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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board  /  Music Reviews and Discussion  /  Two questions regarding debut albums...
Posted by: ajr, February 2nd, 2010, 12:51pm
I was trying to think the other day about bands who burst onto the scene with a flaming hot debut album, only to never quite reach that level again...

And by this I mean bands that had staying power - quite obviously bands like the Spin Doctors hit the scene with a bang and then didn't release much afterwards...

I'm thinking "Bat Out of Hell", "Boston (I)", "Shake Your Money Maker" and "Appetite For Destruction" are four albums that squarely fit in this category. Can you think of others?

Also, which debut album was the best of all time?  Is it one of the above?

If you think about the top rock bands, The Beatles, The Who, Zep, the Stones,  Queen, Pink Floyd - none of them can claim a world-beating debut album, and certainly each band released work later on that far eclipsed their debuts.

AJR
Posted by: Andrew, February 2nd, 2010, 1:10pm; Reply: 1
In terms of fairly contemporary music (off the top of my head):

Oasis are the perfect example. One trick ponies carried by 'tude. Franz Ferdinand, Arctic Monkeys, Arcade Fire (was it just the one?) and Libertines all in the same boat.

Radiohead, KOL, Marilyn Manson, Nirvana, Coldplay, Manic Street Preachers, Interpol, At the Drive-In, Biffy Clyro, Bloc Party and Muse grew with time, but had good to excellent debuts.

Moby produced that one great album and sold himself while at it.

All great artists, irrespective of field, should grow with time as they learn to harness their talent and the technical area.

Andrew
Posted by: James McClung, February 2nd, 2010, 1:25pm; Reply: 2
I think Metallica is the classic example of this. The quality of their music has been inversely proportional with their success ever since Kill Em All. The new album doesn't seem to be as bad as St. Anger but St. Anger is one of the worst albums of all time. It's like saying Plan 9 from Outer Space wasn't as bad as Glen or Glenda. I've never been a huge fan of Metallica but at least the first couple albums had some edge to them, albeit not nearly as much as their contemporaries. Now they're just a figurehead for the general public to pretend they know what metal sounds like, just like the Ramones are a figurehead for punk... except the Ramones are actually good.
Posted by: George Willson, February 2nd, 2010, 1:34pm; Reply: 3
One thing I know about Bat Out of Hell is that the album was made before it had a label, and they really had to work to get a label's attention. Then, Meat Loaf darn near worked himself to death promoting the album with a very, very booked concert tour. The dude blew out his voice promoting Bat to such an extent that he couldn't really do justice to his second album, Dead Ringer, that had better music than his voice could stand up to. So Bat wasn't a best seller to begin with. Meat Loaf MADE it a best seller.

Anyway, the quality of that album had far more to do with Jim Steinman and Todd Rundgren making it than it did with Meat Loaf. His later stuff was mediocore until Bat 2 because there was no Jim Steinman writing material for him. Meat really can't do it without Steinman.
Posted by: dogglebe (Guest), February 2nd, 2010, 2:50pm; Reply: 4
Bat Out of Hell was not Meatloaf's first album.  He had one or two before that and had kept himself busy on/off Broadway.


Phil
Posted by: George Willson, February 2nd, 2010, 3:41pm; Reply: 5
Bat Out of Hell was his first album as just Meat Loaf. He had another one with another singer credited to Stoney & Meatloaf. Bat Out of Hell was his first SOLO album.
Posted by: stevie, February 2nd, 2010, 4:03pm; Reply: 6
Great topic! I love discussing music stuff.

Yeah, interesting question. The big groups(Beatles, Stones, Who, Zep,etc) ok, their debut albums are less embraced by their later, better albums. But they are still damn good albums. We are judging them compared to their later work, so it always seems different.
I wouldn't put GunsRoses or Oasis in the 'one-off' category, no way! Ok, Appetite was huge - and it took a year after its release before it made number 1 - but the Gunner's later stuff is good too.
Same with Oasis - their second album is considered their masterpiece.

One of the best debut albums i've ever heard is by Aussie band, The Vines 'Highly Evolved.' This is listed in one of those '1000 albums you must hear before you die' books. I still think its the best album by an Aussie band ever. One review said ' Think the Beatles crossed with Nirvana'.  They made the cover of Rolling Stone in 2002 but have dwindled since then.

Foreigner's debut was pretty good too, also the Gin Blossoms. I guess it all comes down to individual tastes.
Posted by: SteveUK, February 2nd, 2010, 4:49pm; Reply: 7
Off the top of my head, bands that could never reach the heights of their debuts:

The Strokes, The Stone Roses, Oasis, Sex Pistols, The Vines, The Velvet Underground
Posted by: ajr, February 2nd, 2010, 5:05pm; Reply: 8
George,

I actually have "Dead Ringer" on CD - didn't he do a duet with Cher on that?  And the song "I'm Gonna Love Her For Both of Us" was one of my favs at the time...

How about this - a band who actually exceeded their debut album in terms of commercial success, but not musically (at least IMHO) - Van Halen.

Sure, 1984 was huge, but it didn't come close musically to VH1.
Posted by: James McClung, February 2nd, 2010, 6:06pm; Reply: 9

Quoted from ajr
How about this - a band who actually exceeded their debut album in terms of commercial success, but not musically (at least IMHO) - Van Halen.

Sure, 1984 was huge, but it didn't come close musically to VH1.


