I recently received an e-mail from a writer/producer who is interested in buying my script to use as his.  He wants to know a price but I truthfully have no idea what to tell him.  The script is a comedy and is 120 pages.  I'm very excited but also nervous at the same time as I have no idea how to handle this situation.  I don't want to scare him away by asking for too much but I also don't want to low ball myself.  I'm a first time writer, what should I ask for?

1.5 to 3% of the budget is pretty common.

3% of the budget plus 3% of the back end is a fair price.

He wants to "use as his"?  What does this mean?  He just wants to produce your script -- or he wants to put his name on the script?  Anyway, I find this all very fishy (especially since you're a first-time writer).  

But try to get a feel for where this guy is coming from.  You need to find out what sort of budget is he's working with.  

You could ask for 3% of the budget or you could ask for WGA minimum (roughly $75,000).  He might tell you, "That's out of my ballpark."  So find out what is in his ballpark.  

He might also offer an option deal.  A lot of ways to go on this.  You might take a grand or two (or more) and an option period of six months to a year.  I wouldn't go any longer than that...unless he's offering a lot of money.

If it turns out to be substantial deal and substantial money (doubtful, but certainly possible), get yourself an entertainment attorney.  And of course, if he asks YOU to front any cash, run away.

If the budget is under $2mil and you are an unknown writer you can expect between $10k and $47k (47k is the WGA recommendation) but that depends on you being a member and the producer being a signatory.

If the budget is over $2mil the writer’s fee should be at least $87k. (Again the WGA minimum).

You may get a back end deal of between 1.5% and 3% of the net profits but as only 7% of all movies make a fiscal profit, (not including tax credits) don’t expect any income from that source.

Getting fee based on a percentage of the budget only works for big budget project and where the writer has a status and prestige.

The biggest fear in you post is the statement “he wants it as his”.

NEVER give your writing credit away unless you are paid mega bucks and I mean mega. Six figure at least.

It is your calling card to the next deal.

I’ve had projects rejected for funding because I do not have a published writing credit at the moment.

Although I’ve been commissioned by producers and directors all over the world. Work as a story editor for a prize winning Hollywood director. Have three scripts at different stages of production, lecture on the art of screen playwriting and am represented by a legend in the industry.

Ron, when trying to negotiate a "back end" deal, is it possible to recieve percentage points on "gross" profit or revenue?  I realize that Hollywood accounting kills almost all net profits, but it appears quite obvious to me that when a movie grosses close to double its budget, it did well and it made a big profit for someone.  

Nothing is as it appears either with the budget or box office receipts.

Anything is possible in negotiations but generally if it sounds too good to be true it normally is.

Net profits are the real profits everything else is fiction.

A Profit is after everything else has been paid for. That includes crew, marketing, distribution, interest on loans, investors, insurance and anything else.

When a film grosses double its budget, it lost money.

A movie that costs $50mil and has a box office of $120mil makes a $10mil loss unless it has 30% plus tax credits to balance it’s expenditure.

Only huge stars get points on gross - I am not sure I have ever heard of a screenwriter managing it, but if they have they'd have to be someone like Joe Eszterhas!

Frankly, with the creative accounting that goes on everywhere (not just in Hollywood Film Companies), it's always best to get the money up front!

A Bird in the Hand is Worth Two in a Bush.

Ok, Ron, so what's your take on the following movies and their production budgets vs. grosses...

Whiteout - Production Budget $35 Million.  Gross to date (including international $11 Million

Pandorum - Production Budget $40 Million.  Gross to date, including international $6 Million

Sorority Row - Production Budget $12.5 Million.  Gross to date $14 Million

Jennifer's Body - Production Budget $16 Million,  Gross to date, including international $14 Million.  I heard that the Producers of Jennifer's Body said that they weren't concerned with the weak opening, because of the "low" Production Budget, it would be a profitable film.

Based on what you're saying, these are all losers and 2 of them are major catastrophes.

Quoted from Dreamscale Ok, Ron, so what's your take on the following movies and their production budgets vs. grosses... Whiteout - Production Budget $35 Million.  Gross to date (including international $11 Million Pandorum - Production Budget $40 Million.  Gross to date, including international $6 Million Sorority Row - Production Budget $12.5 Million.  Gross to date $14 Million Jennifer's Body - Production Budget $16 Million,  Gross to date, including international $14 Million.  I heard that the Producers of Jennifer's Body said that they weren't concerned with the weak opening, because of the "low" Production Budget, it would be a profitable film. Based on what you're saying, these are all losers and 2 of them are major catastrophes.

Jeff, "Hollywood Accounting" is just the term the movie industry uses for the creative accounting that goes on in many businesses around the world. Quite often making a profit is bad for business.

Just like in Sales organisations where stupid staff negotiate a cut of profits as an incentive it is in the companies interest to ensure profits are as low as possible come the end of the FY. The smart sales people take their incentives up front as a percentage of the Gross Profit or the revenue.

