The Ghost of John by Daniel Meade (electricsatori) - Horror - WARNING: EXPLICIT CONTENT "Have you seen the Ghost of John? Long white bones with the skin all gone..." This haunting children’s song inspires a group of college students to set out into the sprawling West Virginia wilderness where John Butcher is rumored to still roam.  95 page  - pdf, format 8)

Hey Daniel.

Now, I'm not sure why but these kinds of stories seem to be super popular at the moment. A group of machete-biscuit co-eds head blithely into the wilderness to be picked off one by one. In fact, the formula is pretty standard by now and it goes something like this:

In the very first scene, a terrified person must flee an unseen monster/ghostie/cannibal redneck inbred family of dentists and is summarily snuffed > Then a car loaded with the most disparate bunch of people you'll meet outside of a bad joke (the jock; the virginal nerd; the smart, sensible girl; the consummate slut; the oaf) travel towards the site of some horrific legend + expositional banter which gives you an insight into which archetype they'll each be playing and what kind of horrible death they're "unknowingly" lining up for > The merry band then stop somewhere for supplies where the proprietor (sometimes but not always in cahoots with the bad guy) will tell them to turn around and DON'T EVER GO INTO THE WOODS! > Weirdly, the group, as a whole (bar the smart sensible girl who'll briefly bite her lip in consternation), will ignore this sage advice and blunder off to their splatterific doom coincidentally as the sun is setting behind a jagged mountain range and > We sit back and place bets on what order these chowderheads will buy the farm > Oh, and then the smart sensible girl will prevail - generally after her top comes off; staggering down the deserted road to her freedom, she'll desperately wave down the first car she sees which will be driven by - you guessed it - the bad guy's cousin/mother/rabies-addled French Poodle and this is where we dramatically cut to black and the fate of our heroine is IMPLIED (which is an odd place to start thinking about subtext; you know, at the end).

If I sound cynical, I'm really not. These kinds of romps can be fun if you're in the mood to switch your brain off. But man, if you're wading through the graveyard of a premise that's been done to death (pun intended), you really need to make it stand out. Which brings me to my point, at last: There's something so cartoonishly enjoyable about the tone of this story, it lifted it out of the potential quagmire of been-there-seen-that. And basing it around a creepy poem and an antagonist who for some reason reminds me of the London bogeymen of the Victorian Era, I think with a couple of rewrites, you could probably pick out the bones (again, pun intended) and build something pretty unique. And your writing style is solid. I mean, I wasn't once confused as to what was happening or stumble over anything and, oh man, that is so important when you have limited space to hold peoples' focus.

Now, I might be on my own here but I think we need to be careful about violence for violence's sake. If everything you put in your screenplay has meaning, then the eyeball-exploding demise of the irritating over-sexed Gridiron enthusiast needs to have meaning too. Otherwise it's just horror by rote. That scene with Nick's (I wanna say organ enema, but I shan't) death was so singularly graphic, it actually almost turned my stomach - and I can casually eat my popcorn through the worst of it. This is a partial compliment. In terms of gross-out, you succeeded admirably.

Quoted from Curskineville Then a car loaded with the most disparate bunch of people you'll meet outside of a bad joke (the jock; the virginal nerd; the smart, sensible girl; the consummate slut; the oaf)

This, for me, is probably the biggest turn off in a screenplay or movie, this list of characters.  Outside of The Breakfast Club, you would never find these people together.  Being in high school/college is all about belonging to cliques.

I seen enough scripts where these are characters, such a diverse group that should be so easy to write.  Sounds good on paper, but when you put it...well...down on paper. it falls completely flat.

You can have four or five characters that are similar in the same story.  We Are Marshall is filled with jocks.  Revenge of the Nerds is filled with nerds.  Little Women is filled with smart women.  New Wave Hookers is filled with sluts.  And Animal House is filled with oafs.  The characters in these movies are different from each other, yet they can all be categorized in these cliques.


Phil

Hey Daniel, not sure how I missed this when it was posted 3 weeks ago.

Based on the positive review here, I wanted to check it out as you've given lots of very detailed reviews in the past, and I didn't think it was right your script is sitting here with nothing.

Well...sorry, but 13 pages in is as far as I'm gonna be going.  Here's the deal...

