Guardians of Mayfair by Ray Whitter - Short, Drama - Great friendships amongst a small town's residents persevere against life's foes, both great and small. 9 pages  A WOL script - pdf, format 8)

I hate to be a pain in the rear, but I have to be honest too.

I had a hard time getting through page 1... That's sort of bad when it's just a 9 pager. It was way too descriptive IMHO and didn't grab me.

Chunky paragraphs like that make people groan when they open the script. Try to tighten the action paragraphs and break them up. White is a beautiful color in a script.

Hey Ray!

This was an interesting take on the assignment. Use of the lyrics - as well lyrics - was kinda cool. The descriptive writing was too descriptive - esp in the beginning. Blocky.

Gary

Quoted from Grandma Bear I hate to be a pain in the rear, but I have to be honest too... Try to tighten the action paragraphs and break them up. White is a beautiful color in a script.

Quoted from grademan The descriptive writing was too descriptive - esp in the beginning. Blocky.

Thank you, Pia
Thank you, Gary

No pains.
If it's too chunky and block then... it's too chunky and block.
You guys ARE the eyes.

I'm a visual guy, too much director I'll hazard. I know being too descriptive is going to be a weak spot for me.
This is what I need to know.

Thank you for the read and more importantly the useful feed back.
(GOLD, BABY! It's GOLD!)

Ray

Addendum: (rather than add a new post) Thanks, Pia. Pool & bed is what we did tonight. Kidz went to sleep in 2.5 secs. :)

Didn't know you wrote it since there was no boardname attached.

You've been a good help here at SS so I will read it tomorrow and try to give you some better comments.

Right now, I'm fixing to hop in the pool then head to bed.  :)

Whoa. Tough read. Lost interest on page two. Couldn't finish it. Don't like to put scripts down but this one did not reel me in. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

Hey,
I know this was written quickly for the whole Babz thing, here are my thoughts on it.
Gave it a second through to see if maybe I missed something the first time, it was really hard to follow even during the second read. Most of the dialogue read really well though.

I get what you're trying to do with your descriptions like in the ones below:
"Gravel parking lot is overflowing onto adjacent streets. ",
"Live  band plays Joan Jett’s "I Love Rock and Roll"."
but I don't think that style fits the type of story you have here. Maybe they would be better suited in a full blown action script, but here they only read awkwardly.

Using simply scripts members names for your character names come off a bit forced, and a little desperate for attention and approval.

The notes after the ending were a first as well.
Also, not the most commercial thing I've ever read.
Good luck with the next one
Nate

Quoted from sniper Whoa. Tough read. Lost interest on page two. Couldn't finish it... Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

Quoted from n7 I know this was written quickly... it was really hard to follow even during the second read. Most of the dialogue read really well though. I get what you're trying to do...  but I don't think that style fits the type of story you have here. Maybe they would be better suited in a full blown action script, but here they only read awkwardly. Using simply scripts members names for your character names come off a bit forced, and a little desperate for attention and approval. The notes after the ending were a first as well.

Thank you, Rob
Thank you, Nate, especially for pounding through this a second time.

If it's unfinishable, knowing it's only eight pages, then THAT's plenty of help.
I'm killing you guys with  data choke.
Elsewhere I've seen it described as "too novely".

Nate -
(chuckling) Nah. I think it's because I spent TOO MUCH time on it that I just kept going back and sticking a little bit more in it - then - a LITTLE more!
Quick N dirty seems to be my future goal.
Thank you for the useful dialog remark.
Full blown action script - Yep. Sans action. HA!
Not appropriate for the given task. Gotcha. Got it. Will do better next go round.

>> Members names... come off a bit forced, and a little desperate for attention and approval <<
THAT was meant tongue in cheek. A joke.
Sincerely goofy rather than desperate.
BECAUSE it was so in the face it couldn't have been meant seriously (and this was an exercise, so I thought of them as being arbitrary).
However, if it failed - then it failed. I failed.

Thank you, again.

Ray

I saw the comments about the descriptions already, so I won't go any more into those.

I think it was an interesting take on things, weaving the lyrics into the story then actually using them, but I think the weaving aspect in the beginning could have been a little more clear.  It seemed more shrouded than it needed to be.

