again.
Posted by: Scoob, December 17th, 2009, 11:45am; Reply: 30
As you know, I really liked the previous draft anyway so then to read the latest and find it an improvement and even funnier was surprising because I wasnt sure what more you could do. Much credit to you for that!

Gav and Kelly's relationship worked a lot better this time round, felt more believable and you did put a lot more into both Kelly and Laura. I think before, they were pretty much the same as each other so Kelly's turnaround at the end - to go with her backstory - came out of the blue. Now Kelly's background is part of the main story and makes the ending much more natural.




Posted by: alffy, December 21st, 2009, 9:47am; Reply: 31

Quoted from Scoob
I really liked the previous draft anyway so then to read the latest and find it an improvement and even funnier was surprising because I wasnt sure what more you could do. Much credit to you for that!


Cheers Malcolm, much appreciated.
Posted by: ajr, January 28th, 2010, 12:58pm; Reply: 32
Alffy,

So I banged in well from work today and I decided to pay back the long overdue read.  I'm only on page 5, but I wanted to post my thoughts now so I can then concentrate on the story, and so my review wont be too long:

Is the first series of shots really a montage? I think we can just do with the descriptions.

Your narratives on the first page could be tighter. I assume Gav, Russ and Mozza are wearing chef's hats in the opening scene, which is why you further describe their appearances (their hair) on the bus. Make this clearer, perhaps?

Also, on the bus, you give us a shot of the three, and then proceed to describe each of them, and then tell us they each have a row to themselves. When I read this, I imagine each line as a different shot, so to me it seems you can do this a bit tighter in perhaps two three-line narratives?

Also, I'd prefer to know more about each lad in the first scene. As it stands, you have them doing their work, so essentially you've introduced three chefs to us; one stocky, one thin, and one overweight.  Nothing hints at their personalities, so we must learn what differentiates them from their dialogue on the bus.

For example, Mozza reads the porn mag on the bus - if it's the intention to make him the perv of the group, why not give a shot of him looking up from tenderizing the meat at a comely chef's assistant?  Maybe he's distracted and hits his finger?  Things like that will automatically set up your characters and staple them into the minds of the reader, instead of us having to read dialogue like "guy 1, guy 2, guy 3" and learning from them as we go.

For an example of what I mean by diffferent shots in the narrative, here are your descriptions from page five, which IMO you did perfectly:

"A number of benches with covering parasols and a large garden heater stands in the centre.

Local VILLAGERS emerge from their dwellings and eye up the tourists.

The pensioners enter the pub, followed by Colin and Susan.

The three lads step down from the coach.

JESS, forties, stands in the beer garden. He�s overweight and his beard hides his features.

TWO LOCALS exit the pub mumbling to each other, and stand beside him.

The three local men look the lads up and down as they pass. They nudge each other and smile.

Mozza stares back with a cheeky smile."

Perfect, because each line is its own shot - extremely well-written. Be back later when I finish.

AJR
Posted by: ajr, January 28th, 2010, 6:30pm; Reply: 33
Anthony,

I have to say I liked this - a lot.  And horror is not my thing.  Not to say there aren't concerns with it, so let me first address what I think you did very well.

SPOILERS, I guess, FROM HERE ON OUT:

I think Brian mentioned earlier that the predictability factor was high (from the first draft, perhaps?). This was not a problem for me. In fact, I applaud you for going this way. I was sincerely hoping that you were not just going to race the audience along just for a twist ending. I think there was enough tension in how gradually the boys found out, what they decide to do to escape, and what they ultimately decide to do (go back) and what happens when they get there.

I enjoyed what you did to end the second act as well. The bus, and the keys - all seemed believable to me. Of course these guys would find out something was up, and when they did, they'd want to leave right? Wouldn't you?

The bus hitting Colin was also a good plot twist. And I didn't question at all the decision to go back for Russ.  It was built into Mozza's character that he would suggest this (good job developing him).

The blood and gore ending turned comedic in spots, which I liked, and although it can be confusing to read, I'm sure it would lay out very entertainingly on film.

For my concerns:

If you’re going to leave Colin alive after his wife's accident, I think he needs to be more frantic than he is. Too much time has passed since his wife went missing and he’d likely be sounding alarm bells to all the other guests.

“So...I gather we won’t be using the, missing while pot holing story then.” I didn’t understand this line?  And if it’s supposed to be the reason for how the operation stays in business, it should be more clear.

Others have mentioned that Kelly falling for Gav is not believable, and I assume most of them read the first draft. In the second draft I still agree with them, to a point.

I do think it's very fixable though, and it goes back to what I said in my post above, which is that you need to spend more time developing these guys than just a montage cooking shot. I think we actually need dialogue and a scene or two before we see them go on holiday.

More importantly, Gav needs to be set up as the sensitive one, since it is this trait that causes Kelly to fall for him, and ultimately saves the three.  If you decide to add scenes before they embark, show him doing something overly nice for someone. Juxtapose his behavior against Mozza's, who's obviously the braggart and the would-be stud. (Oh, and fix up Russ a bit, because outside of the smoking he doesn't have many distinguishable characteristics.)

My only other real concern with this is the overall believability factor – in other words, that this “village operation” has gone undiscovered for who knows how long (police protection doesn't seem enough). And I think it stems from you making this a coach trip.  After all, these things are logged, and there would be a record of everyone who was on the trip.

I saw someone earlier suggest that your reasoning may be to have the police record it as a bus fire, and if that's how they stay in business with the operation, it strains at credulity for me.

I think the village needs to be more remote, and the guys should be driving, and maybe they don’t even know they’re stopping there until they happen upon it (this is how college guys travel, no?).

To lend more believability to it, you should have Jess in some way point out that the only potential victims are ones that won’t be missed. For example, Colin and his wife can be chatted up, and it can be found out that they have no children, they’ve retired early, etc.

Anyways, these are multiple paragraphs on one or two points that I think can be easily remedied.  I think you have a very saleable, commercial idea here, and if you can iron out these rough spots I can see you going out and querying this really soon.

Nice job on this and best of luck with it - AJR

Posted by: Grandma Bear, January 28th, 2010, 7:18pm; Reply: 34
Hey Alffy,

I see this is the feature version of Meat Pies. Did I read that one? I don't remember, but it sounds familiar. I read a lot though. I often get scripts mixed up.

I thought this one was okay. Not bad by any means, but didn't really hit a homerun with me either.  Here's my take on your script.

If I were you, I would have started a little more to the point in the beginning in order to set the tone right. Instead of busy workers in a kitchen, maybe have a slab of meat plunked down on a counter and then a meat cleaver slice into it and then continue with the rest of the kitchen scene. IMHO, the first imagery is very important to get an audience prepped right. I also would have liked to see the three guys introduced then and there. Not just by name and a visual, but have them interact with each other a little bit so it becomes clear that these are our main characters.

Like someone else  mentioned, Colin and Susan should definitely not be introduced first. It gives the impression it's their story which is incorrect. This is Gav, Russ and Mozza's "trip".  I wasn't really bothered by your descriptions of the characters. However, character's looks and what they wear usually say a little bit about their personality and that is then backed up by their actions and dialogue. The characters in your story are all pretty bland. Except for the guy with the beer gut hanging over his waistband and also the old lady who knits like a mad woman. You don't spend a lot of time with them, but they still stand out due to either looks or their actions. They are minor characters and should definitely not be more memorable than the main characters. Although it was good to show the guys in their chefs outfits. Tells us right away what their occupation is.

Of the main characters, I liked Gavin the most. Not sure why, but maybe because I felt for him a little more than the others. Probably due to him being fat and not having a lot of women after him, he's weakness is when Kelly shows interest in him. That storyline actually worked quite well. I didn't really believe Kelly being genuine with him, but the way you wrote him and the way it affected him totally worked. Susan and Colin were sort of strange. You describe them as a middle aged couple that are completely opposite of each other. I had a hard time believing their relationship. Why would someone like Susan even be interested in someone like him? They also didn't act like a married couple. They barely came across as friends.

The beginning is more like a series of shots IMHO, but as I mentioned earlier, I think that whole beginning should be rewritten as one scene with them interacting. It should be done in such a way that it leads better into the following scene. Right now it's a little weird the way we go from a montage to inside a bus.

They sure drank a lot in this script!  ;D

Once we get to the Abberston Arms and they order their food, I felt like I knew exactly how this one would play out. Maybe because it was so obvious with that other couple gulping up their meat pies at the next table. I would have liked to still be a little clueless about the "meat" at this point.

I didn't get why Laura missed Mozza with the scythe. I thought it was on purpose…

I had a little bit of a problem with the amounts of meat these people get. Quite a lot of meat on all these bodies. Enough to feed more than this little village I would think. I was also wondering why they would kill these old people? Old animals don't even become people food. They become animal feed. Even if these people are cannibals, shouldn't they at least care a little bit about the quality of the meat?

I wanted to know why all these people in this village have turned into to cannibals and how it all started.  

I also wanted to know why  Jess had killed his wife.

page 23. Jess says "evening Kelly" should be Laura.

page 42 and 55. in one of the slugs you call it a bear garden.

I would have thought they'd be a little more upset about Russ dying. I know he didn't really die, but they thought he did so they should definitely show some more compassion there.

I know this is a horror/comedy and those are a little bit different than straight horror, but I still missed suspense. I noticed several of the others mention how the suspense was great. Maybe I didn't read it correctly, but I honestly didn't see or feel it.

So anyway, I think your script has potential, but is not complete yet. Increase the suspense, work on the characters some more, delay us knowing what the meat pies are made of and you would have a big improvement.

Good job Alffy and good luck with it.  :)

Feel free to sake anything if I was unclear.  












Posted by: alffy, January 30th, 2010, 12:22pm; Reply: 35
Anthony thanks for the read and your pointers.

I changed the montage at the beginning to include the lads but I guess what you said about an earlier scene before the coach makes sense.

As for the credibility of the villagers, I toyed with this pickle for a while.  I was going to have the coach diverted to Abberston by the local police and then later they cover up the crash.  I think I need to work on this a little?

I'm glad you enjoyed and it kept you entertained.  I'd really like to see what I can do with this script, after the little issues are sorted, but I'm not sure where to start?

Cheers again for the read.
Posted by: alffy, January 30th, 2010, 12:34pm; Reply: 36
Pia, thanks for the read, sorry it didn't hit the mark for you.

You make some good points.  Susan and Colin's mismatch was intentional but if you think it doesn't work, I'll work on it.

Laura missed Mozza with the scythe because he fidgeted and slipped off his seat.

I purposely didn't explain anything about why the villagers eat people as I thought it wasn't really needed for this kind of script.  I was thinking of making the old people not fit for eating but I wanted it to be like, they are easy to knock off and the villagers aren't fussy about a bit of gristle lol.

I was quite happy with this draft but thanks to yours and Anthony's comments I might go back and re-work it again.  I really want to make this as good as I can.

thanks for the read Pia.
Posted by: ajr, January 30th, 2010, 12:57pm; Reply: 37
Anthony,

Don't despair about not knowing where to start, because I think you're close. How about at the beginning?  (o:

I'd like to see the three develop their personalities a bit during the cooking montage, and then perhaps at dinner that night?  Or in their dorm rooms?

Then the coach scene is not all that necessary. If you want to keep in the "Mozza is a perv with the magazine" bit, why not have them take a bus to a rental car place?

Then you have the guys on the road - they don't know where they're going. Or maybe they do, and they need to stop over once before they get there. Hence they happen upon Abberston Arms...

Now you've solved a credibility problem, because we won't focus too much on how the other guests get there. You do have Derek, the driver, and the tour guide, to deal with though. I'll have to think about that one (and it's weird that the tour guide's in on it and the driver isn't?).

Maybe the tour guide runs a local siteseeing business in the area? And of course he just had to hire a new driver because, well, the last one was tasty... (o:

To summarize, I would do three things:

- Get the boys established earlier in the script - perhaps spend as much as 3-5 pages on them before they embark;

- Set up Gav as the sensitive one;

- Deal with the village's "proclivity" - make it more remote, have it be happenstance that people stop there, etc.

After that I think you have a winner, because this is a just oddly enough, left-of-center horror flick, IMO.

AJR
Posted by: Grandma Bear, January 30th, 2010, 2:45pm; Reply: 38

Quoted from alffy
sorry it didn't hit the mark for you.

There's nothing to be sorry about. It wasn't bad at all. Just needs some tweaking.


Quoted from alffy
You make some good points.  Susan and Colin's mismatch was intentional but if you think it doesn't work, I'll work on it.

I had a feeling you did that on purpose. I was picturing this as a film while I read it and I kept thinking. Why would she be with someone like that. I don't know. Maybe guys like to think that good looking, well dressed women that come across as someone with a little bit of class will happily have a slob looking guy as a husband. It's not usually how it works IMHO of course. They're middle aged married couple, but look look like they come from two different social classes.


Quoted from alffy
Laura missed Mozza with the scythe because he fidgeted and slipped off his seat.

Okay, I must just have misunderstood that part.  :)


Quoted from alffy
I purposely didn't explain anything about why the villagers eat people as I thought it wasn't really needed for this kind of script.  I was thinking of making the old people not fit for eating but I wanted it to be like, they are easy to knock off and the villagers aren't fussy about a bit of gristle lol.

I was thinking that eating people is pretty bad, but eating old people is just gross!  ;D


Quoted from alffy
I was quite happy with this draft but thanks to yours and Anthony's comments I might go back and re-work it again.  I really want to make this as good as I can.

And you will. :)



Posted by: alffy, January 30th, 2010, 4:27pm; Reply: 39

Quoted from Grandma Bear
Maybe guys like to think that good looking, well dressed women that come across as someone with a little bit of class will happily have a slob looking guy as a husband. It's not usually how it works...