Talk about generic, cliche ridden material, man.  Damn.  This reads, looks, and reeks of 1,000 scripts/movies in this genre.  I mean, seriously, as the above reviewer pointed out, it's literally cookie cutter stuff here...and it's not for me in any way.

It's also very long winded in the irritating back and forth dialogue between all these completely unlikable characters.  I guess every script/movie needs a period of getting to know our characters, but I can tell you that I know more than enough about these idiots already, yet the banter continues.

A few issues that can help in a rewrite...

Your SLUGS have some issues.  You've used both "VAN" and "THE VAN" - pick one and stick with it. Several of your SLUGS state either EXT or INT, yet you have action taking place in the opposite.  Doesn't make sense and is hard to follow.  If you're trying to say the camera is not where the action is taking place, I understand, but IMO, it doesn't work and is just another way of directing in your Spec script, which you don't want to do.

You've decided to use "THE" in front of some items, in both SLUGS and in action passages, which doesn't work for me at all.  If something hasn't been intro'd yet, it shouldn't be labeled as "the".

Biggest annoyance for me is the actual writing style you decided to use here.  I'm sure there will be lots who love it, feel its fresh and witty, etc, but for me, it's a huge turnoff.  Lots of goofy asides, really annoying unfilmable descriptions of your characters, yet not a single age given for anyone yet, which means with all the crap you did use, there's no way to get a visual on anyone.

I can't go on, as I know exactly where this is going.  I know the style will continue with the asides and unfilmables coming fast and furious.  And, to top it all off, I've seen this movie way too many times to want to sit through 94 pages of this.

Sorry for the harsh tone here, Daniel.  When I saw your name as the writer, I perked up and looked forward to reading, as you seem to have quite a handle on screenplays, based on your posts.  Maybe you do, but it appears to be a style that I literally cannot tolerate, and will not subject myself to.

I am interested to see what others think. I seem to stand on my own island quite a bit, so it won't surprise me if that's the case again.

Best of luck to you with this and everything else you're working on.  Take care.

Quoted from Dreamscale Biggest annoyance for me is the actual writing style you decided to use here.  I'm sure there will be lots who love it, feel its fresh and witty, etc, but for me, it's a huge turnoff....

Yep...you're right, Jeff.

Right in that I disagree, that is.

Quoted from the script, introduction for Vanessa In the back seat is VANESSA, expert hottie, slutty slut slut slut slut.

It's funny, man.  It does not waste space -- in fact, it is quite compact -- and it is effective -- now we "know" her well enough to move on.

Do you really think describing her hair and clothes would be more effective?  **yawns**

Quoted from Dreamscale I am interested to see what others think. I seem to stand on my own island quite a bit, so it won't surprise me if that's the case again.

It is called "voice", Jeff, and it is a disservice to advise authors to stifle it -- unless they have no idea what they are doing, of course -- you know the difference -- and that is not really the case here.

We will probably disagree on this forever -- that is fine -- but I feel compelled to let ol' Dan know there are two distinct camps on this issue.

Bert, I don't really want to get into something like this, but I will respond to you.

Did you read the script...or at least 13 pages of it?  If so, I'd like your commentary on what you read in terms of story, etc.

Your quote of Vanessa's description is actually a great one to discuss, IMO.  Is it funny?  Yeah, it is funny.  I think it would be even funnier if it read as, "In the back seat is VANESSA, hot as shit, and a total fucking SLUT to boot.

But, listen men, first off, this is a horror script.  IMO, horror scripts should not be funny in their tone.

Secondly, being a "hottie" has absolutely nothing to do with being a "slut", and should actually be quite offensive to both hotties and sluts around the world.

Thirdly, this is a total case of writing a description with an unfilmable aside.  I know, I know, you're going to say that based on this aside, it is easy to "see" what she's wearing and what her demeanor is.  Is it also cool to write a description like this, then?  "In the back is Butcher, MMA Heavyweight Champion, and as mean as a fucking junk yard dog."

And finally, as I said earlier, you may like this description.  You may say it's funny and has voice.  You said it is compact and effective.  So, how old is she?  How old are any of these characters?  We all know damn well that just because someone is in college doesn't mean they're 18-22 anymore.  An age of a character is very important. It's so simple to drop an age in the description.  It's very compact and extremely effective.  No reason in the world not to!