I also couldn't quite figure out if Moon wrote the song, or if everything being parallel was just a coincidence.  I think it'd be cooler if it were the former.

Quoted from Shelton I also couldn't quite figure out if Moon wrote the song, or if everything being parallel was just a coincidence.  I think it'd be cooler if it were the former.

Howdy, Mike

Intended as coincidence.
Chess pieces that have no linear connection as they appear but all work together at the conclusion.

Ray,

The good news is you've definitely got an imagination.   The bad news is it's running wild.     8)

Welcome to the club.

Hi Ray,

You're a great help on SS, so this is my repayment.

Unfortunately, I'm only on page 5 before I finally give up. I'll try to finish it if I get the chance. The problem is I didn't get what your story is about. Too many random characters popping in and out: Mr. Fook, Mrs. Anne, Jim...and where is Mr. Chaney after you introduced him on page 1?

Right now, it reads very episodic, like different events of different characters stitched together.

I hope you can explain what your intention is so we can help find ways to make the script works.


Herman

Quoted from Coding Herman Too many random characters popping in and out: Mr. Fook, Mrs. Anne, Jim...and where is Mr. Chaney after you introduced him on page 1? Right now, it reads very episodic, like different events of different characters stitched together.

Howdy, Herman

The character Don is just trying to get down the town square sidewalk to get to his doctor's appointment as everybody slows him down for help.
Help me. Help me. Help me.
Don can't get his own business done for helping everyone else.

Mr Chaney and boyfriend were going the opposite direction on the way to lunch.

When I was a kid there was this kooky little old lady that the whole town knew. She'd always wear this funny, brown, horse jockey outfit and push a cart up and down the sidewalk in front of the shops.

As an adult I'm living in another city. Here, there's this middle aged guy wearing a clean white T-shirt and baggy blue jeans, clean cut hair. He walks miles and miles and can be seen all over town. You can tell the guy has mental health issues, but he's clean, he's shaved, his hair is cut. I dunno. All we know is his name is John. So we've dubbed him "Walking John".

I figure most towns have their "village idiot" or odd fellow that is fairly benign and generally accepted. Mayberry has Otis. We have "Walking John".

That'd be the CHANEYs in this story.

This was a tough read. I think your biggest problem is clarity. I just kept getting lost and having to read over earlier parts. It took me a long time to just get through 5 pages. It was a chore.

Regarding the descriptions, I also found them too much. Sometimes it’s just being overly specific. Other times, I think you infer when you need to be more specific. Your word choices are good. Your basic style is good. Your voice is good. You just need to tighten it up and economize. Concentrate more on clarity and flow.

On a technical note, hearing the bar patrons singing while we’re outside the bar would be a voiceover.

Regarding the story, it flowed much better once they were at the bar. A lot of scripts are dense during the setup and then sort of break out in the second act. When I revise scripts, I always examine the flow of the second and third acts and then use that as a meter when I revise the first act. The object is to have the same pace throughout the whole script. The first act is always dense because of all the setup. I always look for things in act one that can be accomplished in act two. That allows me to lighten up act one and make it flow better. It also solidifies act two and gives it a greater sense of progression.

I know this is a short but it would be better for you to expand it and have a clearer, more free flowing script than to stuff it all into a congested block.

Just some thoughts. Good luck. :)


Breanne

Okay, read this one.

First off, I didn't think it was horrible or anything. Just a tad confusing in the beginning, but I've read many many confusing scripts here over the years so don't feel like you're the only one.

The story itself was actually pretty good. It was your telling of it that didn't really work. At least not for me.

Descriptions have already been mentioned and I think you have realized what needs to be done there. If you want example of descriptive beautiful writing that works, I suggest you checkout scripts by Mr. Z. He writes beautifully and paints great visuals without the writing slowing the story dow. If you can't write like that then it's better to be as brief as possible.

I also felt that you had way too many characters for a 9 page script. You can have them in there, but they don't all need to talk. In other words they don't need introductions. We can't remember 10 people introduced at once. See if there are some characters that you can either cut out or just have as background characters.

