Say your script WAS stolen...

That is to say, a basic concept from a script of yours is rewritten and redesigned to please a major production studio.  It is made into a successful blockbuster, or a failed blockbuster, or a modest indie film.

You are:

A)  Outraged that someone else took ONE OF YOUR IDEAS.  You sue, money wins, you lose.  Heck, you sue, you win, and win lots of money.

B)  Outraged that someone else took ONE OF YOUR IDEAS.  On the other hand, you have a thousand more, and at now there is a film out there that is saying what you were trying to say with the script.  Life goes on.

C)  Flattered.

D)  Irrevocably scarred and give up on screenwriting forever.

Just curious.  There seems to be a lot of talk about stolen scripts.  It happens.  Who cares?

I was talking to the guy who started the Infernal Affairs project (and receives no credit).  He didn't seem too bothered.  Heck, what if a good friend of Wes Craven's hadn't casually mentioned to Wes that he was thinking about a horror film with a ghoul who kills teenagers in their dreams?

Is ownership of -- and credit received for -- art more important than its realization for an audience?

I wouldn't be happy. But surely if someone stole one of your ideas it'd be your own fault for not taking the proper precautions to protect yourself.

Lars Ulrich stole the name Metallica. Way back when, one of his friends wanted to start a metal magazine and he had list of potential names for the magazine which he showed Ulrich to get his feedback. Metallica was on the list. Ulrich spotted it but told his friend to go with one of the other names. Ulrich then called his band Metallica and the rest is history. Which is ironic when you consider that Metallica Inc sued Napster for allowing people to share their music over the net.

It's an interesting question. The point for me, though, is this: is it your first idea, the one that will potentially launch your career, or are you already an established name who has ideas to spare?

Yes, scripts get stolen. And I understand what you're staying that if you get to see your idea onscreen, then there must be satisfaction in that. But if I had an idea stolen that went on to be a successful movie, and ten years later I was still struggling to break into the industry, I'd be bitter. I couldn't help myself.

B. Ideas are a dime a dozen. And this sort of thing happens all the time, mostly by coincidence. I can't even count how many ideas I have had that I've ended up seeing on television or in the movies. And it never means you can't still use the idea...you just have to put a different spin on it.

There's nothing to say that the idea of the film you saw is actually yours. As Cornetto said, they're a dime a dozen, and honestly, there aren't that many of them. I had an idea once for a guy who had multiple personalities. He was hooked up to a machine which allowed his doctor to walk through his mind and sort out his various personalities to cure him. A year or so later, The Cell came out which is about a doctor who hooked a guy up to a machine to walk through his mind's various facets to determine where he'd kept his victim before they died. There were so many similarities between the ideas that it was uncanny, but there was no way they had taken my idea. It wasn't on the net or anything. It was coincidence.

Besides, ideas are fair game. You can copyright a script or a treatment, but the idea can be snagged and written into something completely different. Now this doesn't stop studios from not reading unsolicited scripts because they're afraid of Joe Failure from Minnesota saying, "Hey my character's name is John too. They stole my idea!" All you can say is "I thought of that too...dang it."

I had an idea for a movie in 2004 that was very similar to the concept of Hostel. Once I found out about Hostel, I was devastated and tossed the idea to the side. After I saw Hostel, I realized I could do way better and wrote the script anyway.

In short, if someone makes a movie with the same idea as one of your own, 99.9% of the time, it's just coincidence. After that, you can either move on or write something better. Even if your script was actually stolen, too many people with no case whatsoever have already sued studios and ruined your credibility. Frankly, if that were the case, I don't think money could appease me. But how often are scripts actually stolen and produced into universally recognizable works?

Bottom line. Protect your shit legally and write the best you can.

I'd agree that ideas are a dime a dozen... hell, even scenes are a dime a dozen and nothing you do except the way you arrange it is actually yours.

I saw ideas I had all over the place and they used it before i thought it up (Like Entourage) and you can't really do anything about it except change your stuff or possibly get the "You stole this or it is like that"

South Park said it best "The Simpson's did it"

Quoted from mcornetto

I put three exclamation marks and a smiley on Michael's words. !!! ;D

Sandra

Quoted from Sandra Elstree.

I put three exclamation marks and a smiley on Michael's words. !!! ;D

Sandra

And I counter your three exclamation marks and a smiley with one *.