Quoted from Dreamscale Did you read the script...or at least 13 pages of it?  If so, I'd like your commentary on what you read in terms of story, etc.

Maybe skimmed that much -- some from the front-end, and some from the back-end.

I would venture to say that while this is a horror script, it is also intended to be absurd and comical.

It is intentional that these characters are stereotypes.  It is a very self-aware script -- and while that is not a new trick by any means -- the script does capture that tone and spirit well enough.

I got that vibe from the front -- and definitely from the end -- where he clearly ventures into "Evil Dead" territory.

Popped this one open and ended up reading it in one sitting.

This is a script that knows its premise, knows its audience and delivers.

Yes, the characters are cliche. Yes, the premise isn't original. But I still liked it.

I am in the group that loved the writing style. Clear. Concise. The story purrs along at a rapid pace. The style of the writing matches the style of the story. It gives it personality and when you are writing something that has been done before, it's good to have that angle. Something different. Something that can stand out amongst the throng of other horrors out there.

The dialogue, for the characters that are present, is great. The dialogue at times is funny, over-the-top and down-right offensive. Loved it. There are a couple of moments where there is exposition or some flat humour, but overall it works.

The characters, as I mentioned above, are cliched. But you play on that; in the story and in the character descriptions. I can't really argue them at all as it is clear why you created them.

Spoilers

The story is good. I'd never heard of the poem before, so it was new to me. The only slight concerns about the story is that John never really turns up until the 3rd Act, it's more of demon vs college kids movie. I also wasn't in love with your climax. You had some great sequences/scenes up until the climax and I felt a little let down by John's appearance. Especially how Andrea momentarily escapes and the whole blowing up the well that somehow unleashes a river. I can't picture how that would work with a stick of dynamite. Also, I wasn't thrilled with the last scene in the movie, but it's grown on me due to the sequal that you have seemingly planned out.

Overall, this is a tight, well written script. Good horror moments, great dialogue and good characters - although they are cliched. You embrace everything about this genre and work with it. The biggest drawback is the concept, which isn't unique and the 3rd Act which is a let down compared to your 1st/2nd Act.

It feels like a homage to movies such as Evil Dead. The horror, humour, the premise.

Good luck with this.
Stew

OK...if nothing else, at least I was successful in getting you some reads and comments, huh Daniel?

Looks like I am on my island here, and that's OK.  I like my island.  It's a cool place to hang.

Bert, I am a bit confused here still.  You obviously love the writing, story, and characters here, why wouldn't you read the script?  Why skip around and then read the end without really reading any of the script?  Doesn't make sense if you like what you see so much, does it?

Sorry for all this, Daniel.  Sometimes a little controversy helps,. though, you know?

Quoted from Dreamscale Sorry for all this, Daniel.  Sometimes a little controversy helps,. though, you know?

It got me to read it!

Quoted from Dreamscale Bert, I am a bit confused here still.  You obviously love the writing, story, and characters here, why wouldn't you read the script?  Why skip around and then read the end without really reading any of the script?  Doesn't make sense if you like what you see so much, does it?

What's your point, dude?  I am at work.  Sheesh.

My point, dude, is that whether or not you're at work, you chose to read small portions of this script, most likely based on my scathing words, and then decided to tell me you disagree with what I said.  So, if you don't have time to comment or reply, you shouldn't get started then.

Actually, though, dude (sorry, can't help myself today), my point is probably more along the lines of the fact that you wouldn't and won't read this script, based on the writing and story because there's no way you'd get through it without destroying stuff in frustration and anger, yet you choose to disagree with my opinions.

That's all.  Now go back to work, get your shit done, and enjoy a nice long 3 day weekend.

Sorry to all for being difficult and an ass.

I read only two or three pages into it, to where the Indian appears.  I put it down; it was a painful two or three pages.

What you need to do, Dan, is stop writing scripts and work on your character developing skills.


Phil

I guess I'm in the minority here.

spoilers

The characters do need fleshed out and there's hardly any character development, but most don't survive long enough to have any semblance of an arc or progression anyways.