Hope any of this was helpful.

Pia  :)

Hey Ray, welcome aboard, mate!

I've been very interested in reading something of yours as you have an awful lot to say and have been posting like a madman(which isn't a bad thing at all).

I'm sorry, but I have literally nothing positive to say here.  IMO, this thing's a frickin' mess...in every way, shape, and form.

Before I read a single word, I saw numerous mistakes on page 1, and that's an instant killer, IMO.

Don't go over 4 lines of prose in a single passage (paragraph).  It reads clunky, looks like crap.  Watch your use of over description (there's a shitload here on display).  There are numerous mistakes in terms of grammar, punctuation, sentence structure, word choice, typos, spelling errors, incorrect Flashback formatting, irrelevant Flashbacks, unfilmables, passages that clearly should be broken up (that aren't), and finally, your "notes" after "THE END"...are just God awful...really, man.  Lose 'em immediately.

But, after all that, what's worse, is that the story goes absolutely nowhere, IMO.  Maybe I missed something, but I don't think so.  What is the meaning of this "story?  What's the purpose?  I guess, in an odd way, you did incorporate the lyrics (although quite literally, as in actual singing of the exact song), but I hardly see how that meets the challenge.

Sorry, bud, but this was a tough one to slog through for me.  I don't mean to be an ass (but I seem to say that alot), but I've got to be 100% honest and I am trying to help.

Keep at it!  Take care.

Ray

I think its pretty clear what dregs this script down as others have pointed it out above on numerous occasions so I won't dwell on it... but needless to say, I agree with them.

However, I think there is some semblance of a story here (the origins of one anyway) with diverse and genuine characters that, unfortunately, is obscured, buried even, under the awkward, sloppy and grossly overwritten prose.

The set pieces were a bit cluttered with all these people coming in and out, saying their piece then moving on. This felt more like an intro to a series or feature film whereby you were fitting in as much as possible to give us a flavour of what’s to come in subsequent episodes or whatever. Which is fine if you are going in that direction and expanding the piece into something greater but as a standalone short script its not gonna work. In its current from it’s all unnecessarily incoherent and alienating for the reader. I mean, it’s a fairly basic premise and plot for the 10 pages which is only made cryptic by the writing style.

Although the flashback were poorly formatted, I loved the cut to Don enjoying being caught in the rain juxtaposed with him talking about how he spent three tours in an Afghan desert. That was a nice contrast of images filled in with dialogue to give us an idea of Don’s plight, what he’s been through and suffered and the little things he appreciates nowadays via his post war, legless perspective.

The dialogue came off natural and realistic for the most part, which to me is very important and a good sign as it more or less defines what the writer has to say...you just need to work on your descriptions and formatting, which will come in time.

Best of luck

Col.

First, I want to express my sincere appreciation for those of you who have left feedback.

Dreamscale hit the nail right on the head about my posting a lot.
You reap what you sow.
I see a few rude people dumping screenplays, demanding feedback but express no interest in providing reads on the work of others.
I chuckled when I read a SS regular's response (I think it was Breanne) telling one such person "Please stop by more often. We enjoy being used."
HA!
I've been making investment in you guys.
You've payed back and I appreciate it.

For those of you brave enough, I'd like to continue in the direction you've collectively pointed.

What follows will only refer to the first two pages of a re-work.
I'm learning principles.
No need to re-do the entire thing.

So far: Dialog & characters, exclusively, seem to be generally fine.
But they are lost/wasted in a quagmire of
A: TOO MUCH [expletive] DESCRIPTION! and
B: wrong format structure.
For bonus...
C: these challenges are meant to be light and quick, from what I gather.
This was my first. I didn't see any others for reference material, so I was writing blind, so to speak and I see only Mike's "A-hoo!" for a germane challenge reference.
Open ocean. No landmarks. No sun. No stars. No compass. Just me and my dinghy + dead reckoning. :)

Will a few brave souls please review the chop shop versions of the first two pages and let me know if I've amputated enough description without killing the story, but rather bringing it out?

