Burying The Truth produced...

Quoted from dogglebe

I hope they asked for your permission for this....

Phil

As far as I know they did not. But they did give me credit, so it's all good. It was a nice little surprise actually. haha. I hop on my email and see that one of my scripts has been produced several times. It does have me curious though, have any of my other scripts been produced without my permission?

As for the actual videos, I enjoy all the different takes on my script. Though I am a bit disappointed there wasn't one that was entirely faithful to what I had written.

Jayrex, I think that one might be my favorite as well. Although I am a bit confused and disappointed by the end.

~Zack~

WTF??

Since when do film schools think they can just use other people's work without asking permission?

I google all my work on a regular basis. I do it by script title and, sometimes by character names. It's a pain in the ass but it has to be done.

Phil

Congrats on getting this produced, Zack.

I can't see much damage here since the script was available and you are happy to see it come alive. But for the record, Phill is right, it's totally a dick move to shoot stuff without the author's permission.

Bad film teachers bad film teachers, don't tell your students to pick anything they like on the net and shoot it. The fact that a script is posted on a public forum doesn't make it available to the public.

If I see a shinny new Ferrari parked on a public street does that mean I can can hop in and take it for a ride? Nope. And that hot blonde walking down the public street, can I club her down and do her? Can I? It's not for profit! Nope. I can't.

Same with scripts.

Quoted from Mr.Z

I can't see much damage here since the script was available and you are happy to see it come alive. But for the record, Phil is right, it's totally a dick move to shoot stuff without the author's permission.

The big problem, here, is that someone (with Zack's permission) could be producing it.  No one wants to produce a film when it may be going against another film of the same script at a film festival.  Filmmakers want to be the only ones making a particular script.

Plagiarism, like this, cost me with the Gimme Credit Screenplay Competition.  Some assholes from Full Sail filmed Not Even Death without my permission and posted it on several websites.  One of the rules of Gimme Credit (and other screenplay competitions) is that only unproduced scripts can be entered.

I had to bring a lawyer in on this to get all these 'pirated' versions of NED taken off the web.  And then I had a film teacher produce Sixteen Minutes and put it on youtube.  This could've scared away the filmmaker that I was in talks with to produce this script.

Both of these films were poorly made, IMHO.  This is why, when someone asks for  permission to shoot my scripts, I ask to see their work.  I want some control in the matter.

Phil

Quoted from dogglebe

I google all my work on a regular basis. I do it by script title and, sometimes by character names. It's a pain in the ass but it has to be done.

I did this today, searched YouTube for the title of one of my scripts. It has already been produced (with my permission) but to my surprise, I found 3 new movies based on that script (not 1, not 2 - fucking 3!)

One of them at least credited my as a writer - the other two didn't (they were made by the same guy. Yeah, he made it twice - go figure). I should be mad at the last guy...but I can't. It's so fucking hillarious listening to actors say your lines with an Indian accent.

This is the "real" one: http://www.simplyscripts.com/2008/12/22/the-second-draft-script-and-film/

Getting back to the original topic of this thread, I like the first one listed the best. Maybe it's because it's a different location than the others (others that I've seen so far). Or maybe because this was the only one where the main character actually had to deal with a body, as opposed to a trash bag filled with something that was obviously not a body. But this one seemed to work.

Phil

Rob, that's crazy! Some Indian dude filmed your script twice without asking?

That's hilarious!

Quoted from Zack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKUwPzChZuU

Best one. They really put a lot of time into this one. Even the acting wasn't that bad.

Quoted from Zack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUOhyR4ud78

Props for a different location and more creative dynamics between the body and ghost.

Quoted from Zack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P28HhotNlnE

Props for actually showing the murder onscreen as well as the dismemberment. Now it doesn't look as bad when the guy's dragging around a very non-body shaped garbage bag.

It's a good thing they made so many, Zack, because some of these sucked really bad. I've highlighted the ones that have their moments. I think the first two were actually pretty good. The second one starts out decent then peters out toward the end. The others... bad acting, no attempts to make it look like there's actually a body in the bags (at least give them some weight) and overblown, distracting music... actually most student films have crappy music.