Worked for me. lol.
Posted by: Dreamscale, January 31st, 2010, 6:20pm; Reply: 40
Hey Alffy, got through this in about 3 sittings…would have liked that to be 1, but it didn’t happen.  I finished last night, but wanted to digest it, so to speak, to see if I felt any differently this morning.  It tastes pretty much as it did when I finished.  I took page by page notes as I read, which should help with some issues.  It will be attached as a separate thread, so you’re going to get a triple or quadruple post here.

I read through all the feedback and see this appears to be a 3rd draft now?  I remember reading the short version of this a long time ago.  Although as I read, things from the short definitely came back to me, I don’t think any surprises were ruined.  I agree with a lot that Brian, Abel, AJR, and Pia had to say, but I’m afraid they seemed to like it quite a bit more than I did.

Alffy, I‘m going to give it straight up to you here, and I’m pretty sure that’s what you’re after.  This may come across as harsh, but it’s definitely not my intent in any way.  I think my page by page notes will give you a lot of insight as to my feelings and certain issues that were prevalent throughout, but I also want to go into some detail on some other issues that I feel are at the heart of what I find wrong here.  Let’s go…

First of all, I have to say that I am not a fan of horror/comedy hybrids. Just my personal preference.  I’m also not a big comedy guy, period.  And finally, I’m not a fan of British humor.  My comments throughout will not let my personal tastes get in the way of my feelings for this, and what it is supposed to be.

I say this very, very often, both in script reviews as well as when I’m watching a movie.  The concept (plot) has to make sense, or the entire project is flawed.  The concept can be as simple or complex as the writer wants, but it has to make sense within the world created.  When I say “concept”, I think I’m actually meaning a little more than just the concept or plot.  I’m talking about the details of the concept as well…the whos, the whys, and the hows.  This is my # 1 issue with your script.

For the life of me, I can’t come up with a single valid reason why 3 college aged guys would take a coach (bus) tour to this Abberston Arms place.  There is literally nothing there.  No cell service, no phones, no way to get to whatever town they wanted to go to Friday night…nothing!  Wherever they lived, there had to be a lot more to see and do.  They planned this out, they paid good money for the weekend, and it just comes off as so stupid, I couldn’t get it out of my head, especially the longer the script went on, as they just sat around drinking, cause there wasn’t anything else to do.

On the same note, the coach tour itself made no sense.  Whether or not the operator of the tour was in on it, doesn’t matter.  Why would anyone take this tour for a weekend?  Why would 3 old ladies do this?  Why would there be only 8 people on the entire tour?  What did the gay tour operator do for the tour?  It just doesn’t make any sense.

If you had given this place some life, some reason that people would want to check it out, it would help a lot.  If you had given us some details about what exactly it was as well as where it was, it would have helped.  How far away from where they lived, is it?  What’s there?  What is it known for?  You know what I mean?

Abberston Arms itself was also a big issue for me.  I don’t think you did a good job describing it at all.  It came off as 1 or 2 buildings only…basically the pub/bar/restaurant, as well as the upstairs where the rooms were. What and where is the nearest town?  Where do all the villagers live?  What do they do?  It doesn’t seem like there’s literally anything they can do to make money, as there’s nothing there or around it.  I’m not talking about big back stories or anything like that.  Just some details to help with visuals and understanding.

The cannibal idea itself is cool…I have no issues with it.  I don’t even care how or why they’re all cannibals. It seems like all these locals just sit around the pub, eating human meat pies, and that in itself, again, doesn’t compute.  In this script, which covered less than 2 days, 4 people were killed and turned into meat pies. That’s a lot of meat pies!  Just think about this going on and on over time…even for a month!  We’re talking about 60 or so people needing to be killed every month.  How could they possibly get away with this?  They couldn’t, and it doesn’t matter if the police are involved, the entire village, the coach operator, etc.  It’s just way too grand a scale for a little place like this.

OK, some more details that don’t compute.  The meat pies themselves are described as having “large chunks of meat filling”.  Now I’m not a professional chef, but I am an avid cook (and eater!), and I can tell you that this doesn’t make sense, assuming that all this human meat is being fed through a grinder.  A grinder turns meat into “sausage”, basically.  No large chunks, no chunks at all, actually.  To make meat pies, the “meat” would need to be cut up, and simmered in some sort of liquid, thus cooking it, and making it tender enough to then put into dough, and thrown into an oven.  Picky?  Yeah, maybe, but it’s just another thing that didn’t make any sense to me.

OK, let’s get into the characters and actual writing. Many have already commented about the characters not being well developed, definable, etc.  I agree, first of all, but I don’t have that big a problem with it or them.  For some reason, you chose to “describe” your characters by basically telling us in detail what each was wearing, down to actual colors of shirts, etc.  IMO, it’s never a good idea to dress your characters, unless it comes into play in the story or plot.  It’s not your job as screenwriter to play set or wardrobe designer.  I consider all of these lines (and there were a lot, BTW) to be a complete waste.

There was a good deal of dialogue, but I never really got much out of anyone, as to characteristics, personality, etc.  I think you could have helped your cause greatly by having some (or most) of the dialogue exchanges involve things that would help us understand each character…where they were coming form, what they liked, didn’t like, wanted, etc.  Sure, there was some of this, but mostly the dialogue and exchanges didn’t do much for me at all, and in many cases, didn’t work or didn’t come off as realistic or believable.

For instance, we know from the logline that our “3 lads” were going to some sort of cooking school, and were basically, chefs in training.  You could have and should have included some conversations about this (especially early on!).  Without the log, I doubt most would even know what they did, or what they were all about.  All it takes is little clues and the like here and there.

All the antags came off as extremely cliché and bland.  No real personalities here at all.  I think you had lots of opportunities to write these baddies as “badder” baddies.  The Butcher, for instance…a big hulking brute, who didn’t do a whole Hell of a lot, and when it came down to it, was rather easily taken out.  Howard should have had some interesting back story or quirks…or personality.  Kelly probably had the most life to her, but she needs a lot more to make her a good character.  I know so little about Jess and Laura, and it’s a shame, cause there’s got to be lots about them that is interesting, intriguing, and unique.  I see that you said you didn’t want to go into great detail about the antags, and I do agree, but there’s got to be something, or things that make them stand out and come across as more than just bad cannibals.

OK, let’s look at the actual writing now. I’m sorry to say this…I really am, but I think the writing itself needs a lot of work.  I saw that some early reviews noted there were tons and tons of grammatical errors.  You said you cleaned it up and by the 3rd draft, I would figure it would be fairly clean. It isn’t.  I know grammar isn’t everyone’s strong point.  Once you learn and understand what the errors are, they should not be so prevalent.  Lots and lots of missing commas, as well as incorrectly used commas. Quite a few examples of really awkward phrasing.  Lots of missing words or sentences that just don’t make sense.
Posted by: Dreamscale, January 31st, 2010, 6:21pm; Reply: 41
Part 2

Of bigger concern though, is the “structure” of the writing, and what you actually chose to write.  Let me try and explain…

By structure of the writing, I’m talking about how you write your passages and sentences.  Maybe this is just my own opinion, but I really do not like when I read a script and see that the vast majority of the prose is 1 line or 1 sentence passages (paragraphs).  It sure adds “white” to the pages, and makes for a quick, simple read, but it also inflates the page count (run time) and limits how much info and detail you can get across.  I always say, never go over 4 lines in an action passage.  I also don’t like when the vast majority of the passages all run 4 lines.  But there should be a happy medium in there, that will make a script run the rule of thumb 1 page equals 1 minute of screen time.  I don’t believe this script falls into that category at all.

Now, with a dialogue heavy script, you’ll find that 1 line passages that break up dialogue is fine and normal.  It’s important to note though, that you shouldn’t be breaking up dialogue all the time, just to break it up with action prose that doesn’t say anything…or doesn’t need to be there.  This also artificially inflates a script even more.  Sure, you can’t and shouldn’t just have dialogue running back and forth, on and on, but you need to choose what you throw in between, wisely and have it be a visual that is either important, or something an audience wants to see, which leads me to…what you chose to actually write.

IMO, your script doesn’t have much “meat” to it.  It runs 93 pages, but would play out far shorter than this.  One reason for this is the style of your writing (1 line passages throughout).  But, a bigger reason is what you actually wrote.  There are pages and pages of stuff here that definitely does not need to be here for any reason at all.  It seemed to be on just about every single page. Your scenes don’t involve a lot of action (for the most part, until the end), yet they run on and on, based on wasted sentences.  So many lines about drinking, smoking, smiling, sighing, opening and shutting doors…just very mundane things (actions) that don’t need to be written.  Check out any 3 pages in a row, in your first 25 pages, and see how many of these “throwaway lines” there are.  By throwaway line, I mean a line that you wouldn’t miss at all if it wasn’t there.  Lines that add nothing to the finished product, and just don’t need to be there.
Add them up and multiply by 31 (3 X 31 = 93).  You also need to understand that each 1 of these throwaway lines will have a space on top and underneath it, meaning it’s not just 1 line it’s taking up.  Consider that there are about 55 lines per page, and see how many extra pages you’ve got (roughly).  I’m going to bet that you’ve got an extra 10-15 pages of stuff that has no purpose being here.  Adding this on to the fact that you’re writing in mostly 1 line passages, I’m going to bet that your 93 page script, is actually only around 70-75 pages of run time.  That’s not enough, IMO.

If you took out these throwaway lines, combined some of your action lines into longer passages, you’d be able to write an additional 15-25 pages of stuff.  Like characterization, like more detail, so we have a clearer picture of the world you’ve created.  Like more detailed action and reaction.  I truly believe this is merely a shell in its current form…a skeleton, so to speak.  There’s more story here, there’re better, more developed characters, there’s more detailed action that I think we’d all like to see.

So, Alffy, I know you don’t want to hear all this negativity.  I know the vast majority of reviews have been very positive.  I don’t want to be a dick or a downer, but this is truly how I feel, and I truly believe that you can turn this into a MUCH stronger script.  It needs a lot of work, IMO, but you’ve got the shell down, as well as some potentially interesting characters and plot points.  Flesh this stuff out.  Clean up the writing and grammar.  Give us more in places we need it, and less in those that do nothing.

I hope this is received in the vein I intend it, and I hope it helps with both this script and your writing in general.  Take care, bud.
Posted by: Dreamscale, January 31st, 2010, 6:21pm; Reply: 42
Page by page notes

Page 1 – You don’t want to actually label Page 1 (as page 1).  It is Page 1, but don’t start labeling until Page 2.  Your software should have the ability to do this.

Like others, I completely agree that starting off with a montage is not the right way to go.  I don’t think this is even a montage, actually.  Also, like others, I completely agree that you need to give a little life to your 3 main characters right off the bat.  It feels odd, going from the “montage” to the “coach”.  BTW, what is a coach?  A train?  A bus?  Maybe I’ll find out in the next few pages…

I also agree with whoever said that you should probably develop a relationship and characteristics of these 3 before they get on this coach.  Give a few pages and let us get to know these guys.  I’m doing a lot of agreeing with people, which is odd for me!

I’m not familiar with “pensioner” or “boiled sweets”.

“in to” – “into”

I don’t like how you dress each character and take several passages to do it.  I don’t think this is at all necessary or affective use of space.

Page 2 - “dirty magazine” – I’d just name what it is exactly.  It sounds kind of odd this way.

“walks down” – if she’s coming from the back, she probably actually “walks up”.

Page 4 – Comma between “drink” and “ladies”

Page 6 – Comma between “off” and “mate”

“One picture hangs pride of place behind the bar, it depicts Jess and the Butcher, younger in age, outside the pub.” – Awkwardly phrased.  Probably better as at least 2 sentences.

Page 7 – “Colin sips from a pint, he studies a tourist guide with interest.” – Another case of incorrect usage of a comma.  This is either 2 sentences, or needs different punctuation.  I’ve noticed a few of these now. I’ll stop bringing them up, but be wary of them throughout.

Page 8 – something’s wrong here.  Kelly approaches the boys at a table to take their order, then she suddenly is pouring the lagers.

“Gav” – “Gav’s”

Page 9 – “eye’s” – “eyes”

Comma after “tentatively”

Page 10 – Comma between “again” and “Russ” – You always want to use a comma when you’re using a name.  Use it in front of the name, so it sets it off.  Pretty much always the case.  I won’t continue bringing these up.

General note – I see that your action prose is basically made up of 1 line passages, or 1 sentence passages.  I personally don’t like this style, as it artificially inflates your page length.  I’m 12 pages in and basically nothing has happened at all.  Worse though, is that I have absolutely no clue why the 3 guys are on this weekend trip.  How far away is it from where they live?  Why are they here for an entire weekend at a tiny little place like this?  Why would a coach tour even go here?  Also, it sounds like there were only about 8 total passengers?  I don’t get it.

Colin and Susan’s dialogue sounds terrible!  Totally unrealistic, sorry to say.

Page 17 – Colin and Susan’s death scene was clunky and hard to follow.  I’d say it needs some attention, as this is the first real bit of action, so it’s important that it reads much better than this.

General note – You’ve shown your hand incredibly early here, IMO. Even before the deaths and the finger nail, it seemed pretty obvious where we were headed.  I don’t think that’s a good idea, IMO.

Page 31 – I’m not buying into any of this, sorry to say.  The dialogue isn’t working, the exchanges aren’t working, the actions of everyone just don’t make any sense.  Again, I’m wondering, what are these guys doing here?  There’s nothing here, no taxis, no nothing.  They obviously planned this trip, paid good money for it, and had to know where they were going.