I think I revised in the correct format for flashbacks.
Pia, for a SNL skit, you're spot-on correct - Too many characters.
For a light & quick OWC, you're again spot-on.
Col is correct - What I wrote WOULD BE an intro to a series or feature film.
Not to beat a dead horse, myself - I'm now gathering the gist of the intent of the exercise/challenge.

Thank you


Ray

Ray, it's MUCH, MUCH better, to say the least.

There are still lots of issues, IMO, but others may not agree.

First of all, you didn’t offer a single stitch of info on what this “small town square” looks like.  For me, screenplays need to be visual…this isn’t.  Always set your scene so we can get an idea of what it looks like, so we can “see” your movie playing.

You’re missing some commas, some awkward phrasing, and stuff of that nature still.

The Flashbacks are MUCH, MUCH better.  I format them differently, but at least this makes sense now.  The way I do it, is like this…

BEGIN FLASHBACK:  (left justified)

EXT. MAI LAI’S DISCOUNT HOOKERS – MORNING

John stumbles outside, naked, blood pulsing from his severed schlong.

END FLASHBACK.   (left justified again)

IMO, you don’t want to enter back into your scene with dialogue first..it looks odd and makes for a tough transition.

I’d lose the “DISSOLVE TO:” (and/or any other such transitions), unless it’s really important, makes a statement, or is done in a unique way that somehow lends itself to your script.

Hope that helps.

Yessir, it does.
Just what I'm looking for.
The mechanics.

Small town square?
Generic STS. Pick one. Doesn't matter. They're square. They have shops with sidewalks. Done.
Sometimes it just doesn't really matter if it's a town square in Virginia or Oregon.

Generally the same for a mall, airport, harbor or graveyard.

Understood, but for me, I have no clue what your STS is supposed to look like.  Your opening scene runs at least 5 pages, if I remember correctly (with some Flashbacks).  IMO, that means it's an important scene and should be properly set up with some descriptive visuals.

Everybody has different opinions on literally everything, but I bet ya most will agree that you need to describe your sets in some fashion, other than something heinous like, "An ordinary Small Town Square."

You cannot assume that everyone of your readers has had the same life experiences as you...and knows the same things you do.  If someone has never been to San Francisco (and somehow never seen a show or movie, located there), they're not going to know what it looks like, unless you give some description, whatever it may be.

So I go to read this and there are all kinds of wacky things going on here -- with new pages in the thread (?) -- amongst other oddities -- so I guess a rewrite is already in the works?

To echo one of your common questions:  Is the posted version what an interested party should read, or would you prefer that they wait for version 2.0?

Howdy, Bert

Quoted from bert So I go to read this and there are all kinds of wacky things going on here -- with new pages in the thread (?) -- amongst other oddities -- so I guess a rewrite is already in the works? To echo one of your common questions:  Is the posted version what an interested party should read, or would you prefer that they wait for version 2.0?

I apologize.
Frequently the things I do come across as wacky. I dunno. Just me.

It's just an analysis of the two pages presented I'm interested in.

Quoted from Ray For those of you brave enough, I'd like to continue in the direction you've collectively pointed. What follows will only refer to the first two pages of a re-work... No need to re-do the entire thing.

I'm not going to invite anyone to invest in re-working an entire exercise.
Two pages? Eh... no biggie.

How's the scene go in "Aliens"?
        Ripley repeats the action, not very smoothly.  Her hands
        are trembling.  She indicates a stout TUBE underneath
        the slender pulse-rifle barrel.

                                  RIPLEY
                   What's this?

                                  HICKS
                   Well, that's the grenade launcher
                   ...you probably don't want to
                   mess with that.

                                  RIPLEY
                   Look, you started this.  Now show
                   me everything.  I can handle myself.

                                  HICKS
                   Yeah.  I've noticed.

Well... Hicks. Don't puss-out on me now.

http://www.sellascript.com/source/resources/screenplays/Aliens.txt
(BTW, Dreamscale, there's a TON of unfilmables in here. I suggest you avert your eyes.)


Just asking if I still need to prune some more?
Did I prune too much?
Dreamscale reports I still have punctuation issues.
Just stuff.
Throw a dog a bone.

