Something I've been on the fence about for some time: is it better to write something after sufficient but moderate planning when the idea's still fresh, exciting and inspiring or to hold off a while and really perfect the story?

I think based on the way I've phrased this, people are going to have a knee-jerk reaction to say the latter. But to me, it's a catch 22.

Naturally, rushing into a project has its share of issues. I think the worst is completing a script and finding something is fundamentally wrong with it, resulting in one having to rewrite a major portion from scratch. This happened to me with my script, Complete, in which I ended up rewriting forty pages (by this, I mean chucking the original forty pages completely and inserting completely new content).

Still, writing the script was both easy and fun but more importantly quick and consistent. I wrote it in three weeks without stopping and what it's become is, frankly, one of my most solid scripts thus far. This was after three months or so of outlining.

On the other hand, if too much time goes by planning a script, you can lose interest. I subscribe to the notion that if you start writing anything, you should finish it no matter what. But that's not as easy as it sounds. My script Night Shift and my most recent Love You To Death were both works in progress for two years before they were actually written. The outlines were packed with notes and details but writing them was agony. It's a miracle either got finished. I considered chucking them both numerous times. At other times, I got really lazy, wrote scenes completely half-assed (sometimes without any action lines) and inserted notes on what to add or change later on, rather than actually taking the time to do it on the spot.

But when the rough drafts were finished, as awful as they were, all that was needed to make them better was there and once again, both turned out to be among my best scripts.

Not trying to toot my own horn, BTW. I've written a ton of junk. I'm just trying to make a case for both sides and I'm not afraid to say that I'm proud of my work.

Anyway, I used to write scripts without any notes or outlines whatsoever. I even wrote my first few without any idea where the stories would go. Needless to say, they were crap. With Love You To Death, I took my basic treatment as well as all my notes and combined them into a much beefier treatment. A first for me, which I'm already applying to my next feature. So I suppose I'm leaning toward spending more time on scripts at this point.

Nevertheless, I don't think writing should be a painful process. I also don't think just because you've got every single detail down on paper means you'll write a good screenplay. Your base ideas could still be flawed or misplaced from the getgo. I think that takes a year or two to figure out. Everyone thinks their latest script is the best when they write it but you can't really make that call until you've distanced yourself from it, somewhat. So there's pros and cons to be found in both approaches.

So for myself as well as a means to spark a healthy dose of discussion, I ask how much time should one spend planning a writing project before they actually start writing it? How does one find a happy balance between excitement and preparedness? Can one find a happy balance? Is one path really better than the other?

Hope this gets the ball rolling...

The best way to write a script is to provide yourself with road posts usually in the form of index cards.  Don't put too much on the index card, just a short line about what happens and the characters and setting.  Don't be overly verbose but do this scene by scene.   You should have around sixty of them when you are done.

At that point you should figure out if there are any order changes and cull the scenes you don't need.

Then start with the first card and write the actual scene, next card, next card...  If you feel you need to diverge from the direction of the road posts then do so.  If it's a dead end turn around and come back to the road.  Flip over cards until you finish.

The first script I wrote was doomed to failure. Not only did I know very little on formatting, but I didn't do an outline of the story I wanted to tell. I knew in my head but when I committed it to paper it became a mess. Worse still, when someone pointed out that the story wasn't working I rewrote the entire thing from scratch, still unaware that an outline was critical to the whole proccess. I second what mcornetto says. Cue cards or sticky notes are great. You can physically manipulate the whole story and move it around. I use a small magic board that  put all my notes on.

I have somewhere in the region of 432 million screenplays on my hard drive, none of which have ever gone past page 11 that is  proof to me that no planning = no writing. Even though I am with you on the "wow great idea, I'm so excited I am starting writing now" I always wake up the next day realising my idea is crap.

John August is funny in that he does not appear to enjoy writing much, he certainly calls it a job rather than something fun, especially when the initial excitement is gone and there are 5 drafts to go. I only mention him because he has loads of advice on this sort of thing on his blog and he is a big planner, he always writes a compete run down of his story before writing a script, an then he writes the first draft by hand on a notebook!

I have vowed that I am not going to write anything again until I have the whole thing planned and sketched out, and yes index cards are good for this. I have an index card app for my iPad which is a brilliant way of keeping them all organised. Probably better to find out now that your script sucks ass than spend 3 months writing a script that sucks ass.