Page 34 – “to” – “too”

Page 40 – How could Laura miss Mozz with that scythe?  It’s not worded well, as I sure can’t see how it happens.  Not saying it couldn’t, but you’ve got to word this so we can see it happening, and it’s far from that now.

Page 42 – the “axe”?  I thought he had a cleaver?

“BEAR GARDEN” – “BEER GARDEN” – Funny!

Page 46 – “friends” – “friend’s”

General note – Again, I’m not buying any of this stuff.  2 of the 3 guys have seen crazy shit going down.  I don’t know where this town is supposed to be, but anywhere is better than in their tiny room.  Doesn’t make sense at all.

Page 48 – I don’t buy Colin’s reaction either.  It also doesn’t make any sense that he fell down and didn’t know what happened to Laura.  How’d Howard get rid of all the evidence so quickly?  What was Colin doing to not know or see anything?  Why would he wait until the next morning to say anything to anyone?  No, no, no…not working at all, sorry to say.

Page 51 – For some reason, you chose not to intro any of these ladies with actual names, but now, you’re letting us know that the one who is missing was Doris.  She should have been intro’d immediately as Doris, along with names of these others, as they are semi main characters.

Now the coach is being called “bus”…even in the Slug, which is definitely a problem!

Page 57 – “INT. BUTCHERS” – What does this Slug mean?

Page 61 – “Behind Russ, Colin stands in the road. Jason climbs over the fence and nears Colin.” – This doesn’t make any sense, as we’re inside the bus on an INT scene.

Page 63 – Again, I just can’t picture any of this going on.  How did Russ die?  How far away from the little village are they?  How’d Howard get there so fast?  None of this makes any sense to me.  A big problem is that you didn’t properly set your stage with what’s around, how far, etc.  It seems like there is only 1 or 2 buildings in the village, then nothing for miles.  How did Colin walk all this distance in the first place?  I’m very confused.

Page 71 – “to” – “too”


Page 72 – “So...I gather we won’t be using the, missing while pot holing story then.” – Huh?  No clue what this is supposed to mean.

Page 76 – “On a work top lies a white sheet, it covers something.  Underneath is an empty body bag.” – This doesn’t make much sense to me. The first line says “something”, and then the next reveals what it is.  No reason to take up 2 sentences for this.

Page 77,78 – “blooded” – Do you mean “bloodied”, or “bloody”?  Never heard of “blooded”.

Page 78 – Way too much use of “the lads” going on.  Need to find another phrase for them.

“They look round, a few empty body bags lie on the floor, the lads look at them.” – Totally incorrect usage of commas here.  This is actually 3 sentences.

Page 82 – “Mozza punches him in the face, the force breaks his nose and knocks him out.” – Wow, that Mozz is one Hell of a puncher!  I never really got a clear picture of Howard.  I thought he was described as a skinny cross eyed kid, but he killed very easily, dragged bodies around like he was Charles Atlas, but then he was knocked down and almost out very easily, and now, a single punch beaks his nose and knocks him out cold.  Again, as I’ve been saying, I don’t buy it.

“His large hand grabs her head and he tosses aside with ease.” – Awkward and missing something.

How can they hear anything outside?  They’re in a kitchen, behind the bar/restaurant, aren’t they?

What happened to the Butcher?  He just threw a couple people around, and now he’s nowhere to be found, as everyone just escapes with ease.

Page 85 – An awful lot of “the lads” here again.

Page 86 – “fall” – “falls”

Page 87 – “butchers” – “butcher’s”

How tiny are these “tongs”?  How could they fit inside his nostrils?  Are we talking about tweezers here?  I can’t visualize this at all.

General note – sometimes you capitalize “the Butcher”, and others, you don’t. Need to be consistent

Page 88 – “Russ’ eyes roll and topples over backwards.” – Missing “he”
Posted by: alffy, February 1st, 2010, 5:07am; Reply: 43
So Jeff I gather you loved this? Lol

No really, thanks for the in depth review and sorry you didn't get any of it.  I'm gonna take on board everything you've pointed out and it gives me a good basis for the re-write.

The Village is small, a pub and a few local buildings surrounding the village square.  I'm going to include aomething at the beginning so that this is not their original destination.  You pointed out why did they go there in the first place?  They couldn't afford to go anywhere else and didn't know it was so bland...I'll work on this.

As for mincing all the victims, some were hanging in the freezer and not yet chopped up.

I'll work on the characters backstories.

The pies.  OK you're obviously a better cook than me.  I agree with the chunky bits but I think including boiling the meat would be pointless to show.

My style doesn't float your boat than?  I didn't want to over describe everything and slow down the flow of the script but I guess I'll have to compramise a bit and include some more details.

Don't start with the commas, if someone else says anything about my commas I'm going to go boil my head lol.  I'll look into these.

Ok, I'm gonna leave the rest but you've definately helped me and given me much to think about.  More importantly you've inspired me to go back to this now and re-work it, so cheers for that.  After reading your thoughts I should have been pissed, as you pretty much hated all of it but this is the kind of review I kind of like.  I'm sure it will help me get this script better, although I think you still wont like it.  I guess British comedy isn't your thing and no matter how good I make it, it won't work for you.  I can't stand blockbuster movies where the plucky underdog gets battered throughout the story only to win at the end in hail of national pride!

I don't think you included one positive here and that got me thinking.  I sometimes review a script that I don't like and find flaws with but try to include some things I like, just to give some positives.  Am I just been to nice?

Cheers for the great(harsh) review Jeff.  
Posted by: alffy, February 1st, 2010, 6:42am; Reply: 44
Oh, I forgot to mention Jeff.  Cooking tongs are quite big but some have a narrow point at the end, so could grab a septum no problem.
Posted by: Dreamscale, February 1st, 2010, 1:06pm; Reply: 45
Hey Alffy, yes, you are too nice!  No, kidding...maybe I'm too mean.  I don't know.

Listen, it's not that I hated the entire thing at all.  As I said, the premise of the village of cannibals is great, IMO.  You have some characters who could be really solid and interesting...and I think they will be, if you give them some more life.  Also, I do see lots of humor in here that is obviously working for others.  I'm just not a comedy guy, so keep in mind that I disliked Shaun of the Dead, and barely was able to get through Hot Fuzz.

With some tweaks, this will be much, much better.  If you can change the entire reason the lads are there, and make it seem like they're genuinely freaked out, once things start getting weird, many of the problems go away.  Give the boys and the antags some life, character, and maybe back story, more issues go away.  Then you're down to the actual writing and how things play out.

I'm sorry to be harsh and picky.  I really do mean for it to help, and when I see things that I feel are wrong, I point them out.

I do need to get in the habit of pointing out some positives.

About the grinder vs. the simmered meat.  I personally would have large tubs of "stuff" simmering away on the stove in the kitchen at all times.  One fo them could even come into play as a great weapon...boiling liquid in the face!

Hope this does help, Alffy.  I don't mean to put you down or anything like that. OK?
Posted by: ajr, February 1st, 2010, 1:38pm; Reply: 46
Hey Dreamscale,

Give me fair warning if you ever review anything of mine so I can up my meds that day... (0:
Posted by: Dreamscale, February 1st, 2010, 1:58pm; Reply: 47
Funny, AJR.  I'll definitely let you know.

I was just pointing out issues that I saw.  Only trying to help.
Posted by: ajr, February 1st, 2010, 2:10pm; Reply: 48
j/k as you know - actually I respect a great deal the fact that you speak your mind so openly, with the intention of trying to help, of course...
Posted by: alffy, February 1st, 2010, 2:14pm; Reply: 49
Jeff, boiling water in the face....nice idea!

I have no complaints about your review style, it only makes me want to work at my script more.  You were totally honest and isn't that the point of a review.  If it doesn't work for you then say so.
Posted by: dresseme (Guest), February 1st, 2010, 3:49pm; Reply: 50
alffy,

Sorry it's taken me so long, but I've got quite a bit on my plate.  Normally I'd breeze through a few scripts a day, but that's just not possible as of late.

Anyway, I made the mistake of reading Jeff and Pia's critiques and now I'm at a bit of a loss of what to say.  If I had to pick the type of feeling I had after reading it, I'd say I identified more with Pia's attitude of "Well, ok."  

I guess my biggest complaint with the piece is that I feel like I've seen this story before, and not a whole lot has changed.  There's a film you might want to check out called "Delicatessen" which uses a similar plot line of grinding people up into pies.  Here's the direction I thought you were going to take it, that I was slightly disappointed you didn't: I thought you were gearing up to introduce these characters who we were supposed to take as dead-on targets.  Like most horror movies.  You introduce a bunch of characters that are ripe for the plucking, and you watch them get picked off one-by-one. BUT just when you think that's going to happen, the characters you've introduced turn the tables on the antagonists and become the ones to be feared.  Hmm.  Am I making any sense?  I thought you were going this way when the one guy clocked the girl in the face after she tried to kill him.  I thought they were going to re-group and wreck havoc on these guys.  And while that did, in a way, happen...I never really felt like they were in control of the situation.  

Ok, that was a lot of rambling, and really, looking back, I guess that's just my way of saying that I desperately wanted to see something different with the story.

Also, you utilized a popular horror convention (seen in movies like Hostel) where the girls lure the horny guys to their doom.  But why?  Why go to all the trouble when Howard just runs around cleaving people anyway?  It doesn't make much sense.

Finally, I'd have to agree with people about the characters.  The most differentiated one is Gav, but even that's not saying a whole lot.  I think you really need to develop some unique voices and character traits for all of them.  But that's all stuff you've heard before.

In the end, I think your next draft needs to focus on re-working the characters and the story.  Address all the plot holes mentioned by Jeff (and others) and once you do that, maybe you'll re-work it into something entirely different and unique.

Like I said before, I didn't hate your script or anything.  It just, in the end, kind of left me feeling kind of "Well, ok." about it.
Posted by: alffy, February 1st, 2010, 5:09pm; Reply: 51
Cheers for the read Dressel.  I've had some good pointers recently and am definately working on this.  I don't know if it will change direction much but I'll defo work on the characters.  As for the girls luring the horny guys, well it works for most movies so why not lol.  After watching a lot of British horror/comedies recently I'd say they have as many plot holes as this so I could be onto something? lol.  Anyway cheers for the feedback, I'm not killing this script off yet.
Posted by: Andrew, February 4th, 2010, 6:12pm; Reply: 52
Alf,

Hope you're well.

About time I got 'round to 'Pub Lunch'. Definitely agree a new title is required, maybe something like 'Meat Balls', which I see was the title of the short. Personally, I'd change it back.

Having read the script, I had a gander at the reviews. Not sure I agree with the montage comments. There was a similar montage at the start of the 'An Education' script, so no bother there. The negative reviews tended to baffle me, really. That's the beauty of opinion, though.

This script painted a picture of working class England for me, perfectly. Even down to the beer mat flipping. All that was missing was Stelling, football betting, Stella and the casino!  Really good work. You captured some great images, and Kelly rubbing Gav's thigh while he holds his beer is one. Very subtle way of getting so much across.

So, first off, the lad characters do possibly need some tweaking. Further differentiation would maybe give an added depth to their journeys, but would be a waste of pages, IMHO. They do straddle each other's ground at times. Yet, having said that, it does capture a certain type of British working class young man. Preoccupied with women, impressing their peers, living it large and beer swilling; you make a statement in itself by sticking with 3 similar characters. Mozza is a loudmouth but street smart, Gav a bit more thoughtful and innocent and Russ a bit of a scapegoat, so there are marked differences, but from the same pallet. I guess it really comes down to how strong the message you have is. If you kept these guys as they are, I don't think it would drag the script down. You could even make fun of it by bringing attention to how they're actually similar.

Secondly, the issue of 'why would they go', well, I think you have a couple of options there. You can have them placed on this trip as some sort of training exercise, but that leaves possile plotholes, yet Jason is a plausible way out. Me and friends would often take trips to random places for 'dayers', so places like Poole. We'd take the train down and get pissed moving from pub to pub. Then see what happens. It was mindless youthful fun, and a great laugh. Anyway, maybe you could have the lads arrive on a similar ticket, but forced into an unplanned stay due to x or y. Maybe they got there on some kind of gamble. They lost the bet and had to come to this place. You've a wealth of options.

With regards to the believability issue, I do think there is a point. How does the village remain unchecked in its activities? The world in which you set this script allows you to develop believability. 'The Wicker Man' was able to successfully subvert reality with its Pagan theme, and also the fact it was an island. That took them away from the arm of law. Scotland has a few little offshore possibilities, so maybe a relocation could allow you to tackle the problem.

So, yes, this is an unashamedly British film. The lads' banter is amusing in a very British way, with the Mozza/Gav dynamic a strong point. There is definitely a market for this film. It's very marketable to the 'Dead Man's Shoes' crowd. By that, I mean, film-loving Brits with an eye for stories borne of working class roots. That's how I would market it anyway. It touches in the provincial nature of its subjects, their environment and how the two work in tandem. You tread similar ground here. Is this marketable outside the UK? Not sure. Maybe in European markets, but I think it'd fall flat in the States. From what I can see, the reviews tend to fall in line with that thinking. I could be wrong.

I did have an issue with the relationship between the 'Butcher' and 'Howard'. It kind of feels a little too like 'Leatherface' and the Hewitts, and out of place with the rest of the tone. Not a huge problem, nor am I sure what a remedy would be, but it's something that stuck with me.

My biggest problem, however, was that Russ saw Derek (who he presumably knew was the driver, but what about the driver search in the morning?) being put in a body bag, Mozza was almost killed and they still stayed overnight? I get they had no obvious way out, but would they really stay? I think you need a more compelling reason for them to stay.