(Other oddities deleted from the thread) :)

Ray, Aliens was obviously written and directed by Mr. James Cameron, who can and does do anything he wants, anyway he wants to.  It was also 24 years ago.

Mr. Cameron didn't and doesn't have to worry about screeners reading his spec scripts. Same deal with many other Pros, most notably, Mr. QT, whose actual scripts look like shit on paper.

Unfilmables are a debate that most likely will never be completely resolved.  But in sticking to exactly what a screenplay is supposed to be, unfilmables should not be included, because as the name implies, they are "unfilmable", and do not translate to the filmed version.

BTW, there are numerous punctuation issues in the 2 pages you reposted, as I mentioned.

Well done on the posted rewrite, Ray, a huge improvement. As the ever perceptive Jeff rightly points out, there are some some small things to fix but nothing major.

Kudos, sir.

Ray,
The rewrite is an improvement, but you should leave this tale in the dust, your overall story is weak and that's ok. Learn from your mistakes with this and move on to the next thing, don't waste your time with this story, it isn't going anywhere and that's ok. Now for the harsh criticism, I hope the following, it isn't pretty, but I hope it can lead you on the right path:

I think the major complaint from readers here is that you posted "advice" every other second for weeks on what you "thought" a script should be (from commercial ideals, Michael Bay type stuff, etc.), but once you actually posted something of your own it was below amateurish and lacking any sense of skill or talent to say the least..it's one thing to have potential, it's another to lack any skill whatsoever and lack any sense of format which you displayed here.

Honestly it was lower than rubbish(shown in the 100% negative comments about your script, trust me, the people who left neutral comments were only trying to be polite), leaving all of your in depth feedback/comments and cutsie wordplay, for example " (Just asking if I still need to prune some more?  Did I prune too much?
Dreamscale reports I still have punctuation issues.
Just stuff. Throw a dog a bone.""
...meaningless because you cant' back them up with anything of substance.

Look forward to reading your next effort, you've definitely received a ton of advice on what not to do the next time, hopefully you'll learn from your previous mistakes and will never put anything out as awful as your last effort.
Nate

Quoted from n7 The rewrite is an improvement, but you should leave this tale in the dust...

I already stated that I did.
I moved onto mechanics.
Re-read the "2 pages only" post.
You're barking up the wrong tree.

Quoted from n7 Look forward to reading your next effort, you've definitely received a ton of advice on what not to do the next time, hopefully you'll learn from your previous mistakes and will never put anything out as awful as your last effort. Nate

I've not received "a ton" of advice.
I've received multiple confirmations of the same advice.

However, statements such as "never put anything out as awful as your last effort" may SEEM advicely useful, but tell me how I can change anything with that statement?
I can't.

        NATE
  Never put anything out as awful as your last effort.

        RAY
  Okay. Change what?

        NATE
   Never put anything out as awful as your last effort.

        RAY
   Yeah. You already said that.
   Now, what should be changed?

        NATE
    Never put anything out as awful as your last effort.

        RAY
    Thanks, mate. You're a great help.


A few of your site-mates have already USEFULLY directed me to some works with format structure I may be able to guide off of.
Thank you.

Whatchugot, Nate?

My remarks on other works here?
Well, maybe you and I are paying attention to different things.

First, I've not been rude and ugly to anyone, even when provoked.
I'm not even being rude you now.

Second, you've not seen me correct splellin' N grammer. (That was a joke there, in case you missed it) ;)

Third, you've not seen me flag block and chunk because I don't have a problem with it. I know where my limitations are. I don't know where yours are.

Fourth, I've given up on complaining about format. Knock yourself out.

Fifth, you have seen me flag continuity, like "CHARACTER should have told the cops about such and such" or "the CHARACTER has no internal conflict to resolve".
You don't see me saying "Your juvenile story sux."

Sixth, you have seen me flag simple fact, like "shiny metal pistol" is correctly labeled "nickel plated pistol" or "I'd drive a combine across the snowy fields to save my family".
You don't see me saying "That's wrong" and "You're stupid for not...".

And darn near most of the time I've been "post[ing] "advice" every other second for weeks" includes work-arounds.
Not just pointing and crying.

I don't recall seeing you come behind me and post that any of those were incorrect.
Right?