  

I might give notecards a try. I have a notebook but I don't use it too often. It has come in helpful at times though. I have a slight aversion to the more tactile elements of writing. The power is in the words rather than the materials (the words are the materials), as opposed to art, music or filmmaking (for this reason, I don't buy writers who think they're holier than thou because they don't use laptops or whatever). I've mentioned before something along the lines that writing longhand feels trudging through a mental bog. My hands simply can't keep up with my thoughts. Notecards don't seem as scary though and I like the idea of being able to take scenes apart and move them around.

BTW, I never meant to imply, at any point, that one should try to write anything cold or that it's something worth discussing. I more so wanted to compare slapping a basic outline together within a short period of time vs. spending months drafting treatments. Both my scenarios involved outlining of some kind. Writing cold is something I haven't done, honestly, since around the time when my writing actually started to get good, haha.

The most useful thing I took from Save the Cat!, something that I've adopted straight away, is the concept of 'The Board'. It's a good technique, and one I'd encourage people to at least try. Please note, I'm making assumptions about people's acceptance of the three-act structure of screenplays, but let's not go off in that tangent.

In Snyder's own words:

"The Board is a way for you to 'see' your movie before you start writing. It is a way to easily test different scenes, story arcs, ideas, bits of dialogue and story rhythms, and decide whether they work - or if they just plain suck. And though it is not really writing, and though your perfect plan may be totally abandoned in the white heat of actually executing your screenplay, it is on The Board where you can work out the kinks of your story before you start. It is your way to visualise a well-plotted movie, the one tool I know of that can help you build the perfect beast."

That's a pretty succinct summary. The basic concept goes like this:

- Buy a cork noticeboard. Hang it on the wall (I have mine directly above my desk).

- Take three long strips of masking tape OR a permanent marker and divide the board into four equal strips. (I actually have five strips, with an extra one at the top for working out what my title and logline is going to be, but that's my own addition to Snyder's technique).

- These strips are for Act One, the first half of Act Two, the second half of Act Two, and Act Three. As Snyder says, "the ends of each row are the hinges of your story. The Break into Two, the midpoint, and the Break into Three". I recommend filling these gaps first, so you have your 'big moments', and probably filling in the catalyst as well.

- Construct your acts using index cards. The basic idea is to have scenes, or at least outlines of scenes, but I chuck on bits of dialogue, character details, ideas for specific moments...just build up what your script is going to look like. Keep going 'til you have a good idea of how everything is going to hang together.

- THERE WILL BE GAPS. Either try to fill these, or accept them and hope that inspiration will come once you actually start writing.

- Don't obsess over making The Board look perfect, but once you think you know your script, then you're ready to start writing. Feel free to move stuff around, add stuff, take stuff out - after all, they're just index cards. And then, when you know you've carved out the path you're going to walk on, go for it.

I'm using this technique for the feature I'm currently working on, and I'm a few days away from actually starting the writing process. I'm really glad I didn't just start typing and hope for the best, because when I started filling out The Board I realised that I had literally no idea what was going to happen in Act Two, particularly after the midpoint. That's why people - or at least I - abandon scripts, because they suddenly find themselves in open water, and just climb out onto the boat rather than thrash around searching for a current.

Your script doesn't have to end up looking exactly like what you've got on The Board, but I really do think it's a great technique. It's very interactive - it's far more fun using index cards and different coloured pens and push pins than just typing stuff out on the keyboard (it also differentiates it from the actual writing process, which I like). It's very visual - you get to see your script build and evolve before your eyes. And also, it's a good way to keep the project on your mind. As I said, my Board hangs above my desk. So even when I'm not working on my script, it's there, just above my field of vision. It's rattling round and developing in my subconscious. So when I decide it's time to crack on with it, I don't have to physically open up a file on my laptop. I just look up, and I'm in.

So yeah. The Board. I reccommend giving it a try.

Usually, I let a story roll around in my head for a few months before I start writing it.  I didn't do so with the last script I posted, Frankincense, and it was a pain in the ass to write.  I wasn't sure where I was going with it and the characters wanted to do their own things.

As I write one script now, my brain is playing with ideas for the next two scripts I'll be working on.  I usually don't write things down but I do develop stories pretty well this way.


Phil

Don't think "The Board" would work for me. It'd be an absolute mess. I generally do follow the three-act structure but that's about the extent of my organization. My timelines, profiles, notes, etc. tend to have a chaos to them that only I can understand. Writing the actual script has, up until now, been the filtration of that chaos for me; after my last script, I've opted to take that step before I start to write.

I write down nearly all my initial ideas for a script until I'm able to build something out of them. It's the same as editing a film. You shoot all you can then cherry pick the best stuff from the footage. It seems like with "The Board," you'd have to be much more meticulous right off the bat.