* A foot note:

Remember it's not the size of your idea that matters, it's how you use it.

Quoted from Old Time Wesley

That has happened to me a few times... it's more annoying than anything. I was writing my Two and a Half Men spec, while watching the actual show.

I wrote this joke, laughed, was happy with it. A few seconds later, that exact joke (worded slightly differently, but extrememly similar) came on the show. Grrr, annoying.

Let us not forget the words penned by (or spoken by or at least stolen from) King Solomon of Israel some 3,000 years ago: "There is nothing new under the sun."

Quoted from George Willson

Let us not forget the words penned by (or spoken by or at least stolen from) King Solomon of Israel some 3,000 years ago: "There is nothing new under the sun."

Did he have DVDs?

Quoted from rendevous

Did he have DVDs?

He didn't need them. :)

Sandra

A lot of the problem arises because of the misconception that coincidences are rare. We live in a world with over six billion people and we are all a lot more alike than we are different. Coincidences are far more common than most people realize.

The fact that we are so much alike while individually experiencing feelings of being different or unique is something con artists have been aware of for a long time. Psychics for example use general readings to obtain more distinct information through feedback and essentially just feed you information you “gave” them.

The erroneous feelings that coincidences are rare are what lead to all kinds of beliefs in things based on “personal experiences” rather than demonstrable facts. Just look at the myriad of imaginary things that humans believe in already: gods, angels, demons, souls, spirits, heaven, hell. The list goes on and on of things people believe in as fact when there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to corroborate them.

This is the same phenomenon people usually experience when they think their ideas have been stolen. Most often it’s pure coincidence. In this business, people are constantly trying to create ideas. The same ones are going to get recycled and new ones are going to get generated. Some of the new ones are going to be identical because they will have been arrived at by the same thought processes.

The best thing to do if you think your idea has been stolen is to calm down and be logical about it. Realize that it’s very possible they thought of the idea the same way you did. Ask yourself if it’s even possible for them to have taken it. If it is, ask yourself what evidence there is of it. If you don’t have enough to sue, then you’re probably wasting your time getting upset about it.

Breanne

Be exceptional... Don't worry about what idea is taken and what idea isn't taken. As a writer you're not as strong as your best script or idea, rather the vault of material you have or are capable of coming up with.

Do you think McDonald's got scared when Burger King said they were coming to market with burgers? No... A burger is a burger. It's how you make it and what you do that the other guys don't do that makes it different.

If your work is good enough you have a place in the business...

Quoted from Baltis.

Ditto! ... and reality is a big place and there are a lot of suns to be under.

Sandra

A short - flattered.

A feature - pissed off...

A few years ago I wrote an adaptation of Henry James' "Turn of the Screw" - well, about half of it anyway before I decided it wasn't working.

I framed the story by having the heroine in a mental institution, telling her tale to the Doctor there - so we were not sure if she had been driven mad by her ordeal, or whether what we were seeing was a reflection of her unstable mind.

This was the best bit of the script for me, and I kept thinking over the years that it would be worth reviving and trying again.

Last night I saw the BBC's trailer for their Christmas version of "Turn..." - which starts in an asylum with the unfortunate heroine telling a Doctor her tale.

Bugger.

Not happy but not angry either. What can you do?

Life goes on.

Ok, so you’ve written the best screenplay ever. It’s so damn good, the word masterpiece doesn’t do it justice. It’s the Matrix, Nightmare on Elm Street meets Gone With The Wind.

It’s original, has blistering pace and the characters are so deep you could drown in them.

The audience are going to laugh, cry, do two backward somersaults and a twist and still leave ultimately satisfied.

So what? I mean it’s not like anyone is ever going to see it. If they do, you can guarantee your names not going to be on it.

Neo’s going to become Theo, Trinity – Virginity and Vivien Leigh is going to discover that tomorrow is just another fucking day.

The two guys under contract with the studio are the ones going to the premier and spending the next six months telling the world where the idea came to them. The only ones who ever really get in, are those with a pass and guess what? You don’t got one.

If you’re lucky, and I mean the sort of luck where you fall down a mine shaft and come up with a diamond stuck up your ass lucky - you might just get a Based On.

You’ve registered your script with the WGA, CIA, FBI and the Space Core - just in case. It won’t make any difference. Everyone will tell you that ideas are a dime a dozen and coincidence is the rule and not the exception.

PLEASE! Somebody tell me I’m wrong.