If all a person can do is complain then that's okay.
What I'm looking for are people with the ability to go the next step: to help.
I've found a few people at simplyscripts able to do just that.
So, are you able to help move foreward or do you wanna stay behind and shoot that dead donkey some more?
If you can't, fine.
If you can, thank you.

Ray

Got bored at work.
IT nazis blocked PDFs.
Can only read thread comments.
Went wandering.
I'm pretty sure I just found the "Dude" jwent speculated I might be:
http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-screenwrite/m-1277407265/s-all/

Nope.
I'm not him.

He just wants to argue.
He had his answer like... four or five comments in and kept on arguing.

He's an a$$.
He gots no sense of humor.
Ya'll are a buncha splellin' N grammer po-po.
But you don't see me cryin' 'bout it.

I'm not interested in fighting.
Just quit trying to start one.
Can we get some work done, now?

Hey Ray,

I just finished this. The new 2 pages had a better format to them, but I think your problem with this script is that you have too many things going on in it. Too many different stories you're trying to tell at the same time.

Like: Don the soldier who had his legs blown off, the old lady who hurt her finger, Jim who smokes too much and has cancer, and will have a problem paying for the surgery, the resturant owner who will give Don free chicken for life for delivering something to his brother. (Not sure what he delivered either), and then the song contest.

It's all jumbled together. We're not following any ONE character.

I think you should pick one main character and follow him through his story. The way it is here, it would be Don. If you want to have it about him getting money for Jim, start the script with the two of them together. Show the problem right then, and then show us how Don goes about fixing it. (ending with the song, and collecting the money).

I don't think you need to show him on the mountain top or at war either. Either he or someone else could just mention it briefly, and our imagination could fill the rest in.

Good luck if you do a rewrite,
Cindy

Ray,
I admit I went a overboard with the "awful" comment yet that wasn't my main point. Don't worry, I'm not going to be as harsh this time.

What I was trying to get across is how frustrating it was to have read your comments and "advice" for weeks, but then once you posted something of your own you barely had a grasp on the bare fundamentals like form, style, flashbacks, notes at the end, etc., this after beating people over the head with comments about how we should be choosing to write something on the basis of being commercial rather than something personal.

This made me interpret a lot of your reviews as having more style than substance. It's tough to take anyones advice seriously when they don't have this basic grasp on the fundamentals, which is why all your comments seemed unnecessary after the fact.

Everyone here is always grateful to receive feedback, but hit felt like the only good you ended doing was bumping up some older scripts that had fallen down the boards to help yourself get on the good side of older members. It's always nice to receive that bump, but it doesn't really do any good in the long run.

I'm all for everyone helping each other out, from newbies to the experienced, it's just that at first you came across like you already were well on your way down that path based on your comments and once I read your script it felt like you didn't have the overall understanding of the medium to being making the suggestions you were. Which basically ended up being a waste of peoples time.

Anyway, no hard feelings, just wanted to get my point across, then I'm done with it. I genuinely look forward to reading your future work once you've got a few more stories under your belt and think you'll do fine in the long-haul.
Nate

Nate,

How 'bout you and me agree to disagree on priorities?

I am sincerely sorry you feel duped by your own notions of "at first you came across like you already were well on your way down that path based on your comments"
Because when I read REACH FOR THE STARS (http://www.simplyscripts.com/scripts/reachforthestars.pdf ) and read:

>> Barbara waves goodbye, cup of coffee in hand. <<
on PDF 10 and wonder "Does he mean she's sloshing coffee all over or holding coffee in the other hand?"

... or...

            CHARLES
  Rory fits my programs third type of
  child. He may not be smart,...
... on PDF 14 and notice "my programs third type" is possessive, so it should have an apostrophe: program's, - strangely - I just post simple corrections, sans vitriolic vagaries.

>> Barbara waves goodbye, cup of coffee in hand. <<
The coffee hand is waving or the other hand is holding the coffee?

... and...

>>             CHARLES
  Rory fits my programs third type of... <<
"Programs" is possessive: program's

THESE legit corrections are WHY you thought I had "come across like you already were well on your way down that path based on your comments".