I also write down a lot of notes about more subjective content such as themes, characters' thoughts, meanings of scenes; stuff that never makes it onscreen. Seems like things that would muddle a board of post-its.

In a perfect world, I believe a great script can be conceived and written in 2-4 months.

By "perfect world", I mean one in which you have all the time you want to plan and then write.  Also, one in which your mind is free to wander, not bogged down by life's shit.

Everyone has a different life going on and that makes the writing process second, third, and further down the totem pole in importance.  If you can make writing a high priority, there's really no reason you can't come up with your subject/story/plot in a couple of weeks...and I'm talking about details..details that make sense and are grounded in reality.

I'm a planner, personally.  But I don't outlines, don't use note cards, etc.  I plan things out in my head and I do it until it's ingrained so deeply that it's almost like a recent memory.  If I couldn't do this, I'd use some other form to keep things clear for me.

I also do alot of research for scripts...locales, names, anything I don't know or am not familiar with.  This takes time, but it also allows time to think about the subject at hand.

For me, the story always changes as the writing process proceeds.  Things that seemed like great ideas are usually replaced with better ideas...well, at least to me, they're better ideas.   ;D ;D

This last 7WC taught me alot about writing. It also taught me alot about myself.  Schedules are made for a reason.  That reason is to be met.  If I was lazy 1 day or week, then I knew I had to kick ass the next day or week.  Everything averages out, in terms of time, and time never changes.  It keeps ticking.  It just comes down to exactly what you do with that time.

For me personally, I'd say my best writing occurs when I don't write an actual single word.  By the time I sit down to write a scene, I already have it down in my head, pretty much exactly as it turns out.

Everyone is different though, and that's the beauty of it all.

The last couple of features, I've used a scene outline.

Write down the slugs of your first, maybe, ten scenes that you have in your head. Then do a couple of lines describing what happens.

I'm in the same boat as the OP.

I have noticed that the more time I spend brainstorming, going through the story plot, talking to characters and trying to make sense of it all, the easier it is to write.

I started the current project I'm working on by just sitting down and writing the actual screenplay. I spent about 5 hours a day (6 days a week) for about a month writing the first three scenes, but then I hit the fourth scene and realized that the first three will never work. Then I asked myself honestly what the story was about and couldn't answer the question without getting a headache :).

6 months later, after literally getting to know every single aspect of the world and characters I'm trying to create, I still don't always have great ideas and solutions but I instinctively know the inner workings of any given character. I still have to create and compose the drama and conflict, but the dimensionality of the characters themselves has been pretty much established. For what it's worth, it's a solid foundation.

I'm currently working on the story outline itself. This takes just as much effort as understanding the characters, if not more. It's a tedious but interesting process because it drastically changes and evolves from an abstract idea (which is usually based on movies, books you've experience before) to something really unique.

When the story itself is completely understood in my mind I will sit down and put it into screenplay format. The biggest problem of writing with little planning done ahead of time is that regardless of whether or not I have a solid understanding of my story, I still spend SOOOO much time looking for the right word and trying to write interesting, readable and palatable dialogue. Add plot holes, poorly thought out characters and inconsistencies into the mix and you won't make it past page 1.

I say take your time planning it out. Get to know everything about every aspect of your story, down to the fine details which may or may not make their way into the final script.

Quoted from James McClung Something I've been on the fence about for some time: is it better to write something after sufficient but moderate planning when the idea's still fresh, exciting and inspiring or to hold off a while and really perfect the story?

With structure in mind, you plot it out and then fill in the gaps with those fresh ideas and then carry on filling in the gaps. If you wait until you have the "perfect" story, you'll never get anywhere - it's one of the major blocks. Inspiration comes when you have problems to solve.

Planning is important, believe me... But always have another one ready to go.  The reason why I say this is because I've written tons of scripts over the 9 years I've been doing it.  I mean, TONS!  

Last count was 127 in total... These are shorts (10 to 60 pages) to a handful of features (90 to 154 pages).  And the one thing I've learned is no matter how much you plan, say 10 pages a week, it will always change.  Always.  So the story can move at a brisk pace for 20 or 30 min, then you get caught up, usually in the middle because everyone struggles to keep quality and content flowing, then you put it off for a week... Then your 10 pages becomes 5 pages and 5 pages become 3 pages and so forth and so on.

So plan... Just plan a back-up plan while you're at it.

Quoted from James McClung Something I've been on the fence about for some time: is it better to write something after sufficient but moderate drinking?

Oh yeah...