I'm happy for you though or rather happy that you're not absolutely livid right now. I see Don's actually had to add disclaimers to the script boards. Who knew there were enough numbskulls who think ripping off other people's shit is okay just because they don't profit off it.

Quoted from sniper

One of them at least credited my as a writer - the other two didn't (they were made by the same guy. Yeah, he made it twice - go figure). I should be mad at the last guy...but I can't. It's so fucking hillarious listening to actors say your lines with an Indian accent.

I watched both of them and have to say I can see why he filmed the thing twice. He really stepped it up the second time around and fixed a lot of things. I also think it's funny how he totally ripped off the Sin City soundtrack. Looks like you're two degrees from Robert Rodriguez at this point.

Quoted from sniper

Forty-three seconds into it, one of the guys says, "Come again," with an Indian accent. Right away, I thought of Apu from the Simpsons.

But seriously, you should tell this guy to take these scripts down. They weren't his to use. And if he doesn't comply, you can complain to youtube directly.

Phil

This'll probably kick something off, but does anybody else find the message about this on the homepage a little...hostile?

I mean absolutely no disrespect to Don, who it goes without saying we all admire and are grateful to for running this place. But as well as a forum, this is a shop window for our work. I just last week signed off on an exclusivity agreement with a production company for a script that they found right here (well, not here as in this thread...oh you know what I mean). Intellectual property issues have to be taken seriously, but (and excuse my resorting to analogies here), if you walked past a shop that had "DOUCHE SHOPLIFTERS WILL BE PROSECUTED. REPEATEDLY." pasted over the windows, would you go have a browse? Or would you keep on walking?

Obviously we have a problem with people coming here and lifting scripts. And I know you've personally had some bad experiences, Phil. But there's protecting our work, and then there's driving people away. Zack doesn't seem too bothered with what's happened, although he might just be making the best of it. Just feel that message on the homepage is too aggresive. We have to do something to tackle the issue...just not that.

Honestly not trying to be dick, or go behind Don's back, or anything like that. Just speaking my mind as a member of the community who has a vested professional interest in the health of the site, and looking to raise a topic for discussion.

No! I totally agree with Don!

Yeah, I was happy to see it...and happy with what it said and how it said it. I think I actually said out loud, "Cool...".

Based on all this stuff going on with people filming other people's scripts, without their consent, or even knowledge, I think people need to be reminded, or informed, that these scripts, our babies, aren't free.

That's what I thought, at least.

Fair enough. As I say, just wanted to see what anyone else thought. I do agree we need to be clear about the fact that these scripts aren't just here for people to exploit however they want.

Good to see the site more active, by the way! Can't remember the last time the entire portal was filled with replies from today...

Douchebag is a good word. I like it. The next person that disagrees with me, or says something I don't like, I shall call a douchebag.

Most people here would allow their shorts to be filmed for free. But the filmmaker still has to ask for permission. The teachers should teach a little about copyright.

Phil

No, Don is right on with that post.

And while I might feel like a total douchebag for agreeing with Phil -- should Don be monitoring and considering some tweaks or edits to his language -- words to this effect might also make a nice addition to help soften the message:

Quoted from dogglebe

Most people here would allow their shorts to be filmed for free. But the filmmaker still has to ask for permission. The teachers should teach a little about copyright.

And on another note:

Quoted from JonnyBoy

Good to see the site more active, by the way!

And good posts, too -- not trash. People reading scripts.

I am on vacation -- and groaned when I checked in on the portal -- imagining that arguments must be brewing everywhere -- but all I found was good stuff.

Nice surprise.

Quoted from JonnyBoy

This'll probably kick something off, but does anybody else find the message about this on the homepage a little...hostile?

I mean absolutely no disrespect to Don, who it goes without saying we all admire and are grateful to for running this place. But as well as a forum, this is a shop window for our work. I just last week signed off on an exclusivity agreement with a production company for a script that they found right here (well, not here as in this thread...oh you know what I mean). Intellectual property issues have to be taken seriously, but (and excuse my resorting to analogies here), if you walked past a shop that had "DOUCHE SHOPLIFTERS WILL BE PROSECUTED. REPEATEDLY." pasted over the windows, would you go have a browse? Or would you keep on walking?