You are.

Yes, there are nightmare stories, but there are plenty of films (not necessarily the blockbusters, but even some of those) that are the work of a writer who has not had his script ripped to pieces, rewritten, stolen or lost in the vision of others. And I don't just mean writer-directors either.

"American Beauty" is one that springs to mind. It was such a hot script that Alan Ball - by no means a big name in film then or now - was able to keep a strong measure of control over it.

And there is money to be made - or at least a good living - without sacrificing principles or control over your work or selling out to the devil.

If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't still be hoping and dreaming and wishin' to be a writer 28 years after I wrote my first story outline.

Now then, let's see... I mean I really want to believe that and sure, some guy wins the lottery every week. I mean that's why so many people play it right!. I also get your point about Alan Ball. But does anyone have a story of a plumber, carpenter, some guy who cleans windows, making it to the big silver screen. Alan Ball was little known, but still known. He had conections. I'm not saying they were great - just there.

You see Nile I like your writing. And I can't believe in 28 years you haven't written something worthy of an independant, at least. So where is it?

I'm new to this particular party, so I could be way off base. I'm just not convinced.

The writer of "The 51st State" was working in an off licence when his script was picked up for production. Mind you, maybe he should have stayed there, having seen it!

It's not much Nile, but I'll take it. Hope springs eternal after all.

I remember him being interviewed on TV at the time.

Two weeks after selling the script he also got a book deal!

But I haven't heard much from him since.

To quote the Book of Ecclesiastes (or The Byrds, if you prefer):

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven

Or - every dog has his day.

Or - All good things come to he who waits.

The fact that yesterday I did not write, does not mean I will not today.

The fact that last week I did not sell a screenplay, does not mean I will not next week.

This time next year, Rodders, we'll be millionaires.

Well then, let's hope we find that watch soon. That's if we can sell it and nobody steals it. Oh, God! I'm at it again.

Question about copyright that I think is relevant to those living outside the U.S.

I know about WGA and all that. However, being English and living in Ireland that ain't really suitable. As far as I know copyright exists on your work automatically.

However I've got sites asking for copyright serial and record numbers.

Anyone down my neck of the woods have any good cost effective of doing this?

RV

Within the UK and EU, copyright exists from the moment of creation of the work, without the need to register it with anyone. In fact, as the US is a signatory of the Berne Convention, this is also the case with America!

Registering is simply a safety measure for the paranoid writer, exploited by the unscrupulous and greedy!

I understand, though may be wrong, that a non-US citizen may register their work with the Library of Congress, provided the work is in English. You may like to look at there website.

As there is no legal requirement to register your work, I doubt there is any standardised serials numbers or the like, unless they refer to codes given by organisations like the Library of Congress or the Screenwriter's Guild.

The British Writing Unions may also be worth approaching for advice on the matter.

I'm dealing with Inktip and the like so that Library of Congress sounds the job. I'll have a look at their website shortly.

I'm not fond of unions. But then again I wasn't fond of Thatcher. Now, that reminds me...

Quoted from Frankie Boyle

£4 million pounds for a state funeral for Margaret Thatcher? For that amount, you could buy everyone in Scotland a shovel and they'd dig a hole so feckin' deep we'd able to deliver to Satan himself.

Many thanks Niles. I'll look into that.

You may be interested, Malcolm, in the story of James V Simpson - not exactly a "plumber or window cleaner", but he is a Canandian screenwriter, who after film school spent 10 years trying to make it as a screenwriter, staying in Canada as well, rather than moving to LA or anything - and he sold his first screenplay for $400,000 three years ago - the film, "Armoured" (sorry, "Armored") is about to be released, with his name still firmly attached!

The screenplay is available online if you'd like to take a look for yourself and see what you think.

Quoted from James V Simpson

"It's the kind of Hollywood story Hollywood sells -- some kid gets plucked from obscurity and gets his movie made"

I posted this link yesterday. Armored came out earlier this week. The guy was a regular member at the forums at DD. http://twoadverbs.blogspot.com/2009/12/selling-armored.html

And I applaud him Niles. I really do. A guy like that gives us all hope. However, again with the film school. I read somewhere recently, BBC Writers Room I think; about how one of the regular writer’s there, found his way into the business. What he was basically saying was, that the few contacts that he had actually made, had proved to be invaluable. A friend of a friend, of a friend.