Phil

I tend to let things roll around in my head for a while.
I do my best brainstorming on my morning walks.
I crank the tunes on the iPhone and let my brain rip.
The first stage usually involves taking scattered notes with the phone app.
After that, it matures and ages and typically more notes get added.
If it still doesn't sound like crap, I'll dedicate time to a treatment.
Walking my neighborhood at dawn immersed in movie scores has been very helpful.

E.D.

Quoted from Dreamscale In a perfect world, I believe a great script can be conceived and written in 2-4 months. By "perfect world", I mean one in which you have all the time you want to plan and then write.  Also, one in which your mind is free to wander, not bogged down by life's shit. Everyone has a different life going on and that makes the writing process second, third, and further down the totem pole in importance.  If you can make writing a high priority, there's really no reason you can't come up with your subject/story/plot in a couple of weeks...and I'm talking about details..details that make sense and are grounded in reality. I'm a planner, personally.  But I don't outlines, don't use note cards, etc.  I plan things out in my head and I do it until it's ingrained so deeply that it's almost like a recent memory.  If I couldn't do this, I'd use some other form to keep things clear for me. I also do alot of research for scripts...locales, names, anything I don't know or am not familiar with.  This takes time, but it also allows time to think about the subject at hand. For me, the story always changes as the writing process proceeds.  Things that seemed like great ideas are usually replaced with better ideas...well, at least to me, they're better ideas.   ;D ;D This last 7WC taught me alot about writing. It also taught me alot about myself.  Schedules are made for a reason.  That reason is to be met.  If I was lazy 1 day or week, then I knew I had to kick ass the next day or week.  Everything averages out, in terms of time, and time never changes.  It keeps ticking.  It just comes down to exactly what you do with that time. For me personally, I'd say my best writing occurs when I don't write an actual single word.  By the time I sit down to write a scene, I already have it down in my head, pretty much exactly as it turns out. Everyone is different though, and that's the beauty of it all.

Jeff, when I read your post, I thought, I agree with the sentiment behind those words.

However a persona manages to plan, I think one needs to learn to carry the characters with them. By learning how to do this, you are able to sit down and write when you're at the computer or with a notebook or whatever. I think a lot of writing actually happens when you're not actually writing if that makes any sense. There's a lot to be said about those periods when the mind is working in a subtle fashion.

With that said, all of the other technical elements that can be ascribed to story can be learned and implemented after time. It's like playing guitar. You don't think, put this finger here and the other one there and this is a "d" note and this is a "c". You just learn the feel of it and after that, you're just playing.

Most important is to enjoy the music. Otherwise, it doesn't matter a hoot.

Sandra

Quoted from Dreamscale I also do alot of research for scripts...locales, names, anything I don't know or am not familiar with.  This takes time, but it also allows time to think about the subject at hand.

I was actually thinking about your post the other day while working on my current project, I found myself describing a real location I had been to for one scene.

While much of your post was very good I actually wholeheartedly disagree with this part. I personally think research like this, and using real locations in a screenplay is probably very detrimental to your script. If you have a scene in a forest then just describe it as a forest, it does not need to be Big Red State Park, or a Generic Theme Park instead of Disneyworld.

The chances are highly unlikely that a thriller set in Fiji is ever going to be filmed in Fiji, it is going to be mixture of the Universal Studio's backlot and a location that looks like Fiji but where the exchange rate is good or the Government give tax credits for productions or something else similar. Making your locations real and important to the story is going to seriously hamper your chances of it ever being made, even if the production company get to Fiji who says they will get permission to film in that location?

Personally I think screenwriting is something that does not require much research at all, that is what our imaginations are for. We are supposed to dream up new worlds and make them feel real, not just use the real world. (obviously biopics and true life drama excepted). Research is useful for characters, or certain professions for example. i.e. If you are writing about a Nuclear Scientist then it would be good to have at least a passing knowledge of what one is and how they talk. But locations should always be generic I think.

As a screenwriter I find myself doing and partaking in things I don't necessarily like just to have the experience and or to verse myself in it.  It's these cultural experiences that help build your creative background.

Stay at home doing nothing but play video games, watching movies and playing farmvile while updating status' usually nets you a seat at the local library needing to brush up on day to day life.

Experience is key to freeing up and defragging clutter from your mind.

Quoted from Murphy While much of your post was very good I actually wholeheartedly disagree with this part. I personally think research like this, and using real locations in a screenplay is probably very detrimental to your script. If you have a scene in a forest then just describe it as a forest, it does not need to be Big Red State Park, or a Generic Theme Park instead of Disneyworld.

No. No. No-no-no- NO NO NO! While you may be correct in many instances where it doesn't matter a hoot, in other cases it matters and it darn well better be written in correctly.