I won't argue with this statement but I'm pretty sure Hot For Teacher mops the floor with anything off either album. You can argue musicianship all you want. That song just rocks.
Posted by: stevie, February 2nd, 2010, 7:04pm; Reply: 10

Quoted from SteveUK
Off the top of my head, bands that could never reach the heights of their debuts:

The Strokes, The Stone Roses, Oasis, Sex Pistols, The Vines, The Velvet Underground


I repeat...Oasis's second album, 'What's The Story Morning Glory' is their best album!
Posted by: MacDuff, February 2nd, 2010, 7:35pm; Reply: 11
Good question.

Arcade Fire - The had an EP that sold well in the indie market before Funeral burst onto the charts. Their last album, Neon Bible, is critically acclaimed - so I would not call them 1 album wonders.

I also agree with Oasis and GnR NOT being on the list. Oasis's What's the Story Morning Glory and GnR's Illusions albums are all critically acclaimed - and are arguablly the highlight of their careers thus far (though, as I side, people will argue both cases)

For this category, I'd nominate:

Hootie
Gin Blossoms
The Wallflowers
Elastica (arguable)
Stone Roses (arguable)
Savage Garden


Hmmm, that's it off the top of my head... mostly 90's stuff that I remember making a splash on the charts, but never having a follow-up success.

It's all open to debate tho.

Stew
Posted by: greg, February 2nd, 2010, 10:35pm; Reply: 12
Interesting topic...


Quoted from ajr

I'm thinking "Bat Out of Hell", "Boston (I)", "Shake Your Money Maker" and "Appetite For Destruction" are four albums that squarely fit in this category. Can you think of others?



I was thinking Boston also.  All of the songs on that album were rockets and are all among their most successful pieces.  Their next couple of albums also had some great songs(My favorite song of theirs is Can'tcha Say(You Believe in Me) off Third Stage) but they really paled in comparison to their debut.  That song was also left off their Greatest Hits CD...odd.

-Greg
Posted by: Shelton, February 2nd, 2010, 11:26pm; Reply: 13
Boston, definitely.  Not too sure about GnR though.  The Use Your Illusion albums were pretty big.

For me, I'd say Weezer.  The "blue album" had a lot of good songs and some top hits on it, and they never quite reached that level again really.  "Hash Pipe" and "Beverly Hills" were decent hits, but I don't think they could touch "The Sweater Song", "Buddy Holly" or "Say It Ain't So"
Posted by: stevie, February 3rd, 2010, 3:41am; Reply: 14
Does the porno shoot start soon, Mike?   I see you've grown your main prop again?
Posted by: ajr, February 3rd, 2010, 6:34am; Reply: 15
Whoa, it's Mike Selleck!

Greg,

"Cantcha Say" is one of my favorites as well. I also love "It's Easy" and "A Man I'll Never Be' from the 2nd album. As Saul Rubinek says to Christian Slater in True Romance "we park our cars in the same garage, my friend"...

So I'll ask the questions again: one, what bands hit the scene the hardest with their debut albums only to never find that success again (someone earlier mentioned the Gin Blossoms; great first album, but they were more of a one-off, like the Spin Doctors - i.e., hardly relevant after their debut); and what is the best debut album of all time?
Posted by: bert, February 3rd, 2010, 7:34am; Reply: 16

Quoted from ajr
So I'll ask the questions again: one, what bands hit the scene the hardest with their debut albums only to never find that success again...


The 80's are littered with these type of bands.

Some of us might remember how big Asia was when that came out.  Same thing can be said for Men at Work.  Those albums overwhelmed everything else on the radio at the time, and promised quite a bit that never came to fruition.

For a favorite debut -- at least, one that is high on the list -- from a band that did have some staying power -- I would go with Outlandos d'Amour, from the Police.  (Though I will admit to growing weary of "Roxanne.")

  
Posted by: Shelton, February 3rd, 2010, 9:47am; Reply: 17

Quoted from stevie
Does the porno shoot start soon, Mike?   I see you've grown your main prop again?


Haha, no.  I just uploaded the photo from last year.  I didn't grow a beard this year, so I wasn't able to take any snazzy pics in the middle of shaving it off.

Posted by: dogglebe (Guest), February 3rd, 2010, 11:55am; Reply: 18
Freddie Mercury called, Mike.  He wants his mustache back.  Oh, and he's still dead.


Phil
Posted by: Blakkwolfe, February 3rd, 2010, 3:47pm; Reply: 19
I'll bring up AC/DC's Back in Black- though true, it's not exactly a debut album, outside of Brian Johnson replacing Bon Scott, however, nothing else they've done has come close to the impact of Back in Black...
Posted by: greg, February 3rd, 2010, 5:38pm; Reply: 20

Quoted from Blakkwolfe
I'll bring up AC/DC's Back in Black- though true, it's not exactly a debut album, outside of Brian Johnson replacing Bon Scott, however, nothing else they've done has come close to the impact of Back in Black...


Good call.  While it wasn't a "debut" album, it was still the beginning of a new era for the band and is the second greatest selling album of all time.  Not sure if it's an acceptable answer for this thread, though :(

And as awesome of an album as BiB is, Highway to Hell is still my favorite from AC/DC by about a fraction of a point.
Posted by: stevie, February 3rd, 2010, 6:54pm; Reply: 21

Quoted from bert


The 80's are littered with these type of bands.

Some of us might remember how big Asia was when that came out.  Same thing can be said for Men at Work.  Those albums overwhelmed everything else on the radio at the time, and promised quite a bit that never came to fruition.

For a favorite debut -- at least, one that is high on the list -- from a band that did have some staying power -- I would go with Outlandos d'Amour, from the Police.  (Though I will admit to growing weary of "Roxanne.")

  


Yeah, good call on the Police, bert.  I bought their second and third albums before getting OdA. Some really good tunes on it, apart from Roxanne and I Can't Stand Losing You. I love Truth Hits Everybody.  I still have all three records.

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