You inserted some good plotlines here. One that spoke of frustrations many young lads have felt over the years, the gooseberry. Mozza and Gav pull, while Russ twiddles his thumb. Many will be able to relate to that story and it worked effectively towards your end as well. Kelly's issues, while not strikingly original, do give credibility to her actions. As already mentioned, Laura and Kelly being different was a nice touch and worked well with the aforementioned Mozza/Gaz dynamic. Jason was a great touch, and took me by surprise giving the script an extra dimension.

On a sidenote:

- I would've loved to have seen Alan Clarke ('Rita, Sue and Bob too', 'Scum') handle this material. He would've really nailed this.

- Derek's kill was so funny. Kudos.

- Mozza's unpacked suitcase. Gold.

- "I’m going to find my wife. I may not be back for bingo." Brilliant, even if a little 'Carry On'.

- Bingo false calls and 'Doris'. Again, another example of amusing dialogue.

- I loved how you kept revisiting the pensioner with the scarf and its development. It could work in the same way the harmonica does in 'Punch-Drunk Love'.

Another post to follow.
Posted by: Andrew, February 4th, 2010, 7:15pm; Reply: 53
A great little script, Alf. You've crafted a quick read that hits the right notes.

The question really now is where do you go from here?

I notice a few suggestions have been made, which are all valid.

Personally, the areas that require a look:

- Why don't the boys leave in the night after what they've seen and experienced?

- Location, plus fleshing out the imagery a little more to establish more clearly how weird this place is.

- Reasoning for going there. The coach trip is fine and I like that angle as you bring in the pensioners who added some really good laughs.

The characters feel, largely, fine to me. Refining is the word, I think. Anything more feels too much.

Deep down, you will know when this is 'ready', as per your vision. I suspect it's fairly close. The one thing that I always search for in any movie, irrespective of genre, is some form of message, and I felt it was missing here. Or did I miss something? Some would say it's a throwaway comedy/horror, so why is it needed? My answer would be that all the best films (generally) in their genre are peppered (ahem) with a 'message' and it's this resonance which elevates it.

This script requires subtle changes, but I think you are at the point where you should be getting this out to eyes who will get it made. The BBC would be a start, and while it's unlikely they would make it themselves, you don't know where it could lead from there. Luck will always be needed in this game, as is graft and taking chances. I'd hit relevant prodcos who traditionally produce this type of stuff, and while some may not read it, there may always be one that does, and it may only take one. My thinking is that it's better to get it actively out there, 'cos it's got more chance getting made than churning through endless updates on SS, y'know.

You know what's best for this script, mate and I trust in you to reach the right level with it.

Whatever you do, get this out there at some point soon.

It's a great script, and it would be a real surprise if there are not bods in the Brit industry who agree with me and others who share the same sentiment in the reviews.

Very, very nice work.

Andrew
Posted by: alffy, February 5th, 2010, 9:46am; Reply: 54
Hey Andrew, chers for checking this out.

I think this definately appeals to Brits more than Americans, and I think you're right when you say it's the humour.  Some of the plot holes are being worked on but I fear the page count is pushing up.  This may not be to bad as I think it would play a lot shorter than the 90 minutes would suggest.

I also working the characters a little too.  I have ditched the motage at the start but the initial kitchen scene remains, now with added banter between the lads and sheds light on why they are going on a break.  I like that you found the little things good, like the beer mat flipping and things.  Again though, I think these things mainly appeal to the British pub goer lol.

I was ready to try and shufty this about but I think I'll wait till I've worked on the new draft and then I'll see what and where I can send this.
Posted by: fionaman, January 7th, 2011, 8:49pm; Reply: 55
BWAAA!!! This is one of the funniest scripts I've ever read. That's all I'm gonna say. This should be up in the comedy section!
Posted by: alffy, January 8th, 2011, 11:29am; Reply: 56
Hey, I haven't been here for a while so getting a read is always nice.  Cheers and I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Posted by: CoopBazinga, January 31st, 2012, 10:00am; Reply: 57
Hey Alffy,

Pub lunch was the first feature length I read as a guest user here on SS back in October and I remember it well as I enjoyed it immensely  

Anyway, I just wondered if you wanted any more feedback as it has been a while since it was originally posted?

I wasn’t going to comment as I thought you weren’t around anymore but have seen you popping up again recently. Just let me know?

Cheers.

Steve
Posted by: alffy, January 31st, 2012, 1:00pm; Reply: 58
Steve, it would be great if you left me some of your thoughts about this. I've actually submitted a new draft as I made a few changes for a director who was interested in this but ultimately it fell through. The changes aren't massive, just a few extra scenes to fill a few holes so dont feel the need to read it again, mate. I have been away a while but hopefully back for the foreseable future.
Posted by: Reef Dreamer, January 31st, 2012, 3:03pm; Reply: 59
Allfy

is this the current script - just checking as you mention a new draft but the last SS revision was 2009?

I'll have a gander once i know this is the one to read.

cheers
Posted by: alffy, January 31st, 2012, 3:30pm; Reply: 60
I submitted the new draft last week so I reckon Don will have it up soon. I'll post when its up.
Posted by: alffy, January 31st, 2012, 5:33pm; Reply: 61
This is still the old draft but new one should be up soon.  Actually, having just checked I've added another 7 pages in the new draft so maybe there's a bit more than I remember. I did forget to change the date on the title page so it still reads 2010.
Posted by: CoopBazinga, January 31st, 2012, 10:18pm; Reply: 62
Hey Alffy,

I'll give the new draft a read when it's posted.

Steve
Posted by: alffy, February 2nd, 2012, 3:44am; Reply: 63
New draft is up. Thanks Don.
Posted by: CoopBazinga, February 9th, 2012, 4:29am; Reply: 64
Hey Alffy,

Sorry for the delay but stupid things called “work” and “family” got in the way.

Like I said in a previous post, this was the first feature length script I read on SS when I found the site back in October and I remember enjoying it so much. Have I change my mind…of course not!

It’s a brilliant little tale with lots of blood, humor and even handjobs. This will not be to everyone’s taste, a lot of the jokes and dialogue will fly straight over a lot of reader’s head who aren’t British.

I enjoyed the three main characters, they work together. We have the douche, the romantic and how would you describe Russ? Well, he likes a fag. They are just well written IMO, all the dialogue sounds natural between the guys and you can see these three down any local this weekend which I mean as a compliment.

On the other hand, all the rest of the characters struggle because so much emphasises is put on the three guys. Apart from the end reveal, we don’t get to know much about them; just they like to eat people. Not all of them needed a solid individual story but it would have been nice to see the Kelly and Gav storyline flourish before all hell broke loose. She could have told him about her mother and discussed some background on the village.

Also feel that in a filmed version, it would be hard to pull off with all the characters mainly in a single location, we rarely leave the pub, I’d say 75% of the script is at the pub one way or the other. There are different variations like beer garden, the lads room, kitchen but it still is the same pub at the end of the day. It could feel claustrophobic on screen, always in the same pub. Just a thought.

I do like the horror in this, it’s comedy graphic with heads being thrown into people’s groins and swinging bones like baseball bats, overall I think you did a good job with the action…however, I think the final fight could be tightened and more clear. It’s good visually but hard to get through with all the characters and things happening at one time.

I loved the dialogue and for me you’ve done an excellent job throughout, it read so natural and smooth.

Don’t know about the ending, the reveal of Kelly’s mother was a nice touch but as for the guys cooking the pies for the locals, I’m not sure. After all the vomiting they’ve done over seeing people get chopped up, to suddenly do it themselves seems farfetched but it fits the theme you were going for here.

The writing is good, I didn’t have much of a problem and breezed through the script in no time which I always think is a good thing. I read it in one sitting this afternoon. I really enjoyed this but maybe I’m biased as like I say this was the first script I read and for that reason, it holds a special place with me.

These are the notes I took during the read:


P. 1 Russ wearing all black with black hair, all I can picture is a goth and I don’t know if this is the impression you want?

P. 2 “the Slaughtered Lamb.” Fantastic.

P. 5 “Hi De Hi” I love the guys banter in this but could understand why our friends across the sea could struggle to follow some of it. It’s very British which appeals to me.

P.6 “A quaint setting with flock wallpaper, old wooden tables and chairs and black and white pictures decorate the walls.” To many “and’s” this sentence for me. Try to break it up with a period after chairs.

P.10 Russ finished his pint damn fast! Wish I could drink like that.

P.12 I wonder whether you need a change of slug or maybe just a mini slug or P.O.V shot here for Jason and Jess when Russ looks at them. I gather they are not in the beer garden.

P.14 “you’re lovely you aren’t you.” Not that there is anything wrong with this line of dialogue, it’s just I had to reread it because it came off confusing when first looked it over. Just a thought.

“fresh pint” Take out fresh, already mentioned they are fresh pints in the action before.

“She probably taking the piss.” I think “She’s” would read better here.

P.15 Like Mozza’s reaction to the room.

P.16 “Jess enters via the bar door.” This is a superfluous sentence as you end the scene straight after this line.

At page 35 now, one concern would be that the boys have been at the pub for 30 pages now which is 30 minutes on screen. Seems a long time to sustain characters in the same location. I understand there has been the variation of the beer garden and upstairs rooms but it’s still the same pub at the end of the day. Don’t know if you thought about adding a scene where the boys look around the town,

P.37                              GAV
                    But the coach doesn’t leave till
                    Sunday.

Till should be til I believe.

P.38 “Gobshite” great word! Takes me back to the playground. :)

P.40 “scythe” Now that’s a killing tool!

P.41 I do like Mozza punching Laura, something really funny in that for some reason. He looks around, takes in his situation, shrugs and BANG! Visually, it’s funny. ;D

P.43 The way you have done the scene here with Russ and Howard is what I think you need to do in that earlier scene I mentioned. It will make it a lot more clearer IMO.

P.45 Till or til, not sure really but I always thought it was spelled til if shortened for until and till was a cash register. It’s just you have written “till” changed to “til” and then back to “till” over a few pages. I do like consistency, sorry if I am being too picky.

P.47 It’s a bit difficult to believe the boys would wait until the morning to leave, shit, I would be out of there in a heartbeat. I think you need a more convincing reason for them to stay put until the morning. Not sure what but it needs more IMO. I’ll think about it as I go on.

How did Colin end up in the village square? Wouldn’t he have asked in the pub for help? Ask them to ring the police as he can’t get reception on his phone? He has no idea anything is wrong yet? Just seems strange to look for your wife with a damaged ankle when you have an idea where she is? Did he even check their hotel room? He didn’t say so?

P.50 “He strides off towards the bus.” Thought it was a coach?

P.51 Here the slug is INT. BUS – DAY but the day when they arrived it was INT. COACH – DAY. There is a difference between the two vehicles; maybe there is a coach and a bus outside? Don’t think so but it needs to be consistent unless the reader will get confused. Keep all descriptions as coach IMO.

P.53 “INT. COACH – DAY” Now we’re back in the coach.

P.59 A long passage of time seems to have elapsed between Laura entering the pub, something to look at. She enters the door in one scene and then 4 pages later finally entering on the other side. Seems a tad too long for these scenes to come together is all.

P. 69                  MOZZA
             I’m gonna fucking brain him.

Like it!

“He silently speaks before falling backwards.” How could Jason fall backwards if he’s already on the floor?

P.75 “he wears his smart uniform.” Who else’s uniform would he be wearing? :P

Also at 75 pages, it feels so late to be introducing a new character, I think you should reference or intro Fraiser earlier in the script. I mean at 93 pages, it seems too late for me.
Edit: He never returns after this one scene, thought that was strange really because you could utilise this character more IMO.

P.76 “Gav follow.” Follows

P.82 “The engine noise dies and a car door slams closed.” Wouldn’t this (O.S) as well? Like the previously times.

P. 85                            MOZZA
                  We’ll, now I know what a Bernard
                  Matthews turkey feels like.

We’ll should be well but I do like this line, funny.

                                   MOZZA
                 Heads up.

Yes! Great pun. ;D

The action in the kitchen at the end could be tightened to make it clearer, a lot of things are happening at once and that can come off as confusing. I found myself stopping to try and clarify where everyone would be in this scene.

Overall this is a fun piece and right up my alley, it won’t be for everyone but for someone who enjoyed movies like Severance and Shaun of the Dead, this is great.

I enjoyed it and glad I gave it another read.

Great work! :)

Steve
Posted by: alffy, February 9th, 2012, 11:35am; Reply: 65
Steve, thanks for the great review and I'm glad you enjoyed this.

I agree, not everyone will like this and some may miss a lot of the (British) gags.  Thanks for pointing out the Bus/Coach mistakes, I thought I'd changed them all but I guess I missed a few lol.

I tried to keep a good load of comedy in here but also some nice gory scenes too.  I also agree that the final scene can be a bit confusing with a lot going on in a single location but I struggled to keep it as clear as it is now.

As for most of it being set in the pub; I never set out to do this intentionally but I can see how it could become a bit repetitive.

Thanks for the read and good feedback.  If you want me to give anything of yours a read just pm me.
Posted by: CoopBazinga, February 10th, 2012, 5:38am; Reply: 66

Quoted from alffy
Thanks for pointing out the Bus/Coach mistakes, I thought I'd changed them all but I guess I missed a few lol.


It doesn't matter how many times we proof read our work, there's always something we missed. ;D

Glad I was able help, I'm curious, how come it fell through with the director if you don't mind me asking? Was it certain things he didn't like about the script or other reasons like finance or whatever?