If, for example, we're talking about historical fiction, where an account of setting is precise and important, it had better, as Jeff has said, be researched properly and not be lazy writing. And! A forest isn't just a forest. A forest in Canada and a forest in Virginia and a forest in the Amazon are different.

Sandra

Research is important for a number of reasons. Of course, authenticity is one of them and shouldn't be disregarded. You can't treat your audience like they don't know any better. A lot of people can feel when something rings false, even if they don't consciously recognize it.

But for me, research is more of a matter of getting new ideas. You never know what you might find or what other areas it'll take you. What you take from research makes your world richer and your story more dense. A lot of that comes from authenticity but I think it's more important to apply your research from a creative standpoint rather than just trying to be a stickler to facts.

I hope that makes sense.

In any case, I totally regret making this thread. A lot of the responses pertain to how to plan or why planning's important in general. Obviously, it's important. It's critical. Not what I was looking for, frankly. My initial inquiry pertains to the extent of planning, not planning in general. Is it possible to over-plan? How can one plan in detail without getting jaded?

Or...

Quoted from Electric Dreamer I tend to let things roll around in my head for a while.

What's "a while?"

Not to say people haven't addressed these issues in their responses but more than a few haven't. Think something's gotten lost in translation from my initial post. I'd hate to think I've been completely misunderstood.

Yeah, Murph's comments about not needing to do research is quite shocking.  It's downright lazy and that's pretty much the mindset of screenwriters nowadays.  Basically, it's most likely the reason we get all the crap we get in the multiplexes worldwide.

For some reason, everyone has this idea that Producers or whoever will completely change the writer's initial script into what they want it to be...or think it should be, film it wherever it's cheapest and best for them, and get experts to research all the details (or just not give a fuck about details at all).

Is there any truth to this?  Yeah, there may be, but that doesn't mean that we should just give in to it and resign ourselves to try and clone whatever is the new popular trend of the week.

It makes me sick, actually.  It's a fucking joke, and it's extended itself throughout everything, everywhere.  And all the little lambs just waddle along and eat it up as gospel.

Not me, man.  No way.  2 + 2 will always equal 4.  The local restaurant that's been in business for 30 years knows how to make a mean steak.  You can't go wrong hanging out or dining in Caesar's Palace, when in Vegas.  And Disney World still rocks.

Some things are just right.  They just work, and they always will. Passing fads are just that...they pass. They're hot now, and gone tomorrow.

Good, solid writing is no different.  There are sound fundamentals that should always be adhered to.

Old school, Baby...old school!

Quoted from Dreamscale Not me, man.  No way.  2 + 2 will always equal 4.  The local restaurant that's been in business for 30 years knows how to make a mean steak.  You can't go wrong hanging out or dining in Caesar's Palace, when in Vegas.  And Disney World still rocks.

You know that in the screenplay for 'The Hangover' they were staying in Caesars Palace? In the movie they were in Planet Hollywood.

Quoted Text For some reason, everyone has this idea that Producers or whoever will completely change the writer's initial script into what they want it to be...or think it should be, film it wherever it's cheapest and best for them, and get experts to research all the details (or just not give a fuck about details at all).

This is true. 100% true. Even the best writers in Hollywood get kicked off projects and re-written by someone else. A writer loses all control over a script as soon as it is sold. Back when Hollywood were deciding how the movie business was going to work the writers guild effectively gave away any creative control in return for money. Thus the director and the studio got full creative control and the writer got none. Get used to that idea.

Quoted Text Yeah, Murph's comments about not needing to do research is quite shocking.  It's downright lazy and that's pretty much the mindset of screenwriters nowadays.  Basically, it's most likely the reason we get all the crap we get in the multiplexes worldwide.

Behave yourself Jeff, I never actually said nobody should do research. I just said using real locations, unless they are needed in the script, is a bad idea. It is the same thing as using real songs, casting real actors etc.. It is something you have no control over whatsoever in the finished film. It is someone elses job to decide where your script will be filmed and to scout for locations. It could seriously hamper your chances of being filmed if your script relies on a set-piece that takes place in a location that the producers do not have the budget or the permission to film there. This just makes sense, no? Unless there is a real reason for it to be in a particular location then why not just invent a generic location for it to be set and make it easier?

Writing is all about imagination, it is your job to dream up a world in which your story takes place. It is not lazy! How can it be lazy to use your imagination? Using real place you have been to is actually easier.

It is not the reason why the cinemas are full of crap either, that is just a ridiculous thing to say. The reason the cinemas are full of crap is because morons keep queuing up to watch crap.