Very often, even big movies fail to make a profit, but everyone who matters still get paid and the studios get their money back in various other ways. Say the department who provide lightbulbs to the production make a huge mark-up on lightbulbs. This department is still owned by the studio and thus makes a tidy profit but in terms of the particular movie they have to pay for these lightbulbs and thus a huge cost taken off the balance sheet.

At the end of the day it is virtually impossible to know how much money a movie has actually made a studio, you cannot believe a word they say. I would say however that there are very few movies that actually lose money, much less than the studios would have you think anyway. This is why Hollywood history is littered with lawsuits by writers and directors trying to claim shares of profits that the studios deny exist.

Obviously you are having difficulties with the “Dream Scale”

Whiteout

Estimated Budget $40mil

Marketing cost unpublished but allow 15% of budget $6mil.

Opening Weekend Box-office Gross $4.9mil

Total Gross to date $9.8mil = normal revenue from opening weekend 60% to distributor 40% to cinema.

The distributor deducts their costs and fees so using the above as an example net revenue to date about $4.9mil. (current figs from IMDb-Pro).

I’m not going to do the arithmetic for the others.

Normal statistics indicate that revenue reduces after opening month considerably. So it may take five years and good DVD sales to breakeven.

I agree with you, Murphy.

IMO, anytime a movie is made for under $10 Million (or around there), and grosses north of $15 Million, eveyone is happy, everyone makes money, and the movie should be considered a success.

Now, on the other end of the scale, are my first 2 examples...Whiteout and Pandorum, made for $35 and $40 Million, respectively.  Neither will make close to even half of that amount in their theatrical runs.  When all is said and done, including DVD, rentals, cable rights, etc., they may come close to what was originally put up, but they'll still be hugely in the red, and both will be rightfully so considered failures, adn bad investments for all invovled.

I can't understand why either was greenlighted for anywhere near those budgets, as it's very obvious (in my mind) that they didn't have a chance to recoup that kind of money, let alone make a profit.  And, also, neither movie looked like it cost anywhere near that amount of money.

3% of the budget sounds reasonable although you could push for 5%. If you're talking a flat fee, I'd ask for one or two grand. You could probably get away with two considering your script is on the longer side. Personally, I wouldn't worry about any figures put out by the WGA as I doubt many producers with that kind of budget browse the site. Not in my experience anyway. But you never know...

Also, the phrase "to use as his" sounds strange to me. Is that supposed to mean his name is going to show up on the writer's credit? I'd look into this.

Sometimes it is the Dream to lose money.

Ron, I think I do undertand the "Dream Scale", but your original comments confused me, in that you said a $50 Million movie that grosses $120 Milllion would lose $10 Million.

That does not make sense to me.  In my mind, that would be a scenario in which everyone would be very happy.

So, let me put it this way...how much would a $10 Million movie need to gross World Wide) in its theatrical run to be considered a success?  Am I crazy to assume a $15 Million gross would be considered a success?

I wish I would be able to provide numbers, but I can't. All I can say is that having a budget for our reality show is a complete nightmare. I don't see how anyone can make any sense out of it. Different people, investors, creators, writers, producers, different production companies and so on and so on all get paid different amounts and get different deals. Different percentages of net and gross profits, different salaries, union, non union....  It's soooo complicated you have now idea.

I do believe though, that the "important" people for any project do come out ahead, unless the film/TV show totally bombs...

I once read that every Hollywood film of a certain level spend the same amount on marketing as the cost of the film - so a $50m film would actually cost $100m, so in your scenario Jeff, it might make a small profit.

Of course, nowadays, DVDs and other markets pay a huge part in making a film a success or not, so that it's initial theatrical run is not always seen as reliable indicator of it's profitability.

In the UK, the Writer's Guild minimum for a film budgeted under £750,000 is £18,900 - but this is paid in installments starting at £1,350 and obviously whether you get the full amount can depend on circumstances including whether you are still attached to the project when it makes it to principal photography!

Currently, filming of a script of mine is scheduled for March 2010. The targeted release date is projected for November 2010 but expected to be January 2011.

I finished the script in December 2005 and the production budget is $4.5mil.

Some actors, a DOP and the director are attached and the producer has a cinema release and DVD  distribution contract for the US, Canada and Europe and the distributors are a co-producer.

The target cinema and DVD income before a profit is $18mil.

But in the budget, which has been raised, everyone receives their fees on the first day of principle photography.

About 30% of the budget comes from tax credits.  

Here are a few fighting statistics a non-studio film that grosses $18mil brings in an income of about $8mil.

Legal fees account for 25% of the budget.

Currency exchange rates delayed shooting of my script by eighteen months.