Pick one: Either my corrections and suggestions are wrong - or - they are right.
No sane person can have it both ways at the same time.
None of this "If you're a made man it's correct - but - if you're a nube it's wrong" rubbish.
That's a BS position to hold onto.


"Which basically ended up being a waste of peoples time."
Wrong.

"Barbara waves goodbye, cup of coffee in hand." is NOT clear.

"... my programs third type... " IS possessive and requires an apostrophe.

And should I state "You can probably ditch the REDNECK BOY swearing at REDNECK DAD over the ATV scene" it's just an opinion. Consider it. Creative differences. Gopherit.

And when I state to Bert "#4 - Yeah. I see the problem you've stated. Fixing one will fix the other. Got it: Make YODER a guilty older son or cousin living with the YODERs long ago that started the crop fire while illicitly smoking behind the barn."  don't come busting my b@lls with this "it felt like you didn't have the overall understanding of the medium to being making the suggestions you were."

Or when I state to Pia "Pg 4 I would exploit that "alone time" in the elevator to all sorts of suggestive, debaucherous depths mentioned above. " and she replies "Good idea!" I really don't want to hear Monday morning quarterbacking "it felt like you didn't have the overall understanding of the medium to being making the suggestions you were."

Pick one: Either my corrections and suggestions are wrong - or - they are right.

Is that your "main point"?
Did I miss something else?

Please don't offer me any more weak-tea, 500 word, say-nothing "bury the hatchet" drivel.
Don't like me. Fine.
But if I'm right - then I'm right.
I'll still read your material and likely still comment. Objectively. (Even though you're mean.) :P

Can we agree on the following terms?
If I need to correct a slug: show me. Don't gripe that it's wrong.
If I need a comma: show me. Don't gripe that it's not there.
If I need to edit or alter something: show me. Don't gripe that it sux.

Thank you.

Ray


Addendum: "Yeah", I guess I could say I'm equally frustrated with how you've stated your position. I'm sorry. I'll get over it.

Quoted from CindyLKeller I think your problem with this script is that you have too many things going on in it. Too many different stories you're trying to tell at the same time... It's all jumbled together. We're not following any ONE character. I don't think you need to show him on the mountain top or at war either. Either he or someone else could just mention it briefly, and our imagination could fill the rest in. Good luck if you do a rewrite

Howdy, Cindy

Thank you for your great trepidation at reviewing the two re-do pages and commenting on the whole.

Understood about the main character aspect.

Will try a suggestion by another character next time.

Uh... No! No rewrites.
This was a silly little experiment that has turned into a [expletive] nightmare.
I'd just as soon flame-thrower the whole thing and move right along.
I wrote a director's production script instead of a reader's script.
Any semblance of a story was strangled to death in too much "prose".
Got it.
Proper flashback format?
Got it, too.

I hope to not scorch anyones eyes with such too many more times.
My fear has now become "Too much brevity, Ray. Not enough description, Ray."

                             RAY
                   (hangs head down)
                            Ugh!


Ray

So, some strange things going on here in this thread, and while I usually prefer something a bit more substantial, here is what I got looking over your two pages -- though there is little more to do than nitpick

First, one would staple a sheet of paper onto a telephone pole.

Then you introduce 5 characters in rapid succession, though we really use only two of them.  I am assuming Don and Staff Sergeant Moon are one and the same, and if so, would encourage you to introduce him as such.

I had no problem with the flashbacks.  There are several ways to do them, but (to me) clarity is what trumps everything else, and if I am not confused, I do not give them a second thought.  I was not confused.

You seem to have an interesting enough roster of characters, but if you lack enthusiasm for them, abandoning them now is probably the right thing to do.

I did glance over the longer story.  Wordy, sure, but not egregiously so.  It kind of played out like one of those jokes where you tell a long, disconnected story that only comes together in the end as some kind of horrible pun once all the pieces are in place.

Probably works better on the page than it would on the screen.  "Chaney", for example, is never referred to by name, so few if any would make the connection.

The two pages are an improvement over the original, which is probably the main thing you were looking for, and I can confirm that.  I am sure I am not the only one curious as to what you bring to the table with your next work.