Murph, as usual, you're missing the point, as many have already mentioned.

It doesn't matter who has control of a script or movie.  It doesn't matter what the budget is or where the actual filming takes place.

It's about dong the best job you can do up front.  It's about taking pride in what you do.

If you're writing a vampire script that has an intro in Eastern Europe in the 15th Century, you need to know a little bit about the landscape and goings on back then, over there.

If you're writing a script that has a central character who is a cowboy from Montana, then you need to know a little about cowboys and Montana.

If you're writing a script that involves alot of gunplay, you better know a bit about guns, ammo, and the like.

You don't get that?  C'mon man!!!!

Quoted from James McClung I hope that makes sense. In any case, I totally regret making this thread. A lot of the responses pertain to how to plan or why planning's important in general. Obviously, it's important. It's critical. Not what I was looking for, frankly. My initial inquiry pertains to the extent of planning, not planning in general. Is it possible to over-plan? How can one plan in detail without getting jaded? Or... What's "a while?" Not to say people haven't addressed these issues in their responses but more than a few haven't. Think something's gotten lost in translation from my initial post. I'd hate to think I've been completely misunderstood.

James,

I think it certainly is possible to over plan. For every feature idea I have started I have a complete beat sheet broken down into sequences, it details all the plot points, act turns etc.. So before I start writing I have a good idea of how the story is going to go. This is fairly normal I would think, solid planning before starting writing, much the same as people have mentioned here already.

My biggest problem is that I think I over plan, I let the idea stay there in my head, I try to formulate characters and ideas to the point that my story starts to fall apart. I get doubts, start to see plot holes that are not really there. In the end I end up shelving my project, often after 20 pages or more, with the idea of returning to it at a later date. This is not good.

Then I go and see a crap film and realise there is nothing wrong with my ideas, I just need to get one of them written. So yes, planning is certainly necessary but it can also be bad.

How long? I don't know. I think once you have got at least a start, middle and an end figured out then maybe it is time to start writing before you get too bored of the idea. Many of my ideas feel great when fresh but often only have a three day shelf life. If it is still a good idea on day 4 then maybe it is time to start writing.

I hope this is at least more on the topic you had in mind?

Dunno, I did many years of research for Coffin Canyon now.  I'm still learning things about the Union Pacific, the Paiute Indians and the Union Soldiers that governed many projects set forth by the government back in them days.  Without research, and just relying on my general knowledge of American History afforded to me by the most worthless High school ever, I don't think it'd have turned out well.

With Jeffery on this one.

Of course the only location that isn't made up in my script is Utah itself... Everything else is created and fictional as far as locations go.  There is much truth to the actual war between the Union and Paiute, though.  The whole script is based on, we'll say, "Loose" American History.  Fabricated to make it more interesting... Oh, and the zombies.  Can't forget them.

You're both right.

If you want to write about topics that require specialist knowledge, you should put in the research. If you're writing a period script and you have anachronisms galore, it'll scupper the feel. If you're writing about a location, if you get details wrong people will know. But then Murphy is also completely right - the more requirements you add to your script, the more you construct intricate scenes that HAVE to be shot in a specific place to work, the more difficult your script becomes to actually produce, and so the harder it'll be to sell.

Isn't this thread supposed to be about how long you spend structuring a script before you actually start writing, anyway? At least keep the arguments on topic!

Quoted from Dreamscale Murph, as usual, you're missing the point, as many have already mentioned. It doesn't matter who has control of a script or movie.  It doesn't matter what the budget is or where the actual filming takes place. It's about dong the best job you can do up front.  It's about taking pride in what you do. If you're writing a vampire script that has an intro in Eastern Europe in the 15th Century, you need to know a little bit about the landscape and goings on back then, over there. If you're writing a script that has a central character who is a cowboy from Montana, then you need to know a little about cowboys and Montana. If you're writing a script that involves alot of gunplay, you better know a bit about guns, ammo, and the like. You don't get that?  C'mon man!!!!

Read my first post Jeff you idiot.

I said, quite clearly, that if there is a reason to use a location then yes of course it should be used, and research is needed if you are using real scenarios, people etc..

I said that.

I really did.

Go look at read.

You do this lots, you are putting words in my mouth and then arguing with them.

I was only talking about your ideas about researching locations that are NOT needed. i.e. in your memory script, using the actual caves you remember, using real locations. It just seems out of place. I never read scripts that go into that much detail about a location, even specifying what caves it should take place in. It is not good creative writing, it would only be good if you were writing a guidebook. It is not creative because you are not actually creating anything.