I’m not saying he didn’t have to be a good writer, he obviously was. But I can’t help wondering if his career would have got off the ground without them.

Introductions are a huge part of the industry. I’ve read scripts on this site, and I’m not just talking shorts, that would be good if produced. Some maybe, even a little better than that.

Perfection seems to be the pursuit of the wannabies and not the Pros. We criticize redundancy, passive verbiage and action lines; yet some of the produced scripts are riddled with them. Assuming that no one’s going to put in redundant lines in production, you’ve got to think they were in the original script.

Oh, and thank's to Me and you... Ah, you know what I mean. I will check the script out.

Of course, it is a question of what you want. It is true there are some very good scripts here, but not all of the writers want to be professionals, they write because they enjoy it, more like a past time than anything else.

I wonder how many of the people here on SS want to be serious, professional, screenwriters? There is a thread specifically for this very topic, and it makes interesting reading.

It should also be noted that the best way to get somewhere is probably not to approach film companies - though I have done that (and will no doubt continue to do so), but to get an Agent - they are the ones with the contacts, the foot in the door.

Pia - what's "DD"?

---
I like the way Simpson refers to "Pre-Professional Screenwriters" in that interview - much better than "Aspiring" which I have never liked. Might adopt this myself!

My thoughts on this whole mess --> It "CAN" happen to you... Just bank on it happening to someone else.

When I say be exceptional... I mean it. I mean be so exceptional no one else but you can fit through the producers door you're dealing with.  I've talked to these people.  I've done various monkey boy tricks for these people... I've sold scripts before.  I've optioned them before, but as good as my material is.  As absolutely ground breaking and cutting edge and just.... NEW. my vault of material is for their respected genres.  I still haven't had the desire to actively pursue it full time.  Why?  Because I know reality and it's helluva lotta footwork to get there.

So, yeah... You will hear the occasional --

"HE SOLD A SCRIPT & NOBODY EVER HEARD OF HIM BEFORE... I THINK THE GUY WAS FROM JOPLIN NEBRASKA, EVEN"

You just might hear of that... but guess what? You also hear of people winning powerball too... Ask yourself if you know them personally or even heard of them in passing.  That will give you a clearer picture of what you're dealing with. Also, Hollywood has been known to embelish a lot of these stories too.  They often change the writers age, sometimes by 10 years when they post it in the papers too.  They often change where he was born and his name, even.  So don't go thinking everything you read from Hollywood is real.  A lot of this is simply fluff to let the masses believe the circle of Hollywood isn't just a select few in the unions.

Also, 9x's out of 10... These guys who sell their scripts for 400,000 and 1 million dollars are often never heard from again.  This guy will never sell another script.  EVER!  It's like reality tv... you might land a show for a season because you're an attention whore, but it's that 2nd and 3rd and 4th and so forth that comes back to bite you on the ass.

Well, unless you have the ability to shoot 30 kids out of your twat.

G'luck writers... you're going to need it.  I'll be living my life, not chained to the hopes and dreams of maybe someday, in the mean time.

P.S.  DD is probably Done Deal...

Pia means DD as Done Deal. A great forum for screenwriters. You should check it out.

I've never contacted a film company or sent any queries because I think that would ruin my chances right away. You're right, the best way is to get an agent to approach those companies but those are hard to get. I think the best way to get an agent would be to...

1 - Place highly in one of the bigger screenwriting competitions which could lead to requests to see your work by agents or production companies.

2 - Write a high concept, low budget script and place it on Ink Tip. Lots of writers get agents by this method so they must be more than a few looking at what's listed.

I've never done any of the above yet. My only completed feature, I wouldn't consider it low budget so Ink Tip's out the window for that. I will enter a screenwriting competition early next year but with so many entries, I won't be holding my breath.

Hey, now come on guys.

I was asking you to prove me wrong. Not confirm my worst nightmare!

Fuck it! Sand, where's my lottery ticket.

Quoted from Baltis.

Balt,

What do you do with your scripts then?

You always say how incredible they are, but then say that you won't post them here and can't be bothered with Hollywood.

What is it you're tyrying to do with them?

Just curious.

Hey, if you don't have a dream, how you gonna have a dream come true?