Steve

Posted by: alffy, February 10th, 2012, 12:19pm; Reply: 67
To be honest, Steve I think he was yanking my chain. He said he loved it but could I make a few changes and add a few scenes which I did. Then he wanted a treatment so I wrote one and then he said it read too much like a comedy? I was left baffled lol
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, February 10th, 2012, 12:57pm; Reply: 68
Hey Anthony,

Glad to see the new draft is getting some attention.
Good to see you bouncing about the forums these days!

I'll read this in chunks, as my work schedule allows.
"Fresh eyes" notes as I go with a few thoughts to sum up is how I like to roll. ;D

P. 7
Mozza's dialogue.
"The Slaughtered Lamb probably."

Is that a reference to a certain John Landis film? :P

P. 8
I'm a little surprised we haven't learned more about our protags yet.
Assuming there's lots of character related plot reasons for the trip.
There's situations at home that could be discussed to color the characters, etc.
Something like that would help me learn who these blokes are.

P. 9
Villagers emerge during the day...
Well, that rules out the coach delivering our heroes to be a vampire snack.
Since most folks are "pensioners", could be a nice food scheme for leeches! ;D

P. 14
Kelly and Jess have a wee dust up.
I feel like I know more about them than I do about our trio of lads.
It's getting a little frustrating for me. I want to learn about the guys.

I'm stopping at page twenty today.
I have to say, your pages read pretty smoothly.
I wasn't confused or tripped up by much of anything.

However, I didn't find the story engaging.
I got increasingly frustrated as I went on, actually.
I learned more about your supporting characters than I did about the protags.

The Butcher and the boy have a tense relationship.
Colin's self absorbed and his girl is a bit mousey and puts up with a lot of junk.
These interactions have something the protag scenes don't: CONFLICT.

I think your protags didn't grab me, because there's no conflict in their scenes.
Sure, there's complaining, judging, joking and all that.
But I didn't learn hardly anything about their backgrounds or history.
All they seem to want out of life is a pint and a bird.

I think if you set up a back story for them, it could breed some conflict.
I don't get a sense of the shorthand that mates typically have with each other.
And there's nothing in the opener to give me any clues to that either.
Mozza, Gav and Russ sound the same to me, almost identical.  

Maybe I'm being a little tough due to the nature of what I'm currently writing.
It's a spec that's aimed at the studio system. It's gotta be "killer" and all that stuff.
But I didn't get a whiff of a character story to support the journey.
Without that, I'm unsure what your script's about and it's already 20% gone.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: alffy, February 10th, 2012, 5:28pm; Reply: 69
E.D. You have a good point. I did initially have a few scenes before they are on the coach but I dropped them. They told a little bit about the characters so maybe I should have left them in? I think I dropped them as I thought they didnt really fit with the comedy that follows. I hope you continue reading though and find some enjoyment in it. Thanks for reading so far.
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, February 15th, 2012, 1:42pm; Reply: 70

Quoted from alffy
E.D. You have a good point. I did initially have a few scenes before they are on the coach but I dropped them. They told a little bit about the characters so maybe I should have left them in? I think I dropped them as I thought they didnt really fit with the comedy that follows. I hope you continue reading though and find some enjoyment in it. Thanks for reading so far.


Hey Alffy,

Big apologies for giving the impression I was dropping the script.
I assure you, that's not the case.
I'll get back on this post haste.

LOL! I didn't even know this was in horror.
I guess after the first 20 pages things go south! :P

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: alffy, February 15th, 2012, 2:47pm; Reply: 71
Perhaps it should be comedy/horror rather than horror/comedy lol. It does get more horror but never strays too far from comedy.
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, February 28th, 2012, 1:54pm; Reply: 72
Hey Anthony,

My apologies for letting your script get shuffled in the jumble that is my life.

It's a big red flag that I had no idea what your genre was by page 20.
That's something you may want to revisit.
Maybe give the audience a tasty grabber to start. Consider it.
Could help alleviate impatience as your script unfolds.

Okay, picking up from page 20, let's see how this little village fares...

P. 22
The pie thing was a little obvious.
Perhaps taking that to an absurd level would be better?
Say, locals in the pub dissuade the boys as well. All eyes on them.
The boys assume it's a weird local thing, shrug it off, for now.

P. 25
Word missing here in Gav's dialogue...
Why do feel the need to have a go
at everyone you meet?


P. 26
Why give the outsiders the meat cooked uber rare?
Makes no sense if the proprietor wants to keep things on the down low.

Okay got to page 40 today.... and I still can't tell this tale has any horror at all.
If you're looking to get this produced, that's a big problem IMO.

For example, people ding me on Zombie Playground for the following:

The main protags don't get attacked by zombies until the script's half over.
But...there's loads of gooey zombie chaos earlier in the script...

Page two, the origin of the zombie effect is introduced.
Page eight, the zombie effect spreads through FigCorp.
Page twenty-two, the zombies take over FigCorp.
Page thirty, the zombie effect spreads through the playground.
Page forty, the zombie army overruns the playground.

All that in the first forty pages.
Tons of genre content for all, and yet, I still get those notes. Why?
Likely because I don't directly endanger my hero until the halfway point.

Given all that, and you're dealing with a similar set up and genre picture...
You can see why I think your script isn't up to speed, plot wise.

Straight up genre pictures gotta keep the plot chugging along.
And I don't get a sense of that urgency in the script so far.
I'll continue much sooner than this round took to get to.

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: alffy, February 28th, 2012, 4:38pm; Reply: 73
Hey E.D.

I get what you are saying about there not being much horror in the opening part of the story but that was my intention. I wanted the viewer/reader to enjoy the comedic characters and then shift the focus onto the horror in the situation they find themselves.  I hope you stick with it and gave me your final thoughts, even if it's not 'floating your boat' at the moment.
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, March 12th, 2012, 12:08pm; Reply: 74
Hey Anthony,

Back on this now that the OWCness has settled for the most part.
I'll pick this up from page forty today...

P. 41
I like Gav's line to Kelly about how it's okay to have a go anyway.

P. 46
Seems a little convenient that Laura can't reach the knife.
Perhaps if Moz's exuberance shifts it around just out of reach.
A sight gag like that might help.

P. 53
Here's the type of offender that grates me with this script...
Four pages to debate WHEN our protags will leave the town, not if.
Doesn't do much for me, and I'm inclined to believe others will lose patience too.
That's a whole lot of time spent on an inevitable plot point.

P. 55
After seeing more threats, it makes little sense to me to stay the night.
Attempted murder, bodies being dragged about...
Think it's time to call the coppers if I were in that town.

P. 57
These guys had all night to formulate and plan of escape...
And only now at breakfast does it get brought up?
This feels monumentally thick of them to me.

Stopping at page sixty today...

I felt there were some real bonehead plot moves in this segment.
Namely, the idea of spending the night after the murderous reveals.

Not to mention, the script doesn't show us how scared they are...
Like kids huddled together in the night, some kind of cause and effect emotions.

I'd recommend drastic changes to this overnight scenario.
Consider something that makes your protags less dumb and lazy...

Give them a mission... the script is starving for some momentum IMO.
How about the boys decide to steal the bus under the cover of night?

A mission with a clear goal the reader can get invested in.
They sneak out there, fumble and bicker their way into the bus.
While out there, they see more grisly stuff from their hidden location.
They have to keep a lid on their shock and fear.
The guys overhear a critical plot point while hidden, etc.
To me, something like that is much more conducive to a horror comedy.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: jwent6688, March 14th, 2012, 6:29pm; Reply: 75
Alffy,

Decided to give this a look today. I didn't want to take page by page notes, but there is a good deal of typos and mistakes on this one. I'm really just gonna concentrate on the story.

I've reached page 40 and had to stop and write a few things. I'm guessing you're shooting for a Sweeney Todd thing here with the mysterious meat pies? We shall soon see...

Two main problems you're probably gonna be called out for is that #1. I'm not sure who our protag is at this point, It could be Gav or Russ. I'm guessing Mozza is the comic relief and I like his character thus far. But, I'm unclear as to who we are supposed to connect the most with at this point.

#2 40 pages in and nothing has really happened except a bunch of banter between the fellas. Yes, Its pretty good and entertaining, but you're not sucking me into the story, yet. I think thats a mistake. Something significant should've happened by now that compells me to move forward...


JESS
Evening Kelly. - think this should be Laura. pg 28

These girls really seem like some sex starved minxes. They cling to the boys straight away. I found it a bit odd, but we'll see if it ties in with the story.

Page 48 seems to be where we turn to act two when Mozza realizes that Laura was about to kill him. This should've happened about 18 pages ago and I think you could cut much from the opening to get it there.

The death of Colin was a good one. Could see that come off pretty funny on film.

I'm to page 82 now and i'm a bit sorry that kelly hasn't shown up again. I thought you missed an oppurtunity for her to be part of the gang once they go on the run. There could have been some good lines during the chaos between her and mozza...

Was surpsrised to see Russ' body in the kitchen already. I understood that he was bagged by Howard, I just didn't get that he was already delivered to the slab. Maybe a cut away scene is needed before Mozza and Gav get back to the kitchen.

KELLY
That’s for fucking my dad. - pg 98. This came out of nowhere for me. Did you set this up earlier? I didn't catch it if you did. I would remove it.

DORIS
Two books and dabber for me
please, love. - pg 99. As an ending line, I'll admit, i did not get the relevance of it. What was it supposed to mean?

This is pretty over-the-top comedy. I like it alot, but it has problems. Mt two main points would be to kick it off faster and give kelly a larger role. She did mention she wanted to change and i would like her to go on the lam with these fellers as soon as act two kicks off.

The point I bring up about kicking this off faster is one my own script is victim of doing. I did pay for pro coverage on it and that was a sticking point for the reader. Would gladly send you a copy if you like, since you've read it. Just PM me.

Mozza sticks out amongst the others character wise. I get, now, that gav was our protag. I would give Russ a tick. There's alot of vomitting in this script and I particularly think it would be funny to make Russ into a compulsive vomitter. Gav and Mozza could understand about his weak stomach issue and have some fun with it.

Particularly, he could be barfing on himself during the climax, after he got his toe snagged off.

This had a nice "Sean of the Dead" feel to it comedy wise. Definitely not there, yet, but could be. That's one of my favorite comedies, so take no offense.

All in all, I like what you have here and would like to see you continue to work on it. Hope these notes help some, because I got much help from yours.

Cheers, gonna be awhile before I eat any kind of pie...

James
Posted by: alffy, March 16th, 2012, 4:43am; Reply: 76
James

Cheers for the read.

It is a bit of a slow burner but it was my intention to have a long introduction to the characters, show them as being just normal stupid kids.  I might have to throw in a few more scenes to entice the reader though.

Good point about Kelly, I could include her in the escape.  More vomiting from Russ?  I'm glad you liked the vomiting and could put in more lol.

Doris' line 'two books and a dabber', is about bingo as she mentions bingo throughout the story.

This is a very British script and I feel some of the comedy elements can become lost on other nations.

I had great fun working on this script I thought it might have paid off but it fizzled out and I put this aside as 'done'.  I probably will come back to this...actually I will come back to this as I have received some great advice to improve.

Thanks James, and to everyone who's read this and given me a review.
Posted by: bert, August 5th, 2012, 3:47pm; Reply: 77
While I must have read at least some of the prior comments at some point, I really do not recall that much.  I did notice this is a fairly recent rewrite, however, so a good one to check out.

And I did find it entertaining.  One of the things you are getting right here is that you understand the importance of small moments, such as when Mozza drops the bags at the room, or your tossed-off moments with the old ladies, which are richly comic in their own way.

I did have a problem with the vast number of characters you included for a piece that could easily contain so few -- if it wanted to -- and it did take a while to get going.  Not that I did not enjoy the banter between your trio of protagonists, because I did, particularly the "Briticisms", but we were well into the script before the story began to emerge.  People have different opinions on that, and I could get that you were really trying to establish your little town prior to the mayhem.  I think the British mind this less, while us impatient Americans get restless with it, and I will just chalk it up to that rather than pointing to it as an actual problem.
    
In terms of character trimming, for my money, Colin and Susan could be completely tossed.  I do not recall those two doing anything that some of your old ladies could not have done better.  Imagine the fun you could have if it were a feisty old woman out there in the field looking for a missing companion -- then battling your effeminate Jason -- then getting clobbered by the bus instead of Colin.  I think this change would suit your tone well, while also shaving a few pages, but maybe that is just me.

As for your main guys, Gav and Mozza are well-defined (and I hope you do not mind that I envisioned you in the role of Mozza  :) ). Russ, however, is your weak link.  You need to find more personality for him, apart from having a cigarette dangling from his lips, although this actually does work to a point, but it is not quite enough.

You also hinted numerous times at some kind of subplot with Kelly and her mother, but this did not pay off very well near the end, with a blink-and-you-miss-it reveal.  It is not a bad angle, really, but you could easily pump this up a bit with a little more investigation by Kelly, and a stronger reaction once the truth becomes known.  Though, frankly, it is not much of a surprise, as you drop too many hints along the way.  You might want to take a look at that, too.

You have a number of instances -- and perhaps too many -- where people vomit or talk about vomiting.  If memory serves, it may be 10 or more.  Personally, I do not like vomiting on the screen and find it repugnant.  Just a peeve, I suppose, but I suspect I am not alone.  Think about watching a movie and somebody pukes.  Now think about watching such a scene 5 or more times in the same movie.  You might look to shave a few of these episodes to conserve some pages.

In the end, I will say that I got exactly what I expected here -- and that is either a strength or a weakness, depending on what you are trying to achieve with this piece.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with delivering what the audience expects going in, and in fact, doing the opposite can sometimes bite you in the arse.