The original producer rejected a deal with another producer I introduce him to, who was willing to raise the budget to $15mil and bring on board two top ‘A’ listed stars because it would push the target required for him to make a profit to $80mil gross.

The time taken up with finance and distribution negotiations adds to the final cost of making the movie, which is why until first day of principle photography, every thing hangs by a thread and can be cancelled at a moments notice.

Walt Disney Company announced last Friday it was restructuring Miramax in a move that will cut the number of films the specialty division puts out annually from the current level of six to eight down to around three.

“Disney has a first-rate marketing and distribution team operating globally,” TWDS president Alan Bergman said. “This restructuring maximises operating efficiencies and provides significant cost savings while allowing Miramax to focus on its greatest strength; the creation of high-quality entertainment.”

The film industry is one of the most vulnerable there is and to make money in it is as finer line as that between madness and genius.

I was offered 40,600 but am awaiting more details as he has to figure out if he can shoot my script with the budget he has in place.

Quoted from Plummer25 I was offered 40,600 but am awaiting more details as he has to figure out if he can shoot my script with the budget he has in place.

Pesos? Euros? Dollars? F'n take it.

Do they have any verifiable credits online?

Yeah I looked him up online and spoke to him twice.  He seems legit and loves our script.  He stated even if it doesn't fit into his plan for his 1st movie, he wants to do it for his 2nd film.  I'm excited and nervous at the same time as there are still a couple question marks.  I'm more excited that someone actually like the script.

My only advice would be to get some money up front. Let's face it, I could email you and tell you I will pay you £40,000 - it doesn't mean I have it!

As to whether he has verifiable credits - he could have won an Oscar, it still doesn't make him trustworthy!

Just call me a cynic - but I don't trust producers or directors!

If he wants buy your script, a purchase should mean payment before he goes into production of your script and you release title.

Then as far as you are concerned you’ve been paid and as much as you would like to see your script produced it does mean you’ve been paid.

The reality of the industry is less than 17% of all scripts purchased are produced.

If he can’t pay you up front then offer him an option for 10% of the writer’s fee he has promised you with payment of the balance of the fee on first day photography.

The purpose of the option is to protect you both, as in reality if he likes your script someone else might like it also, but under an option you are obliged to cease marketing your script and he has to state a purchase figure and a purchase time frame.

If he doesn’t conform to the agreement then the script reverts to you so you can offer it to somebody else and you keep the option payment.

At the moment you sound like a couple of amateurs pissing in the wind.

Ron, obviously he's an amateur, or he wouldn't have started this thread in the first place, asking for help.  He also doesn't have the knowledge to put togther an option or any kind of legal agreement.  He needs help!

OK, so Plummer, I'm confused here, and I want to help you, if this is a serious situation.

How did this person come across your script?  Did he offer you this amount of money out of the blue, or was there discussion about it going on for awhile?  Where are you located and where is the "buyer" located?  have you met in person?

What is the budget of the film going to be?

$40,600 is nothing to piss away...it's serious money, but if this is somehow going to be a movie with a budget north of $5 Million, it's not enough.

Whatever the deal, you need an agent or lawyer before you agree to anything.

Sorry to say, but the fact that this guy is tossing 40 grand on the table right off the bat tells you he is not to be taken seriously, Plummer.

I am just telling you straight.

He sounds like Kazzurie -- if anybody remembers that guy -- who got people around here all worked up with talk of $25 million budgets -- and in the end he probably had two nickles to rub together to keep himself warm.

Why do people feel the need to do this kind of stuff and play people this way?  Maybe it makes them feel important?

Who knows -- anyways, sounds like you got one.  

It should probably be said that any reputable Producer (if there is such a thing! :)) would most likely want to deal with your agent/lawyer rather than be emailing you direct!

Also, this being the age of the internet fake, the fact that he says he is so and so does not mean he is!

Of course, tomorrow you may tell us that you've just had $40,000 paid into your bank account - which will make us all look a bit foolish!

Thanks for all the replies guys!  I really appreciate it.  He is supposed to call me back sometime this week so I'll keep you updated.  I think I'll get a lawyer involved if I ever see a contract because it sounds like you've all seen this before.  He is a producer/writer/director who is in the process of making his first full length script.  He ran into trouble as he is not going to be able to finish writing his script and needs to start shooting soon.  Not exactly sure where he found my script as I have it several different places.
I'll do my homework on this as it sounds too good to be true but still at least someone's reading it and liking it.  I can't get anyone to read it on here.  LOL.

Plummer, is your script posted in here?  If so, what is it?  I'll give it a quick look and give you some quick feedback, as well as whether or not IMO anyone would offer $40,600 for it.

Let me know.  Feel free to PM me if you prefer.

Quoted from Plummer25 I'll do my homework on this as it sounds too good to be true but still at least someone's reading it and liking it.  I can't get anyone to read it on here.  LOL.