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films

I've done plenty with them... I've been very active in the business of screenwriting.  I grew very tired of the entire business about 3 years ago and opted out completley... I focus on my day to day life now, my family, and my band above all else.  Writing, to me, is what I do... If it's not music or for video game websites, or it's blogging or It's screenwriting. I use to write skits for a weekly Youtube show about 2 years ago that grew to decent yet "mild" success in the video game forum world. I love writing.  It is a fulfillment to do it... I don't look for it as entitlement and I've said this time and time again,  I don't have the desire to write for Hollywood like so many writers here do.  I don't have the time or energy to put into it right now... Maybe someday I'll get back to doing it, but right now it just isn't in me.

When I write I write movies I wanna see and that I'd pay to own.  That's it.  Just because I don't post work here anymore, due to the fact nobody was reading features and anything past 5 to 10 pages, doesn't mean I'm not active in the community or others ... Or, even in the business.  I've critiqued screenplays for money... I send my material off to countless people for review and I network all the time.

Not everything I do is public... and or even under my name, Baltis.  I often use a few other names... More so when dealing with video game material or movie review material or blogging.  I don't want to be attached to these other projects should something ever arise... You all would be wise to do the same if you take on other ventures.

From the Writers Guild of Great Britain:

How do I copyright my script and please can I have some information about copyright?

As an author you automatically have copyright over your script, unless you assign it to someone else. You do not have to go through any formal procedure – if you wrote it, and you have not infringed someone else’s copyright, then the copyright is yours. Copyright means that no one can use your work without your permission.

As an author you also have moral rights over what you have written, unless you waive them in a contract. Moral rights include the right to be identified as the author or director of a work as appropriate, the right to object to the derogatory treatment of a work and the right to object to false attribution of a work.

There is a good explanation of UK copyright law on Wikipedia.

Guild members can contact the office for advice about copyright. We are not able to give any advice to non-members.

Who can I register my script with?

The Guild does not believe that registering a script gives you any significant protection from copyright infringements in this country. However, if you wish to register your script both the Writers Guild of America, west and the Writers Guild of America, East offer the service for a fee, as does The Script Vault in the UK.

This is from The Script Vault's web page:

What is The Script Vault?

Script Registration and Deposit

The Script Vault offers a script registration and deposit service that helps to safeguard your copyright by registering the author of a piece of work and also establishing the date it was written; this registration can prove to be invaluable in the event of a copyright dispute. Our Script Registration service is approved by the Writers' Guild of Great Britain and costs just £10 per script for online registrations. Your script will then be deposited in our 'Script Vault' for ten years - that's just £1 per year! For details either use the navigation screws above or click here.

The script registration service can be used to register any piece of original work including scripts, plays, synopses, treatments, book manuscripts, showreels, videos, CDs, tapes, ideas, concepts or any other format which the client chooses to record their original idea. We do however recommend you read the UK Copyright Law section on our site to find out what can and can't be copyrighted. Click here for information on protecting programme ideas, formats, treatments, synopses etc.

---

Personally, I believe this sort of thing is a waste of time, but I know many writers here are worried about copyright issues and this sort of site would be of interest to them.

Niles, that's basically how copyrights work in the US. You own the copyright on anything you create as soon as you create it. The Library of Congress and the WGA are there to prove WHEN you wrote if any questions arise at some point in the future.

Well, we are all signatories of the same convention on copyright, although the US joined a lot later than most of Europe! (cough)

It strikes me that a service like Script Vault is probably no more useful than a site like Mediafire - when you upload to that, you get a date stamp for your file, for free.

Strictly speaking anyone can register a work as their own - it does not prove the work is yours, just that you have registered it as yours. You can still have stolen it!

This is from "Storysense.com" - thought it was an interesting take on the whole "registering your script" debate:

It isn't necessary to file a copyright with the Library of Congress. Your script is automatically protected under common law. However, it's a good idea to register it, either with an online service, such as the National Creative Registry (protectrite.com), or with the Writers Guild of America. This being said, the Industry tends to view registration and copyright notices as the marks of a paranoid amateur.You would be wise to leave them off your script.

Common law is a joke in this case.

If you just completed your latest romance comedy script and you put copyright 12/20/09 on it, without doing anything else, someone else can get a copy of it and put copyright 9/13/08 on it.

Then what?

The LoC keeps a copy of it and you get that certificate which you present in court, should you have to.

If you relied on you common law copyright, and I get a copy of it, I can register it with the LoC. It'll have a later date on it than your cover, but the courts understand that covers can be faked.

Phil

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