To me, what this piece did well, it did very well, and while I was entertained throughout, I do have to say that it held very few outrageous surprises that I never saw coming.  You might look to inject a few of those.
Posted by: alffy, August 6th, 2012, 1:28pm; Reply: 78
Cheers, bert.

You've made some good points here.  The Kelly subplot was a later addition so could probably do with some more work.  I actually added most of this at the request of an interested producer but he turned out to be wasting my time lol.

You're probably right about Colin and Susan too?

I had no idea I'd included so much vomit lol.

I know this is a slow burner and have thought a few times about adding something early but was never sure what?

Me as Mozza? lol.  Actually I pictured Danny Dyer or Jack O'Connell as Mozza.

I've not done much with this for a while due to my disappointment when I thought this was going somewhere but maybe I'll do another rewrite after I finish the new feature I've started, so in a year or two then lol.

Thanks for the read and the great idea of the feature train even though it's all gone tits up.
Posted by: danbotha, August 12th, 2012, 12:52am; Reply: 79
Hey Anthony,

I haven't read the feedback you've been given, so please forgive any repeats.

POSSIBLE SPOILERS!!

As an entire piece, I enjoyed this. The writing was clean and easy to get through. You have a very decent story line with awesome characters and brilliant one liners which had me laughing out loud. I think that's something every horror needs... A character to make you laugh, while all the killing goes on. The thing is, for the first half I felt that you were maybe more focused on the comedy side of things rather than the horror side of the story. It takes 47 pages for us to see the first attempted murder and for me, that's slightly too long. I can appreciate you trying to establish your characters, but maybe have something a little more exciting to spice things up. I thought it would be good to bring Susan's disappearance in a little earlier to help with that...?

Having said that, I thought the comedy parts were brilliant and for that, I have to give you credit. Some likeable characters, as well as the non-likeable villains. Some good contrast, there.

The Butcher is an important character in this whole thing and it is for that reason I think he should have a name. It just seems weird having a main character without a name, don't you think? IDK, maybe it's just me.

Page 67: "His nose is horribly broken, it leans to one side. Blood smeared across his cheeks and his eyes are swollen." - All that damage done with just one stone? Wow.

Otherwise, I really liked this one. Some of the comedy flew over my head a bit, but I suspect those might be lines that only click with the British.

Great work!

Daniel
Posted by: alffy, August 12th, 2012, 8:31am; Reply: 80
Dan, thanks for checking this out.  It's been through a few rewrites in recent times but I've left it alone for a while.

Glad you liked the characters, I worked hard to make them likeable and funny.  A shame you didn't get all the gags but that's okay.  I thought about giving the Butcher a name but in the end I decided to leave him kind of a mystery guy.

The whole, is it too slow at the beginning?  Well, I had mixed thoughts on this.  Some agree with you that I need to spice things up in the first act but I've also had some comments that it's okay.  I admit the ones who didn't find it the start too slow were mainly European readers, perhaps we don't mind waiting for the action lol.

I've said this previously that maybe this should be listed as a comedy/horror rather than horror/comedy?  The comedy is very British and is played out more than the horror.  I'm glad you enjoyed it and it wasn't a drag to read.  I think I like comedy horror's as I'm writing another as we speak lol.  I actually wrote a kids horror comedy last year (not on here) as it was meant to be filmed in a school by the kids but I'll have to wait and see if that's going to happen.

Cheers, Dan.
Posted by: rc1107, August 12th, 2012, 7:02pm; Reply: 81
Hey Alffy.

I was able to read about half of 'Pub Lunch' today.  I have to be at work in a few, (night shift tonight), but I should be able to finish the 2nd half on Tuesday.  (SHOULD be able to.)

Here are some notes and thoughts that went through my head during the first half of the script:

-  The first ten pages kind of drag.  I'm all for slow starts and everything, but it might help for something to happen, rather than just chatter.

-  There's a lot of people introduced before and when we get to the bar,  (and a lot of them seem to be fat?).  While reading, I'm forgetting who's a local and who's the visitors, (and who's overweight), and I usually never have problems remembering characters.

-  Twenty pages in and there only seems to be filler banter.  However, Jess and Kelly are piqueing my interest a little and I want to find out what's going on.  I'm wondering if this is a 'House of 1000 Corpses'-type of family you're going for.

-  Hmm.  Did they go to a totally different country?  Kelly said the meat pies are more of a 'traditional' meal.  The way it read in the beginning, it seems like they only traveled to the next town over.

-  At page 38, almost the midpoint, and it still just seems like it's chatter and banter.  The story isn't really progressing at all, and Mozza is wearing very thin.  He can't pull the entire story himself with his snide comments.  It seems like you're trying to hold a surprise back and expect the meat pies to be a twist, Soylent Green-style.

- Kelly seems unbalanced character-wise.  First, she's unsure and doesn't want to do the family 'thing' anymore.  But then, she seems amped up and even sets the boys up.  Then, she stops her thing with Gav, when she already knows Laura is going to go through with it.  Something with her just isn't clicking.  It seems like you weren't sure if you wanted her to be tentative, or a bad ass.

-  LOL.  The scene where Laura attempts to stab Mozza while still spanking his monkey.  I laughed.

Okay, maybe I didn't go into this with the right frame of mind.  I know you labeled it as a horror/comedy, but maybe I should've focused on the story more as a comedy.

That being said, the first 45 pages might benefit from a bit more jokes, rather than just Mozza's juvenile attitude.  And it still couldn't hurt to get to the story a bit faster.  I was a little bit apprehensive at around page 40 if anything was ever going to happen, but it seems like it's starting to get rolling now.

-  You bring characters like Derek and Howard back.  I don't even remember if they're guests or locals anymore.  There's way too many characters in the beginning that aren't given very much attention to.

Well, the first half was incredibly slow, but, like I said, we seem to be picking up steam now around the halfway point, (and now that I'm going to view it more as a comedy).  Wish I could finish it tonight, but I probably won't have anymore freetime until Tuesday or Wednesday to finish.

I'll talk to you then.

- Mark
Posted by: irish eyes, August 13th, 2012, 1:53pm; Reply: 82
Hey Alffy

Ok read it one go which is unusual for me as i don't get much time to myself and it flowed pretty easy.

I didn't read any other feedbacks so any repeating I apologise.

It's entirely british I see that and I get that, some Americans probably wont but I spent the 22 years in Ireland which is why I get the Hi De HI reference.

Slow start and for me personally waayyyy to many characters... I counted 12 by page 5 and 16 by page 10 ... I had to go back a few times to remember who was who.

The front of the coach was occupied by the elderly on page 2 then on page 4 the front seat was occupied by Jason??? did I miss something

Mozza description .    a large joint of meat  should be capital A

pg 28 Evening Kelly should be Laura

page 61 Gav says... We better do somet... obviously something.

There were a few other grammar errors not much which made for an easy read.

The 3 guys where very well wrote,  it was easy to tell them apart you gave them all strong characters although at times Mozza's responses were starting to become tiresome he did have some really funny lines.... Heads up :) lol


I don't know if it was just me but there seemed to be a lot of vomiting going on, I get that it was a gore fest, I believe one time Russ vomited 3 times in a row.

It took a while to get started, but I could see it turning into a Sweeney Todd movie which I guess you're basing it on.

Did I lose Susan somewhere?, I know she left her brother and went back to the pub....so I'm sure she ended up on the table... probably left to my discretion... But a minor character and maybe one you don't need along with her brother.

Kelly kinda came off as a character that really needs to be worked on... She seems insensitive then sensitive, she wants to kill gav and then likes him too much and for reason doesn't know what happened her mother until 3 pages from the end... she also dissapears for about 30 pages for someone who is playing Gav's love interest who inturn is your main protag.

The killing spree at the end in the kitchen was hard to keep track off, I kept having to go back and forth and I'm guessing Kelly actually killed Laura with the rolling pin bash.

Overall though I did enjoy it and I liked how you brought it together at the end.
I would say to tone down the amount characters especially at the start and give Kelly more of a role..

You obviously put a lot of thought into this script and writing was very tight, the descriptions/actions were straight forward and easy to read.

Good job

Mark




Posted by: rc1107, August 13th, 2012, 2:42pm; Reply: 83
All right, I found a bit of time so I was able to finish it today.

-  There's a little bit too much exposition on page 52.  Mozz is just telling us what we already know.

-  Lol.  I don't remember Jason or Colin off-hand either,  Definately need something to help us distinguish which characters are which.-  

-  I was a little disappointed by the way the boys stood up for themselves.  I thought they were going to use cooking methods to kill the locals.  It ended up just using the same gimmicks as other splatter films.  (Knives in the chest, or splitting a throat.)  I wanted to see someone's hand get diced by a tomato dicer or face get shoved and pummeled through the sharp blades of a lettuce slicer, or someone shoved into a vat of boiling oil.


But, I do have to admit, the second half of the story was definately better paced than the first half.

I'm not a horror fan, or a comedy fan, so I think that's why this story may have fell a little flat for me.  I can definately tell you've put a lot of time and thought into it, though.  It's not that it wasn't a good quality story (for the type of story it is), it just didn't work for me.

I understand why you wanted the slow start, but I think it's way too slow, and I think you can cut out quite a bit in the beginning and add some foreshadowing in the beginning to keep people interested and add even more wit to the story.

I would also recommend definately cutting down the characters, or at least make them stand out more.  Just saying which ones are overweight in the beginning doesn't help me visualize and keep track of who's who 45 or 60 pages later into the story.

I hope all this helps.  I did laugh (once I realized you were going for more of a british comedy than a horror).  If you label this as anything, I'd recommend splatter-comedy, as people tend not to take splatter films all that seriously anyway.

Good luck on this one.  There are some good visuals and comedy elements to it.  I can see it being made eventually, but that first half and some of the characters and plot, (like Gav and Kelly) need brushed up first.

- Mark  (RC Mark, not Irish Eyes Mark.  :-)
Posted by: alffy, August 13th, 2012, 5:37pm; Reply: 84
Cheers for comments, Mark & Mark.

I'll comment on your feedback tomorrow as I'm writing this post on my phone. You did both mention how slow this was at the beginning and that there are too many characters. I think I may go back to this and rework it again, after I finish the first draft of my latest feature. I will also try and shift this into the comedy thread as a comedy/horror.
For now, cheers, guys.
Posted by: alffy, August 14th, 2012, 11:31am; Reply: 85
Mark (rc1107)

I understand that there are a lot of characters on the bus but I'm not sure how to get past not introducing them all at the start?  I wanted the bus to be full of grannies to make the trip worse for the guys.

I've toying with the idea of bumping off a few of the old dears early on in the story as it would add some action to the first part.  I know the start is slow, maybe too slow, and I originally wanted this to be like a zany comedy until the guys/viewers realise they are in a horror story.  This been listed as horror probably doesn't help as readers are expecting gore and blood letting early on.  What do you think about adding a few deaths in the first half and also re-listing this as a comedy?

I worked on this quite a bit but left it alone for a year or so now.  Maybe I'll delve back into it and bump up the opening half.

Cheers for checking this out, Mark.
Posted by: alffy, August 14th, 2012, 11:41am; Reply: 86
Mark (Irish eyes)

I'm glad you thought the three guys were okay, I tried to give them different characteristics but also despite their mocking of each, they did actually like each other.

The Kelly and Gav relationship was added in later drafts and I guess I still need to work on it lol.

I never realised there was so much vomiting, you're not the first to tell me that lol.

Another thing you touched on and others have to, see Mark's comments above, is the number of characters at the start.  Again, I'm not sure how to get past this.  The bus is suppose to be elderly outing for the old dears with a few additions; Susan and  Colin, and the guys.  I don't think it would be so bad on screen but I know what you mean about the constant introductions.  Any ideas?

As for the 'Sweeney Todd' theme, well again you're not the first to bring this up.  Actually this is based on a short I wrote a long time ago called 'Meat Pies'.  I wrote it for the 'Scarefest' series and I wrote it before I'd heard about the Tim Burton film.  Honest.

Cheers for the read, Mark
Posted by: Dreamscale, August 14th, 2012, 12:07pm; Reply: 87
Alffy, I always check out the comments to scripts I have read and have been keeping up on yours.

A couple comments and ideas for you...

First of all, introing a large group is perfectly fine, if you have a large group that you have to intro.  It doesn't matter if readers have trouble keeping up with who's who...it's not your problem...it's the reader's problem.

I don't remember if you start on the bus or not, but if you did, you may want to intro your 3 Protags before they get on the bus, so your readers realize that they are the main characters immediately.  That would sure help.

I agree that you should/need to get some kills or disappearances of these minor characters early on, so everyone understands where we're eventually going to go here.

But, I'll say it again, as I have a few times already - IMO, the biggest problem here is your setup, as it just doesn't make any sense that anyone would be going to this little town for a weekend, as there's no reason anyone would want to go, as there's nothing going on here and literally nothing to do.

It needs to be changed, or you'll continue to have issues with it.

I have an idea, actually that may help.

If you set this up a bit differently, everything could make sense.  I don't know where this is supposed to take place, but some details would help.  If this "coach trip" was actually going to a cool place, with a brief stopover in this town, it would make alot more sense...like some destination resort where they're going to learn some cooking skills or the like.

After a brief stop, maybe the trip is to continue but the bus breaks down (cliche, I know, but at least it would make some sense).  An/or, one of the lads hooks up with one of your cannibal town girls and they end up missing the bus, as it leaves without them.  The girl could tell them she can drive them to their destination the following day, as there's a big town party that night - something along the lines of "2001 Maniacs" or the like.

Literally anything that makes sense is what you need here.