Obviously we have a problem with people coming here and lifting scripts. And I know you've personally had some bad experiences, Phil. But there's protecting our work, and then there's driving people away. Zack doesn't seem too bothered with what's happened, although he might just be making the best of it. Just feel that message on the homepage is too aggressive. We have to do something to tackle the issue...just not that.

Honestly not trying to be dick, or go behind Don's back, or anything like that. Just speaking my mind as a member of the community who has a vested professional interest in the health of the site, and looking to raise a topic for discussion.

Jon,

Thanks for calling me out on that.  I agree and should probably update the post to emphasize the prospective writer should contact the writer and in almost all cases the writers would be delighted to give his/her permission.    I did PM Zack with my post on the main site to let him know that if he wished for me to change or temper it, I would.

My intent, however, was to be hostile in this case.  Also, I want to get a reaction from GSVU's Image and Sound class and instructor.  The key lesson here that I want them to learn is that, as with music and movies, intellectual theft is not cool.  The instructor of the class should have asked the students if they got permission to use the work in question.

In most colleges today, students are warned about illegally downloading music and movies.  I firmly believe that in film school, students need to be warned of the same thing.

Jon, your point is well taken about driving people away and I certainly don't want to screw any writer's chance of getting produced.

Don

edit - if Jon or anyone has any suggestions on how to better temper the message, please let me know.

Quoted from bert

And while I might feel like a total douchebag for agreeing with Phil --

DOUCHEBAG!!

Yeah, like people are surprised at this....

Quoted from bert

should Don be monitoring and considering some tweaks or edits to his language -- words to this effect might also make a nice addition to help soften the message:

Unfortunately, the only thing that Don can do in cases like this is post harsh words. No one can stop these douchebags from taken our scripts. But, by posting such a message, maybe the next guy might decide to ask for permission, thus avoiding the douchebag transformation.

Maybe Don can post a message/warning at the top of the discussion boards for each of the genres (doing it for each script might be overkill).

Phil (not a d-bag)

I�m appalled by instructors who teach their students they can just take someone�s intellectual property without asking. It�s outrageous.

What do these filmmakers intend to do if a studio contacts them and expresses interest in making their film into a feature? Imagine when they have to inform the studio that they�ve never even spoken to the writer and that the writer has no idea their script has been produced. This is the kind of crap that can ruin a career before it gets started and instructors are encouraging it. Truly sad and completely unacceptable.

If I was about to sign a contract for paid exclusivity and the purchaser backed out because they discovered the script had already been produced for free by film students without my knowledge, I would sue the college for potential earnings.

It�s bad enough that students are taught to steal, but stealing what you would almost certainly get for free if you just asked is as perplexing as it is sad.

Breanne

Quoted from Don

When I learned that a high school film teacher filmed Sixteen Minutes without my permission, I wrote to him as well as the dean, expressing my displeasure in the matter. The dean got back to me right away.

Schools don't want a lawsuit.

Phil

I totally agree...however, I'm equally stunned that some members here that agree with this think nothing about using pirated copies of writing software... That's intellectual property as well...

Quoted from Don

My intent, however, was to be hostile in this case. Also, I want to get a reaction from GSVU's Image and Sound class and instructor. The key lesson here that I want them to learn is that, as with music and movies, intellectual theft is not cool. The instructor of the class should have asked the students if they got permission to use the work in question.

In most colleges today, students are warned about illegally downloading music and movies. I firmly believe that in film school, students need to be warned of the same thing.

Don,

I just read this. I guess the question in my mind is whether or not the students acted on their own and the instructor failed to follow up, or whether the instructor taught the students they could take without asking. Either way, it seems to me it ultimately traces back to the instructor�s responsibility.

I think your post on the front page is fine, except maybe remove the douche references.

I�m inclined to believe no harm was intended. I�d like to think this is just a mistake on the part of the instructor and/or the students. However, this isn�t the fist time this type of thing has happened and it�s a very disturbing trend.