I would agree and say that the protagonist needs to be defined better and be a stronger all round character with a clear goal and resolution; but it doesn't hinder the experience (for me) that most of the surrounding characters colorful yet a little flat in the development department.

Phil you can come hang out on my island any time you want.

MacDuff, I don't think you're in the minority...not yet, at least.  seems like it's 2-2 so far.

Let me just say again for the record.  The style chosen by Daniel, for me, is very irritating, and that's before we even get into whether or not the characters are well developed, developed at all, have arcs, or anything.  It's a personal thing for me, and that's what I was trying to state.

When it comes to "readers" or "gatekeepers" reading a script, I am 100% positive you will find more than a fe who will be very turned off by this style.  I'm also sure, others will enjoy it and find it fresh, maybe even witty.

Also!  Also!  Also!  In addition to the fact that you use all these cliched characters, you used the dreaded dinner party introductions, just listing the characters while they sat in the SUV.

My pet peeve, anyway.


Phil

I liked the part that I read. I think the title needs some work. It's obvious why you've called it that, but it's tame.

"Long White Bones" would be better. Same source, just a lot creepier and more evocative/gothic.

The reviews on here are getting a little over serious at times. The best thing about this site is the community spirit and it seems to be becoming somehow more competitive.

There are scripts that get slated that I reckon if well produced would find fans even amongst those that savage them.  

As for the whole unfilmmable thing....my favourite topic....

Leaving aside rules, right and wrong and everything else..why, oh why is it that writers seem to save so much of their best work for the stuff that won't make it to screen? This is the fundamental point that I don't get.

Since Shane Black came along this has got more and more frequent and every time it happens it seems that writers miss the opportunity to demonstrate their wit and creativity not just on the page, but on the screen as well.

I'm sorry to make an example of you here, Daniel, but maybe it will help anyway.

This line: ANDREA, in the passenger seat, head of the class, would make
love to a book if not for the paper-cuts, turns the radio
off...

Is really good.

It's a lot better (imho) than the diaolgue that follows it in the opening scene, which is largely concerned with someone's fart.

Why not include the wit in the scene?

EG

Andrea reads a book...

The Jock
You gonna read all holiday?

Vanessa
Leave her alone, I swear she'd fuck those things if she wasn't scared of the paper cuts!


Much laughter all round, there is an establishment of character and conflict early on etc and you get your fancy line on screen.

I can definitley hear where Bert is coming from with the voice thing, but why can't the voice be present on screen? Seems a shame to me that this voice that is considered so important is the thing that gets left completely out of the film.

Anyway, I can't resist these little debates.

I no longer have the time to read many features, but I definitely enjoyed the vibe of this, and I think that I'd watch it based on the hook of the little poem alone.

Rick.

Hiya Daniel,

I had the pleasure of sitting down and tearing through your script in one sitting.
Your grasp of the technical format did not hinder my reading in any way, good on you!

I have a soft squishy spot for the horror genre and this piece is no exception.
I do enjoy the "Lake Placid Syndrome", as in, everyone is a jerk deserving of a gruesome demise. =p
The tone here harkens me back a couple years to Adam Green's "Hatchet".
Its a nifty meat grinder flick that gleefully wallows in all the horror cliches.
If that's what you are going for, you sold me.

All that being said, I do have some things that rubbed me the wrong way.
Your action description is far more engaging than the actual character dialogue.
I want to see the smart ass that wrote those words show up in the story.
I feel like the heat is turned up too fast, too soon.
More exploratory build up mixed with character dialogue would be sweet before the buckets of blood.
A WHOLE lot more of John Butcher than minions in the story.
You went to the well one time too many, alter one of those sequences. =p
Overall I felt the third act was the weakest, more build up in the prior acts will help
Here's the biggest cliche I'm shocked you didn't go for...
Every Michael Myers needs his Laurie Strode!
Which one of those asshat kids is the distant relative to John Butcher?!?!?!

Congrats on banging out about 2 pages a day over 7 weeks!
I look forward to more of your work!

My apologies for my late response to the reviews posted here. My computer took a steamy dump and left me without means of an electronic life... on a positive note I've rediscovered the outdoors and remembered why I hate it.