How many scripts have you read and reviewed on here Plummer? not many I would guess with a total of 5 posts to your name.

Getting people to read your scripts is the easiest thing in the world to do, just read theirs.

Quoted from Dreamscale Ron, I think I do undertand the "Dream Scale", but your original comments confused me, in that you said a $50 Million movie that grosses $120 Milllion would lose $10 Million. That does not make sense to me.  In my mind, that would be a scenario in which everyone would be very happy. So, let me put it this way...how much would a $10 Million movie need to gross World Wide) in its theatrical run to be considered a success?  Am I crazy to assume a $15 Million gross would be considered a success?

It's almost an impossible question to answer because it all depends on how much money has been spent, on what and what the stipluations of the contract are.

Bear in mind that out of that gross figure (which is just the sum amount of money spent on tickets) there are the theatres takings, the distributors fees (as much as 30-40% of gross) distribution expenses (laboratory costs, printing costs, advertising expenses, an
added 8-12 percent advertising overhead charge, licenses, foreign
duties, taxes, checking costs, collection costs, guild residuals,
association dues and
assessments, translation and subtitle costs, reissue (or re-release)
costs, film reformatting costs, shipping costs, copyright registration
costs, insurance premiums, litigation expenses (if any) and royalty
costs.

The list goes on.

Then there is interest on negative cost (they charge interest on the actual production of the film until it is paid off), overbudget penalties and alll sorts of hidden costs that they will try and introduce.

Quoted from Dreamscale Plummer, is your script posted in here?  If so, what is it?  I'll give it a quick look and give you some quick feedback, as well as whether or not IMO anyone would offer $40,600 for it. Let me know.  Feel free to PM me if you prefer.

The only script of his on here, I believe, is "Tickets, Please" in the Comedy section.

Yep, I found it.  I don't want to be an ass or anything (like I usually am), but there are problems galore, starting with the tile itself. It's listed as "Ticket's please" on the title sheet, which is obviously a typo, as it should be "Tickets please", as you listed here.

Plummer, if someone wants to give you $40,600, or even $460 for this script, immediately sign the paperwork and laugh your ass off on the way to the bank.

No Offence Plummer, but i think either somebody is winding you up or you are winding us up. I have just skimmed through your script  and being brutally honest I cannot see anything there that would make me believe someone was prepared to offer you $40k for it.

Niles

Some producers are happy to deal with writers directly and if they are Indies with small budgets, they won’t want to deal with the experienced greedy agent who often cares more for his commission than his client.

I’ve done deals above the figure quoted, and I have elected not to have an agent although I’ve been approached by some.

I do have a friend who is a very experience and well respected Hollywood producer/writer who represents me.

He used to be a literary agent, so he knows his way around but I prefer to negotiate directly and then leave it to others to work out the legal side of the deal, and my producer friend advices me as I need.

I handled my first two commissions, my first editing job and first option directly with the producers or directors involved.

While some Producers may be happy to converse directly with a writer in this way, I would be highly suspicious of them - and in my humble opinion (not, obviously, being as successful as you are) I think that a writer would be well advised not to speak to anyone without the support of an agent or lawyer.

I would suggest that a reputable Producer would also want legal cover for themselves, in case of claims that they stole someone's work or failed to pay figures claimed.

As you will no doubt acknowledge, even the most successful writer can find themselves on the receiving end of a contract that is to their disadvantage. (They get screwed, in other words!).

Niles

I can understand why you might be suspicious of producers and directors contacting you directly and in that, there lies a problem.

Unless you have had some success achieve on your own most agents and in particular the better ones will not represent you until you have had a modicum of success on your own.

So when you find you are breaking the ice you have to decide to dive in or stand on the sidelines wondering.

If serious money is involved just employ an entertainment lawyer.

As for producers covering themselves most use a release form before reading or accepting a script.

The thing to realise is there are as many want-to-be producers as want-a-be writers and often it is the blind leading the blind.

Surprisingly most producers and certainly most directors are not looking to rip anyone off, they are just looking for great screenplays that fit the genre that appeals to them in the budget they have or can raise.

And most realise if they find a truly great screenplay, hopefully the writer can produce more than one, so why would they kill the goose that can possibly lay the golden egg.

Fear of moving forward is what holds most people back.  

I am fairly new to these boards and website and will read some scripts and give honest feedback.  I'm actually in the process of reading one now and giving some feedback.  The script is Tickets Please, the draft up here on the board is the "rough" draft I made while back.  A few things have been changed but its mostly the same one viewed by the producer that I've been talking to.  Thanks for the early and honest feedback.  I'm still waiting to hear back from the guy and will e-mail hm by the end of the week if I haven't heard from him.

Believe me guys, I am as skeptical as you are and since this is really the first time I'm doing this type of thing I really appreciate all the advice.  I'm starting to doubt if this guy is really the real deal or not.