Cowboys in Montana is something completely different, there is a historical reason why you should know what a cowboy looks like. But even then you are not going to specify which canyon the cowboy gets shot in because your film is never going to be filmed in Montana. Your canyon is probably a little ridge in the Hollywood hills.


If we disagree then fine. We are allowed too. Lets not fill another thread full of rubbish. I am done on this.

Murph, "my memory script" as you put it, is much like what Balt just posted...it's a real place, but all the details are fabricated for the script.

The details seem real, because I put time into research, as well as creating the world in my mind.

Do Stephen King stories NEED to take place in New England?  No, they don't, but his eye for detail of the area sure makes them jump.

This actually reminds me of an OWC a few years back in which someone wrote about a festival in the US that wasn't a festival and you argued about it for days on end...and were completely wrong.

When you don't put the time in, it shows.  When you do put the time in, it also shows.  Guess it's up to you what you want to show...

Quoted from Dreamscale This actually reminds me of an OWC a few years back in which someone wrote about a festival in the US that wasn't a festival and you argued about it for days on end...and were completely wrong..

You are quite easily the biggest idiot I know Jeff.

I remember you arguing that Halloween was not a festival. It was proven to you quite clearly how wrong you were then but your pea brain cannot get to grips with the idea of what the word Festival means and how it applies. I hate nothing worse than Americans trying to teach me how to speak English. And you are so full of self delusion you still walk around with the idea you were right?

In the rest of the world a holiday is the same as your vacation.
We call our holidays "festivals".

Jesus you are a moron.

Quoted from Dreamscale Do Stephen King stories NEED to take place in New England?  No, they don't, but his eye for detail of the area sure makes them jump.

Stephen King sets his novels in Maine, not New England.

Stephen King is a novelist, not a screenwriter.

You do understand the difference don't you?

Stop the name calling fellows or I will lock the thread.

I don't believe Jeff to be a moron because he's not versed in overseas culture.  There are a great many things people from other countries say that "We" stupid American's simply don't know about or of.  

For instance, it's not uncommon for an Englander to use the word "Cunt" and often in reference to insult.  American's seldom use this term.  

A sabbatical could also be considered a Vacation/Festival but, again, American's rarely would assimilate the two.

As for King, I agree... He's not a screenwriter.  His work in this field is less than stellar.  Although, I do admire and hold him in a high regard, he is nowhere near the talent Rod Serling was.

I just don't want to see two level headed people, well Jeff isn't but still... :P I don't want to see this turn into an ugly Texting match for the next 5 or 6 pages because of someone not being up to date on their Nation to Nation lingo.

Quoted from Baltis. I don't believe Jeff to be a moron because he's not versed in overseas culture.  There are a great many things people from other countries say that "We" stupid American's simply don't know about or of.   For instance, it's not uncommon for an Englander to use the word "Cunt" and often in reference to insult.  American's seldom use this term.   A sabbatical could also be considered a Vacation/Festival but, again, American's rarely would assimilate the two. As for King, I agree... He's not a screenwriter.  His work in this field is less than stellar.  Although, I do admire and hold him in a high regard, he is nowhere near the talent Rod Serling was. I just don't want to see two level headed people, well Jeff isn't but still... :P I don't want to see this turn into an ugly Texting match for the next 5 or 6 pages because of someone not being up to date on their Nation to Nation lingo.

No, not being up to date on nation to nation lingo is not a problem. It is an opportunity to learn. Ignoring that however and calling someone out on it over a year later is just beyond all comprehension.

Quoted from James McClung But for me, research is more of a matter of getting new ideas. You never know what you might find or what other areas it'll take you. What you take from research makes your world richer and your story more dense. A lot of that comes from authenticity but I think it's more important to apply your research from a creative standpoint rather than just trying to be a stickler to facts.

James,

A word on research, it helps me find my characters more so than locations.
Are my folks a reflection of the times? Fighting against it? A victim of it? Etc.
An example, I recently completed a feature length script that's a period piece.
It takes place in late 19th century America, old west.
One of my main characters is Japanese. So I did some research into both places.
Use president names and relevant world events in dialog to immerse my reader.
Use period specific weaponry and technology just makes me a better writer.
It;s more about creating a breathing environment than mere accuracy for me.

Quoted from james My initial inquiry pertains to the extent of planning, not planning in general. Is it possible to over-plan? How can one plan in detail without getting jaded? What's "a while?"

Hmmm, a while, well, Red Sun bombed around in my head for three months.
When it wouldn't go away and demanded to be brought into the world, I obliged.
First draft, 5 weeks, 150 pages. August 2009
Second draft, 125 pages, 3 weeks. December 2009.
Third draft, 110 pages, two weeks, August 2010.
In between each draft, ideas would drift through my brain.
I would type them into my iPhone Notes app. before they would return to the ether.
When I'm ready to face off with an idea at my laptop, I review those notes.