As for the old folks, unless they come into play and have funny lines or actions, you don't necessarily need to intro them with names.  You cold just say the bus is full, half full, etc. and then intro those who are involved in some way.

Hope that helps.
Posted by: alffy, August 14th, 2012, 1:30pm; Reply: 88
Jeff, cheers for keeping a check on this.

I introduce the three protags before they get on coach but that's when I introduce the others, so maybe it's okay then?

The general consensus is to have a few kills early on and I totally agree with that.  It's a shift from my initial idea but I need to go with feedback and do it.

I'm not sure which draft you actually read, Jeff but in the latest one the coach is detoured by the local police, who are in on the villagers killing spree.    The tour guide is also in on the action.  The guys wanted to go abroad but had no money and so the coach trip is all they could muster.  How does this sound?  Is it too convenient?

I only introduce a few of the elderly folk but I do think I should bump a few of them off early doors.

Cheers for the suggestions.  One day I think I'll be happy with this, I thought I was nearly there but now I've some more good advice.  Unfortunately it'll have to wait as I don't want to force myself away from my present project.

Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Posted by: rc1107, August 14th, 2012, 2:13pm; Reply: 89
Hey Alffy.

Don't have too much time, but...

It's not really that there's a lot of characters...  It's that they're all the same.  They all need their own separate personalities.  They're all named similar generic names, like Jess, Jason, Colin, Susan, Kelly, Laura, Derek... very plain names, and we don't get to know them well enough in the story to differentiate them apart.  They need substance.  Their own personalities.  As it reads now... they're all just characters to fill up the bus and the restaurant, like extras.
Posted by: alffy, August 14th, 2012, 2:36pm; Reply: 90
Okay I get ya, Mark. I guess I've a few options with this, add to the characters which would add to my page length or cut a few adrift. More to think about when I tackle this script again lol.

Cheers, mate.
Posted by: Dreamscale, August 14th, 2012, 2:45pm; Reply: 91

Quoted from alffy
I'm not sure which draft you actually read, Jeff but in the latest one the coach is detoured by the local police, who are in on the villagers killing spree.    The tour guide is also in on the action.  The guys wanted to go abroad but had no money and so the coach trip is all they could muster.  How does this sound?  Is it too convenient?


That's all fine and dandy. Not sure if this was in the draft I read or not, but I'll ask you this...

Is the reason for their trip made clear before the start of the bus trip?  It should be, and it should make sense that both the group of lads would want to go as well as the old folks.

How long and out of the way is the detour supposed to be and why do they never leave the town then?  I mean, I assume everyone is paying good money for this trip, and I also have to assume that since it includes overnight stays somewhere that there are reservations at their supposed destination.  There needs to be a reason why they never leave the town and since there's nothing in this town to do or see, the travelers need to have some reaction to this change in plans.

Know what I'm saying?

It kind of all goes back to the classic setup/plot hole in which a bunch of 20 somethings (who have nothing in common and don't even get along) decide to take a weekend trip together to a cabin/house/camping trip/whatever and have absolutely no reason to be there, other than because that's where they're all going to be killed.

It's a poor setup and anyone who thinks about it for more than a few seconds will ask the question, why are these people doing this in the first place?

To take this 1 step further, which I honestly think you should do, you have to understand that comedy or not, there has to be a semblance of believability here.  One has to assume that this coach trip gag happens on a regular basis, meaning, all sorts of different peeps are getting taken to this town and they're all getting killed and disappearing off the face of the Earth.  It wouldn't be long before someone catches on and the gig is up.  The closer this is to a big city, the more impossible it becomes.
Posted by: alffy, August 14th, 2012, 4:21pm; Reply: 92
SPOILERS!!!!




This is my current set-up and this all explained during the story;  The guys have imminent exams at their catering college and want a brief break to relax but can't afford to go abroad so Gav books them on a rural trip to the Moors, to the annoyance of Mozza.

The coach is stop by the police and diverted to a different village but they aren't aware of this.  The tour guide is in on the episode.  The driver is new and unaware of his surroundings.  Later, Fraiser, the policeman lets on that they cover for the disappearances of previous victims.

In England, old peoples residents run outings all the time, so their presence is pretty believable.

The Protags do try and escape but are thwarted by crashing the coach.

I know it's not the best set-up but it rivals say, 'Wrong Turn', oops we got lost and broke down.  I think you could look at something like 'An American Werewolf in London' and say it too has a dodgy set-up.  Two American's hiking across the Moors and stumble upon a Werewolf.  Actually when I think about it, don't most horror's have pretty lame set-ups lol.

I've more to think about now....
Posted by: irish eyes, August 14th, 2012, 10:04pm; Reply: 93
Hey Alffy

You could have a coach load of elderly ladies getting lost on their way to bingo and have them arrive separately later in the script maybe running over a zombie/ crazy villager  or 2, you just don't have to name everybody.

All the best

Still enjoyed though

Mark
Posted by: alffy, August 15th, 2012, 4:56am; Reply: 94
Cheers, Mark.

So I've moved this to Comedy.  Agree or disagree?
Posted by: Dreamscale, August 15th, 2012, 9:26am; Reply: 95
Disagree.
Posted by: alffy, August 15th, 2012, 10:05am; Reply: 96
Bollocks lol. A lot of people have said it should be comedy rather han horror. Do I know bug Don to shift it back?  
Posted by: Dreamscale, August 15th, 2012, 10:40am; Reply: 97
Your call, Allfy.  If many think it should be here, leave it.  Just responding to your question and giving you my opinion.
Posted by: alffy, August 15th, 2012, 10:55am; Reply: 98
Think I'll leave it here for now, Jeff.  Can't be arsed to bug Don again anyway.
Posted by: irish eyes, August 15th, 2012, 2:58pm; Reply: 99
To me a lot of horrors turn out to be comedies anyway.. I would leave it in comedy.

Mark
Posted by: irish eyes, August 15th, 2012, 3:07pm; Reply: 100
Why can't it be a comedy/horror that's how Shaun of the Dead is labeled

Mark
Posted by: Mr.Ripley, August 16th, 2012, 9:24am; Reply: 101
Hey Alffy

Got to finish this.

SPOILERS

I think it belongs in the comedy section. Granted you can turn it into horror (like Texas Chainsaw Massacre), but I think comedy is best.

Sadly, I was able to predict the ending. :(. Didn't want to but it just came to me. Don't know if it was a good thing or bad thing.

I did like the comedy. Some suggestions:

The blindfold scene with Laura and Moz. Laura has a busted lip accidentally inflicted by Moz. Why not have Laura go crazy on him? He did headbutt her and ruin her face.

Close to the ending, wouldn't Russ feel angry that Gav left him for Kelly?

Something that came to me. The rock scene btw Colin and Jason. How about having Jason accidentally kill himself? He does have the knife. He can disfigure himself.

I'll think of some more stuff. But overall, you did make me laugh.

Gabe
Posted by: alffy, August 16th, 2012, 2:04pm; Reply: 102
Gabe, thanks for the suggestions and keep 'em coming if you've got any more.

Sorry you saw the end coming, hope it didn't ruin it lol.  I'm glad I made you laugh though, and perhaps it proves that this should stay in the comedy section?

Cheers, Gabe.
Posted by: marriot, August 20th, 2012, 6:34pm; Reply: 103
bfeore I start reading alffy, is the original post in the thread the latest version, or if not do you have a link to the latest v, or if something else wants reading before this could you point me where to go (and on that last one - be nice!)

;)

Maz
Posted by: alffy, August 21st, 2012, 2:57am; Reply: 104
Maz, this is the current version. Last version? Thanks in advance for checking this out. The word was it was a little slow at beginning but now I've switched it to comedy it may help.
Posted by: RJ, August 24th, 2012, 12:40am; Reply: 105
Overall I liked the story, especially the last little bit with Doris and Kelly - I think that helped top it off.

The characters reactions though, IMO, may need some reworking, ie: Kelly lies on the floor screaming with fear - for me this reaction seemed out of place, seeing she comes across as such a strong character and the situation she is in and has been around for a while, then the calmness in her reaction afterwards - her screaming with fear doesn't seem to fit. I remember feeling this way with a few other scenes too.

It takes a bit to get into the brunt of it and IMO, in some areas it was a little overwritten. As Jeff said above, I also think it'd benefit the story if it was explained more clearly why the boys were going away. I think he explains it well, so I won't carry on, just agreeing.

There are also a few little grammar issues that need to be fixed and a couple of times I think you meant to end the sentence with 'something.' and it's been written as 'somet.' Of course these are only little things that going over it again are easily fixed.

As I said; overall I did like this and it did make me laugh.
Good luck with it.

Renee
Posted by: CoopBazinga, August 24th, 2012, 1:02am; Reply: 106

Quoted from RJ
I think you meant to end the sentence with 'something.' and it's been written as 'somet.


Alffy was using British slang, Renee, which can come off confusing to non-British readers but it does give the dialogue much more realism IMO, but I do believe it should be "somert"

Why is this in the comedy section, Alffy?

Actually, no worries. I've just read back through the thread and seen why. :)
Posted by: RJ, August 24th, 2012, 2:31am; Reply: 107
lol, whoops, sorry Alffy, bad example, but there are a few other places where 'to' should be 'too' etc. (then again I'm a culprit to that myself sometimes)
Posted by: alffy, August 24th, 2012, 3:07am; Reply: 108
Renee, cheers for reading this.

I'm glad you found it funny and sorry about the mistakes.

I've had some good feedback lately and the bottom line is, it's too slow in the beginning. Originally that was my intention but I think I may go back and add some more action in the opening act.  also I'll add something to explain their weekend break.  at the moment it's just a break before their exams but I guess it's not clear enough.

I did write this with some slang in the dialogue, sorry for the confusion.
Somet or somert? Lol

I've just started a new feature but once that's done I'll give this another draft. I think that will make it revision number 5 lol
Posted by: marriot, August 25th, 2012, 6:39am; Reply: 109
"summat" you southern doodahs

Hey alffy, I have a slightly longer feedback back on my non-connected l/top but wanted to ask quickly - have you seen the League of Gentlemen episiodes "Anarchy in Royston Vasey" and "Royston Vasey and the Monster from Hell"? I had a quick scan through the feedback from others and they mention it "goes into LoG territory", but these episodes have a very similar story line (told admittedly from the locals POV).

Reading through, it was a bit of an issue for me. Soz.
Posted by: alffy, August 25th, 2012, 8:22am; Reply: 110
I caught a few episodes of LoG but never saw anything to influence me, sorry if it put you off.

'Summat', 'somet' or 'somert'.  I don't think it matters really.  And I'm not a Southerner, how dare you! lol.  I live in the North East, and have all my life, and I've always put 'somet'.

I'm currently rewriting this...again lol.

Cheers for checking it, marriot.
Posted by: marriot, August 31st, 2012, 7:27am; Reply: 111
lol no worries. You've obviously picked up some southern habits, or you'd not be writing screenplays - you'd be sending ferrets down t'pit for a bit o black pud.

And I forgot to add - someone sent me a link to a short called New Boy a week or so ago. It almost made me cry - watch it, then read Boy Racers (or remember the story if you can't be bothered trawling through the prose lol) ....

... I never saw New Boy (honest) but you'd swear I copied it. Some of the set-pieces? Flipping nearly identical. Dammit!

:)
Posted by: alffy, August 31st, 2012, 12:26pm; Reply: 112

Quoted from marriot
lol no worries. You've obviously picked up some southern habits, or you'd not be writing screenplays - you'd be sending ferrets down t'pit for a bit o black pud.



Lol, I swear we use to ride our bikes down 'the pit' as kids.  Never liked black pud though.

Posted by: leitskev, September 1st, 2012, 6:20pm; Reply: 113
On my initial visit to SS, back in Jan 2011, this was the script I read first. Didn't leave a review because I was real new to not only the site, but writing and the screen world.

Just finished a second read, and have sent my notes privately, as I do now. But I would like to plug the story, especially for anyone interested in cheeky British banter. Sometimes it went over my head...and still made me laugh!

My understanding is there will be a new draft soon if anyone wants to check it out in a few days. Anthony can update us on where that is.
Posted by: jwent6688, September 2nd, 2012, 7:07am; Reply: 114

Quoted from leitskev
Just finished a second read, and have sent my notes privately, as I do now. .


Kev,

Its a shame you feel like you've been singled out on your comments. I never saw it that way. You have a very distinct mindset about what a feature should be and I enjoy reading your take. I don't always agree, but I would like to see your notes on this because I've read it too.  Come on, you didn't let big bad Jeff scare you off from posting reviews anymore???

James

Posted by: leitskev, September 2nd, 2012, 7:41am; Reply: 115
Wasn't Jeff. Just seems better this way. I've always tried to give it honest, private notes make sure that continues. My battles with Jeff continue in other threads! Though not the NFL one. Apparently the Rams have scared him into silence.
Posted by: Dreamscale, September 2nd, 2012, 10:40am; Reply: 116
The big bad old grizzly bear is going golfing, you rat bastards.  Not sure how I manage to be the blame of so many things even when I don't say a single word, but hey, what can one do?

The only reason I can think of for Kev not posting his notes is because they must include his usual calls for character arcs and conflict, as I'm pretty sure these characters do not have them currently.

My Rams are going to suck, but I haven't seen the thread you're referring to, Kev.

Party on, gents...
Posted by: Andrew, September 2nd, 2012, 10:53am; Reply: 117
I'm not blaming you, Jeff. You boys bicker over the best ways to do things - nothing wrong with that.

I'm merely suggesting you like to drink Jaegies!