Breanne

Don, love your post on home page. Sounds like something about a quarter as offensive as I would've said.

I do kinda agree with Johhnyboy here. I would like to see a piercing message without the use of douchebag. You guys usually do a fine job keeping us volatile writers in check by being straight forward.

I love the message and stand behind it 100 percent. I don't think a juvenile word like douchebag should be in your article about script theft though. Thats for me to say. When these fuckers join the site. Or Phil of course.

James

For the record, I'm not really very mad about what has happened. I understand and agree with why most of you are, but I've been in a bit of a slump as of late. Not writing or reading(I still owe Shawnkjr a read), it was pretty exciting to find that message in my inbox. It's got my brain moving again and i'm hard at work on my next "killer person"(I think that's what zombie sean called it) script.

~Zack~

Guys, really, don't censor Don. Let him communicate things how he wants to. If he's thinking these guys made a douche move, then he's entitiled to say that. It got your attention, didn't it? So no only did he say exactly what was on his mind but he said it in a way that got your attention. How effective is that! Good work, Don, thanks for looking out for us.

Here's the proper and professional way to get a script on SS. Robert Coppa of Red Bandit Productions posted the thread below a couple weeks ago seeking scripts. And not to brag, but he chose a script I submitted to him entitled, "Trustworthy".

Upon selecting it he asked that I sign an Exclusivity Agreement. I consulted with Michael Cornetto to see if it was legit because I've never dealt with something like this before. Turns out it's a real deal. And wah-lah...everybody's happy.

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1278467875/

http://www.redbanditproductions.com/

I personally agree with the message as it currently stands. One can drone on all one likes about the legalities of intellectual property theft, much like movie studios drone on about illegal piracy. What it is at least equally important for these aspiring filmmakers to understand as the fact that intellectual property theft makes you a criminal is that it makes you a straight-up, flat-out douche. There's a whole personal level to taking a script without permission that the laws don't really address, and that's that if you're the kind of person who will steal a script, you're a huge douche, and your career will go poorly for you because nobody likes a douche.

If they're going to get called on being douches, it should be now.

But:

Congrats, Zack! What could be cooler for a writer? Not just one interpretation, but a bunch. That's about the most helpful thing that could ever happen for a scriptwriter. Awesome!

I'm not going to watch them because film students suck, but I hope they were valuable to you.

Quoted from Don

edit - if Jon or anyone has any suggestions on how to better temper the message, please let me know.

Michael, he asked. I just gave my opinion. I think this site is a huge step above any other script writing forum. I don't think "douchebag" is a way to attract new, maybe timid, producers or writers.

Furthermore, it doesn't even seem like Zack wanted anybody to take on this battle for him. He's happy. It should be his job to go off if anyone.

James

Quoted from jwent6688

Ah! But you forget that Don is a screenwriter - just like all of us - and as such he has his own strong feelings about these sorts of things. On top of that, this is his site, as far as he is concerned someone stole something from his site. I can understand him saying it was a douche move (he didn't call them a douchebag as far as I can see).

Michael

Again, I'm with Don here all the way. It obviously grabbed everyone's attention, and that's why it's effective and the right move.

Quoted from jwent6688

Jame,

You have a good point. Zack didn't ask me to take this on and as I state in the submission section, protection of your work is your responsibility. I should have asked Zack first. Normaly, I don't do this, but it does/did bother me when it was a class devoted to film making did this. I firmly believe that the instructor should include getting permission to use a script should be taught in class.

Quoted from mcornetto

Michael,

Yes, I called the behavior douche, not the persons involved.

Quoted from Heretic

I'm not going to watch them because film students suck, but I hope they were valuable to you.

Actually, the production values are pretty good. I liked the different interpretations of Zack's script.

Don,

What if you were to provide a "generic Script Acquisition contract" on the main page that prospective Producers could download in PDF and send to the writer, then have the writer sign and send back  -- thus giving a clear message of the proper way to acquire a script from your site?

Here's an altered SAC that I signed with Red Bandit Productions.