An original romantic comedy script knocked about for three months in my brain.
It was the result of a stoned spitballing session with a roomie.
it took eight weeks to wrestle the idea into a 60 page registered treatment.
When I'm excited by the idea again, I'll return and hammer out an actual script.

I hope this helps answer your question better.

Regards,
E.D.

Quoted from Murphy No, not being up to date on nation to nation lingo is not a problem. It is an opportunity to learn. Ignoring that however and calling someone out on it over a year later is just beyond all comprehension.

Point taken, I don't know the situation and or wasn't around for it.  I'll keep out of it.

There's no name calling going on from me.  That would be Mr. Murphy, as usual.

My reference to Stephen King was about story.  You cited something about location only being important if it has to be there...whatever...it was a stupid comment, so I'm not going back to look up exact details.

My point, is that location is not a must.  It's just something that helps.  Something that shows you know what you're talking about or cared to research it, to make it seem authentic.

Generic sucks.  Always has, always will.  Details rock.

Murph, I saw something here where you were talking about how much planning you do when you write scripts.  I'm confused...have you written any scripts, other than an OWC here and there?

If the answer is no, like I'm pretty sure it is, why do you feel the need to even get involved in this conversation? Seems pretty strange to me, bud.

To try and get this thread back on topic, and for the benefit of any idiots who might not actually be reading the posts before commenting I will re-post something I said earlier and then bow out.

Quoted Text James, I think it certainly is possible to over plan. For every feature idea I have started I have a complete beat sheet broken down into sequences, it details all the plot points, act turns etc.. So before I start writing I have a good idea of how the story is going to go. This is fairly normal I would think, solid planning before starting writing, much the same as people have mentioned here already. My biggest problem is that I think I over plan, I let the idea stay there in my head, I try to formulate characters and ideas to the point that my story starts to fall apart. I get doubts, start to see plot holes that are not really there. In the end I end up shelving my project, often after 20 pages or more, with the idea of returning to it at a later date. This is not good. Then I go and see a crap film and realise there is nothing wrong with my ideas, I just need to get one of them written. So yes, planning is certainly necessary but it can also be bad. How long? I don't know. I think once you have got at least a start, middle and an end figured out then maybe it is time to start writing before you get too bored of the idea. Many of my ideas feel great when fresh but often only have a three day shelf life. If it is still a good idea on day 4 then maybe it is time to start writing. I hope this is at least more on the topic you had in mind?

As I assumed, Murph...no answer and you bow out...again.

WEAK!!!!!

I remember reading somewhere that it's a wonderful thing if you can make "location" be a character in your story. Something to think about. The difference that your location can make. And forget about budget for a moment, but putting characters next to a garbage dump, instead of some pristine landscape. When you start to do that, questions come to mind. Like if a small girl is sick in some pristine landscape and they find out she has toxic levels of aluminum in her system, then the location is obviously very important to "why" and "where" did this toxicity come from.

Likewise, if the same girl, is raised next to a garbage dump, but she's in perfect health, with an amazing immune system, it raises the questions, "Why" she has this super immune system? and "where" did she get from? Her parents? God?

So yes. Research is important. Whether you're opening up books and websites and interviewing people or just yaking on Skype half mindless. Research might only be careful consideration to the "Whys" and "Wheres" and "Hows"... It's important.

Also as a fun note:

My daughter and I once discussed the subject of "horses" in stories. Often, we just have characters tying up horses and leaving them at their post, but there's a lot to the care of horses that I don't know about and if I did, it would add a lot to any stories I might ever develop that had horses  existing in it.

Sorry I don't remember what an individual had written in once (and to a prominent author) regarding their "slip" in one of their novels regarding their write on horses, but suffice it to say, it's something that just wouldn't occur in one's mind if they hadn't known the care of horses and horses' ways in their everyday lives.

I guess we're coming around to the topic of "Write what you know". It is good advice. And better still, is "Know more". As Balt has recently said that nothing really compares to incorporating life into your work. It's all around, in newspapers, through friends and associations....

And I don't think anything can compare to doing complete and solid research on the script you're trying to write. Even if it might seem on surface as a "silly romantic comedy", often thought as perhaps weak. I believe that probably a lot of research went into these as well, but you just don't see it on surface.

I think the best works look very easy on the surface. It's genius to reduce the complicated and strip it down to its base components. After all that research...

Sandra