Anyway, enough of me posting non-related stuff on alf's thread.
Posted by: leitskev, September 2nd, 2012, 11:03am; Reply: 118
As I said, it really had nothing to do with Jeff, or very little. It just makes more sense for me to give the reviews privately. I had already been doing that anyway with scripts that are not posted here by members. So it's just a logical next step.

My review of Pub did not mention arcs. I did mention focusing a tiny bit more on Gav, since he is clearly more the protag. Did not suggest a change, just a sharpening.

And I thought it might make sense to make it more difficult for the shy Gav to work up the courage to approach Kelly. Gav becomes more assertive as the story progresses(which is an arc!). So why not increase that path by showing his struggle at the beginning, eventually culminating with his sticking up for himself and his friends, and Kelly.
Posted by: Dreamscale, September 2nd, 2012, 11:06am; Reply: 119
My new idea is to use invisible keystrokes for my reviews and responses.

I think it will make SS a much more lively place.   ;D ;D ;D
Posted by: Reef Dreamer, September 2nd, 2012, 1:59pm; Reply: 120

Sorry to hijack your thread alffy, I haven't reviewed your script, I suppose that's something to do with a long thread in place, but if you do a rewrite and need a check, let me know. I'll go at it with fresh eyes.

Kevin - SS will not be as good a place if you only Pm your comments. It would be a real shame, I have learnt so much reading yours and others reviews which are thankfully available to read.

Hope you think again.
Posted by: alffy, September 2nd, 2012, 2:24pm; Reply: 121
I stay off SS for 24 hours and come back to this lol.

Kev, Thanks for checking this out and sending me the helpful notes.  It's greatly appreciated.

Bill, I've just finished the rewrite but wanted to take in Kev's thoughts before posting as I thought I could work on a few things he might have picked up on.  I'll hopefully get it submitted this week.

Thanks to everyone who has checked this out and given their thoughts.
Posted by: alffy, October 11th, 2012, 9:47am; Reply: 122
For anyone interested, the new draft is up and I just spotted a typo on page 2! Gosh darn it, I knew I should have used dropbox.
Posted by: irish eyes, October 11th, 2012, 10:01am; Reply: 123
Ill check it out alffy

Mark
Posted by: leitskev, October 11th, 2012, 11:05am; Reply: 124
Hey Alfy

Took a peak at the new front 10. Runs much cleaner.

Only suggestion I have is the old ladies at the front of the bus. Why do we need all their names?

I think we really want to always look for ways to avoid giving the reader names he doesn't need. These 5 old biddies don't have any dialogue in this scene. We already have Susan and Colin, the 3 boys, the bus driver, the tour guide, and the police officer. And we have the 5 old biddies.

I just can't think of any reason why we need their names here. I think only a couple of them ever speak in the script. No reason their names could not be given then. I hope this is not being dictated by some "rule" about character introductions. The only rule that counts in a spec script is making things clear and easy for the reader.

I like the new tone setting scene with the killing. Brief and to the point.

Clean writing! Good work.
Posted by: alffy, October 11th, 2012, 1:19pm; Reply: 125
Clean writing but for the mistake on page 2 lol.  I took the names out for the old biddies and then put them back when they started turning up later on as I thought it would be easier to follow which was which.  I guess I could have left them nameless.

Mark, thanks in advance.

Should I not reply to anything quickly, I have just stuffed my laptop with something bad.  No desktop and can't fathom password to run fix.
Now only working in safe mode :(  Typical as I have a day off tomorrow and my writing plan is out the window.
Posted by: Dreamscale, October 11th, 2012, 1:42pm; Reply: 126
Alf, my advice is to always name characters when they're going to be involved in your script.

Some will call it a rule, but for me, it just makes sense to intro each and every character as soon as possible.

People always complain about there being too many characters, but to me, that's horseshit.  Readers do not need to instantly "know" each and every character, but the cool thing is that by using all CAPS when a character is first intro'd, the reader realizes this immediately.  Then, when the reader sees a name or names later that aren't CAPPED, he knows they've already been intro'd, and hopefully, their pee sized brains can remember back to who this character is.

Just my 2 cents...
Posted by: leitskev, October 11th, 2012, 2:55pm; Reply: 127
The writer spends months with his script.

If it goes into production, the director and others producing it will be closely familiar with every detail.

But the people we are trying to impress, whether it's a studio reader or a producer looking for a script, read hundreds of scripts a month if not a week. You want to flood them with unnecessary character names, knock yourself out. And when the producer puts the script down, well, darn, I guess it's his fault and his loss isn't it?

The script is not the end product, it's not the goal here, and the rules people don't get that. The end product is the film. The goal of a spec script is to find it's way into the world, to become a film, by impressing someone who is in a position to get it made.

Alfy, however you choose to go, do what you think gives this the best chance. If that means naming the characters from the start, and naming every character in your script, then do it. Whatever makes things clear and easy for the reader. Whatever keeps the story moving so he keeps reading and doesn't put it down.

Just don't do it because rules people, who don't make films generally, or even sell scripts, are making a lot of noise. They are playing a different game. They are not trying to write scripts to become films. Their primary goal seems to be to write some elusive version of the perfect script, one which conforms to all the "rules".

I recommend in this case merely describing the old ladies in the front of the bus with a couple of lines.

In the front of the bus, FIVE OLD LADIES, one knitting, one napping, the others chatting away.

Then, a few scenes later, when two of the old ladies sit at a table talking, just make that clear.

Two of the old biddies from the bus, GWEN and AGNUS, share a glass of port at a table in the corner.

            GWEN
Probably not much variety on the menu here.

             AGNUS
Anything washes down with good wine!


People that read scripts for a living DO complain about too many characters. If you're in a position to film your own movie, don't worry about it. If you need to win one of these readers over, consider it.

Again, I like the recent improvements to Pub Lunch, and I don't want your thread hijacked, so I'll drop it after this. I respect whatever you decide, and best of luck!


Posted by: Dreamscale, October 11th, 2012, 3:36pm; Reply: 128
Not too sure where that rant came from, but it's pretty clear where it's aimed.

I haven't read this new version, so my comments and advice was based on general "rules".

I don't know how much these old biddies have to do with the script and story, nor do i know if they actually speak on the bus or later.  If they do, why one wouldn't name them, is beyond me.

Does a name matter for secondary characters?  No, it doesn't, and the reader can tune them out all he wants to, or just think of them as old biddies, or Old Biddie 1, Old Biddie 2, etc.

That doesn't read very well to me and I really can't see how anyone would enjoy that kind of prose.  And in reality, not naming them actually will take up more space and words.

Not naming your characters is lazy writing, IMO.  If a character doesn't warrant a name, should they really even be included in the script?  And, of course I'm not recommending naming all characters who are simply sitting or standing around in a scene.  If they're background players, leave them be and don't worry about them.  But if they're actually a character that has character, no reason not to name them - IMO, of course.
Posted by: alffy, October 12th, 2012, 3:24am; Reply: 129
Guys, guys, calm down.  Lets all agree to disagree and says some people do things one way and others another.  Lets just man hug and move on. :)
Posted by: RJ, November 8th, 2012, 10:59pm; Reply: 130
Hey, I'm finally getting to read it. Sorry it's taken so long.

Couple of things first off: IMO the opening scene might have more impact if it was the girl running and so on then the kitchen. Might be just me, but I think it would flow better into the bus scene too. Plus I'm sure (O.S.) is written before the sound if you wanted it like that, but remember - I'm no expert.

Your second slug on page 2 has a double space below it, which to me is off putting.

IMO - Gav and Muzza's banter on the bus goes on a little long. Shorter might work better.

SUSAN, (36) perfectly style blonde hair - styled.
She reads a woman’s magazine - missing full stop.

MOZZA (O.S.)
I’d give her one, right up the
back alley.

^^liked it - rude, but good line, made me laugh. Didn't think you needed the (O.S.) here though. Maybe the way your trying to portray would work better with (V.O) - you can see the back of his head in the shot or something like that.

Patty, Gwen and Peggy continue to sleep. Edna sucks hard
on a sweet and watches excitedly out of the window. Doris
continues to knit, oblivious to the distraction. - This came across as redundant.

Pg 7: crackles into life. - crackles to life?

GAV
I was a limited budget. - It was.

^^thought the dialogue here with Russ might have fit better in the first part of the bus scene between the banter going on with Gav and Muzz. If I'm right, that's the way you wrote the first version and it worked better - IMO.

Pg 9: with adjoining beer garden. - with an.
The village is quiet and empty of locals. - drop the 'of locals'.

Gav's dialogue at the end of page 9, IMO, is enough to move onto the next scene.

Pg 10: JESS, (44), overweight and bearded, stands and stares. - doesn't explain who he is.

Pg 12: KELLY (19), the bar maid - barmaid.

Colin sips from a pint - where? At the bar or a table?

Mozza enters. - this line put me off a little cause you already play the scene out as if everyone is already in the pub - or at least that's how I saw it. Same goes for the Russ enters line.

Pg 14: Why does Russ look unimpressed then chuckles after Mozza says Gav's gonna get some?

Pg 18: When Susan says 'checked on' is it supposed to be checked in? Didn't know if this was a mistake or the way you wanted it.

Don't know whether I missed something, but on page 19 I think it needs to be added that Russ sits alone at the table because one minute Mozza is there then he's not - I know Russ asks later, but I was still confused at the start of that.

Pg 21:  hold the telephone - holds

Bit confused first off with Allerston Arm’s and Abberston Arm's - took me a couple of times to read over it and notice the l's from the b's.

JASON
Yeah, one of the old dears passed
this morning so we thought it
best.

^^ I've read it before so I know where it's going and why this is a lie but may be confusing for the first time reader and a little insignificant.

Compairing to your previous version - I like the suprise of the fingernail in the pie more than the blunt opening of the freezer to reveal the hiker in front of the butcher. The way this one is written is seeming more like a horror to be honest.

The next scene with Colin and Susan doesn't playout right, IMO - Susan gives in so quickly and easily that it doesn't make any sense that she went in the first place, when she already didn't want to go. You could probably even cut that to have a short scene where Susan is walking back by herself, annoyed and muttering to herself.

Pg 24: Bit confused with the whole INT. to EXT. thing - weren't they dining inside to start - or did I miss something?

Kind of felt like Kelly's lie was too honest - if you get what I mean? Maybe just 'special meat' or 'a different kind of meat' and the same reaction from Mozza with the whole 'We'll eat anything."

pg 27: Mozza eyes his two friends. - why?

Pg 29: 'Fucking weirdos the lot of ‘em - missing full stop.

SUSAN
Excuse, is this way back to the
village.

^^Excuse me? is this the way back to the village?

I can't get too nit picky from here, because I don't have the time - sorry - family commitments.

The room scene where Russ comes in to find Mozz and Gav - doesn't feel right that Gav is still sitting there; not in a hurry to leave if Mozz has already told him - kind of feels like Mozz should be the one entering and frantically telling them - in this scene more panic needs to be happening.

Pg 74: EXT. COUNTRYSIDE - FIELD - DAY - didn't think this slug was necessary. The scene would flow better without it because it's kind of continuous as with the slug on 76.

After the bus crash it seems to flow better and become more comedy/horror again - like the other version - liking this more.

Kelly's reaction in this does come across more suited.

All in all, as I've said previously I liked the story, you have something here, but from what I remember the last version was quicker and tighter than this one.
I think all the last version needed was the difference in the start - which you've done with this - and the reaction of Kelly - which you've also done in this version.

Hope this helps and that I haven't been too harsh in any areas ( I don't mean to be) :)

Renee.
Posted by: alffy, November 10th, 2012, 1:11pm; Reply: 131
Hey Renee, that was harsh!  Only joking, thanks for reading this again.

Sorry some things worked for you nd others didn't.

I've decide to leave this alone now as I will never finish my new feature otherwise lol.

Off topic but, I continued reding A League Undisclosed but lost the notes when my comp knacked.  Do you want me to read over the second half again and give some thoughts?  How did things go with it by the way?
Posted by: Kyle, October 11th, 2013, 3:16pm; Reply: 132
This is my first post on simply scripts. I realise there hasn't been any action on this thread in almost a year but it's the first script I’ve read on the site so thought I’d leave a quick review. I really enjoyed it! I won't comment on the formatting because I’m relatively new to screen writing (a complete novice). What I will comment on is the story, characters and dialect.
Overall, I enjoyed pretty much everything about it. I love British films, especially comedy/horrors. The two films that came to mind as I was reading it was Severance and The Cottage. The characters were loveable, realistic and funny, although I thought the Russ character could do with a bit more depth. Mozza stuck out for me. I found myself imagining Jack O’Connell playing the part. I could relate as I have friends similar to his character (all right in small doses, can do your head in fairly quickly but at their core a good person). The dialogue didn't feel forced and was full of banter which I like. If this script made it into a film I would definitely be one of the first to go and see it. I don't know if the writer is still about to read this but good job! I hope to have my first script up in the nearish-future if you'd like to give it a read. It will probably be a good example of 'how not to write a script' but we've all got to start somewhere, right? Thanks again for the thoroughly enjoyable read.  
Kyle
Posted by: alffy, October 12th, 2013, 10:15am; Reply: 133
Hey Kyle, thanks for the read mate.

I'm glad you enjoyed this and I'd be happy to read over your script.  Let me know with a pm when it's posted and I'll check it out.

Funnily enough I had Jack O'Connell in mind for Mozza too.  I actually started with a Danny Dyer type character but obviously he's too old now so I firmly wrote his character for a O'Connell type actor.  

I've watched, a liked, Severance and The Cottage and they did influence me a bit too.  I just wanted to write a British comedy horror flick and this is what I came up with.  It started as a short on here but I expanded it.

Again, thanks for the read Kyle and welcome to Simplyscripts.
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