                                       Script Acquisition Contract
                                       Exclusive Rights Agreement

I,  WRITER�S NAME, on DATE, agree to PRODUCER�S NAME (hereinafter referred to as "SO&SO FILMS") owning exclusive rights to my script known as, SCRIPT NAME, for the purpose for producing as a short film.  WRITER further certifies that he has not entered into any other such agreement with any other party that will infringe upon the rights hereto granted to "SO&SO FILMS� by the terms of this agreement.

WRITER also acknowledges as fact that, until setting his pen to this agreement, that he controls the full rights to SCRIPT NAME and does not share control or obligation with any other party.  WRITER will be issued an opening title credit and whatever else agreed upon, blah-blah.

WRITER agrees that �SO&SO FILMS� has the right to adapt the title, dialogue and scene settings based on regional ethos and resource limitations.

It is understood that with the signatures below, "SO&SO FILMS"  has acquired the exclusive right to direct, film, edit, produce, and promote the film known as �SCRIPT NAME without any restriction whatsoever as long as "SO&SO FILMS"  fulfills the contractual obligations agreed hereto.

It is further agreed by both �SO&SO FILMS� and WRITER that this agreement will expire if �SO&SO FILMS� does not begin production within (    ) months of signing this contract.

_______________________________                          [WRITER]

_________________________________
[DATE]


_________________________
[FULLNAME]

_________________________
[DATE]

It kinda came out funky but you get the point.  Take something like this and make the necessary adjustments.

To quote Cristopher Plummer (Mike Wallace) from The Insider: "I'm with Don on this one."

I thought Don expressed himself quite eloquently. I don't really consider using the term "douche" as either hostile or offensive when you consider the context of the message. Personally I would've gone for much harsher language - which is why it's probably a good idea that Don wrote that entry and not me.

I like Mike's SAC example though I'm personally not crazy about the "exclusive rights" paragraph.

Michael, I wasn't trying to 'censor' anyone. Don't be a douche. :)

And Don - appreciate your response. I see the post has changed now, and I think it reads a whole lot better. Obviously we - and I - appreciate all the work you put in, and please don't think I'm looking over your shoulder or anything like that. This recent spate of script thefts (which, after all, is what it is) needs a response, and as the site continues to grow it's probably only going to become more of a problem.

Although ultimately, Zack seems pretty chuffed by all this! Which just goes to show that you can always find a silver lining.

Will you guys give it a rest? What a bunch of douchebags!

Phil

Quoted from Heretic

I'm not going to watch them because film students suck, but I hope they were valuable to you.

Whoops! That does sound unreasonable.

I'm an (ex-) film student who lives with a bunch of (ex-) film students so I am generally (ex-self-) deprecating about them -- I've seen more student films than I ever needed to see in my life. I do think that film students are often taught to focus on the wrong things about filmmaking, and given the often very dangerous impression that they are more qualified for their jobs than they actually are. That's bad. I also think they are usually given a strong base knowledge about film. That's good. The Frogurt is also cursed...that's bad.

I'm a fairly new visitor to these boards.  I've had a screenplay posted, but by no means is it my first and I've been writing screenplays since 2001.

But I think after the movie "Kick-Ass" the hostile nature and wording (i.e. douche move) is fair, and might actually wake that class' instructor up (I hope).  But I do understand the fear of drawing prospective readers, buyers, etc away.

I did watch all the different versions and tried to follow the script and was at a loss with the GVSU I&S class that not only did they use the script without permission, none of them stayed true to the script.  Of course you may not be word for word or action for action when filming for a number of reasons, but you should do your best to stay as close as possible.

Now time for me to add a screenplay or two  of mine to the short film section.

This was produced again recently. Again.... without my permission...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iLcT2h0JBY

This is ridiculous.

EDIT- Apparently this did well in the Santa Monica Teen Film Festival...

http://www.l2mediaproductions.com/film/

Another EDIT- Found another one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJxbphccHVM

~Zack~

Quoted from Zack

LOL.

You could be famous already and don't know it! ;D
I wonder how many OTHER careers are going to get launched because of this.

Follow the trail I guess.
See if there's any awards you should be claiming.
Good luck!

Regards,
E.D.

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