For those of you who enjoyed this story (the few misfits bold enough to claim ownership of poor judgment and crude sensibilities), I applaud your skewed sense of morality and lack of personal hygiene, but must ask that you stop sending me amputated appendages through express mail, I have my own, thank you.

For those of you which did not like this story, for reasons which I imagine are entirely rational, sane, and justifiable to the fleshy mass of humanity - remember, "chocolate is better when shared."

-Daniel

Quoted from Curskineville There's something so cartoonishly enjoyable about the tone of this story, it lifted it out of the potential quagmire of been-there-seen-that. And basing it around a creepy poem and an antagonist who for some reason reminds me of the London bogeymen of the Victorian Era, I think with a couple of rewrites, you could probably pick out the bones (again, pun intended) and build something pretty unique.

The only bones I have left are being used to prop up my ego...

Quoted from Dreamscale I can't go on, as I know exactly where this is going...

You must go on, the anti-depressants are in the mail.

Quoted from bert We will probably disagree on this forever -- that is fine -- but I feel compelled to let ol' Dan know there are two distinct camps on this issue.

Ole' Dan appreciates your camp, but refuses to do any more of your laundry.

Quoted from MacDuff Popped this one open and ended up reading it in one sitting... ... Overall, this is a tight, well written script. Good horror moments, great dialogue and good characters - although they are cliched. You embrace everything about this genre and work with it. The biggest drawback is the concept, which isn't unique and the 3rd Act which is a let down compared to your 1st/2nd Act. Stew

My third act cried itself to sleep after reading your comments, but it felt its eventual euthanasia on the horizon anyway.

Quoted from Dreamscale Sorry for all this, Daniel.  Sometimes a little controversy helps,. though, you know?

You should know by now my skin is as thick as a nickel-plated, cadmium enforced, steel-girded double-penetrated Hollywood prostitute.

Quoted from dogglebe I read only two or three pages into it, to where the Indian appears.  I put it down; it was a painful two or three pages. What you need to do, Dan, is stop writing scripts and work on your character developing skills. Phil

Did it slap you across the face and leave a mushroom-shaped bruise? It has a habit of doing that.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films EG Andrea reads a book... The Jock You gonna read all holiday? Vanessa Leave her alone, I swear she'd fuck those things if she wasn't scared of the paper cuts! Rick.

Do you mind if I lift your dialogue and give you absolutely no credit? (I am going to do it anyway, you might as well say yes.)

Quoted from Electric Dreamer Hiya Daniel, I had the pleasure of sitting down and tearing through your script in one sitting. Your grasp of the technical format did not hinder my reading in any way, good on you! ... All that being said, I do have some things that rubbed me the wrong way. Your action description is far more engaging than the actual character dialogue. I want to see the smart ass that wrote those words show up in the story. I feel like the heat is turned up too fast, too soon. More exploratory build up mixed with character dialogue would be sweet before the buckets of blood. A WHOLE lot more of John Butcher than minions in the story. You went to the well one time too many, alter one of those sequences. =p Overall I felt the third act was the weakest, more build up in the prior acts will help Here's the biggest cliche I'm shocked you didn't go for... Every Michael Myers needs his Laurie Strode! Which one of those asshat kids is the distant relative to John Butcher?!?!?! Congrats on banging out about 2 pages a day over 7 weeks! I look forward to more of your work!

I'm sharpening my knives to slice up the third act, it shivers in the corner, whimpering for its existence...

I appreciate everybody's feedback, even those who hate my work. Thank you all for your comments and for taking the time to reflect on this little slice of my mind. Next time I'll serve a side-dish.

Sincerely,

Daniel

Quoted from electricsatori Did it slap you across the face and leave a mushroom-shaped bruise? It has a habit of doing that.

If it did, it was an extremely small one.


Phil

I didn't get past the first page, so I can't comment on the story or characters. I can, however, comment on the first page.

EXT. FOREST - DAY
A thick forest.

Why is this here? Put it in the slug line.

Sunlight flickers through the dense foliage.

Why is the sun flickering? Sunlight would flicker between the trees with a moving POV, but you haven't written that.

It does not reach the ground.

No sunlight reaches the ground? Are we in darkness? How high is the camera that it can see the sunlight flickering?

Frantic footsteps.

You've put this here, as part of the setting. Is that intentional? It reads like the footsteps began with the scene. Are footsteps on a forest floor really distinguishable?

GHOSTLY VOICES (V.O.)
Have you seen the Ghost of John?

Can the voices be heard in the scene (ie, diegetic)? If so, it's O.S., not V.O. And why is "ghost" capitalized?

A LAND SURVEYOR bursts through the bushes. He drops his clipboard, but manages to keep his helmet.

How does the audience know he's a land surveyor? Does it say "land surveyor" on the screen when he appears? The audience never sees him doing anything but fleeing. He's a guy with a clipboard and a helmet (did you mean "hardhat"?). He drops the clipboard from his hand "but manages to keep his helmet." Is he also holding the helmet in his hand?

How can there be bushes if the foliage is so dense that no light reaches the ground?

He trips over a rock and tumbles to his knees. He looks back into the woods. Twigs SNAP and CRUNCH.

He looks back and sees twigs snapping and crunching?

GHOSTLY VOICES (V.O.)
Long white bones with the skin all gone.

He gets up and flees.

EXT. THE CABIN - DAY
He bursts through the woods.

He bursts "through" the woods? Is he strapped to a rocket?

His truck idles behind the cabin. He runs towards it.

Wait, are we in front of the cabin, or behind it? Can we see the truck? How do we know it's his truck? It seems like he came to some random cabin. It's also slightly unclear whether "it" is the cabin or the truck.

GHOSTLY VOICES (V.O.)
Ooh, oh, oh, ooh, oh, oh, ooh.

Are the ghosts...singing? In my head I heard "juicy" after reading this line. I think ghostly chanting or moaning could work, but I don't think you've conveyed it effectively.

He reaches for the handle.

How far is he from the truck? As far as we've been told, he's still running toward it.

A hand darts out from beneath the truck.

What kind of hand? A child's? A big man's? What does the hand do? As you've written it, it darts out then just hangs there, motionless. Does it grab at him? Drum its fingers?

He stumbles backwards onto the ground.

Wasn't he on the ground already? Or do you mean he falls?

A WHITE FACE disappears behind one of the tires.

I missed the part where the face appeared. Has it been visible the whole time? What does "white" mean? Pale? Painted white? If this is same entity that owns the hand, why was the hand not described as white?

Which tire? That may seem trivial, but you want to play the movie in the reader's mind. You need details like that.

Does the man see the face?

GHOSTLY VOICES (V.O.)
Wouldn’t it be chilly with no skin on?

He scrambles to his feet and runs towards the cabin.

Why is running away from an unlocked, idling vehicle? Even if there's something under it, it's obviously his best means of escape.

INT. THE CABIN - DAY

That should be "INT. THE CABIN - DAY - CONTINUOUS."

He bursts through the door and slams it shut.

This guy does a lot of bursting, huh? That's the third time on one page.

Sweat drips down his cheeks. His breath is ragged, teetering on hysteria.

His breath is teetering on hysteria?

He peers out the broken window. Behind him, the shadows in the room thicken. They creep towards him.

What broken window? Was it right in front of his face when he bursted in?

I agree with everything Atlas covered, though he made it further than I did. Shouldn't the 'ghost' have some (CONT'D) by his dialogue?

I have actually heard of this ghost before, rhyme and all. Might want to clarify a lot of the first scene, it didn't grab me as much as I hoped it would.

Good concept, original ghost idea. Best of luck to you.

I'll give this a read. I must say though both Atlas and adam.baker84 seem to be extreamly lazy if all they want to do is bash a script based on less than one page. I am new here and am still quietly learning. I don't pretent to know anything about writing scripts...Yet.

But to give such harsh back handed comments without reading any of the script what so ever strikes me as lazy and arragant.

Like I said though. I am new here.

I'm on page 36 and as promiced, I will respond.

I supposed I am at a disadvantage here. I dont go to movie often at all. I have read things from other posters that refer to this being done before and that may well be.
I, myself find the writing witty and campy. I doid see a movie a hundred years ago called Friday the 13th. at the drive in. That must date me. This has the same taste to it as that film.

Gore and slash mixed with stumbling bad luck. A good combination I think. Whether it's been done "to death" I will leave to the experts here.

So far though, I am enjoying it. Thanks for the chance to allow me to read it.